Swain Build Guide : Art of War, an in-depth Swain Guide (Season 7)

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Season 8 update? I would love to see your opinions since I also love playing Swain and he's my favorite.

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(13) |

and versus an ad midlaner like talon or zed what must be deffensive items?

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I love your build and I'm now using it but late game I have a huge mana regen problem. Anything you think I can substitute in the build to help with this?

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(316) |

The guide is somewhat outdated, but I think the item you're looking for is Morellonomicon. All you need is one assist and your mana goes through the roof again ;)

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Could you please do a video explaining how freeze the lane with swain?

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(316) |

I still need to update this. New Banshee's seems pretty sick.

The issue here should be Bruisers picking up the Helm. Tanks are less damaging now overall (unless they mix it up) and Swain's R ignores damage reduction for the healing. I don't think the Helm will be of any use to squishies regardless, so we'll have to see how obnoxious this item is on Juggernauts/Bruisers :/

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I have 2 question about this item:

1.- If I first use Decrepify (Q) against the enemy, and Immediately after I use Torment (E); Does Adaptive Helm block the damage of both Abilities or just Decrepify (Q)?

2.- Does Adaptive Helm have Cooldown?
I mean, I use Decrepify (Q) against the enemy, This item blocks the damage for 4 seconds, but Immediately after those 4 seconds I use Torment (E), Does Adaptive Helm block the damage of Torment (E)?

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This is hands down one of the best guides I've seen for Swain, maybe even for any champ. Dead on for every single point and the explanation of general mechanics was insightful. Thank you for taking the time.

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(316) |

I'm very thankful for your comment! There was a lot of love and work put into this guide and seeing it being appreciated is always great :)

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Hello, how can I root an enemy (with w: nevermove) inside the area of Q: Decrepify?

Could you upload a .gif or something?

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(316) |

I'm not sure I understand the question? You want to know if there's a trick to hitting W on someone who has Q on then?

I'll check if I have footage to make a gif, but there's really no trick to it, it's mostly prediction that's facilitated by the Q slow. You need to see the way they're walking, place Q accordingly to slow them and almost immediately cast W.

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I have seen several high elo players who buys the The Dark Seal & Refillable Potion in the first recall. They sell them at mid game.

What do you think about of this?

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(316) |

Personally never seen it but it makes sense. I get refillable if I have the spare gold and the Dark Seal does seem like an interesting option along with Doran's since it gives you raw mana sustain for your ult rather than focusing on regen, which shouldn't be a problem.

I'll playtest it but am glad you brought it up!

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I forgot to mention that JemKebaba (apparently #1 Swain) Always buys those items.

You can check it out
First click on "View Match" then "more details" to see the Item Purchase Order
http://www.lolking.net/replays?summonerName=JemKebaba&platform=TR1&lks=all&duration=all&champion=50&champion_rel=either&matchup1=all&matchup2=all&search=1

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Hello, what do you think about Tear of the Goddess in Swain?

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(316) |

Hey there!

is extremely hard to fit into builds. Although he can stack it at a decent speed (not amazingly fast like or ), Tear is ideally a rush first item so you can stack as fast as possible. The problem with this is that what you REALLY want to rush ASAP is (RoA), and delaying either will create many issues:

- Delaying RoA will mean you get stats later, making you less tanky. Besides, doesn't actually provide you with laning power, only with some sustain through ult upkeep. It also makes you less of a threat in lane unless you go tear - - catalyst. If you do this, you'll be less tanky due to delaying the HP from catalyst;

- Delaying Tear means you will have it stacked much later into the game. It is also still a dead item in your inventory for a while, because Swain's ult mana cost is cumulative, which means that extra mana will be melted faster. Getting more AP would make you heal more and deal more damage.

- The only possible "fix" for this would be to get Tear and rush the hextech item that builds from catalyst. My issue with this build is that Archangel will eat away at a precious item slot and you will be less tanky (not to mention that the hextech item is more expensive than RoA).

Assuming this question comes from having issues with mana on during skirmishes, my advice is to ALWAYS demand blue buffs and, if you REALLY want a mana item, you may consider getting a after , finish and then finish which, along with your passive, gives you absurd amounts of mana on kill and assist.

Do understand that morellonomicon means you'll need to forgo , making you considerably less tanky. Ideally, you should learn to manage without any mana providers asides from RoA, especially because from midgame onwards you have less issues on that department.

Finally, on a sidenote, I do get + ap support item + refillable pots on ARAM if I get . Then I follow it up with RoA and Zhonya's.

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Thanks for answer :)

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Hello, what do you think about Spell vamp quintessence in swain?

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(316) |

It's what I'm here for ;)

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(316) |

Hello! Well, I don't think it's worth it mathematically because it is reduced by the damage from R and W, and the more AP you have the more damage and healing from R you receive.

They are decent in lane because you keep casting Q to harass + farm but once out of it they lose effectiveness (Q will apply over time AND if people leave it'll stop applying, W and R apply less). Overally, they're just a decent lane gimmick but fall flat out of lane.

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Thanks for answer :D

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(1495) |

Hi, I'm gonna focus on build and just skim the appropriate parts of the guide where you talk about that. Here's my quick review:

Runes look fine. I would expect to be better against AD or low threat mids since it seems unlikely you reach the cdr cap from items. You'd have to build morello's, visage AND zhonya's in one game which seems unlikely.

I'm like 80% sure 18/0/12 is better than 18/12/0 on Swain. You're getting very little out of 12 points in cunning. Last-hitting, biscuits and dangerous game you can easily do without. Merciless is useful, but not as strong as reduced summoner cooldowns. Compare that to , and , which are all ridiculously good masteries. Runic Armor should give you almost the same value as biscuits (between base regen and the extra value from potion healing) and it scales way better.

Wouldn't be surprised if or or something is preferable to . Ignite's not bad though. You should have other options (like and maybe ) in the body of your guide at the very least.

I think you're undervaluing the ridiculousness that is . Swain's healing is super reliable now because it doesn't get mitigated by resistances, so you get a ton of value out of visage every game. Obviously you don't have to build it against a full AD team or something, but I think getting it second or third item should be pretty standard. I don't see a world where Abyssal beats it. I would maybe get Abyssal afterwards (against a ton of magic dmg) or maybe if I'm super fed and want to greed for more dmg.

I don't see a world where you get but not in a 6 item build.

I feel like you should decide whether you're incorporating into your build or not. It's not really an item that's situational in its current state. Personally I feel like it's pretty unnecessary on Swain considering how much CC he has already and how many other items are vying for that slot.

Rylai's' "passive procs on every ability."
Not really, your W root lasts longer than the 1 second slow for AoE abilities. Your Q already slows, so you're only getting a tad extra slow duration after your target leaves the area or Q expires. Basically Rylai's only works with your E and R, which means it's useful, but it certainly seems like you can get by without it to me.

I'm not saying you have to drop Rylai's, but it should be a lot clearer when and why you get it if you're going to justify it over other items.

I'm pretty confused by Morello's too. I'm not sure why it's in there but not core. It seems to me like you either get it after RoA (for mana and CDR, you don't need healing reduction much if you're always running ignite) or you decide that it's not worth the opportunity cost and you get something else instead. Maybe it could work as an aggressive opening when spirit visage or zhonya's 2nd isn't appropriate.

"Always try to finish and as your first two items."
Zhonya's is so expensive that this isn't true anymore. You don't need to build zhonya's every game, especially not that early. If you're against double AP, you're absolutely going to benefit more from a visage 2nd item and maaayyybe a late game zhonya's, but you probably don't even need it. Zhonya's is good, it's just that it only beats out other options in some situations.

Your build vs double AP could look something like this:

Or if you really want Rylai's:

I'll admit that I haven't played a ton of Swain, but I have no idea what the point is in maxing 2nd. You don't get any extra damage amp or cooldown reduction from it, so you're literally just gaining 120 base damage and making it cost more mana. I get that it's guaranteed, but at that point it's mid game and you're team fighting, not harassing. Compare that to maxing , which doubles in snare duration, almost halves the cooldown and gives you 260 base damage that applies in an AoE. That seems way more useful to me, especially mid and late game when you're team fighting and skirmishing.

That's all I got for the build. Rest of the guide looks pretty well presented and organized, so props for that.

Hope this proves useful to you!

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(624) |

wrote:

I would expect Greater Glyph of Scaling Cooldown Reduction to be better against AD or low threat mids

Agreed

wrote:

I'm like 80% sure 18/0/12 is better than 18/12/0 on Swain. You're getting very little out of 12 points in cunning.

Agreed.

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Wouldn't be surprised if Ghost or Teleport or something is preferable to Ignite.

Not sure about TP, but certainly might be worth considering. I use on most mid laners but I still feel like would be best on though.

wrote:

I think you're undervaluing the ridiculousness that is Spirit Visage.

I agree it's strong but only as a tanky option, I don't think you need to build it every single game, especially if you're ahead and can just afford to build more damage. I agree it's probably better than though.

wrote:

I don't see a world where you get Rabadon's Deathcap but not Void Staff in a 6 item build.

Agreed, but likewise I don't see a world where you get but not .

wrote:

I feel like you should decide whether you're incorporating Rylai's Crystal Scepter into your build or not. It's not really an item that's situational in its current state.

Agreed, I don't think it's worth building on . Especially after Rylai's nerfs tomorrow, whether me and Psi are right or wrong on this you should still remove it at least after tomorrow.

wrote:

I'm pretty confused by Morello's too. I'm not sure why it's in there but not core.

Agreed, I think you should never build on .

wrote:

Zhonya's is so expensive that this isn't true anymore. You don't need to build zhonya's every game, especially not that early. If you're against double AP, you're absolutely going to benefit more from a visage 2nd item and maaayyybe a late game zhonya's, but you probably don't even need it. Zhonya's is good, it's just that it only beats out other options in some situations.

I strongly disagree, I think Zhonya's is the second strongest item could build next to . I don't know why you say it's too expensive now either, it's cheaper than it used to be. Plus it's almost always built second on whether played mid or top, it just has huge synergy with him.

http://champion.gg/champion/Swain/Middle

http://champion.gg/champion/Swain/Top

http://euw.op.gg/champion/swain/statistics/mid

http://euw.op.gg/champion/swain/statistics/top

http://www.op.gg/champion/swain/statistics/top

http://www.op.gg/champion/swain/statistics/mid

wrote:

Your build vs double AP could look something like this:

I disagree, I think it should look like this.

With able to be swapped out for any situational purchases that may be necessary.

wrote:

Compare that to maxing Nevermove, which doubles in snare duration, almost halves the cooldown and gives you 260 base damage that applies in an AoE. That seems way more useful to me, especially mid and late game when you're team fighting and skirmishing.

Agreed.

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(1495) |

I agree with everything except Liandry's necessitating Deathcap. Liandry's can do fine without it as long as you have other pen. It's pretty effective on people like Zyra and Brand even though they're unlikely to get a deathcap by the time the game ends.

I like your alt build but I would put spirit visage before zhonyas assuming you're against 2-3 AP. I can accept that I've undervalued zhonyas though.

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(624) |

wrote:

I agree with everything except Liandry's necessitating Deathcap. Liandry's can do fine without it as long as you have other pen. It's pretty effective on people like Zyra and Brand even though they're unlikely to get a deathcap by the time the game ends.

I like your alt build but I would put spirit visage before zhonyas assuming you're against 2-3 AP. I can accept that I've undervalued zhonyas though.

My point rather was that Rabadon's should be prioritized over , not that you need alongside . I'm not 100% sure that that's correct, but it feels like it should be given that increases your healing and overall damage by so much, so seeing but not in a full build feels off.

Also I literally just felt inspired to play a few hours agoand played him into a x4 AP comp, and rushing after felt so underwhelming. may have been a better choice, but it just felt so weak to rush a tank item when I only had an AP item. The subsequent 2nd item Zhonya's vs x2 AP felt much better, since MR or no MR that Zhonya's active was ridiculously strong, allowing me to dodge things like ult and ult, while still doing damage and regenerating HP with ult.

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(1495) |

Yeah I definitely misunderstood what you meant, that makes more sense.

Wow, if visage 2nd was that bad then maybe Abyssal is better afterall. I still have trouble believing Zhonya's 2nd against that much magic is optimal. Third, maybe, into void and then deathcap.

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(624) |

wrote:

I still have trouble believing Zhonya's 2nd against that much magic is optimal.

I mean, take a look at this moment where my Zhonya's was on CD. did a horrible job at protecting me from the burst of E + ult. If my Zhonya's had been up, the E + ult damage wouldn't have just been mitigated, it would have been nullified. Even against magic damage, Zhonya's does work.

wrote:

Wow, if visage 2nd was that bad then maybe Abyssal is better afterall.

Yeah it just felt useless to build tanky when I didn't have enough damage to be a threat anyway. It's like rushing on an ADC, what's the point in not dying if you don't do anything when you're alive anyway?

In hindsight I would have gone either -> -> -> , or -> -> -> . Probably the latter, since even though they had 4 AP's, the enemy ADC was destroying armorless me, and Zhonya's active was sorely missed.

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(1495) |

To be fair, you took a ****load of physical damage from Illaoi and Jhin before Lux even comboed you, but I see what you mean that she still did a lot of damage through your MR.

I think your 2nd item order makes the most sense based on what I've heard so far. You guys will have test that stuff out though since I don't really play Swain.

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(316) |

This is my issue overall with Visage second even versus double AP. At that point RoA is not fully stacked and you don't have a lot of mana/ap from levels, so not only can't you stay too long in ult, but you're also dealing mediocre damage. I think it works much better as a 4th slot vs double AP.

I mean, it's subpar in all scenarios as a 3rd item: if you're fed you're setting yourself behind by not getting AP, if you're even you will not get extra damage just "random" tankyness and if you're behind it's not gonna save your *** and you'll just stand there in skirmishes and early fights.

Thanks for trying this out Vapora, I've been having awful time for league lately.

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(624) |

wrote:

I mean, it's subpar in all scenarios as a 3rd item: if you're fed you're setting yourself behind by not getting AP, if you're even you will not get extra damage just "random" tankyness and if you're behind it's not gonna save your *** and you'll just stand there in skirmishes and early fights.

For what it's worth, in the few good games I played I built third (so I had RoA and Zhonya) and it felt fine. That's not to say that it's optimal, or that other items couldn't be better, but it didn't feel bad, unlike building it second which felt awful.

And np, if I play more I'll make sure to give you some more input, but for now most of my experience is probably even more out-dated than yours. :P

Edit: Also with 's new horrible ult CD I felt like were a lot better than before, perhaps you agree?

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(316) |

Do you wanna try one or another with morello after RoA? (In case you can skip zhonya safely). I built it in three games and it felt pretty good actually, although in one of them the lack of zhonya's boned me a bit. I think the 20% CDR + mana regen synergies on-kill (and AoE passive application) make it a deceptively good utility item on him.

Scalling CDR over flat, but yes. I think it's a 50/50 between that and flat MRes, but there are more matchups you can get away with no MRes now because of how Q is much better for laning and farming in safety. I actually find it stupid they complained E made Swain not very interactive, makes him even less interactive now if you want to.

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(624) |

wrote:

Scalling CDR over flat, but yes.

Yeah that was a typo, whoops.

wrote:

Do you wanna try one or another with morello after RoA? (In case you can skip zhonya safely). I built it in three games and it felt pretty good actually, although in one of them the lack of zhonya's boned me a bit. I think the 20% CDR + mana regen synergies on-kill (and AoE passive application) make it a deceptively good utility item on him.

I'll try it next time I play him, but I just feel like it's too greedy for . I'm usually all for skipping defensive stats but not on . is one thing considering how much raw power it gives, but the main benefit of is giving CDR that you could already get to 35% through runes, , , and even an if you need one (and if it's still good).

I don't think the mana refill is necessary since he doesn't use up as much mana as old , I think if you get a refill through your passive alone that's probably enough to keep you going, and the grievous wounds passive is only situationally good, and you have for when you specifically want grievous wounds on someone. So in the end I think it mainly just boils down to the 20% CDR, but I think progressively building up to 15% CDR through is a safer/more efficient way of getting CDR, without wasting an item slot for it.

Also although glyphs might seem like a slower way of getting CDR, in Morello's place you'd be building either Zhonya's, Abyssal or SV, which give 10% and by the time you build them you'd probably already have 10% CDR from glyphs, so you end up getting ~20% CDR at around the same time.

But yeah I could be wrong. I'll try it later and tell you how it goes.

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(316) |

Thanks a lot for the review, I needed something fresh like this because most output I get was old/stale.

I agree with some points, but I really needed a great math guy regarding visage and void staff (void staff on swain specifically, versus liandry). I still think visage is over-valued on Swain except versus double AP. A few of the things you pointed out are typos and I've been mulling over the versus thing for ages now.

I'll cleanup tomorrow, but you helped clear my mind a lot!

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(1495) |

Can't say much more about Visage. I just think Swain is in the same boat as Vlad/Aatrox/Zac/Darius where he just has so much healing that visage is crazy good.

For void, don't think of it as void vs liandry's. Think of it as Void vs everything else. Liandry's actually makes it better because the pen stacks. Keep in mind Riot nerfed Last Whisper to only penetrate bonus armor because it was mandatory every game ('cause it was optimal even vs squishies). Void is like pre-nerf Last Whisper. You may not always need it early, but you need it eventually if you're playing a damage mage. If you don't build void you're basically just committing to a tank build and should get GA or something

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(316) |

I trust you on Void but I still wanna do the math on Visage. My main issue with it is that Swain scales twice with AP on his healing: the damage he deals (which scales with AP) and the healing (which also scales with AP). So, even against double AP, often it'll be better for you to buy a Zhonya's to dodge their burst or disengage lategame than keep an extra 55 MRes (and some HP and CDR) that is being pretty much ignored by their lategame mpen.

I think Visage as it is was better on the old Swain, whose heal was fixed and only increased with damage dealt.

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(624) |

wrote:

My main issue with it is that Swain scales twice with AP on his healing: the damage he deals...

's ult doesn't heal based on damage dealt anymore, only the flat healing + AP ratio. This change was made so that enemy resistances don't reduce his healing in any way.

And for example building after and would increase your ult's healing by about 9.6 HP per raven. Building instead, if we say you have 230 AP at the time (I think that's realistic?) would instead increas your ult's healing to around 14.4 HP per raven (hitting 5 champions that's a potential 24 extra HP per second over ) at rank 2, and at rank 3 would increase it to around 16.9 HP per raven (hitting 5 champions that's a potential extra 36.5 HP per second over ). And the numbers keep increasing in favour of the more AP you build throughout the course of the game.

Also, it's not just because of how much more it increases your healing over AP items that makes it so good, it's the whole stats it gives you. 's kit benefits from a mix of AP and tankiness, and helps you round out your HP + armor from and with some MR and much more HP overall when factoring the flat HP and the bonus healing. Overall it makes you much tankier, and this is usually very good on the new since he doesn't eat as much mana as before, so he doesn't have to end fights as quickly as he used to. It's much more viable for him to use a more tank-focused build.

While doesn't always have to be your 3rd item aside from boots if you don't need the MR or you don't need to build tanky, it is still a very strong addition to your overall build somewhere down the line.

wrote:

than keep an extra 55 MRes that is being pretty much ignored by their lategame mpen.

reduces 55 MR to 35.75, or 33.55 if they have too. Flat magic pen doesn't matter since it'd already be penetrating the rest of your MR, so buying still yields a +35.75 MR increase, which is far from not being worth noting.

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(316) |

Thank you Vapora, somehow I misread his ult 1000000 times the last month and I get why Visage much better now.

As for Morello, the item is actually surprisingly good on Swain, the issue is the timing. The sum of stats is incredible (mana + mana regen on kill that synergizes with passive + 100AP + 20%CDR), it's the timing/slot that becomes the real issue. I think it's a good item against a high sustain or a tanky team, where your team killing the tank will allow you a rush of mana for the rest of the fight. As for what it should replace, probably zhonya; tankier teams generally have less DPS so you can sustain much better through them, deal slightly more damage (100 AP vs 70).

Not all tankier teams though, mostly because some have huge AoE engage that you might want to dodge via Zhonya.

Agree with the Rylai's thing, just read the nerfs/review.

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(6) |

What is this "Swain" you speak of?

Also, after reading Psi's review, It gave me a craving to play , & I'm not much of a fan of Mages.

EDIT: Although I'm not much of a Fan for Mages, I would never see myself grabbing on ... It just seems like such an offset. I HAVE seen it built on him but It's never really worked out for players in the slightest... I agree with Psi when he says "Maybe as a later Item" because It really is too expensive for It's bummer stats(Since the Nerf) & It's(If not positioned correctly, you've basically just prolonged your death an extra few seconds) Active. Even with an AD Match up, I'd most Definitely build 2nd or third. The healing stats are already doubled by AP but increasing it by 20% is definitely not a bad call. Paired up with & , You'd be next to Unkillable unless they get you with /. I'll admit, seems pretty Sweet for the 15 extra AP late game but I think that this is Lane Situational. I can see being preferred Top Lane since that's where all the Obnoxious Bruisers/Tanks like to touch themselves Violently, but I'd prefer Mid lane since it's Close Quarters & you will almost always be engaging in a Fight where that Extra LS/SV would grant you some hugs & kisses.

That's just an Outsider Opinion on .(You can take my opinion for a penny if you want.)

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(316) |

Also, regarding Zhonya's, it's a matter of experience. The item is very good on Swain, but you need to know how to use it properly. Sure, it's not always failsafe, but it's pretty damn good if used properly. I do agree it's not a third item must buy always, even if it's still great versus midlane AD assassins (vs Yasuo not so much) or champs who required their ult to stick in order to kill swain specifically (fizz, lux, syndra, veigar, vel'koz, etc).

Zhonya's is great against AoE in general, really.

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(624) |

I think he and Psi have it all wrong, Zhonya's is 100% core on IMO.

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(1495) |

As a 2nd item or just some point in the build. I'm down for building it every game but I don't think it's always the greatest opener at least.

Also thinking about this makes me even less enthused about Morello's because Zhonya's is always going to compete for that slot along with other items like Visage.

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(624) |

Yeah I don't think is "bad" on ; just that unless there's ever a game mode where you get 8 item slots, it should never be built since there are always better items. Except maybe against sustain comps like and , but even then I feel like it's much more optimal for the ADC to build grievous wounds and having x2 on the same person is useless.

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(6) |

https://www.reddit.com/r/SwainMains/comments/4k7kkc/why_spirit_visage_is_always_a_better_option_than/

This is a 6 month old Link about being better on . They didn't change the numbers on healing but I'm unsure if got the work before or after so hopefully this enlightens something.

Quoting a line from the post within the Link:

"TLDR Spirit Visage makes you heal more than Abyssal Scepter regardless of whether you build AP or not, because it boosts both the base and scaling parts of Swain's healing."

EDIT: Yes, is VIABLE but you wouldn't catch me building it unless I'm getting destroyed in lane. With the less AP & High Cost, I'd rather not buy at all & grab then continue the Build Regularly. It just doesn't hit my Gamer's G-Spot the way it used to.

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(624) |

wrote:

EDIT: Yes, is VIABLE but you wouldn't catch me building it unless I'm getting destroyed in lane. With the less AP & High Cost, I'd rather not buy at all & grab then continue the Build Regularly. It just doesn't hit my Gamer's G-Spot the way it used to.

You wouldn't build it unless you're getting destroyed in lane but you'd pick up Spirit Visage every game? You speak as if Zhonya's is a defensive item and Visage is an aggressive item you build when ahead. :^)

Zhonya's is the 2nd best item could ever build and there's no reason not to build it even a single game, it's both the greatest defensive and offensive item he can buy, since buying it opens up so many aggressive moves for him. Here's some clips I took from my last game.

Reminder that these are all from a single game, not just cherry picked moments over a bunch of games where Zhonya's overperformed.

And here's a moment where Zhonya's was on CD when I went in. Think of the impact Zhonya would've had if it had been up and I'd been able to use it on Lux E + ult. As an armor item it would have protected me from more magic damage than and put together, not to mention I'd have been healing from ult + during the invulnerability.

It's a 100% must-buy in any situation. Sometimes it can be delayed, but if you're constantly purchasing it as a 5th or 6th item then you're building him very wrong, since there are no items that generally take as much priority as on except for .

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(6) |

wrote:

You wouldn't build it unless you're getting destroyed in lane but you'd pick up Spirit Visage every game? You speak as if Zhonya's is a defensive item and Visage is an aggressive item you build when ahead. :^)

You argue a fair point but firstly, I didn't say it was an Aggressive Item, I'm saying that I prefer healing Constantly while remaining Active in Team Fights, & I am saying it's a 100% Buy Item. And yes, holds the greatest Defensive Active in the Game, making this item a Mid Point between Offensive/Defensive depending on the Situation & Play Standing BUT it is not a 100% Necessary buy as you claim it to be. Technically speaking, there is no wrong way to play someone unless you are, in fact, building them COMPLETELY wrong. Just cause someone doesn't build an Item that you find more of a personal favorite in shouldn't title them as "Un-skilled". It'd be different if you built a Champion like w/ "ADC" Items but we just classify that as "Trolling".

As for what I said, takes a higher standing to me than & will remain so; Maybe replacing one of the late game items from my Original build path with it in the Mid/Late-Game stage where there will be non-stop team fights. Otherwise, I'm just going to continue Out-Sustaining these kids into the ground.

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(624) |

wrote:

And yes, holds the greatest Defensive Active in the Game, making this item a Mid Point between Offensive/Defensive depending on the Situation & Play Standing BUT it is not a 100% Necessary buy as you claim it to be.

It objectively is though, it's been his strongest item next to RoA since the beginning of time. 2nd item Zhonya is by far Swain's most frequent AND highest win rate build on NA, EUW, EUNE, Korea, Turkey, Russia, OCE, Japan, Brazil, LAS and LAN. AKA every single server that isn't China, which I can't check but I'm sure has the same result on every single one of its servers. And even the occasional top 5 win rate build on each server that doesn't build Zhonya's second still builds it third. Every single one of them. Every good top 5 win rate build builds Zhonya 2nd or 3rd, without exception. And this has been the case for every single patch ever to my knowledge.

That level of consistency just can't be argued against. Zhonya's is absolutely core on , arguably just as important as except you have to build first just to get it stacking ASAP. Sometimes it can be delayed very situationally, for or , but it's still so strong that it should be one of the first items you build. And not building it at all, even in a single game? That's like not building on because you think is more important to survive assassins. If there's any item you throw out of your build as , it's not , and if there's any item you throw out of your build as , it's neither RoA nor Zhonya's. In any situation.

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(316) |

I've done the math myself and I've since accepted Visage as a good item on Swain :P It's definitely better than Abyssal, which at best gets bought as a second anti-ap item versus heavy AP Comps.

Zhonya's is really great on him and should probably get the fourth or fifth item spot. There are many reasons for this, such as how Swain always positions closer to the enemy team and thus is often more CC'd to get hit by adc attacks and possibly bursty ults from other laners. The item is just not as good on other APCs because they should naturally not position like **** and be further away from the enemy team.

It's not a must build ALWAYS but it's still great and really important in around 70% of the games.

Thank you for your imput!

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(316) |

I'm covering things. Still want the math on Visage but I think it's extremely overrated on him. Like I say in the guide, Swain's R healing scales twice with AP (damage dealt and the healing itself), and it's great to be unkillable but you have a mana bar which depletes faster the longer you're on ult. So if you're tanking but not dealing damage you'll just run OOM eventually for nothing.

Vampirism is really meh on Swain, literally half of his abilities have reduced spell vamp and it's only 2% to start with. So if you deal 100 damage you heal by 2, but then you gotta realize your ult and W will only heal for 33% of that. You can argue it accumulates with the rest but it's really poor accumulation (like, 1000 damage is 20 HP. That's not even noticeable) whereas 15 AP from Natural talent increases all your ability damage (+ Rabadon passive + blue buff) and increases the AP effectiveness even more on the target hit, and it also increases damage and healing on R.

Art of War, an in-depth Swain Guide (Season 7)

Art of War, an in-depth Swain Guide (Season 7)

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