LF Ahri mid or lee sin jungle help!

[quote=morpheuseqeus]I play with a group and need to fill these two roles. I am looking for any help i can get a side from core build etc. i'm lvl 30 and a decent player as it is.[/quote]

[quote=Sensei Lyfur]I play a fair amount of Ahri mid, so let me see what I can do for recommendations: The key to any Ahri lane is to outfarm your opponents and combo them fast and early on (as soon as you hit level 3). Your combo should be: Charm into Orb of Deception into Fox Fire. (E-Q-W) This will burst them down really fast, so at the very least they should be heavily harassed and lose a lot of farm. Try to pick up early kills, and roam when you can: this allows you to get even more kills or assists, and when you get those, you snowball like you would not believe. Ahri actually has really great ganking potential (among AP Carries, I would but her up there with Twisted Fate and Zyra) due to her ultimate. Utilize this whenever you can. Remember that you can pretty much Spirit Rush for anything: initiating, escaping, ganking, killing weak enemies off, baiting, and so forth. Remember the slow on her Charm will let you escape sometimes, but the biggest thing I can stress with Ahri is: positioning. Position yourself so that you absolutely know that your Q will hit them twice, it's scariness comes in the true damage from its second pass. Her W and E also rely heavily on good positioning to be effective. Remember that you're very squishy and that you really have to target a single champion to very effective. Hope this helps! I don't really play that much Lee Sin jungle, but if you want I'd be happy to offer a little advice.[/quote]

[quote=morpheuseqeus]Thats great stuff. thank you for responding here! i just played one after reading this and went 8/0/3. I made a big attempt to roam when enemy mid went b. Sure enough i got a couple kills and was way ahead.[/quote]

[quote=Sensei Lyfur]I'm glad that you found this helpful! I'd be happy to play with you, if you'd like. Just PM me or send me a request in game.[/quote]

[quote=Sensei Lyfur]Alright, so I went and played some Lee Sin in the jungle (sorry it took so long, I was just getting accustomed to the new Season 3 jungle). And I think I have a basic idea of what you might want to consider doing. First thing that has to be done: practice. I personally don't play Smartcast on Lee Sin, but I've heard it's very effective. But you need to practice hitting those skillshots, and understanding when to ult. The ult is often better for the positioning than the monster damage, so remember that when you're thinking about using it. At any rate, you're going to want to get a decent leash from the solo top or one of the bots, depending on if you get purple or blue. Start with the E, take the Q next, and finish with the W. I max them in the order of Q>E>W. Just do your standard jungle route, starting wolves/wraiths, moving onto red, wolves/wraiths, and blue into ganking. This is what makes Jungle Lee Sin so devastating. Like Ahri, he has great ganking potential, so you're going to want to gank whenever you can. His W can be used to get out after a turret dive, and it will also provide you with a useful shield that can often save your life. The actual ganking, though, is the good part. Hit them with Q, wait and see if they flash, and if they do or don't Q to to them again, hit your E twice, and by then you may have the kill (thanks to your teammates). If it doesn't look like you'll get the kill, try and safeguard to a minion in front of them, or flash in front of them and then ult them back towards your tower and your teammates. This takes a lot of practice, so just try and get used to it. Although using the Wriggle's Lantern and jumping to the ward can be effective, flash is more effective because it's faster. That's the basics of ganking with him, it should feel pretty natural. Also, remember that Lee Sin is a great counter-jungler. He can go into the enemy jungle, steal buffs, and get kills. He has ridiculous escape mechanisms (his Q can be used to jump into jungle camps and over walls, his W can do the same thing except with wards, and his ult gives you distance if you really need to get away. His ult also has a knock-up on any other enemies the target ulted go through, so position yourself to get the most CC possible. Lee Sin is easy to pick up in the jungle, but incredibly hard to master, so I would recommend just practicing and getting the hang of his ganks. Good luck, hope this helps.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]2 things. First, that looks so bad as a wall of text, oh my god. Secondly, I don't know why you'd ever max Q first. All it brings to the table is a bush check and damage. W and E bring larger utility in the form of a bigger shield to an ally, and more lifesteal/spell vamp or a larger slow for MS and Attack speed. Going E->Q in the jungle is only if you're going for a level two gank on bot or top after red. Otherwise, my preferred skill order is E->W->E->Q or, E->W->W->Q if you're not feeling safe in the jungle. While W's lifesteal/spellvamp is up, smite the buff for a nice heal. This will help you through the jungle a bit easier. When it comes to items, Wriggles and Phage should be your early core. Move to [[Trinity force]] if you need more damage and [[Frozen mallet]] if they're getting away a lot. Pick up a [[sightstone]]/[[ruby sightstone]] if you're planning on doing a lot of counter jungling as it allows you to do a lot of sweet tricks with [[safeguard / iron will]] and [[sonic wave]] in terms of mobility. When fighting someone, and wanting to use a full rotation just for damage, E->E->Q->R->Q is your best damage tool as the second part of Q does more the less HP they have left. Going back to the jungle route that Lyfur has, that's not optimal for "newer" junglers. Wolves->blue->wraiths->red/golems->golems/red->wraiths works just as well and will still get you to level 4 in time to gank mid if that's what you want. If you're gankning any lane with flash, Q->Q can be scary in its self and can often force a flash. That's a good gank and you can just come back in a second to repeat it when they can't flash away. That's my knowledge for jungle Lee, which I do infrequently. When it comes to building, just build as much damage as you can that still makes you tanky. [[Hexdrinker]]/[[Maw of malmortius]] are real strong as well as, like I said earlier, [[phage]] into whatever.[/quote]

[quote=Sensei Lyfur]Lugignaf is absolutely correct, it did look rather intimidating as a wall of text... my bad on that. And after reading over the post, most of his points are pretty valid. I really appreciate that he could clear that up a bit. At any rate, my reason for maxing Q first: damage. I personally am just quite fond of the damage you get twice from the combo, which I find useful to my play style. Of course, should you not like that and prefer the utility as shown above, I've ran that kind of build and yes, it is successful.[/quote]