Trinity Force -> Zephyr at Irelia/Udyr?

[quote=NicknameMy]I latetly visited lolking, just looking around what UOL Vizicsacsi is doing, then I found that game: http://www.lolking.net/replay/euw/1716524942#summoners First, kinda funny that Vizicsacsi is still on the top over Alex Ich. Second thing I did see, [[trinity force]] into [[zephyr]], seems to pretty interesting. Then I looked up statistics about [[zephyr]] and found out, that it is even more popular on [[udyr]]. The next funny thing I thought about, is, that I use the same combo on my Bruiser'Gath. Is that combo really that strong?[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu]On certain champions - yes[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]I see this crap on [[Udyr]] a lot. Thing is, Udyr can actually use the combo and stats well because of his hyper farm carry nature. [[Cho'Gath]] is extremely slow, and far slower at clearing (though he isn't exactly terrible, he's "eh"). I get that you don't wanna play generic tank Cho or AP Cho, but seriously this style you're trying to lay out for him just doesn't work. His [[Vorpal Spikes]] are meant to fill a gap in damage output between his cooldowns, not be his primary source of damage. For the record, here's a few champions that DO use this combo effectively: Probably any Trinity Force ADC ([[Corki]], [[Ezreal]], [[Kog'maw]]. * [[Irelia]] (Cause dat passive yo) [[Master Yi]] * (Apparently this works for the same reason it does on [[Udyr]]) [[Udyr]] (as we established) *Means I have seen it but don't know enough about the champion to state that it actually is good or not. So very few off the top of my head, Cho, not surprisingly, not being on the list.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]So, what you gonna say against this D1 build? http://www.solomid.net/guide/view/120517-chogath-build-guide-jungle-fighter-by-jiggaflip[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]That he's a D1 player and if he feels like making a name for himself by playing both a bad champion and a weird style, go for it? Clearly it works for him, but it's not doing lower elo players any favors trying to sell this as a legitimate guide. Cho isn't worth playing competitively (I have to make that distinction because he's perfectly fine for normals or other non serious games) and this style definitely isn't. Just because a diamond player does it, doesn't mean it's good. AP Sejuani is mained by a D1 player, and he wins doing it, but does that make AP Mid Sejuani good? Not really. It's mostly trolly fun, like AS Cho. Also, he builds AN ZEPHYR, not multiple attack speed items. Honestly it doesnt make sense to me. Why wouldnt he just get a Wit's End and Merc treads? Seems like more efficient use of gold than buying a Zephyr, which has AD and crap he doesnt need.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu][quote=NicknameMy]So, what you gonna say against this D1 build? http://www.solomid.net/guide/view/120517-chogath-build-guide-jungle-fighter-by-jiggaflip[/quote] There are some stupid explanations (matchups and summoner spells - quick read) so therefore I can't automatically assume that he is speaking truthfully and not exaggerating EDIT: Also he doesn't take silence, range or cool down into account when counting which is better - maxing e or w Just shows how flawed the way he thinks is[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]I give you credit for actually reading any of it, Jani. I just looked at the items and build and what not.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote]Why the hell do you buy Zephyr? It gives AD! Well, every other stat on it is amazing for Cho'Gath; you can actually auto-attack in skirmishes and team fights with this item. It gives Tenacity, which lets you buy Ninja Tabi instead of Mercury's Treads (Ninja Tabi are much more cost-effective). For that matter, how is 25 AD really "wasted" if I've bought 50% AS and am auto-attacking a lot? CDR is also a great stat and something you will buy every game. This is a great item on plenty of other champions, but they cannot rush it because it's not extremely strong on it's own. Cho'Gath is an exception to this, because we have lots of base damage and innate tankiness. Zephyr lets you use these good numbers to their fullest potential with the bonus movement speed. The key problem with Cho'Gath in skirmishes and team fights is his lack of mobility. Having more movement speed gets you in position that second or half second sooner to make critical plays in a team fight, or connect with your Feast. This item gets me a lot of flack in solo queue, but I am completely convinced that it's one of the best items for Cho'Gath.[/quote][/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]This dude, much like you, are giving base movement speed WAY too much credit. This dude's like your hipster Messiah. He's pretty much you, but is actually successful in the game somehow, which saddens me. Edit: So my math tells me with a Zephyr, Cho will have roughly 429 movement speed. Please explain to me how this minimal MS increase will allow him to repeatedly hit champions that have dashes or blinks like [[Ezreal]], [[Lee Sin]], etc? Half of the cast can out maneuver you without high MS, especially considering a Caitlyn with no boots and her net on cooldown can dodge a [[Rupture]] with relative ease.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Welp, I get that through getting both [[trinity force]]/[[boots of swiftness]], [[zephyr]] and [[enchantment: distortion]] in combination with [[ghost]] and [[summoner's Insight]], having [[ghost]] up nearly every time with 40% MS. Also, MS Quints and MS masteries. This gives me around 600 MS and that is actually a big factor.[/quote]