im pretty sure it only works with nautilus if you start on the blue buff side of the map because youll need to smite red for the hp it gives so you dont die, and i only recommend this for buff security since you can get both before you recall
Thanks to TheNamelessBard for the signature
Everything feels... clunky. I'm so not used to it yet.
Leashing is a huge benefit to clearing, and I doubt it'll fall out of favor, especially with how certain champs seem to be struggling with their first clear.
Otherwise, you can start Gromp or Krug with an immediate smite and then proceed to clear your buff. Krug only provides CC, but it lets you avoid a lot of damage, and it'll let you keep your health up just enough to get the ball rolling on your farming or ganks.
The only good ganking buffs are at south and north side, which sucks because it limits your options based on what side you're on. Wolves are also useless for anyone but counter-junglers, which bothers me to no end.
The Scuttler is useful, and is a really nice objective for not only you, but your teammates, since it covers the river with vision and even promotes roaming. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to fit into ganking strategy yet, and a lot of interactions with it are unclear. It also takes forever to die, especially early on.
Dragon and Baron are awesome now, little I would change beyond reduced bonuses for the Dragon's few stacks. It's snowbally, and having even two stacks over the enemy is a huge advantage.
The items are good, but they're obviously lopsided in power. Every single one of them should reduce Smite's CD, at least.
WW is an auto-ban once again. That guy's rework cannot come fast enough...
Leashing is a huge benefit to clearing, and I doubt it'll fall out of favor, especially with how certain champs seem to be struggling with their first clear.
Otherwise, you can start Gromp or Krug with an immediate smite and then proceed to clear your buff. Krug only provides CC, but it lets you avoid a lot of damage, and it'll let you keep your health up just enough to get the ball rolling on your farming or ganks.
The only good ganking buffs are at south and north side, which sucks because it limits your options based on what side you're on. Wolves are also useless for anyone but counter-junglers, which bothers me to no end.
The Scuttler is useful, and is a really nice objective for not only you, but your teammates, since it covers the river with vision and even promotes roaming. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to fit into ganking strategy yet, and a lot of interactions with it are unclear. It also takes forever to die, especially early on.
Dragon and Baron are awesome now, little I would change beyond reduced bonuses for the Dragon's few stacks. It's snowbally, and having even two stacks over the enemy is a huge advantage.
The items are good, but they're obviously lopsided in power. Every single one of them should reduce Smite's CD, at least.
WW is an auto-ban once again. That guy's rework cannot come fast enough...
If you want to help me, teach me.
I have only played a few normal games with Vi, but tried some custom games with Vi, Warwick, Maokai and Master Yi. Warwick does not notice much change (though I miss not being able to start with a pink ward). Vi seems pretty, well, Viable. The jungle is a bit tougher, but she could do a full path even without a leash. Master Yi seemed pretty decent (though I don’t ever play him). His clears are fast and the jungle items seem to be a good fit. Maokai had a hard time with the first clear but seems decent once he gets going.
When are you finding that you get your jungle item enchantment? It seems like you could hold off to make that a third or fourth item. For a tanky Vi build, I found that an early The Brutalizer and Sunfire Aegis helped out in the jungle more than the Juggernaut upgrade. For Master Yi, the Devourer upgrade seems like a good early item.
Does anybody else notice that it is harder to get gold for a decent build? The longer camp respawn times are noticeable and the jungle items don’t give the extra gold that they used to. Even in a Vi game where I got 2 early kills I felt like it took a while before I had a decent build going. What is the gold efficiency of the enchantments?
Turbo Chemtank seems like a pretty solid item for Maokai...health, mana, health regen...and the active seems great for an engage. I have not tried it in game yet though.
Vi, but tried some custom games with Vi, Warwick, Maokai and Master Yi. Warwick does not notice much change (though I miss not being able to start with a pink ward). Vi seems pretty, well, Viable. The jungle is a bit tougher, but she could do a full path even without a leash. Master Yi seemed pretty decent (though I don’t ever play him). His clears are fast and the jungle items seem to be a good fit. Maokai had a hard time with the first clear but seems decent once he gets going.When are you finding that you get your jungle item enchantment? It seems like you could hold off to make that a third or fourth item. For a tanky
Vi build, I found that an early The Brutalizer and Sunfire Aegis helped out in the jungle more than the Juggernaut upgrade. For Master Yi, the Devourer upgrade seems like a good early item.Does anybody else notice that it is harder to get gold for a decent build? The longer camp respawn times are noticeable and the jungle items don’t give the extra gold that they used to. Even in a
Vi game where I got 2 early kills I felt like it took a while before I had a decent build going. What is the gold efficiency of the enchantments? Turbo Chemtank seems like a pretty solid item for Maokai...health, mana, health regen...and the active seems great for an engage. I have not tried it in game yet though.
After a few games as jungle, it seems that "ok" sustain, like Kha'Zix needs a 1 back and a machete upgrade before being able to do much, Evelynn is just ridiculously problematic. High sustain junglers are great, a game as Zac had me able to stay in the jungle protentially forever without a back. Warwick is obviously the best in the high sustain jungle department.
Kha'Zix needs a 1 back and a machete upgrade before being able to do much, Evelynn is just ridiculously problematic. High sustain junglers are great, a game as Zac had me able to stay in the jungle protentially forever without a back. Warwick is obviously the best in the high sustain jungle department.
Here is a Pants are Dragon video that is useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtriYEviPmI
I thought a big reason for the changes was to stop early gankers like Lee Sin? So how come Lee can go Buff-Wolves-Buff and be 3/4 health (without using a leash) and be in prime shape for a level 3 around 3:20 gank? I never fully realized how much sustain he has. I just wish I had half the mechanic skill needed to play Lee.
My overall impression is that these changes don't drastically change who is a good jungler. Warwick is one of my most played junglers, but his kit is still just more annoying than good. I do see where the reduction in gold for junglers will lessen their overall impact.
I thought a big reason for the changes was to stop early gankers like
Lee Sin? So how come Lee can go Buff-Wolves-Buff and be 3/4 health (without using a leash) and be in prime shape for a level 3 around 3:20 gank? I never fully realized how much sustain he has. I just wish I had half the mechanic skill needed to play Lee.My overall impression is that these changes don't drastically change who is a good jungler.
Warwick is one of my most played junglers, but his kit is still just more annoying than good. I do see where the reduction in gold for junglers will lessen their overall impact.
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ive been doing what nicknamemy said pretty well, which is gromp/rocks+smite > Buff > Buff+smite then recalling but you do cut it pretty close with hp and ive only tested it with hecarim sejuani and nautilus
I think that could work pretty well on WW, the single camp I do between buffs has always been Wight/Gromp for me, seeing as WW does 100% single target damage, and he can take the beating it gives.