The smiting S5 support

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=Joltfox]I hardly ever flash because when I go deep , I commit to that because if you fail you die , turning your back when your are deepwithin is also getting you killed and flashplays with thresh ? Not skilled enough for that. Later on in the game because of the juggernaut item , ruby sightstone and frozen heart I'm way to tanky to be oneshotted and fully build with Iona boots , warmogg and spirit visage ? ... You just keep running inbetween them bro and cc the living hell out of them. The only reason why I can get away with this is because I'm still silver ... Once I get to high gold early plat that wont be an option anymore and I would be more skilled enough to make flashplays with thresh My build with the juggernaut would be juggernaut , frozen , warmogg , spirit visage , iona boots and frozen mallet and I would use ward trinket and my lantern to gain vision[/quote]You won't likely get out of Silver doing that kind of stuff, just my two cents there. [[Sightstone]] and [[Oracle's Lens]] are core items, your team won't have enough vision and you won't be able to clear enemy vision without them. [[Frozen Mallet]] is a pretty poor item in general from what I know. Take a look at [url=http://www.mobafire.com/profile/joxuu-207280]Joxuu[/url]'s [[Thresh]] guide, he knows his shit.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=RazeMage] Then [[Leona]]/[[Thresh]] [[smite]] a minion, giving the ADC heal with [[Relic Shield]], giving them the win :P lol[/quote] I can get [[relic shield]] too, so this variable can't be considered. The only variable that can actually be considered here is [[smite]] vs [[exhaust]]/[[ignite]]. Sorry to burst your bubble.[/quote]

[quote=Joltfox]@Sirell : I have taken smite and exhaust together , My playstyle doesn't go well with ignite :p but I'm pretty sure you won't dive me lvl 2 because I'm running 0-15-15 masteries ... my cookies will save me and you will put yourself in a dangerous position so if I have a decent adc , I'll make sure he gets you down :) especially smiting you first will slow you for 2 seconds and if you are low enough , I'll ff'ing exhaust your ass too while I start focussing your adc @The_Nameless_Bard : I am a core believer that you should feel out your champion and not use runes and masteries from someone else. I daily practice thresh just to be able to land my hook and to learn what can be done and what can't be done , like recently , if I notice the enemy will push back my lane , I will start moving behind them to either draw attention away from my adc or so I can start harrasing them And I know oracle and sightstone are core but then again ... what is your main goal as an support ? I am all about utility so frozen mallet gives me that utility , thresh has bonus magic damage on his AA every 10 sec so if I can aply a slow with that , then I will gladly do that THANKS BY THE WAY FOR THE GUIDE REFERALL :D ( didn't want this to get lost inbetween the many letters words and senteces ) And think about it , as a leona , braum , thresh and other tanky supports you want to be able to keep going and take the poke for days to come , if you do well in lane you can get 500hp , 10% cdr and 35% tenacity in like ...10-15 minutes ? it only costs 2250 gold , try to buy the same stats for 2250 srr for all this text but I'm trying to make you guys understand why I'm doing it. Even tough the meta is the way to go , I don't believe it is definite and I bet on a champion with the next summoner who replys that you will see it in LCS ( I'm serious , if you want a free champion when it doesn't happen , comment about it :p don't care how much that champion may cost )[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Joltfox]@Sirell : I have taken smite and exhaust together , My playstyle doesn't go well with ignite :p but I'm pretty sure you won't dive me lvl 2 because I'm running 0-15-15 masteries ... my cookies will save me and you will put yourself in a dangerous position so if I have a decent adc , I'll make sure he gets you down :) especially smiting you first will slow you for 2 seconds and if you are low enough , I'll ff'ing exhaust your ass too while I start focussing your adc [/quote] Too bad you won't have [[flash]] to save yourself from FB. I don't have to dive you, but I'm going to all-in you at level 2. Supports tend not to have high mobility, so they're the easy target in extended fights. And you can't [[smite]] me until you buy the item, gg.[/quote]

[quote=Out Of Pancakes]I've just seen a game with Imaqtpie and Lustboy as [[lucian]] and [[thresh]], blue side, Lustboy had [[smite]] (and [[flash]] of course), started Machete and biscuits. They did Golems or w/e they're called ([[krugs]]?) before coming to lane. [[smite]] helped them to clear the camp really fast but they got roflstomped by their opponents ([[janna]] and [[corki]]) when a level 2 trade happened, since they could not use their advantage before their opponents got their level 2. The first item Lustboy bought was the [[stalker's blade]] but it had close to no impact on the game since they could not contest any dragon nor any objective. The problem I saw was that, even if they would have taken advantage of their level 2 while their opponents were still level 1 is that : - they were down 1 summoner spell. - [[thresh]] had ABSOLUTELY NO combat stats. Starting with Machete enable him to upgrade it at first back but he paid for the lack of stats in the early trades, which can decide which way the lane will go.[/quote]

[quote=TheKut]I don't know if this has come up yet, but there is this thing with [[Warwick]] top with [[Smite]] and [[Flash]]. You start the lane with just farming and then you go back and and buy [[Skirmisher's Sabre]]. This allows you to smite the enemy and then pop ult on them for some fantastic true damage. Combine this with [[Blade of the ruined king]] and (if you want) [[Wit's End]] and your ult finally does some serious damage. It works wonders in normals but I don't know about ranked. And if you're up against for example [[Ryze]] or [[Lulu]] you're going to lose anyway because ww. It's not entirely on topic but I thought it was worth mentioning.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=TheKut]I don't know if this has come up yet, but there is this thing with [[Warwick]] top with [[Smite]] and [[Flash]]. You start the lane with just farming and then you go back and and buy [[Skirmisher's Sabre]]. This allows you to smite the enemy and then pop ult on them for some fantastic true damage. Combine this with [[Blade of the ruined king]] and (if you want) [[Wit's End]] and your ult finally does some serious damage. It works wonders in normals but I don't know about ranked. And if you're up against for example [[Ryze]] or [[Lulu]] you're going to lose anyway because ww. It's not entirely on topic but I thought it was worth mentioning.[/quote] It was mentioned briefly before by Utopus who made a case for [[smite]] being on toplaners, so it's definitely worth mentioning. It's certainly a possibility at the moment for top laners, but the way the game is currently played, I don't think [[smite]] on support is worth it, even if you can get an early level 2 with it by killing bot-side jungle creep.[/quote]

[quote=Joltfox]It can work in my opinion but I think lustboy went wrong with buying a machete first He should have started relic shield and just smited the red/blue buff and then leash it for a bit so your jungler has his smite for the frog. If you can manage to stay long enough you can get the extra mana/health from smiting and take it with you into lane ( don't know if it transfer to you if you are already bot when the red/blue buff gets killed ) I'm actually having no problems with it , I can sustain lane , I can pressure the lane by just being an asshole and walking up to the trough minions , when I have an stack on my shield I smite it when I feel there is no gank comming up ( seeing jungler in mid going top or top going mid ) I communicate alot with my adc , like ... I even ping if he's not noticing that there is a minion low xD And I don't overextend when I have no knowledge of where the enemy jungler is I always tell what I4m about to do to like before I engage I type QEaa and then pin on who or I just type full comb and ping the sucker whom I bring it on and you ... a level 2 kill on me ? those on whom it does succeed are those who can't play , the moment I see your adc outfarming mine , I back the fuck up ... I ain't stupid[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu][[smite]] is way too slow because it requires an item. I took golems + got early first blood as [[blitzcrank]] with [[smite]] but it was still awfully slow and wasn't that big of a deal. It's only useful for aggressive supports for early game but you won't get it until level 6 or something. Not having [[exhaust]] or [[ignite]] in lane will lose you the fights, guaranteed. [[exhaust]] is also much more useful in the late game than [[smite]]. You can argue with double [[smite]] for an objective but you usually need to win your lane first before you want to do risky objectives. On the fact that it's a really slow item, the actual base stats won't benefit you at all, so you will end up having no additional stats except for base stats if you rush the item and starting with a normal support item is way too slow. It's a cool idea I admit but I'm pretty sure it won't be a thing and will end up costing a lot for the small benefit.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Joltfox] and you ... a level 2 kill on me ? those on whom it does succeed are those who can't play , the moment I see your adc outfarming mine , I back the fuck up ... I ain't stupid[/quote] Mate, I could probably kill you at level 1. From Bronze to mid/low Gold, it's really easy to get a kill before 2 minutes. Honestly, I worked my way up all the way through Silver and through Gold and it wasn't until Gold 3-4ish that players were skilled enough to stop getting done in at level 2. And that was when I was running [[doran's shield]] into [[talisman of ascension]] start and not [[relic shield]]. [url=http://www.mobafire.com/comment-link?comment_id=926935]Hell, I got into gold playing lulu/soraka botlane.[/url] Seriously, if you think I can't demolish your lane when you're just Silver V, you're extremely naive. [[smite]] definitely won't do more for you in trades than [[exhaust]] will and you won't even be able to [[smite]] me until you buy the item, which is... when? By that time, I'll have [[sightstone]] and that'll give me more combat stats than [[stalker's blade]] or [[skirmisher's blade]] AND I'll save money on wards earlier. The only upside to laning with upgraded [[smite]] is that it's a 60s CD, but you'd have to smite me 2-3 times to equate to the hp of [[sightstone]]. It's just that it's an extremely inefficient way of doing things, and with supports in particular, gold is important to maximise their utility. Frankly, having to pour gold into your first item just so your Summoner Spells work in a similar way that [[exhaust]]/[[ignite]] do already is silly and on top of this, you don't take [[flash]], which makes you even more prone to being a free kill. tl;dr It's a pretty bad idea for a support to take [[smite]] and even worse not to take [[flash]]. You don't know how to itemize and it's probably the main reason why you're in Silver V with 7 wins to 12 losses.[/quote]