lol Jungleking thanks for the comments! When I was re-doing the whole thing it had been like 2 weeks since I played at all so the strategy might be a little weak due to that. And you're right about the cost so I'll be modifying it a bit...but to be honest I'm not sure I really care anymore about the build. I'll probably just keep modifying it but at some point it just kind of became a way for me to remember my optimal build. =P

Ok I seriously need to write this after I reread your guide.

Not feedback, Just something i don't like.

A: The cost of your build. When you compare your build to Palthios's, Understand that he's #1 for a reason. Your build is far too expensive to be built in ranked play. Hell, even in normal it'd be diffucult.

B: not complimenting Garen's early game. Palthios stacks doran's for a reason. your Q+E make you a devastating carry early game and sadly, a B.F sword comes too late to get you those early game kills unless you're being fed or just doing naturally well because your skill level is high.

So with this said, I believe Palthios's build wins out due to it's cost,reliability and better taking advantage of Garen's build. But do remember, everyone has their own style, I'm just saying Palthios has an amazing guide which is SO NOT outdated and works very nicely.

P.S: you might wanna make this guide a little more in-depth. You're below 5k words so your guide isn't shown on the list of Garen guides so less people are seeing this and being helped by it.

Sincerely,

JungleKing

Ok.... I got some more stuff to note.

A: You should really add that your ultimate can be baited my Heal because it does more damage based on % health remaining.

B: On your math about Judgement, Some things I noted. Here is the MATHZ

341 (AD of your build) x .7= 238.7 damage per .5 seconds. this means 477.4 damage per second right? so then, if you do 477.4 x 3= 1432.2 damage.

Things to note of the above calculations. It didn't take in ArPen or ArRed.
It didn't take in ANY crits.

And it did not take in armour.

To do some quick math here for the crit part:

1432.2 x 2.5=3580.5 damage within 3 seconds if each strike is a critical strike.

What is wrong with this.

Armour counters you hard early-mid game, so till late game when you HAVE ALL YOUR ITEMS or almost all, Palthios's statement that it falls out a little is true, even with your build.

That's it for the Judgement part, this math is right in my opinion but, if you find a mistake just say so and ill get the new correct numbers.

Summoner Spells: Revive. No... Just no please. this spell is so not viable, even for new players. Surge would be better because

A. the Ats benefits you

B. it doesn't have a freakin 5 min cd

Bot Lane:
Ok I'm gonna state it right here and now. If you didn't say so, GAREN IN BOT LANE IS NOT OPTIMAL.

ok got my little rant out, here's the facts.

The current meta dictates that a ranged ad carry and support go bot. This makes Garen going bot VERY bad.

I have not hit ranked yet but, at my normal elo, this would happen.

A: your ranged ad carry isn't getting free farm because no support is babysitting them.

B: the enemy should have a ranged ad carry bot. Here, I speak from experience from when I started LoL and went bot as Garen. Kiting Hell is the name of the game. Graves Ashe Vayne or anyone like them will kite you and hurt you. This results in:

Less farm because they're hammering you down from a safe distance. This results in you not getting your items because, let's face it. your build is expensive (not saying that's really bad) but in bot lane, you just don't get enough cash.


Now for what you could say to counter me.
''ZOMG JungleKing you're helpful but Decisive Strike makes you fast so you can't be kited hardcore. Answer: the spell has a cooldown. so in the space of it coming up again, the kiting fiesta continues.

Q: Surge gives AP, so isn't it useless? A: No, the 35% attack speed AT ANY LEVEL for 12 seconds is more beneficial than a 5 min cheesy GA passive which takes you back to your base so you can't even rejoin team fights after using it, unlike a Guardian Angel.

Q: The math is wrong, why are you wasting my time. A: It could be but I believe my math and my points are valid. If it's wrong, I apoligize for I am a mere person trying to help.

(NOTE: I know you would say those things in a nicer way xD but yea, if you think any of those questions are something you believe, the Answers have answered them (get it?).

EDIT: Decisive Strike silences instantly, so a thing to note is that it can stop things like: Nunu & Willump's Absolute Zero, Karthus's Requiem, Katarina's Death Lotus (not too sure about that one) Ezreal's Ultimate Barrage Darius's Noxian Guillotine and Fiora 's Blade Waltz Just to name a few. Also if you use any of this, A nice shoutout to me would be appreciated *wink-wink*
Edit Edit lol: The math is wrong atm due to me not counting in Lethality . When I wake up tomorrow ill put in the correct numbers.
Sincerely,

JungleKing

Thanks for the comment koreansp, I have officially adjusted my guide! I was able to add everything you said except the cleaver vs. last whisper, but I explained that at the end anyway. I'd appreciate a +1 =)

p.s. reading your olaf guide today, not too bad!

Alright so I did a fair bit of testing over the weekend, and found a way that I could have my cake and eat it too. I went away from my usual boots>BF>vampiric>BT, into a dorans blade>boots>BF>vamp.x2>infinity. I was preposterously strong as well as had all the lifesteal I wanted. I just later sold my second vamp to make room for my phage and continued as normal. I don't know why but I just never thought to stack LS...

No Problem. Just happy to help

I'll totally add it as an alternative, and I'll give Infinity a second chance. Thanks!

Lol well you are right, Blood Thirster is cheaper. But look at this and tell me what you think.

First of All, Your Judgment can crit, and that's your damage source till later on when your AA's are better.

2nd. You're not really using the lifesteal unless you're AA'ing at that time (mid game-ish) which you shouldn't be doing.

3rd. You are a primary target. If you get caught out of position or even just focused in a team fight, You can lose your stacks too easily.

4. Compare Infinity Edge and Blood Thirster. If you can stack the BT, this is what you lose and what you get.

+20 AD
+20% lifesteal
-25% critical chance
-50% MORE CRITICAL STRIKE DAMAGE

Now look at that little list shown above. To save 800 ish gold, you're getting Lifesteal that you're not using to the fullest AND not making your AA's/ Judgment stronger by making them crit more and then making them do a WHOLE 250% damage of the base damage.

Just try it in some games and maybe add it as an alternative.

Sincerely,

JungleKing

Thanks for the plus one!

I never really play Garen in the exact same order, and I'll add the following explanation later, but even with the math, I think the utility of Bloodthirster outweighs the power of Infinity Edge in the early game.

I take Bloodthirster first on Garen because, with my play style, it allows me to stay out of base for a lot longer. I always have Zeal first, so that gives me a little move speed and crit chance, not to mention AS, which allows me to roam after the first tower has fallen. Furthermore, Bloodthirster is 800 gold cheaper, and if I've been doing well, I would already have the BF and Vampiric, which would leave that massive 100AD only 900 gold away. Level 1 boots, Zeal, and Bloodthirster IMO is a great combo for the first teamfights, early ganks post-laning, and jungling for sustain.

Thanks again for the +1!

P.S. I mostly added the big comment so I remember to add it to the build later. =P

+1

oops, forgot to vote earlier

Thanks for taking in my comment. While your opinion may stand on Blood Thirster vs. Infinity Edge , Just do the math and you'll see why Infinty Edge dominates Blood Thirster on Garen earlier on. Ill even post it if you want, Just trying to help xD.

P.S- +1 for now because of the BbCoding and the improvements.

Alright everybody, I'll give a comprehensive sweeping answer to all comments for now... First guide, never done anything like it before. I don't know anything about bb coding, and I realize it's full of mistakes and some minor weaknesses, so the comments are much appreciated!

Focused response to JungleKing. Thanks a bunch for the input, I'm working on the coding. I'll be taking some of your comment into the build, but for things like Infinity vs. Bloodthirster, my opinion stands. I will make clarifications on my play style and strategies along with my coding improvements. Furthermore I'll be adding alternatives as soon as my focus shifts away from the Kayle build I am working on.