get
prime

General Guide by Slappiz

This build has been archived and is for historical display only.

PLEASE NOTE: This build has been archived by the author. They are no longer supporting nor updating this build and it may have become outdated. As such, voting and commenting have been disabled and it no longer appears in regular search results.

We recommend you take a look at this author's other builds.



Not Updated For Current Season

This guide has not yet been updated for the current season. Please keep this in mind while reading. You can see the most recently updated guides on the browse guides page.


1968K
Views
238
Comments
267
Votes
League of Legends Build Guide Author Slappiz

Counter picks against each individual champion (Out-of-date)

Slappiz Last updated on October 21, 2014
Like Build on Facebook Tweet This Build Share This Build on Reddit

Quick Comment

You need to log in before commenting.

[-] Collapse All Comments

Sort Comments By
1
[-]
Jeaced | June 30, 2014 9:46pm
Nice guide but it needs more information. For example you wrote that to counter gangplank you need stacking armor and constantly harras him, but it can work only vs critplank maxing Q. I play gp bruiser W>E>Q and it very hard to make me recall because oranges OP! And actually I usualy make
tons of magic damage(Like 43% magic and 57 physical)
1
[-]
FalseoGod (305) | May 30, 2014 6:06am
Kata didn't counter swain back then and she does it even less now. She can't lane against him pre-6 in any way or shape, Swain will never be able to push the lane and she can't farm unless she uses Q (since shunpo makes her eat ****) which pushes the lane slowly, allowing him full control. Post-6 he needs to mess it up hard, she doesn't have 100-0 potential by herself.

Fizz is a skill matchup for swain.

If you want real counters you should look at champions with reliable low CD shields and/or good kiting. Karma, Lulu, Anivia, Orianna all screw Swain up his birdhole.

Also the lack of chesterino photo updates from the OP makes me sad ._.
1
[-]
Ralsek | May 30, 2014 5:56am
Amazing guide, nice work :)
1
[-]
Zyad (7) | May 18, 2014 11:18pm
No nidalee in tier list?
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | May 18, 2014 10:47pm
Khardil wrote:

Ahha, that was so funny...
Srsly no Orianna? Twitch T3? And so on... U must kiddin mon :D
Gettin diamond w Yi?


I made this guide 2 years ago, it's still kinda outdated and the update progress is really slow :P
1
[-]
Khardil (1) | May 18, 2014 3:15pm
Ahha, that was so funny...
Srsly no Orianna? Twitch T3? And so on... U must kiddin mon :D
Gettin diamond w Yi?
1
[-]
nilire | April 23, 2014 9:42pm
Stuff me no likey: I seriously do not think that Katarina is tier 3, at least tier 2 in my opinion. Ahri and Viktor though while played well can counter Katarina, there are better counters for Katarina and those two can be counter-played. I suggest replacing them with LeBlanc and Fizz (Others can be Diana, Malzahar, Ziggs etc..) You also forgot to point out that early game bullying can also shut down Katarina for a while making her unable to roam and COMPLETELY snowball.

Stuff me likey: Great effort put into the guide, minor errors, and you put exhaust as a counter for Katarina ( so underrated vs her =_=). Most of the stuff that I didn't like were all just about Katarina because she is my main. Great guide, hope to see it completed.

(sorry about being so biased on Katarina :c )

PS: Add Katarina top please ^_^
1
[-]
Alerean | April 9, 2014 9:10am
Really useful guide man. I do wonder though why Nidalee isn't listed in the soloq tier list? Honestly she is really broken, and at least a tier 2 Mid, if not higher.
1
[-]
ach2ng | July 16, 2013 9:53am
Here's my 2 cents!
Speaking of Blitz, Ez is a good counterpick because even if he's grabbed he has time to dodge it with his `E`
Daruis counters Rene. Same as skilled Irellia who knows how to lane vs Rene.
Darius counters Malph and Shen. Actually, these guys can't even come to the minions to get some last hits.
Irellia counters Pantheon really good. The only problem for her is reaching lvl 6, because Panth dominates her first 5 lvls, but his ulti is kinda useless in 1 v 1 combat, so Ire takes her advantage.
1
[-]
Duait | February 4, 2013 7:31am
if Graves gets countered by long range then shouldn't Kog'Maw be on the list of champs that counter him? I mean he has probably got the longest range in the league o.0
1
[-]
phymis | December 6, 2012 4:22am
Yeah, please refresh, dude!! Really liked your guide, but it's pretty outdated since new champs etc...
1
[-]
X4N4T05 | December 2, 2012 11:09am
Renekton is one of my main champions and I always seem to have a difficult time facing a Wukong that builds tanky. Might be a counter, but I'm not sure if it's proven. Also, I've gone 6-0 (yes, i count) against Riven tops using Renekton. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I don't see it as a good kit for a counter.
1
[-]
Badboy1205 | November 12, 2012 2:47am
Refresh Please!! There so many more champs out now and you left info on somechamps. But shot g this real helpful
1
[-]
dumbfoundead (4) | October 18, 2012 5:40am
Just noticed jarvan doesnt counter anyone, i know thats not necessarily a bad thing but id like to see him placed on people like poppy because her counters are people with a strong early game
1
[-]
Sigeas | October 1, 2012 9:18pm
Please update, and complete the guide. Add some details such as for master yi when ad and when ap, 'cause getting armor against ap yi won't help.
1
[-]
Laserhuuhkaja | September 24, 2012 12:02pm
Great guide, personally i fount the best counterpick in the game missing from your list
Kayle counters Renekton like theres no tomorrow, i mean he can just dominate him so easily and he will have no chance against him. U really should add that to your list, as its the easiest way to counter him imo
1
[-]
Mr Erth (1) | September 21, 2012 1:43am
Please continue working on this guide. It is slightly out of date and not finished yet, but already awesome. If you finish it and keep it update to date, then it'll be amazing!

+1
1
[-]
aesopt71985 | September 14, 2012 9:38am
One thing i would like to say is this guide is very good but like to let you know IMO
1.Annie counter Ahri (High Burst Damage)
2.Brand is countered by Anivia (Range)
3.Alistar counter Nunu (Interrupt)
4.Garen counter Renekton (Silence)
5.Irelia counter Teemo (Gap closer, CC)
6.Tristana counter Graves (Range)
7.Vladimir counter Yorick (Sustain)
8.Garen counter Riven (Silence)
9.Nunu counter vladimir (Continuous damage, Sustain)
10.Zilean counter Akali (Range)

[DO NOT HAVE TO LISTEN, JUST MY OPINION]
1
[-]
Kleopatra | September 12, 2012 6:28am
Teemo is counter for shen
1
[-]
Redfire121 | September 12, 2012 5:01am
Where is mundo?
1
[-]
Kleopatra | September 11, 2012 6:28am
Annie counter Fizz
1
[-]
dreadfulbunny (1) | September 8, 2012 9:48am
Hey just another counter pick for wukong: teemo. He honestly owned me in lane especially when his blind stopped my Q.
1
[-]
Kleopatra | September 8, 2012 1:49am
Ahri is perfect counter for fiddle in the mid. :)
1
[-]
Death Wishez | August 30, 2012 6:15pm
One mistake I noticed was Riven counters Darius not the other way around lol


And Jayce Counters Yorick!
1
[-]
breeze91 (1) | August 28, 2012 9:11am
hey first of all nice guide, i love it.
wanted to let you know that it seems like nasus is a quite good counter vs rengar, as i have beaten several rengar's at top with nasus. do people agree with that? would be cool to know, maybe add it to the guide. p.s. tactics against him: stay far away from bushes so he can't jump on you

greetings NagaGER
1
[-]
Mylvio | August 27, 2012 11:27am
you may add a line for each champions, with the words: this is the counterpick of.....in this way if someone want to use a specific champion he can know fast who is his counterpick.. sry for bad english :D
1
[-]
Madreds (7) | August 25, 2012 2:30am
Put Veigar counterpick: Diana, she rapes Veigar so hard
1
[-]
GrandmasterD (519) | August 24, 2012 3:09pm
^Morgana doesnt counter anyone in lane. She also doesnt really get countered. Malz is actually one of the best choices against her because he can outpush her.
1
[-]
Anglachel | August 24, 2012 2:51pm
I know from experience that Morgana counters Malzahar. Her ult isn't channeled so Malzahar has to either rush his ult without using his combo, or tank Morgana's full combo before retaliating. Also, even if Malzahar does wait, Morgana has a spell shield that can block Malzahar's ult. Malzahar's only real shot is silencing Morgana which is difficult given the delay on his Q. Other than that, fantastic guide man!
1
[-]
Gettherax (2) | August 21, 2012 7:47pm
Hey, Awesome guide! You definitely got my green vote! This guide was so good, in fact, that I would like to include it in my up and coming article on www.gettherax.com titled "Stevo's top League of Legends Guide picks to help you improve your ELO overnight!" Thanks for all of your hard work, and keep it up! You rock! :)

~Stevo
1
[-]
ffanatikos | August 20, 2012 7:01am
can y add the new champs like zyra?
1
[-]
Dinenalagos | August 15, 2012 7:54am
Very good guide but there are some counter champions that are missing:

LeBlanc is a counter to heimer because she so mobile that she can burst heim and get out with the second effect of W

Also Kassadin is a counter to Karthus too the silence can destroy him.

And you should add the tip to malzahar: NEVER engange with malzahar 1 vs 1

Very good guide this will help me
1
[-]
LockCORE (2) | August 14, 2012 2:09pm
Kennen does NOT counter Morde. Just fyi as Morde is my main and have NEVER been beaten by a Kennen, ranked and normal.
1
[-]
Tyiarim | August 14, 2012 1:59pm
Cassiopeia needs to be added to Swain counters
1
[-]
Zippownz (2) | August 10, 2012 1:37pm
Hi i've come to the conclusion that Udyr counters Diana kinda hard, i mean.... i've been playing a lot of udyr (jungle and solo top) and i have fought a Diana every second game, guess what... no problems at all

you should try this out, and when you add Diana to your guide maybe put Udyr as a counter.
1
[-]
Amazing Monkey (59) | August 9, 2012 11:23am
I'm not like a pro or anything, but I think Warwick might be good against Yorick as well. I've only done it a couple times, but if you have Ignite and use your ult. It makes it pretty hard for Yorick to regain life quick enough to survive. (I'd always let the bush take the first wave of ghosties though ;3 )
1
[-]
devaht | August 9, 2012 3:59am
it's a really good guide, but there is some minor mistakes that, does make the guide a bit unreliable. an example is that you say that Caitlyn counter Sivir, but it is the other way around. Sivir has spell shield. she will be able to block almost every ability and get free mana from traps. when you find a mistake you suddenly question the hole guide. And its so good made that it does not deserve that.
1
[-]
Syther Blade (32) | August 6, 2012 7:47am
wouldnt malphite counter fiora cause of armor
1
[-]
WaT30 | July 28, 2012 11:57pm
Teemo gets countered by Riven, hard.
1
[-]
Phil15 (23) | July 28, 2012 9:05pm
Basinator wrote:

Hi!

Just played Draft Pick a few times and just lost my solo top lane hard as GP myself vs an enemy Irelia and got told that Irelia ia a hardcounter vs him.

Else: I think it might be worthy to differ the counters in TF counters, others counters and laning counters.

Also: I think it would be nice to list which champ is countered by who. Example

Gangplank:
blabla
Countered by: blabla



Thats exactly what this guide is which champ is countered by who...
1
[-]
Basinator (5) | July 26, 2012 2:10pm
Hi!

Just played Draft Pick a few times and just lost my solo top lane hard as GP myself vs an enemy Irelia and got told that Irelia ia a hardcounter vs him.

Else: I think it might be worthy to differ the counters in TF counters, others counters and laning counters.

Also: I think it would be nice to list which champ is countered by who. Example

Gangplank:
blabla
Countered by: blabla
1
[-]
sinitsa009 (1) | July 24, 2012 12:05pm
Hi, very good build, I use it very time I play LoL. But you got some mistakes: first, you wrote twitch counters twitch, and second, you wrote renekton counters riven and riven counters renekton. Good bye!
1
[-]
SoulofApocalpse | July 21, 2012 4:06am
Hi again.

Imo, Olaf is a hard counter to Udyr top lane and to Nocturne in the jungle.
The true damage and strong harass make Lanedyr really weak.
On the other hand, Nocturne is really good vs Shen, because he has high potential to fight him 1v1 and also because his fear interrupts Shen's ultimate.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | July 19, 2012 12:44am

Forgot to upvote it last time I saw it.

Good guide overall. but the better players have their counterpicks in their had amirite? :P

EDIT: Swain, Katarina, Talon and Warwick are no vlad counters.

Swain: Hard matchup early-game but if Vlad doesn't die pre-5, he outscales and wins.
Katarina: Her early-game is waay too weak for her to counter Vlad. Vlad can just stack some early mres and be fine agianst her.
Talon: Strong champ but if Vlad survives early on, not much Talon can do against my famous 'Glacial Terror' build :P
Warwick: He doesn't do anything; Vlad is not gonna do anything to him either but well.

Better counterpicks are: Akali and Yorick.


From personal experience in ranked I've never had any problems with Vladimir as Swain, Swain has better early and mid game.

Karaina vs Vlad, yeah her pre lvl 6 is weak, it really doesn't matter who she is up against, she is always week at the early stage of the lane phase.. But Katarina actually out scales Vladimir in mid game, but he catches up end game thanks to his utility and tankiness.. But a good Katarina should be able to win a lane against Vladimir, but Vlad usually goes top and so your probably better of with another champion against him.
1
[-]
OTGBionicArm (411) | July 16, 2012 8:07am
I love the counter-picking guide. But i'm having trouble believing Viktor is countered fully by Talon. I main him and I've played against many Talon's at mid and I just seem to zone him too easily. And at that rate him trying to harass is a free stun combo from Gravity Field for me. Maybe these are bad Talons. I'm not sure, dont really play him much.

Am I doing it right or is he doing it wrong? XD
1
[-]
GrandmasterD (519) | July 16, 2012 8:05am
Forgot to upvote it last time I saw it.

Good guide overall. but the better players have their counterpicks in their had amirite? :P

EDIT: Swain, Katarina, Talon and Warwick are no vlad counters.

Swain: Hard matchup early-game but if Vlad doesn't die pre-5, he outscales and wins.
Katarina: Her early-game is waay too weak for her to counter Vlad. Vlad can just stack some early mres and be fine agianst her.
Talon: Strong champ but if Vlad survives early on, not much Talon can do against my famous 'Glacial Terror' build :P
Warwick: He doesn't do anything; Vlad is not gonna do anything to him either but well.

Better counterpicks are: Akali and Yorick.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | July 11, 2012 11:45pm

Awesome list +1.

However maybe you should add a section about jungle picking, I think that would complete this nicely.


Thx

Yeah that would probably bring a lot to this guide but the jungle really aint my area of expertise.
1
[-]
A Chubby Baby (290) | July 11, 2012 2:12pm
great now that color coding is in :D.
1
[-]
AFKwithyoursister (17) | July 11, 2012 2:00pm
Awesome list +1.

However maybe you should add a section about jungle picking, I think that would complete this nicely.
1
[-]
FamousOlSpiced (1) | July 10, 2012 6:20am

With Teemo, since he's ranged, it is fundamental that you dont get hooked.
Darius' Apprehend has 550 range, while Teemo's Blinding Dart has 680.
Harass him frequently from afar, and even if you get hooked, use Move Quick to get away, much like Kayle with Divine Blassing.


I don't like harassing with the Blinding Dart, since it drains my mana pretty fast, and since i am building towards on hit Teemo i only put 1 Point in it for the blind.
Teemos Autoattack Range is 500, so i have to get in Range for his hook to attack him. I usually use my Q to blind him if I get hooked, run away with my W, and hit him with some Autoattacks as long as his hook is on CD.
I mean i can survive usually and i get decent farm. But i can't shut him down like a Garen. And if he manages to land 1 or 2 Autoattacks, his Spin and his Ultimate, then i have to go back, because he could easily dive me with the help of his Jungler.

I think that Teemo SHOULD be good against Darius, i understand it in theory, but i somehow have problems with him. The lane seems kinda even to me.
1
[-]
SoulofApocalpse | July 9, 2012 2:35pm

Nice Guide +1

But are you really sure about Teemo countering Darius? At first i allways thought that i could stomp him like Garen, but Darius seems tricky.


With Teemo, since he's ranged, it is fundamental that you dont get hooked.
Darius' Apprehend has 550 range, while Teemo's Blinding Dart has 680.
Harass him frequently from afar, and even if you get hooked, use Move Quick to get away, much like Kayle with Divine Blessing.
1
[-]
VanityVivified (4) | July 9, 2012 12:03pm
Great guide! Super useful as a quick reference in lobby before game starts.

Suggestion: I play a lot of LeBlanc, and she's an amazing counter against Veigar early-mid game, and if you are a quicker caster end game as well. Veigar's ultimate is the only thing he has on her, but Leb's chain silence is usually enough to burst him down first.
Also, [jungle] Warwick is a good counter to mid-lane Leb at 6. Suppress ult stops all of Leb's great escape mechanisms.
1
[-]
Embracing (348) | July 9, 2012 7:37am
Riven is weak to sustainable ranged harass + mobilility
like Kennen Nidalee

And against gay champs like darius who freaking outdamage her in harass and poke -_-

BUT SHE CAN MANAGE IT IN THE END AND WIN ALL ALALALALALALA
1
[-]
koksei (162) | July 9, 2012 7:17am
Quoted:

Caitlyn doesn't counter Riven. Nor does Gragas ;o

Riven will force them to be oom really quick if they actually do decide to use their escapes

No one counters Riven, but the harder matchups are Teemo, Ren, Darius


Nidaaaaaaleeeeeee wins/goes even
1
[-]
Embracing (348) | July 9, 2012 6:26am
Caitlyn doesn't counter Riven. Nor does Gragas ;o

Riven will force them to be oom really quick if they actually do decide to use their escapes

No one counters Riven, but the harder matchups are Teemo, Ren, Darius
1
[-]
FamousOlSpiced (1) | July 9, 2012 5:49am
Nice Guide +1

But are you really sure about Teemo countering Darius? At first i allways thought that i could stomp him like Garen, but Darius seems tricky.
He can do insane amount of damage if he manages to pull me, land a few auto-attacks, his Q, and sometimes this is enough to kill me with his ult. Especially since his early dmg is pretty high, and i feel that i have to get a early Phage to suvrive a bit longer.
Maybe i am not good enough, i would consider myself mediocore at best, but Darius seems like a pretty hard lane with Teemo. Yes it's possible to win but i have to bring my A-Game to stay a chance against a decent Darius.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | July 9, 2012 4:05am

i liked it cause its good and all but I think that your yorick choice of counters ain't the best, for example high CC like supresses are really good against him to stop him from using his spells, as his spells do the most dps, also early ganks might kill him but he can also kill you 1v2 easily by himself even through he may die he is sure to take you out as well.
renekton is good and galio is good but cho gath im not to crazy about, maybe warwick to keep up in levels of sustain


I've played against WW many times with Yorick and I've honestly never lost that lane. So no, WW does not fit in as a counter against Yorick.

Well Cho'Gath got awesome sustain and he is actually able to finish Yorick off thanks to his ultimate. But it's most likely a no kill lane.

Pre LvL 6 Yorick won't be able to 1vs2 and end up successful. His dmg is to low before manamune and he is kinda weak. 1vs1 However in lane is a nightmare for anyone who is up against Yorick.
And if you die when you are ganking Yorick 2v1 you clearly are doing something wrong.
1
[-]
Jimbo Finelay (11) | July 9, 2012 2:12am
i liked it cause its good and all but I think that your yorick choice of counters ain't the best, for example high CC like supresses are really good against him to stop him from using his spells, as his spells do the most dps, also early ganks might kill him but he can also kill you 1v2 easily by himself even through he may die he is sure to take you out as well.
renekton is good and galio is good but cho gath im not to crazy about, maybe warwick to keep up in levels of sustain
1
[-]
GoldenEagle1476 | July 8, 2012 9:03pm
Very nicely done. The only thing I might add is that Vlad is not a good counter pick for Ziggs. Ziggs is my main champ, and honestly I think Vlad is one of the easier champs to lane agianst. Instead of him, I would put Kass, Morgana, Cassiopeia, or Fizz. I agree with Ahri, and especially Malzahar, he's probably the best counter pick for Ziggs.
1
[-]
SoulofApocalpse | July 8, 2012 1:43pm
Awesome Guide!

Voted as soon as I saw the structure of this guide.

Although I'm not quite sure about this, I'd add Morgana and Kassadin as a counter to Twisted Fate:

Morgana
Her passive, Soul Siphon, and her E, Black Shield, both deny a big chunk of TF's harassment.
She has a good damage combo with Dark Binding- Tormented Soil, and with Soul Shackles at lvl 6;
She has good wave clearing capabilities with Tormented Soil, which allows her to keep up with CS.

Kassadin
The harass he puts out from lvl 1 to 5 is comparable to TF's;
When he gets lvl 6, he is able to put out a big burst combo, that forces TF out of lane, or puts up a free kill on the table, if he redoes the combo.

Also, in case of Veigar, I'd add LeBlanc and Kassadin has a counter to him, because of their harass pre-lvl 6 and their nuking capability after lvl 6.

And under the Swain's category of counterpicking, Ahri and AP Tristana are really good. Ahri as decent poke damage, and, at level 6, easilly baits out Swain's ultimate, forcing him to waste mana; and Tristana has an awesome range, a reduced healing skill, and a 100%-assured-to-kill combo, if you know what you're doing.

In case I'm wrong, please correct me.

Congratulations on this guide.

Hoping for the best,
SoulofApocalypse.
1
[-]
wcoolx (3) | July 5, 2012 9:52am
Enjoying this guide but I think that ap Sion should be added as a counter to Leblanc. Powerful pusher and quite bulky with shield.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | June 25, 2012 10:30am
@Paranoia

Thx mate, I'll see waht i can do, but it might take a few days before I'll update.
1
[-]
Paranoia0 | June 25, 2012 6:42am
I'm back with more suggestions!

But first, you should take Nidalee's tip of "Don't chase" and put it to Singed. :P

On a more serious note, I'd like to suggest that junglers with a weak early game like Skarner, Maokai and Rammus have counters of invaders like Lee Sin, Mundo and Shyvanna. Especially Maokai, since he is very blue-buff dependent and killing him early would set him back alot.

It also seems that Fiddlesticks, Vladimir, Mundo and Swain are missing out some healing-reduction characters such as Miss Fortune, Tristana and Katarina.

An aggressive early game against Darius would end up either in your death or his. Mostly yours, since his early game damage is insane.

I also do not think that high-sustain bruisers could really counter Yorick, as he has just as high life sustain with Omen of Famine and his mana issues are mostly solved after he gets a philo stone or tear of the goddess.

Trundle is also not bad against kiters. With Contaminate, he reduces CC and increasing his own movement speed. He'll then use his Pillar to slow you and go up to you and beat you with a club. A good Trundle would have either bought TriForce or Frozen Mallet to keep with you till he bites you to death.

However, I feel that Shaco and Lee Sin should earn the title of Trundle-killer, as he can Deceive/Resonating Strike past Trundle's Pillar, and has enough early game damage to set Trundle behind by invasion (Trundle as Lee Sin counter? What is this I don't even). By the time Trundle gets back from that, Lee Sin would be too tanky to kill and not even Master Yi can catch Shaco.

Well, your TL;DR instinct probably kicked in since paragraph 3, but screw that. Heard that extensive elaboration is good for your soul. :P

I look forward to more updates on this guide, and I want to see those Draven counters coming along! XD
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | June 24, 2012 10:37pm

This is a nice quick-reference guide for countering! I haven't really used it yet, but there's a lot of stuff covered here. I like it.

(Up-Vote =3)


Thx, Yeah It's pretty straightforward but it lacks some information..
1
[-]
Amazing Monkey (59) | June 23, 2012 9:09pm
This is a nice quick-reference guide for countering! I haven't really used it yet, but there's a lot of stuff covered here. I like it.

(Up-Vote =3)
1
[-]
WhiteJarate (22) | June 19, 2012 11:13am
For counterpicks to Lulu, put down Blitzcrank and Alistar. Mechanics include tanky and high CC
1
[-]
Hutshi (3) | June 14, 2012 2:45am
FalseoGod wrote:

Swain is countered by Kata? Wah? I virtually never lost to one and assume they're feed once I see them :| Dodge daggers, let her shumpo into full combo. Pop E's and Q's, save W's.

IMO, Xerath and Vitor are more dangerous (if Viktor is good like GrandmistressD)


Then you clearly haven't played vs a good Katarina. And also I believe she is mentioned mostly because of her healing reduction, but a Katarina should be able to win vs Swain in lane.
1
[-]
Hutshi (3) | June 14, 2012 2:43am
Luckysena wrote:

Very nice guide, but I have a question. I am an Orianna player and would like to know if she's meant to be played in ranked/competitive games considering you have her as a counter to no one. I excel against pretty much anyone, but I assume it's just because I have more skill.


Orianna is one of the most versatile mid champions, she is strong vs most champions but can't be considered a strong counter vs them even though she mostly has the advantage due to her kit.
I played in a top 10 team on EuNE as support and we always had Orianna mid.
1
[-]
FalseoGod (305) | June 13, 2012 4:38pm
Swain is countered by Kata? Wah? I virtually never lost to one and assume they're feed once I see them :| Dodge daggers, let her shumpo into full combo. Pop E's and Q's, save W's.

IMO, Xerath and Vitor are more dangerous (if Viktor is good like GrandmistressD)
1
[-]
Luckysena | June 13, 2012 4:02pm
Very nice guide, but I have a question. I am an Orianna player and would like to know if she's meant to be played in ranked/competitive games considering you have her as a counter to no one. I excel against pretty much anyone, but I assume it's just because I have more skill.
1
[-]
Musselhead (1) | June 13, 2012 12:00pm
Is there a more extensive countering guide somewhere? This one is too concise and incomplete. Please point me to a more elaborate guide.
1
[-]
OMGWhatShouldITake | June 13, 2012 11:51am
Awesome guide! But it would be cool if you could add why it counters that champion. Maybe i just overread it but... i am pretty newb to this game... sometimes i don't really understand why it counters that champion exactly but yea... anyway still upvote!
1
[-]
SpartaDeathAngel (46) | June 12, 2012 4:06pm
This guide has HELPED ME ALOT IN RANKED GAMES! +1
1
[-]
LordAdrian (25) | June 11, 2012 5:38pm
Cool guide, I will try to use this when I play ranked next time!
1
[-]
cooper56 (28) | June 10, 2012 7:02pm
Some things out date... like nid you assume there ap high dmg and burst?

what if there ad brusier nid which is more popular than ap mow.
1
[-]
cooper56 (28) | June 10, 2012 7:02pm
Some things out date... like nid you assume there ap high dmg and burst?

what if there ad brusier nid which is more popular than ap mow.
1
[-]
cooper56 (28) | June 10, 2012 7:02pm
Some things out date... like nid you assume there ap high dmg and burst?

what if there ad brusier nid which is more popular than ap mow.
1
[-]
cooper56 (28) | June 10, 2012 7:02pm
Some things out date... like nid you assume there ap high dmg and burst?

what if there ad brusier nid which is more popular than ap mow.
1
[-]
cooper56 (28) | June 10, 2012 7:02pm
Some things out date... like nid you assume there ap high dmg and burst?

what if there ad brusier nid which is more popular than ap mow.
1
[-]
Razormaul (13) | June 10, 2012 3:31pm
@ cainenghis, did you ever play as riven vs a caitlyn in lane?If you go for a cs you will be harrased like crazy.
1
[-]
Razormaul (13) | June 10, 2012 3:30pm
You should add to the kassadin part that most ad champs counter him hard.I love going gp,pnatheon,tryndamare or lee sin vs him and he can't do a thing.
1
[-]
eye-opener (16) | June 9, 2012 4:22am
A very nice Guide, but some Counters are wrong, still a lot other are good^^
+1
1
[-]
cainenghis | June 8, 2012 5:57am
Gragas and Caitlyn do NOT counter Riven, Jax does, sorry man :/
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | June 6, 2012 11:22pm
Xiron wrote:

You know, if you're not posting pics of yourself, half naked somewhere here on MOBAFire, you're actually a pretty nice guy :3
+1


I see what you did there. Sorry dude, No****!
1
[-]
Xiron (112) | June 4, 2012 5:35pm
You know, if you're not posting pics of yourself, half naked somewhere here on MOBAFire, you're actually a pretty nice guy :3
+1
1
[-]
Phil15 (23) | June 3, 2012 5:24pm
Nice really helpful
+1
1
[-]
Ashley R0se (1) | June 2, 2012 4:45pm
Shared you today :)

And I NEVER do that.

Someone on the NA forums wanted a countering guide and this immediately came to mind.
It's been immensely helpful to me, personally. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
1
[-]
feike | May 30, 2012 8:59am
Slappiz wrote:



Great idea, I'll try to add it in the future.. When I feel I got the time for it :)


Ctrl+f my friends
1
[-]
serisho | May 28, 2012 2:20pm
swain
counter items: morello's evil tome active
1
[-]
Baldir (2) | May 28, 2012 9:23am
Will the author be adding a Darius section anytime soon?
1
[-]
Yaeger | May 25, 2012 12:40am
Yo Slappiz, please add Fizz to Fiora counters. You just can't auto attack him and his Playful/Trickster cancels the Fiora ult.
1
[-]
rayluch | May 24, 2012 3:12pm
It's a pain in ther *** to look all the characters in order to see a character's counter. If you could put also the ones who get countered by the character in the same place it would be much more easy.

Thank you for your effort.
1
[-]
A Chubby Baby (290) | May 22, 2012 6:26am
i am actually kinda this very useful.
1
[-]
Paranoia0 | May 18, 2012 2:17am
Amumu should be a counter for Cho'Gath. He has high enough health, able to tank Feral Scream, Rupture and Feast even in a combo. He also has Despair which goes of % of max health, and has a gap closer that can be aimed when Cho'Gath is using Rupture, as the animation requires Cho to stay still. Vorpal Spikes also proc Amumu's Tantrum passive.

I was also thinking of Lux as a Xerath counter, as Lux's range is pretty damn long, and her skillshots will hit. Even though none of the CC's actually work (slows/snares) if Xerath is in Locus, the damage still applies and the range of Lux's ult is even beyond Xerath's. Her shield can also block early game harass.

I'd also like to add in the fact that normal kiting doesn't work on Singed. It requires a certain amount of damage and movement reduction on Singed to kite him, as he is tanky. Singed would just use his Mega Adhesive behind you, preventing you from kiting. he would then proceed the run circles around you. Mega Adhesive is one of the best slows in the game, so Singed can play that game too. Teemo still applies though, as he can just drop a mushroom to slow you enough to get out of the Mega Adhesive, then just run with Move Quick.
1
[-]
FenrisWolf | May 17, 2012 1:39pm
For greaves i think Armor/magic Pen would be a great counter item since his passive gives him bonus armor/MR while in combat. This is the whole reason he is so hard to lane against in a duo lane.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | May 16, 2012 12:37am
7Striker7 wrote:

You should change Brand vs Kassadin. Let me explain:

When you play Brand against Kassadin, you CAN counter him. Its quite difficult and you need to be experienced player (I also recommend to play with smart casts against Kassadin - that needs also playing smart and being experienced a bit). Before level 6 you can zone him with your E, he can't be dangerous to you. After reaching level 6, stay a bit back but in range of his R+Q+W combo. Spam your abilitties if needed to stack his W and to make him sure that he "can" attack you. When he will decide to do so, he will start with his R. It makes noise before he will really teleport, you also can see that he stops for a while. When you see that he is just about to Riftwalk before you, use your E+Q on area where he needs to Riftwalk to have you in his Qs range. He Riftwalks just into your E+Q combo, then use your W. Sometimes he will have enough time to use his Q before you land stun on him, then you will trade about 1/6 of your hp for about 2/3 of his hp. If he will really Riftwalk just into stun, he won't do anything to you. Good player who can play Brand well is counter for Kassadin. He can't kill you and you can farm. maybe you will loose some ranged minions... But thats much better then getting owned by Kassadin like almost all other mid champs are.

BTW upvoted, GJ mate.


Thx, Intresting I'll have to try this, it seems legit.
1
[-]
7Striker7 (2) | May 15, 2012 11:40am
You should change Brand vs Kassadin. Let me explain:

When you play Brand against Kassadin, you CAN counter him. Its quite difficult and you need to be experienced player (I also recommend to play with smart casts against Kassadin - that needs also playing smart and being experienced a bit). Before level 6 you can zone him with your E, he can't be dangerous to you. After reaching level 6, stay a bit back but in range of his R+Q+W combo. Spam your abilitties if needed to stack his W and to make him sure that he "can" attack you. When he will decide to do so, he will start with his R. It makes noise before he will really teleport, you also can see that he stops for a while. When you see that he is just about to Riftwalk before you, use your E+Q on area where he needs to Riftwalk to have you in his Qs range. He Riftwalks just into your E+Q combo, then use your W. Sometimes he will have enough time to use his Q before you land stun on him, then you will trade about 1/6 of your hp for about 2/3 of his hp. If he will really Riftwalk just into stun, he won't do anything to you. Good player who can play Brand well is counter for Kassadin. He can't kill you and you can farm. maybe you will loose some ranged minions... But thats much better then getting owned by Kassadin like almost all other mid champs are.

BTW upvoted, GJ mate.
1
[-]
Johnny Reimar (1) | May 12, 2012 5:21am
I stopped reading after this:
Quoted:
Malphite
Counter picks: Irelia


This is outright wrong.
1
[-]
AbsolutnyKoToK | May 12, 2012 4:19am
Hey guy, add varus
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | May 9, 2012 11:35pm
INomNoobs wrote:

Eventually, could you list who (insert champion name) counters, not just who counters (said champion)? I know it would be monotonous, but if you could eventually do it (this must be a very hard guide to fill, with the myriad of champions, and the buffs, nerfs, remakes, and new champs.)
Anyways, really appreciated this guide. +1 and favorite.


Great idea, I'll try to add it in the future.. When I feel I got the time for it :)
1
[-]
INomNoobs (2) | May 9, 2012 5:55pm
Eventually, could you list who (insert champion name) counters, not just who counters (said champion)? I know it would be monotonous, but if you could eventually do it (this must be a very hard guide to fill, with the myriad of champions, and the buffs, nerfs, remakes, and new champs.)
Anyways, really appreciated this guide. +1 and favorite.
1
[-]
Lionelo | May 7, 2012 11:20am
you should add irelia to counter alistar.
I find irelia as a great counter. she can keep close to him with her dash, even if he kicks her back, and the true damage is immense against his ult.
1
[-]
MazaiiC | May 6, 2012 11:32pm
Ahri will die vs brand
1
[-]
MazaiiC | May 6, 2012 11:26pm
Veigar got no chanse vs vladimir
1
[-]
RisenApathy (1) | May 5, 2012 12:41am
Jax seems like a HUGE counter to Twisted Fate.
1
[-]
Paranoia0 | May 3, 2012 10:46pm
+1
I find this a really great guide for people going into ranked games, or even veterans who are playing against unfamiliar champions.

Though I'd like to add that Talon is a pain for Xerath to lane against, due to his gap closer and very annoying ult. Other skill shot based champions, like Ahri, also effectively counter him because Locus of Power makes it impossible to avoid anything.
Xerath should also be added to Annie's counters due to his insane range with Locus of Power and general full nuke at said range.
On a side note, Teemo should be a Singed counter because his poison is really annoying and you can never get him inside your own Poison Trail.
All kiters should be put as Trundle counters. :P
1
[-]
Rampe69 | April 30, 2012 1:51pm
Shouldn't Trundle be atleast a bit a Yorick counter, if he's passive procs when the ghouls die.
1
[-]
glizdka (28) | April 28, 2012 4:15am
Perfect idea for a guide! Although I'll vote after reading it entirely as currently I don't have time for that currently =D
1
[-]
notmistyped | April 28, 2012 1:38am
You should put Mordekaiser as counter to LeBlanc, she cant do anything to him due to his shield (especially when he gets hextech) and he pushes lane like crazy so she loses a tower if she goes ganking
1
[-]
CouldRay (1) | April 27, 2012 4:36pm
Strong guide. Repped brah, mirin.
1
[-]
Syther Blade (32) | April 26, 2012 5:36pm
OMG I LOVE YOU!
Also for the AP ex, is it not updated or are there no counters. Prob the latter right
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | April 25, 2012 11:35pm
Mikelone wrote:

I am being a bit confused here. In the text you post Ryze as a counter to leblanc, but you also post le blanc as a counter to ryze? you might want to fix that if its a mistake, or give a good explanation as to how that works. :)

Really great guide though use if for every draft game with the team. Thanks for making it! :D


It's a mistake :P Neither of them should be considered a counter against each other. It's a even match up with advantage LeBlanc early game, and Ryze Late game.

I'm glad that you like it. :)
1
[-]
Mikelone | April 25, 2012 10:47am
I am being a bit confused here. In the text you post Ryze as a counter to leblanc, but you also post le blanc as a counter to ryze? you might want to fix that if its a mistake, or give a good explanation as to how that works. :)

Really great guide though use if for every draft game with the team. Thanks for making it! :D
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | April 23, 2012 1:54am
Malin wrote:

kanske liiiiiteeee


Awww, gulligt
1
[-]
Malin (34) | April 23, 2012 1:34am
kanske liiiiiteeee
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | April 23, 2012 1:16am
Malin wrote:

bebis


U jelly? ;)
1
[-]
Malin (34) | April 23, 2012 12:46am
bebis
1
[-]
XFFKarnage | April 22, 2012 5:31pm
I would just like to point out something for your gragas counterpicks-You list that any silence or burst counters him.

I dont see this as ever being a problem for him when i play, his passive heals him, and any silence he has flash for then e out when hes not silenced. Also Bansh. Veil is horrible against him, just go straight mr, He can just e or q once to get it off. The best counter you have for him is veigar since its a stun not a silence combo.

Dont know if this helps or not, just taking from my experiences playing with him and against him.

Edit: +1 for the help regardless of that one champion :)
1
[-]
Drachen | April 19, 2012 7:55pm
For Karthus, IF you have Nocturne for the spell shield why no Sivir?
1
[-]
Shizukani (48) | April 18, 2012 2:31am
Counter picks to Malzahar: Did someone forget Kassadin and LeBlanc?
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | April 17, 2012 1:33am
unome2well wrote:

Probably one of the most useful guides I have used in a while!

I've noticed in my gameplays that Kennen is a strong counter-pick against Singed!
Counter items including Abyssal Scepter and using your auto-attack/ W passive as an advantage in lane.

+1


AP Kennen is strong against all kind of none sustained melee champions.
I personally like AD Kennen on top lane since he is a heavy counter vs melee champions like Renekton, Udyr, Fiora, Singed etc.
1
[-]
unome2well (2) | April 16, 2012 3:28pm
Probably one of the most useful guides I have used in a while!

I've noticed in my gameplays that Kennen is a strong counter-pick against Singed!
Counter items including Abyssal Scepter and using your auto-attack/ W passive as an advantage in lane.

+1
1
[-]
ThaKinetic (32) | April 16, 2012 8:04am
Riven doesn't counter teemo well. He will run away from her, slow her with shrooms, he got ranged pokes, and most important, his ****ing blind. A skilled teemo will deny riven hard. Just IMO.
1
[-]
barfcat (3) | April 14, 2012 1:24pm
My two cents. Malphite counters melee champs that start their combo with a speed buff. These include: Garen, Rumble, and Volibear. There may be others but I think malphite counters these champs very effectively.

Nasus counters malphite because malph can't do enough damage to zone out nasus with his lifesteal.
1
[-]
Lux0ry | April 14, 2012 10:40am
U got one mistage m8, LeBlanc dosent counter Brand because:

* When brand bursts down leblanc her clone appears then GG with UltY
* When morgana jumps on u, u can just stun her GG again :) But still



HUGE +1
1
[-]
Drachen | April 11, 2012 10:11pm
Champs that name starts with every letter other then Q XD
1
[-]
Eternal Void (5) | April 9, 2012 12:59pm
At Galio you really have to add Udyr as a counter. Trust me Galio was my main a long time and Udyr counters him best of all champs in tf. All other champs have to use ability to stop Galios ult which is impossible when you taunts them first with ult, but When Udyr is in a bear stance Galios ult will pretty much interrupts itself by taunting Udyr.
1
[-]
CrasherXY | April 5, 2012 1:11pm
Talon Counter Pick is Lee Sin
1
[-]
Zeedr (7) | April 3, 2012 1:32pm
+1 A W E S O M E.
1
[-]
Acid Reigns (49) | April 1, 2012 10:21pm
Soraka needs to be added to Urgot counters :3
1
[-]
iStandAloney (4) | April 1, 2012 10:19pm
Gangplank doesn't have healing reduction anymore bro, fix that and ill believe the guide's freshness is ideal :D
1
[-]
albableat (147) | March 31, 2012 2:25pm
Hi again :) Some random thoughts...

Warden's Mail is a great counter to Irelia, AS reduction is a ***** ( Lee Sin and Malphite are great against her as well, not sure why you list Irelia as a counter to Malph)

Udyr is one of the best counters to Galio in terms of cancelling his ult. Bear Stance all day long =P

Both Kat and Fizz are great counters to Swain.

Trundle is sooooooo fcking good vs. Yorick in top lane. Free heals due to Decompose
1
[-]
Blowfeld (108) | March 31, 2012 2:19pm
I wonder why you put Akali as counterpick to Xerath and not Galio who comes to my mind directly...
1
[-]
AndrewMcGillicutty | March 31, 2012 2:14pm
this guide is awesome. ur doing a great job, but for some of them i feel like it would be great if you elaborated more on why its a good way to counter a specific champion. keep up the good work :D
1
[-]
CasterMaster (316) | March 28, 2012 12:11am
Akali doesn't counter Xerath, but Ahri does. Also for Swain I think Fizz is the best counter for him =) (Also I don't believe Garen counters Jax)
1
[-]
CommX (20) | March 27, 2012 2:30pm
Really good idea for a guide here!

Hope you finish each toon and keep updated from patch to patch.
1
[-]
risadito | March 26, 2012 7:45pm
LeBlanc counters veigar pretty bad, she can just jump in and out of his stuns + she can out burst him with Q+R combo before he even get his comboes going, you should add LB to veigar counter. Also consider putting arhi on veigar counter to, since she can also give him a hard time.
1
[-]
Fulundry (68) | March 26, 2012 8:44am
This is a dangerous guide to write because EVERYONE is going to have different opinions, but I think you did a pretty good job. The one thing I can't really let go...GP is not a good counter for shen at all. I've played a lot on both sides of that matchup, and Shen is too healthy for GP to harass down, and even if GP can cleanse out of the taunt, She still does much better sustained damage. With Shen I start with ~770 health and 50 armor; GP can't do much about that.

Otherwise, it all looks pretty good. I'll check back from time to time to see when it's completed. +1
1
[-]
bassiebaan (1) | March 25, 2012 7:53am
Maybe for tips to counter Volibear get ignite
1
[-]
iStandAloney (4) | March 23, 2012 4:51pm
Vayne can get countered by cait, well, that's what i usually do. A cait with AD runes that starts with doran's blade completely dominates vayne. The pokes are too strong, specially when cait's passive is up.

EDIT: I suppose a vayne with cloth5 and armor runes/masteries could counter the counter but i don't see that often. :D
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | March 21, 2012 3:20am
Tibbledorf wrote:

nice counter to yorick in lane would be Trundle (only because you can forget his harass thanks to your passive).. but i've never seen a Trundle in lane..


I disagree, Trundles passive is not enough to withstand Yorick's constant harass, sure he can farm a bit better then most against him, but there is no way he could beat Yorick in lane. Cho'Gath would be a much better choice against Yorick imo, with high sustain passive, great pushing abilities and high damage burst with his ultimate.
1
[-]
Tibbledorf (1) | March 21, 2012 1:40am
how can you outlane Yorick with Nasus ? ok you can farm your Q on ghouls and you have lifesteal but other than that.. you have no way to close the gap on yorick unless you're willing to take his whole harass combo, and even through lifesteal you can't heal all the damage you get from ghouls.. he's not gonna kill you easily but it's gonna be quite hard for you to kill him too.. nice counter to yorick in lane would be Trundle (only because you can forget his harass thanks to your passive).. but i've never seen a Trundle in lane..
1
[-]
soelra#9830 (3) | March 20, 2012 1:15pm
Ryze counters viegar as he has no Ap.
1
[-]
BeefMuscu | March 15, 2012 4:11am
And olaf counters Rammus cuz of anti-cc and True damage
1
[-]
BeefMuscu | March 14, 2012 3:36am
Really good initiation, I find my self have a lot of trouble agaisnt Yorick when I'm solotoping with Teemo (AS/AP). But when I have a Nasus, It's like 99% win cuz I'll put my "E" when he comes for last hit.
1
[-]
Tibbledorf (1) | March 13, 2012 9:19am
A smart Irelia will just sit back and farm under turret timing her Q in between Turret shots.
I played her for 2 days straight and learned to do that.. Just farm farm farm farm if you're in a tight match against Olaf's or guys like that.. Her awesome sustain lets her forget about enemy harass and if you play under turret your jungler should be smart enough to come and allow you to burst down your opponent quickly ( lol so hard if your jungler is Alistar :D )
1
[-]
Zarq29 (5) | March 12, 2012 4:25pm
IMO another champs that counter WW are Nunu and Vlad.. big sustain and constant harass
I`ve founnd WW really weak on top lane against tanky-ap-champs, rumble and morde can outzone him pretty well too

About Trist, i think that Alistar can hurt her because she must think it twice before trying to finish someone with the jump. Also, she can do a very nice combo with him as lane partner.

Against vlad, fiddle is perfect! sustain for avoiding vlad`s constant harass, fear and silence, and draining even when vlad is in "pool-mode-on"
1
[-]
TheAlibert007 (1) | March 12, 2012 11:33am
Irelia doesnt counter Malph on lane. Its infact a pretty close matchup, BUT Malph will win the dmg trades because Irelia wont be able to hit him with her true dmg because he slows her atkspeed so heavy
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | March 11, 2012 12:14pm
Thanks for all feedback guys, I'll try to finish the guide ASAP. Been working a lot lately and been trying do climb the elo laddder on my spare time. :)
1
[-]
Senac (3) | March 11, 2012 4:20am
Dis iz cool, dawg.

I'd say that a counter to Teemo is a gap closer. I find Riven quite a good counter as she's able to close the gap, shield the first amount of damage and attack even though she's blinded. And when she's no longer blinded her passive will shred the cute little guy. That's just my experience.
TBH I didn't read every single comment, but it wasn't in the guide so I felt like it was my duty to give my 2 cents.
1
[-]
UsernameSayWha (14) | March 8, 2012 11:39am
Good guide. Only thing I saw was to build armor against Mundo? In the current meta he is a jungler. Which means he gets his w first which does magic damage. His cleave ALSO does Magic Damage. The only reason you would build armor is if he was full-on DPS Mundo. Which ofc nobody builds. Just nit-picks.
1
[-]
espr | March 5, 2012 10:53pm
nice guide, i wanted to see this for a while now. BUT I want to see it finish to the max potential.

also u should add malzahar at kassadin counters. he kinda rappes him :D
1
[-]
Kirat | March 3, 2012 7:21am
+1

good luck with this guide
btw for shaco add garen with his heavy silence he cant escape by using Q
1
[-]
shooninjo (3) | March 3, 2012 4:33am
PsiGuard wrote:


Doubt it. Udyr has a spammable shield and tons of sustain. I don't think Nunu would have nearly enough damage to significantly harass him.


I never said that Nunu would kill Udyr, which is very unlikely. However a counter is not only about killing an enemy champion, but to nullify his/hers abilities to function with the rest of the team. Everyone knows, and I am sure that you know as well, that Udyr is easily kited. Since Udyrs mostly tries to run towards the enemy carry and wreck havoc on them Nunu will often be able to slow down Udyr, same goes for Ashe.
1
[-]
PsiGuard (881) | March 2, 2012 6:07pm
shooninjo wrote:

you could add nunu as a counter to udyr as the constant slow keeps udyr down

Doubt it. Udyr has a spammable shield and tons of sustain. I don't think Nunu would have nearly enough damage to significantly harass him.
1
[-]
shooninjo (3) | March 2, 2012 6:05pm
you could add nunu as a counter to udyr as the constant slow keeps udyr down, same goes for ashe. An another thing to note also is that Katarina can counter Xerath during lane phase as Katarina can Shunpo stright over Xeraths Q. Otherwise good. +1
1
[-]
Stormhill | March 2, 2012 8:10am
A counterpick to cass and orianna is also Kattarina becouse of her shunpo so the misses their ultis! her shunpo togheter with her W is a great comp for dodging aoe and skill shots!
1
[-]
memar1 | February 27, 2012 11:30am
Have you seen this spreadsheet?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqzKxo_kFrKtdF9HZVYxd25xQlR6OGhJNk04bWJxV2c&type=view&gid=0&f=true&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

That was the counter guide I was using, perhaps it can help give some ideas. I'm not sure what that author's email or name is though. Good luck!
1
[-]
BoroFreak | February 23, 2012 9:58am
Lovely guide.

You should add in Malphite to countering Wukong. Malph can E the monkey after he dashes in, reducing his attack speed, negating the same bonus from the dash itself. Not mentioning the extra armor that Malphite has, which lowers the potential damage from Wukong's Q that increases armor pen. And Malph's Q will slow the ever-growing MS of monkey's ult or just the common slow to help an ally gank.

Furthermore, i believe that Kennen should be a counter to Akali, since he can just nuke her Shroud (pun not intended), or if she decides to engage on Kennen, he has the option to stun her and just run away if not feeling confident in 1v1-ing her. But that's just my opinion, i would be glad if i got proved wrong :)
1
[-]
Kurt_Ottman (74) | February 20, 2012 11:46am
You should add that Yorick can be countered by Galio. Since his best damage early game is also his healing power, getting magic resist will make it useless for Yorick to use it to trade blows, as it won't do any damage, thanks to Galio's need for magic resist anyway. Galio will also have insane kiting power, as Yorick is pretty slow, and only has that one weak slow to catch up.

So add Galio as a counter to Yorick.
1
[-]
ZenPlague (4) | February 20, 2012 9:57am
I was searching for a guide like this ^^ thanks

+1
1
[-]
dumbfoundead (4) | February 19, 2012 1:05pm
hey just something i noticed, yorrick is a good counter for pantheon if theyre both in solo lane
1
[-]
albableat (147) | February 17, 2012 9:09am
+1 to the guide! Keep up the good work :) I'd love to see this finished.
1
[-]
albableat (147) | February 17, 2012 9:08am
Lee Sin vs. Akali? Top lane?

Hexdrinker+ Mercury's Treads and Lee Sin wins every single fight.
He has a ton of damage without even bothering about early game damage items. While Akali has to build AP to be effective.

=> her damage to Lee falls down dramatically, even though she's investing into ton of AP, while she still takes full damage from Lee Sin.

Also, Lee has higher damage/mobility all the way till 6.

Twilight Shroud is also not a factor, since Lee Sin has stealth detection.

If you ask me about equally skilled Akali-Lee matchup, Lee wins in 95% of cases.
1
[-]
Rajner (8) | February 17, 2012 4:29am
Well man... I don't understand one thing.

You wrote that Pantheon is a good counter vs Shen... And Shen is good counter vs Pantheon. So who counters whom? Double counter? ;)

If I can give you a tip as an experienced Shen player - ninja is a counter vs all harassers on solo lane thanks to his Feint. Although Pantheon is able almost to dominate everybody on solo top, Shen counters him easily (he is not slaying him, but he can farm with no trouble on the lane). Consider this, keep up the good work.
1
[-]
jhoijhoi (1894) | February 16, 2012 3:28pm
+1, interesting guide. Very useful information, great idea, now just get to finishing it :)
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 13, 2012 2:05am
It's always skill based, you can win a lane with soraka vs gp.. But Nidalee and Riven are good laners vs GP, because they don't have a hard time farming against him, and great ability's to compete with GP's constant poke..
Good Riven players should be able to absorb most of GP's harass with her shield..
1
[-]
Khazem (186) | February 12, 2012 4:55am
DuffTime wrote:

Also, you have Nidalee and Riven listed as counters to GP. ****ing lawl? Those are skill match ups, I **** on every Nidalee and every Riven with GP, I think GP has a clear advantage in both of those lanes.


Kinda feel like I have to comment on this D: I agree with the Riven part but Nidalee is in fact a hard counter to Gangplank in lane :>
1
[-]
Xenasis (164) | February 12, 2012 4:45am
Lee's Q will have far more damage than her at level 1. Though it's debatable who will win past 6, Lee should easily win 1-5.

"I can agree that Lee Sin can get rid of an R charge with his R, but i don't believe that he can "always deny her stealth.""
It's better than not denying her stealth at all.

"Lee Sin CAN'T W > R, he has to Q > W > R."
Yes he can.
Let's say this situation -
Ashe was R'd to by Akali
Lee Ws to Ashe, and Rs her away. Sorted.


"Akali can't Q>R>AA someone dead until very late in the game, but I believe that she should be able to focus down a carry and either die after, or put out some significant damage afterwards."
He can kick her away and whilst she's in the air late game she will be absolutely destroyed. She usually has to use at least 2 Qs to kill someone so there's your window of opportunity. Also, your carry can flash away in that time.


"I honestly think that Akali wins duels, or at least goes pretty much even."
If the Lee Sin isn't very good then likely.
At level 1 -
Akali's Q - 45/45 (+.4)
Lee's Q - 50/50 (+.9) + Execution damage + Flurry
It stays this way, too.
At rank 5 Qs -
Akali - 145/145 (+0.4)
Lee - 170/170 (+0.9+ + Execution damage + Flurry

Lee should NOT lose duels. Akali can't burst for all that much more anyway, as you can see.


Also, 8% spell vamp doesn't "win sustain hard".
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 11, 2012 9:58pm
Xenasis wrote:
Lee Sin beats Akali at duels.


Doesn't win at level 1, or level 2, or level 3, don't know about 4/5, but she wins at 6.

Anything past 6 is determined by actions taken in lane, not champion choice.

Xenasis wrote:
Lee can R her away from carries (causing her to waste time and a valuable ult stack) in team fights, and always deny her stealth. Yes, any champion can buy an Oracle's, but Lee gets it for free. Saving ~2k on your teams' Oracles is good.


I can agree that Lee Sin can get rid of an R charge with his R, but i don't believe that he can "always deny her stealth."

The gold advantage has some merit, but really, i view all of that kind of thing as more of a "check" than a counter.

Xenasis wrote:
Lee can W > R. He also has E to slow/reveal her. Your carry lives. That's why Lee counters her in team fights. Your delusions bring you to think that Akali can just Q > R > AA anybody dead, when really this isn't the case against any competent carry.


Lee Sin CAN'T W > R, he has to Q > W > R.

If he has to land Q, then he can't always W > R.

Akali can't Q>R>AA someone dead until very late in the game, but I believe that she should be able to focus down a carry and either die after, or put out some significant damage afterwards.

So, it makes it harder for akali to R your carry, I would argue that it doesn't deter akali any more than some damage potential, or actual CC like Ryze or Sion would offer.

Xenasis wrote:
Lee WILL win any 1v1 vs Akali. He can duel her at any stage in the game. Akali can out burst him, of course, but Lee can stop her from getting away and return that damage (and more).


I honestly think that Akali wins duels, or at least goes pretty much even.

I'd have to do the math, she wins @ level 1-3 and 6 though.

Xenasis wrote:
Lee vs Akali in lane -
Lee wins duels (BIG FACTOR)
Lee has more support for ganks (E, W, R) (BIG FACTOR)
Lee has more mobility (W, Q vs Akali's R)
Akali wins short bursts
Akali wins early sustain

3 (big) points vs 2.


Lee loses duels (big)
Lee has more support for ganks i agree. (big)
Lee has more mobility. (medium)
Akali DESTROYS short bursts. (small)
Akali wins early sustain hard. (small)

Looks like 1 big 1 medium vs 1 big 2 small to me.

Seems about the same honestly.

This is kind of a silly argument anyways.
1
[-]
Xenasis (164) | February 11, 2012 4:39pm
I'd like to take two terms from competitive pokemon that I've always loved. Counter, and check. They're extremely relevant to this situation.

Counter - Undeniably always beats certain pokemon in practically all situations.

Check - It can beat it a lot of the time but you shouldn't rely on it.

I view Lee as a counter to her. You view him as a passable check.



Lee Sin beats Akali at duels and denies her shroud when he gets ganked.

Lee can R her away from carries (causing her to waste time and a valuable ult stack) in team fights, and always deny her stealth. Yes, any champion can buy an Oracle's, but Lee gets it for free. Saving ~2k on your teams' Oracles is good.

Lee can W > R. He also has E to slow/reveal her. Your carry lives. That's why Lee counters her in team fights. Your delusions bring you to think that Akali can just Q > R > AA anybody dead, when really this isn't the case against any competent carry.

Lee WILL win any 1v1 vs Akali. He can duel her at any stage in the game. Akali can out burst him, of course, but Lee can stop her from getting away and return that damage (and more).

Lee vs Akali in lane -
Lee wins duels (BIG FACTOR)
Lee has FAR more support for ganks (E, W, R) (BIG FACTOR), ganking a lane with your Lee vs Akali is far easier than ganking one with your Akali vs their Lee. What tools does she have to set up ganks?
Lee has more mobility (W, Q vs Akali's R)
Akali wins short bursts
Akali wins early sustain

3 (big) points vs 2.


Even if you do only view Lee as a check, it's still better than not having Lee.
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 11, 2012 2:11pm
Xenasis wrote:



Not sure if serious.


Well, firstly, in order to properly debunk this myth, we have to define "Counter".

My proposal is as follows

Counter: A counter to a champion, is a champion that they can not lane against(read, get denied or killed against), or have greatly reduced team fight presence (in the case of Alistar vs Cho'Gath, or Katarina/Nunu vs Leona), and will reduce your chances of being effective. Also, If that character's ability to counter the enemy champion is not fairly unique, then it isn't necessarily a counter unless that method is more effective than it's counterparts. (such as Lee Sin's E not being as effective as an Oracle's Elixir.)

In the laning phase, I feel that Lee Sin simply does not have the tools to deny or kill akali. Her shroud really isn't the power of her laning phase.

In team fights, Lee Sin has no ability to deny akali's team fight role, of massive damage, again, shroud isn't the majority of her strength in team fights. (Also, ANY character in the game can buy Oracles and effectively nullify her shroud's invisibility effect.)

Lee Sin might kill akali, but akali is still very effective because by the time lee sin kills akali, akali has already killed your ranged DPS and possibly your AP carry depending on which direction the game is going.

In a 1v1 in any stage of the game, Akali wins. In a burst trade at any stage of the game, Akali wins.

I really don't see how Akali vs Lee Sin isn't simply a skill match up in lane, and I can't see how akali loses in the team fight department.
1
[-]
Xenasis (164) | February 11, 2012 11:28am
Temzilla wrote:

If you really think that Lee is a counter to Akali, then maybe you shouldn't write a guide about counters.



Not sure if serious.
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 11, 2012 11:18am
Slappiz wrote:



The "famous" Duff, I dont like your attitude kid.
Well if you can't see that Lee is a counter to Akali than you really shouldn't play LoL.
Maybe that's why you are a elo-hell player?


If you really think that Lee is a counter to Akali, then maybe you shouldn't write a guide about counters.

If you really think Duff is an Elo Hell player, maybe you should look up his season 1 rating.

Slappiz wrote:
I clearly state in the introduction that I published it so I can get some good/bad response for more valid information to this guide.


That's all well and good, but you are blatantly refusing to remove Lee Sin as a counter to Akali, that removes a lot of the guide's validity.


You have to split Kennen section on AP Kennen and AD Kennen, because lot of ppl starts playing Kennen the AD way and all you wrote that counters Kennen counters only the AP ones. so you miss how to beat AD Kennen in this guide.


Tristana and Caitlyn imo.

Everyone else you can either easily trade with, or they are skill shot based, and you win if you dodge things.
1
[-]
Eternal Void (5) | February 11, 2012 10:56am
You have to split Kennen section on AP Kennen and AD Kennen, because lot of ppl starts playing Kennen the AD way and all you wrote that counters Kennen counters only the AP ones. so you miss how to beat AD Kennen in this guide.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 10, 2012 12:23pm
DuffTime wrote:


You're adamantly stating that Lee Sin is a counter to Akali. That's just not true.

Also, you have Nidalee and Riven listed as counters to GP. ****ing lawl? Those are skill match ups, I **** on every Nidalee and every Riven with GP, I think GP has a clear advantage in both of those lanes.

Also, you have Jax, Teemo, Vladimir listed as counters to Tryndamere. LMFAO. Not even gonna waste my time arguing that load of ****. All of those champions get crushed.

Guides like this are a waste of time, you're always going to have bad information presented, and a lot of that bad information is going to be argued in circles and you'll even believe half of it, and people who read this guide are gonna believe horse **** like "Jax counters Tryndamere" which is completely non beneficial.


The "famous" Duff, I dont like your attitude kid.
Well if you can't see that Lee is a counter to Akali than you really shouldn't play LoL.
Maybe that's why you are a elo-hell player?

PS. I clearly state in the introduction that I published it so I can get some good/bad response for more valid information to this guide.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 10, 2012 10:02am
Slappiz wrote:

Of course he counters Akali, the stealth detection skill will tear Akali apart when there is a teamfight or gank. No stealth for Akali = easy kill :)


Don't agree.

Jovoo wrote:

Also for Nasus counter items take Randuin's Omen, it's a good item against him.


Not terribly good vrs him, to be honest.

Xenasis wrote:

If Lee loses trades with Akali then he's a bad Lee.


What the **** lol.

Slappiz wrote:

Amen on that!


Well this guide just lost all it's credibility.

You're adamantly stating that Lee Sin is a counter to Akali. That's just not true.

Also, you have Nidalee and Riven listed as counters to GP. ****ing lawl? Those are skill match ups, I **** on every Nidalee and every Riven with GP, I think GP has a clear advantage in both of those lanes.

Also, you have Jax, Teemo, Vladimir listed as counters to Tryndamere. LMFAO. Not even gonna waste my time arguing that load of ****. All of those champions get crushed.

Guides like this are a waste of time, you're always going to have bad information presented, and a lot of that bad information is going to be argued in circles and you'll even believe half of it, and people who read this guide are gonna believe horse **** like "Jax counters Tryndamere" which is completely non beneficial.
1
[-]
Deltamon (1) | February 8, 2012 7:42am
Meh, I have been meaning to do this forever myself, and was just about to start it.. Only to notice that someone has made it like week ago.. D:

Anyways, while googling if someone had made counter pick guides yet, I found this from TSM website: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?hl=en_US&key=0AqzKxo_kFrKtdF9HZVYxd25xQlR6OGhJN%20k04bWJxV2c&hl=en_US&f=true&noheader=true&gid=0

Should help you fill up most of the blanks.. That spreadsheet is pretty informative, but I don't like the style of it.. So I find guide like this way more helpful..

Anyways, hope you can fill it up soon.. So I can take out my A4 paper and start writing some stuff down. :D

Oh and also as a little contribute that I couldn't find from any lists, Yorick counters Tryndamere pretty well. (Trynda has generally really hard time killing Yorick, and in 1vs1 lane Yorick can keep stealing life and harash him quite much, without much of risk of getting hit back)
1
[-]
Pølsemanden (142) | February 8, 2012 2:43am
Very nice guide.

Add randuins omen to irelia counters.


Tip for tryndamere: In lane, bait his ulty and make him vulnerable before going full engage.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 6, 2012 11:53pm
imri500 wrote:

Great work on this guide! You should add a ziggs part. I played him for around 20-35 games now and I think it would be said that he is weak too champions who can heal very quickly or out-range him. And a champ with quick feet is zigg's worst nightmare! some would say he can be CC'ed but really, if played right his W would counter almost any form of CC. Anyways keep up the good work and I wish you the best of luck.

- Thanks for reading this comment and have a fantastic day!


Thx! ye, I've been busy the last few days so the guide haven't been updated but I'll take that in mind when I add Zigg's.
1
[-]
imri500 | February 6, 2012 7:23am
Great work on this guide! You should add a ziggs part. I played him for around 20-35 games now and I think it would be said that he is weak too champions who can heal very quickly or out-range him. And a champ with quick feet is zigg's worst nightmare! some would say he can be CC'ed but really, if played right his W would counter almost any form of CC. Anyways keep up the good work and I wish you the best of luck.

- Thanks for reading this comment and have a fantastic day!
1
[-]
OldBen (14) | February 4, 2012 2:40pm
Voted +1
^
Second part of comment was eaten by Adele.
1
[-]
OldBen (14) | February 4, 2012 2:36pm
Nice work, I found some interesting informations. Must try it in next draft :)
And personally, I'd add Rumble as counter to Nasus and few other melee solo-toppers. That flamethrower makes farming nearly impossible.

Of course +1.
1
[-]
Xipherr | February 4, 2012 10:18am
Voted +1
Amazing guide

This will b really useful as long as its kept up to date as much as possible.

The only thing i would like to see is a list of champions each champion is gd against too (ie what not to pick vs that champion)

Gd work cant wait till its finished
1
[-]
ShotgunShell45 | February 4, 2012 10:18am
Voted +1
A nice guide on countering hard champs.
1
[-]
Totb | February 3, 2012 2:43am
counterpick for cass, you could add orianna, it work amazingly well if you have a good mana regeneration to constantly poke her
1
[-]
Generekxx | February 2, 2012 6:47pm
Volibear counters- anyone with a dash> akali, riven, sofore. counter mechs r slows stuns dashes. counter items r frozen heart randuins n thornmail, ex-calling for passive. tip, wait til his passive goes off b4 goin 1v1, usually by harrassing him> this is why yorick dominates volibear.
1
[-]
holyoatmeal (2) | February 2, 2012 3:15pm
Voted +1
Great guide I've been dying to see for a while!
1
[-]
Jovoo (55) | February 2, 2012 12:33pm
Coming along really good mate. If you got any questions on Nasus, feel free to PM me.
Oh, and I too can't w8 for when it's all set and done xD
1
[-]
zomgpwnedanoob (5) | February 2, 2012 12:05pm
Voted +1
+1
1
[-]
zomgpwnedanoob (5) | February 2, 2012 12:04pm
Very well done. Cant wait to see how it looks when you finish it:D +1 from me
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 2, 2012 8:25am
87alphaone wrote:

To Jax, can I?

You wrote:
Counter picks: Garen, Talon, Warwick Garen maybe, Talon no, WW no (dodge and stun gives him very few options to attack), YORICK!! His little bastards disables Jax farm, constantly hurts him.
Counter mechanics: CC, ranged harass CC agree, ranged harass with LONGER range than Leap strike range, ok? That is important. If you harass and he can jump to you. You always lose this trade.
Counter items: Randuin's Omen, Frozen heart Depends on his build. AD Jax is pretty easily countered by Thornmail or Frozen heart, AP Jax with Frozen Heart, Banshee's Veil and Hybrid? Almost impossible to counter: you build armor - he kills you with spells, you build MR - he kills you with autoattacks, you build both - you have no damage and he just ignores you.
Tips: Dont feed!

Jax is good to counter (at lane) Trynda, Nasus and more ofc. He is good vs Akali, cause of AoE stun (just stand inside her ring and stun).

Hope It helps a bit, you have +1 from me.


Thx dude, I'll update :)
1
[-]
87alphaone (100) | February 2, 2012 7:45am
Voted +1
^^ Thx.
1
[-]
87alphaone (100) | February 2, 2012 7:44am
To Jax, can I?

You wrote:
Counter picks: Garen, Talon, Warwick Garen maybe, Talon no, WW no (dodge and stun gives him very few options to attack), YORICK!! His little bastards disables Jax farm, constantly hurts him.
Counter mechanics: CC, ranged harass CC agree, ranged harass with LONGER range than Leap strike range, ok? That is important. If you harass and he can jump to you. You always lose this trade.
Counter items: Randuin's Omen, Frozen heart Depends on his build. AD Jax is pretty easily countered by Thornmail or Frozen heart, AP Jax with Frozen Heart, Banshee's Veil and Hybrid? Almost impossible to counter: you build armor - he kills you with spells, you build MR - he kills you with autoattacks, you build both - you have no damage and he just ignores you.
Tips: Dont feed!

Jax is good to counter (at lane) Trynda, Nasus and more ofc. He is good vs Akali, cause of AoE stun (just stand inside her ring and stun).

Hope It helps a bit, you have +1 from me.
1
[-]
Xzephyr | February 2, 2012 7:04am
quick Comment Gragas doesn't necessarily get countered by morg because of his range and aoe but not necessarily countering her, i would say it's an even lane
1
[-]
Taneren (177) | February 2, 2012 6:57am
PM me when this is finished and I might grant it a scout point :)
1
[-]
koksei (162) | February 2, 2012 12:56am
Voted +1
this guide is actually really helpful - can't wait to see it's finishing touches ^^
+1

you should add nida as a counter to gp
1
[-]
lobotomija | February 2, 2012 12:50am
Voted +1
+1
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 2, 2012 12:33am
Sunli Min wrote:

oh and for Renekton, I would add Pantheon and Riven. I find on him Panth is the biggest counter of all, next is GP then Riven.


Thx, I'll add them.
1
[-]
Sunli Min (19) | February 2, 2012 12:20am
slydunan wrote:

I like the idea, but a whole lot of the information is wrong or not useful.
I would focus the guide around the current meta dte late game etc.

Therefore, I suggest making at least two categories: laning counters (in a theoretical meta where its solo top, solo mid, dual bot, jungle) and general counters.
Using this method, although janna wouldnt counter amumu in lane or jungle, she is still a general counter.

And as I said before, I noticed a lot of mistakes or missing counters.
Cassiopeia- kennen counters as well. She is also about even with brand if not stronger, depending on skill level.
Irelia- All those listed do not counter irelia in lane. In fact, the only two heroes that come close to countering irelia is tiger udyr and olaf. However, general counters for her is anyone with suppression.


In lane Cass>Kennen, I know because I play them both. But it is a close matchup.

As for Irelia, yes Garen and the others do counter her. She can still lane without feeding but they deny her and keep her down, there for counter her. They make it so she cant go for a lasthit without paying the price
1
[-]
Sunli Min (19) | February 2, 2012 12:18am
oh and for Renekton, I would add Pantheon and Riven. I find on him Panth is the biggest counter of all, next is GP then Riven.
1
[-]
Sunli Min (19) | February 2, 2012 12:16am
Voted +1
Really good work, keep it up!
1
[-]
Acid Reigns (49) | February 1, 2012 10:54pm
GP should be added to both Morgana, and Kassadin for counters. They're both anti mages, that rely on a strong CC during exchanges. GP does phys damage, and can W out of cc. Now thinking about it, a well played Sivir could have the same effect as well. Though I doubt it would be as effective.

He beats Nasus pretty hard too, due to being able to shed wither.

Also, Sion is good against Nidalee in lane. He has his stun to slow down her insane mobility, and his shield is good against her spear.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 10:09pm
slydunan wrote:

I like the idea, but a whole lot of the information is wrong or not useful.
I would focus the guide around the current meta dte late game etc.

Therefore, I suggest making at least two categories: laning counters (in a theoretical meta where its solo top, solo mid, dual bot, jungle) and general counters.
Using this method, although janna wouldnt counter amumu in lane or jungle, she is still a general counter.

And as I said before, I noticed a lot of mistakes or missing counters.
Cassiopeia- kennen counters as well. She is also about even with brand if not stronger, depending on skill level.
Irelia- All those listed do not counter irelia in lane. In fact, the only two heroes that come close to countering irelia is tiger udyr and olaf. However, general counters for her is anyone with suppression.


About Kennen countering Cassio im not sure, I play duo ranked with a really good Casssio player and I've never seen him have any problems with Kennen.

I was thinking of those categories, but it's nothing that I'll prioritize atm.

I'll see what I can do about Irelia.
1
[-]
Eternal Void (5) | February 1, 2012 9:49pm
Oh Thats what i was waiting for so long. You absolutely have to find out and put in how to counter Rumble (He is so impossible to handle top if he is good at least a little)
1
[-]
slydunan (37) | February 1, 2012 6:56pm
Voted +1
I like the idea, but a whole lot of the information is wrong or not useful.
I would focus the guide around the current meta dte late game etc.

Therefore, I suggest making at least two categories: laning counters (in a theoretical meta where its solo top, solo mid, dual bot, jungle) and general counters.
Using this method, although janna wouldnt counter amumu in lane or jungle, she is still a general counter.

And as I said before, I noticed a lot of mistakes or missing counters.
Cassiopeia- kennen counters as well. She is also about even with brand if not stronger, depending on skill level.
Irelia- All those listed do not counter irelia in lane. In fact, the only two heroes that come close to countering irelia is tiger udyr and olaf. However, general counters for her is anyone with suppression.
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 1, 2012 5:38pm
Voted +1
Didn't really want to down vote the guide itself, was just making a point.
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 1, 2012 4:37pm
Xenasis wrote:

Flat MR blues, likely armour yellows as standard - possibly MR, ArP marks, AD/ArP quints depending on if you want to aim for early/late game

Combined with Q it can. Definitely.

Why would you ever want to max your W? It's used for escapes/setting up ganks. I used it as a comparison as to how easily Lee can escape ganks compared to Akali, especially when Lee is in the lane, Akali doesn't even have stealth.

Not sure if serious

Q would like to say hello, too. You fail to take into account the fact that even though it is a larger range, Akali doesn't take on a 1x1 range square. You WILL hit her if you're in the middle.

You forget Q. This also relies on Lee having absolutely no prior knowledge of where Akali was as she went into the shroud, which never happens. Also as I mentioned before, Akali isn't a 1x1 range square, nor does anyone have instant reactions.

Irrelevant. Skillshots aren't an argument against a champion. Galio counters Kass mid. He out-duels Kass, has a better mid game, though Galio's abilities are all easily avoidable, Kass' aren't. I'd also like to see Akali dodge a Q at point blanc range, too.

Mercury Treads, Warmogs will definitely suffice. Counters to burst are health and resistance. Not just resistance. Lee ALWAYS builds Warmogs anyway.

In a perfect world where you never die this argument may be valid. If 5 oracle users die, you lose 2k gold, and likely the game because of that throw away, when your support (or jungler) buys Oracles for its main purpose, ward clearance, anyway. Both of which are underfarmed and die easily.

You're not even counterpicking for the E, she's outlaned by Lee, that's just an added bonus.



I don't know, i just think that Q can be dodged/creep blocked, and that Lee Sin relies too heavily on Q, and hopes that akali doesn't start the game with 65 armor.

Is Q+AA+Q+AA for akali, versus Lee Sin: Q projectile+Q leap+AA+AA a good comparison?
1
[-]
Xenasis (164) | February 1, 2012 3:59pm
(Responses made in bold)

Temzilla wrote:

What would you rune versus an akali as lee sin?


Flat MR blues, likely armour yellows as standard - possibly MR, ArP marks, AD/ArP quints depending on if you want to aim for early/late game

E can't reliably reveal akali.


Combined with Q it can. Definitely.

Lee's W isn't going to do jack **** vs akali unless you level it up, and at that point, you can't kill her.

Why would you ever want to max your W? It's used for escapes/setting up ganks. I used it as a comparison as to how easily Lee can escape ganks compared to Akali, especially when Lee is in the lane, Akali doesn't even have stealth.

Also, Akali won't be able to kill Lee if he builds properly. He can destroy her in any way he likes.



A good lee will beat a bad akali, but no lee will beat a good akali.

Not sure if serious


That's the thing though.

Akali W has a larger effective range than Lee Sin's E.

Q would like to say hello, too. You fail to take into account the fact that even though it is a larger range, Akali doesn't take on a 1x1 range square. You WILL hit her if you're in the middle.



The stealth circle is 300, and you are stealthed for a half a second after leaving (With Boots 2, that makes the effective range 490), and Lee Sin's W has a 350 range on the stealth reveal.

If played correctly, akali can simply dodge E every single time.

You forget Q. This also relies on Lee having absolutely no prior knowledge of where Akali was as she went into the shroud, which never happens. Also as I mentioned before, Akali isn't a 1x1 range square, nor does anyone have instant reactions.


Lee Sin has nothing against akali, ALL of his abilities are avoidable, none of Akali's abilities are as lee sin.

Irrelevant. Skillshots aren't an argument against a champion. Galio counters Kass mid. He out-duels Kass, has a better mid game, though Galio's abilities are all easily avoidable, Kass' aren't. I'd also like to see Akali dodge a Q at point blanc range, too.


Also, his itemization against her is terrible.

Mercury Treads, Warmogs will definitely suffice. Counters to burst are health and resistance. Not just resistance. Lee ALWAYS builds Warmogs anyway.


Like i said, Oracles is 400g, no reason to counter pick a stealth ability.

In a perfect world where you never die this argument may be valid. If 5 oracle users die, you lose 2k gold, and likely the game because of that throw away, when your support (or jungler) buys Oracles for its main purpose, ward clearance, anyway. Both of which are underfarmed and die easily.

You're not even counterpicking for the E, she's outlaned by Lee, that's just an added bonus.

1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 3:49pm
tehAsian wrote:

Malzahar doesn't counter Kennen :l
Ken's ult will interrupt Malz's if used in time, and the timing isn't even HARD, because once you see that Null Zone, click R and you're pretty much safe.


Good point, but I think I'll need some more feedback on this particular counter before I update it :)
1
[-]
tehAsian (247) | February 1, 2012 3:46pm
Voted +1
Was going to make something like this for helping Solo Queuers, but you beat me to it.

Still good though, so +1 :3
1
[-]
tehAsian (247) | February 1, 2012 3:46pm
Was going to make something like this for helping Solo Queuers, but you beat me to it.

Still good though, so +1 :3
1
[-]
tehAsian (247) | February 1, 2012 3:44pm
Malzahar doesn't counter Kennen :l
Ken's ult will interrupt Malz's if used in time, and the timing isn't even HARD, because once you see that Null Zone, click R and you're pretty much safe.
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 1, 2012 3:43pm
Xenasis wrote:
If Lee loses trades with Akali then he's a bad Lee. Lee is pretty much the best melee duellist in the game if equally farmed.

He should win the lane, as I say, especially when taking into account how easy it is to gank a lane with Lee on your team, and his E will reveal Akali and deny her escape. Lee's W isn't countered so easily.

Either you've had bad experiences with this match up as Lee Sin yourself or couldn't imagine it panning out, but I'd assure you, a good Lee will beat a good Akali. Late and early. No exceptions.


What would you rune versus an akali as lee sin?

E can't reliably reveal akali.

Lee's W isn't going to do jack **** vs akali unless you level it up, and at that point, you can't kill her.

A good lee will beat a bad akali, but no lee will beat a good akali.

Xenasis wrote:
This isn't just about laning. The E is perfect for her late game, even if Akali is, say, mid and Lee is top or jungle, he counters her late without a doubt.

I'd still argue he has a pretty good skill set for countering her in lane too, especially when factoring in jungler ganks.


That's the thing though.

Akali W has a larger effective range than Lee Sin's E.

The stealth circle is 300, and you are stealthed for a half a second after leaving (With Boots 2, that makes the effective range 490), and Lee Sin's W has a 350 range on the stealth reveal.

If played correctly, akali can simply dodge E every single time.

Lee Sin has nothing against akali, ALL of his abilities are avoidable, none of Akali's abilities are as lee sin.

Also, his itemization against her is terrible.

Like i said, Oracles is 400g, no reason to counter pick a stealth ability.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 3:34pm
Xenasis wrote:



If Lee loses trades with Akali then he's a bad Lee. Lee is pretty much the best melee duellist in the game if equally farmed.

He should win the lane, as I say, especially when taking into account how easy it is to gank a lane with Lee on your team, and his E will reveal Akali and deny her escape. Lee's W isn't countered so easily.

Either you've had bad experiences with this match up as Lee Sin yourself or couldn't imagine it panning out, but I'd assure you, a good Lee will beat a good Akali. Late and early. No exceptions.


Amen on that!
1
[-]
Xenasis (164) | February 1, 2012 3:33pm
Temzilla wrote:

How is a character, who is BAD against a champion, a counter to that champion?

Oracle's Elixir, is 400g, Vision ward is 125g.

Any champion, in the entire game, can buy it.

IF you need to counter akali's stealth, buy an orcales, don't play lee sin.

Udyr, Warwick, Ryze, Soraka, Kennen, Irelia, Cho'Gath, Nunu.

Those are "counters" to akali, you have to beat her in lane, there is 0 reason to pick a champion in order to counter her W.

Pretty much everyone else either loses trades, or dies at level 6 versus her.


If Lee loses trades with Akali then he's a bad Lee. Lee is pretty much the best melee duellist in the game if equally farmed.

He should win the lane, as I say, especially when taking into account how easy it is to gank a lane with Lee on your team, and his E will reveal Akali and deny her escape. Lee's W isn't countered so easily.

Either you've had bad experiences with this match up as Lee Sin yourself or couldn't imagine it panning out, but I'd assure you, a good Lee will beat a good Akali. Late and early. No exceptions.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 3:28pm

I think this will be really helpful. i know i've had trouble counter picking. This will definitly help


Thank you for vote!
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 1, 2012 3:27pm
Slappiz wrote:

This ain't only about laning, if Akali needs to be focused in teamfight i cant really think of any more suitable skill than Lee Sin's E skill...
And if akali is picked she will most likely be mid or top and Lee Sin is a perfect jungler for good ganks against her W. So I really don't see where you are going with this.


How is a character, who is BAD against a champion, a counter to that champion?

Oracle's Elixir, is 400g, Vision ward is 125g.

Any champion, in the entire game, can buy it.

IF you need to counter akali's stealth, buy an orcales, don't play lee sin.

Udyr, Warwick, Ryze, Soraka, Kennen, Irelia, Cho'Gath, Nunu.

Those are "counters" to akali, you have to beat her in lane, there is 0 reason to pick a champion in order to counter her W.

Pretty much everyone else either loses trades, or dies at level 6 versus her.
1
[-]
iwillblessu (10) | February 1, 2012 3:26pm
Voted +1
I think this will be really helpful. i know i've had trouble counter picking. This will definitly help
1
[-]
Xenasis (164) | February 1, 2012 3:17pm
Temzilla wrote:

Lee Sin doesn't have a kit that is effective against akali.

Most akakli counters either can counter build her damage, or can kill her.

Lee Sin's Q is unreliable, especially when Akali gets her ultimate.

His W doesn't shield nearly enough, or give him enough life steal to ignore her damage, and he doesn't have many good MR items to build that scale well with his kit.

His E is almost useless against her as a laning tool.

The ONLY advantage that Lee Sin has over akali is that he is an auto attack champion, and can buy lifesteal, instead of relying on skills, and needing to buy spell vamp.


Akali's strength is NOT in her W, it's in her Q, E, and R.

In lane, there is no reason an Akali should auto lose to Lee Sin.

Lee Sin is a VERY good duelist, that is the only reason he has a chance in hell against Akali.


This isn't just about laning. The E is perfect for her late game, even if Akali is, say, mid and Lee is top or jungle, he counters her late without a doubt.

I'd still argue he has a pretty good skill set for countering her in lane too, especially when factoring in jungler ganks.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 3:14pm
Temzilla wrote:



Lee Sin doesn't have a kit that is effective against akali.

Most akakli counters either can counter build her damage, or can kill her.

Lee Sin's Q is unreliable, especially when Akali gets her ultimate.

His W doesn't shield nearly enough, or give him enough life steal to ignore her damage, and he doesn't have many good MR items to build that scale well with his kit.

His E is almost useless against her as a laning tool.

The ONLY advantage that Lee Sin has over akali is that he is an auto attack champion, and can buy lifesteal, instead of relying on skills, and needing to buy spell vamp.


Akali's strength is NOT in her W, it's in her Q, E, and R.

In lane, there is no reason an Akali should auto lose to Lee Sin.

Lee Sin is a VERY good duelist, that is the only reason he has a chance in hell against Akali.


This ain't only about laning, if Akali needs to be focused in teamfight i cant really think of any more suitable skill than Lee Sin's E skill...

And if Akali is picked she will most likely be mid or top and Lee Sin is a perfect jungler for good ganks against her W. So I really don't see where you are going with this.
1
[-]
Jovoo (55) | February 1, 2012 3:13pm
Temzilla wrote:



Lee Sin doesn't have a kit that is effective against akali.

Most akakli counters either can counter build her damage, or can kill her.

Lee Sin's Q is unreliable, especially when Akali gets her ultimate.

His W doesn't shield nearly enough, or give him enough life steal to ignore her damage, and he doesn't have many good MR items to build that scale well with his kit.

His E is almost useless against her as a laning tool.

The ONLY advantage that Lee Sin has over akali is that he is an auto attack champion, and can buy lifesteal, instead of relying on skills, and needing to buy spell vamp.


Akali's strength is NOT in her W, it's in her Q, E, and R.

In lane, there is no reason an Akali should auto lose to Lee Sin.

Lee Sin is a VERY good duelist, that is the only reason he has a chance in hell against Akali.

I've found out, that a good Akali player vs a good Lee Sin player, 80% of the time lee sin will be the victor. Your points are solid, yes, and you might be right now that [[lee sin is getting nerfed. But before, he could stand up to Akali.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 3:08pm
Jovoo wrote:

Also i would recommend someone like Akali or Gragas as Nasus counters, if they are good, your Q will be well under farmed, but if their not, it will be the opposite. So keep that in mind.

Also for Nasus counter items take Randuin's Omen, it's a good item against him.

And I would put early-to-mid game about getting under-farmed, cuz he can still come back rather quickly.


Ty, I'll add it :)
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 1, 2012 3:06pm
Slappiz wrote:



Of course he counters Akali, the stealth detection skill will tear Akali apart when there is a teamfight or gank. No stealth for Akali = easy kill :)


Lee Sin doesn't have a kit that is effective against akali.

Most akakli counters either can counter build her damage, or can kill her.

Lee Sin's Q is unreliable, especially when Akali gets her ultimate.

His W doesn't shield nearly enough, or give him enough life steal to ignore her damage, and he doesn't have many good MR items to build that scale well with his kit.

His E is almost useless against her as a laning tool.

The ONLY advantage that Lee Sin has over akali is that he is an auto attack champion, and can buy lifesteal, instead of relying on skills, and needing to buy spell vamp.


Akali's strength is NOT in her W, it's in her Q, E, and R.

In lane, there is no reason an Akali should auto lose to Lee Sin.

Lee Sin is a VERY good duelist, that is the only reason he has a chance in hell against Akali.
1
[-]
NinjaGinge (90) | February 1, 2012 3:03pm
Voted +1
This could go good places.

id be willing to help fill in on twitch with some collab from the other top twitch maker
1
[-]
Jovoo (55) | February 1, 2012 3:02pm
Also i would recommend someone like Akali or Gragas as Nasus counters, if they are good, your Q will be well under farmed, but if their not, it will be the opposite. So keep that in mind.

Also for Nasus counter items take Randuin's Omen, it's a good item against him.

And I would put early-to-mid game about getting under-farmed, cuz he can still come back rather quickly.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 2:55pm
Jovoo wrote:

I think that with some help, this guide could be the next big thing, nicely done.


Thx dude! :) Yeah, I will need a bunch of help to make this a solid guide. Luckily for me it seems like a few people are interested to help me out.
1
[-]
Jovoo (55) | February 1, 2012 2:53pm
Voted +1
I think that with some help, this guide could be the next big thing, nicely done.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 2:48pm
Xenasis wrote:

Really good guide. Can't wait for it to be finished!

I'll bet that Dufftime (I think he was on the GP side) will have a word or two to say about GP countered by Riven though. For some reason that match up sparks many debates on this site.


Yeah, im not 100% sure either. But if it's proven that riven ain't a good counter for GP i'll change it :)
It's still a early stage for this guide and I bet i'll change a bunch of things in it before it's finished.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 2:45pm
Zell wrote:

Snappy, oh you must add Alistar to Galio counters and Kassadin doesn't counter Cassiopeia infact pre-level 6 he can't contest for farm at all.


I'll update :) thx for good response.
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 2:44pm
Temzilla wrote:

Lee Sin doesn't counter akali, it's a skill match up.


Of course he counters Akali, the stealth detection skill will tear Akali apart when there is a teamfight or gank. No stealth for Akali = easy kill :)
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 1, 2012 2:38pm
Lee Sin doesn't counter akali, it's a skill match up.
1
[-]
Xenasis (164) | February 1, 2012 2:29pm
Voted +1
Really good guide. Can't wait for it to be finished!

I'll bet that Dufftime (I think he was on the GP side) will have a word or two to say about GP countered by Riven though. For some reason that match up sparks many debates on this site.
1
[-]
Zell (42) | February 1, 2012 2:28pm
Snappy, oh you must add Alistar to Galio counters and Kassadin doesn't counter Cassiopeia infact pre-level 6 he can't contest for farm at all.
1
[-]
Hutshi (3) | February 1, 2012 2:25pm
Voted +1
Awesome!
1
[-]
Bryun (309) | February 1, 2012 2:17pm
+1

I like this, make sure all your info is valid though. Seems good to me so far.
And you should turn on comment-to-vote. :)
1
[-]
Slappiz (60) | February 1, 2012 2:15pm
Taneren wrote:

+1, Looks really good and this is something I have been dying to see in ages :D You should finish it before publishing tbh ^^

One thing annoys me:


DONT TELL THEM THAT! XD I must admit that this was quite accurate. Lately i've been finding myself winning over Kassadin's and Morgana's. (LB still a challenge if she's good).

But that tip about trying to steal blue at 7:00 (Around level 6 halfway 7) is perfect spotted. You must be playing Anivia yourself? If this blue is stolen from her, she can have a difficult game without it for a while. By level 6-7 I usually push the lane then head to a lane and ganks. If that blue is stolen, it stops my gank and reduces my farm.

Anyways good job, but you should finish it before publishing next time :D


Thx dude :)
No I don't play Anivia. I main Janna in ranked and the reason I wrote it is beacuse i Always counter ward the blue buff if my team spawns at bottom nexus ;).

Yeah I know, but I wanted some response so I can improve it before i put all to much effort in it.
1
[-]
Taneren (177) | February 1, 2012 2:11pm
+1, Looks really good and this is something I have been dying to see in ages :D You should finish it before publishing tbh ^^

One thing annoys me:

Slappiz wrote:
Anivia
Counter picks: Kassadin, Morgana, Leblanc
Counter mechanics: Silence, Mobility, Spellshield
Counter items: Early Boots, Magic Resist
Tips: Try to steal "her" blue at 7:00, don't tower dive her if she have passive ready.

DONT TELL THEM THAT! XD I must admit that this was quite accurate. Lately i've been finding myself winning over Kassadin's and Morgana's. (LB still a challenge if she's good).

But that tip about trying to steal blue at 7:00 (Around level 6 halfway 7) is perfect spotted. You must be playing Anivia yourself? If this blue is stolen from her, she can have a difficult game without it for a while. By level 6-7 I usually push the lane then head to a lane and ganks. If that blue is stolen, it stops my gank and reduces my farm.

Anyways good job, but you should finish it before publishing next time :D
Mobafire

General Guides

League of Legends

More Guides

The Charts


Featured

30 Days

All Time

Popular
Top Guide by Champion