Click to open network menu
Join or Log In
Mobafire logo

Join the leading League of Legends community. Create and share Champion Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

Not Updated For Current Season

This guide has not yet been updated for the current season. Please keep this in mind while reading. You can see the most recently updated guides on the browse guides page

x
Udyr Build Guide by Toastwaffle

AD Offtank Enough Lies! How Jungle Udyr Actually Works! (S3)

AD Offtank Enough Lies! How Jungle Udyr Actually Works! (S3)

Updated on January 20, 2013
4.7
7
Votes
11
Vote Vote
League of Legends Build Guide Author Toastwaffle Build Guide By Toastwaffle 7 11 19,203 Views 20 Comments
7 11 19,203 Views 20 Comments League of Legends Build Guide Author Toastwaffle Udyr Build Guide By Toastwaffle Updated on January 20, 2013
x
Did this guide help you? If so please give them a vote or leave a comment. You can even win prizes by doing so!
Vote
Comment

You must be logged in to comment. Please login or register.

I liked this Guide
I didn't like this Guide
Commenting is required to vote!
Would you like to add a comment to your vote?

Your votes and comments encourage our guide authors to continue
creating helpful guides for the League of Legends community.

New Comment

You need to log in before commenting.

1
Naz84 | March 29, 2013 3:39pm
I main Udyr and I had my doubts about this (the doran's start - I didn't use the rest of the build because I have one that works pretty well for me otherwise). I found myself playing tiger Udyr and clearing my jungle with 4 pots left, so I figured I might as well give something new a shot even if it's counter-intuitive.

I tried it in a few games and it worked great. I was at 80% health after clearing the jungle, which was more than enough to turn into a bear, run up and whack someone, tiger dot them, and let the ADC mop up. The clear time wasn't noticeably different from a machete, and I had a little more success than usual doing early ganks. I probably wouldn't take it against Xin or a tougher jungler who can start where ever he wants, but I was able to kill the Shaco that invaded my red easily enough. So.. not always ideal, I suppose, but not a bad way to go either. I'll probably do it more often.
1
Unawesomeness (4) | December 22, 2012 6:22pm
Just saying, you want a Wriggle's Lantern no matter who you are jungling with, it is always helpful, as the procs help, but in the argument that the proc's are useless, you want wards for when you are killing Baron or when the other team is possibly killing Baron and your team has no wards, you want to ward over the wall and with a flash you could steal baron... Just saying
1
sirell (400) | December 22, 2012 3:52pm
Heh. I wondered what you might say in response.

You missed my point. Examine this, for instance.

'I am of the opinion that the Earth is flat.' Does that make your opinion valid? Nope. So all this idea of 'political correctness' where 'one view is as valid as another' is pretty much bs. Of course I have authority to claim someone else is wrong, especially when the evidence proves otherwise. Your own video, all voters and all better builds say you are wrong, yet somehow you persist with the belief (however false it actually is) that you are somehow right.

Is my opinion on Rocket Science remotely valid? Nope. I don't know diddly squat about that. Am I entitled to speak on carpentry? Nope.

I don't ask you to bow down to my 'superior intellect', but merely to use your own intellect. Everything tells you that you are wrong, yet you persist with the belief (however false) that you are correct.

And indeed, my attitude here is not humble, but that was not what I said. I can acknowledge when I am clearly wrong, which is what is meant. For example, on my Blitzcrank guide, I originally built an item which I argued was so core that it couldn't be replaced. When strong evidence and public opinion was presented against this, I acknowledged my mistake, changed the build, thanked and credited the people who brought it to my attention.

So yes, I am unrelenting. But it just so happens that I am also correct and supported by evidence. You, on the other hand, presented evidence which supposedly strengthens your position, but actually didn't. If you, however, presented some evidence (and better theorycrafting and reasoning), I would gladly admit my mistake. But judging at the present patch of the game and the votes on your guide, however, it seems unlikely. ;)

Good day. :)
1
Toastwaffle | December 20, 2012 5:17pm
I guess that means I get the last word.

Thank you random internet person for coming here with your arrogant self-righteousness to teach me, another random internet about humbleness. I totally understand that given we are all entitled to opinions and none of them are any better than others, that you are also entitled to have the authority to claim someone else is wrong.

We are digressing quite a bit aren't we from the original points of the build? I feel you are more disgusted with the fact that I claim my idea is the best and how I won't bow down to your superior intellect rather than the concept of the idea itself. I hate the fact that you seem like a closed-minded prick whose many points is actually based on a single point "I LOVE ME SOME SUSTAIN IN THE FIRST FEW LEVELS". Remember, I said SEEM.

There is not a chance you are going to humble me, or make me eat my words in my own guide. It's ironic that you should suggest someone else to be humble when you are clearly just as unrelenting to prove you're right yourself.
1
sirell (400) | December 20, 2012 4:56pm
It will end. I probably won't make another comment after this. I've downvoted, put my view out there and supported it. I'm pretty content to leave it at that.

Much of what you just replied is pretty much digression from your original points, which is just another way of saying that you can't admit you're wrong. Not to mention a lot of what you just said was also rubbish...

Here's something you should learn, and it humbled me when I learned it:

Just because you are entitled to your opinion does not make your opinion worthwhile or even remotely valid.

Maybe you should compare yourself to other guides. You'll learn something.

There's no need to try something in a build that's counter-intuitive. Would you even think about trying a Tear of the Goddess on Shen? I exaggerate, but I think you see my point. Starting an item that doesn't account for counter-jungling or has minimal sustain is a counter-intuitive thing to do in the jungle, and what are you doing it for? Because of ganking, you say (and it's not even ideal for that).

And maybe next time, you'll do your research before making a build (incidentally, how is your last sentence anything whatsoever to do with disregard?). Maybe you'll feel like testing what other people suggest in the feedback of your build before saying it's garbage. Maybe you'll watch the videos you posted up as proof and realise they say the very opposite thing that you say.
1
Toastwaffle | December 20, 2012 4:37pm
I guess this will never end...

You will gain health from continuously using turtle, not break even.

Ganking is always more useful even if there's no kills because pressuring lanes is always going to help your laners. Whether this be to blow flash, some cooldowns, or even take a chunk of health.

If a lane is frozen in the middle of the river the gank is fair game. If all your lanes are extended then you should probably be trying to predict where to countergank. By walking right into a ward you are forcing your opponents to back up from their farm and to play a bit more dfensively.

Early fights involving the jungler will often dictate the rest of the game. You want to take advantage of that.

Sometimes junglers will waltz into your jungle and take your wraiths, but usually counterjungling occurs if they can keep track of where you are; you revealed yourself through ganks or they warded. Lvl 2 Red ganks are based on the assumption that they can predict your path; there are ways to counter that. If they took your wraiths it was probably because you were ganking. You won't be counterjungled out of the blue, it is predictable and a reactive responce.

Falling behind in gold and exp is worthwhile if you can snowball your laners. Of course successful ganks is an art and there's always ways to make that happen.

I don't compare myself to other guides. I don't care what other's opinion are. This is my opnion, here it is. I don't really mean it when I say "this is the best build" or "this is the only way to do it", in fact if you read my guide you would understand the point was the exact opposite, because Udyr is so versatile, he can do this: here are the advantages, which you seem to disregard, and as you clearly pointed out; here are the weaknesses. Maybe I'll edit to make the weaknesses more clear in my guide.

I'm fine with whatever score my guide receives, but nevertheless, I believe my idea deserves to be out there for people to see. I also believe it to have value, and if you disagree with that then you are wrong.

Speaking of things to disreguard: Maybe next time you'll try a build before judging.
1
sirell (400) | December 20, 2012 3:26pm
Yeah, that's why I said it was more for Pheonix Udyr - I remembered you're building Tiger Udyr - Wit's End is more of a luxury item for Tiger. I consider Phage core as well, regardless of which Udyr you build.

Quoted:
Who says you have to go back at 4? Spam turtle twice and you're back at full if you feel like continuously jungling.


There's no need to make **** up. Spamming Turtle does not bring you up to full hp. It about breaks even (you might gain some, you might lose some). It lets you continue jungling, but does not give you enough lifesteal for full hp and it does not allow you to gank as effectively as - say - having potions would. In addition, after a gank, there's a higher possibility of returning to the jungle if you have remaining potions.

Quoted:
You are ten times more useful ganking than you are farming in the jungle.


Also wrong. This assumes 1) your ganks are successful in any fashion, and 2) that you CAN gank a lane at all. What if the opponent freezes the lane, or wards? What if you get counter-jungled and fall behind? That makes it impossible for you to gank at all. If you try ganking a lane regardless of this, all you will do is fall behind in exp and gold whilst the other jungler is still farming. You waste time trying to gank when you could be keeping up in levels and gold in the jungle. I'm not saying ganking isn't useful, but to say something as the above is just narrow-minded and fairly silly.

Honestly, looking around other guides (of players that are also high(er) elo, I might add), not a single one of them start Doran's Blade. In fact, some of them advise against it. It's gotta be them and not you that's wrong, right? Just because something 'works' doesn't make it optimal. And that's why I wouldn't vote this guide up - because it's sub-optimal. End of story.
1
Toastwaffle | December 20, 2012 2:59pm
Here is the logic of not building Wit's End on Udyr, take it into the context of my build and not some jungle-farming type build.

If you try to begin building Wit's right after Spirit Stone, you are propelling yourself your clear times will be godly but are sacrificing defensive stats, the magic resist is nice but won't play a very great role unless you have more health. If you are building Wit's after your Blessing of the spirit of the ancient golem, you are cutting in on your early damage.

Let's not forget that Wit's is based on two nerfed stats this season, attack speed and mr.

Phage provides both damage and defense stats and depending on your needs, more damage or more defense, it can build into two very nice midgame items. Let's not forget how good the passive is.

Now about Spirit Stone. It's whole design is to empower champions to be able to thrive in the jungle, no one can argue with that. However it stats does not help you in any other place other than in the jungle. Udyr does not need help in the jungle.

Who says you have to go back at 4? Spam turtle twice and you're back at full if you feel like continuously jungling. But if you want to gank successfully you do want boots, unless the laners don't have it themselves.

Here's a tibit. You are ten times more useful ganking than you are farming in the jungle. Doran's helps him secure ganks, tiger helps him secure ganks. Spirit stone does nothing of the sort, Phoenix is awful in securing ganks compared to tiger, Wit's End is awful in securing kills compared to Phage. AD is a way better stat for Udyr for damage in general.

When possible always get the best deal for your money, Doran's is the best deal a bruiser can afford at level one. Doran's WORKS with Udyr. There are a few sacrifices in have to make, but the stat gain is worth it in the end. Why? Because health and AD are the best stat for Udyr in the early levels. End of story.
1
sirell (400) | December 20, 2012 2:25pm
After your first clear you go back to get boots? Seriously? What jungler actually does that unless they've failed their jungle? A level 4 gank isn't particularly early as it is. And you waste your blue buff and quite possibly your red buff too. Congratz. Btw, on top of the gold you earn over time, the gold you get in the jungle only amounts to 335g. You'll have enough for boots and maybe 1-2 pots, whereas if I stay in the jungle, I'd be able to complete Spirit Stone AND boots.

And the fact that Wit's End is the most popular item on Udyr and has the highest win rate of any item on him says nothing at all, right (although I just realised Wit's End is more for Pheonix Udyr)?

Also, you know Spirit Stone and upgrades make for faster dragon and Baron, right? So I wouldn't discount it too quickly.
1
Laggermeister (242) | December 20, 2012 1:42pm
More like the main reason machete is better than dorans is if you start dorans and get invaded from level 2 onwards, you're screwed.
1
Toastwaffle | December 20, 2012 1:25pm
Sigh...

Clearing isnt everything, come midgame when the dragon fight starts a spirit stone does absolutely nothing. For 475 you'll get stats that will help you throughout instead of something that simply helps you clear in the first 10 minutes.

Stonewall said that the clearing speed was the same, he said it was unsafe however if you fear a gank in your own jungle. Yep, there is risk involved in this build.

You won't be at half health while ganking because after your first clear your going back to buy boots anyways and maybe a couple of pots, if you're planning on any success in your ganks. Spamming turtles also gets you to full by sacrificing a couple of seconds on your camps.

The key here is tradeoff, you're sacrificing a few early game jungling stats for health an AD which will serve you well all game. You're not even acknowledging that, clearly you don't understand fully what my build is going for.

Why does Wit's suck on Udyr, actually I have a whole paragraph on why in my guide. Here it is: "While the attack speed and on-hit effect will serve you well till the end of the game, health is the number one defensive stat mid-game and you should not postpone getting it in favor for some early game MR (situational)."

It might be something nice to get after your phage, but phage is core and Wit's optional.
1
sirell (400) | December 20, 2012 1:02pm
You mean, other than reasons listed in your own video? *facepalm*

Same clear, better sustain. Good enough reason for me. If you feel the extra 10 AD will help you when ganking at 50% hp, you might be right. Or you might feed a lane. Possibilities of returning to the jungle also remain dubious with Doran's after a gank.

Btw, you might want to code links to your pictures. And I'd add Wit's End to core and not just as a choice.
Loading Comments...
Load More Comments
Download the Porofessor App for Windows

League of Legends Champions:

Teamfight Tactics Guide