Talon General Guide by medalsnipes
Not Updated For Current Season
The starts of Talon
Standard Start Against Squishies Mid
If you are dealing with hard AD champs (Pantheon,
Not Updated For Current Season
The masteries shown here are not yet updated for the current season, the guide author needs to set up the new masteries. As such, they will be different than the masteries you see in-game.
Hi, I'm a diamond 4 Talon main on the NA server at the time of this guide. I'm gonna explain some match ups and counters to Talon. Vapora has a guide out to Talon that already explains the "standard" talon build at the moment quite well but I'll show you my variation and then I'll explain versus various champions. This guide thus isn't really about the build but about how to deal with specific match ups. The idea here is that if you go into a game and are countered or against an unfamiliar match up you can quickly come here and learn the basics of how to deal with the lane. Or you could just read it all and be pro like me ;p
New masteries. Note that one change with the new masteries is that due to the mastery that grants people 5% hp or so on kill if you die you may save them from dieing to your bleed/ignite making it difficult to trade 1 for 1.
There are a few starts for talon.
Crystalline 3hp-Standard safe mid start. Recommended for most matchups.
Cloth 4hp 1 mana- Use against heavy aggression level 1 matchups (pantheon lee sin)
boots 3hp 1 mana- movespeed- good for juking and helps you avoid ganks easier- crystalline is safer in lane though. The advantage to boots first is early ganks and boots are necessary later where as crystalline falls off after laning phase.
First item core- brutalizer- always get it.
Second item- boots if you haven't, followed by a tiamat.
Third- upgrade brut to youmous or get mobi boots (depends on which u can afford)
Fourth- Last whisper. At this point you are god. You can 1v1 Tanks or Squishies if you play properly.
Fifth- Hydra- Lifesteal is nice, you can skip this if your team is in dire straights and you desperately need to turn things around.
Sixth- Gaurdian Angel- This is your final item that will truly affect the game. Once you purchase this you will essentially be able to run into an enemy team, pick off squishies, die, and then come back. The enemy team is forced to focus you so essentially you will destroy their main dps backline and distract their frontline (the frontline will have to finish you when you revive or risk you getting away). Then your team will come in and wreck the enemy as they won't have any dps.
7th- Large DPS items- My personal fav is I.E. but Merc is also good. Not a big deal, you can already one combo most of the enemy team.
Lvl 1 W
Lvl 2 E (use it to harass/ teleport to enemy junglers when they gank from behind to escape)
Lvl 3 Q
After max w then q with e last
This is full build order combo
Youmous- flash- e-ignite- auto attack chained into q- w-r once-tiamat. The key to a lot of matchups is the flash combo. It lets you attack from a deceptively far distance thus surprising enemies and stopping them from backing up in time. Risky if you mess up though so practice.
Ahri- Crystalline start or boots- Avoid her q, don't stand near minions so she cant heal with her passive. Harass with w and you combo when she farms/whenever you can.
Using full combo at level 6 with preemptive ignite should one combo her. Be careful only the most clean combo can execute before she ults away. Screw up and she'll just ult away with 100hp everytime. This is a very favorable LANE matchup for Talon. However late game if your not far ahead it can be hard to kill her especially with zhonyas and her ult and charm. Also remember that she can gank just like you. If she leaves lane and you don't call mia or push the lane or follow her (punish her in some way) she may get free kills and become too tanky to one combo with seekers or dorans rings. However the flipside is also true, Talon can roam quite well as well and gets quite scary with a free kill. Also Talon's base movespeed is better so really you should be the one roaming more.
Akali- W her constantly, avoid letting her hit you when her q is on you. The key to beating akali is to get the jump on her. Combo her then run away pre 6, she wont be able to get the q proc due to your silence and slow. Once 6 all in her. Note-get a vision ward for her stealth. Be careful, if she ults when you e you will trade places and you will be in trouble as her q will be on you at a range while your melee combo will be ****ed up. This is a very favorable matchup for Talon provided you don't do anything silly and let her get too strong to one combo. REMEMBER THE VISION WARD!
Anivia- Harass like mad, don't be afraid to trade auto attacks yours are better. Avoid getting ice balled, its not worth a farm. Wait for her to make a mistake and get her egg down. Then her life. Roam a lot if she turtles. Main thing here is to avoid taking free harass for farms and to not get one combed by her ice ball combo. This is an extremely favorable matchup for Talon.
Annie- Only time she is a threat is if she uses her early game harass effectively. Pre level 3 you can't do very much to her so she can melee/ fireball your *** all day long pushing you out of lane. Do not panic if this happens. Stay back, farm with w if you have to and call for a gank. If you find yourself going in and all of a sudden it looks like you underestimate her damage and she tries to all in you DO NOT TRY TO BACK OUT unless your sure you can make it. Instead continue to melee her and blow your ignite as well. Hopefully this will result in a 1 for 1 trade. If you try to back out her range will often allow her to finish you off. Annie's fire armor atm is very strong. This makes her deceptively tanky even if she delays building seekers armguards. Furthermore, she can one combo you and interrupt your combo while your stealthed in your ult by stunning you with her cone or bear. If this happens she will often back off using flash or just walk out of your ult before you can close it negating the crucial damage you need to finish her. This is why it is key to make sure she dies before she can get a spell off. Hence master using flash before your combo begins as it will give you the element of surprise and slow down her reaction time. This ia fairly favorable matchup for Talon.
Brand- Annoying skillshots but super squishy. He can kill you if you don't have your ult but really all you have to do is all in him everytime your ult is up. Keep in mind he can still stun you while your stealthed like annie so once again make sure you finish him before he can react. The worst time will be the laning phase. Try to stand behind the minions so if he lands a fire pillar on you he cant stun you through the minions easily. If you see him wiff a stun feel free to go in on him and get some free harass up. This is an extremely favorable matchup for Talon.
Cassiopeia- Dodge her poisen don't stand in the puddle she spits. Cass is incredibly squishy. An easy all in at 6. The early game can be annoying if you don't juke her poisen properly. You may have to w for farms though I prefer to harass her. Ganks are also effective as she has no escapes. A caveat though- her ult can be very annoying if she does it to you mid combo then flashes away. Once again remember the element of surprise with flash and a perfect combo will do wonders against this. Practice practice. Overall an extremely favorable lane for Talon.
Cho Gath- A nightmare for Talon. He is extremely tanky and deals a high amount of damage as well as cc. This is a very tough lane for inexperienced Talons. So how do we deal with our first real counter? First of all, HEAVY early game harass. W W W W W W melee melee q q q q q q. He heals a ****ton with his passive. DO not let him stay at high hp or he WILL ALWAYS stay at high hp. Go hard but don't overextend into his minions. Early game you should have an edge if you autoattack after cutthroat and then chain your q into it. AVOID standing near your minions. He will try to rupture or scream you and even if he misses he will get accidental (or intentional if hes smart) minion kills which will heal him due to his passive. at some point he will just become too tanky for you. This is when you need to switch lanes or go ganking. Push out your lane with W and once it's at his tower go find somebody to kill. While you want to harass heavily early game remember to keep an eye out for ganks. With his high feast damage and cc if you go in and a jungler comes escape will be heavily reliant on using flash to juke rupture or whatever the jungler has. Remember though that late game Talon can simply go around Cho in teamfights. This means that if you avoid feeding and get suitably farmed late game even without a real gold advantage you will be more useful than cho.
Darius- Lethal in a heads up fight the key to fighting darius is to abuse your w range. By harassing him with it and chaining an autoattack into a q you can out dps him pre 6. This will hopefully allow you to all in him once you have your ult. (remember he cant ult you whiel your stealthed so you will have an opportunity to get your damage off first. the question is, will it be enough?) It's all about getting your damage off and running away as prolonged engagements favour darius. Getting cloth armor here is probably a really good idea. A jungler gank is also nice. If you play safe and hit and run and farm though you should be able to stay even if not actually win the early lane. The real scary part is once darius starts getting tanky as if you can't one combo him he's just gonna demolish you or you'll be forced to ult and run away without killing him. Once that happens you can only w farm from a range with low hp or back which gives him free rein over the lane. This is a medium high difficulty lane for Talon. Have to play it like your teemu.
Diana- Dodge qs, use your auto attack q combo to outdps her. Back off when she shields to avoid getting hit by the orbs and proccing the secondary shield. Once your 6 whittle her down with some light harass then all in her. The real scare here isn't her so much as if you get caught by a gank. Her dash plus slow and pull makes getting away from her and a jungler very difficult even if you ult. Not to mention she's tanky enough so you can't just focus her down very easily. As long as you dodge her qs though you should be fine. Also remember after you chain auto attack into q to run away. Your main dps is done but her passive every 3 melee hits is actually a LARGE percentage of her damage. If you deal your damage then run away before she can shiny melee you (your slow will keep her from hitting this oftentimes) you will win trades. This is a semi favorable lane for Talon.
Elise- Stay behind minions don't get caught by the cocoon. The scary thing about Elise is her tankiness later on. Early game though she's pretty darn squishy so harass with w. Remember that her ranged harass is also pretty good so until you hit 2 or 3 you won't get a great tradeoff. Her initial burst is bad but her sustained dps in spider form is scary. Always back off after your combo to avoid this. Do not overstay your welcome. Remember that she can avoid your ults damage by rappelling up. Thus pick your all ins carefully.
Eve- Cheeky littler bastard her constant qing is very irritating to deal with. However your w range is better so you can hit her as well. Hit her with all you got and then back off. Once your six all in her. Remember however that her ult gives her a shield so factor in that extra hp to your calculations else she might get away or worse turn it around. Decent lane for Talon
Fiddlesticks- This is a laughable lane. Just harass him with w wait for him to lifedrain you then silence him and melee away. All in all day. If you can't figure out how to beat this guy quit Talon. Also remember even if you can't silence him for some reason if u ignite him you may be able to outdps his heal if hes low. Extremely favorable lane for Talon.
Fiora- This used to be a hilarious lane for Talon because whenever he'd ult the stealth would cancel Fiora's ult. However that has sadly been fixed somewhat. This lane is all about mindgames. Your w goes through her shield so use it whenever you can. However her sustained damage is no joke so you want to w her to slow her when she goes in and then back off until the speedhacks wear off. The key is to bait out her shield and let it wear off and then go in. Or go in get a few shots off when shes not expecting it and then run away when she pops the shield. If you play it right you can completely screw with her head. Note that lategame it becomes difficult to fight her as he rshield combined with her ult and whatever she builds will make her too tanky to burst as well as dealing too much dps to get away from. However as long as you win the early game this shouldn't be a problem. Cloth armor may be a good idea against this one. Fairly favorable lane for Talon.
Fizz- This lane is scary early game. It can go either way. The key here is abuse your w range and auto q fizz as much as possible. However his dps is also no joke. You want to auto q then back off until his shiny seastone trident wears off. How to win- dodge his e. When he goes up on that trident be ready and back off then reengage when he lands. Oftentimes if you misplay he can dodge your w with his e and then land on you for damage and a slow winning the lane. Don't let that happen, bait out the e and predict it. A good flash out of his e when he comes down can save you from the damage and win the lane. AT ALL Costs avoid the shark of doom. If you get hit by this immediately either run and flash away with ult (This is unlikely to save you) or try to engage him and trade your lives. This is hard because he can often e and avoid your ult and w damage. Trickly lane here, the more skilled player will win. Late game though Talon can be better though so all is not lost if you lose early game. (Fizze's shark is rather linear and hard to hit where as Talon can bypass the enemy tanks and teleport right into the squishies). Talon should win this lane if he is skilled enough but this can easily be misplayed especially with scary things like red pot added into the mix.
Galio- Joke lane, his passive is all wrong for you. His burst from a distance is annoying but with good jukes you can just go at him and rape him. Not to mention your e cancels his ult. This guy is pretty helpless against you after the first few levels.
Gangplank- Interesting lane, hard to deal with his sustained dps. Back off when he uses raise moral. Remember his fruit makes him hard to all in. Don't fight in his ult unless you have a massive advantage. Remember if he used his ult to help another lane you have a window of opportunity where you are strong. Pre 6 w him a lot and try to stay out of range of his pistol while your w is down. If he comes straight at you back off and let the minions hit him some (kite). This is a decent lane to go cloth armor against. Your more useful than him late game however he may get tankier than you so later on 1v1ing him is difficult. You should win this lane but if you misplay and he gets a kill on you this can turn sour and you will be forced to turtle. He will probably stack armor against you or hp. Good time to lane switch or roam or call for a gank.
Garen- Scary damage and tankyness but honestly if you chain auto q him and w often to make his passive stop working he cant do too much to you, his dps is pathetic once his abilities are used. Hard to kill but if you whittle him down you can all in him. Not to mention you have range. When he qs and runs at you back into your minion line and either wait it out and kite him or take it and hope the minions back you up enough to make up for it. Easy lane to win early, hard to kill late, but your better late game because you can just go for their squishies. Favorable lane for Talon.
Gragas- This is an interesting lane. Really comes down to how good the enemy gragas is. If he hits his barrels a lot this lane is really hard to stay in and he can all in you with his ult. Furthermore his insane sustain and slight tankiness makes it hard to deal with him. Avoid going in on him right after he drinks as he has a buff then. W harass a lot and stay even in farms. This is a good lane to ask for jungler intervention on. You can roam but so can he due to his dash. Oftentimes what will happen is you will roam and he will follow. If you don't kill them before he arrives or do sufficient damage you will be in a world of hurt so be careful. He will probably get jungler help as well as his slow from his dash and his ult make it hard to get away. He is all inable though so do take advantage of this. Flash to juke or surprise him is key here. This is a heavy skill matchup. Slightly favored to Talon but easily misplayed.
****er- Harass with w dodge his ****. Be careful, the new ****er has some derpy damage and cc. If you go in on him and he lives his turrets will rape you. Make sure you kill him when you all in or else you'll regret it. His early game harass makes it hard to farm, you may need to w farm a lot here/ turtle until you level up or get jungler help. If you ever find yourself pushed out against him its a good idea to roam but remember he is ALWAYS pushing so you must come back and defend after you gank another lane. Really a balance of harassing him till he's low enough to all in without getting pushed out of lane or ganked. Watch his summoners as well. If he has barrier all inning him is doubly risky. If he has teleport your ganks could backfire.
Irelia- An uncommon matchup. This is a matchup where it may be advisable to take q for extra damage lvl 2 rather than e. You want to avoid sustained fights. When she activates her true damage and heal w back off until it wears off. Rmeember to ignite her when she ults so she doesn't get healed for as much. Wittle her down with superior early game harass and then all in her as she doesn't get tanky till after she builds phage. Just remember not to overstay your welcome, she's all about long slugfests. eventually late game you will be unable to one v one her. But hopefully by then you'll have such a lead it won't matter. Leave her to your tnaks and adcs and go after her team's squishies. This is a decent lane to get cloth armor in. This lane is favored to Talon but as in all match ups make one mistake like getting ganked and things can go horribly wrong.
Janna- A bit of an odd lane but her shield and cc make it very difficult to deal with her. Remember her melee attacks are boosted with her shield. Plus if she's ap janna she's gonna hit a decent amount with her tornado and w. It won't be enough to kill you unless you overextend but it will be enough to push you out of lane if your not careful. Hard to all in her with her shield and ult. A good lane to roam if you can't kill her. Just don't get baited here, late game you are more useful than an overly farmed support.
J4- A poke master. Try to make your patterns unpredictable when you farm so he can't predict which way you will come from to last hit. Otherwise he'll q you every time you go in for a farm. Remember that his passive procs every few seconds so while initially he will do a fair amount of burst in a trade if you continue to whack at him and turn it into a slug fest it wont be a bad trade. As always, auto into q chain is important to get that extra dps. Your range gives you the edge here. Try to fall back when his shield comes on, you don't want to needlessly waste your mana hitting that. There's a trick you can use where if he throws the flag you can quickly e to him. This will silence him screwing over the rest of his combo and if you're exceptionally fast/lucky put you behind his starting point which is outside of the area his q would deal damage/knockyouup. What will often happen is you will get him low and pushed to his tower as you push harder than him. You will want to dive him. Be careful here because his cataclysm stays for a very long time after he dies. If you don't have flash or anything he will ult you and you will end up trading 1for1 instead of a clean kill. This is a fairly favorable lane for Talon, J4 just doesn't have the damage to keep up early game. Once he gets tanky though you'll have to switch lanes or roam, he won't die until you get lw.
Jax- Another tricky lane. The key here is to realize that your w and ult go through jaxes dodge ability. Thus when he activates it w him to slow him and then try to find a way to avoid the stun. This includes e to minions or just trying to run away. You won't always find a way but it's worth a shot. Once his dodge thing wears off though go in and start wailing at him till he backs off. After hitting 6 try to all in him. Remember that he grows stronger the longer he fights, you want to engage when he's not warmed up on minions or a tower and you don't want to fight for long periods of time. Get your damage and get out. He will no doubt build armor and it will make it difficult for you. A good matchup to start armor against. You just have to be patient and wittle away at him until hes low enough to go in on. This is a favourable lane early game but later on it becomes extremely hard to deal with his rampant scaling.
Jayce- Some people picked this guy against Talon back when Jayce was popular. They quickly realized their mistake. Jayce is hopeless against Talon. His biggest single source of damage is his shock ball. However this can't go through minions. EVERYTHING Talon has does. What does this mean? Just stand behind your minions and w his *** all day long. Once you get your tele use that and combo/auto him too. At 6 ALL IN ALL DAY. Jayce will often get tear of the goddess and back up and just try to farm with shock blast when this happens. Just zone him as much as you can and wait for flash. As soon as it's up aggressively flash forward and e onto him for a 100-0 all in. Jayce is just too squishy and too inconsistent to deal with Talon's ability to just go straight at him. Some notes- Try to go in on him when he's in ranged form. He gains bonus defense in his melee form so he will be slightly tankier if you go in then. Furthermore, in ranged form he doesn't have anyway to get you off him. He will be forced to try to switch to melee form to knock you back. However, your silence will make it difficult to do this and will throw him off, especially if you surprise him with flash. By the time he switches to melee form and managed to hit e you will already have ulted and be stealthed. Close it up and down he goes. Extremely favorable lane for Talon.
Karma- This one is annoying. Her constant ability to shoot **** out and slow you plus decent burst damage makes her one of the most frustrating oppoents to deal with at all stages of the game. Early game try to juke as much as her **** as possible, though you will probably get hit by quite a few if she has any skill at all (make sure to stand behind minions but farther behind than usual as her abilities will hit the minions and then the splash can hit you if your inside the minion wave). You want to harass and farm as much as possible while staying alive. You're going to need to spam pots and you may accidentally die if you tank one bad shot. Keep in mind that if she spirit links you its incredibly difficult to get away before it binds you which leaves you helpless and unable to dodge her other skills. Stay back on this one. Once you hit 6 you're gonna want to go on the offense. focus more on getting her low and then all in her. Late game it's gonna turn into this- You're gonna see her alone. You're gonna youmous in and start heading up. When she sees you she will naturally fire off her slows and ruin your day along with a third of your hp. How do we deal with this? Attack from a bush OR JUST FLASH. If you do it right you will not only surprise the **** out of her but you will flash in and than cutthroat as she launches her missile. Because you teleported the missile will miss you and you will be on her and easily able to one combo her and make your escape. Just don't get baited, one mistake and you'll find yourself low, slowed, and bound. Good late game for Talon but extremely annoying lane phase and can still be a pain late game. Vision is important else she'll snipe you all day long.
Karthus- The worlds squishiest. This guy is just asking for it. W him all day long and juke his bombs. There are two ways to go about juking this guy. You can stand near your minions. If his bomb hit's 2 targets the damage is halved. However this makes a problem because even if you dodge he will get free farms when he bombs. Alternatively you can try to stay to the side and away from the minion wave. This puts you more at risk to the enemy jungler (not so much now that you can just trinket ward that side of the jungle) and it makes it riskier because if karthus lands a q on you it's gonna hurt a lot more but he won't be able to harass you and safely farm. I prefer to do a mix of both, when I'm near full i'll stand away from the minions and when i'm low i'll stay in them so I can't be killed by a few mistakes. As soon as you hit 3 you should be going in and meleeing the **** out of karthus. At 6 you should be all inning him all day long. You will probably need flash against a good karthus as he will be farming in the back with his spirit bombs and near unreachable otherwise. Only thing to remember is that after he dies he can still cast so get away from him and juke after you kill him. Extremely favorable lane for Talon. Good lane to go boots first instead of crystalline if you wanna be risky. That way you can juke bombs better and gank other lanes after karthus is dead faster.
More matchups to come.