General Guide by Mr Dr Snugglez
Not Updated For Current Season
This guide has not yet been updated for the current season. Please keep this in mind while reading. You can see the most recently updated guides on the browse guides page.
Who am I?
My name is RJ, my LoL name is "vws snugglez" and "mr dr snuggles" I have NACS experience and scrimmed against pro teams. I am current masters in solo que and last season was top 20 challenger. oh, and i play jungle ;) can't wait to about this cinderhulk item.
Intro to this guide
2.5 new items came out this patch. One is luden's echo] The other is [[bami's cinder which upgrades into the new tank jungle enchantment "Cinderhulk" This guide is meant to analyze them.
RECIPE Needlessly Large Rod + Aether Wisp + 650 gold (total cost: 3100 gold)
ABILITY POWER 120
MOVEMENT SPEED 7%
UNIQUE PASSIVE Gains charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next spell hit expends all charges to deal 100 (+0.15 ability power) bonus magic damage to up to 4 targets on hit. Applies spell Effects (e.g., Spell Vamp, Rylai's, etc).
RECIPE Tier 2 Jungle Item + Bami's Cinder + 350 gold (2200 gold total)
UNIQUE PASSIVE Grants +25% bonus health
UNIQUE PASSIVE Immolate - Deals 16 (+ 1 per champion level) magic damage to nearby enemies. Increases with time in combat up to 24 (+ 1.5 per champion level).
My analysis/interpretation Of luden's Echo
This is basically a static shiv for mages. It's meant to replace the deathfiregasp item. It shifts mages from single target nukes to more aoe bursty. Mages like katarina will benefit from hit more than a champion like veigar who is more single target.
Wave Clear- This item grants quit a bit more waveclear, i'm assuming it can be charged within 30 seconds and therefor it will give that much more damage to help defend turrets the same way statis shiv does.
Scaling - is .15 AP. So when its bought it will do i'm estimating roughly 130 damage. Late game it will only do 219 damage if the mage has 700AP. It doesn't scale very well like DFG did. But when you can see it hits 4 people that brings the damage up to 876 damage, which isn't bad. Although that is assuming perfect conditions.
Seiging and anti seiging - just like static shiv this is good for seiging, give good waveclear and extra poke.
Aoe teamfight dmg vers a multiple threat comp - If the enemy team is running 4 supports and kog maw this will hardly make a difference. It's not an assasination item, but if they have 4 threats that don't have that much hp it will help take them all lower.
My Analysis/interpretation of Cinderhulk
Gimme a B
Gimme a R
Gimme a O
Gimme a K
Gimme a E
gimme a N
WHAT DOES THAT SPELL?
This item is sure to be broken. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets tweaked b4 we see it in #LCS.
Let's do some maths shall we?
First part damage
Cinderhulk costs 2200 gold.
Sunfire Cape costs 2600g
Sunfire cape gives only 60 bonus hp for the extra 850 gold it costs to upgrade, it then gives 43 maximum aoe damage to enemies. A ruby crystal is 400g and gives 150hp. so we can estimate 60hp at its highest value at ~200 gold. This means that based on sunfire cape 43 aoe dmg/second is worth 650g.
Cinderhulk costs 2200 gold.
at max level cinderhulk does 34-51 dmg per second, and 50% more to minions. If we take sunfire capes damage ratio of 650/43 we get 15.116 g/damage. This gives a gold value of (34*15.116)514-(51*15.116)771 And thats not factoring in the extra damage to minions.
second part tank
a Giants belt gives 380hp for 1k gold. Doing the ratio for this (1000/380)*350 we get a gold value of 2.63g/hp. This gives the 350hp from cinderhulk a value of 920.5.
Then there's the variable value of cinderhulk The +25% bonus hp. Bonus HP is anything other than what a champion would have with no items or buffs if i'm correct.
So for minimum purposes this is worth 25% of 350, which is 87.5hp and is worth 230g. So if a champion has no items cinderhulk give a total gold value between hp and damage of (230+920.5+771)1921 at max lvl. The item only costs 2200 gold and this gold value does not include the smite buff, which is REALLY hard to put a gold v alue on. But is clearly worth at least 450 because that's what it costs to upgrade from a machete. Meaning that with no items Cinderhulk is worth 1921+450=2371, which is 171 more gold than we pay for it.
NOW, assuming most op scenario we use cho'gath. Cho'gath has a cinderhulk, Warmog's Armor, Rod of Ages, Randuin's Omen, Banshee's Veil, and 900 hp from his passive. Thats a total of (800+900+650+450+500+350)=3650. Cinderhulk would give a bonus 25% of this which is 912.5hp and is worth a gold value of 2399.875g. ARE YOU FU&^ING KIDDING ME. This would give the cinderhulk a maximum value of 4541.375 gold, but it costs 2200. It can literally be worth more than 2x what it costs. Zzz... Zzz.. riot pleas. Oh and just for giggles, cho gath has a base hp of 1934 at lvl18. With this build he would have (1934+3650+912.5)6496.5hp. Seriously.... Who wants to play against that?
I'm not sure how readable that last chapter is. its 4am and i'm tired and hungry but wanted to get this out on the market. So if it comes off as weird just comment and tomorrow or the next day when im well rested i'll clean it up and organize it a bit.
CInderhulk - OP
Luden's Echo - Balanced