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General Guide by DuffTime

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League of Legends Build Guide Author DuffTime

Offtanks, The New Metagame.

DuffTime Last updated on August 17, 2012
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Babriel | May 23, 2013 4:29pm
Wow i just read this after something like a year since I last read it just because it's so entertaining to reread and i remembered how the offtank meta was so foreign. Now we have crazy **** going on with ad assassins mid and ad carries top, but I feel like the dust is finally settling after the season 3 item changes. Just came back here to admire one of the best guides I have ever read and to ask: Duff, are you going to theorycraft on the upcoming "meta" anytime soon?

Thanks! :)
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Ebon Renegade | November 29, 2012 9:56pm
I read this guide and think it is one of the most brilliant ones on this site. You sir have my upvote and I hope that you will come back and update the guide whenever you can!
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DihH | October 29, 2012 10:30am
I'm currently building my Kha'Zix as an OffTank, reaching around 3.950 HP, 200 Armor and 130 MR late game...

He is still very deadly with Atma's Impaler and Blue Buff + Cooldown Glyphs (with a full farmed Warmog, BT and Fortitude I can get around 280 AD)...

Would you say he's not a good OffTank or maybe you just forgot to mention him in your builds?

Thank you for your guide, I can't imagine someone downvoting this.
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oani00 | October 16, 2012 6:48am
Loved the guide, super informative : )

But, don't u think building trinity for an entire "archetype" of characters isn't a liiiitle bit of generalization?

I mean, almost all the times a carry should build an phanton d., but it's not mandatory. I'm a little annoyed by this, is this your proposal of new meta-game really? Don't think it's wright or wrong, won't judge, but, all you propose is to call a top tank melee "with trinity" an off-tank?
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animebot | October 8, 2012 8:16pm
May i ask what do you think about Jax as a possible off tank i see your point most defiantly; but i am a massive user of Jax and well.... i hope you can give me a response soon thanks!

p.s. AMAZING Guide and deduction skills.
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PrinceVinc (2) | September 19, 2012 7:57am
Look at the first comment, Duff stated there that he changed the item build for jarvan and irelia but it seems only irelias has been changed :/
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Embracing (348) | September 19, 2012 6:52am
This is outdated. Read the guide instead of the build...
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PrinceVinc (2) | September 19, 2012 6:46am
Jarvans build still contains Trinity Force? Is this intended? because I thought they where removed as stated as in your first comment here. :/
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theCourier (1) | September 17, 2012 5:38am
Simply amazing!
I've spent quite a lot of time to read this guide but, in the end, it was worth it. Personally, this guide helped me out a bunch and the more I use your advices the more I see how true the things you said are true. So, before I go off topic, good job!
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Livramento (4) | September 13, 2012 4:52am
nice work +1
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dingo1417 (3) | August 26, 2012 10:42am
I've been playing LoL since about the time this guide came out (didn't realize it was from May '11 until after I read it) and the "new" meta you described is all I've ever played. I've NEVER seen an AD carry mid, AP carry top, tank/support bot, and jungler (except a few times against bots in a low sum level game, but those don't matter at all) and I play on the US server so that was strange to read. I love playing Trundle Jungle and your build is slightly different from the one I use, but I will try it one day and see how that goes, because I know I am not a super fantastic player who crushes everyone in normal on a game to game basis. Also, isn't Lee Sin SUPPOSED to be tanky/dps? Like, the way his abilities align and everything? I've seen everything from tanky/dps lee to tank lee to AP lee (dem shields) but I always thought the ideal way to go was tanky/dps on him. I'll try this on him too. Great guide +1
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DoomEnvoy | August 23, 2012 6:34pm
Good concept guide,
hate to see some ppl cant understand that this is not a build guide, but a play style one.

PS: i incidentally stumbled with the tryforce + randuin + wits-end (warmog and little more) offtank build in two games when my team was 4 vs 5,
with nunu bot times.
I was the heart and sould of the team.
Works insanely well,
still, u need to farm. A LOT.
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Warteck (2) | August 22, 2012 10:18pm
YAW BRAH, +1 MY LEBLANC GUIDE!
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Warteck (2) | August 22, 2012 10:17pm
DIS
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Warteck (2) | August 22, 2012 10:16pm
no? maybe this
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Warteck (2) | August 22, 2012 10:16pm
how bout this
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Warteck (2) | August 22, 2012 10:14pm
bleep boop bop
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DuffTime (670) | August 18, 2012 12:14am
Thanks, this guide was written well over a year ago to counter a meta game that is dead.

Thusly, it is obsolete now =]

Any future questions, add my on Facebook or follow me on Twitter and ask me there, I won't be returning to check up on these guides any longer ^_^

Thanks for stopping by! =]
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nathan422 | August 13, 2012 12:00pm
Dufftime your right the games evolving and i have being trying to figure out why things were getting hard but this build put every thing together for me especially th hole 20 Armour thing thank you for this guide

BUT some of the lanes you said sound really werid like solo top is almost always 2 melee champs so people would actual be happy for aa top irela or javan also something you might add to your build is the mal-mortis because the ad on it is great and the mr is fairly high + the shield after 30% hp of magic damage is done its just and epic item (just a though)
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DuffTime (670) | July 31, 2012 10:01pm
Thanks man, makes me feel good to know it :)
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Master Yoda | July 30, 2012 5:50am
Duff, this guide is just... amazing! I was feeling like coming here just to tell you that all the time I'm sure you expended on this guide really worth it! You helped me and a lot of peoples, I'm sure :)
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DuffTime (670) | July 29, 2012 7:10pm
Thanks guys :)

Neon Kitty wrote:

Duffman,I've only read a few sections of this and I love it. It's good to know that there's someone out there willing to help others get better, and this "guide", if you will, is a great learning tool for different play styles.

For your awesome, I shall give you +1 Winning.

Also as a random note, I've seen a strictly support team crush the opposition VERY effectively. Shameful that I was on the receiving end of said support team. XD


Thanks! :)

All support teams are okay, but generally lack the end game and tankiness that you need to have an effective team composition. They do tend to win games in solo queue though. People can't deal with all the CC and heals and such.
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TeemoOPTeemo | July 26, 2012 3:19am
Pretty detailed Like It + 1 vote. I've been playing her as an ad champ and worth it cuz of w its almost like fiora but instead of attack speed you get damage.Become op at mid game.
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Frstypwn | July 25, 2012 3:19am
More good Off-Tanks are Warwick, Malphite (being one of the tankiest- in-game with high output), Warwick (Jungle end-game build)
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Neon Kitty | July 22, 2012 8:10am
Duffman,I've only read a few sections of this and I love it. It's good to know that there's someone out there willing to help others get better, and this "guide", if you will, is a great learning tool for different play styles.

For your awesome, I shall give you +1 Winning.

Also as a random note, I've seen a strictly support team crush the opposition VERY effectively. Shameful that I was on the receiving end of said support team. XD
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DuffTime (670) | July 19, 2012 4:03pm
tyg13 wrote:

I just want to say, I respect you greatly and love your guides (and am extremely impressed by your ability to predict the meta shift) but in this case, I think you're simply wrong. You'd have to be crazy not to admit simply from watching tournament play and doing solo queue that there is undoubtedly a very strong meta:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never seen anything recently that has deviated from this strategy whatsoever. Every once in a while, you'll have a team run double AP (Top AP and Mid AP) but it's infrequent and situational at best.


Thanks! :)

Double AP works, AP bot lane with support works, jungle Twitch recently allowed ADC to be in the jungle, double bruiser bot lane works, Tanks in the jungle work, bruisers in the jungle work, etc etc etc. :P

Some ADC's can mid lane as well.

There is a loose meta but it should be treated as such, a loose meta. If a champion can succeed outside of the "meta" then he should be regarded as something special and investigated more thoroughly.

Arnelius wrote:

Karma offtank, or even a fed veigar offtank xD


lolwat
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Arnelius | July 12, 2012 6:03pm
Karma offtank, or even a fed veigar offtank xD
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tyg13 | July 9, 2012 10:07pm
DuffTime wrote:

Oh ionno, the new meta game is that there isn't much of a meta game anymore o:

Thanks for the positive vote :)


I just want to say, I respect you greatly and love your guides (and am extremely impressed by your ability to predict the meta shift) but in this case, I think you're simply wrong. You'd have to be crazy not to admit simply from watching tournament play and doing solo queue that there is undoubtedly a very strong meta:

Top: Offtank/Tanky DPS
Mid: AP Carry
Bot: Ranged AD + Support/Tank
Jungle: Offtank/Tanky DPS

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never seen anything recently that has deviated from this strategy whatsoever. Every once in a while, you'll have a team run double AP (Top AP and Mid AP) but it's infrequent and situational at best.
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DuffTime (670) | July 7, 2012 9:11am
amanea wrote:

Hi,
I created an account just to comment your guide. It's brilliant :) I agree with everything you wrote. And not only about builds, but about the metagame itself. I'm happy that there are players who think and feel the same as me :)

(Sorry for my english, I know it's not very good.)


:) Thanks man :P


Gota ask duff, how would you "this" meta game (the one this guide is about) that cleary is the meta game today? :p

Still this gets a 1+ from me! :D


Oh ionno, the new meta game is that there isn't much of a meta game anymore o:

Thanks for the positive vote :)
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Return of Bob (4) | July 5, 2012 5:45pm
Gota ask duff, how would you "this" meta game (the one this guide is about) that cleary is the meta game today? :p

Still this gets a 1+ from me! :D
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amanea | July 4, 2012 2:07am
Hi,
I created an account just to comment your guide. It's brilliant :) I agree with everything you wrote. And not only about builds, but about the metagame itself. I'm happy that there are players who think and feel the same as me :)

(Sorry for my english, I know it's not very good.)
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DuffTime (670) | July 4, 2012 12:39am
I think she can but it's not worth it :P
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MicroGodrad | July 3, 2012 6:14pm
I have yet to try this out, but I can see it working very well. One question: Could Riven be a built like this? My first thought is to say yes, but when I think about it, she can't use almost the entire Sheen part the the Trinity Force. A lot of gold is wasted like this. I'm sure she can Off-Tank, but can she Trinity Tank? I'm really not sure about this, would you be kind enough to tell me on this subject?
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DuffTime (670) | July 1, 2012 5:55pm
:P

I have a Lee Sin guide as well in case you're curious.
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BaloonPopper | July 1, 2012 5:03am
Nice strategy. But how come you never mentioned Atma's Impaler?
P.S.
For all of you Lee Sins out there, here is my offtank build for him:
1.Mercury Treads
2.Trinity force
3.Warmogs armor
4.Atma's impaler
5.Guardian angel
6.Frozen mallet
It provides extreme tankiness and tons of damage! ;D
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DuffTime (670) | June 27, 2012 5:40pm
I've heard he's awesome at it, yeah.
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NoizeKill (10) | June 25, 2012 10:35am
You should try Hecarim, in my opinion he is the best Off-Tank there is.
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DuffTime (670) | June 21, 2012 3:13pm
Again, old guide is old. The meta this was designed to counter doesn't even exist anymore.
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FalseoGod (303) | June 21, 2012 4:00am
Interesting read indeed. I won't play Irelia ever tho, coz I have no interest in mastering her and wouldn't take her to do a ranked game ever.
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DuffTime (670) | June 21, 2012 3:24am
Because this guide is over a year old, and Jax was completely different when it was written, and Riven didn't exist yet.

Olaf wasn't top lane playable either, his e still costed Mana.
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thebropro | June 20, 2012 1:48am
lol why didnt you post a build for olaf, jax or even riven?
olaf is the perfect 1v1 killer and you can play tanky like hell while doing a really really nice amount of damage...
jax ulti gives him like olaf instantly the ability to be an offtank and if you play riven well she becomes a super nice oftank as well ^^
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DuffTime (670) | May 25, 2012 11:55pm
Lul :P
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DarkPercy (151) | May 25, 2012 4:30am
Still annoys me that you say that resistance have diminishing returns lol.

Still like it though. >_>
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DuffTime (670) | May 24, 2012 12:59am
Thanks! :P

Keep in mind, it's a very old guide xD
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Gratz on 0hp | May 20, 2012 9:08pm
Great guide, you really know what you're talking about. Honestly going to buy some of these champs when i get home just to try this out. Thanks.
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DuffTime (670) | May 18, 2012 3:25pm
Fox Rage wrote:



Fix'd :)


Lol xD

Riven is more into the role of Assassin / tanky DPS.

You CAN build something like 3 doran's blades, a hexdrinker, merc treads, and a Randuin's Omen though if you have a lot of damage and need a front line :)
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DuffTime (670) | May 18, 2012 3:24pm
Paranoia0 wrote:

I really like this build, and I greatly appreciate it as a pretty new solo top player. However, I would like to ask what seals to replace the dodge seals. This might be a shocker, but... dodge seals don't exist anymore.

Another question I would like to ask is why in the Cho'Gath build, you max Rupture before Feral Scream. I personally find Feral Scream more useful, as Rupture is pretty obvious to your opponents.

All in all, I feel like this guide helped me quite abit, and was really well explained. A definite upvote.

P.S. Why smite on Trundle?



Mana efficiency. That was the only reason :P

Because he's jungling. That would be why :3

Cheers, thanks for reading :D
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Fox Rage (75) | May 18, 2012 10:46am
Lhein wrote:

Riven is the worst offtank ever imo


Fix'd :)
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Lhein | May 18, 2012 10:43am
Riven is the best offtank ever imo.
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Paranoia0 | May 18, 2012 12:44am
I really like this build, and I greatly appreciate it as a pretty new solo top player. However, I would like to ask what seals to replace the dodge seals. This might be a shocker, but... dodge seals don't exist anymore.

Another question I would like to ask is why in the Cho'Gath build, you max Rupture before Feral Scream. I personally find Feral Scream more useful, as Rupture is pretty obvious to your opponents.

All in all, I feel like this guide helped me quite abit, and was really well explained. A definite upvote.

P.S. Why smite on Trundle?
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DuffTime (670) | May 13, 2012 8:12pm
Try out Lee Sin or Riven :)
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Elibus | May 12, 2012 4:54pm
DuffTime wrote:



Well actually people have been using J4 again recently! :)

To be honest, the trinity tank method was the counter to a dead meta game. This guide is more like a historical artifact at this point :P

Thanks for insight, Duff.

I really enjoy the AD/Tank or offtank playstyle. When I play a carry-type I prefer Tryndamere ( Like a boss )

I'm looking to pick up a new champ to learn, and while I normally don't look for advice, I would be interested in what recommendations you might have.

I know I might be failing my team if I random queue by focusing on melee/AD Beefcakes, but it's what I play best and it's what I enjoy. I have yet to find a ranged or support champ that I don't get bored playing.
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DuffTime (670) | May 11, 2012 1:48am

We will just Irelia for an example. What would you describe her role as in a team fight. I am trying to figure out if it is me or my team that is causing the problem. I know not all team fights are going to end exactly as planned, but I would like them to be consistently better.


Kill squishy AD carry/AP carry. ^_^

Namingway wrote:

I find your guide delightful. I was secretly starting to think that playing Jarvan as an offtank was a terrible idea because before trinity force he just seemed so blah. Question though. I normally build heart of gold, and your guide puts Wriggle's in where my HoG goes. So my question is, does the lifesteal for Wriggle's work with Jarvan's passive, or am I misinterpereting it? Hit me up in game, Namingway, I'd love to play a round or two with ya.


Your name is pretty freakin' sweet man. Excellent in fact.

Well, I actually don't know! x_x


Great guide, I rly like it!!!


Thanks! :D
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MyNameIsCho | May 9, 2012 4:44pm
Great guide, I rly like it!!!
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Namingway | May 8, 2012 9:08pm
I find your guide delightful. I was secretly starting to think that playing Jarvan as an offtank was a terrible idea because before trinity force he just seemed so blah. Question though. I normally build heart of gold, and your guide puts Wriggle's in where my HoG goes. So my question is, does the lifesteal for Wriggle's work with Jarvan's passive, or am I misinterpereting it? Hit me up in game, Namingway, I'd love to play a round or two with ya.
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Clu Gulager (9) | May 8, 2012 2:25pm
We will just Irelia for an example. What would you describe her role as in a team fight. I am trying to figure out if it is me or my team that is causing the problem. I know not all team fights are going to end exactly as planned, but I would like them to be consistently better.
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DuffTime (670) | May 8, 2012 2:16pm
Thanks :)

Uhmmm advice for mid game? :P

That's such a general/vague question that it really can't be answered xP
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Clu Gulager (9) | May 8, 2012 8:19am
Duff I thoroughly enjoy your guides. I play a fair amount of solo top and the laning phase always goes well. Any quick advice for mid/late game? Sometimes the team fights don't go as well as planned.
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DuffTime (670) | May 6, 2012 2:14am
Yes well you used to see the AD carry mid and the AP carry top.

I'm sure you could find old games where CLG was playing Vrs other teams and whatnot, back before Dreamhack. I recall vividly when SaintVicious used my old Irelia build, item for item, as the solo top for CLG, in qualifying matches for the DreamHack games.

Logically he dunked squishy AP solo tops.

And yes, I have a crystal ball. It's my sound logical brain and my ability to say, "Nope, the way you're ALL doing it is wrong, and even if hundreds of thousands of you disagree with me, I'm right and you're all wrong."

:P

I suppose that's either ignorance or confidence in one's abilities. ;D
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ovrwrldkiler (1) | May 5, 2012 7:47pm
woops double post. said it didnt post either time :P
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ovrwrldkiler (1) | May 5, 2012 7:46pm
wow bro. I realize that this was written a while ago when i notice that that the current meta-game(the only metagame i've known since i started playing about 4 months ago) is exactly as you described it. You gotta crystal ball? If not trinity tanks, u always see the guys with the insane sustain and ubertankyness who dont die as easily to ganks up top and the ap carry mid, exactly like u said. Now im sorta wondering what it used to be like.....

solo lane ashe blows btw. hate when i have to do that...lol
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ovrwrldkiler (1) | May 5, 2012 7:46pm
wow bro. I realize that this was written a while ago when i notice that that the current meta-game(the only metagame i've known since i started playing about 4 months ago) is exactly as you described it. You gotta crystal ball? If not trinity tanks, u always see the guys with the insane sustain and ubertankyness who dont die as easily to ganks up top and the ap carry mid, exactly like u said. Now im sorta wondering what it used to be like.....

solo lane ashe blows btw. hate when i have to do that...lol
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DuffTime (670) | May 5, 2012 12:59pm
Roneld3444 wrote:

Great guide, +1. I only have problems with some of the builds for your champs up top. Instead of a Force of Nature on Blitz, a Manamune works sooo much better. He will be dishing out lots more damage and his passive will be doing more damage, for just the price of some Mres and hp regen. Blitz' hp pool isn't that fantastically high, he can't make such good use of the passive. Irelia and Jarvan are built a little too defensive to be effective. Sub out the Warmog's on Jarvan for a Last Whisper or maybe a BT if you feel adventureous. And onhit/ad Cho, really? It isn't too effective. Maybe a Rod of Ages instead of that Warmog's, tons of health for that Atma's, but more mana, and AP for his abilities and his E. And just one question, not a complaint, why Ninja Tabi on Irelia and Wukong? Mercs should always be built on Irelia to make that passive better unless you're against like Fiora, Gragas, and like Corki, or some other team completely devoid of cc.


Thanks for the +1! However, I sincerely disagree with pretty much every single thing you've said in your comment. It sounds like you're still pretty new to this game. Once you're more experienced, you'll start to see when and why to buy things like Merc Treads and Ninja Tabi, and how there is not "One item path" EVER and it's really bad and sheep minded to think that there is.

Wiwe wrote:

Cool, I hope you will :D.

What do you think of Nasus as a solo top champ? I really like his Q because it scales with kills (Yes, i have sion and veigar too) but it feels like I'm just not strong enough most of the games and that I should have picked shen instead. I feel that I can't play that offensively since he doesn't have a gap closer or a good sustained damage compared to other champions. It's kinda annoying, do you know what the problem might be? Is Nasus just outclassed by other solo top champs or do I just fail :P? And I usually farm my Q good, at least I think so.


Nasus is too weak in lane phase. I don't play him for a reason :) Even with a charged Q his end game isn't the best. It's just good.

Elibus wrote:

Excellent guide, I really appreciate you putting this up. I've read through the comments and noted you and others saying that Jarvan/Irelia are no longer optimal, and that Trinity is no longer solid for Irelia. Wondered what champs you think make solid offtanks, especially which ones rock as Tri-Tanks. I've had a lot of fun as Jarven, but I love improvement.


Well actually people have been using J4 again recently! :)

To be honest, the trinity tank method was the counter to a dead meta game. This guide is more like a historical artifact at this point :P


you mad? MIA will save the game. i have tried watching my map and playing and i loose farm and get hit a lot more. im not the only one. just keep tab's on your lain, its not that hard. but overall i like your guide



You bad? Watch your map and don't get owned by enemy champions.

The game is on your shoulders, not your team's shoulders. You cannot trust 4 random dudes to call MIA, and even if they do, what does that even mean? All it means is they're missing. It doesn't tell you where they are.
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linknich123 | May 5, 2012 9:40am
you mad? MIA will save the game. i have tried watching my map and playing and i loose farm and get hit a lot more. im not the only one. just keep tab's on your lain, its not that hard. but overall i like your guide
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Roneld3444 | May 3, 2012 3:13pm
Great guide, +1. I only have problems with some of the builds for your champs up top. Instead of a Force of Nature on Blitz, a Manamune works sooo much better. He will be dishing out lots more damage and his passive will be doing more damage, for just the price of some Mres and hp regen. Blitz' hp pool isn't that fantastically high, he can't make such good use of the passive. Irelia and Jarvan are built a little too defensive to be effective. Sub out the Warmog's on Jarvan for a Last Whisper or maybe a BT if you feel adventureous. And onhit/ad Cho, really? It isn't too effective. Maybe a Rod of Ages instead of that Warmog's, tons of health for that Atma's, but more mana, and AP for his abilities and his E. And just one question, not a complaint, why Ninja Tabi on Irelia and Wukong? Mercs should always be built on Irelia to make that passive better unless you're against like Fiora, Gragas, and like Corki, or some other team completely devoid of cc.
1
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Elibus | April 30, 2012 9:31am
Excellent guide, I really appreciate you putting this up. I've read through the comments and noted you and others saying that Jarvan/Irelia are no longer optimal, and that Trinity is no longer solid for Irelia. Wondered what champs you think make solid offtanks, especially which ones rock as Tri-Tanks. I've had a lot of fun as Jarven, but I love improvement.
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Wiwe | April 25, 2012 7:25am
Cool, I hope you will :D.

What do you think of Nasus as a solo top champ? I really like his Q because it scales with kills (Yes, i have sion and veigar too) but it feels like I'm just not strong enough most of the games and that I should have picked shen instead. I feel that I can't play that offensively since he doesn't have a gap closer or a good sustained damage compared to other champions. It's kinda annoying, do you know what the problem might be? Is Nasus just outclassed by other solo top champs or do I just fail :P? And I usually farm my Q good, at least I think so.
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DuffTime (670) | April 24, 2012 1:58pm
Lol sorry, when you get literally thousands and thousands of comments it becomes a bit of a chore to go through them all to find comments, but I've been considering the uploading of some videos.

I'll give you a definitive MAYBE! :D
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Wiwe | April 24, 2012 1:10pm
Lol, you're REALLY lazy if u can't even check that... Anyway, here the question comes again: (This is the question)---> Would you mind uploading some more videos when you play?<---(this is the question).

If you don't notice it now... Then you should check if you need glasses^^ And just in case you need glasses:
(This is the question)---> WOULD YOU MIND UPLOADING SOME MORE VIDEOS WHEN YOU PLAY?<---(this is the question).
Thanks, wiwe :D
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DuffTime (670) | April 23, 2012 2:07am
Fox Rage wrote:

This guide is almost 1 year old and is still legit. Grats Duff :p


Thanks man xD


Very nice, loved the article. I actually used a lot of these features while I Taric(Not the Trinity but the realization that HP isn't the answer). I initiate as a support occasionally and ward the whole map alone without a guide or carry. When your playing low ELO like you said people seem to think having 4k hp with 30 AR and 30 MR make you a tank. Made me a better support reading this.


Cheers man :)

Wiwe wrote:

Yes, I am. Is it you playing? Besides, you didn't answer my question XD.


Yeah that's me :)

Oh lol what did you ask? xD

XFFKarnage wrote:

Could you update somewhat? :D


Oh uhmmm :P Maybe I can later if I have time o:

Dake wrote:

Ok, so what would you change it to be a Skarner offtank?? Or maybe Skarner is not a candidate for this style?


I would just try to build like Dan Dinh :)
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Dake (1) | April 23, 2012 1:52am
DuffTime wrote:



That build is closer to tanky DPS but there's nothing wrong with that.



Ok, so what would you change it to be a Skarner offtank?? Or maybe Skarner is not a candidate for this style?
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XFFKarnage | April 22, 2012 5:40pm
Could you update somewhat? :D
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Wiwe | April 22, 2012 10:26am
DuffTime wrote:

You found a video of me? o_O

Are you referring to the video released by Vincent Legend?


Yes, I am. Is it you playing? Besides, you didn't answer my question XD.
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MandatedEnd (2) | April 22, 2012 9:58am
Very nice, loved the article. I actually used a lot of these features while I Taric(Not the Trinity but the realization that HP isn't the answer). I initiate as a support occasionally and ward the whole map alone without a guide or carry. When your playing low ELO like you said people seem to think having 4k hp with 30 AR and 30 MR make you a tank. Made me a better support reading this.
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Fox Rage (75) | April 21, 2012 8:09pm
This guide is almost 1 year old and is still legit. Grats Duff :p
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DuffTime (670) | April 21, 2012 8:02pm

Amazing guide! Big props to you!

Also do you think Volibear would be an efficient oftank? Once again great guide, thought me a lot! I would +10000000 you if I could!


Volibear would probably be pretty decent :P

Thanks man!

Wiwe wrote:

Would you mind uploading some videos when you are playing? It would be fun to see but I could only find one video on YT^^


You found a video of me? o_O

Are you referring to the video released by Vincent Legend?

loler123 wrote:

Hey DuffTime
I got a question,why not TriForce at irelia anymore?
Cheers


You still can, it's still good :)
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loler123 (1) | April 21, 2012 11:30am
Hey DuffTime
I got a question,why not TriForce at irelia anymore?
Cheers
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Wiwe | April 21, 2012 5:51am
Would you mind uploading some videos when you are playing? It would be fun to see but I could only find one video on YT^^
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kalomashinata | April 21, 2012 3:04am
Amazing guide! Big props to you! I myself am still somewhat a beginner, playing from 3 months now and sometimes I dont play so much, but recently I wanted to learn more and more about the game. I still dont play that much though, but playing league>better than sitting infront of the pc the whole day and doing nothing that enhances your though process. On to your guide again, its amazing. A lot of people only think mainstream and are close minded like you said. Ive learned that your build depends on the game itself, the opposing team, etc. Also you have to get items that bring more efficiency in a great variety. For example, though he is not an offtank and cant be one, Teemo usually is built only with AP and AST or AD, Crit and AST. I build teemo with items that give different stats in a great variety and my build depends highly on how the game is going. Also do you think Volibear would be an efficient oftank? Once again great guide, thought me a lot! I would +10000000 you if I could!
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DuffTime (670) | April 20, 2012 12:35pm
Dake wrote:

Hello. Dake here from US server. Been playing a while now, and there was some point in lv 30 where I though I was good... WRONG! Anyways, got learning some styles of play first as AP, and then switched to jungling as a lot of solo games dont have a jungler.
I was trying Skarner, and was doubtful about how to build him. Finally I got a kicking but combo on him, and after reading the guide I thought if this character fits into the term you are talking about it here.
Basic jungling with Skarner and the build is exactly as the guide here from SirSpankAlot, which is wriggle's,mercury, trinity, randiun's,atma's, and a last situational. Getting good results. But, my question really is, This build for skarner fits into your concept of off-tank??


That build is closer to tanky DPS but there's nothing wrong with that.

eyesburn wrote:

What about Shyvana? Could she be an off-tank? I usually build Trinity Force and Madred's for her. Rest of items are Wit's End, Sunfire Cape, FoN, Bloodthirster.


Well, that build is sorta confusing and not the best, but yes, Shyvanna is naturally tanky and damaging. :)
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eyesburn | April 20, 2012 7:21am
What about Shyvana? Could she be an off-tank? I usually build Trinity Force and Madred's for her. Rest of items are Wit's End, Sunfire Cape, FoN, Bloodthirster.
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Dake (1) | April 16, 2012 1:27pm
Hello. Dake here from US server. Been playing a while now, and there was some point in lv 30 where I though I was good... WRONG! Anyways, got learning some styles of play first as AP, and then switched to jungling as a lot of solo games dont have a jungler.
I was trying Skarner, and was doubtful about how to build him. Finally I got a kicking but combo on him, and after reading the guide I thought if this character fits into the term you are talking about it here.
Basic jungling with Skarner and the build is exactly as the guide here from SirSpankAlot, which is wriggle's,mercury, trinity, randiun's,atma's, and a last situational. Getting good results. But, my question really is, This build for skarner fits into your concept of off-tank??
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DuffTime (670) | April 16, 2012 12:16pm
Needlous wrote:

Wall of text. Really.


Yeappers!

Dat infamous "Duff" wall.

Hope you enjoyed.


dude this is so cool lol i was looking for a way to make a champ like this for a while, because the 2 most satisfying things in gaming are soaking up a ton of damage..and melting face with your own damage..i never thought to use trinity force..nice nice...also the thing about the calling mia...YES i tell people to play like its call of duty and watch the mini map more than their screen lol...saves my *** several times per game knowing to switch back and forth a lot


Cheers mate. I wouldn't watch it more, peripherals OP.

Good awareness though.
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kingcharles07 (2) | April 16, 2012 4:54am
dude this is so cool lol i was looking for a way to make a champ like this for a while, because the 2 most satisfying things in gaming are soaking up a ton of damage..and melting face with your own damage..i never thought to use trinity force..nice nice...also the thing about the calling mia...YES i tell people to play like its call of duty and watch the mini map more than their screen lol...saves my *** several times per game knowing to switch back and forth a lot
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Needlous (20) | April 15, 2012 10:17pm
Wall of text. Really.
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DuffTime (670) | April 10, 2012 2:37pm
Anyway, there's a lot of technicalities.

If you need the "undeniable" reason, it's that there's 10% reduction in masteries and 40% in void staff and last whisper. :P

Thanks for the comment ^_^
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Zathoichi | April 10, 2012 1:31pm
Really nice guide. Just one thing I would like to point out is that you'r abit off on the armor/resitance part.

If this:

"It's simple math. Take your armor, for example, and divide it 100 times + your armor, then multiply by 100."

is correct then each point of armor and resistance will give the same dmg reduction as the last. So aproximatly 11 armor will make you take 10% less dmg then what you did before regardless if you have 0 armor or 900.

900 armor gives 90% dmg recuction 911 gives about 91%. Wich makes a shot of a 100 dmg deal 9 dmg instead of 10 to you thus redusing the dmg you take by 10%.

0 armor gives 0%dmg reduction 11 gives about 10%. Wich makes a shot of 100 dmg deal 90 dmg instead of 100 to you thus redusing the dmg you take by 10%.

I have no idea how the final dmg is calculated ingame tho. So exactly what effect things like armorpen and last whisper has on the way it scales I do not know. However you'r example with the thornmails is bad cause each one would reduce incomming dmg as much as the next one.

And lastly I did not spend allot of time on this so I might be wrong, but I don't think I am :P
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DuffTime (670) | April 10, 2012 11:06am
Cheers :D
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Vietredneck | April 9, 2012 8:04pm
This was a fantastic guide. It opened my eyes to SO many different team strategies.
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DuffTime (670) | April 9, 2012 4:07pm
Atma's is fine on Mundo :)
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centurion911 (3) | April 9, 2012 11:39am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't an Atmas work with Mundo? It seems he has so much HP for his offtank build that an Atmas would work well. Or do the Madreads eliminate the need for it due to the passive that it has?

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I'm level 21 and am learning as much about the game as I can.

Other than that I really like these builds. I tend to build tanky to support my team and the Alistar/Mundo builds look really fun.
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DuffTime (670) | April 6, 2012 2:00pm
xD

Cheers mane, keep it up :D
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Supernigelman | April 6, 2012 9:58am
Amazing, I actually sat down and read the whole freaking thing because it was so compelling. Went full rambo with it on Jar (your build is pretty similiar to mine, but your pathway is so much better!) right after reading it and came out 4/3/15. Not a great score, but meh. Thanks a lot!
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DuffTime (670) | April 5, 2012 4:43pm
What a beast. You are the truest definition of "man."

Here, take these... You'll need them.

*Gives a pair of sunglasses*
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Wiwe | April 5, 2012 1:20pm
DuffTime wrote:


Yes, my Karthus guide was actually the highest rated Karthus guide on the site at one point, it reached 89%.

Clearly it was the best.


Yeah, I agree. Why did you archive it? It works really well, I have played 3 times with it, 100% win. These are my stats:

Sorry for the bad quality, but as I said, I'm new to using mobafire and this is the first time I upload an image in this way^^. Well, thanks again, this build works really well, others should try it too! (I hope you don't mind that I'm spamming comments DuffTime, if you want, I can stop :P).
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DuffTime (670) | April 4, 2012 11:01am
D3vnu11 wrote:

I can vouch for the Wukong part of this guide. It simply works for me, I usually play it safe and the general build and strategy for wu seem to work fine for my atm.

Thanks for a good all purpose builds :D


Cheers man :)

Wiwe wrote:



It was this guide that I followed, btw. This is my second post EVER on mobafire, so sorry if I got the quote wrong^^ http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/how-not-to-play-karthus-163799 .


Yes, my Karthus guide was actually the highest rated Karthus guide on the site at one point, it reached 89%.

Clearly it was the best.
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Wiwe | April 4, 2012 6:07am
Lord Drek wrote:

Aaaah xD.. where is it now? is it JhoiJhoi's bad karth guide..? that seems troll enought for me :D

Btw, can i PM you about the Meta game, i wanna know more aboput history and what it is changing to, if you dont mind :P

Cheers (copying you like a boss)


It was this guide that I followed, btw. This is my second post EVER on mobafire, so sorry if I got the quote wrong^^ http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/how-not-to-play-karthus-163799 .
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D3vnu11 | April 3, 2012 6:58pm
I can vouch for the Wukong part of this guide. It simply works for me, I usually play it safe and the general build and strategy for wu seem to work fine for my atm.

Thanks for a good all purpose builds :D
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DuffTime (670) | April 3, 2012 5:19pm
Sure~ :P
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Lord Drek (30) | April 3, 2012 11:53am
Aaaah xD.. where is it now? is it JhoiJhoi's bad karth guide..? that seems troll enought for me :D

Btw, can i PM you about the Meta game, i wanna know more aboput history and what it is changing to, if you dont mind :P

Cheers (copying you like a boss)
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DuffTime (670) | April 3, 2012 10:12am
Lord Drek wrote:

Well, yea ur right, he missed it totaly :P
And yeah, Irelia with Croki build sure isnt the best :3

Just got the feeling you never tried Tanky DPS Irelia, or think she's patethic with Tanky DPS, but you don't as it seems :D

"I won't consider your experience more valid than mine, as I've also played hundreds and hundreds of games, but I appreciate the feedback."

I said that about the games so you wouldn't treat me like a guy saying soemthing he does not know, i didnt say im more experianced with you (not even with Irelia).

Yeah, it was fun when i was reading that what you were saying about future meta, and it actually is the meta now.. tho i was wondering if you know how to caunter this meta? Im a solotop fan, but im still gettign sick of this meta, always the same.

Thanks for reply :)


Well the reality is that at the higher levels of play the "meta" is starting to evaporate. You see some wonky stuff happening, so that's good :)

When there is no meta game, the game is probably almost balanced.

Wiwe wrote:

Hi Dufftime,


Lol xD

This post was fun to read. Cheers :P

Lord Drek wrote:

Well, its surley not your job to initiate, so its parly your fault..
Also, shooting thier carry ut of teamfight is probably worst thing that you can do, as you wont be able to focus him as you would want... and last, Duff has no karthus guide...


I had a super troll Karthus guide :P
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Lord Drek (30) | April 3, 2012 9:02am
Well, its surley not your job to initiate, so its parly your fault..
Also, shooting thier carry ut of teamfight is probably worst thing that you can do, as you wont be able to focus him as you would want... and last, Duff has no karthus guide...
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Wiwe | April 3, 2012 7:50am
Hi Dufftime, I'm not sure where to put this post. But I'm really grateful for all the guides that you make. I've tried a few and they are really good, the only reason I usually lose is because my team is bad:(.

An example of the teams I usually play with:
Once when I played vayne and followed your 'REAL VAYNE' build. I pinged twice to signal that I wanted to start a teamfight at mid lane. So, I ulti and flash in and the tank just STAYS there, why didn't he flash in after me to tank?! Anyway, I managed to use my E on their ad carry to shoot him away so he couldn't damage me, then I started shooting at volibear who were on half hp. AND WHAT IS MY TEAM DOING MEANWHILE?! Camping at the turret. Then calling me a noob cause I die... It's THEIR fault ffs... They also complained about me focusing volibear cause he is a tank. But OFC I should focus him since he was staking health and my W and madreds do max hp based damage.

I really liked your karthus guide too. It works REALLY well. In the first game I played using your build I got 7/5/11 (I have only played one) and won the game. Idk why our singed called me a troll, even though he was the best player on our team, he only had 10/7/13, not THAT big difference. And besides, their karthus had 4/11/4.

Keep the good work up DuffTime! Thanks / Wiwe
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Lord Drek (30) | April 3, 2012 3:34am
Well, yea ur right, he missed it totaly :P
And yeah, Irelia with Croki build sure isnt the best :3

Just got the feeling you never tried Tanky DPS Irelia, or think she's patethic with Tanky DPS, but you don't as it seems :D

"I won't consider your experience more valid than mine, as I've also played hundreds and hundreds of games, but I appreciate the feedback."

I said that about the games so you wouldn't treat me like a guy saying soemthing he does not know, i didnt say im more experianced with you (not even with Irelia).

Yeah, it was fun when i was reading that what you were saying about future meta, and it actually is the meta now.. tho i was wondering if you know how to caunter this meta? Im a solotop fan, but im still gettign sick of this meta, always the same.

Thanks for reply :)
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DuffTime (670) | April 2, 2012 2:03pm
Imdrail wrote:

What do you think about warwick as offtank?
He has a great sustain early to mid game coming with a lot of damage and late game he is usually so fed, that you can hardly kill him 3vs1
Nice guide right now trying to play irelia :P


Yeah since his rework it works well enough :P

Lord Drek wrote:

Very nice guide on the meta though, i'd like to say that the guy descrribing tanky DPS Irelia didnt miss it totaly.
you said : "Seriously guy, you're way out of your league right now. You're describing a tanky DPS Irelia build, or perhaps a modified Off-tank. (Not even)"

Well, but the point is, why waste Irelia's gerat damage potential? you need 2 more DMG items, that are half defensive, and you're super ultra carry for just that 5.8k of bonus gold.

You may say you proc Sheen on Irelia 24/7 "her Q procs it automaticlly, her R does 4 procs..." But, do you? Usually, when you charge in twamfight, you spamm the sh#t outa yourself, and go Q-W-E-R-R-R-R in a matter of 3-5 seconds.. That is only 2-3 procs, So actually, you dont end up doing much damage with trinity tank setup at all. IF you build Irelia this way : Mercury's Treads, Wit's End, Trinity Force, Randuin's Omen, Banshee's Veil and finally, Madred's Bloodrazor, your Hiten Style becomes your main DMG output, as it should be. 75(W) +180(AD) +4%HP +42/Wit) +150%AD +120(Q) is a sick nuke, which will deal around 670 dmg, no rsistances factored, not to mention your AS is about 1.5-6 which means 75+180+120+42 1.5 times / 1 sec is quite fearsome dps... While secrefising only little points of armor and mr, as you end up with 220 of both, having bad dimishing returns alrdy... IF you buid, trinity tank way, you get to 300 armor, which is pretty useless, and tbh, bruisers,tanks, off tanks ignore you, and carry can outheal a big part of your damage on him. Trust me, i experianced it, i plaid 300 games with Trinuty tank Irelia. Then i swiched onto Tanky DPS, when i came to higher ELO, because Trinity tank is just not enought dmg, sadly.. i had some beast scores with Trinity tank way tho.

But +1 in general, love how you explain it all :) (I expect an reply to this, tho)


Thanks for the response.

Actually he did completely miss the mark. This is not a guide about the best way to build Irelia. This is a guide about how to Offtank with various champions.

Besides he didn't even really describe tanky DPS. He essentially described a build you might use on Corki.

So yeah he was way off.

If you enjoy Tanky DPS Irelia that's great, this guide isn't about that though. :P

I won't consider your experience more valid than mine, as I've also played hundreds and hundreds of games, but I appreciate the feedback.

This guide is really old though, not everything in it is fully relevant now but it does have some good information which is why I haven't archived it.

Cheers ^_^
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Lord Drek (30) | April 2, 2012 12:03pm
Very nice guide on the meta though, i'd like to say that the guy descrribing tanky DPS Irelia didnt miss it totaly.
you said : "Seriously guy, you're way out of your league right now. You're describing a tanky DPS Irelia build, or perhaps a modified Off-tank. (Not even)"

Well, but the point is, why waste Irelia's gerat damage potential? you need 2 more DMG items, that are half defensive, and you're super ultra carry for just that 5.8k of bonus gold.

You may say you proc Sheen on Irelia 24/7 "her Q procs it automaticlly, her R does 4 procs..." But, do you? Usually, when you charge in twamfight, you spamm the sh#t outa yourself, and go Q-W-E-R-R-R-R in a matter of 3-5 seconds.. That is only 2-3 procs, So actually, you dont end up doing much damage with trinity tank setup at all. IF you build Irelia this way : Mercury's Treads, Wit's End, Trinity Force, Randuin's Omen, Banshee's Veil and finally, Madred's Bloodrazor, your Hiten Style becomes your main DMG output, as it should be. 75(W) +180(AD) +4%HP +42/Wit) +150%AD +120(Q) is a sick nuke, which will deal around 670 dmg, no rsistances factored, not to mention your AS is about 1.5-6 which means 75+180+120+42 1.5 times / 1 sec is quite fearsome dps... While secrefising only little points of armor and mr, as you end up with 220 of both, having bad dimishing returns alrdy... IF you buid, trinity tank way, you get to 300 armor, which is pretty useless, and tbh, bruisers,tanks, off tanks ignore you, and carry can outheal a big part of your damage on him. Trust me, i experianced it, i plaid 300 games with Trinuty tank Irelia. Then i swiched onto Tanky DPS, when i came to higher ELO, because Trinity tank is just not enought dmg, sadly.. i had some beast scores with Trinity tank way tho.

But +1 in general, love how you explain it all :) (I expect an reply to this, tho)
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Imdrail (1) | April 2, 2012 10:47am
What do you think about warwick as offtank?
He has a great sustain early to mid game coming with a lot of damage and late game he is usually so fed, that you can hardly kill him 3vs1
Nice guide right now trying to play irelia :P
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DuffTime (670) | March 26, 2012 10:10am
Good for you *******!

Don't wink at me kid. Winks are for women, friends, and family. You are not my friend or my family, and women don't exist on the internet.

Flattering though, really.
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ElderWand | March 25, 2012 4:53am
+1
I liked the concept but down-voted for attitude ;)
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DuffTime (670) | March 18, 2012 10:04pm
Not going to discuss this again unfortunately. Done it too many times.
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Lethadind (2) | March 16, 2012 8:52pm
DuffTime wrote:
Thank you for your effort, but it doesn't play out, and it's not been changed because it doesn't play out.

Effective health is ******** and it's even worse in games with % reduction on statistics.

Thanks for the thought though! Cheers.


Errr...doesn't play out? No idea what that means. That's how the math works bro. It's math, whether you agree that effective health is what it is or not, the reduction is exactly how it works.

I agree that "effective health" is not necessarily as powerful as it seems (I think that's what you're saying), but the myth that there are diminishing returns is 100% false. The 101st point of armor does exactly the same as the 1st, in terms of your physical damage survivability.

Please enlighten me as to what you mean, because apparently there are differences in understanding here. The only possibility I can think of is % damage reduction items like Ninja Tabi that would screw with the math, but those are so few and far between that that can't possibly be what you're talking about.
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DuffTime (670) | March 16, 2012 12:08pm

Thank you very much for the heads up. Will certainly start playing more with lee sin, instead of spamming irelia all games xD
BTW, Awesome guide ;D


Yeap, Lee Sin baby!

Nighthawk wrote:

lol as a luxury item damage is fine, no biggie.

But lategame you get more burst from Scepter, end of story. Having to auto attack someone =/= burst.

Also I personally don't think Lich is all that great on Morde, but wtf, why go tank? Ever. EVAAAH.


You could not be any more incorrect. Lich Bane gives you more burst than Abyssal does, and there is literally no arguing this. How can you even think otherwise? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard lolz.

Tanky Morde is the best way to go. In lane spellvamp and AP, and later transitioning into a tanky Morde is really strong.

Babriel wrote:

Dude really?
Having to autoattack someone makes no difference if you have a gap closer, which i know sion doesnt.
BUT he has a 1.5 second stun(aka even better since they are locked down under tons of damage), as well as having 8% more move speed from lich bane, and sion is very fast. You will close that distance in less than a second.

Also, sions ap scaling on his abilites is good, 90%, but with a level 5 e up, combined with your already about 350+ ap you will probably autoattack for at least 500 damage.
This is after the 500+ damage from you stun.
1000 damage and a 1.5 second stun put down in under a second, and thats not good burst?

EDIT: Lich bane also gives more AP anyway :P


He's high on some hard drugs or hard trolling or something. There's no way a person could really believe what he's saying.

Lethadind wrote:

I don't know if someone has mentioned this yet, likely they have with 137 pages of comments that I'm not going to sift through, but you haven't changed it in your guide yet if they have.


Thank you for your effort, but it doesn't play out, and it's not been changed because it doesn't play out.

Effective health is ******** and it's even worse in games with % reduction on statistics.

Thanks for the thought though! Cheers.
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Lethadind (2) | March 16, 2012 11:59am
I don't know if someone has mentioned this yet, likely they have with 137 pages of comments that I'm not going to sift through, but you haven't changed it in your guide yet if they have.

Your thinking about resistances is entirely false. While the amount reduced is, in fact, diminishing, each point of armor or MR is just as effective as all the previous ones before it. Every 100 resistance increases your effective health against that type of damage by your base health.

Don't believe me? Check out the math.

100 armor = 50%
200 armor = 66.7%
300 armor = 75%

Ok. Say we have 1000 HP (for convention's sake), and their champion does exactly 100 damage (once again, to make the math easy), therefore since the damage isn't random in LoL, they will kill you in EXACTLY 10 hits with 0 armor

With 100 armor they are now doing 50 damage, and it takes EXACTLY 20 hits

With 200 armor they are doing 33.3 damage, and it takes EXACTLY 30 hits

300 armor, 25 damage, exactly 40 hits.

People see the diminishing returns effect in the resistance and don't think further than that, but it truly is a flat return to how effective you are against that type of attack. Think of it in terms of "Damage received" rather than "damage reduced." 100 armor is 50% damage received, 200 is 33.3%, 300 is 25%, 400 is 20%, etc. It makes the math a little easier to see (25% is half of 50%, therefore you are twice as effective. Looking at it from a reduction side, 75% is only 1.5x as big as 50%, so it makes it confusing).

Other than that blurb I think you have interesting ideas. It would obviously work best in premade 5v5 or at least duo premade where both of you can call what lane you want and just say "trust us" when people rage. You may want to mention that.

Thinking originally is what wins you games. I once saw an AP Master Yi destroy my team because we didn't know how to deal with him. He'd basically just tank us because he'd rush in, destroy us with Alpha Strike, and then sit there and heal for more health than we could damage him while his team tore us apart. I actually saw another offtank Yi that did the same thing. He just built tanky, with damage, and he had so much sustain that no one could kill him. Slightly different concept than what you're talking about but it brushes along the same "think outside the box" idea, so kudos to you! :)
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Babriel | March 16, 2012 9:38am
Nighthawk wrote:

lol as a luxury item damage is fine, no biggie.

But lategame you get more burst from Scepter, end of story. Having to auto attack someone =/= burst.

Also I personally don't think Lich is all that great on Morde, but wtf, why go tank? Ever. EVAAAH.

Dude really?
Having to autoattack someone makes no difference if you have a gap closer, which i know sion doesnt.
BUT he has a 1.5 second stun(aka even better since they are locked down under tons of damage), as well as having 8% more move speed from lich bane, and sion is very fast. You will close that distance in less than a second.

Also, sions ap scaling on his abilites is good, 90%, but with a level 5 e up, combined with your already about 350+ ap you will probably autoattack for at least 500 damage.
This is after the 500+ damage from you stun.
1000 damage and a 1.5 second stun put down in under a second, and thats not good burst?

EDIT: Lich bane also gives more AP anyway :P
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Nighthawk (677) | March 15, 2012 4:16pm
DuffTime wrote:



WTF LOL.

Okay, you always want damage, and you want it even more on a burst oriented champ. Late game you need Lich Bane or you're completely useless on Sion. If you can't 1 shot something with Sion you're not very useful. You need DFG and Lich Bane.

You want move speed. You want MR. You want damage. Lich bane is the better pick up. We're buying a Void Staff already, no need for the 20 Mpen. Lich Bane is without a doubt the better item here, end of story.


lol as a luxury item damage is fine, no biggie.

But lategame you get more burst from Scepter, end of story. Having to auto attack someone =/= burst.

Also I personally don't think Lich is all that great on Morde, but wtf, why go tank? Ever. EVAAAH.
1
[-]
SoulofApocalpse | March 15, 2012 1:06pm
DuffTime wrote:


I think that as far as Offtanks go, Cho is close to the top. Alistar is good. Irelia is good.

Play more Lee Sin. Lee Sin is amazing, solo top AND in jungle. That versatility will benefit you as a player.



Thank you very much for the heads up. Will certainly start playing more with lee sin, instead of spamming irelia all games xD
BTW, Awesome guide ;D
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | March 15, 2012 10:30am
Nighthawk wrote:

yeah, except my opinion is correct, and yours is wrong :P

Lich gives you damage, which lategame you won't even -want-, early game deathcap or dfg is better, midgame deathcap or dfg is better, lategame scepter is better because it increases your burst, and ap sion is all about burst, not sustained dps.

Lichbane increases your auto attack damage, Scepter increases your burst on all your skills as well as dfg, all lich does is give you movespeed, and it can be good if you are getting a luxury item during laning phase since once you ult you can lifesteal up a ton (although you do that without lich so w/e).

EDIT:

Also just as an interesting bit of information, Scarra at IEM bought Scepter on every Morde game he played, and never bought Lich. OFC the cases are different (although I think Morde uses Lich better), but just so you know Scepter isn't a -bad- item.


Late game, Lich Bane is better because it increases your burst by 800 instead of 80.

Lich Bane increases your burst potential, and with a character who practically gets in melee range alreadty, and has a targeted stun, and fairly low cooldowns, i really can't see why it would be worse than something like abyssal scepter.

Also wtf? You don't want damage late game on Sion?

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

No, Lich is only good on morde if you don't need tank.

Scepter isn't bad, Lichbane is just better on sion.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | March 15, 2012 10:15am

Loved and Fav'd the guide. I have a question though.

1st: im not even lvl 30, but i love playing off-tanks. started with Olaf, buyed Irelia and Lee Sin afterwards.



IMO, Irelia is still pretty damn OP, but in regards of what you said, who's the best offtank out there atm?

Another question is which one is the "best" Offtank, out of those available for me: Irela Solo Top, Lee Sin Solo Top or Lee Sin Jungle?


I think that as far as Offtanks go, Cho is close to the top. Alistar is good. Irelia is good.

Play more Lee Sin. Lee Sin is amazing, solo top AND in jungle. That versatility will benefit you as a player.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | March 15, 2012 10:04am
Nighthawk wrote:

yeah, except it isnt :P

Lich gives you damage, which lategame you won't even -want-, early game deathcap or dfg is better, midgame deathcap or dfg is better, lategame scepter is better because it increases your burst, and ap sion is all about burst, not sustained dps.

Lichbane increases your auto attack damage, Scepter increases your burst on all your skills as well as dfg, all lich does is give you movespeed, and it can be good if you are getting a luxury item during laning phase since once you ult you can lifesteal up a ton (although you do that without lich so w/e).

EDIT:

Also just as an interesting bit of information, Scarra at IEM bought Scepter on every Morde game he played, and never bought Lich. OFC the cases are different (although I think Morde uses Lich better), but just so you know Scepter isn't a -bad- item.


WTF LOL.

Okay, you always want damage, and you want it even more on a burst oriented champ. Late game you need Lich Bane or you're completely useless on Sion. If you can't 1 shot something with Sion you're not very useful. You need DFG and Lich Bane.

You want move speed. You want MR. You want damage. Lich bane is the better pick up. We're buying a Void Staff already, no need for the 20 Mpen. Lich Bane is without a doubt the better item here, end of story.
1
[-]
Nighthawk (677) | March 14, 2012 6:18pm
Temzilla wrote:



I personally think Scepter is a huge waste of money :P

Oh and Lich is way better than Scepter :P

SEE WUT I DID THAR?


yeah, except it isnt :P

Lich gives you damage, which lategame you won't even -want-, early game deathcap or dfg is better, midgame deathcap or dfg is better, lategame scepter is better because it increases your burst, and ap sion is all about burst, not sustained dps.

Lichbane increases your auto attack damage, Scepter increases your burst on all your skills as well as dfg, all lich does is give you movespeed, and it can be good if you are getting a luxury item during laning phase since once you ult you can lifesteal up a ton (although you do that without lich so w/e).

EDIT:

Also just as an interesting bit of information, Scarra at IEM bought Scepter on every Morde game he played, and never bought Lich. OFC the cases are different (although I think Morde uses Lich better), but just so you know Scepter isn't a -bad- item.
1
[-]
SoulofApocalpse | March 14, 2012 12:06pm
Loved and Fav'd the guide. I have a question though.

1st: im not even lvl 30, but i love playing off-tanks. started with Olaf, buyed Irelia and Lee Sin afterwards.

Quoted:
Jarvan and Irelia are NO LONGER the optimal candidates for Trinity Tank builds since their nerfs.


IMO, Irelia is still pretty damn OP, but in regards of what you said, who's the best offtank out there atm?

Another question is which one is the "best" Offtank, out of those available for me: Irela Solo Top, Lee Sin Solo Top or Lee Sin Jungle?
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | March 14, 2012 10:39am
Nighthawk wrote:

I personally think Lichbane is a huge waste of money :P

Oh and Scepter is way better then Lich :P


I personally think Scepter is a huge waste of money :P

Oh and Lich is way better than Scepter :P

SEE WUT I DID THAR?
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | March 14, 2012 9:54am
Not in any way shape or form. 100% incorrect.
1
[-]
Nighthawk (677) | March 13, 2012 4:02pm
I personally think Lichbane is a huge waste of money :P

Oh and Scepter is way better then Lich :P
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | March 13, 2012 10:29am
Avendil wrote:

Hey duff.
I know I have already posted on yout guide and upvoted it but I have some questions about your build on Irelia, which is my favorite off-tank:
1)Why don't you use tryforce on her anymore? If I am not mistaken you previously used it and I thinks that it still is kinda very efficient.
2)Do you think that we should, now that dodge doesn t exist anymore, use yellow flat armor?
3) seeing of the amount of HP that you get with this build at the 18th level, wouldn't an atma be more cost/efficient than a madred blood razor as a last item?
4)Still about the madred... As an offtank, one of your most important targets are the carry, but they don't have a lot of HP, which madred is all about, so I have a hard time understanding why this item is chosen.
Even if I ask questions, I'll say it again, I am very happy using this guide and it is realy efficient, but I'd like to understand more easily WHY it is so efficient ^^.

PS: sorry for my bad english.
With a lot of respect.
Avendil.



Hi Avendil. :P

1) I don't play Irelia much anymore. Triforce is still a good item on her, you are correct.

2) Go for it. :p HP lvl is good too.

3) Madred > Atma's, but the problem is it's more expensive. It works with W, it kills tanks, it's better. Up to you though.

Enjoy.

Babriel wrote:

Yo, Duff.
I've been testing out something which has to do with this offtankyness(epic word) thing.
Im building sion AP since that lets his abilities do something and building similar to how you show your maokai built, but it isnt working out.
It seems to be more geared towards dps, but im not getting a really good ap level going without losing my tankyness.
Any advice?


That's because AP offtank Sion sucks SO hard.

Don't ever build AP offtank Sion :P

Something like what Nighthawk said, except no GA and no RoA.

AP Sion wants like...

DFG / Raba / Lich Bane / Void Staff / Zhonya's
1
[-]
Nighthawk (677) | March 12, 2012 6:02pm
if you want to build Sion like an AP offtank, just build RoA, GA, Deathcap, DFG, Scepter, Hourglass, boots, etc.

AP sion can't not be built with AP because without it he's pretty useless lategame and you have to build some AP early in order to da damagez.
1
[-]
Babriel | March 12, 2012 5:58pm
Yo, Duff.
I've been testing out something which has to do with this offtankyness(epic word) thing.
Im building sion AP since that lets his abilities do something and building similar to how you show your maokai built, but it isnt working out.
It seems to be more geared towards dps, but im not getting a really good ap level going without losing my tankyness.
Any advice?
1
[-]
Avendil | March 10, 2012 6:32am
Hey duff.
I know I have already posted on yout guide and upvoted it but I have some questions about your build on Irelia, which is my favorite off-tank:
1)Why don't you use tryforce on her anymore? If I am not mistaken you previously used it and I thinks that it still is kinda very efficient.
2)Do you think that we should, now that dodge doesn t exist anymore, use yellow flat armor?
3) seeing of the amount of HP that you get with this build at the 18th level, wouldn't an atma be more cost/efficient than a madred blood razor as a last item?
4)Still about the madred... As an offtank, one of your most important targets are the carry, but they don't have a lot of HP, which madred is all about, so I have a hard time understanding why this item is chosen.
Even if I ask questions, I'll say it again, I am very happy using this guide and it is realy efficient, but I'd like to understand more easily WHY it is so efficient ^^.

PS: sorry for my bad english.
With a lot of respect.
Avendil.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | March 6, 2012 11:29am
Mallahet wrote:

Who would you chose to counter Olaf top lane? Got my *** beat trying Cho top lane the other day. Granted, it's probably a skill-level mismatch more than anything. I was also sad because I wanted to pick Brolaf..


Junglers counter him. Tell your jungle that Olaf is an aggressive top with no escapes and just gank him a lot.


Very nice guide dufftime +1. I have never tried building a blitzcrank with trinity force but i will now. :D


****'s too good son. I recommend it more for 3v3 o:

Presunto wrote:

So? Do you know what updating the guide means? You also say that the guide is fresh but it's extremely outdated. I mean, the current meta has been in use for almost an year.


Well that's a rather odd question to ask. It's almost as if you're insinuating that I don't speak English, as I consider "Updating the guide" to be very easy to comprehend. It would almost seem as if you're trying to insult me, and what would be rather pointless since I don't give a **** about your opinion or your thoughts.

Where did I say it was fresh? I updated the builds but the written aspect is very old.

Do you know how pointless updating a guide about a new meta game is, when the content described isn't even NEW ANYMORE LOL! Run along child, run along you're boring me.
1
[-]
Presunto | March 6, 2012 9:41am
DuffTime wrote:



Hi, look at the date posted wise guy.

So? Do you know what updating the guide means? You also say that the guide is fresh but it's extremely outdated. I mean, the current meta has been in use for almost an year.
1
[-]
Leviathan760 | March 5, 2012 1:33pm
Very nice guide dufftime +1. I have never tried building a blitzcrank with trinity force but i will now. :D
1
[-]
Mallahet | March 5, 2012 11:58am
Who would you chose to counter Olaf top lane? Got my *** beat trying Cho top lane the other day. Granted, it's probably a skill-level mismatch more than anything. I was also sad because I wanted to pick Brolaf..
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | March 4, 2012 11:38am
Wallydxd wrote:

ty ty ty ty!!
never seen a build like this
and i most say this build is so epic!
really usefull and lots of fun
last fight i mad 15/2/5
i must say this build is epic!

and again Thank You!


Good stuff man ^_^


Duff , why Jarvan IV isnt viable for off-tanking anymore ? :C I've got him , and i'd REALLY want to find a way to do it well. Please , which nerfs hurt him so bad ?

EDIT: And , wouldnt maxing Demacian Standard 1st be better ?


Ehmmm. He can still do it, it's just hard.

He loses a lot of solo top match ups.

You can max that if you prefer, but it's less poke damage.
1
[-]
Fly0nTheWall (2) | March 4, 2012 7:55am
Duff , why Jarvan IV isnt viable for off-tanking anymore ? :C I've got him , and i'd REALLY want to find a way to do it well. Please , which nerfs hurt him so bad ?

EDIT: And , wouldnt maxing Demacian Standard 1st be better ?
1
[-]
Wallydxd | March 2, 2012 2:24pm
ty ty ty ty!!
never seen a build like this
and i most say this build is so epic!
really usefull and lots of fun
last fight i mad 15/2/5
i must say this build is epic!

and again Thank You!
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | March 2, 2012 11:26am
Presunto wrote:

How can someone not even know the metagame?


Hi, look at the date posted wise guy.
1
[-]
Presunto | March 1, 2012 9:54am
Quoted:
The current meta game in mid ELO is simple. You have 2 solo lanes, 1 jungler, and 2 champs in a duo lane bottom. Generally, the AD carry takes mid, the AP carry takes top, and then you've got either a tank or a support bottom lane, and any champion capable of jungling and ganking in the jungle.


How can someone not even know the metagame?
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 27, 2012 10:44am
Cheers, hahah.
1
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ReturnOfTheBurials (2) | February 27, 2012 1:22am
It's truly quite a new strategy! and one thing i love in video-games is a well organised and pure strategy :] you've got a vote from me Mr Duff. I haven't put Trinity Force to the test yet [mainly because i don't have many tanks even though i love tanking] but i decided to hang on to your math jiberish since they're actually true :P Thank you for your effort ^ ^
1
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DuffTime (670) | February 22, 2012 4:48pm
Nope, thanks.
1
[-]
INSANEghosit | February 22, 2012 10:49am
come on, why don't you put another 5 h work in it for the coding ;)
1
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DuffTime (670) | February 22, 2012 10:10am
The Zekes seems out of place, probly a BT would be a better option there.

That build is fine, but actually Renekton uses Trinity Force just fine as well.
1
[-]
Nerun (27) | February 22, 2012 7:40am
Ok, Currently I'm playing renekton as something in-between an offtank and an actual tanky DPS, I'd say...

Since he CANNOT fully benefit from Trinity, I was wondering, what would be a good idea for him?

I currently run:

Zeke's Herald

And I'm quite sure that I'm lacking either skill or stats because I'm either dying too soon or not dealing much damage during any random skirmish...

Could I have your advice on how to build Ren, duff?

Thanks in advance!
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 21, 2012 9:19am

i lol'd at that troll downvote about the irelia build..


Lawl me too :P
1
[-]
HtG DarkElf (6) | February 20, 2012 6:27am
i lol'd at that troll downvote about the irelia build..
1
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DuffTime (670) | February 15, 2012 11:19am
Interesting o_o
1
[-]
Temzilla (211) | February 14, 2012 11:28am
I know dyrus plays top Nocturne and HotshotGG has been known to play him.

Both play him as a counter to riven I think.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 14, 2012 11:25am
Yeah sure ^_^

Melee's are good, and I think both can use trinity force fairly well to boot.

I do prefer fro-mal shyvanna though.
1
[-]
zconner33 | February 13, 2012 10:48am
Hey Duff,

I was wondering how nocturne and shyvana would do as an off tank. I know they are conventionally played in the jungle but sometimes in my low level games, people are even uncomfortable playing with a jungler, but I enjoy playing these champs greatly. And if they are good off tanks, should they be built with trin force u think? Btw i loved the guide, and I'm glad to see a real guide on here for once. Thanks!
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 8, 2012 10:06am
Cheers mate! MtG > YuGiOj xD
1
[-]
animorte (45) | February 8, 2012 2:08am
I have noticed for quite some time that Off-tanks have stolen the lead in top picks (maybe not as far as highest level ranked tournament bans and such). They have just been proven so many times to be able to solo que and not have to rely on everybody else. I hate having to rely on people I don't know because, more often than not, that loses games.

"or are you that kid who quit magic the gathering for Yu-Gi-Oh because the numbers were bigger?"
That made me laugh so hard. I have always been a Magic the Gathering player. I don't exactly know how to explain it, but the stye is much preferred by anyone that likes a more mature level of strategy. Fellow Magic players understand. :P

+Rep (as if you need it, haha) for taking the time to do it, knowing what you are talking about, and (above all) not giving half a rat's hindparts about the haters'/trolls' opinions. Also, guide added to my favourites list. :)
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 7, 2012 3:30pm
Well, the bit about effective health and mathematically always giving the same returns and yada yada isn't true either, but the basic bottom concept is no matter how you look at it, it's not the best way.

That section in the guide isn't incorrect.

I'll check your guide.
1
[-]
DarkPercy (151) | February 7, 2012 2:29pm
DuffTime wrote:


DarkPercy, thanks for the guide is awesome bit, and please, pardon me if this comes off as irritable, but do you legitimately believe you are the first person to express this concern in regards to effective health to me? You're probably the tenth or fifteenth to try.

Even on a basic level, the logic fails. Since I'm not patient enough to go trhough it again, I'll just go the easier path and bring up the 10% armor and magic pen masteries and the 40% pen items like Void Staff and Last Whisper.

Suddenly stacking resistances doesn't work as well regardless and the concept is easy to agree with.

Glad you enjoyed most of the guide!


Oh well, sorry for that then xD.

Just to make sure you understand my point (you probably already do), I'm not saying that stacking Resistances is good. In fact it's really not true. I just wanted you to remove the part where you show maths to prove that stacking resistance gives less and less reduced damage as you get more.


It is wrong but yeah...

Maybe you could say that when your resistances are high, getting HP will boost up your effective HP by MUCH MORE than getting even more resistances. So yeah stacking resistance is still bad :P.

Again, sorry if you already know all this, just making sure xD.

PS: Can you check out my Master Yi guide quickly and maybe tell me a thing or two that I could improve :D?
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 7, 2012 10:04am
magestik12 wrote:

Just played the Blitz build - it was awesome. I was so damn tanky, provided crazy crowd control, helped my teammates escape almost anything, and I could escape almost anything. Awesome guide.
+1


Cool thanks :)

Glad it worked out for ya!
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 7, 2012 10:01am
DarkPercy wrote:

This guide is awesome.

There's one thing I really want to point out. Your section about resistances is absolutely wrong.

Against popular belief, Resistances do NOT have diminishing returns and that is because it directly interacts with Health Points.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_resistance

This link sums it up well.

Because Magic Resist and Armor are multiplied by HP, they become more and more effective.
When you get Magic Resist, your health becomes more resistant, if you combine MR and HP together it becomes what we call ''Effective HP''


Here's an example:

Effective Health = Health x (100+MR)/100

For the sake of simplicity, let's say a champion has 1000 Health.

If you have 50 MR: 1000 x (100+50)/100 = 1500 Effective HP

That means the enemy has to deal 1500 magic damage to kill you

If you have 100 MR: 1000 x (100+100)/100 = 2000 Effective HP

So if you get +50 MR, you get + 500 Effective HP. To prove that this works no matter how much MR you got, here's an example:

600 MR: 1000 x (100+600)/100 = 7000 Effective HP

650 MR: 1000 x (100+650)/100 = 7500 Effective HP




So yep, Magic Resist and Armor always give the same amount of survivability no matter how much you already got.


DarkPercy, thanks for the guide is awesome bit, and please, pardon me if this comes off as irritable, but do you legitimately believe you are the first person to express this concern in regards to effective health to me? You're probably the tenth or fifteenth to try.

Even on a basic level, the logic fails. Since I'm not patient enough to go trhough it again, I'll just go the easier path and bring up the 10% armor and magic pen masteries and the 40% pen items like Void Staff and Last Whisper.

Suddenly stacking resistances doesn't work as well regardless and the concept is easy to agree with.

Glad you enjoyed most of the guide!
1
[-]
magestik12 | February 7, 2012 5:09am
Just played the Blitz build - it was awesome. I was so damn tanky, provided crazy crowd control, helped my teammates escape almost anything, and I could escape almost anything. Awesome guide.
+1
1
[-]
DarkPercy (151) | February 6, 2012 9:19pm
This guide is awesome.

There's one thing I really want to point out. Your section about resistances is absolutely wrong.

Against popular belief, Resistances do NOT have diminishing returns and that is because it directly interacts with Health Points.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_resistance

This link sums it up well.

Because Magic Resist and Armor are multiplied by HP, they become more and more effective.
When you get Magic Resist, your health becomes more resistant, if you combine MR and HP together it becomes what we call ''Effective HP''


Here's an example:

Effective Health = Health x (100+MR)/100

For the sake of simplicity, let's say a champion has 1000 Health.

If you have 50 MR: 1000 x (100+50)/100 = 1500 Effective HP

That means the enemy has to deal 1500 magic damage to kill you

If you have 100 MR: 1000 x (100+100)/100 = 2000 Effective HP

So if you get +50 MR, you get + 500 Effective HP. To prove that this works no matter how much MR you got, here's an example:

600 MR: 1000 x (100+600)/100 = 7000 Effective HP

650 MR: 1000 x (100+650)/100 = 7500 Effective HP




So yep, Magic Resist and Armor always give the same amount of survivability no matter how much you already got.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 6, 2012 4:39pm
... >:P

Mundo only playable in 3v3.
1
[-]
Embracing (348) | February 6, 2012 12:43am
Jongle Mondo :D
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 6, 2012 12:26am
It's situationally purchasable.
1
[-]
Barkkyy | February 5, 2012 6:18pm
Thornmail is an awesome item half the time when I play a PVP match. Anytime I play a match there are 2-4 AD Carries on the other team for some reason that build PDs, BTs, and IEs with Berserker Greaves. Its really annoying to face and everyone thinks there are amazing and the best LoL player because all they do is right click and kill one person in 4 hits. I play as a tank half the time now and get Thornmail and watch them basically kill themselves because of Thornmail's passive. After a while, the team fears me and runs for their lives.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | February 5, 2012 12:11pm
We'll see :P

Not sure anything has really changed functionally yet.
1
[-]
Embracing (348) | February 5, 2012 6:44am
Expecting Mundo build updates? :)
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | January 23, 2012 10:31am
New Ninja Tabi are not as good as the old ones, but, they are still a fantastic pick up and a great value for their cost.
1
[-]
Mallahet | January 23, 2012 6:49am
In that vein, do you think Ninja Tabi are as effective as they used to be for Irelia and Olaf? Or is it pretty much back to Merc Treads for a majority of the time? (Obviously everything is still situational..) Just curious if you like them as much with their change.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | January 22, 2012 6:58pm
Senac wrote:

Woot.. Thanks for giving me something to do while I eat my dinner.

I'll go try this offtanky thing right off. See you later!


Kewl :)


Hey duff, when are you planning on changing your guides now that dodge is removed completely? And is it just going to be a basic flat armor plug in now?


Yeah I haven't got around to it, but yes, generally speaking.
1
[-]
pepsikola963 | January 22, 2012 2:25pm
Hey duff, when are you planning on changing your guides now that dodge is removed completely? And is it just going to be a basic flat armor plug in now?
1
[-]
Senac (3) | January 22, 2012 10:02am
Woot.. Thanks for giving me something to do while I eat my dinner.

I'll go try this offtanky thing right off. See you later!
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | January 19, 2012 11:26am
Yeah just grind it out, use strong builds, DON'T play ranked yet lol.
1
[-]
Mallahet | January 19, 2012 10:50am
Awesome, thanks for the feedback. Good to know I'm not actually completely missing something obvious, it's more a matter of grinding it out and doing my time until I have a better grasp of wtf is going on overall.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | January 19, 2012 8:55am
To be honest I didn't jungle until around 400-500 wins. If others wanted to do it, that was fine by me, and if not, I didn't care, LOL.

I eventually stopped playing 5v5, that's part of the reason, and switched over to 100% 3v3's all day every day.

My 3v3 elo was sick nasty, because I was paired with some of the top 3v3 players in the world on a very regular basis.

Then somewhere between 500-600 wins I went back to 5v5's and jungled exclusively for a solid month or two every game.

Now I'm back to top lane.

I almost wanna tell you just don't jungle at that Elo... xP
1
[-]
Mallahet | January 19, 2012 6:42am
+1 Love your guides, Duff. Read this a while back, strayed away because others promised OMG BIG #'s!11...and now I've seen the light once again!... or something.

Couple questions that maybe you've answered in the comments section. Apologies if that's the case. I'm a freshly minted 30 and can finally feel I am able to use your guides more. Although in my elo I'm still running into people who either won't jungle or don't understand who should go solo top..

Now that Evasion runes are gone, do you just recommend Armor seals on Irelia/Wukong? And Ninja Tabi on them as well, or is it a situational Merc/Tabi gametime decision? Love the new Irelia setup, btw. Evolved away from the tri-tank into a..Wit-War-Dred's..?

And for Lee Sin, any preferred jungle path? Any tips on maximizing your gold input from jungling? I seem to be starving myself, but I'm not that used to jungling and ganking. Probably just a matter of time.
1
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DuffTime (670) | January 18, 2012 3:49pm
Yeah man, the utility from many of the meat heads is really strong.
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JohnGD117 (1) | January 18, 2012 3:06pm
My friends and I kind of stumbled into this discovery ourselves. Low ELO and normals are full of glass cannon nukers (Shaco, LeBlanc, poorly built Pantheons). Running a variety of off-tanks with a strong AP mid wins games, even when one of our lanes feeds.

One thing you failed to mention (likely because it wasn't the point of this article) is the utility that many Off-tanks and tanky DPS's bring. Off the top of my head, Warwick's W, Jarvan's Banner, Nunu's blood boil and perma slow, Cho'Gath's obscene CC... All of these, especially when you have two or more on your team, can just steroid the **** out of your team fights.
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DuffTime (670) | January 17, 2012 9:21am
What about it? o_O
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Dirax04 | January 17, 2012 8:01am
what about trinity force?
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DuffTime (670) | January 14, 2012 12:46am
Cheers man! :P
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Delicious | January 13, 2012 8:44pm
Not enough can be said about these offtank builds!! They are so much fun and practical! I can't tell you how many times I've owned with that Irelia build! Thanks so much (: got my vote!
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DuffTime (670) | January 13, 2012 4:59pm
Cheers :P
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Yossarianct22 (2) | January 13, 2012 4:06pm
I read this guide one day and a few weeks later i see it being used well everywhere
Great guide
Quoted:
That blitz build is a 3v3 map build, where you do in fact take farm.

Not a SUPPORT build.

I'm not sure what you think you've come to accomplish. Your Blitz build is almost good, like I said before, if you forget the major obvious flaw of costing 15245 gold on a support, with ONE GP10 item, and NO other source of income. You don't have GP10 runes, you don't take GP10 runes, and if you don't take any CS from the carry like you claim, then you will NOT be effective.

and a victorious argument GG +1 to you sir
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TheWeekndOVOXO (33) | January 12, 2012 10:10pm
rawrcat wrote:

And here i find you with a blitzcrank build, total cost 16470. Where were you going to farm this? Mine is slightly under for 15245 but hmm... almost every stat is better in general except for the GA.

If mine is too expensive then what is this? i know you must be pretty popular around here and everyone seems to think youre the smart kid who knows everything but regarding your biased thoughts as the complete truth and not even listening to logic is honestly just stupid, especially on a theorycrafting site like this i really question why. Im always up for a game if you decide to get off that high horse and let yourself be convinced.

If not, then ill simply take it as either a negative attitude on your part, or fear of being wrong. Theres nothing useful to learn from a player who thinks they are good, they never get better.


You're so sour. Just because you couldn't win Duff's heart doesn't mean you can go around and bash his guide. Did he DV your guide? No. He just gave you his opinion and all OUR opinion on your guide. YOU ASKED FOR opinion. WE GAVE IT TO YOU. Either take it or leave it, but you got sensitive and got offended like a negative nancy. In fact I upvoted your guide and hope you make it to a better one in the future, but you're displaying super negativeness towards all of us.
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UltimateHavok (19) | January 12, 2012 7:35pm
^ The woman speaks truth.

Idk how you get that build with 0 cs? I didn't read the guide though I'm lazy
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DuffTime (670) | January 12, 2012 7:27pm
That blitz build is a 3v3 map build, where you do in fact take farm.

Not a SUPPORT build.

I'm not sure what you think you've come to accomplish. Your Blitz build is almost good, like I said before, if you forget the major obvious flaw of costing 15245 gold on a support, with ONE GP10 item, and NO other source of income. You don't have GP10 runes, you don't take GP10 runes, and if you don't take any CS from the carry like you claim, then you will NOT be effective.

I don't care if you played 20 games and won them using your support Blitz. The Elo system in this game tricks people into thinking they are better than they are.

People trust my opinions and statements because I have time and time again proven them to be true and play well on a consistent basis in the community, and welcome all comers who wish to test my statements against their opinions.

I approach the game with a scientific mindframe as well, simply documenting results instead of speaking strongly with opinions. When things don't work, I am not emotionally invested in them, I change my opinion to what does work quickly.

Your problem is you are emotionally invested in a sub-par build for an average support champion. Your build is legitimately inferior to a traditional support build in almost every imaginable avenue and I don't know what else to say to you.

You come to my guide with your own ignorance and negative attitude to try to make me look bad, well all I can say to that is that if anybody wants to see what this guy is all about, go check his SUPPORT Blitz guide out and have a good laugh.

It's an awful build for a support champion.

Go try to ruin someone else's reputation please, I didn't even downvote your sub par Blitz guide.
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rawrcat (6) | January 12, 2012 1:59am
And here i find you with a blitzcrank build, total cost 16470. Where were you going to farm this? Mine is slightly under for 15245 but hmm... almost every stat is better in general except for the GA.

If mine is too expensive then what is this? i know you must be pretty popular around here and everyone seems to think youre the smart kid who knows everything but regarding your biased thoughts as the complete truth and not even listening to logic is honestly just stupid, especially on a theorycrafting site like this i really question why. Im always up for a game if you decide to get off that high horse and let yourself be convinced.

If not, then ill simply take it as either a negative attitude on your part, or fear of being wrong. Theres nothing useful to learn from a player who thinks they are good, they never get better.
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DuffTime (670) | January 10, 2012 10:35am
Me too.

That's because full tank is for junglers, they have no choice but to build 100% defense. You have so much gold in a solo that you can diversify your build a bit.
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Nash19 | January 10, 2012 5:30am
Ok thx.

And yeah I find it really strong too, even though i havent given other mastery trees much of a shot.

I actually dislike the idea of playing full tank, while I love tanky dps/off tanks
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DuffTime (670) | January 10, 2012 12:46am
Yeah well check when the guide was released >:P

Offense tree is a bit OP tbh ;P
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Nash19 | January 9, 2012 7:52pm
Hey, I've read most of your guide and it is very interesting even if a few things looked outdated to me (ad carry mid etc, I think it was last year's metagame).

I have a question about off tanks, I've recently started playing some of them (Wukong, Lee Sin, Jarvan IV, Garen, Irelia...) and to be honest I've had much more success with basically AD carry masteries than tanky-dps masteries pmuch everyone recommends.

Am I doing something wrong ?

Thanks in Advance,

Nash


PS : I'm a young level 30 and LoL is my first RTS game, I leveled up to 14 only in Coop vs IA, but I don't think I'm worse than most players I meet/play with in normal games..

It is very rare that I actually lose my lane, I sometimes don't dominate it as much as I'd like, but I usually do well and practically never feed the enemy laner.
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DuffTime (670) | January 6, 2012 11:13am
Still working out Malphite...

He's not a simple case. :P

Thanks! :)
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Dr Kasper (2) | January 6, 2012 9:14am
Quick question? Would Malphite be better off being built with Ap and tank items? Say for example Rylai's AND Randuin's. Or should he just be built straight up tank...

Also, great explanation.
+1
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DuffTime (670) | January 5, 2012 8:13am
Yeah Irelia's pretty versatile and people get bored of the same old builds.

This build does work, I just decided to express a different build order.
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Pølsemanden (142) | January 4, 2012 6:26pm
A few comments on ur irelia build.. I was semi-pleased, it's the only guide on the site that offers the bulk needed to off-tank/be a proper tanky-dps.
I do not like however how that u're removing her ability to anti-carry by removing ad and phage from her kit. I know, your "e" offers a slow/stun, but after the slow is gone the enemy might just run away from u, we do not want that to happen with a Frozen mallet or Tri-force that is not going to happen.
The philosopher stone just slows down your midgame, and is not needed if u take mana reg in masteries. I feel dodge is overrated after new masteries. I disaggree a little with ur mastery choice, but what the hell.. I do not think that FoN is a good item on her, i see it is needed in this build due to that u don't have a phage proc i would recommend a Tri-force or a Frozen Mallet to replace it.

Edit: Boots +4 is an op start for irelia. And is in most situations superior to cloth armour. Armour quints? no?
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DuffTime (670) | January 4, 2012 2:28pm
Should be fixed :P
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TheEmerica | January 4, 2012 10:37am
I wanted to ask one thing about irelia masteries. How the heck did u manage to make that talent tree, u need atleast 12 points to proceed but yours have a little mistake.
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DuffTime (670) | January 4, 2012 9:57am
Glad to hear it Mr Jinx, and if you run into road blocks or have any questions down the road, feel free to ask :)
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Jinx the Zombie | January 4, 2012 12:45am
After trying out your jungle builds with Trundle a bit and experimenting with some of those, I find this...gem. I have no other way to describe it, really. You've managed to put, in a pretty tight nutshell considering the massive information you provided, an entire playstyle down in a relatively easy to understand guide, and one that supports some of my favorite champions of all time which just plain excites me. I'm going to toy around with this a bit the next time I play with my friends, see if I can learn to apply the strategies you touched on effectively.

I will definitely say this, too. I feel an idiot for not taking into consideration how effective items like Tri-force and Atmas really are in the end. I mean I've used them on a few characters from time to time, but you've really opened my eyes here and I'm looking forward to seeing what I can accomplish with some of these builds, after modifying them to fit proper situations of course. If they're anywhere close to being as fun as that Trundle build you put up then I'll be a very, very happy player :D
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DuffTime (670) | January 3, 2012 9:51am
CaptnRoss wrote:

This was just a nice read. Looking at many guides to increase me knowledge of tanking and off tanking, I'd say this one is up there. I tank and Off tank Dr. Mundo, and now im going to try and trinity tank him. Though with these new runes and marstries that are out i stick to Gold per second seals and quints along with gold utility marstries. this way even if i miss last hitting my gold total does not suffer.
Sweet guide bro, sweet guide.


Not sure if srs but cool! :P

Mundo is a beastly farmer so I almost feel like this is a 90% troll xP

However you wanna party rock though man :P

BaraDude wrote:

A question spacificly about Blitzcrank, why not build Manamune? Its just so perfect for his passive...
I am having trouble with it since it got nerfed, (passive has a 3 sec CD), but im still trying to decide if i completly cut it lose or not.
Obviously with Tri-Fource you will have damage, but manamune will take it 1 step furthur + give you another 700 mana (not counting on the full passive).

Im torn on this because of the fact that it takes so long to build it up, and in order to do that it needs to be bought early (Tear of Goddes), but buying it early leaves a serious dent in your Mid game abilities due to the fact that it only gives mana and mana regen, that and the fact that upgrading to manamune isnt worth it till after you get either frozen heart or banshies.
What do you think?


Early-mid game item that isn't strong until late game?

Nooo thanks!

Buy Sheen + Glacial shroud instead, wayyyy better.

Desolution wrote:

QED: Armor doesn't become less effective, although stacking it this high just means that a Last Whisper decimates you, so it's still best to build HP too.


Unfortunately, not the case.

I've been explained this a bazillion times, but it's not correct.

However, when the Armor pen passive of 10% and Last Whisper are considered, this all becomes fairly simple doesn't it? :P

Functional result is the same no matter what, build a mix of armor and HP.

liaker7 wrote:

--- Good Jobb My Friend ---


Thank you, my friend~

:D
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liaker7 | January 2, 2012 11:26am
I dont need 2 say anything, i can say anything that will make things better.

only one thing i can say:


--- Good Jobb My Friend ---
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Desolution | January 2, 2012 4:04am
+1

Although, just a small thing. Armor does give less % effect the more you collect, but doesn't become less effective. Here's a simple example for you:

You have 1000 hp, and 0 armor. It takes 1000 damage to kill you.
Now, you get 100 armor. You now have 50% reduction, so it takes 2000 damage to kill you. Each point of armor causes it to take 10 more damage to kill you.
You bulk up even more, reaching 500 armor. Now you have 85% damage reduction, causing it to take 5000 damage to kill you. Each point of armor causes it to take 10 more damage to kill you.

QED: Armor doesn't become less effective, although stacking it this high just means that a Last Whisper decimates you, so it's still best to build HP too.
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BaraDude | January 2, 2012 2:18am
A question spacificly about Blitzcrank, why not build Manamune? Its just so perfect for his passive...
I am having trouble with it since it got nerfed, (passive has a 3 sec CD), but im still trying to decide if i completly cut it lose or not.
Obviously with Tri-Fource you will have damage, but manamune will take it 1 step furthur + give you another 700 mana (not counting on the full passive).

Im torn on this because of the fact that it takes so long to build it up, and in order to do that it needs to be bought early (Tear of Goddes), but buying it early leaves a serious dent in your Mid game abilities due to the fact that it only gives mana and mana regen, that and the fact that upgrading to manamune isnt worth it till after you get either frozen heart or banshies.
What do you think?
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CaptnRoss (2) | January 2, 2012 1:59am
This was just a nice read. Looking at many guides to increase me knowledge of tanking and off tanking, I'd say this one is up there. I tank and Off tank Dr. Mundo, and now im going to try and trinity tank him. Though with these new runes and marstries that are out i stick to Gold per second seals and quints along with gold utility marstries. this way even if i miss last hitting my gold total does not suffer.
Sweet guide bro, sweet guide.
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DuffTime (670) | January 1, 2012 9:44pm
Renekton is a pretty bad champion mechanically is my opinion :P
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KrunchyKibbles | December 30, 2011 8:57pm
Hey, im sorry if you already got a million comments about this, but what about renekton? You didnt mention him and I think he's a really viable off tank. Thoughts?
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DuffTime (670) | December 30, 2011 5:10am

i'm trying to set up the masteries the way you have it here, but initiator and enlightenment both need 12 points in defense to be on, it's impossible to do the way you put it up... you might want to fix that ;)


Oh, for which build?
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DuffTime (670) | December 30, 2011 5:09am
Temzilla wrote:

He probably just doesn't understand why you would build Bloodrazor on someone like Trundle, but not on someone like Wukong or Jarvan.

I would only build Bloodrazor on a champion who builds Wit's End + Trinity, or someone who has some kind of damage steroid that they can abuse with attack speed. (Mundo comes to mind.)


Hmmm not sure. I'll wait for his response :P


This is an outstanding guide, great for new players, and advanced!



This is an outstanding guide i must say.


Not sure if same person 2x... Either way thanks guys! :)
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mistermarshmallow | December 30, 2011 4:40am
i'm trying to set up the masteries the way you have it here, but initiator and enlightenment both need 12 points in defense to be on, it's impossible to do the way you put it up... you might want to fix that ;)
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Loovemachine | December 29, 2011 12:56pm
This is an outstanding guide i must say. Jarvan is my main champ.And this really suited my play stiyle of him to. This I guess is only a preferace, but i like the Hpreg. quints for better early sustain in top. But othervise i follow your instruqtions quite cloesley to the lether :) thx for a great guide. +1 from me.
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Pluckin Penguin (117) | December 28, 2011 1:31pm
This is an outstanding guide, great for new players, and advanced!
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Temzilla (211) | December 27, 2011 3:15am
DuffTime wrote:

Uhm can you ask on a specific champion why I picked them up? :)


He probably just doesn't understand why you would build Bloodrazor on someone like Trundle, but not on someone like Wukong or Jarvan.

I would only build Bloodrazor on a champion who builds Wit's End + Trinity, or someone who has some kind of damage steroid that they can abuse with attack speed. (Mundo comes to mind.)
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DuffTime (670) | December 27, 2011 2:54am
Uhm can you ask on a specific champion why I picked them up? :)
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Ganseki | December 27, 2011 12:45am
Just wondering about the Blood Razors could you update about why on some characters and not on other I always thought if you had good attack speed you should get them but not on off tanks. I'm not making fun Im just wondering I have never seen it before. Yes im not high elo lol......
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DuffTime (670) | December 22, 2011 12:11pm
Thanks man, glad to hear it :))
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Pyjamas | December 22, 2011 8:51am
Duff, i love your guides. I use your olaf build all the time, its really sick, keep up the good work :D
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DuffTime (670) | December 20, 2011 3:54pm
Fixed mao mastery, ty
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DuffTime (670) | December 20, 2011 3:51pm

rethinking my question over i have deducted that i'm too new in ranked for this to be applicable because i'm in the top solo vs two champions, but if you have a solution for dealing with 2 top and still farming well i'd love to hear it!


Yeah, pick Cho, take the blue buff, steal it if you have to, and level your q and w to spam down the creep waves ^_^
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dumbfoundead (4) | December 19, 2011 11:47pm
in mao*
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dumbfoundead (4) | December 19, 2011 11:46pm
im not trying to be a **** im just trying to be helpful i wanted to try your masteries but you messed up a little you need 2 points in tough skin to get one in bladed armor
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SpaceSchuttle (2) | December 19, 2011 9:16pm
rethinking my question over i have deducted that i'm too new in ranked for this to be applicable because i'm in the top solo vs two champions, but if you have a solution for dealing with 2 top and still farming well i'd love to hear it!
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SpaceSchuttle (2) | December 19, 2011 9:10pm
I read all of this guide. It was so informative! I play a lot of off-tanks. .i just have one question. I find myself kited in the solo lane a lot and my jung;er is sometimes reluctant to help me with the agression. what to you reccomend as a remedy? also rep+ and +1
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DuffTime (670) | December 7, 2011 3:54pm
I don't know, I'm a big noob who never learned how.

Also I don't play casters. Ever.

And it's better on casters.
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Temzilla (211) | December 7, 2011 10:04am
iqhunter wrote:

With chogath u use smart cast?


I highly recommend this for Cho'Gath.

It works really well for everyone else too.
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iqhunter | December 7, 2011 9:28am
With chogath u use smart cast?
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DuffTime (670) | December 5, 2011 12:12pm
It scales almost linearly due to the nature of damage reduction and HP but it doesn't actually scale linearly in practice, over time you do start to get reduced returns on the investment and there does come a point when purchase of armor is less effective than purchase of HP.

Generally that point is between 180-250.

As an Offtank you can manage with about 180 ish, but I prefer a solid 200.

And as a main tank you'll want more towards 250.
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Bloodandtears (1) | December 4, 2011 9:54pm
Duff is right,stop arguing about it.The higher your armor is the lower dmg reduction you get when purchasing even more armor.150-170 is great even for main tank imo.Then you have to reach like 240 to have a +10% dmg reduction
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DuffTime (670) | December 4, 2011 1:09pm
Nooooooooooooo it does not scale lineralyyyy it drops off =_=

I understand what you're saying but it doesn't.

I could give you a massive graph of math displaying how it doesn't but I am lazy.

Instead I will use the example of the new armor pen mastery.

Lots of people will have it and you'll get 10% less on the already poorly scaling resistances.

Then they can still build Last Whisper.
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iqhunter | December 4, 2011 5:34am
Very good guide. love it ^^ +1
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theoreticalgamr | December 3, 2011 11:18am
Genuine curiosity here: why not?
In other words, are our models not isomorphic and does your's give better experimental predictions?
In lieu of that, does your math obey Occam's Razor?

For my part, I think our maths say the same thing in different terms (isomorphic). I also note that my math says when to stop building defence precisely and without manipulation, whereas your's seems to obfuscate this to the point of you needing to use your gut.

Your method beats mine in many scenarios, probably most of the common ones, but, as I said, Damage Reduction can be misleading, and being open minded about new math can double the strength of your builds (it did for me).
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DuffTime (670) | December 2, 2011 11:41pm
Cheers Generic Non Player Character.

Do you have any new quests for me?

I'm sick of grinding boars.
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GenericNPC | December 2, 2011 10:10pm
This was a very fun read. Every time I go into a random game and people spout the same cookie cutter strategy, be it SR or Dominion, I just sit here and think ... "Who the hell came up with this stuff? Why do what's expected of you?"

I'm still fairly new to the game, not even level 30 and don't have loads of tier 3 runes to play around with, so most of what I do is just wishful thinking, lol. Though lately I've been thinking about not worrying about buying any particular champ to focus on, but instead just buy a healthy stock of all different kinds of runes and just play whatever champs are free that week. That way I'm forced to experiment with different champions often. At least until I have all the runes I'd think I'd ever want.

I've read a few of your guides now and they've all really gotten me looking at champions a little differently. :]
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DuffTime (670) | December 2, 2011 9:26am
No that is NOT correct.

It does not scale linearly.
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theoreticalgamr | December 2, 2011 6:57am
It does occur that since Defence multiplies the effect of new HP there is a point at which HP Scales better; but this does not change the fact that Defence Scales Linearly... At which point our explanations have similar predictive power, though for slightly different reasons.
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DuffTime (670) | December 1, 2011 4:23pm
No that's actually not correct.

I've heard that explained to me a bazillion times and it's not correct, sorry :P
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theoreticalgamr | December 1, 2011 5:45am
A note on Math. MR & Armour do not have diminishing returns. Thinking in Damage Reduction is quite misleading.
Effective Health VS. Relevant Damage Type=((Relevant Resistance+100)/100)*HP
So, 100 Armour doubles Effective Health vs Physical Damage and 200 triples it.This is Linear Scaling and is better than HP's Scaling.
In other words, defence is even better than you thought.
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DuffTime (670) | November 30, 2011 5:06pm
Thanks, not sure what you're referring to ^_^
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ghost1313 (2) | November 30, 2011 1:18pm
Nice build although i max his 3rd first...But,i guess thats peronal taste...+1
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DuffTime (670) | November 26, 2011 4:20pm
Thanks guys ^_^

Glad you got something out of it :)
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Interwebz | November 25, 2011 10:04pm
Although this has gotten -a bit- outdated, I read this guide a couple months and decided to come back to it, because I wanted a refresher on the concepts after playing Irelia a little while ago. Irelia is a great Trinity Tank, and I love the detail put into this guide. I've learned quite a lot from this guide, me being a fairly low ELO player (~1300). This guide inspires me every time I read it, and I want you to know that you putting out this guide has done more for it's readers than you may think. Thank you so much for making this guide, you are a very, very generous person for giving your clear thoughts. opinions and observations on this lightly-touched topic. I love you, man. <3

Also, as a little sidenote, I really found the part about MIA's very, very true. My friend ALWAYS complains about "no mias" all the time, and also says that, as a player, I am obliged to call MIA's if an enemy in my lane leaves. I argued with him about it, but he acted very stubborn and refused to accept my points or ideas. I liked that part the most.

Quoted:
Dude, get over it.

Do you have eyes? Do you have a minimap?

Do you have 0 map awareness, perhaps?

It's YOUR job to watch the map and to know when players are coming or going.

MIA's are a luxury, when a player has time to call his mia's, consider it a gift.

But if you die to a gank, it's not the guy who didn't call MIA's fault, it's your fault.

That's my firm opinion on the matter. If I read one more Tribunal case where a guy is sobbing his eyes out because his team didn't call MIA and he's feeding for it, I'm gonna go postal and force feed some haters a big warm cup of "Man up."

You died, not the guy who was mid. That's not his fault.

This is entirely -more- important as the top solo lane. They -will- be coming to gank you, both jungler's and roaming champions, and you need to be prepared for that.

If you're the low quality of player who doesn't buy wards, and doesn't know when a champion is missing, you probably shouldn't be in the solo lane. You'll need to work on your skills and techniques, and try the bottom lane for a while until you're able to ward effectively and play safely.

(This is not to imply bot lane is a no-skill-zone, rather to imply that someone might save your baddie *** if you don't know what a ward is, huehuehue.)

I think one of the European players said it best... "When I base, if I have around 300 extra gold, I just spend it all on wards. I don't even think about it.

Yes, shocking right? He was their AP carry, by the way. Not their support.

Moral of the story, buy wards, and stop blaming your team for your own mistakes, you little baddie =D
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Magoya (2) | November 25, 2011 10:52am
There's soooo many ppl who needs to read this guide. I'm Stucked in Elo hell with ppl that don't even know what a ward is and they blame when they die because no one calls MIA's when they are killed by a jungler.....

+1
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DuffTime (670) | November 21, 2011 12:08pm
Yes ^_^

Make sure you get LOTS of creep kills!

If you can only get 100-200 CS in a game (Because you're not as good at last hitting) then you should swap FoN for Banshee's veil, and maybe even swap Atma's for Randuin's.

That build is designed for 300+ CS Sion, which is why the items are big and expensive, and there's not much HP at all :)
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loler123 (1) | November 21, 2011 12:03pm
well you said sion is the 2nd better for the trinity tank playstyle.
shall i then use this guide? http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/duffs-build-requests-109194
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DuffTime (670) | November 21, 2011 8:08am
Lol this advice is not good.

That's like my old build but a worse version :P

Phage and Trinity Force are strong, yes. You can choose to substitute certain items for it.
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Pølsemanden (142) | November 20, 2011 5:42pm
cloth/t1boots/regrowth ->Phil stone -> Phage -> HOG -> Wits -> Mercs -> Randuins -> FON -> Atmas -> Tri-force -> Sell wits for Madreds. Needs more milk? sell bots get warmogs.

This will make u pretty tanky, deal some VERY nice damage. I've been experimenting with FM instead of tri-force lately, but i just loove DAT ms and DAT sheen proc.

I have also tried letting go of her the legendary Randuins for warmogs but i prefer Randuins for the greater utility.
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Pølsemanden (142) | November 20, 2011 5:36pm
As a skilled irelia player i see a lot of points conflicting!

Irelia with a phage early game IS A BEAST! u can outzone everyone/thing and just chase them all over the place and kill them and stuffz...

The item is just 2 GUD to pass up. Where is your beloved item triforce(or frozen mallet if other team is bursty)? I use it and it has great potential combined with your ulty(and you know dis!) U get sooooo much bonus hp, yet u get no atmas impaler? i get atmas on her and i only get 3k health.

U have to think of the fact that her ulty and "w" sustain gives u on average 500'ish bonus health per fight. And if u do not deal some damage ur team is gonna dieeeee! And after your team dies u're gonna die as well... A big chump of meat is just as useless as a squishy ad troll build!

Tanking/oftanking is about BOTH surviving and dealing tons of damage(as freak would put it) remember you're approx 1/4th of your teams farm meaning u are approx 1/4 of your teams damage potential if u cut that in half, ur team is loosing out on damage and gonna die/loose the fight.
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DuffTime (670) | November 20, 2011 3:48pm
Uhm.

Sure.

Whatever that means.
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volglizolic (1) | November 20, 2011 1:14am
although in seems a good guide i think that some more damage is needed for all players
vote anyway
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DuffTime (670) | November 17, 2011 9:24am
I would just pick a different champ tbh lols.
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KikuChocobo | November 17, 2011 2:01am
True. In my experience, Jarvan is only good as a heavy HP tank rather than the way the guide suggested when he first came out. It does take him quite a bit of heavy gear to make him into a good character though.
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Nighthawk (677) | November 16, 2011 3:04pm
Well, when Malphite stacks IE's and get's + 40% on damage.... :P
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DuffTime (670) | November 16, 2011 1:14pm
ya 2gud when offtank stacks I.E.
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Nighthawk (677) | November 16, 2011 11:07am
Stack IE's.

10k damage per hit 2gud.
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DuffTime (670) | November 16, 2011 10:59am
Not really.

He's okay when built as a tanky AP + lich bane = Splashing lich bane procs.

Otherwise, meh :P

Dotter has some good Malphite builds.
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loler123 (1) | November 16, 2011 10:15am
Thanks for the fast answer. Is malphite a good candidate for such playstyle? i think he is but i need your opinionn.
Also if yes,which of the above guide fits more(not exactly) to him?
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DuffTime (670) | November 15, 2011 4:21pm
You can find them all over.

Some stream pages have different streams as well, I view on CLG's site and SoloMid's site as well.
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Nighthawk (677) | November 15, 2011 4:07pm
Sanguinuas wrote:

Does moba have these streams? And alright ill stay out till 500, still trying to improve myself anyway


Yes.

Under Livestreams and Video.
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Sanguinuas | November 15, 2011 4:04pm
Does moba have these streams? And alright ill stay out till 500, still trying to improve myself anyway
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DuffTime (670) | November 15, 2011 4:00pm
No it doesn't. I just normally advise people to get 500 normals before they do ranked. Makes life easier.

Watch a lot of high elo stream too. Improve yourself, forget about the noobs on your team.
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Sanguinuas | November 15, 2011 3:49pm
Just 328, please tell me that has nothing to do with ranked queues 0.o
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DuffTime (670) | November 15, 2011 3:45pm
Mmhmm. How many normals wins do you have?? :P
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Sanguinuas | November 15, 2011 3:32pm
I switch between him and skarner occasionally, I think hes more of a go in and grab the major threat tbh honest. Just hard to run Jarvan in ranked solo queue when everyone is blaming everyone else for their mistakes
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DuffTime (670) | November 15, 2011 2:48pm
Hahah well if you like Jarvan now you shoulda tried him back when I wrote the guide :P

Close to J4 not really but there's a lot of really good strong offtanks out there ^_^
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Sanguinuas | November 15, 2011 2:38pm
I'll admit when I first started this game and when Jarvan came out I was like, "please". Then I figured I wanted to main an offtank/trinity tank. So like every baddie I opened Moba and looked at the highest scored guide and chose it. Thankfully I chose right, after reading every single work here you wrote I thought to myself, "why not try Jarvan?". I did, and the prince stole my soul with your help Duff. I hope that you can share tips and advice on Jarvan that maybe I don't quit know yet. +1 Best build read for Trinity Tanking, hope more people can learn from it to get rid of the baddies in low ELO. ^^ Also, do you have any other champs to reccomend that play close to Jarvan?
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DuffTime (670) | November 15, 2011 12:29pm
I would recommend Olaf, Cho, and Sion.

They are kings in the solo lane. ^_^

They are also my mains :)

Just play nasty offtanks, they can often times carry a game even with bad mates ^_^
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ZOMGWTFPWNAGE (1) | November 15, 2011 12:17pm
Duff,

It took awhile, but I finally read your guide! Amazing I read every word even the **** I already knew.

I've got to say that Mundo build is looking very sexy atm. I've always enjoyed since release the "survive to kill" strategy. Mostly why I play tanks. I remember getting everyone hot and bothered with my roaming Alistar and totally wreaking havoc on the enemy Jungler.

To get to the point I know I have the playstyle you describe and mentality to grasp your concepts, but after not playing for a few months and getting back in it. I don't even have an ELO score anymore. Who could you recommend to me that I could climb the solo ranked queue with? I have over 400 games with Alistar, maybe 60+ with Mundo, Sion, and Cho each and only maybe 20+ with lee sin and Wukong. I've also messed with trundle.

I would label my playstyle as an "aggressive/loose" type. Meaning I don't mind dying if it's worth it. I also secretly have a passion for turret diving. Its just so much fun to kill people when they think they are safe.

Some champs that come to my mind are Olaf, Mundo, Alistar. If you see a trend thats because I hate CC so mundo with merc treads= goes where he pleases. Now olaf can clear cc with ulti!! Alistar has always been able to do that.

In the current metagame I find my self picking shen to solo top and do all that teleporting around, but I'm looking to get out of the current metagame. My metagame reality in my "elo" is;

Bottom- AD ranged carry with support
Mid- AP Caster
Top- Tank
Jungle- "Tanky DPS"

I see this about 90% of my games. No-one ever wants to jungle or tank also so I'm always torn between the 2 or doing both as shen/amumu. If I try to do anything different they q dodge >.<

Sorry for my wall of text but figure your deeper in this than me and could give me an excellent recommendation. Thank you for this wonderful guide.

-ZOMGWTFPWNAGE
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DuffTime (670) | November 15, 2011 11:37am
I would say;

Cho.

Olaf.

Sion.

Uhm... All for different reasons.


Cho #1 base damage and feast gives HP steroid = good synergy with Atmogg's + TF.

Olaf is just a beast who is great at killing squishies.

Sion wins almost all lanes with ease, farms up 300 CS and has like 3500 HP for free, gets SUPER tanky and could survive an atom bomb, and still does good damage.
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loler123 (1) | November 15, 2011 11:27am
(Long if you re bored skip to summary)
Hey, i read all the guide byt the i just read the first comment where you mentioned that after the nerf neither irelia nor jarvan are the best candidates for the offtank playstyle.
Well,i tried Irelia,it went well but not enough.I know you can think that it was my fault and that i couldn't take the best out of that guide but it was obviously that even if i could get the best out of it and at the same time opponents get the best out of the current meta game,i t would still not be enough
So (CONCLUSION - QUESTION) which is now,after all the nerfs, the ideal candidate to meet all the requirments for this playstyle?
Would really appreciate a clear/plain/explained answer.
Cheers.
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DuffTime (670) | November 14, 2011 9:46am
Yeah that'd make for a good amount of damage in his skills with a decent measure of tankiness.

Tanky DPS Jarv OP?

lawl. prbly not~
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Embracing (348) | November 14, 2011 12:11am
DuffTime wrote:

Thanks guys, cheers.

I will mention Kiku, that Jarvan has been nerfed hard since I wrote this guide and I do think there are superior alternatives now.


Hmm according to some other higher elo players, a Doran's stack + Brutalizer + Fratma's seems to be doing well.
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DuffTime (670) | November 14, 2011 12:07am
Thanks guys, cheers.

I will mention Kiku, that Jarvan has been nerfed hard since I wrote this guide and I do think there are superior alternatives now.
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KikuChocobo | November 13, 2011 11:46pm
Just wanted to say that ARP never takes anyone below 0 Armor value and that the extra damage that you do see pop up is from the Havoc Mastery taking effect.

All in all, I never tried Jarvan with a Trinity Force but even after the nerf, I'm kind of itching to try it now.
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lovinthecock (1) | November 13, 2011 10:19pm
I wish I were good enough to understand or implement a lot of these things at the level I would like to. I follow what you're saying generally, but that's only through careful reading because I just don't have the experience or outside information to pull in. I look forward to re-reading this on a weekly basis to see how my understanding changes as time goes on. Thanks for giving me a definite goal to work towards in getting better.
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The Ragnarok Rise | November 13, 2011 4:55pm
Very nice guide I used Alistar and I must say it went pretty good.
Thanks for your effort +1
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Frostyfern | November 13, 2011 12:13pm
Love ur mundo build. went 32/2/9 ty!
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DuffTime (670) | November 9, 2011 1:40pm
Yes sir, cheers :)

A 4k HP pool is comparable to 250 armor on 1k HP :P

HP is cheap too, Warmogg's is Godlike.
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Fluffyknowsyou (1) | November 9, 2011 10:47am
Thanks for this guide Duff, it really put things into perspective for me. My only counter to ashe thus far was to play a strong assassin. Now I know a better understanding of how to vulnerable ad champions can be and why building all armor/mr is just as bad.(Diminishing returns lol)
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DuffTime (670) | November 8, 2011 2:22pm
Masta, the reason people flipped to assassin teams and heavy damage is because that counters tanky DPS.

People THINK Tanky DPS and Offtanks are the same thing.

They are not.

To a real Offtank, I don't know what the counter is. Kill it's team? I dunno lol.
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sonbeem | November 8, 2011 2:12pm
I love it... and thanks for the MIA bit... glad someone agrees with me
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mastajdog (77) | November 8, 2011 2:03pm
duff, by this point in time, i think the current meta has shifted to this. so here's my question. is there a way to beat this (besides that MFing olaf of yours)? (because your olaf is pretty similar in concept, it just beats most of the current solo tops and is kinda dependent on the current meta)
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DuffTime (670) | November 8, 2011 8:00am
I don't play Dominion, lol.

I think it sucks zzzz sooo boring.

Uhmmm well you do have some options and Trinity Force is still decent so just work it and play with it. You'll find something that works for you and your style.

My thing right now is big big defense, and just enough offense.
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Yuri_ius | November 8, 2011 4:18am
I was also wandering about that topic, since I'm using Irelia as my main. Will have to test not buying tri-force. The greatest problem for me with it is the cost, since it slows down the build a lot, even with philo and HoG in inventory. Boots (Tabi or Mercs), FoN, Randuin's/Frozen Heart... Then, for damage, wit's end, youmuu's and blood razor.

Seems fine to you? Thanks, your guides are excellent.

Edit: Forgot Warmog's :P

BTW, what about Dominion Irelia? I have been doing tabis, tri-force, youmuu's, phantom dancer, wit's end and a defensive item
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DuffTime (670) | November 7, 2011 9:10pm
Trinity was better when he skills did more damage and it sorta synergized with that burst.

Now because that burst is toned down, Trinity is still good but I prefer to build more defense and lean on W for damage (W was never nerfed)

Works out nicely :)

Tankier build now.
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Navv | November 7, 2011 5:54pm
Hi there. This is the first time I am posting on Mobafire (in fact just to ask for some things).

I've read your guide thoroughly and I have to say I am impressed as it clarifies a lot of things. What bothers me is that Irelia has become my main champion and most of the guides here on Mobafire considering an off-tank aspect of playing her state that trinity force is her core item.

I've seen your comment that trinity-tank build is no longer viable on her due to changes done to Irelia. My question is: since when is it so and how the current build you've presented in this guide benefits her more?

Sorry if this is a trivial question - somehow I just find you know what you're talking about and I would be very happy if you could say a few words in this matter.
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DuffTime (670) | October 31, 2011 9:07am
xIchi wrote:

Well I hate this meta too. It's ****in annoying cus somehow it's the only aviable meta if the enemy team uses it, too.

Not like HoN where u can go tri bot or double mid or all mid push etc.
LoL is to stiff in that case, however exspecially the bot lane is annoying that carry + sup + cv ****.
everygame I see it, I just hating it more. Well cv is rlly usefull, have to admit that but still a normal double dmg bot lane can outlane such a sup+carry lane easily.

I mean other Metabotlanes have problems against cait+taric?
then just dont go as 2 super squishy carry+sup there and take sth that can just nuke cait away and ignore taric lol ._.


Hahah, not gonna lie this was funny to read.

It's not about having to use champions in a certain spot just because the meta game says so guys.

There are certain champions that do certain jobs better than others.

Sustainy-bruiser champions lane top better than the other ones. If you're gonna go top, you'll need a tool that is capable of doing the job the best, because other people are going to try to do their best as well~

Your team needs an AD carry for pushing towers down quickly and also for end game teamfights. Yet they are not strong in lane. (Some are good at harass but there's always something that can 1v1 an AD carry.) That is why the AD support meta rose up. It's the best way to ensure your AD carry gets farmed.

Yes~ There are other options, I think there are team comps that have yet to be discovered that will counter ranged AD/support bot lanes.

Don't know what they are yet though :3
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DuffTime (670) | October 31, 2011 9:00am

This is a magnificent guide. I tried something like this with Urgot out of curiosity and it worked beautifully! Thank you for the knowledge to make me a better player! +1


Yeah actually it works well on Urgot to build him Offtanky :)

What did you build on him, I wonder?
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DuffTime (670) | October 31, 2011 8:58am

Been visiting MobaFire since i started playing League of Legends.(Which is about 6 months or so) I have never created an account in all that time, but after reading your guide, with all its facts and such, i decided to create an account just to upvote this guide. Personally, there are way too many guides here that focuses on dps. (Tanks build as DPS in this game, WTF?) and not enough guides that focuses on tanking/off tanking.


Cheers mate :D
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theInfernalPath | October 31, 2011 6:47am
This is a magnificent guide. I tried something like this with Urgot out of curiosity and it worked beautifully! Thank you for the knowledge to make me a better player! +1
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xIchi (65) | October 30, 2011 5:09am
DemonDZ wrote:

Ok so, now we've been playing this metagame for months on end, and to be honest it's getting old ****ting on people with tanky lanewick or Jarvan, I'm getting tired of getting babysat as EZ or Caitlyn, and I don't feel like midding as orianna ever again. Do you think there is any way this meta can be countered? And if so would you share your insight?


Well I hate this meta too. It's ****in annoying cus somehow it's the only aviable meta if the enemy team uses it, too.

Not like HoN where u can go tri bot or double mid or all mid push etc.
LoL is to stiff in that case, however exspecially the bot lane is annoying that carry + sup + cv ****.
everygame I see it, I just hating it more. Well cv is rlly usefull, have to admit that but still a normal double dmg bot lane can outlane such a sup+carry lane easily.

I mean other Metabotlanes have problems against cait+taric?
then just dont go as 2 super squishy carry+sup there and take sth that can just nuke cait away and ignore taric lol ._.
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GothicLolita | October 30, 2011 12:49am
Been visiting MobaFire since i started playing League of Legends.(Which is about 6 months or so) I have never created an account in all that time, but after reading your guide, with all its facts and such, i decided to create an account just to upvote this guide. Personally, there are way too many guides here that focuses on dps. (Tanks build as DPS in this game, WTF?) and not enough guides that focuses on tanking/off tanking.
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DuffTime (670) | October 28, 2011 10:15am
Yeah it was recently countered by a rise in amazing sustained DPS champions.

Akali, Ryze, Vayne, Kogmaw, Jax, etc.

When you pair these types of champions with something that breaks the fights up- Amumu or Sona, Trundle, etc, you have a very strong comp. Several good DPEer's, remove the damage from the Tanky DPSers on the other team, and simply KILL whatever is closest. Those kinds of DPSers can even kill a tank.

So that was the most recent counter, however I PERSONALLY feel it is because people are not building REAL tanks anymore. So we'll see.
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DemonDZ | October 27, 2011 9:48pm
Ok so, now we've been playing this metagame for months on end, and to be honest it's getting old ****ting on people with tanky lanewick or Jarvan, I'm getting tired of getting babysat as EZ or Caitlyn, and I don't feel like midding as orianna ever again. Do you think there is any way this meta can be countered? And if so would you share your insight?
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DuffTime (670) | October 27, 2011 10:37am
Well Atmogg's is a bazillion times better than Tiamat and Frozen mallet. It's better survivability, it's comparable damage, (It's no slow)

I get my slowing proc on Trinity Force. So that's not an issue.

The way I cover up the early damage loss is with Wriggles and Brutalizer. I'll be plenty strong while farming up my Warmogg's in this way, and my end game will be far superior.
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Indifference (3) | October 26, 2011 12:00pm
Heya Duff.

Recently I've been trying an alternative build for offtanks, and I got one up for myself.
If you like check my Wukong guide and tell me what you think of it overall.

Basically, it's a combination between Tiamat (an highly underrated item) and Frozen Mallet.

My explanation why this works well: Tiamat is a great item to farm minions and gives a lot of damage, while replacing the Philosopher's Stone mana and life regen. You even won't need the gold passive from PhS since you can farm better.

Then, Frozen Mallet is great CC and gives a fair amount of HP. By building these two, you get more damage early on then you would when building Warmog's. Even for jungler's, Tiamat makes the jungle faster, because of it's AoE effect and damage.

Also, the price of both Atmog's and Tiamat + Frozen Mallet is about the same (5355 g, 5320 g, respectively).

Tell me what you think. :)
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DuffTime (670) | October 26, 2011 9:33am

the sappling toss is one of the best attacks in the hole game!!!
Its the first one it upgrade


It's not bad to level it first if you know how to use it. *Shrug.

Up to you. I just use this method because the damage is guaranteed and because the mana cost doesn't go up as fast.

You can do it either way, they both has +'s and -'s.
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DuffTime (670) | October 26, 2011 9:31am
Reiki wrote:

This is the guide I was looking for. I knew about this kind of metagame, but didn't knwo how to get the most of it. Tried it out and got some nice results.

Thank you for this guide Duff


Cheers :)
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DuffTime (670) | October 26, 2011 9:31am
Hi tangerine, I never wrote that I was confused. I think your quote was messed up :P

Just follow the builds provided. They are somewhat recently updated and they will all work.

I prefer the tanky/on hit build for Irelia now, Trinity is still pretty decent for Jarvan.

There's a lot of reasons to build a Trinity. You might want it for the proc damage (Nasus, Blitz, Trundle, Cho)

You might want it for the move speed (Any champion)

You might want it for the AS (Any champion that auto attacks)

You might want it for the AD (Again, for AA champs)

Slowing procs are amazing... There's lots of reasons.

But for good results, just use the listed builds if you feel unsure.
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volglizolic (1) | October 26, 2011 9:30am
the sappling toss is one of the best attacks in the hole game!!!
Its the first one it upgrade
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Reiki | October 26, 2011 8:24am
This is the guide I was looking for. I knew about this kind of metagame, but didn't knwo how to get the most of it. Tried it out and got some nice results.

Thank you for this guide Duff
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tangerinedreamer | October 25, 2011 7:23pm
DuffTime wrote:
So when do you build a trinity force im confused?
EDIT;

Jarvan and Irelia are NO LONGER the optimal candidates for Trinity Tank builds since their nerfs.

Builds have been updated accordingly.

By the way feel free to ask questions ladies and gents. I will do my best to explain my answers clearly.
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DuffTime (670) | October 24, 2011 9:15am
Cheers guys :P

The written guide's a bit old, but the builds are newer; glad you liked it! :)
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hugachicken | October 22, 2011 10:39pm
I honestly never thought of this...I play cho and I see guides on here that give tank or AP, or maybe even mix of the two, but this is great. I thought I was missing something in my games, even when we won with 20 more kills than the other team, cause it felt like they were still being more strategic and it pissed me off. Glad you took the time to do this man, helped alot and look forward to more.
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NinjaShank56 | October 22, 2011 9:52pm
This guide is very informational, and I really enjoyed the personal "flare" you added to it. I'm definitely one of those lower elo players you talked about, getting better but slowly (mostly thanks to some really high skill/level play l friends that are patient with me). I usually play an off-tank version of Wukong (to various degrees of success), which is why I actually checked out this guide. I think I will try this type of play out with him and maybe try a few other champs like this. Thanks for the ideas!
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DuffTime (670) | October 21, 2011 11:15am
Nighthawk wrote:

LIES

oh anyways what would be the best build for Kayle be...?

She seems so **** as a ranged carry. Like, horribad. Need range buff plox.


Uhmmm.

I really don't know. Lol. Don't play Kayle.

I think Malady is decent on her.
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DuffTime (670) | October 21, 2011 11:14am
Coopstain wrote:

Dufftime, great guide man. Found it really informing. Got a question: how would you classify a character like Wukong? would you say such a character is a viable offtank or simply should be played tanky dps? I wouldnt be talking in terms of high ELO or professional play, i would just hear your opinion on the viability of offtank build on this character.

Thanks. Coopstain


Hi Coop :P

Well Wukong's pretty solid when played that way.

Wriggle's Brutalizer Warmogg's Atma's FoN finish Youmuu's sell wriggles build either TriF, GA, I.E, BT, TBC, LW, etc.
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Nighthawk (677) | October 21, 2011 6:34am
DuffTime wrote:

Cheers! I'm a noob too, I'm just less of a noob than you, so hopefully from one noob to the next noob the guide subtracted some noob from the noob equation :D


LIES

oh anyways what would be the best build for Kayle be...?

She seems so **** as a ranged carry. Like, horribad. Need range buff plox.
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Coopstain | October 21, 2011 6:13am
Dufftime, great guide man. Found it really informing. Got a question: how would you classify a character like Wukong? would you say such a character is a viable offtank or simply should be played tanky dps? I wouldnt be talking in terms of high ELO or professional play, i would just hear your opinion on the viability of offtank build on this character.

Thanks. Coopstain
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DuffTime (670) | October 19, 2011 11:57pm
Cheers! I'm a noob too, I'm just less of a noob than you, so hopefully from one noob to the next noob the guide subtracted some noob from the noob equation :D
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dokholiday | October 19, 2011 9:47pm
I'm a noob. Really, I can admit it. This game is just too much fun. But I can appreciate great things. Read through this whole guide and even though I got lost in some of the math, seriously added a lot of new knowledge and reinforced some of the things I was starting to learn. And entertaining writing style to boot!

In short (I think I past that point by now): sick job.
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DuffTime (670) | October 19, 2011 9:08am
<3 guiz.
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Arocities (3) | October 18, 2011 5:59pm
Love this guide. I have sworn by its principles since the day I read it. My Jarvan is significantly better now because of it. Thanks Duff.
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Stormbringer | October 18, 2011 3:55pm
I agree 100% that an offtank is absolutely necessary. One tank and 4 squishies will not be able to get the job done. It is just too easy to ignore the full tank that dishes out no damage and slaughter the helpless carries as the rammus on their team watches. But if you have a Jarvan offtanking he will be out there taking hits as well dealing damage you just can not ignore, thus allowing the two carries to rip them apart and the support to keep everyone alive. I read a guide once that stated "It's better to do less damage than no damage." In LoL that couldn't be more true. It's super cute that the Ashe does 350 damage per attack with a 55% chance of critting but it doesn't do her a lot of good when she spends half of the game looking through a gray screen. Very well written guide I love the idea of it.
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DuffTime (670) | October 18, 2011 3:01pm
Cheers mate.
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nartac2 (1) | October 18, 2011 1:52pm
Great guide! This is very similar to the Irelia I currently play. Many people take me for granted because I tend to be a bit squishy at first (specially when I am done and push to far) but come mid/ late game, you begin to own. I have survived full team battles in the enemies base when they kill the rest of my team and I have 3-4 left to finish off thanks to INSANE health regen + lifesteal + stun.

Using the mindset of this guide, I will have 3 kills going into mid game, and have the most kills/ assists of the match at the end. Trinity really is awesome once you get it, the biggest thing is to assess the champion you are playing when deciding which order in which to build Trinity. I go: Mallet, Sword, then skip to Trinity. (normally how it works out)

Great guide!
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DuffTime (670) | October 14, 2011 2:02pm
LOL!
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StrikeMist | October 14, 2011 12:49pm
TOO GUD!
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DuffTime (670) | October 14, 2011 11:22am
Yeapp :)

I think this is the best way to build her now ^^
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BornWild | October 13, 2011 3:45pm
the true damage that W gives in early game is godlike.. + if i build straight to defense items one thing covers the other... xD i just love it
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DuffTime (670) | October 13, 2011 10:00am
Very nice! :) I wanna see all of Europe, very cool :)

Yeah, people don't always seem to realize they're dying with this build... But they are! xD

And you're super tanky :)
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BornWild | October 13, 2011 12:20am
HaHaHaHa... true... Lisbon its really pretty... and to punch cristiano ronaldo in the face u have to go to spain xd cuz hes playing there xD


oh just 1 thing : 1st match i played with ur irelia build and tryed to follow ur advices e ended up getting a tripple kill in mid game, and leading my team to victory :'D 16/6/13
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DuffTime (670) | October 12, 2011 12:07pm
I would like to visit Portugal.

I would want to see the capital and also punch Cristiano Ronaldo in the face :)
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BornWild | October 12, 2011 12:14am
ahahahah nice xD
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DuffTime (670) | October 11, 2011 5:18pm
Ah thanks!

Muito bem! Obrigado! >:P
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BornWild | October 11, 2011 4:01pm
wow.. i have to admit. i created a acc just to post this...

hum.. im not even lvl 30 yet... just lvled to 29 and i have to say i just loved what u just wrote... i've already sent all my friends that play LoL so that they could read this... really good job... ive learned alot reading this, and i used to play irelia has a DPS... i just simply bought damage items with some hp....

i still have a loooong way to go but ur guides help ALOT ty sir..


if i have any spelling mistakes, im sorry.... talking from Portugal here (europe, country next to spain)
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DuffTime (670) | October 10, 2011 1:36pm
>:P

I would, but I actually think Yorick should be a support... x_x
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Khornes Avatar | October 9, 2011 7:01pm
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....make a meta tank Yorick Guide =)
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DuffTime (670) | October 9, 2011 3:02am
Cheers mate :)
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NinjaBetty | October 8, 2011 3:06pm
i actualy found this guid while looking at some general game guides and chose to read it because off-tanks is what i like playng, and im so glad i found it =D

i think you do a great job explaining your strategi, and when i read i get the feeling that you realy know what you talk about. i also get the fealing that i want to improve on my game and my way of playing an off-tank.

this is defently a +1 from me, and i hope alot will read and learn just a little bit from this ;)
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DuffTime (670) | October 6, 2011 10:14am
I auto attack a lot with my Cho.

I build him as an Offtank auto attacker.

He makes good use of Atma's with his Ult stacks, and yeah, when combo'd with Trinity and Warmogg's, you're getting a lot of damage, and good defense.
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The_Darkness (8) | October 5, 2011 7:41pm
Don't know if this was posted, but i just want to ask why cho would need atma's impaler *_*

So what is trying to be accomplished here is that he autoattacks in teamfights, and herp-a derp-a? and nom nom nom to win? Is it to let it proc with his ult passive?
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DuffTime (670) | October 5, 2011 11:52am
He is. He's a good candidate for it as well, but there's no difference in build from my jungle guide.

The only thing I'd do different is full armor pen reds instead of having some AS reds.
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yellow_granilla (5) | October 5, 2011 11:13am
Seems to me that Gangplank is now a pretty popular solo top offtank. Maybe you should throw it a build for him ;)

I dunno if this was mentioned before, too many comments TL;DR
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DuffTime (670) | October 4, 2011 10:43am
That's currently accepted to be the best starting item for Lee Sin. You can esily kill the double golems, get level 2 for free, and go bot for a lvl 2 gank while your opponents are still lvl 1. :)
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Embracing (348) | October 4, 2011 3:41am
Hey Duff, I just noticed. Why does your Lee sin jungle guide start with a doran's blade?
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DuffTime (670) | October 3, 2011 2:52pm
What you really upvoted was the guide I wrote >:P But thank you.

Kayle is a severely underestimated solo top =_=

Irelia is currently over rated. When I wrote this guide she was broken as **** but now she seems very average.
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The1nfection | October 3, 2011 2:25pm
I LOVE YOU! you are doing the exact thing i do, and its amazing!



BTW i have outlaned an irelia soloing top as nasus, and outlaned a nasus as kayle (he had less than 100 bonus damage by the end of the 45 minute game). I completly agree that an offtank soloing top is best, but also insist that it CAN be changed, based on who you are laning against.


UPVOTED YOU!!!!
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DuffTime (670) | October 3, 2011 9:50am
Yeah well look when the guide was published. :P I was rather far ahead of the game, I might mention. I think I'm partly responsible for the upsurge of Trinity Force, seeing as I've got a million views on this guide alone, and the dat in which the guide was published. (Before Dreamhack)

:P

But thanks.

Also it's really not flawed, I've been told the same thing you've just told me about resistances a hundred times. That's fine in theory but it doesn't play out in practice.

Also, resistance cutting items even further break that strand of logic.
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OldTigger (3) | October 3, 2011 9:08am
Add a reference to the atmog+trinity meta game please, also your Armor and MR equation is flawed, but the LoL wiki has a better equation than I would provide. +1 otherwise, everyone is doing this now btw :)
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DuffTime (670) | October 2, 2011 2:06am
It's easy to understand why you feel that way with your ordering of skills. He's in reality a very capable solo top.

I use my skills in lane since I'm 1v1. Otherwise you can take MR per lvl blues or whatever.

I usually need the catalyst for lane, and at that point it is better to just get the quick BV. Which makes me realize my build is out of order even for how I originally planned it. o_O Some of it was dated as well and I will reorganize.

Also I feel a GA or an I.E is probably a superior pick to the Atma's.
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Urscythe (3) | October 2, 2011 1:36am
DuffTime wrote:
No. I almost always start with Power fist. I also solo top lane where it's predominantly melee bruiser types... I need the philo stone for lane sustain in a 1v1, but in reality it's a good pick for more gold income as well. Sometimes I rush the catalyst instead, it all depends.

Everything you said I should buy is in the build bro... Are you high? Lol. I have-

Merc, Trinity, FoN, Frozen Heart, AND ATMA'S. Like legitimately, are you trolling the **** out of me right now? :P

I don't play support blitz, but I agree, if I did I would buy philo / hog / Aegis / Catalyst.


Yeah, and the order is screwy. BV is strictly fluff and isn't necessary in most games as long as you have Tenacity. Negatron alone will usually be plenty. You want Glacial Shroud/FH immediately after Trinity Force for the CDR - you want to be CDR capped as Blitz without having to use blue. Atma's isn't really required, but it can be nice since it provides a nice mix of stats. BV is preferable to FoN due to the HP/MP, but you shouldn't get both... once you hit about 50%+ MR, just add more HP (which synergizes with Atma's, too.) Most games will end before you break 10,000 gold, though, so it's really just a "what if" scenario. For cheap MR/spell defense, though, not much beats QSS, more than 50 MR for less than 1500 gold, and you also get a Cleanse with it.

Runes are also weird, come to think of it. You don't need mana regen unless you're wasting spells for some reason. The extra armor and MR from runes really helps. Armor pen quints are fine, but you could also use scaling CDR to CDR cap more quickly with fewer items (especially if you go 9 Offensive instead of 9 Defensive.)

Why are you sending Blitz solo top? He sucks there. I mean, he can do it, just like he can jungle... but you've got a lot of better options for it. He's best doing duo bot and ****ting on the enemy duo.
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DuffTime (670) | October 1, 2011 5:43pm
Thatgei wrote:

As a convert, I have to say that there is no, and should be no, one way to build a champ. You should always adapt the situation. Had I not seen this guide, I wouldn't have known what was best for that situation. +1


Glad to see you got out of it exactly what I was trying to give!

Cheers and may you find more success in the future as well.
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DuffTime (670) | October 1, 2011 5:31pm
Urscythe wrote:

Your Blitz build needs help.

If you're building him as a bruiser, you don't need Philosopher's Stone at all, because you'll be taking some CS, and you'll probably spend most of the mid-game roaming around and ganking people. Rush Sheen, buy boots 1, make Zeal, complete Trinity Force, finish your boots, get Frozen Heart, and go from there - Atma's is a viable choice, FoN if you need MR (it's better than BV due to the movement speed), Guardian Angel for trololol.

If you're building him as a sort of disruption-based half-tank, you probably wanna omit Sheen entirely and go for an early Phage. Get your lvl 2 boots and Aegis of the Legion after your Phage, and then finish Frozen Mallet. Probably wanna get Atma's to take advantage of all that HP, and then eventually sell Aegis and use it to buy Guardian Angel instead. Buy a Negatron if you need MR, turn it into FoN later if needed.

In both cases, Mercs will nearly always be your go-to boots. You need the Tenacity and the MR is lovely.

Your skill order is also screwy. You always start with Rocket Grab. It makes you more threatening than Power Fist does and allows for first blood, especially combined with Flash. It also makes it very easy to steal the enemy jungle's blue (hook them and have your jungler smite it.)

Rocket Grab, Power Fist, Power Fist, Overdrive, Power Fist, Static Field. Then max Power Fist, followed by Overdrive, and take points in Static Field when available. Save Rocket Grab for last.

At least you didn't recommend Manamune or Archangel's Staff :)


No. I almost always start with Power fist. I also solo top lane where it's predominantly melee bruiser types... I need the philo stone for lane sustain in a 1v1, but in reality it's a good pick for more gold income as well. Sometimes I rush the catalyst instead, it all depends.

Everything you said I should buy is in the build bro... Are you high? Lol. I have-

Merc, Trinity, FoN, Frozen Heart, AND ATMA'S. Like legitimately, are you trolling the **** out of me right now? :P

I don't play support blitz, but I agree, if I did I would buy philo / hog / Aegis / Catalyst.
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Thatgei (4) | October 1, 2011 11:06am
I have to say, as Irelia was the first champ I fell in love with, this build sucks! Zerker Grieves, Malady, Hextech Revolver, Phage, Rageblade, Gunblade, Frozen Mallet, and then a devensive item, or a Lich Bane. SCREW IT, GET THAT FRICKIN' LICH BANE.

Fast forward a month or two. I'm playing a game as Irelia going top with a buddy as Sona. I'm getting greedy and dying, their Kog'Mow is destroying our Heimier in mid. "You know what, I'm going off-tank." Sona and I successfully shred their Teemo and Taric at top, having fed them 3 kills, and kill a tower. I then head mid to knock that Kog off his podium, though dying in the process. One Merc, TF, Randuins, Shurylia's, Warmogs, and Atmas later, I'm able to run through a team fight, kill that damn Teemo, take out their Taric, and still have enough health to make them cry moar. At some point, I went 1v1 with their Kog, killed him, and /l as he tried to explode on me. At that Health, it was just a dent.

Final score? 23/10/13

As a convert, I have to say that there is no, and should be no, one way to build a champ. You should always adapt the situation. Had I not seen this guide, I wouldn't have known what was best for that situation. +1
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Urscythe (3) | September 30, 2011 10:40pm
Your Blitz build needs help.

If you're building him as a bruiser, you don't need Philosopher's Stone at all, because you'll be taking some CS, and you'll probably spend most of the mid-game roaming around and ganking people. Rush Sheen, buy boots 1, make Zeal, complete Trinity Force, finish your boots, get Frozen Heart, and go from there - Atma's is a viable choice, FoN if you need MR (it's better than BV due to the movement speed), Guardian Angel for trololol.

If you're building him as a sort of disruption-based half-tank, you probably wanna omit Sheen entirely and go for an early Phage. Get your lvl 2 boots and Aegis of the Legion after your Phage, and then finish Frozen Mallet. Probably wanna get Atma's to take advantage of all that HP, and then eventually sell Aegis and use it to buy Guardian Angel instead. Buy a Negatron if you need MR, turn it into FoN later if needed.

In both cases, Mercs will nearly always be your go-to boots. You need the Tenacity and the MR is lovely.

Your skill order is also screwy. You always start with Rocket Grab. It makes you more threatening than Power Fist does and allows for first blood, especially combined with Flash. It also makes it very easy to steal the enemy jungle's blue (hook them and have your jungler smite it.)

Rocket Grab, Power Fist, Power Fist, Overdrive, Power Fist, Static Field. Then max Power Fist, followed by Overdrive, and take points in Static Field when available. Save Rocket Grab for last.

At least you didn't recommend Manamune or Archangel's Staff :)
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DuffTime (670) | September 30, 2011 5:39pm
Rofl^
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DuffTime (670) | September 30, 2011 5:39pm
Rofl^
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wRAthoFVuLK (535) | September 30, 2011 5:27pm
ah **** it.
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DuffTime (670) | September 30, 2011 8:33am
Welcome, and enjoy :)
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r420 | September 30, 2011 6:48am
had some troubles playing wukong readed your article and followed the tips
its going pretty fine now ty
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DuffTime (670) | September 29, 2011 11:04am
Lol, that's what my guide used to be silly >:P Unless you're trying to be ironic >:P

I was the original Randy's BV Trinity Irelia.

But in the current meta I feel this is a better option.

I don't want to gimp my damage, I want to evaluate the whole package and think about what I need to have verse what's really not necessary.
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Nighthawk (677) | September 29, 2011 10:56am
Wait so you WANT to gimp your damage from Irelia? :c

I are confused.

Also, have you thought of grabbing Triforce instead of Warmogs and BV instead of FoN?
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DuffTime (670) | September 28, 2011 1:18pm
>:P

Thanks, but actually try the build! It's super strong >:P
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peteretepa | September 28, 2011 12:46pm
RRRAAAAGGGGEEE
lolz iliked it better before the update. NO TRIFORCE IRELIA WTF?!?!?!?!?
great tho, i just dont like the builds i love the acual improtant part :D
+1 from me
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DuffTime (670) | September 28, 2011 8:11am
Lol! Cheers Yori >:P

Yeah people are sleepin on the I.E. Lee Sin still. His passive turns you into a ****ing berserker with the Atma's and I.E. crits.

As your last item you can also get Last Whisper, if your opponents are a bit smarter than your last >:D
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DuffTime (670) | September 28, 2011 8:08am
Night, Jarvan can't beat a good Renekton or a good Cho Gath. There's no way, trust me when I say this. Nasus, maybe, but his life steal would make him difficult to deal with.

And if those champions simply run teleport... *Shrug.* There's not much that Jarvan can do to get them out of lane before they get armor and all his damage goes to ****.

For Olaf, I've always done R - Q - E - W as priority. It works well for him, the range would be nice in lane.

For Irelia, that's the whole point of the new build dude :P You build resistances and still do damage. Between Warden's, Wit's End, and Merc tread's, you're really tanky, and your damage will be rather substantial with the AS runes and Wit's end while W is active ^^
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Yorishimo (1) | September 28, 2011 3:43am
excellent guide, duff knows his stuff;P
just tried the Lee Sin build and went 23/3/9; enemy team was a bit noobish though;P
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Nighthawk (677) | September 27, 2011 5:27pm
hmmm, wouldn't getting Wardens severely gimp your damage though and just let WW tank you and your other allies/push towers all day long? Warden's is a great item though, i'll admit it.

Although Olaf's Axe damage is great, E is true and still pretty good damage, which is just 2gud against most top laners. Only reason I would level Q > E is for the AoE and if they are already squishy/aren't countering me. Aka, against Akali say.

Also, Jarvan is just so gud against other top laners...so gud. Cho, Ren, Nasus, dey all fall to his damage and tankiness :D
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DuffTime (670) | September 27, 2011 3:47pm
*Shrug.

On Olaf I always level'd axe first E next and I would still do that I think. I'd have to probably evaluate it on the lane I was in. I don't have much experience laning Olaf, but now that you mention it, it's an interesting prospect. I'll have to give it a whirl.

Warden's mail does counter WW, even if all you do is spam Q and build Glacial/SV. I've done this before, and have friends who use WW in this way (I use WW with those items and posted a Moba build a while back with those items a while back as well, and I know how it works.)

It has to do with slowing auto attacks and the 20 HPp5. The armor is just secondary effect that does reduce his AA damage.

Jarvan does beat Irelia until you get warden's mail, then he immediately cannot fight you :P
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Nighthawk (677) | September 27, 2011 3:16pm
I don't think a Warden's Mail shuts down WW at all. I mean yes he won't regen as much from his AA's, but it's not those that make him scary in lane, it's his Q. Irelia can't burst him down cause of counter building, while WW can just spam Q all day long and tank everyone. Glacial Shroud + SV is such a good core on him it should be criminal.

I think Jarvan's strong cause he has such awesome damage, tons of cc, and a shield. If you ran some mana regen runes on him, I think not only would he be their for keeps, but he could also do just tons of damage.

I know Olaf is completely physical, and thus easily countered, but now that E is 0 mana, he can just spam it all day long, and no amount of counter building is going to stop that. Plus early his harass with axe is pretty good I think.
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DuffTime (670) | September 27, 2011 9:01am
Cheers mate :)
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Jack Jolted | September 27, 2011 8:55am
I'm diggin this guide. I'm glad someone else uses Alistair solo top, I thought I was crazy and maybe lucky. Seriously though you're preaching to the choir with Mobafire focusing only on straight damage, it's repetitive and ineffective. Sustain seems to be the name of the game where I'm playing.

Giving this +1
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DuffTime (670) | September 27, 2011 8:19am
Don't think I agree that WW is quite that strong in a solo. I think Irelia can beat WW for sure, Warden's mail is good against WW, and them Merc Tread's and Wit's end would be the final touches. I think she can do it for sure with that gear.

Also Jarvan's not suuuper strong anymore, he's just decent imo.

Olaf as a top laner is decent, he does have some limited sustain and if you build Wriggle's he's there for keeps. I'm not convinced he'd beat Irelia though, I think she could do it with counter building.
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Nighthawk (677) | September 27, 2011 8:01am
Hmm. Honestly, I still think WW will beat her in lane. tbh Olaf would definitely beat her in lane (especially with jungle ganks) but a super agressive Irelia @ lvl 1 -3 would beat him in lane during that time. Once he levels up E though, he'll dominate her. Once he gets a HoG (probably doesn't need philo stone) + boots he'll start dominating, and once he get's SV that Irelia won't be doing any damage to him at all with some mr/mr per level blues.

I Lanewick would beat her in lane hard if he took arpen runes since if she builds mr he can't harass as well, but in a straight up 1 v 1 would win, if she builds armor first (aka not wit's end) then he just harasses her with Q all day long.

I definitely do think This Irelia would do better against Cho then most other Irelia's. Agree with you when you say Cho counters almost all top laners.

Stuff above pretty much goes for almost all of the top laners in the game.

Olaf beats a lot of top laners except Jarvan, maybe Garen, Sion (especially AP Sion) and WW.

WW beats everyone. I can't think of someone who beats a smart, good WW. Atm strongest top laner in the game I think. Probably Garen or Cho is the closest to a counter.

Cho is the same as WW. He's super super strong atm. I think WW and maybe Jarvan are the two would work best though.

Mundo...i'm not sure how Mundo would do. He's fallen out of favor with that low as **** hp, but max cleaver first, hp/5 quints, full 0/21/9, and armor marks, mr glyphs and either armor or hp/hp per 5/per level seals with a doran's shield or regrowth pendant start would be pretty sustainable. I think he could dominate a lane pretty easily after a couple of levels though. Spam Cleavers all day c:

Jarvan is the other super strong solo I forgot to mention, his burst is crazy and he has nice sustainability, only thing is that I think I saw somewhere that he had mana problems, I think some mregen runes would fix that though...

Thoughts?
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DuffTime (670) | September 26, 2011 9:44pm
I think that If you use these masteries and max W and get these items a lot of AS on hit champs like WW won't beat her >:P

Olaf would probably do well, but he's really squishy and nobody lanes him.

Cho Gath beats pretty much anything, although I'd be curious to see how an Irelia built like this fairs... I think she'd do better than any other kind of Irelia.

To be fair, it's not going to work in EVERY situation, but it can work well in a lot.

When maxing W and getting AS, she can out DPS Garen's spins by activating W when he tries to spin on you. You'll win those exchanges. Then you buy your armor and get wit's end and it's over, he loses lane for free. That makes Garen pretty much useless. Things like that, make this a viable build to know about and have ready if you're an avid Irelia player, but it won't work in every single situation. Just a lot of them.

Then again, Irelia with TF doesn't work in every situation either, so it's really no less effective in that respect. I think you'd be surprised at your strength with this build.
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JakofAllSpaydes (110) | September 26, 2011 9:18pm
Nighthawk wrote:

didn't actually look at dat ire build before (comment was in general), so i'll just say dammn, super tank indeed, except you don't get Atma's (yet you get Randuin's + Warmogs)



you don't get Triforce on Irelia (little less worried about this tho)




Plus what I was talking about is early game, if you watched the video, it was @around 20 - 30 min when you only have 1 or 2 items. Irelia with just Wit's End, HoG and Philo will just get ****ed up by someone who counters her main damage and can still do damage of their own (olaf, ww, cho, mundo) with only 1 item + boots. It's a little less prevalent with Irelia since you get early as and max hiten first, but you don't get any real damage until late game when you get bloodrazor.

2 or more of these counters basically **** on your playstyle (I shudder to think of Lanewick, Olaf and Cho in any sort of combination) since they all have either %hp or true damage skills and can just counter your damage completely.

Thoughts?


Why did you quote "SHUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN"
XD
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darkr3x | September 26, 2011 8:10pm
DuffTime wrote:



Alistar is strong all game.

Feel free to add me in game and I'll show you some tips in a custom game sometime.

Same name.


Added. Next week is going to be interesting with Ali on free rotation
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Nighthawk (677) | September 26, 2011 6:33pm
didn't actually look at dat ire build before (comment was in general), so i'll just say dammn, super tank indeed, except you don't get Atma's (yet you get Randuin's + Warmogs)


SHUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


you don't get Triforce on Irelia (little less worried about this tho)



SHUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


Plus what I was talking about is early game, if you watched the video, it was @around 20 - 30 min when you only have 1 or 2 items. Irelia with just Wit's End, HoG and Philo will just get ****ed up by someone who counters her main damage and can still do damage of their own (olaf, ww, cho, mundo) with only 1 item + boots. It's a little less prevalent with Irelia since you get early as and max hiten first, but you don't get any real damage until late game when you get bloodrazor.

2 or more of these counters basically **** on your playstyle (I shudder to think of Lanewick, Olaf and Cho in any sort of combination) since they all have either %hp or true damage skills and can just counter your damage completely.

Thoughts?
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DuffTime (670) | September 26, 2011 5:39pm
It's just a different way. This way you're gonna be a damn super tank ^^
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JakofAllSpaydes (110) | September 26, 2011 5:31pm
Loll I trust u so I'll try it when I get back
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DuffTime (670) | September 26, 2011 5:27pm

NO TRINITY FOR IRELIA?????

SHUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


lol'd

Try it man >:P

Trinity is still good on her. I get it some games, I'm just offering a new way to play her.
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DuffTime (670) | September 26, 2011 5:26pm
Nighthawk wrote:

The problem with building defense first on most of your team (philo, HoG etc) is that your ****ed if they rush a counter to your only early damage.
http://season-one-championship.na.leagueoflegends.com/match/team-solomid-vs-tbd-semi-final-match-1


WW's been nerfed since this, but if you skip to 40 min you'll see exactly what im talking about. (it's a bit past 40 min actually but w/e)

Not only WW can do that, but Cho, Olaf, Xin, Mundo, Nasus, etc etc etc.


You're going to have to be a bit more specific with what you mean by that.

For example, building defense on a Phoenix stance Udyr could be rushing Wit's End, merc tread's, and Randuin's Omen. That build for Phoenix Udyr does a lot of damage, truth be told.

You're getting tanky, and you're still dealing damage.

That's the principle behind this new Irelia build here. You're dealing "sustained burst damage" by leveling and activating your W, and using on hit items like Wit's end.

Your damage will be surprisingly high for the duration of W and with the AS runes, but most importantly you'll be a legitimate tank to boot.
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DuffTime (670) | September 26, 2011 5:23pm
darkr3x wrote:

Being that aggressive gets me killed more oten than not, though that might be the difference between plv10 and plv30 as much at it is my ham-fistedness. On that note, I need to watch some other people play Ali and get a feel for how pros drive him, because really I love Alistar mid -late game but struggle with the first couple of minutes.


Alistar is strong all game.

Feel free to add me in game and I'll show you some tips in a custom game sometime.

Same name.
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JakofAllSpaydes (110) | September 26, 2011 3:41pm
NO TRINITY FOR IRELIA?????

SHUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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Nighthawk (677) | September 26, 2011 3:39pm
The problem with building defense first on most of your team (philo, HoG etc) is that your ****ed if they rush a counter to your only early damage.
http://season-one-championship.na.leagueoflegends.com/match/team-solomid-vs-tbd-semi-final-match-1


WW's been nerfed since this, but if you skip to 40 min you'll see exactly what im talking about. (it's a bit past 40 min actually but w/e)

Not only WW can do that, but Cho, Olaf, Xin, Mundo, Nasus, etc etc etc.
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darkr3x | September 26, 2011 3:36pm
Being that aggressive gets me killed more oten than not, though that might be the difference between plv10 and plv30 as much at it is my ham-fistedness. On that note, I need to watch some other people play Ali and get a feel for how pros drive him, because really I love Alistar mid -late game but struggle with the first couple of minutes.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 26, 2011 3:20pm
It really depends on the champion to be honest!

On Cho Gath the TF is one of my last items, because hard resistances abuse his ulti so well that it's just a better investment of gold to buff up my resistances first.

On Jarvan or Yi, Wriggles and Merc treads or merc treads and a chain vest with defensive masteries and a HoG can be enough defense early, and you might consider getting the TF faster to increase your mid game damage output.

I think some people struggle with it at first because I don't follow the traditional "Sit back and farm for 30 minutes" game style. I am aggressive and I try to win my lane not just by out farming, but also by denying farm or even killing my opponent.
1
[-]
darkr3x | September 26, 2011 2:30pm
I see now why you've been saying to front load the TF, it certainly makes things work out a little better. However, I can almost never get solo top to work on this and even if i do, it's usualy paired aginst taric/singed and ashe/Miss f. Guess I'll just have to keep playing and ranking up.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 26, 2011 9:12am
Lol!

At first I was like... Uhhh >:( And then I was like Ohhh >:)
1
[-]
Admiral Sparkle | September 26, 2011 3:04am
So, I'm a relatively new LoL player, and I recently started jungling Jarvan. I've been building him as a trinity tanky DPS (I think?) and it's worked pretty well. THAT SAID... I gave your guide a shot and started building a bit more tanky and bumping my resistances just a taaaad higher, and I have to say... This complete ****. And by "this" I mean how much chaos I'm causing! You, sir, are a genius. (Compliment, by the way)
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 25, 2011 10:57pm
Between recalls, Doran's and tele's you really should be fine.

I don't even use mana regen runes every game (I do occasionally use the yellows) but, with tele I don't have much of an issue.
1
[-]
showerhead | September 25, 2011 9:21pm
I do run mp5 yellows and blues. Just seems very slow regen now. As for masteries, I use the tank tree more than utility, however, when I tried this new build I was running your masteries. I took tele, but that's not really regen, that b'ing and tp back. I'll try it a few more times see if its just me.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 25, 2011 8:51pm
Are you not running teleport? :P Or taking a solo lane? I take a solo and run tele...

You'll need to run the correct masteries and you can even take Mana per 5 yellows or blues if you really want to spam skills.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 25, 2011 8:50pm
o_O

I don't have any of those issues when I use him this way, lol.
1
[-]
showerhead | September 25, 2011 7:54pm
A little confused about the ali build. Looks just like the standard AP build, not an OT build, and is very uncomfortable after the previous one. He seems very squishy early and his mana regen is atrocious. I modified the previous build so that I started out with 2 faerie pendants instead of 1 and a regrowth pendant, ended up selling 2nd after philo, but my mana regen was amazing. Now he just feels lacking in almost everything.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 23, 2011 8:25pm
Armor and potions provides more survivability but you can start regen health pot if you like to get the fast base / buy philo stone and boots / teleport back to lane.

That's very strong as well.
1
[-]
boner1fic | September 23, 2011 7:05pm
ahhhh,thnk you master,now ill try it out,but can i get a fearie charm and rejuv bead instead of the cloth armor and potions,or will the armor and potions provide more survivability???
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 23, 2011 12:04pm
Quoted:


hey,is the update made for irelia,cause i noticed you completely revamped
her build,im still using the old one you made cause the new one doesnt seem that fun
is this build more viable after her recent nerfs and why is it you removed trinity force
from her????

oh and btw +1 for this great post


Weird, I thought I responded to this o_O

Basically, Irelia has had a lot of her damage through spells removed.

As the meta evolves, it's going back through a "CC AoE" bomb phase.

As important as dealing damage is, surviving the CC bomb is even more important right now. That's the reason for the items you find here.

The way this Irelia build works, is ALL of her real damage is coming from auto attacks, using on hit procs from items with more defensive stats.

This is a much much tankier Irelia build, with admittedly less damage, but still, if you are able to get to a target and land auto attacks on them, they will go down.

If you really must have Triforce, you can replace Wit's end in the build order.

You'll also notice, you have 200 armor and almost 190 MR with your finished gear. As you auto attack, your MR will push over 200.

With this build you are essentially a REAL tank, with OFFTANK- like damage, which is very powerful. Not many champions can achieve that.

(Situations when you might not want to use a build like this are when you're vrs Vayne or Kog Maw.)



Due to the current meta game and the strength of running a mean huge bruiser type top, I've been using a lot of teleport myself, and I must say it works like a charm.

You pull one of their team members away, and show up suddenly to a dragon or team fight and have a distinct advantage.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 23, 2011 11:59am
The Maokai and Cho Gath builds are excellent and have been updated withing the past week.
1
[-]
0gerbaby | September 23, 2011 10:06am
Nice build, but i would think about the build of MAOKAI and CHO`GATH. It seems they´re not realy usefull
1
[-]
boner1fic | September 23, 2011 6:55am
DuffTime wrote:

Minor update made.

hey,is the update made for irelia,cause i noticed you completely revamped
her build,im still using the old one you made cause the new one doesnt seem that fun
is this build more viable after her recent nerfs and why is it you removed trinity force
from her????

oh and btw +1 for this great post
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 22, 2011 11:22am
Minor update made.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 21, 2011 11:57am
^^
1
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Indifference (3) | September 21, 2011 6:45am
You have exactly the same opinion as me considering the game mechanics and also, your attitude towards the game. I suggest that maybe you add to your guide some new champs (even if your slots are allready full). Wukong is great for opposing team disruption with his ulti, as well as Yorick's ulti for targetting your AD carry and late game, turning the tables around. These 2 are my current "Trinity offtanks" faves, especially 'cause of the mobility they have and some deception they offer (clone and ghouls).

Other than that, +1.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | September 1, 2011 11:53am
It's an issue with the website, they are working on it.

Thanks! :)
1
[-]
Mattinator | September 1, 2011 6:27am
Why is everything writed 2 times? :P

But really good guide and every part is good explained.
Good job :)
1
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DuffTime (670) | August 30, 2011 9:47pm
o_O Okiee... :P
1
[-]
Nighthawk (677) | August 30, 2011 5:19pm
Malz has his pool/ult?

Annie has tibbers. Annie is inferior to Brand, but they are both relatively good against offtanks.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 29, 2011 7:31pm
What's Annie or Malz gonna do? Brand's the only one who can bang.
1
[-]
cheefy | August 29, 2011 4:54pm
well i meant more so its not the ONLY thing.
1
[-]
Nighthawk (677) | August 29, 2011 4:33pm
Sure they can. Ever met Malz? Annie? Brand?

:c

EDIT: ****, that was my 1337th post and I wanted to do something in a new thread >.>
EDIT2: ooh, deleting a post actually does delete a post now, sneaky admins are sneaky. Time to go post my farewell thread then.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 29, 2011 4:20pm
o_O AP top can't solo effectively vrs a scary bruiser.
1
[-]
Nighthawk (677) | August 29, 2011 3:56pm
I thought AD Carries would be going mid again, but I figured it would be dual ap top and bot as well...idk.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 29, 2011 12:06pm
Nighthawk wrote:

Yo Duff.

I predict double AP making a rise again. You gonna make an AP, the new metagame guide?

If it does.


Maybe it will in EU but it's not likely going to happen here after all.

I thought it might but it didn't.

I actually predict that we may see our AD carries going mid again soon. I'm not positive yet but I suspect that it may happen.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 29, 2011 12:04pm
cheefy wrote:

not a 200cs.

Add cheefy if you ever wanna play a game!


First off thanks for the positive feedback!

Secondly, couldn't disagree more. CS is #1. It's everything in this game. If your team is awful but they horrifically out farm the enemy, you still can win in team fights.

Cheers!
1
[-]
Nighthawk (677) | August 28, 2011 8:49pm
Yo Duff.

I predict double AP making a rise again. You gonna make an AP, the new metagame guide?

If it does.
1
[-]
cheefy | August 28, 2011 8:42pm
I created this account solely to post on this guide and would just like to say your play style points and item guide is mathematically the strong suit of this guide but more importantly I respect this guide the most for its practicality for an off-tank's contribution to the TEAM. I really enjoy when players understand simple math and apply it to SUPPORT you're game skills, you make strong points about how ultimately game awareness will win you this game, not a 200cs. If you're as practical as me you really like it when people say you're practical ;). Add cheefy if you ever wanna play a game!
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 27, 2011 12:20pm
Hah. Thanks bro.

Keep in mind you'll still want to learn all styles of play, because this is only one option of many available and it's not always the best one.

Cheers!
1
[-]
Alwayssecond | August 27, 2011 6:00am
Great guide! I definately am not a high ELO player, but i have the brains to understand what I should do to become one. This guide definately helps and i love the way how you handle the possible flamers of your guide. Keep up the great work!
1
[-]
JakofAllSpaydes (110) | August 24, 2011 11:24am
lol...
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 24, 2011 10:31am

anyways, why doesnt this have a rec? :( it certainly deserves one. I wish i was a vetttt D:


Mostly because I treat all people equally, and have down-voted most builds by most Vet's, and they don't like me :)

I'm sure a lot of Vet's would disagree with what I've just said but that doesn't mean much to me. :D
1
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JakofAllSpaydes (110) | August 24, 2011 9:25am
okay. Servers are down, im bored, and i have nothing to do. So ima bother you by posting another comment.HUHEUHEUHEUEH

anyways, why doesnt this have a rec? :( it certainly deserves one. I wish i was a vetttt D:
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 23, 2011 12:43pm
Moondaemon wrote:

Thanks for the builds:) I usually play tanky-dps with Irelia, this alternative seems really nice though.


:D
1
[-]
Moondaemon | August 23, 2011 10:21am
Thanks for the builds:) I usually play tanky-dps with Irelia, this alternative seems really nice though.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 21, 2011 3:17pm

The double sections are annoying but dats prolly a bug. What i like is yer way of writing like in yo other builds. You give proper builds for all the champions u cheatsheeted and the guide is really well explained and in-depth. It was a VERY VERY VERY long guide but it was worth it>:3.

+1


Cheers, yeah it's a bug. I may fix it sometime soon.
1
[-]
SirSpankAlot (106) | August 21, 2011 2:01pm
The double sections are annoying but dats prolly a bug. What i like is yer way of writing like in yo other builds. You give proper builds for all the champions u cheatsheeted and the guide is really well explained and in-depth. It was a VERY VERY VERY long guide but it was worth it>:3.

+1
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 21, 2011 1:43am
Avendil wrote:

I've tried this build on Irelia, ant this is awesome. If u switch a bunch of items depending on the game, you will be unstopable. Just need to be carefull untill you get your trinity blade, but it is easy :).
Thanks for this, now I wanna see your other builds and may be buy champions only to test those on them!
Voted +1


Cheers mate and good luck :D
1
[-]
Avendil | August 20, 2011 2:05pm
I've tried this build on Irelia, ant this is awesome. If u switch a bunch of items depending on the game, you will be unstopable. Just need to be carefull untill you get your trinity blade, but it is easy :).
Thanks for this, now I wanna see your other builds and may be buy champions only to test those on them!
Voted +1
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 19, 2011 12:00pm

man who in the right mind would play irelia with those items -1 :D


Rofl. :P

Noob.
1
[-]
Twitchinator9000 | August 19, 2011 10:57am
man who in the right mind would play irelia with those items -1 :D
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 19, 2011 9:08am
JoeDaBan wrote:

Finnaly I ve found guide for Jarv and Lee that I really like, + funny readin one, + I love ur attitude "I am who I am, I play as I play, if u dont like it hate me and kiss me ***" so definitelly thumbs up!


Cheers mate :P
1
[-]
JoeDaBan | August 19, 2011 3:16am
Finnaly I ve found guide for Jarv and Lee that I really like, + funny readin one, + I love ur attitude "I am who I am, I play as I play, if u dont like it hate me and kiss me ***" so definitelly thumbs up!
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 19, 2011 1:47am
Xenasis wrote:

Looks like that for the champions too, bug, I'd imagine.


Yes it was a bug.

It's kinda cool for the champs :P

But for the guide it's a nuisance.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 19, 2011 1:46am
jhoijhoi wrote:

Is it just me, or is has this guide duplicated every section?


It has indeed Senorita.

I'm not sure why. I've been reluctant to edit it, because I worry that deletion of one of the duplicates may erase something entirely o_O
1
[-]
Xenasis (164) | August 18, 2011 5:48pm
jhoijhoi wrote:

Is it just me, or is has this guide duplicated every section?


Looks like that for the champions too, bug, I'd imagine.
1
[-]
jhoijhoi (1892) | August 18, 2011 5:47pm
Is it just me, or is has this guide duplicated every section?
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 17, 2011 9:01am

Btw, Skarner can be built mimicking either of the alistar builds +1


I would imagine that to be true.
1
[-]
Spartacus697 (1) | August 17, 2011 12:23am
Btw, Skarner can be built mimicking either of the alistar builds +1
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 15, 2011 10:28am

the irelia build works perfect for me (:


Thanks, me too 8D

Although it's a bit dated, she's much different now.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 15, 2011 10:26am
JashobeamZ wrote:

good guide man +1 , like the sauciness. i must say your builds are all quite similar with the heart of gold, or the philosophers stone start for one or both. do you find that the gold per 10 is really that much of a game changer? would it be more frugal to spend your gold towards getting your resistances up that much faster? opinion? is the extra 600/1200 gold at the 25 minute mark worth being weaker for the early/mid game? and do you play your team style around postponing any real team fights until late game where you have the slight(or possibly more extreme) advantage? wouldn't this be easily countered by early game aggression?

whatever the answer great job, very beneficial read, and I will be trying out the difference of builds in my own question, just thought you might be able to shed light and save me some time maybe.


Well I don't fight as often as people do at a lower level of play.

I get my lane sustain items fast because I farm well, and I generally stick hard in the lane.

I force my lane opponent to stay with me as well, so that if they leave they lose a tower. That way my team doesn't have to 4v5 while I farm, it's a fair 4v4.

In this way, I don't have that issue of being weak. I have what I need to stay in lane, and I keep my lane protected by wards.

So yes, the answer is that my style (And the style of most higher level of play) is to drag out laning phase until one team completes good core items, then that team, AS a TEAM decides it's time to fight and forces fights where they can.

At a lower level, where I imagine you may be, just farm until you personally feel strong. Each champion is different and have different roles, so you'll need to evaluate how strong you need to be, dmg, defense, etc, before you try to fight.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 15, 2011 10:26am
JashobeamZ wrote:

good guide man +1 , like the sauciness. i must say your builds are all quite similar with the heart of gold, or the philosophers stone start for one or both. do you find that the gold per 10 is really that much of a game changer? would it be more frugal to spend your gold towards getting your resistances up that much faster? opinion? is the extra 600/1200 gold at the 25 minute mark worth being weaker for the early/mid game? and do you play your team style around postponing any real team fights until late game where you have the slight(or possibly more extreme) advantage? wouldn't this be easily countered by early game aggression?

whatever the answer great job, very beneficial read, and I will be trying out the difference of builds in my own question, just thought you might be able to shed light and save me some time maybe.


Well I don't fight as often as people do at a lower level of play.

I get my lane sustain items fast because I farm well, and I generally stick hard in the lane.

I force my lane opponent to stay with me as well, so that if they leave they lose a tower. That way my team doesn't have to 4v5 while I farm, it's a fair 4v4.

In this way, I don't have that issue of being weak. I have what I need to stay in lane, and I keep my lane protected by wards.

So yes, the answer is that my style (And the style of most higher level of play) is to drag out laning phase until one team completes good core items, then that team, AS a TEAM decides it's time to fight and forces fights where they can.

At a lower level, where I imagine you may be, just farm until you personally feel strong. Each champion is different and have different roles, so you'll need to evaluate how strong you need to be, dmg, defense, etc, before you try to fight.
1
[-]
Angstgegner | August 14, 2011 4:06am
the irelia build works perfect for me (:
1
[-]
JashobeamZ | August 13, 2011 8:54pm
good guide man +1 , like the sauciness. i must say your builds are all quite similar with the heart of gold, or the philosophers stone start for one or both. do you find that the gold per 10 is really that much of a game changer? would it be more frugal to spend your gold towards getting your resistances up that much faster? opinion? is the extra 600/1200 gold at the 25 minute mark worth being weaker for the early/mid game? and do you play your team style around postponing any real team fights until late game where you have the slight(or possibly more extreme) advantage? wouldn't this be easily countered by early game aggression?

whatever the answer great job, very beneficial read, and I will be trying out the difference of builds in my own question, just thought you might be able to shed light and save me some time maybe.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 11, 2011 9:28am
Quoted:

No Nunu? :O I solo'd top vs Mord and Rumble and got a double kill as soon as I hit lvl 6. Maybe they were just bad but yeah... Nunu can be a tanky dps can't he?


Mmmmm... =P

They were probably just bad. This sounds like the kinda thing that would happen verse players who aren't level 30 yet xP (Potentially a player who JUST turned 30, ionno.)

Nunu has good lane sustain and I think people do underestimate his capability as a solo in some ways, but I also simultaneously think there's better options available.
1
[-]
randomguy#96201 | August 11, 2011 2:16am
No Nunu? :O I solo'd top vs Mord and Rumble and got a double kill as soon as I hit lvl 6. Maybe they were just bad but yeah... Nunu can be a tanky dps can't he?
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 10, 2011 5:39pm

Fantastic guide nice job. This guide has helped me really up my game.


Thanks man, cheers =)
1
[-]
SuperPotato | August 10, 2011 5:38pm
Fantastic guide nice job. This guide has helped me really up my game.
1
[-]
SuperPotato | August 10, 2011 5:38pm
Fantastic guide nice job. This guide has helped me really up my game.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 10, 2011 9:29am

why all doublepost?


Dunno.. When I originally posted it it wasn't like that.
1
[-]
inferno adze (1) | August 10, 2011 2:11am
why all doublepost?
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 9, 2011 9:13am
Pwnengine wrote:

Great guide. Im an ex die hard DOTA player and after messing around on LOL for a couple of weeks ive found everything you said about off tanks to be true BEFORE reading this. The guide on armor effects was particularly helpful.


Cheers mate =)

Being a DotA player I'm sure you already know about the delicacies of itemization and countering opponents etc as well. =p (I never got deep into DotA so I could be wrong.)
1
[-]
Pwnengine (1) | August 9, 2011 2:30am
Great guide. Im an ex die hard DOTA player and after messing around on LOL for a couple of weeks ive found everything you said about off tanks to be true BEFORE reading this. The guide on armor effects was particularly helpful.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 8, 2011 8:57pm

Most intelligent thing I've read on these mobafire guides. Made an account just to +1 it. DuffManGG soon to be.


;)

Thanks bro, I appreciate the kind words, and the very flattering comparison haha.
1
[-]
Nasty Gnarls | August 8, 2011 8:24pm
Most intelligent thing I've read on these mobafire guides. Made an account just to +1 it. DuffManGG soon to be.
1
[-]
JakofAllSpaydes (110) | August 8, 2011 3:59pm
DuffTime wrote:



I know. I didn't do it though and I are lazy =P


lol...
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 8, 2011 12:38am

Hey duff, I think you need to fix this up a bit O.o
everything is doubled.
anyways, i voted this up ages ago.


I know. I didn't do it though and I are lazy =P
1
[-]
JakofAllSpaydes (110) | August 8, 2011 12:22am
Hey duff, I think you need to fix this up a bit O.o
everything is doubled.
anyways, i voted this up ages ago.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 7, 2011 8:43pm

+1
So many solo queuers go for the carrys, ap or ad. Tanks, who can carry... excellent concept/idea :). well i like it anyway. I'm yet to try it as i dont really own an off tank yet, but as soon as i buy Irelia this will be the first thing i try. Barely anyone tanks as they find it boring etc/its too "difficult" for them.
Amazing guide, Will put into action as soon as I can.

Just as a side note: when i play ranked on my other account i generally support and request the AD carry goes with me. Few do the same as most players seem to lack common sense.
A 300+dps Ashe cant do much if shes dead, with this build carrys should survive more often.
Thanks :D


:D
1
[-]
lalala14690 (2) | August 7, 2011 8:13pm
+1
So many solo queuers go for the carrys, ap or ad. Tanks, who can carry... excellent concept/idea :). well i like it anyway. I'm yet to try it as i dont really own an off tank yet, but as soon as i buy Irelia this will be the first thing i try. Barely anyone tanks as they find it boring etc/its too "difficult" for them.
Amazing guide, Will put into action as soon as I can.

Just as a side note: when i play ranked on my other account i generally support and request the AD carry goes with me. Few do the same as most players seem to lack common sense.
A 300+dps Ashe cant do much if shes dead, with this build carrys should survive more often.
Thanks :D
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 7, 2011 12:41pm
Tchusser wrote:

I have tried it once with Jarvan and my team won with 9/3/27
Their LeBlanc took away a quarter of my life with her burst, and as your guide said, I literally crushed her Ashe (on 1vs1, I couldn't see the difference on my hp bar before and after the fight (that I won))
I was lvl 18 when everyone was still lvl 13-15, God knows why...
But yeah great guide and thanks a lot!


Hahah, cheers mate, glad you found success =)
1
[-]
Tchusser | August 7, 2011 10:35am
+1
1
[-]
Tchusser | August 7, 2011 10:35am
I have tried it once with Jarvan and my team won with 9/3/27
Their LeBlanc took away a quarter of my life with her burst, and as your guide said, I literally crushed her Ashe (on 1vs1, I couldn't see the difference on my hp bar before and after the fight (that I won))
I was lvl 18 when everyone was still lvl 13-15, God knows why...
But yeah great guide and thanks a lot!
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 7, 2011 3:21am

Finally, the first person I've seen who understands what is what and knows what he is doing. Personally, Irelia was one of my favourite champions when early when I started LoL. You have made me learn Irelia even more and have increased the communities knowledge of the new Meta-Game. Whether it's trolls or haters.
I registered for Mobafire just to comment on this.


Preciate that man =)
1
[-]
Tactical Enemy | August 7, 2011 12:28am
Finally, the first person I've seen who understands what is what and knows what he is doing. Personally, Irelia was one of my favourite champions when early when I started LoL. You have made me learn Irelia even more and have increased the communities knowledge of the new Meta-Game. Whether it's trolls or haters.
I registered for Mobafire just to comment on this.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 5, 2011 2:59pm

This guide is an excellent read. I must commend you on an incredibly informative and well written guide. Easy for noobs like me to read and understand. You're a charismatic writer. You ought to write a book or something :) Great work.


8D

Thanks. If I could remember how to cry, I might have shed a single tear. =) But I grew too many muscles around my eyes and my tear ducts have long since closed shut. *FLEX

Thanks brodie, I'll write a book about Offtanking x)
1
[-]
Twitchinator9000 | August 5, 2011 1:48pm
ahh the natrual order has been restored by this young man right here you saved us all corpalfists by voting this guide to 667
1
[-]
CorporalFists | August 5, 2011 12:38am
This guide is an excellent read. I must commend you on an incredibly informative and well written guide. Easy for noobs like me to read and understand. You're a charismatic writer. You ought to write a book or something :) Great work.
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 4, 2011 10:29pm

duff ur guide is cursed you have 666 votes


I know I saw =P
1
[-]
Twitchinator9000 | August 4, 2011 8:05pm
duff ur guide is cursed you have 666 votes
1
[-]
DuffTime (670) | August 4, 2011 4:22pm

well yes because being an off tank ur items are all situational except for ur gold items and trinity


Ye, just gotta evaluate why you're taking dmg etc. Often times the ability to kill something faster is a better defense than the ability to take more punishment. =3

Sometimes if my team does really good damage I just full tank, get Frozen mallet and say fk it, I will be slow/stun-bot this game. I've even gone as far as to get FM/Rylai's on Irelia xP
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Twitchinator9000 | August 4, 2011 2:29pm
DuffTime wrote:



Yeah it's an option. I'd say evaluate it game by game personally =3


well yes because being an off tank ur items are all situational except for ur gold items and trinity
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DuffTime (670) | August 4, 2011 1:10pm

yeah i also decided im gonna be getting a sf cape instead of a madreds cuz i like being tanky xD


Yeah it's an option. I'd say evaluate it game by game personally =3
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Twitchinator9000 | August 4, 2011 12:48pm
yeah i also decided im gonna be getting a sf cape instead of a madreds cuz i like being tanky xD
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DuffTime (670) | August 4, 2011 12:37pm
Irelia's kinda weak early game though in my opinion. So for her a 1v2 can potentially be incredibly difficult.
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DuffTime (670) | August 4, 2011 12:36pm

yeah i noticed 1v2 is pretty hard when i do it on irelia but like most champs she has a skill to sneak creep kills but duff i gotta say in a 2v1 lane you cant keep up with there mid in cs because if you **** up once in a 2v1 lane you will either be dead or forced to recall and ask ur jungler to hold your lane i found that irelia is a pretty decent mid champion to lol i beat an annie mid with ease


Yeah she's decent mid. I prefer Akali mid in most cases, but they're built for entirely different functions so I'm not sure why I even said that =P

I think I said it because I prefer to have my mid be a reliable damage dealer. You -generally- want at least one solo to be a good damage dealer, and top lane is risky for most damage dealers.
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Twitchinator9000 | August 4, 2011 12:27pm
yeah i noticed 1v2 is pretty hard when i do it on irelia but like most champs she has a skill to sneak creep kills but duff i gotta say in a 2v1 lane you cant keep up with there mid in cs because if you **** up once in a 2v1 lane you will either be dead or forced to recall and ask ur jungler to hold your lane i found that irelia is a pretty decent mid champion to lol i beat an annie mid with ease
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DuffTime (670) | August 4, 2011 9:54am
okiy dokey wrote:

This post bro...seems to have made me better overall. I was strugling how to build an effective off tank. I've gotten better at item adjustments and in reading the enemy team (although you didn't, if at all, touch on the subject). I really like the build but I have one question that has been bugging me. Why get the mana regen on Jarvan. I ask because he's my main. =P


Same reason you get health regen.

It's funny how this works, but having a constantly replenishing mana pool, over the course of a lane, will translate into having more health as well. How, you ask?

Solo lane dynamic is generally rather simple. If you start winning, in most cases you just keep winning, unless a jungler interrupts things. This is why wards are so important... (Exceptions include, Nidalee, Irelia, Sion, etc. Any champion who's ult either brings them back into the lane, or pushes you out of it.)

What I mean by all that in essence, is if you land 3 good spears in a row, chances are your opponent is gonna hurt. He won't like it very much ;P With the aggresive style of play, you'll deal your opponent lots of damage, and try to take control of the lane. With your sustain, you won't -lose- that control as soon as your mana runs out; it keeps coming back.

Jarvan is also a great solo top pick, because he can be played aggressively, or defensively. He can easily 1v2 if you just buy a philo stone and a Warden's mail, and simply use flag to last hit minions from your tower. Ward the bush nearest your tower so they won't be able to as effectively zone you, and just snipe minions and turret hug.

All of that, however, is 100% reliant on mana. Jarvan in lane has lots of utility and potential, but he needs a stream of mana to be effective. Clever usage and timing of skills helps as well.

=)

Basically, if you can -beat- your opponent once or twice in confrontations, they won't be as much of a threat to you because they know they will lose. If they see you have no mana, they might get a little froggy and jump.

If you can't beat 1-2 players, Jarvan is blessed, because you -don't need- lane control to farm. Yes, you will miss a lot of creeps in a 1v2 with Jarvan, but not as many as a lot of other bruiser melee types, like Garen or Xin would have lost. =)
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okiy dokey | August 4, 2011 12:58am
This post bro...seems to have made me better overall. I was strugling how to build an effective off tank. I've gotten better at item adjustments and in reading the enemy team (although you didn't, if at all, touch on the subject). I really like the build but I have one question that has been bugging me. Why get the mana regen on Jarvan. I ask because he's my main. =P
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Twitchinator9000 | August 3, 2011 8:16pm
u see the key behind this is that ur tankier than there tank because you get more money

than him and you do more damage than there dps because you have your wardans mail and ur

neg cloak reducing damage when they dont have anything but damage itens
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Egypsian_Lover (50) | August 3, 2011 4:32pm
huehuehuehuehue +1
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 5:42pm
lets gp 1v1 now duff
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 2:02pm
DuffTime wrote:

You sorta failed on that quote by the way. =P

I'll be at work for another 4 hours roughly.


kk xD
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DuffTime (670) | August 2, 2011 1:54pm
You sorta failed on that quote by the way. =P

I'll be at work for another 4 hours roughly.
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 1:49pm
mine is will2202985 xD
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 1:48pm
DuffTime wrote:



Same summoner name in game as Moba. I go balls deep bro. All my haters know where to find me =D

Uhm.. Yes. Morons like Canoas, and Mooninites, etc.

lolol
so how bout that 1v1

Mobafire trolls who watch a lot of stream and think the way their idols do it it the ONLY way to do it.

******s who aren't willing to do any innovative thinking of their own.

Sheep.

Should I continue? Lol.
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DuffTime (670) | August 2, 2011 1:37pm

i think it has somthing to do with the fact that ur guide was quite original and mine was just another twitch guide plus the only people who downvoted ur guide were prolly morons or trolls cuz it was a real good guide


Same summoner name in game as Moba. I go balls deep bro. All my haters know where to find me =D

Uhm.. Yes. Morons like Canoas, and Mooninites, etc.

Mobafire trolls who watch a lot of stream and think the way their idols do it it the ONLY way to do it.

******s who aren't willing to do any innovative thinking of their own.

Sheep.

Should I continue? Lol.
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 1:02pm
DuffTime wrote:



I dno bra it comes with being the best 8D


i think it has somthing to do with the fact that ur guide was quite original and mine was just another twitch guide plus the only people who downvoted ur guide were prolly morons or trolls cuz it was a real good guide
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 1:01pm
DuffTime wrote:



K bro, you ganna get bodied.

Same UN, come at me bra.


idk i prolly will xD but whats ur summoner name?
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 1:00pm
DuffTime wrote:



+ rep


XD
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DuffTime (670) | August 2, 2011 12:42pm

i wish i could rep myself to and duff how did you make such a sucessful guide the guide i made has 2 votes -.- a down vote and a vote up and i fixed the down voters problems except that he was annoying cuz he mad at the way i play twitch


I dno bra it comes with being the best 8D
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DuffTime (670) | August 2, 2011 12:41pm

and duff lets gp 1v1 xD


K bro, you ganna get bodied.

Same UN, come at me bra.
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DuffTime (670) | August 2, 2011 12:40pm
kin333x wrote:

... talking to your self?


+ rep
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 12:22pm
and duff lets gp 1v1 xD
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 12:19pm
i wish i could rep myself to and duff how did you make such a sucessful guide the guide i made has 2 votes -.- a down vote and a vote up and i fixed the down voters problems except that he was annoying cuz he mad at the way i play twitch
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 12:17pm
kin333x wrote:


... talking to your self?


haha yeah i didint realize i could reply to my own comments
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Legogood | August 2, 2011 11:46am
double post?
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kin333x (25) | August 2, 2011 11:39am



come at me bro

... talking to your self?
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 11:19am



stfu noob


come at me bro
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 11:19am



because it did


stfu noob
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 11:19am

wth why the hell did it make 2 of those lololol


because it did
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 11:18am
wth why the hell did it make 2 of those lololol
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 11:18am
DuffTime wrote:



My favorite champion to play is probably Gangplank, and has since since pre-buff.

I used to play Jarvan solo top a lot more than I do now. I can't get a team who's willing to play the way I need to make Jarvan work, so I just don't play him anymore. Lol. I win almost every lane with him, it just doesn't matter.

Whereas with GP I'm more able to adapt to my team, rather than need a team to adapt to me. His toolkit is fantastic, and he's generally pretty safe. Move speed steroid, heal, slows, and a targetable damage skill, with a nice AoE ult that slows. I just love the utility he carries.

Corki was my main AD carry type champ, but I've only played one game with him since the reworks. I've been playing mostly melee's and AP champs recently, only carry from time to time. (I don't like to carry as much in pub normals cause I can't rely on scrubs to tank and it can be frustrating.)

Alistar is probably the best champion listed here...


rofl i have the oppsite problem i never wanna play rammus cuz my ad/ap 90% of the time sucks so i normally end up jungling noc or laning/roaming twitch
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 11:18am
DuffTime wrote:



My favorite champion to play is probably Gangplank, and has since since pre-buff.

I used to play Jarvan solo top a lot more than I do now. I can't get a team who's willing to play the way I need to make Jarvan work, so I just don't play him anymore. Lol. I win almost every lane with him, it just doesn't matter.

Whereas with GP I'm more able to adapt to my team, rather than need a team to adapt to me. His toolkit is fantastic, and he's generally pretty safe. Move speed steroid, heal, slows, and a targetable damage skill, with a nice AoE ult that slows. I just love the utility he carries.

Corki was my main AD carry type champ, but I've only played one game with him since the reworks. I've been playing mostly melee's and AP champs recently, only carry from time to time. (I don't like to carry as much in pub normals cause I can't rely on scrubs to tank and it can be frustrating.)

Alistar is probably the best champion listed here...


rofl i have the oppsite problem i never wanna play rammus cuz my ad/ap 90% of the time sucks so i normally end up jungling noc or laning/roaming twitch
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Enalung (1) | August 2, 2011 9:34am
Why is everything in 2 copies?
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DuffTime (670) | August 2, 2011 9:13am

duff of all these champions which one do you like the most?


My favorite champion to play is probably Gangplank, and has since since pre-buff.

I used to play Jarvan solo top a lot more than I do now. I can't get a team who's willing to play the way I need to make Jarvan work, so I just don't play him anymore. Lol. I win almost every lane with him, it just doesn't matter.

Whereas with GP I'm more able to adapt to my team, rather than need a team to adapt to me. His toolkit is fantastic, and he's generally pretty safe. Move speed steroid, heal, slows, and a targetable damage skill, with a nice AoE ult that slows. I just love the utility he carries.

Corki was my main AD carry type champ, but I've only played one game with him since the reworks. I've been playing mostly melee's and AP champs recently, only carry from time to time. (I don't like to carry as much in pub normals cause I can't rely on scrubs to tank and it can be frustrating.)

Alistar is probably the best champion listed here...
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 6:21am
duff of all these champions which one do you like the most?
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Twitchinator9000 | August 2, 2011 4:45am
DuffTime wrote:

Yeah Rahk, I've heard it before.

It's just there's looots of % armor reducers in this game, which reduce the efficiency of armor. There are also AS slowers, which tend to protect better than armor respectively.

At the moment I'm not an armor stacking kinda guy, I generally go a bit heavier MR and just one armor item like Randuin's, given the current AP heavy meta. (Wish there were more sweet MR items =3)

Basically, yes, I understand you're buying the same amount of "Effective health" or whatever in your purchases, but in this game, it doesn't play out this way. Resistances slowly lose their efficiency as you go higher and higher.

In change, with just Randuin's and base defensive stats, most champions will sit at 150ish armor, which is already (usually) enough for the function described here.

At that point, unless the champion is like Lee Sin, who's skills deal massive damage, you're usually better off just building an item like Randuin's to nerf their attack speed. Ninja Tabi for dodge, things like that. Things to make attacks slower, because end game, auto attacker rely on crits for their big damage. Dodging, or taking less hits altogether due to slows, is a superior effect to cost ratio than stacking more and more armor.

So although it was worded poorly perhaps, it is true you'll be getting diminishing returns in terms of your cost to effect ratio.

Gavranko, what he's saying is theoretically correct, it's just only correct in theory and doesn't actually play out like that in game.


indeed
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DuffTime (670) | August 1, 2011 9:19am
Yeah Rahk, I've heard it before.

It's just there's looots of % armor reducers in this game, which reduce the efficiency of armor. There are also AS slowers, which tend to protect better than armor respectively.

At the moment I'm not an armor stacking kinda guy, I generally go a bit heavier MR and just one armor item like Randuin's, given the current AP heavy meta. (Wish there were more sweet MR items =3)

Basically, yes, I understand you're buying the same amount of "Effective health" or whatever in your purchases, but in this game, it doesn't play out this way. Resistances slowly lose their efficiency as you go higher and higher.

In change, with just Randuin's and base defensive stats, most champions will sit at 150ish armor, which is already (usually) enough for the function described here.

At that point, unless the champion is like Lee Sin, who's skills deal massive damage, you're usually better off just building an item like Randuin's to nerf their attack speed. Ninja Tabi for dodge, things like that. Things to make attacks slower, because end game, auto attacker rely on crits for their big damage. Dodging, or taking less hits altogether due to slows, is a superior effect to cost ratio than stacking more and more armor.

So although it was worded poorly perhaps, it is true you'll be getting diminishing returns in terms of your cost to effect ratio.

Gavranko, what he's saying is theoretically correct, it's just only correct in theory and doesn't actually play out like that in game.
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Gavranko (5) | August 1, 2011 7:40am
Rakham666 wrote:

Hello DuffTime,

great Guide.
I just wanted to say something to your "A note, in regards to resistances" chapter. If someone already mentioned this please ignore my post.
There is a diminishing return on the AR/MR value that you buy, but not on the value that you gain from it, therefore there is no sweet spot like you assume, with exception to the first step, in case you have no other AR/MR.

I took your rounded numbers, to explain what I mean.

20 armor = 17% damage reduction...
40 armor = 28%
60 armor = 37%
80 armor = 44%
100 armor = 50%
120 armor = 54%
140 armor = 68%
160 armor = 61%

The question is, what do you buy with those 20armor points.
Example.
1000hp 0%armor enemy hits for 100points. -> 10 hits and you are dead
with 17% reduction 12,05 hits are needed. -> 2,05 hits more.
with 28% reduction 13,89 hits are needed. -> 1,84 hits more than with 17%.
with 37% reduction 15,87 hits are needed. -> 1,99 hits more than with 28%.

I hope you get my point. For the whole line, up to 160 armor you always buy ~2 more hits that are needed to kill your char. And that's exactly what you want, more time to kill the enemy before he/she kills you.
There is a diminishing return on armor reduction, but not on its value, which is survivability.

If someone thinks I am wrong, please enlighten me.
I enjoyed reading your guide.

Yours, Rakham


Good point there,buddy.But what DuffTime was trying to say is:It's stupid to go past 180 because then it gets SO expensive for SO little % reduction.True,survivability IS survivability,which IS awesome,but at what price and how efficient?If you already have ninja tabi and a randuin's,what would you rather take:thornmail or warmog's/FoN/Banshee's?Thornmail,if they have a Vayne/Yi/Trynda who was fed by the f2p Karma.But in most cases it'd be one of the latter 3.Much more efficient.
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Rakham666 | August 1, 2011 7:35am
Hello DuffTime,

great Guide.
I just wanted to say something to your "A note, in regards to resistances" chapter. If someone already mentioned this please ignore my post.
There is a diminishing return on the AR/MR value that you buy, but not on the value that you gain from it, therefore there is no sweet spot like you assume, with exception to the first step, in case you have no other AR/MR.

I took your rounded numbers, to explain what I mean.

20 armor = 17% damage reduction...
40 armor = 28%
60 armor = 37%
80 armor = 44%
100 armor = 50%
120 armor = 54%
140 armor = 68%
160 armor = 61%

The question is, what do you buy with those 20armor points.
Example.
1000hp 0%armor enemy hits for 100points. -> 10 hits and you are dead
with 17% reduction 12,05 hits are needed. -> 2,05 hits more.
with 28% reduction 13,89 hits are needed. -> 1,84 hits more than with 17%.
with 37% reduction 15,87 hits are needed. -> 1,98 hits more than with 28%.
with 44% reduction 17,86 hits are needed. -> 1,99 hits more than with 37%.

I hope you get my point. For the whole line, up to 160 armor you always buy ~2 more hits that are needed to kill your char. And that's exactly what you want, more time to kill the enemy before he/she kills you.
There is a diminishing return on armor reduction, but not on its value, which is survivability.

If someone thinks I am wrong, please enlighten me.
I enjoyed reading your guide.

Yours, Rakham
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DuffTime (670) | July 31, 2011 8:22pm

hey duff what would you think about a madreds blood razor in jarvan instead of a atamas impaler


Works great for auto attacking, amazing.

Atma's buffs your skill damage a little better. It's also cheaper.

Just depends what you need.
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Twitchinator9000 | July 31, 2011 6:58pm
hey duff what would you think about a madreds blood razor in jarvan instead of a atamas impaler
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Twitchinator9000 | July 31, 2011 1:55pm
kk
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DuffTime (670) | July 31, 2011 1:24pm

hey duff what would u think about a atamas impaler instead of a madreds for irelia


Well you're losing the -very- important attack speed.

That attack speed with this build accomplishes multiple purposes.

AS with Madred's is pain.

AS with her True damage is pain.

AS with Triforce = they are less likely to recover from your slow debuff, as it will have more chances to apply itself.

It makes her a better chaser and a faster killer, and over all I'm guessing your damage output would be quite a bit higher with Madred's.

=3

The only problem is it's very expensive.
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DuffTime (670) | July 31, 2011 1:24pm

hey duff what would u think about a atamas impaler instead of a madreds for irelia


Well you're losing the -very- important attack speed.

That attack speed with this build accomplishes multiple purposes.

AS with Madred's is pain.

AS with her True damage is pain.

AS with Triforce = they are less likely to recover from your slow debuff, as it will have more chances to apply itself.

It makes her a better chaser and a faster killer, and over all I'm guessing your damage output would be quite a bit higher with Madred's.

=3

The only problem is it's very expensive.
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Twitchinator9000 | July 31, 2011 8:49am
hey duff what would u think about a atamas impaler instead of a madreds for irelia
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Twitchinator9000 | July 31, 2011 7:28am
and i think i understand the concept of an off tank now
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DuffTime (670) | July 31, 2011 3:50am

duff you should mention in this guide irelia is the best champion in the game and she is easy as hell to farm i mean her q is refreashed when she kills a minion therefore 25min of farm=300 cs considering if you do nothing but farm


xD

I've said many times she's an excellent champion =3
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Twitchinator9000 | July 30, 2011 5:22pm
DuffTime wrote:



Have fun with your 25 min of solo lane farm! Lol.


duff you should mention in this guide irelia is the best champion in the game and she is easy as hell to farm i mean her q is refreashed when she kills a minion therefore 25min of farm=300 cs considering if you do nothing but farm
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DuffTime (670) | July 30, 2011 12:58pm