General Guide by leaguesdf

Amazing guide dude! Never even though of Tratmogs (yes thats what im calling it now) on eve, but in combo with her ult it seems like it would work really well! The only problem im having is that i feel you should get atma's before warmogs. im a pretty aggressive player, so when i dont have the dmg its frustrating. I feel like getting warmogs first puts you into a 10 minute zone where your not strong enough to burst someone down, and not tanky enough to sustain a fight long enough to actually win it. Its just personal preference though. This guide could go in the history books, as its definitely a usefull one. i know ill be refering back to this to see changes/updates!

Nice guide :)

i love this guide

this guide has a great deal of information, but I'm afraid some of the builds are incorrect. I won't vote either way, because this is an incredible resource

This is a style of play I really love. I would know, I do it almost every game o_O

This looks just like you must have gone through my history over the past week or two and jotted down what you saw ahueahueahue.

Anyway, I do have a few things I want to point out and hopefully shine some light on;

This is partially true, but the implication you're making that Warmogg's isn't good by itself is horribly false. The same is true for Atma's.

Warmogg's is a great item even as a stand alone without build Atma's. It gives a potential 1370 HP. Nothing else even comes close, Frozen mallet is just half that much. For multipurpose survivability, Warmogg's is probably the best item in League of Legends.

Atma's is another example of a fantastic item, even as a stand alone. It's a misconception that you have to build HP first, false in every possible way. In fact, I've been feeling recently that getting Atma's first and getting the HP later, is better in most cases.

Another thing that I wholeheartedly disagree with... Not building lots of champs with HP because your enemy will buy Madred's. Who cares!? Build up that HP, so that they HAVE to buy Madred's. If they're all building Madred's, they're NOT building big crit damage items that will blow up your squishies. Let them try to counter you, no, FORCE them to try to counter you. If they waste their time doing that, you're giving the rest of your team, particularly your squishies, an advantage.

Another issue:

bottom line: every point of armor/magic resist, gives you 1% extra health aginst that type of damage.

This would be pretty much true, but due to % penning items like last whisper, and the nature of health and Armor being factored through %'s instead of flat numbers, at the end of the day it doesn't play out and it's not that simple.

However, the builds are great and the resistances are high enough so it doesn't really matter.

Also, getting armor early can be useful, as can MR, but getting HP counters all types of damage, and that's the real main reason HP is a great investment early, like you said.

I guess my only problem with that statement is the effective health math doesn't add up the way people think it does in this game.

In regards to FoN/BV... I'd say when you have Warmogg's it's a no brainer.

BV is an Item I generally get in combo with Randuin's and Trinity

And FoN with Atma's/Warmogg's, I take FoN almost always, regardless of CC. With that much HP, more dmg reduction and just living through the CC's is generally preferable to blocking 1 CC anyway.

Perseverance is showing up as Garen's passive.

Might wanna look into that.

Hey guys, back again. 1 thing was bothering me, that i feel i should point out, as it could be subject to change.

So, by your logic, getting thornmail when you have 2k health, gives you an effective 4k health against AD carries (assuming they have 0 armor pen). This isnt quite true, because each % of resist gets smaller and smaller the more armor you have. So getting 6 thornmails at 2k health will not give you an effective 12k health, since it gives you around 87% physical dmg resist, it gives you more around 5500 effective health. So (like you said in your build) its much more cost effective to buy like 3 thornmails, 2 warmogs, and an atma's. since the mass amount of health your getting from warmogs is being run through the resist machine, lets say warmogs gives you an extra 2.6k health to your 2k, so now thats 4.6k health. Run through the resist machine (around 65-70% with 3 thornmails) it becomes something around 10k effective health. keep in mind, this does not apply into atma's, it still only gives you 4.6k health worth of AD. Just some clarification. If im wrong, please tell me how, and show me the math to prove it ^_^

OK thx everyone for the comments!!

So I got these 2 long comments about my effective health chapter.
Maybe I was a bit mistaken, I cannot answer now, Im gonna have to look into that, check what might be wrong. But thank you for poiting these stuff out!

I will however adress to more simple issues:

-"The only problem im having is that I feel you should get atma's before warmogs" (Cocamo1337) The problem is, that after all, you are an offtank. You need to be tanky. While the Atma's will give you better damage output (altough not that much, since you will not have a lot of HP), survivability is more important! Basically, on most offtanks, provides all the damage you need for mid game. Getting tanky, will prove to be much more effective in mid game teamfights.
Another simple reason is that Warmog's require farming to charge: 100 Creep kills, or 10 champs kills. thats **** tons of farming. Getting it early, will mean that you can charge it earlier. Also, if getting this more at mid game, You will still be farming top most of the times, and will be able to charge it fast. If you buy it later however, more towards late game, farming will become much slower.
I hope that answers that :)

"Perseverance is showing up as Garen's passive.

Might wanna look into that."(DuffTime) Will fix it. thx :)


"this guide has a great deal of information, but I'm afraid some of the builds are incorrect. I won't vote either way, because this is an incredible resource"(Mooninites)

AS i said, some of the champions here, I dont play that much. It's more than possible that I made some bad choices with the masteries, Skill sequence, or the build. I would like how ever that u will tell me what the problems with some of the guides are! I will happily receive constructive criticism, and tips about the builds! Just tell me what u think is wrong/can be better, and I will consider it!

"Another thing that I wholeheartedly disagree with... Not building lots of champs with HP because your enemy will buy Madred's. Who cares!? Build up that HP, so that they HAVE to buy Madred's. If they're all building Madred's, they're NOT building big crit damage items that will blow up your squishies. Let them try to counter you, no, FORCE them to try to counter you. If they waste their time doing that, you're giving the rest of your team, particularly your squishies, an advantage."(DuffTime)
This is an intersting way to look at it :) Im gonna have to think about it, but it makes great sense!


So again. thx for the comments and positive votes :)
I will look again into the whole Effective health chapter.

Thank you! i really appriciate you getting back to me so quickly! i definitely see your point! my only problem is that at the level your at (lets say like 14'ish) you have a solid 2k HP or so. its nowhere near as much as your gonna have late game, but thats still a solid 40 AD for 2335g! not to mention 45 armor and 18% crit rating! TBH, i think this irelia build is 1000's of times better than the #1 guide in a few ways. ill try to get your guide out there, it seariosly deserves it. i started playing irelia 1 day ago, and i still havent gone negative on her, ive also gotten dozens of doubles, 3 triple's, and a 2 v 5 quadra! Anyway, if you could get back to me on that cuonter thought on the atma's, i would really appriciate it ^_^

Thanks for making this i love playing off tanks and this helped alot :)