Build Guide by Mukilab

last time I viewed your guide you had Stark's fever and Force of nature as two very early items one after the other.

Also you advocate Madred's bloodrazor which is laughable. Just as a quick analysis

Vs. carry: By teamfights, a good carry will have at least one defensive or semi-defensive item, nearly any of which bumps up their MR to 50% redux. Your razor now only deals 2% damage, extremely expensive and useless passive. A madred's bloodrazor itself would take around 30 hits to kill (factoring early AD stats).

Vs. tank: It's not uncommon to get 75% MR redux on a tank. You now deal 1% max health per hit. No difference to them unless you've figured out how to glitch the 2.5 AS limit and made it go to 10.

No, its the 2% regen first tier mastery, and its complete **** on udyr.


Unless they have flash, ghost, a slow, a stun, a knock back, vlad pool, trist jump, ez flash, nid cougar pounce, shunpo, lots of champs have lots of ways to get away from you. Keep in mind that they just have to make it back to their tower, not beat you in a marathon.

It's not just weather you can catch up but how fast you can catch them to stun and if your team will still be in range to take advantage of the stun.

Keep in mind that im not arguing that bear is something that you should max or prioritize or anything, but an extra rank or 2 a bit earlier does make a bigger impact than your guide seems to imply.


No, phoenix is magic but the runes don't effect your damage on jungle monsters. If you don't trust me try it your self.

What that paragraph is saying is that you are better off leveling phoenix past 2 instead of starting to level tiger until your mana can support using both.



Add the 26 MR to the equation and all of the sudden it's not so cut and dry.
If you get off 2 turtle shields this extra MR is going to give you somewhere around 600-700 more EHP.

The spell block on banshees doesn't guarantee you won't be CCed. The better people you play the worse banshee's is since they will just fling some spell at you before they use their cc or big nuke.

Keep in mind I'm not saying one is better, I'm saying that you can't accuratly theory craft which one is better because there are too many variables.

You are wrong on this.
Most champs start with 30mr and get 0 per level. On the top end their passive MR tops out at 52.5. so the minimum they would need is a negatron to reach 100 MR.

Even if they do have 100 MR lets look at MBRs effect.
Lets look at a champ with 3000 HP
MBR will do 120 per hit + the 30 AD.
Using +85% AS (avg for tiger on use AS and rounding way down)
Over the course of 4 sec that it would take to get off all your stances:

1030 damage added,
This is not counting the damage the added AS gives to your phoenix 3rds or the Ad you already have
This is more damage than you get from your tiger and phoenix combined!

Everyone's damage is subject to resists.
By your logic you shouldn't get any damage item because your target will have resist.

MBR really is the best way to increase damage on this champ and does so by a large margin.
The 40% AS synergizes with both phoenix and it's own on hit.
Passive and tiger AS syngergize with the on hit.

Even taking resistances into consideration this is a serious increase in your damage. No, you wont be able to 3 shot someone, but you will do enough damage to them to make a much bigger impact, along with udyrs tankieness that allows him to say in the fight and dole out the hits.



It actually is pretty uncommon to see a tank running around with 300 MR. 300mr is pretty much the top end of resistances that tanks will get and even that will only happen if you have a terrible team composition with almost all AP damage.

Really, go look around at different guides, see if you can actually find one with a decent score where it tells you to build with 300 MR vs a balanced team.

to elaborate on why MPen wont help your jungling is this, all jungle mobs aside from dragon and baron, have a MR of 0. Magic PENETRATION CANNOT bring you past that level, only MR REDUCTION can put you into the negatives.

resistance bypass follows an order in which they apply

%Reduction
#Reduction
#Penetration
%Penetration

Following this, and the difference between reduction and penetration, MPen runes will NOT aid your jungling aside from killing Dragon and Baron, which by that point, it shouldn't matter.

I think that this build does not properly fulfill udyrs roll as an amazing dps.

The build is badly thought out and does not fulfil Udyr's role which imo is a dps.

I'll reply to this in reverse order, it's far easier. 300 MR vs a balanced team.. Rammus... Malphite... Galio... Rammus for obvious reasons, in my opinion, malphites should focus on MR, they already have an AR boost and galio for obvious reasons...

You will be doing significant damage without madred's razor. My point is that the increase you get in buying a madred's razor to supplement your damage is negligible. Who the hell hears of carries running around with 50 MR? The most common defence item that carries get is the banshee's veil, due to the amount of magic damage present on a SR game. 2011 says hi. The reign of hypercarry tristana is far over. Tanky dps is the new metagame, with me stacking 160 MR and AR on warwick/jax/jarvan/olaf/xin zhao by 30 minutes. Madred's is useless against the current meta.

Oh and your hypothetical situation is ridiculous. I have never seen an ashe run around with 3000hp. Do you play in 600 elo where it's still common to see people stacking ludicrous amounts of hp without realising the fine line between hp and ar/mr cost effectiveness.... Nobody gets 3000 hp with 100 MR... the only situation I know of is Rammus where he can spike from 150 to 300 in both stats... making it actually cost effective.

So you think that getting magic damage based on % HP vs high HP and high armor champs is a bad thing why? Because they get MR?
Yes they get plenty of MR but this doesn't change the fact that MBR is one of the best ways to get damage in on them.





Do you realize this?

A champ with just 50 MR and 3000 HP is going to have higher effective HP vs magic damage as Your 160MR Xin at max level with a with a giants belt.

Now factor in that HP is also going to effect your physical damage EHP while MR does not.

I don't think you understand the relationship between effective hp and MR/armor/HP.

To maximize EHP you want far far less resist in relation to HP than what you are saying is best or most common.

To stack 160 MR in 30 min is just not a good idea unless you have a massive HP pool, which you will not if you are spending that much gold on resists. What is your exact build, because as far as EHP is concerned I'm pretty confident that it's massively inefficient.


I think this must be why you are of the opinion that MBR is such a bad item. If you are under the impression that people are better off building super high resists and lower HP then this would explain why.

Look at the actual math for EHP and you'll see that if people build in the most efficient manor for EHP then MBR is a very good source of damage.

This guide has a lot of bad information and bad choices.
Where to start:

Mpen runes:
Terrible choice, You say its to help you jungle? well guess what, it doesn't effect jungle since jungle monsters have 0 mr already.

Flat MR runes:
You start out with decent MR (30) and will be in jungle taking no magic damage till at earliest level 4. Go mr/level taking flat MR makes no sense.

Harden skin:
Bad choice, harden skin is taken before armor reduction meaning in many cases depending on your level via the armor you gain per level this skill can actually do nothing. Take def mastery, it is taken after armor and always has an effect.

perseverance:
TERRIBLE, udyr has **** regen, **** + 4% of **** is still ****. This is deceptive but think about it, udyr doesn't use mp5 to regen he uses turtle.

"only use tortoise if you have enough mana to go straight back to phoenix. If not, then just keep on phoenix"
So don't take advantage of your passive timer or the leech from turtle? this is a huge waste of mana.

Theory craft:
Your whole chart ONLY is true if you are level 18 and have NO items with any HP/Armor/MR which will NEVER be the case even using your build.

The second you get a resist, the value of HP goes up, when you get HP the value of resists go up.

In short the whole chart means nothing since how much ehp an item gives is determined by the stats you have and those numbers are for base stats. I mean not that it would matter but why wouldn't you at least include your resist/hp from runes/mastery?

I do appreiciate the attempt at theory craft though, next time you might want to put in a note that says use CTRL scroll wheel so people can actually look at your work who don't know to do that.


Facepalm.... You have got to be kidding me. They give the same EHP so it doesn't matter which you get? Are you serious? You'll be glad they CC you?
So you are saying pay no attention to how much cc or physical vs magic damge they have, just get what ever you can afford? Do I even have to explain why this is a bad idea?

Counters:
Thornmail doesn't counter anything if you are tanking unless its a 1v1. No dps is going to focus you over anyone else on your team unless you are the last man standing, you don't put out enough damage to be a threat with just wriggles and will be ignored, especially if you have thornmail. This in effect will do the opposite of a taunt.

Guardian Angel: Again, how does this counter Yi? You say that the rest of your team will kill him as you rez but now you are assuming Yi used his ult and focused a tank down KNOWING he had a GA up instead of going after ANYONE else on your team. Does this sound like something that would actually happen to you?

Quicksliver Sash: Does NOT effect mordes ult.

Madreds blood razor:
While I do agree that it's not a counter to warmogs it's not bad like you claim
Even with your full build it's still 1.38% damage.
Lets say another udyr has JUST that for damage and has the speed from passive and tiger rank 5 and speed runes.
Factor in the AD and just the damage from auto attacking will bring you down in 20 sec, with out dodges and turtles.
20 sec may be a while but this is just 1 champ with 1 item, not counting any damage from his skills or any of the other 4 players on his team.
I'd challenge you to find another single item that results in this much damage against a tank but I already know there isn't one.

Force of nature:
Static HP/resists this item is not as good as Banshees but you have to look at regen. It takes only 15 sec of regen time for FoN to make up for the HP of BV. In general I'm sure you would agree that you can usually last 15 sec after being hit with this build. Anything past that in terms of regen and FoN actually is better in terms of EHP. Especially when you consider that it reduces magic damage by an addition 2.7% in your build over BV and factor in the "HP" from turtles.

There are alot of intangables so you can't really directly compare the 2 but to just say flat out that you should never get FON and that its a terrible item just isn't true.

Also you know you still have MBR suggested in your build right?