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General Guide by Hahano

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League of Legends Build Guide Author Hahano

Who is your jungler and what does he do?

Hahano Last updated on February 25, 2013
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Argionelite | February 17, 2014 2:48pm
Please add Elise and Zac, I've noticed that you are missing these 2.
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Willowran | November 25, 2013 3:03pm
Not bad not bad. Well written and detailed. Of late i have been taking elise through the jungle a lot, and i notice that you do not mention her at all. Any chance you might update this with new characters? I'm just curious as to your take on her.
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Lackawk | November 20, 2013 2:20am
Amazing guide, I appreciate the work you've done. +1

But I've got one thing in my mind right now; Where's Vi?
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BlackoutVZLA | November 10, 2013 12:25pm
I don't agree on Kha'Zix not being able to jungle. He's an amazing ganker even at lvl 6. I got a 17-0 match yesterday with him jungling. Great guide either way, very well explained and with so much information!
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Hawg the dwarf | November 6, 2013 7:16am
Great guide, thanks a lot !

But I think you're forgeting something about post-jungling Shaco : his amazing capacity to splitpush.

With Static shiv and/or Hydra (take both of them and... God, you will be farming inhibitors like jungle creeps), Shaco can clear a whole lane and take the first turret in less than 30 sec; add some seconds more and the second turret falls. Best of all : with such a push, the ennemi team will, most of the time, send someone to stop him; Shaco beeing what he is in 1Vs1 (a monster most of the time), it's a free kill for you, a balanced teamfight for your team and maybe another abjective taken. In the worst case scenario (the ennemi kills you), you should have taken at least one objective so... It's still pretty good.
If the ennemi team sends 2 champs to stop you (most a the time a carry and a bruiser/tank), then it's 3vs4 for the team fight without tank for the ennemi, clearly good for your teamates.
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Songetzu | October 15, 2013 9:21pm
Why does no one list Yi as a Jungler?
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PW97 (1) | October 12, 2013 4:02am
Very good guide, though I totally agree with the people who say that your opinion about Evelynn isn't right. You say her passive is useless, while I think it's one of the best ones in the game. Further on, she has crazy burst potential you can gank with her really quickly, which leads a great amount of my matches to a first blood. I also read a very good Evelynn build guide yesterday (Evelynn - Jungle: Dance The Blood Red Tango (S3, AP/AD/Hyb.), by Opeth), which showed runes that are able to increase her sustain greatly, namely Greater Quintessences of Spell Vamp and Greater Glyphs of Cooldown Reduction. So that partially takes away one of her greatest Cons too.
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Satella (177) | September 17, 2013 9:21am
The guide is extremely outdated; Evelynn is very good in the current meta due to the camp changes, and the guide author has been MIA for a year. If you want accurate, up-to-date jungle scores, spectate high elo solo queue or watch tournament play (Worlds is happening now).
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pap217 | September 17, 2013 9:18am
This guide is awesome, but I can't agree with you about Evelynn. You gave her very low score, but general she is one of the strongest early game junglers cause of her passive. 0 top players buy at the start a pink ward, so top is welcoming eve with a free first blood. If you synergize well with your mid, you will tell him to let the enemy push and when you are somewhere around 4 lvl, it is 100% burned flash and about 50% secured kill. in the late game she isn't so strong, but well placed ulti can give her 1000+ shield, slowing hell much enemies and if you are a little lucky you can get even a close to the enemy carry and make him bleed. But you are right, that if someone counterjungle eve before her first enter shop, she is very easy kill. So, generally, she isn't the best jungler in the whole game, but I'm quite sure that well played Eve is a pain in a*s.
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JAYZ303 | August 29, 2013 2:01pm
Great guide, it really helps you pick the right jungler for you but how come you left Elise out?
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Cathaidan | August 26, 2013 9:03am
I would like to see this updated. A lot of the items you recommend have had some changes and nerfs applied to them. Other items don't even exist in the game anymore. I'm interested in seeing what you'd swap those items with and your new suggestions.
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tiltospe | August 22, 2013 12:53am
Could you please update this guide for having Yi and Nasus? Since Yi got his nurf he can't be played ap and I have destroyed in the jungle with Yi because he snowballs out of control. As for Nasus, cloud 9 meteos jungles Nasus a lot and meteos set a record for highest kda and first in the double digits in the 2013 na summer split. Other than that, this is a great guide and I agree with you on Udyr being the best jungler... aside from Yi. However Udyr is a much more stable jungler.
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Jessterr | July 28, 2013 6:20pm
Anyway. This guide is HUGE. What an incredible undertaking. It took a while but I learned quite a lot. I mainly jungle as Udyr and Warwick but I can't wait to give Nocturne a try after reading this.

Regarding Master Yi: I agree that he currently doesn't belong in the jungle at all. Even if he is has amazing clear speeds, counter-jungle, and snowballing potential his downfall is how easy he is to counter with CC. I was wondering if you could take the time to play the new AD-based Master Yi after he is released. You would NEED something with Tenacity (and early) most games but I think he may have some potential again. We'll see though.

You're missing a single "[" bracket for Lee Sin under the 1200-1600 ELO, The Midrange: section at the top of the guide.
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Andrescarmona | June 30, 2013 11:48am
You forgot the joke on the "Rammus is ok at farming"
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predatorvmt | June 2, 2013 7:40am
Lack of pro guide section!
Instant down-vote!!!!
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S1ngl3 | May 15, 2013 1:30pm
Can you pls add Vi ?
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snowflaxe (27) | April 22, 2013 2:52pm
Everytime someone is complaining about the jungler, i will link them this ^^.

+1
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MaliciousMoron | April 21, 2013 12:15am
Great guide! Helped me find a lot of viable junglers. I would like to say, though, you need to update the junglers, not just update the S2 junglers status and viability in the S3 jungle.
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Whyudievoid (3) | April 14, 2013 6:49pm
Still a great guide for jungling and you worded it perfectly for even a first time jungler to know what you're talking about.
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xygroan | April 11, 2013 2:49am
jungle yorick??? i'll help you away with this one :

clear time 3:40
sustain 10 !! without pots you still come out the jungle with 4/5 hp
counter jungling.. not that great
ganking hmm a 7 probably
late game amazing ( 2 adc's if you place your ult on him )




upvote!

edit :
i belive u dont really know about the junglers : Maokai, yoric, nautilus, nasus

yorick , nasus not in the guide

nautilus you are wrong about his time cuz his clear time is REALLY fast u never saw a good nautilus??
and maokai? lategame sucks? LOL? i love my lategame maokai i 1 vs 1 most apc's or top laners with my small jungle farm, his clear times are amazing, his ganks are deadly.. please dont just tell us your times and your speed watch someone wich mastered the champ and then make your guide... now people will think that my favorite junglers maokai, yorick and nautilus are really bad in the jungle.. sorry but no. you were quite right about trundle but this really made me sad :( if i gotta believe you id say Maokai, nautilus RIP never go to the jungle again... i'll keep playing them and when u meet me i'll show you

nautilus clear speed : HIGH
nautilus doesnt need allot of farm to be scary, just some utility will do

maokai clear speed : very high
if you get a first blue you will be allright overal
late game ? : just GREAT
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GentlemanIota | April 8, 2013 6:52pm
Excellent guide, helped me choose my favorite junglier. J4 all day, Zed all night.
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Unawesomeness (3) | March 24, 2013 7:54pm
add Zed
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Starki113r (10) | March 24, 2013 2:29pm
This guide was useful early in Season 3, however, it desperately needs to be updated. A lot of people come to this Guide for advice when just starting out jungling, and they need a reliable source. This just isn't it anymore, considering the many nerfs and buffs. Please, give the guide a little attention or it'll quickly become Stale and fall out of favor, high rating or not.

For that reason, I had to change my very early vote to a -1. Until it's updated, I just can't personally endorse this guide as effective to players new to the role. I'm sorry.
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Minosaurus | March 16, 2013 4:43pm
Nice guide, but i think jax is much better in ganking, cause he can just Jump at the Target stun him (Maybe Not that Long, but stun is stun) and with red buff the enemies just cant Run away -> easy kill. I think bis gank Potential is as as Good as Pantheon's if Not better.
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Bioalchemist (155) | March 15, 2013 10:59am
NicknameMy wrote:

This guide is on the stand of season 2 in december. The author just refreshed it while editing nothing. This makes the quality of the guide very questionable.




pretty much just re-posting this.
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Jayz7 | March 14, 2013 9:17pm
Nice guide =). It helps me a lots. btw would u think nasus great on jungle too?
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Scrish | March 11, 2013 6:01am
Very nice guide :D thx alot it helps me much.
But what do you think about katarina in jungle?? I think it could be good too.
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NicknameMy (153) | March 6, 2013 8:43am

This guide is on the stand of season 2 in december. The author just refreshed it while editing nothing. This makes the quality of the guide very questionable.

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stonsamu (1) | March 2, 2013 5:22pm
This guide helped me tremendously in learning the ropes of jungling, and followed me through my evolution. Not only have I learned about the junglers that I chose to play, but also the opposition I would face. I loved having a good idea of who I could invade and who I should stay away from. Very very helpful, many thanks
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Archibal | March 2, 2013 2:25pm
As some of us stated for Eve, Eve AD is farm more effective in the jungle than Eve AP. Please take this into account when you'l update your guide !!!
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Pdog | February 25, 2013 5:28pm
excellent guide, really got me into jungle !
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Pdog | February 25, 2013 5:28pm
excellent guide, really got me into jungle !
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SeNzZzR | February 25, 2013 4:51am
Can you update for season 3? And you need to add some junglers, Kha'Zix, Vi, Alistar
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Big Lupu | February 20, 2013 2:42pm
Add Elise, Zed and Vi plz
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oneAlien (1) | February 13, 2013 2:31am
udyr udyr udyr power !
my new meta ty
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Nielskeuh89 | February 6, 2013 10:49am
Nice job but.. What is wrong with eve? o.O
My ad eve:
jungle speed 9
jungle sustain 3
ganking 8
control 5
late game 3

jezus u give her 10 points :s
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lolfall | February 5, 2013 5:18pm
thx for guide, ill use it
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Boomey | February 4, 2013 9:15pm
God haven't even read it yet but the title cracked me the f*ck up :)
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MasterXisFame | January 31, 2013 8:08am
Great guide, nice work :)
But I have still 1 Question : What do you think about jungle Elise / can you create a Elise section ?
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NicknameMy (153) | January 26, 2013 6:03am
This guide gets very outdated lately.
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Anubis392 | January 15, 2013 7:38am
include Vi
it's new at jungle, but i found that it has fast clear time, good sustain and effective ganks
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D3athSt4r | January 14, 2013 10:23am
Try to consider Wukong like a jungler. That's my playstyle and he is so good !
http://i45.tinypic.com/6xzwgj.jpg
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Stereopsis | January 13, 2013 6:49am
Not sure how you can say Trundle snowballs and WW doesn't. WW's lategame is very potent so he actually does snowball.
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sjomleh sjoml | January 11, 2013 12:44pm
Are you going to put Elise on your list?
Anyway great guide love it.
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Kelen_sai | January 10, 2013 9:16pm
forgot to upvote ^_^ +1
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Kelen_sai | January 10, 2013 9:15pm
It is very informative esp. for me who is a jungler in our team.. i hope you can make an udyr guide because i like that guy ^_^
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Sandoxio (9) | January 10, 2013 11:10am
I saw this guide and made a decision: Buying rengar next 1st win bonus. I kinda wanted him instead of Kha'Zix because he is a badass hunting tiger. But after all the nerfs... Still avialable?
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Lbrand (1) | January 7, 2013 6:45am
like mentioned earlier by someone else Elise SHOULD be taken in this guide, she can gank pretty well if u land her skill shot. Also some possibilities to jungle without smite with Elise
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NicknameMy (153) | January 6, 2013 9:26am
Why you actually say AD Sion has weak earlygame damage? Enrage gives him a high amount of damage if maxed first. AD Sions earlygame ganks are great because of super cc and high damage. Aswell, if you have red buff, if the enemy doesn't use Flash or an escape, he will die for sure.

Aswell, did you try out Sion jungle with AS marks, AS seals, AS glyphs and AS quints? This sounds crazy, yes, but leads to a very fast cleartime of around 3:40. Now you think that is sustain must be awful, but no. His passive, Feel No Pain, and his W, Death's Caress block a high amount of damage which hits him. While he actually has negative sustain, this blocked damage gives you enough resistance to easily jungle without the need for armor runes.

It also is the best role Sion could actually fit in, I would say. There is nothing different he is good at.
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CastleCrashr (1) | January 3, 2013 9:08pm
I'm about to start learning jungling myself but not too sure who to go with. Is there a champ that's good for getting a feel for that role? Best guide ever btw! +1...,000,000,000
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dontbother902 (1) | January 3, 2013 1:45am
u should really put zed
hes fast in the jungle
his ganks are meh but he deals tons of dmg so its ok
and late game he destroys anybody with his ult
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Hahano (73) | January 2, 2013 5:50am
@NicknameMy: Evelynn is very close to being removed. I may just remove her because I feel she's just like Kha'Zix at the moment and he has been removed. They are both snowball assassins that do extremely well with kills and itemization. Considering her low scores, she won't be missed. It's a good point and catch, thank you.

@RedFear: Vi and Zed will be added. Vi is insanely fun and I had an absolute blast playing her. I'll be trying out Zed this week.
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RedFear | December 31, 2012 4:49am
Can you add Vi and Zed please ?
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JayceFan (1) | December 31, 2012 2:38am
Good Job bro ! you thought of everything :)
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OTGBionicArm (411) | December 29, 2012 3:56pm
Probably because Evelynn is atleast still a decent jungler, sort of. Master Yi never really was.
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NicknameMy (153) | December 29, 2012 3:52pm
Why you removed Master Yi if you still have Evelynn in this?
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UC_Omega (2) | December 21, 2012 1:41pm
+1

Very useful, and a great at-a-glance resource

two quick things i'm sure you already know that should be edited:

1. Under rengar, his roar only heals 10% instead of 15% due to the recent patch
2. In the beginning when you're talking about the best and worst of each category, it says Rammus is weak late-game although that seems to be contradictory to what you said under the Rammus section.
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Omegapudding | December 21, 2012 11:14am
Very thorough, great guide. I've seen possibilities of an Elise jungle, but she's not mentioned at all throughout here. I do also disagree with the Maokai assessment, but I play with a group a friends and don't solo queue much, otherwise very informative guide, thank you for taking the time to do it.
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Lbrand (1) | December 21, 2012 6:49am
Great Guide! I really enjoyd reading your guide ^^.

You said in general that jungling has become harder where the monsters have become stronger in the jungle. With Hunters machete however it's easy dealing more damage in the jungle. My experience is that if I play a tanky jungler like Amumu or Rammus it became easier then in S2, with more squichy junglers like evelyn it rly had became harder.

Also rammus is said to be a slow jungler if you use your powerball not only for attack, but also for transportation jungling goes a lot faster. (up to 640 movement at low lv's).
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Nick67 | December 18, 2012 7:55am
Very long, but very good guide!
But are you sure, diana is not a very strong ganker? :D IMO she has amazing ganks, with her q-r-e-w combo, ur get a lot of damage and your slowed too
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Ravenholm (46) | December 16, 2012 4:57pm
Lulu is a notable fringe jungler. Her ganks are incredible and her jungle protection rivals other junglers. She is a slow start but very strong after her first back. It saddens me to see you listing Hiemer and MF but not Lulu... both of which are inferior to her in the jungle
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Extise (2) | December 15, 2012 12:17pm
Man great job, this in-depth guide is close to perfect , this sure took you a long time , and it deserved to be on the top!
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NicknameMy (153) | December 15, 2012 3:00am
Master Yi got now a huge buff to his junging, which makes him way faster.
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TheEmporor | December 14, 2012 12:52am
Also is Rengar still really that good? I mean he has been nerfed prety hard TWICE now...
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TheEmporor | December 14, 2012 12:51am
Yo Hahano what are your thoughts on zed jungle?

~TheEmperor
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Meiyjhe (523) | December 11, 2012 10:04am
Almost 100%, you deserve it :D
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IceAngels (1) | December 7, 2012 6:30pm
This Is Beautifully Done. Makes Me Want To Try Jungling.
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Hahano (73) | December 7, 2012 6:37am
@flawlesspavement: It will be changing. I want to get some major stuff done this weekend.
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flawlesspavement | December 6, 2012 7:43pm
Great guide, my favorite on the site, I use it to check out enemy junglers flaws pre-game as well as to pick a jungler for a given situation. When will you be updating it for season 3 though (I understand this might take a while because you'd have to retry many if not all of the junglers)? quite a bit has changed
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Hahano (73) | December 1, 2012 6:13pm
I have indeed jungled with him. I thought the same deal that a heal/stun/shred on command would be legit. Then it fell flat on its face :(
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Basinator (5) | December 1, 2012 3:03pm
If Lee Sin misses his Q the gank might have already failed. I can see your point, but Taric also amplifies the damage of allieds. I PERSONALLY just made extremly good experiences with him as a jungler/ganker. Hence, I think he performs this role so much better than someone like....let's say Tryndamere or Yi. I tend to say Taric is totally viable in 1.2k-1.4k ELO at least. And IMHO this is enough reason to include him.

May I ask - Did you ever jungle with him or is this all theoryzing from you side?
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Hahano (73) | November 30, 2012 12:52pm
@Basinator: When I say "Burst damage" I don't mean they're LeBlanc. As a jungler with no soft CC, you have a window where you can land 1-3 auto attacks, depending on how far up they are. Against an opponent that isn't playing foolishly, that number often drops to 0-1. Tanky or AP junglers that take GP10 items first aren't always good at bursting - but you don't play them to do that. Maokai is a GP10 jungler with great base values, even without landing a single auto-attack. Nautilus, Rammus and Alistar do a fair amount of initial damage, but have so much CC that it doens't matter. Taric can walk into a lane, stun someone and then maybe land an auto-attack if your laner also has CC or they're so far up they're considered on your team. He'll also do ok chaining CC together, but most champions do and Taric isn't even that great in this scenario.

So for a more exact breakdown...Taric has a stun that has 625 range and does 80 damage rank 1 at that range. It lasts for 1.5 seconds and you start with 315 base move speed. So in that 1.5 seconds you can BARELY close the gap for a single auto-attack. So you get the auto in and cancel into your shatter, which will do 60 damage and reduce their armor by 10. So let's say you get the 80 + ~65 + 60 which is 205 damage and they'll flash away. The more likely scenario is they flash your stun projectile or shatter attempt, but let's say best case level 2 gank here. Lee Sin comes in and misses his Q, then hits an E and lands two auto-attacks because of the slow. That's 60 + ~65 + ~65 = 190 damage in the case they flashed his Q away and also NOT including any AD runes that all Lee Sins start. So you get ~15 more damage out of it when Lee misses his Q ENTIRELY and is running NO DAMAGE (not factoring in resists, etc, might be more due to magic damage or their item starts).

So to compare Taric to Lee is not the best of ideas. Amumu's skillshot dodge is critical in the early levels, but once he hits 6 he'll just ult and it doesn't matter. The real issue is that he does no damage and offers no sustained CC or damage. He just offers a stun, mild burst and a heal. Can this help your lane? Absolutely. But in a situation where a single target hard CC might be of great use, why not play Warwick, Udyr or a plethora of characters with multiple CCs? He can gank people and he can jungle, but he's not good at either. A 1.5 second stun on a 14 second cooldown with less damage the closer you get is just bad for ganking. There will be situations where it will be ridiculous, but those situations could be accomplished with a support taric walking up the river and combining himself with an actual jungler.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, but unless Taric sees some significant increases in damage, base stats, cooldowns, ratios or clearing speed, he won't see this list. If you enjoy playing him, do so. It's a game, you're supposed to enjoy it. I'm, however, trying to put a list of junglers that are at least competitive picks to give an input to those who like to jungle and want more options. I'm not trying to put together a list of characters that some folks happen to like and stick in different situations.

I'm not a Taric hater, he just needs work to be a jungler, and that's work he likely won't get because of his role in bottom lane. If they do anything to him there, he'll become really strong and then his jungle is irrelevant. If he gets a rework or something, I'll play him...until then enjoy your games with him!
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Basinator (5) | November 29, 2012 7:58pm
For the jungle speed it helps a lot if you are running 25% AS in marks and quints. With many junglers stacking GP10, I don't see why burst in terms of scaling with items is such an issue. Really, most AP jungler take GP10 first, so they don't see an increasement for her burst either for a while.

I was a bit unspecific with my build, acutally if it doesn't work out good in one match you are going more the defenseive/tanky/support items route.

I personally find Taric an extremly strong ganker because of one thing. His CC can't miss. A Sin can forget about ganking if his Q missed, such as Amumu can. Hell, I am not even ganking from the side but rather from behind so the enemies are very often getten cut off and are in the range of my stun by this. They can't hide behind minions. They can't avoid the "skillshot" either. If I see a Mumu or Sin ganking I might be able to dodge his skillshot and survive the gank this way. This isn't true for Taric.

Actually, there is one additional thing to note. With his CC, which is very likely to hit, it is EXTREMLY easy to set off other skillshots, which might even consider additional CC.

If I think over it, I think he is one of the best midlane-ganker I played. Some of mine are: Naut, Shen, Amu, Jax (meh), FS in the very old days....

Actually, I am thinking that in S3 he might be one of the junglers still able to perform lv2 ganks (bonus armor, sustain), however this is said without having played the new jungler at the PBE.
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Hahano (73) | November 29, 2012 1:14pm
@Hecarim: My next version of this will include more detailed descriptions in the "fringe" jungler list. This can help those who feel X champion should be on the list while not making my list and play time required infinite.

@Ravenholm: Big plans for the big patch. Make sure to tune back in.

@Basinator: TF AD anything is a bit much for a jungler right now. Perhaps the new season and items will bring a new gem for Taric to jungle with, but for now that's too expensive. He also doesn't have sick burst building AD (even with Sheen proc) because his burst is 100% AP based. The "one hit and done" applies to lanes that are already winning heavily, at which time Soraka can gank effectively. Sure it helps, but it's no better than Sion's really and his isn't that great either. Single targetted hard CC with a high cooldown isn't ideal for ganks. That in conjunction with soft CC from a laner or red buff or other abilities is strong, so someone like Alistar with two hard CC's or Blitz with two is great. Taric with one is meh. long story short, he's too slow because he doesn't do damage (because he's designed as a support)

As for Shen, his spammable Q plus a life-scaling passive help his speeds. He's by no means fast, but Taric's painfully slow. I think you'll have to look into his base stats and cooldowns to see that he's a lackluster damage dealer. Note I don't say that he can't do damage or won't. His damage is just meh and his CC is just meh later game so he's just meh in a situation requiring high damage and good CC.

I will be doing a formal write-up for the fringe folks and rethinking who's on the list come next season.
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Basinator (5) | November 28, 2012 5:09pm
Include Taric pls. He is an way underrated jungler, imho. He is slow, but his clear time speeds up once you get Wit's End or Wriggle's.

Really. You say he is slow. I can understand this. But you included Shen. What makes Shen THAT much faster in the jungle. He got his passive, but it isn't that much bonus damage constantly and/or early on. Spammable Q, single target damage.

Taric: AOE damage with rather long CD.

My item route for him atm is boots -> Philo -> HoG -> lv2 boots -> Wit's End (or before boots) -> Phage -> TF. Rest is situational, like FH, Nashor's or MR (hexdrinker/MoM).

Though; I am not sure about getting Wriggle's: For or after GP10? Should I get Wit's End before them? Is LS that good on bruiser taric? Is it too late to get Wriggle's after GP10, either?
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hecarim (1) | November 28, 2012 12:09pm
Basinator if u gank against nocturne he can dodge it :)
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Basinator (5) | November 27, 2012 2:47am
Taric jungle is awesome. A bit slow in the start, but doesn't this count for some tanks like Naut & Rammus too?

After the first clear it also depends on your build. ATM I am going TF AD Bruiser Taric, but rushing a Wit's End might be helpful too.

Sick ganks, quite some burst damage. Easy to get kills with. I think one of the most awesome things in his ganks is the stun - It is no skillshot, once you hit, they are done for. No dodging, you bastards!
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Ravenholm (46) | November 24, 2012 5:35am
i like this guide. i hope you are working on an update with the new jungle as it changes quite a bit of things...
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hecarim (1) | November 22, 2012 6:21am
really nice quide but i am just wondering where is irelia?!
You should really take her in to becuase i think she is awesome in the jungle but i want you to write about her too :D
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Hahano (73) | November 20, 2012 12:03pm
@All: Thanks for the kind words. And yes, this will be a bear to rewrite. It will be rewritten with new characters added, and I aim to do it as quickly as possible. I am going to try to take a new approach with the videos and upload them faster. I really hope this patch drops over Thanksgiving break, that would give me a solid chunk of time to work on it. Otherwise, it will be done when the patch hits.
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Le Pro of d00m (24) | November 18, 2012 7:14pm
IS SWEET! the new jungle changes are going to make this guide a pain to rewrite .-.
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DarkAkumaLord (61) | November 18, 2012 1:22pm
Elise and Zed must be added, but I won't rush you.
Btw Powerball + Puncturing Taunt + Defensive Ball Curl + Tremors = death for you.
And his passive OH MAN ;) Spiked Shell
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F3ar0ner (22) | November 17, 2012 6:43pm
Wow, very nice guide! It definitely deserves an upvote.
Btw, they are going to do some massive changes in the jungle, I think your guide is going to need a rework.
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TheEmporor | November 13, 2012 11:49pm
@Hahano: You know that Rengar got nerfed right? why didint you change his score yet, is he realy that good still?
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Dabke | November 11, 2012 7:05am
+1
Insanely useful guide, any time I want to try out a new jungler I refer to this.
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Waterbottle (1) | November 10, 2012 8:55pm
how about elise jungle? i need some tips. and btw how is irelia in the jungle#?
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sas22sas (3) | November 9, 2012 2:53pm
that is a great guide for the 200 build i have seen i can say that this is actually brilliant and i have only one korrektion if u will even hear me , i think that master Yi's speed should be 8 and the sustain must be 2 instead of 3

+1 from me, i hope u get 100% from the votes some day
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Douchy | November 8, 2012 4:18pm
Just wanna say great guide!! I made an account just to upvote it :). Also I wanted to ask your opinion on jungle Galio, I've tried it a few times with high success, his ganks are really strong passed level 6, but before that they're still decent if you can land your Q. He also has great sustain once he gets his shield. He's got good clear times as well but might be better in lane. Anyways just wanted to know your opinion :). Great guide again.
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Hahano (73) | November 7, 2012 10:14am
@Blinder: NicknameMy summed it up. She has low sustain in the early levels, which causes her to get blown up if they even think about invading. This isn't a problem in lane because she can shunpo away from ganks. She also must snowball and the jungle is the worst play to try and do that right now. You don't get enough farm to fall back on anything and your income is 100% reliant on ganks or invasion, both of which she can't do well.

@NicknameMy: I provided a long answer to a PM about Sion. I will include this in the description for him.

@Suotana: I have played Elise and will be adding her, yes. She's not a great jungler, but I'll add her because she's still better than some of the others on the list.

@NicknameMy: Thanks for the replies :D

@DeadSight: Thanks for the upvote and HELL YEA METAL, METAL IS THE BEST

@ysrael_814: Thanks for the kind words

@donutsaredelightful: Thanks for putting in the time to comment <3
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donutsaredelightful (3) | November 6, 2012 6:20am
This is a really nice resource to all the jungler out there. Thank you for putting in the time to do this.
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ysrael_814 | November 3, 2012 12:46am
wow i'm gonna master them all XD
nice guides..GUIDES lol.
what's interesting is every champ has video. :)
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DeadSight | October 31, 2012 9:45am
Up vote for an incredibly useful guide in so many ways, plus the Kayle video has mudvayne in it.
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NicknameMy (153) | October 31, 2012 9:15am
@blinder

She only gets fast after the 3. to 4. clear, has no cc for ganks and an awful sustain. Why the hell play her jungle if you can play her mid?
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Suotana | October 29, 2012 9:53am
Are you going to update Elise into this guide?
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NicknameMy (153) | October 29, 2012 6:31am
I think you don't give ad Sion the value that he actually deserves. He is basically a Tryndamere which can gank at lvl 2 with a stun. While his 1. and maybe also 2. clear is ****, after a while, his shield protects him from most damage the creeps deal and he will speed up as soon as you have Zeal. And with your ult you can towerdive all day long. And finally, lategame, he can wreck some ****, like Tryndamere.
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blinder002 | October 28, 2012 2:26am
Awsome guide it really learned me how to play jungle. But...

I tried katarina jungle and i went amazing, at least early game but I went off late game cause our team was too squishy and their too tanky.

She has solid clear time and a spammable AOE (Sinister steel) and even better she is manaless so she doesnt need blue much.

She can gank and destroy with Shunpo and Sinister Steel for Movement Speed. She has low sustain, maybe but after hextech she is much better. I would like to hear your opinion on Katarina.
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OTGBionicArm (411) | October 26, 2012 5:34pm
I've been playing her as a jungler, you'll like to know shes very sustained (for a mage) and quick. Pretty versitile paths, builds and gank options.
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Hahano (73) | October 26, 2012 4:25pm
@BionicArm: I might wait until Season 3 changes. I might not. I have almost enough for Elise so I will be trying her out as soon as I get bored of Headless Hecarim!
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OTGBionicArm (411) | October 26, 2012 11:15am
Hahano will you be adding the new champion, Elise soon? :3

Edit: And Kha'Zix
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Hahano (73) | October 26, 2012 11:09am
@DenBlaako: Hecarim is totally in here.

@NicknameMy: Yea, it changed entirely for Season 2 as well (this guide was up before the jungle changes). I want to be a lot faster on it this time to get some quality stuff out to you guys.
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DenBlaaKo | October 24, 2012 4:01am
This thread might need a total revamp.. :P and include hecarim also!!
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NicknameMy (153) | October 23, 2012 8:14am
Riot games:

Fine, what a great guide. Lets change the jungle totally so everything gets blown up.
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LolLegend | October 21, 2012 12:49pm
Very nice guide..Good job!
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Duece8282 | October 20, 2012 10:55am
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Lemosta | October 18, 2012 4:47pm
This guide just saved my life!
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Andy2139 | October 15, 2012 1:56pm
@ReprobateReality & Hahano: Thanks for your help guys, it helped a lot :D
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Hahano (73) | October 15, 2012 10:23am
@Andy2139 & ReprobateReality: You've captured most of it there. I also list the description and examples of it in the "Evaluation Points" section. The term comes from the analog of an actual snowball. You can pack a snowball with your hands and then push it through the snow. The more you push it, the larger it will get, so think of each character as a snowball. The "snowballing" champions start off on the edge of a huge hill where a slight push makes them fly down the hill, rapidly gaining size and becoming uncontrollable. "Kind of snowballing" champions are like those on level ground, with continuous effort they will continue to get bigger. "Non-snowballing" champions are at the base of the hill where it takes a lot of effort to get them bigger and they won't really ever be over the top.
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ReprobateReality (12) | October 15, 2012 3:05am
Andy2139 wrote:

Ok, I might sound like a noob, but what is snowballing?


Snowballing is capitalizing on your lead to get even further. For example, if you scored an ace on the enemy team, you can "snowball," or capitalize on the deaths of the entire enemy team by destroying their undefended towers. This not only gives you gold, but map awareness as well, which is great as you have more items and vision than your opponents.
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Andy2139 | October 15, 2012 2:46am
Ok, I might sound like a noob, but what is snowballing?
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Hahano (73) | October 12, 2012 8:25am
@TheEmporor: I would go something like this:
  • If ahead/fed early: Philo > NL Rod/Blasting Wand (depending on feed) > Boots 2 > RoA > Deathcap > Rylai > Void Staff
  • If it's a normal game: Philo > Chalice > Boots 2 > RoA > Athene's > Deathcap > Rylai > V-staff
  • If you're behind: Philo > HoG > Chalice > Boots 2 > Athene's > Rylai > Deathcap

I think if you're behind and get a slow RoA it isn't as valuable. Athene's doesn't have to be built if you're getting rich from ganks, and should be built to let your jungle clear get really ahead. The early NL Rod/Blasting Wand if you're ahead will make your level 6 gank really strong, but you will still want to build some meat before Deathcap. That's just my call on it, not sure if I'd build them myself...but given that item pool that's how I'd see it.

As a note, I build almost everyone as a tanky DPS supportish with items like Wriggle's, HoG and Philo. They're just good items, haha.
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TheEmporor | October 11, 2012 1:54pm
Hahano wrote:

@TheEmporor: Any build involving Deathcap on a jungler is typically a danger zone. Items like Deathcap, Trinity Force and Infinity Edge are amazing additions to characters with proper farm and levels. Junglers are grovelling for levels and farm as is, so those items tend to be lackluster. Think about the impact a deathcap has at 25 or 30 minutes when you can reliably get it and have little to no other AP items. I think it's a fine 4-5 item to work towards on AP junglers such as Nunu or Fizz, but I would avoid it otherwise. The Athene's is a very solid item and I would try building it on Sejuani for sure. Rylai is a little expensive, but has great components. RoA is a fine item as well, but the pieces suck for junglers. Overall I think your build doesn't offer enough utility and tries to shoot for a tanky-AP build. This is fine, but remember that you won't have enough gold to justify that unless you're fed. Also keep in mind that items such as Glacial Shroud and Shurelyia's offer some much needed CDR for the boarlady.

If I were to fix Sejuani I would do a couple things, and keep in mind I'm no game balancer:
  • I would change her passive to give a 10% slow AND a 10-20% attack speed slow. This means frosted enemies would deal less damage to her in the jungle (increasing sustain) and it would make her early teamfight presence much stronger outside of her ultimate. It also makes sense that cold/frosted enemies attack slower.
  • I would change her Q to no longer apply frost on hit because that doesn't make sense to me. How does a boar smashing into you apply frost? I would instead give it an effect similar to Hecarim's charge where it will knock you backwards slightly. This gives her a hard CC disrupt that isn't broken, takes great positioning and can help her out.
  • I would have her W apply Frost to all targets affected. If you're summoning a Blizzard around your character, there's no way people aren't frozen. I would remove the lower bound damage and just make the "enemies frosted" value the real value (it's still lower than Syvana's by a landslide). The duration would likely have to be reduced to 3 or 4 seconds (or scales with level) as a 5 second slow effect on top of a 3 second permafrost might be too strong and the radius would have to be slightly reduced as well.
  • Her E is really good as is. The cooldown is high enough that you can't really abuse the slow effect with the new frost targets on the change to W.
  • Her ultimate is perfect. I think altering that would make her too strong.

These changes would allow her to remain a nuisance tank that gets into things and slow/disrupts the enemies. It will also give her more viability outside of her ultimate, jungling sustainability, utility to a team and make a ton more sense in translating real life to the game.

@DeathandDecay: Thanks for the kind words!


Hmmmm, I see... so it seems that Sejuani is more of a laner then. But that is fine with me. OH! and By the way, awesome guide dude! I'm SOOO sorry I didn't say that before! :)

I would buff Sejuani by...

Passive: Add "for every 1% slow she applies she also applies .5% attack speed, and .25% damage and .20% ability damage debuff" ( I know you said something similar but this is my specific version).

Q: I would reduce the cooldown to 12/11.5/11/10.5/10, and increase the AP ratio to 50% and add a 5% health ratio.

W: I would keep it the same, but make it an 7 manna per second toggle.

E: I would add a 5% health ratio, and put the cooldowns at 12/11.5/10.5/10.

R: I would put the cooldowns to 145/135/100 and add a 8% health ratio.

And I would remove her from the "Tank" category and put her in the "Fighter" category.

And if I shouldn't rush deathcap, in what order should I build my personal Sejuani items?

Again great guide!
~TheEmperor
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Hahano (73) | October 11, 2012 7:02am
@TheEmporor: Any build involving Deathcap on a jungler is typically a danger zone. Items like Deathcap, Trinity Force and Infinity Edge are amazing additions to characters with proper farm and levels. Junglers are grovelling for levels and farm as is, so those items tend to be lackluster. Think about the impact a deathcap has at 25 or 30 minutes when you can reliably get it and have little to no other AP items. I think it's a fine 4-5 item to work towards on AP junglers such as Nunu or Fizz, but I would avoid it otherwise. The Athene's is a very solid item and I would try building it on Sejuani for sure. Rylai is a little expensive, but has great components. RoA is a fine item as well, but the pieces suck for junglers. Overall I think your build doesn't offer enough utility and tries to shoot for a tanky-AP build. This is fine, but remember that you won't have enough gold to justify that unless you're fed. Also keep in mind that items such as Glacial Shroud and Shurelyia's offer some much needed CDR for the boarlady.

If I were to fix Sejuani I would do a couple things, and keep in mind I'm no game balancer:
  • I would change her passive to give a 10% slow AND a 10-20% attack speed slow. This means frosted enemies would deal less damage to her in the jungle (increasing sustain) and it would make her early teamfight presence much stronger outside of her ultimate. It also makes sense that cold/frosted enemies attack slower.
  • I would change her Q to no longer apply frost on hit because that doesn't make sense to me. How does a boar smashing into you apply frost? I would instead give it an effect similar to Hecarim's charge where it will knock you backwards slightly. This gives her a hard CC disrupt that isn't broken, takes great positioning and can help her out.
  • I would have her W apply Frost to all targets affected. If you're summoning a Blizzard around your character, there's no way people aren't frozen. I would remove the lower bound damage and just make the "enemies frosted" value the real value (it's still lower than Syvana's by a landslide). The duration would likely have to be reduced to 3 or 4 seconds (or scales with level) as a 5 second slow effect on top of a 3 second permafrost might be too strong and the radius would have to be slightly reduced as well.
  • Her E is really good as is. The cooldown is high enough that you can't really abuse the slow effect with the new frost targets on the change to W.
  • Her ultimate is perfect. I think altering that would make her too strong.

These changes would allow her to remain a nuisance tank that gets into things and slow/disrupts the enemies. It will also give her more viability outside of her ultimate, jungling sustainability, utility to a team and make a ton more sense in translating real life to the game.

@DeathandDecay: Thanks for the kind words!
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DeathandDecay | October 10, 2012 10:24pm
AMAZING guide. thanks :) , i know alot about jungling but this is very in depth and informative. +1 :D
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TheEmporor | October 9, 2012 9:06pm
I see, thank you for responding to my post!, but what are your thoughts on my current personal build for Sejuani ( I don't usually Copy builds item for item).

Ionian boots of lucidity (or Mercs) > Deathcap > Rod of ages > Rylai's Crystal Scepter > Athene's unholy grail > V-staff.(keep in mind This is after I sold my Philo stone, and started with R pendant and 3 pot. .), and what are your thoughts on Armor + 5p on Sejuani?

And one final question; what buff would you impart on Sejuani to make her a better jungler?

Again thank you for responding,
~TheEmperor
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Hahano (73) | October 9, 2012 6:21am
@TheEmporor: I would give her an much higher farm score if her sustain weren't so bad. While going Q-W-E on a wave or jungle camp will clear very quickly, it costs 165 mana. At level 3 that's 49% of her mana pool (165 / 340) and it doesn't get much better until after level 7 where it's about a third. This is okay when you have blue buff, but if you QWE a wave and try to return to the jungle without blue, your clear times will severely suffer. Even after building a fast Philo (which we both do), her mana and sustain issues are present.

Her "late game" like extremely, full build late, is fine. With the full item build you have on that guide, she'll be doing 200+ base magic damage per second to frosted targets around her per second. She also has an AoE stun, which is amazing. But the AoE stun is really the only thing her actual late game is about. At full build you can potentially beat people up, but you have one high damage move and then a slow/gap closer that both don't do enough damage or have high enough cooldowns that they're non-factors that late. Even amongst tanky junglers with AoE Auras (Amumu, Shyvana, Nautilus) her damage output is lower or on par at full build.

Also, I wouldn't rush Warmog's on any jungler (except MAYBE a super fed Mundo). The benefits you get from something like Philo > Glacial Shroud greatly outweigh any component of Warmog's on Sejuani. The extra damage from having more life doesn't come into play until later in the game, so the only benefit to Warmog's that fast is to make you a wet noodle with some life. Playing her today, I would probably go Boots > Philo > Sapphire Crystal > HoG > Shroud > Negatron > Giant's Belt > Other stuff (similar to build 4 but with the option to do things like early Aegis, AP or full tank).

I really like Sejuani and very much wish that her and Volibear would be more viable. I love giant, manly, awesome creatures like bears and boars and phantom horsemen. Unfortunately, both Volibear and Sejuani suffer issues that make them only playable if you're too stubborn to care that they're not good. Voli has a home in some top lane matchups and Sejuani is a known issue from Riot to be fixed and reworked. Until then, Sejuani remains a character to play when I want to relax, enjoy my character and have a few drinks with.
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TheEmporor | October 7, 2012 11:30pm
Hey Hahano due to personal experience I believe that Sejuani should have a higher Farm rating if your criteria is "Most of the evaluation is based on clearing a minion wave in a lane quickly and returning to the jungle.", as a Sejuani Q-W-E combo can straight up OBLITERATE any non-super lane minions, especially if you play her AP off-tank. OH! and you can play her AP off-tank! witch should give her better Post jungling as well.

(This is the guide and build order I use btw.)

~TheEmperor
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Hahano (73) | October 1, 2012 9:47am
@Lucasal96: She's in the fringe, I believe.

@NicknameMy: At least he's not DAAAAYYUMMMMMM

@Sukero: Rengar has been played, I have an opinion and ratings, just have to add him.

@Le Gurke: Pretty sure it's Duskbringer? Unless there's a Nightmaid Nocturne skin (arms are swiffer sweepers?), it's Duskbringer on the official site and it makes more sense - the guy brings darkness up in this piece.
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Le Gurke | September 26, 2012 2:21pm
really good guide, but noc's q is "DusTbringer" not "DusKbringer".
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Sukero (1) | September 24, 2012 1:38pm
How about Rengar?
Thanks!
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NicknameMy (153) | September 20, 2012 10:08am
Gragas is fluffy, not fat.
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Lucasal96 (2) | September 15, 2012 7:18pm
NO Akali BUAAAAAAAAAAA
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Agrippa 271 | September 12, 2012 2:16pm
Just curious, but when do you expect to have rengar up? Also, would you call fiddlesticks really viable outside of solo que? He is so easy to shut down with a strong early duelist/anyone with hard cc that he can literally be killed when he is lvl 2 right after his blue.
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floriansaul (1) | September 9, 2012 3:22pm
Cough cough jungle sion works great just dont play ap like a nooblord cough cough
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wondra | September 8, 2012 3:20am
You v got a serious mistakes about Diana , you say her ulti can be used five tomes without cooldown - its wrong, after first use of ulti all her moonlights are removed. Also, you say her Moonsilver Blade benefits from moonlight... idk how :D
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NicknameMy (153) | September 6, 2012 12:19pm
I think it is just a problem that Nunu doesn't fit in the whole raiting system. He is mostly played to control the enemy big minions (this is why you ward the enemy jungle constantly) and control the whole map with oracle. He most of the time just roams around and actually only jungles for the first 2 clears and afterwards not very often. If you ward properly the enemy jungle and kill all wards of the enemy jungler, you got a big advantage over him and this way you can easily control it. For example, Nunu beats Nocturne hardcore.

And this overall map control with insant big minion steals is what Nunu defines and makes him different from champs like Dr. Mundo or Shyvana. He will not kill you, but make you feel sad inside, much like Teemo.
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Hahano (73) | September 6, 2012 12:04pm
@SpawnofHell: Jungle Gragas seems iffy, but I can add him to the fringe list. To not worm out of answering, I feel that his sustain would be ok in the jungle and his true strength of crazy AP burst/displacement would be wasted. I can see games where he can have a huge impact and then I can see games where you get counterjungled and become useless outside of your ultimate. Certainly play him if you enjoy it, but he isn't a competitive pick.

@Astynax: Shyvana's ganks don't suck at all, but she's still not as good as pretty much anyone on this list, hence the low score. Ganking and speed are the categories that are closest in competition. Shyvana's ganks can be extremely strong and game ruining, even without red buff, because you can come fresh off their jungle and get behind them in lane at 950 move speed. This isn't mentioning that your auto cancel into Q + burnout will do 50% of someone's life instantaneously. The issue is they can flash away, ghost, be in a better position or be playing back and this is no longer viable whereas on other characters it is more so.

For your Nunu comments a few points:
  • Speed is a hard thing to grade on Nunu because I don't have an exponential decay function on my rating bars. His level 1 and level 2 are extremely fast and the longer time goes on the more painfully slow he becomes.
  • His sustain is based on the fact that your ganks take up all of your mana. His solo-sustain is fine with his passive, however if you gank a lane and shoot off 2 snowballs good luck having mana without your passive. This slows his jungle down really hard as well as makes casting your ultimate difficult at times. His life isn't much of an issue, and yes after Philo he gets better, but the reason he's sustained is because you're not jungling as often as roaming and ganking (see: camping top). That doesn't mean you score higher in that category.
  • Ganking is a different bag for Nunu. Recall that ganking and speed are always close in these ratings. However, comparing Nunu to Rammus is a mistake. Rammus ganks lanes at movespeeds that wards don't counter and offers CC that can draw people away from towers, interrupt their escapes and ruins many other things. Sure Nunu's ganks are strong with the slow and having a Kage's (which is built after like HoG and Philo...so real late) to do truck hitting damage is pretty lackluster. A 5 doesn't mean he's bad at ganking, a 5 means he's average. It's not the reason you play Nunu, just like it's not the reason you'd play Shyvana. It's the reason you play Nautilus or Rammus, because you don't play those characters for map control and counter jungling.
  • Counter jungling is a real sticky thing. He CAN counter jungle everything. I do it when I play him. Where there is issue is on his strength as counter jungling. He can control your jungle and ward it so that a TEAM can come and kill a jungler. However, he does NOT offer the level of counter jungling that someone like Shyvana does. Shyvana will come take your stuff and kill you at the same time. Nunu will take your wraith and scamper away - which doesn't work when their jungler starts to take timers on wraiths (as a smart one should). Nunu requires a team. Take the latest game of TSM v Dignitas in the S2 NA Regionals. TheOddOne's Shyvana owned Skarner, flat out. Why is that? Well, Shyvana can kill Skarner at level 1, 2, 3, 4 until about 6 or 9 when Skarner's tankiness and damage pick up. Now, put Nunu in there. What does Nunu do to Skarner? Take his wraith and leave? Ice blast Skarner and pray his team comes to help or he has to run away? Just because he can disrupt, control and be an annoyance in the jungle doesn't mean he is an amazing counter jungler.
  • I am in the process of reworking the ratings and updating this guide (massive time sink) and it will be going up, but it won't be a 10 still. Keep in mind that TheOddOne's Nunu guide was for pre-nerf and post-buff Nunu and my ratings come from the dark age in between.

Either way, thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you took the time to register and reply with your thoughts and it's the constant feedback that keeps this guide what it is today.
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NicknameMy (153) | September 6, 2012 7:17am
I think the Nunu part is pre buffs.
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Astynax | September 5, 2012 3:07pm
Overall:
Very good, helpful guide to the new junglers. It's informative, and very well wrtten/thought out.

HOWEVER, I disagree on a few points:
Shyvanna's ganks (ESP post 6) do not suck why you rush the phage, and forget the wriggles, because she really doesn't require one. with a phage, + her burst, + her tankiness, her ganks get pretty good....

Nunu:
Man, I really think you screwed this one up....
Speed: I'll give you, he's a little slow, but not nearly as slow as you play him out to be. I find him to have about the jungle speed of Ali. Give or take a little.
Sustain: Okay, not the best, but after a philo stone, (or running him as a top-lane camper [show me a jax top and i'll show you a gg])you'll basically never go b without 2k gold afterward.
Ganking: this seems kinda dumb.... Let's run a comparison: Rammus v Nunu.... Rammus has hard cc, and a bit more damage. Nunu's snowballs hit like a truck with just a kage's, and his slow/speed is equal to rammus in most regards. To put his ganking at a 5 because he doesn't have huge damage is stupid, because he gives your bruiser a zeal, and that **** hurts. I got a GP 16 kills in lane against a duo top. This rating seems so wrong to me.
Counter-jungling: Go listen to TheOddOne. Just... do it... cause this is wrong. My enemy never gets their big wraith when i'm nunu. And i spend half my time in their jungle because I have way more MS than they ever could, and I get to walk in and out because nobody can catch me. Seriously, go to solomid.net, and read OddOne's guide on nunu. You run him because you can counter jungle ANYBODY!
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SpawnOfHell (15) | September 4, 2012 9:39pm
I think I made a comment on it some time back which you didn't respond to (no worries though), but... thoughts on Jungle Gragas? I haven't seen it being played much at all, but it seems quite good after trying it myself a few games. First clear is pretty decent with great sustain by maxing W first and his ganks with double buff are really strong with a low cooldown gap closer slow. His dueling isn't half bad with his steroid and even against the strongest duelists he can easily escape fights by dashing through walls, etc. Level 6 ganks are BRUTAL. I experimented with maxing CDR and his ult basically sets any laner up for death. AP build for jungle is... not good, but having his ult with 40% CDR is great for disruption and he can be built as a support or even tank items with Trinity Force for damage. He's obviously not Noc/Mundo/Lee level in terms of jungling but it's pretty good imo.

Also I think you should look at Nunu again. Sure he's not at his level of power in the old jungle but against any passive jungler he is still a living nightmare. He can screw over most junglers by crippling their camps and ruining their mid-late game and he's hard to counter without having to limit your own team comp. Also he's got a strength most junglers don't (I think only Cho level 6 and Fiddles have this), and that's his ability to solo Dragon at level 5 with 3 ranks in Consume. I think there should be at least a footnote for this, since it doesn't seem to really fit any of your rankings.

Just my two cents, I'm not a jungler specialist by any means, but it would be nice to hear your own thought on this. Thanks.
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Elektro (1) | September 2, 2012 8:59am
Thanks for the perfect overview :)
Very nice guide for new junglers
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TwitcherBrain (37) | September 1, 2012 9:02am
That's guide is realistic and perfect. You can also add Zyra, she isnt best jungler, but she can.
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Hahano (73) | August 28, 2012 7:43am
@NicknameMy, OTGBionicArm, SpartaDeathAngel: I'm going to try a new approach and stream some matches trying these junglers out. I may not have time until this weekend, but you can check out own3d.tv/Hahano and follow to see when I'll do it (if you're interested).

@ProsdontQQ: Thanks for the kind words. I am in the process of making both this and my other guide longer, more in depth, better formatted and in .pdf format for people to print, read easier and keep formatting. It will be free for anyone to see and likely hosted or linked on my wordpress site (hahano9.wordpress.com) when it is available.
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ProsdontQQ | August 24, 2012 2:07pm
I was reading an article on www.gettherax.com on how to increase my ELO. This guide was highly recommended by the author if I wanted to get hardcore with my jungling, and he hit the nail right on the head. If not for him and his site I never would have found you. I probably would have just ate whatever google fed me first. Thank God they recommended it AND gave the link, instead of just copy/pasting a few bits from your guide and calling it their own. I hate it when people do that!

Not only is this the best jungle guide on mobafire, it's the best jungle guide on the net. And I don't say that often enough for guides, which is a damn shame. You did an awesome job, and I really appreciate it. I will be keeping this guide in my bookmarks, and I might even print it out and staple it into a guide booklet. Is that ok with you? I would only share it with my LAN party buddies.

Thanks again. Your hard work is truly an inspiration.

Sincerely,
PDQQ
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SpartaDeathAngel (46) | August 24, 2012 1:36pm
Hello, I see that you are missing 4 junglers. Jayce, Rengar, Darius, and Garen.
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OTGBionicArm (411) | August 24, 2012 8:09am
Rengar. That is all.
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NicknameMy (153) | August 24, 2012 7:45am
BTW: Another jungler which is by now not mentioned: Jayce. While Jayce hasn't the overall best jungle, he is probably the best ranged ad-carry for jungling. And in his meele form he has a gap closer which he can combine with his gate. Obviously better at top, but still viable in the jungle.
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Hahano (73) | August 24, 2012 6:46am
@NicknameMy: As an overall comment, I don't feel that Darius or many other characters should be jungling. Yes, they're able to jungle, but I don't feel it plays to their strengths - which is what composing a team in a team game is all about. I'm sure that Brett Favre can run a football, but that doesn't mean he should be a running back. It doesn't help any that Phreak jungles literally every champion with Tri-force to make my face bloody with how many times I smash it into my keyboard.

As far as Darius, I've played him a few times in a jungle, but not as much as many of the others in this guide. While I didn't play him enough to get "true appreciation" of his ability there, the games I had did not show a great jungling promise. He has a hard time ganking despite having a CC mechanism, gets underfarmed unless there's a ton of kills under his belt and his early burst damage isn't remarkable. Slap all of this together and you get a lackluster jungler that can prey on bad players and will get strangled by good ones.

Also, if you have a comment on a champion, shoot me a PM or something. Leaving a comment for the fifteenth time here doesn't give way to conversation - just an opinion. If you PM me, we can talk about it, and this way I can actually give you reasoning behind my choices and make reasonable changes to champions.
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NicknameMy (153) | August 24, 2012 5:00am
Quoted:
He can get in there just fine, but he needs a lower life jungler to instagib. If their jungler is higher life he would have to be fresh off a recall or ahead to bully them around because he isn't an amazing duelist without items.


Flat out wrong. He has the highest damage of all champions at earlygame. Nobody can trade with him except Olaf. And even if he is behind in life he still wins fights. He is one of the best duelists early in the game. And if he has red buff, you are ****ed in the jungle.

I know now why people don't play jungle Darius, because he is totally underrated in what he does best.

Quoted:
Your spin does more damage to the exterior enemies. This means that you can take a step or two backwards from the camp and get a little more damage in without losing time for an auto.


Wrong, the spin bonus damage only applies to champions.


Did you even play the champ?
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Hahano (73) | August 23, 2012 11:34am
@LoLxCharger: Thanks for the pick up on that. I will likely just remove the number and let people take me on faith because it's bound to change one day.

@vanxidomor: Thanks for that, I never had reason to do such and assumed it worked that way (removing a single charge and not all currently active). It will be updated in the next pass.

@OTGBionicArm: I have not tried Garen in the jungle yet because his remake is still relatively new. I don't feel he'll be too good at ganking, even worse than Shyvana because even though he has a silence, Shyvana has a massive move speed boost that last longer AND applies red buff. I also think that Garen has a rough life in late game most times even with top lane farm, so less will do him no good. I won't strike him off yet, but he's low on the priority list. Zyra is so ridiculous in the middle that jungling her is a waste of her talent. I haven't done so because of that.

@Derpcuppycake: I will add her to fringe, thanks.

@Gettherax: Thanks for the mention, it's always appreciated.

@nhom: Fizz data is based on ~1 week after his release when builds were up in the air. While AP Jungle Fizz might snowball harder as an AP assassin, I have not tried the build. I honestly may not get around to retouching it either because I feel his sustain will take a big hit without a Wriggle's or some sort of life steal mechanism. If you'd like to chat with me about it and provide me some insight, replays or live action jungle AP Fizz, please PM me and we'll do it to it.

@Warteck: Beep bop boo, thank you
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Warteck (2) | August 22, 2012 10:03pm
bleep bloop blop, +1!
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nhom (1) | August 22, 2012 8:16am
"Fizz sort of snowballs"
Yeah if you build him as ad bruiser it is "sort of" but AP Fizz snowballs a LOT. I'm wondering why did you played Fizz as ad jungler but diana as ap. It needs some refresh imo, he is not good jungler but as ap he snowballs a lot and is very usefull as carry-assassin late game.
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Gettherax (2) | August 21, 2012 7:25pm
Hey Hahano!

Awesome guide. I really enjoyed reading it, although it took a while! lol. But, don't change a thing because it's perfect as the guide to end all other jungle guides. It was the best one I could find on several sites, not just mobafire. In fact, I am recommending this guide in my up and coming article on www.gettherax.com which will be titled “Improve Your ELO in Just One Week! Stevo's Top League of Legends Guide Picks to Help You Improve Your Ranked Gaming!” It should be hitting our site either tonight or tomorrow morning, so be sure to check it out!

Keep up the good work!
~Stevo
8/21/2012
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Derpcuppycake | August 21, 2012 5:05pm
By the way Katarina Jungle acually works! I've seen it and shes really fast with her low cooldown w, but her ganks arn't that good
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OTGBionicArm (411) | August 17, 2012 7:37am
Hey, Hahano, have you thought of trying Garen as a jungler with her latest changes? He's decently fast at it now, just has a slightly slow start, but he's really sustained and may not have CC but offers A LOT of damage and snowballs very well now.

I'd say he's kind of like Shyvana or Dr. Mundo now in terms of jungling. :p

I've used him as a jungler a few times now, and won every game, getting any kills snowballs his spin to win damage into insanity. :p


Also, what about Zyra? She's also apparently able to jungle well, and would be another AP addition to Fiddlesticks.
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vanxidomor | August 16, 2012 4:57am
So you know, under Diana. If you hit with Q, then use R, all of the moonlight debuffs disappear, so you can only use R twice in a short timeframe (without usual cooldowns).
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LoLxCharger | August 15, 2012 2:12pm
This was a very helpful guide, well done.

...but I couldn't help but notice one small error... you have Gangplanks base health as the highest in the game, which is correct, but, it is not 495 at level 1, it is 576. His base health is 495, but at level 1 (since we don't start at level 0/base/wtf?), the second you get in the game it is 576.

How do I know, your source says so very misleadingly...
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Hahano (73) | August 14, 2012 6:33am
@ Pheyniex: My friends and I have a game we call "Summoned Summoners" where we pick a role then random lock in blind pick. I always pick jungling then lock in, so I've actually gotten Galio twice when this happens. He, surprisingly, isn't a bad jungler. He does start slow but speeds up once you have levels in your skills. His ganks are mediocre, clearing is mediocre and item progression is less than optimal. However his teamfight still is strong and could work against possible double AP comps and I don't recommend him against strong invasion. Other than that he's really fun, I quite enjoyed it.
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Pheyniex (71) | August 13, 2012 8:41am
Question!

This is higly hipster jungling, but have you tried Galio? He's very sustained and i'm in processe of loosening masteries/starting item to see how it goes. The problem is that he has a rather slow start. Not sure if Shen slow or Taric slow. Is this of your interest? =)

keep up your good work.
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Mankaryouz | August 1, 2012 6:28pm
I did jungle for the first time since like 3 days and I did start with Xin. Damn..
He is so pro when ganking, just dives at the target and than knock him after 3 hits he's dead.
Also I never start at blue. That's so special at Xin. You don't need blue so early for the mana, it also helps you stop invades. They may think you will get blue, but you don't.

This guide is great. Thanks for sharing this with us.

Mankaryouz
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cooper56 (28) | July 21, 2012 5:09pm
xin scales better into late

also eve is alot better late game not even close to a 1 IMO now she is less relent on stealth and better in fights.

Twitch im not sure dont play him.
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NicknameMy (153) | July 21, 2012 9:19am
So, after the multiple reworks and buffs, I think some updates are needed. Especially Xin seems to scale now way better into lategame and he is an overall better pick.
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kidd99 | July 10, 2012 2:02am
This is by far the greatest guide i have read, and it taught me how to be a successful jungler with a multitude of characters. The only thing i would like to see added into this guide would be a purchase guide for each jungler in a standard meta game, but even without that, this has been the most in-depth guide i have seen. Great job and i look forward to your future additions
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Hahano (73) | July 6, 2012 8:04am
@DeeZeeL: I do have him on the spectrum as a 6 after the changes, which is much higher than Master Yi's current score of 2. I agree with you on your points and rate his ganking pre-6 as standard and post-6 as good. You can have some real cool stuff such as sneaking into the top/bottom brush in lane and ganking from there, etc, however he doesn't have the slow debuff without red. Having a sneaky burst is a help, but Shaco has the boxes and a slow while Wukong just has sneakiness.

Thanks for the comment.
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DeeZeeL | July 6, 2012 2:41am
Really great guide, so a +1 from me. I can see that you spent a lot of time on this, and it has really helped me consider different types of junglers.

I have one suggestion, though: I have tried out Wukong jungle several times, and while a 7/10 for ganking is an appropriate score, his pre-level 6 ganks are actually closer to Shaco's than Master Yi's. Decoy can be used from a brush, so you can get in unseen, and then Nimbus Strike to close the distance. After level 6, his ganks just get better.

Of course, wards counter his invisibility (same with Shaco), but it adds an interesting element to the gank that should be added under the "ganking" section.

Again, love your guides. Keep up the great work!
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KoreanFox | July 1, 2012 4:19am
Nice guide and in-depht just one thing...WHERE IS CASSIOPEIA?!?!?!?
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Hahano (73) | June 30, 2012 1:46pm
@NicknameMy:

1. I am not and do not want to be Stonewall [Amplifiers]. Lists of jungle matchups are not only mostly opinionated, but very lengthy. There aren't really true jungle matchups, just those who are better or worse against invasion/performing invasion, which I cover. Yes, there are a few if you want to get technical, but I can't be like "Well Amumu counters A, B, R, E and F champions every time" because that's a joke. The top tier junglers have a place with each other, but I'm not here to give my thoughts on it.

2. Darius and Fiora are on the list.
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NicknameMy (153) | June 30, 2012 4:34am
1. I would add which jungler counters which jungler(jungle matchups). And which jungler scales best with other things like abilities, summoner spells or ambushing(Amplifiers).

2. Add Darius to the list. While his clearing speed is medicore, he has ridicoulus dmg. With that damage, he can easily invade the enemy just to kill him or protect his own jungle with that. Also, he has great damage for ganks into lanes which have cc.
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Jaster111 (1) | June 29, 2012 6:11am
Really awesome guide that really gives us all the information we need about jungling :)
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Just op (2) | June 24, 2012 7:42am
Where is the jungle blitz??
I really miss him. He is so amazing especially his ganks. Try him as jungler!
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DarkVoidShadow (29) | June 23, 2012 8:51am
This was educative :)
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Hahano (73) | June 19, 2012 8:18am
@OTGBionicArm: <3
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OTGBionicArm (411) | June 18, 2012 9:56pm
Hahano, just wanted to say your guide has been a major influence on various sections of my guides. Thanks for writing the best guide on the site!
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Hahano (73) | June 18, 2012 9:53pm
@Zoto888: I burst into laughter about that. Yea, Lee Sin is quite the monster.

@Trallie: I'm sure he can do ok in the jungle, the problem I have with him and other niche junglers is that they really take a lot of effort, luck, bad opponents or skill in order to do. Saintvicious has done a bunch of jungle Veigar and other games, however he is capable to do such due to circumstance. This guide is more meant for actual players that want help instead of 2000+ elo or people playing baddies.

@Fooo: Thanks for the kind words!
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Fooo | June 17, 2012 7:59pm
This is absolutely brilliant. LoL needs more people like you..wow...my hat's off to you kind sir...
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Trallie (1) | June 17, 2012 8:55am
You know, I just played Karthus jungle and I got 6/1/7, he clears pretty fast but his movement speed is slow. His ganks are pretty good, the wall slowing them, you can hit them trice with your Q, all they have to do is over-extend a little bit.

These are my pro/cons off jungle Karthus:

Pro's
Fast jungler
Global ultimate is very good to help any lane.
Pretty strong ganks.
Can give Red Buff to top lane.
Cons
Blue dependant
Karthus' E ability eats mana, even with blue.
Ultimate has a long cooldown.
Slow movement.
People will call you a troll
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Zoto888 (1) | June 13, 2012 1:23pm
Another tip for taking down Udyr is: Be Lee Sin. As someone who plays jungle Udyr, I know that Lee Sin CAN duel me. -_- Great guide though, helped me counter a few enemy junglers.
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The Sea King | June 6, 2012 9:37am
Very good guide!!!!!!
but scorpions are arachnids, not insects;D
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VJO. (1) | June 6, 2012 1:20am
How did u make those bars and stuff, dat is awesome guide, pls teach me little :)
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Bozbacca | June 1, 2012 7:15am
you definetely need to update this to include a few more new common junglers. But good guide.

Also...try jungle fiora!
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FalseoGod (305) | May 29, 2012 4:00pm
This guide is absolutely amazing. It actually made me miss jungling with Kayle and Evelynn (she requires people with eyes by the way, I've often failed early game ganks because people decided I could be invisible forever). You've made me curious about Singed in the jungle as well.

One guy I've seen jungling (and tried myself) you didn't mention is Twisted Fate (seen AP and I've done him hybrid DPS with good HP). He is not blue dependant due to blue card, can clear the jungle very well after madred's (attack speed and bonus damage on E, W can stun the creeps or AoE damage them, I don't level Q on my hybrid one). His ulti is scarier since frequently people won't know where he is.

Issues rely on: early game squishyness, requires people with eyes so your gold card can give that precious early game stun, and can be counter jungled by Big Boy junglers (although you can escape most if necessary). The cool think about this jungler is that his help is quite nice, and his lategame is fabulous (on-hit tf melts face nearly as fast as your AD carry while having more survivability).
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Agrippa 271 | May 29, 2012 2:44pm
When jungling Riven, i currently start wolves then go wraiths, use smite on the big golem when i take them, go back to wolves, and if i have enough life, go to wraiths again before recalling. Then i go take red and usually get to level 4 before i start to gank. I tried early level two ganks before, when i started jungling riven (probably too early) and didn't do well. This is mostly because I play with more experienced friends and consequently get people who have played many more games than i. Should i try to learn how to early gank at level two when i play on my own?
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Andi7296 (2) | May 28, 2012 11:07am
I'm searching for a jungler that can raise my elo from 1000, I'm thinking between Nocturne and Lee Sin, What do you think will be better?
I'm not bad, so the dificulty of the champion isn't a problem.
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Thypari (2) | May 28, 2012 7:55am
Where is Darius and Fiora?
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Basinator (5) | May 28, 2012 4:22am
Hi!

Tried Trynda jungling at lv1 sometime ago with vamp scepter, but I had to recall at least once per match early game cause of HP.

Is his jungling really rune dependant or can you do it even with something summ lvl 19-22?

Got any tips?

Tried again. A few times in CG.

If I don't succed next time (I will not sustain fury this time when going from a camp to a camp but instead use it heal after i finished the current camp) I will drop it and come to the conclusion you need either the right runes, masteries and/or summ level.

A workaround is - well, you will hate me for this - getting heal as SS.
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A Chubby Baby (290) | May 24, 2012 1:16am
i think someone needs to read this guide.

great guide anyways. will help me out.
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OTGBionicArm (411) | May 24, 2012 1:12am
This guide has helped me alot, with every jungler (this guide made me wanna try them all that were on your list!) I was wondering how you make the 1/10 scales in the guide, as well is if it would be ok to use a similar layout to this guide for a solo top guide I want to write, with credits to you of course!
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cooper56 (28) | May 23, 2012 1:06pm
Since new patch is out i would like add.

Hecarim jungle speed much faster i know it seems minor but test him now... might warrant a 8 in jungle speed IMO now early on much better speeds.

Same with fid.... return of jungle fid? :D
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L4GS-SP33D | May 18, 2012 3:23pm
Nice post, i'll +1 you :)
btw, you forgot Irelia, awesome jungler. Here's a guide i made, try using her, i think it;s worth buying her. :) (it's not spam, plz don't think badly of me, i would link you another one, but there are not much Irelia jungle guides out there, and i have yet to find a really, really awesome one. Mine isn't btw -.-)

Jungle Irelia
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Tactica Elmo | May 15, 2012 9:56pm
WHERES LE BLANC!
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Raid Z3ro | May 14, 2012 4:00pm
bookmarked in toolbar (+1)
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Thypari (2) | May 8, 2012 8:55am
Where is Fiora? :(((
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Badcops4455 (2) | May 3, 2012 5:57am
Hi! I see myself as the inventor of the Ziggs jungle. I would love it if you included it here since it is actually a great and viable choice if you play it right. It's anmoying that he is underrated and people laugh at me and gets mad calling me a troll if I pick him.
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SpawnOfHell (15) | May 2, 2012 11:19pm
Hi,

Just wanted to say that this guide was very interesting and informative to read, this really helped me decide which junglers to play, good job. You have a +1 from me, sir.

I noticed some errors between the stats you've given on your cheat sheets and the actual stats (Xin having a 5 when you rated him 6 in the cheat sheet, Skarner having a 7 in sustain when you gave him 8, etc). This is just a minor thing, but you might want to check on those.

One thing though, I felt that some of your ratings don't seem to properly reflect your thoughts on them, for example, Trundle and Lee having the same post-jungling rating even though I felt you didn't make that impression from your explanations. I'm not sure if you did this intentionally, but since you have the ratings to compare between junglers I think this might need to be looked at.

Also, I was looking at your section on Rammus and I noticed you don't mention Yorick as a counter. I personally find Yorick to be a big counter to Rammus' ganks in lane because he can place a ghoul in front of him to interrupt his Powerball and slow him as well.

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried out Gragas and Twisted Fate in the jungle? They definitely aren't the strongest picks but they have niche roles. Gragas is kinda gimped since you can't run AP on him but I saw him once in a tanky-support role and I was curious about how useful he is in the jungle. His ganks are really strong after level 6 and I assume he's pretty fast due to AoE on two of his abilities. TF's ganks are godly and have the advantage of people not knowing his position making his ultimate so strong. He kinda sucks on the speed and sustain and everything else but I'd like to see your thoughts.

Finally, I watched your Sion video. I laughed hard.
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Hahano (73) | April 30, 2012 7:00am
@Briefcase Bunny: I did it once because I random lock jungled for funsies. She's not really that viable and her jungling is pretty bad. Her ganks can be good in the right situations, but I don't feel they're top tier. She has bad speed and jungle sustain, but doing it is certainly possible. If you really like Poppy, check out SpamHappy's guide over at Solomid.net where he goes into great detail about everything Poppy.
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Briefcase Bunny (2) | April 30, 2012 4:27am
I was wondering if you ever looled into poppy being
A jungle, she is very viable and has amazing ganks, if you would look into her I would appreciate it
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Hahano (73) | April 29, 2012 6:52pm
@cooper56: I also hated playing Master Yi :D He's been around long enough that I felt I had to do it, but Shyvana was fun.
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tehAsian (247) | April 28, 2012 6:52pm
Cooper, the difference is Yi and Shyvana actually do damage early game, and they clear much faster.

Shyvana is also not kill dependant.
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cooper56 (28) | April 28, 2012 6:38pm
Hahano wrote:

@All: Fiora isn't added because I hated playing her and dread playing her more to make a video. I'll get to it soon enough, but it was extremely frustrating when I played her because her ganks are SO BAD and she's not good unless she has kills.

same could be said about yi or shyvana which you feature.
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Silver Champz | April 27, 2012 3:45am
simply amazing guide
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Hahano (73) | April 24, 2012 9:07pm
@All: Fiora isn't added because I hated playing her and dread playing her more to make a video. I'll get to it soon enough, but it was extremely frustrating when I played her because her ganks are SO BAD and she's not good unless she has kills.
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legendar1000 | April 24, 2012 6:31am
You should add Fiora as a jungler she can jungle and not bad at all
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cooper56 (28) | April 23, 2012 8:26pm
Why no fiora jungle? Just wondering shes not listed or in lost or forgotten. I under stand shes better top but same could be said for jarvan and many junglers.
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Hahano (73) | April 18, 2012 6:55am
@Tina: That's exactly how I build Maokai :D I think I technically went Sapling Toss > Arcane Smash > Sapling Toss (unless ganking) > Twisted Advance > max Q, max W max E. The second point helps a lot more with the double AoE and makes his clear sufficient until the Q damage starts to get up there.

I also have Kayle on this list already, and loved the hell out of her. In fact, I liked her so much I made a guide and two videos, so he just didn't check it out!
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Tina (6) | April 17, 2012 8:41am
Ive got one thing to say about Maokai: I usually level up his Q first, Snare 2nd and Sappling at the end, putting 1 point into it at lvl 1 for the fastest first camp clear ever.
I find his Q to be much better in jungle and to gank, it has a low cd, deals good dmg for its cd and manacost, which are also low, he charges his passive faster this way, has great CC and better sustain over all.

I start with regrowth pendant, build into philo at my first trip back and usually dont need the 2nd blue buff.
Try it out :-) sapplings are great, but if youre jungling and not going the AP route, which I dont as jungle Mao, I dont find them to be that effective, still great for some extra dmg and the "ward" utility.

Definetely try it out!


PS: I agree with Thypari, Im playing jungle Kayle recently and she´s awesome! Much better than Jax imo, better sustain, much better speed before lvl 6 when its most important, after that Kayle also has got her Wriggles, so theres not much difference even then, better ganks, since Kalye has got better CC and its ranged and her dmg output is quite insane early, and she´s got a haste.
She´s also able to support her mates while traveling along the map, thats why I usually max out heal first, to heal my allies better and to sustain myself in jungle, it also comes in very handy while ganking and since her dmg is so cruel, I dont feel like needing Reckoning above lvl 1 early.
Her Team utility is almost unrivaled and she can be built in many different ways, I usually stick to Trinity, Gunblade/Wits End, Nashors, some Tank Item, like frozen heart, if needed, but there are many possible ways, can also buy an early Malady, to crush enemies even better while ganking.

But tbh I found the Sheen effect to be very nice with Kayle, great burst, and she uses many abilities throughout a fight anyways, constant Reckoning, Healing, setting sword on flames ... :D
The additional slow from Phageas is also great and speed ... well Kayle benefits so great from AS, its almost stupid, I like it.
Kayle really rox the jungle, most likely not tier1 Jungler like Lee, Skarner and Dragon, but definetely better than Jax and among the top tier 2 Junglers imo.
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Thypari (2) | April 15, 2012 1:38pm
ok so what about kayle?
I started playing her in the jungle and she is so damn genious!

You are the only jungler with a "ranged" attack. You have a 4s slow on lvl1. A heal and movementspeed buff and a shield to tower dive.


AMAZING

EDIT: sry didnt see she was already in there <3
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Hahano (73) | April 15, 2012 12:46pm
@Pheyniex: I haven't tried him and will eventually. He's a pain to play in the jungle becaues he's SO SO SO SO SO good with farm, but super bad without it.

@Sony: Thanks!

@Lauwarmbier: I don't want to link up guides because they're either subject to change, not what I agree with or simply don't exist. If I really like a character, I will make a guide, but most times I just kinda build stuff. I'm awful with Udyr, comparatively, (even though he's my fav) but I usually go Wriggle's > Wit's End > Spirit Visage > Win game. There are so many opinions on it, though, so that's another reason I don't dive into that.
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Lauwarmbier (1) | April 15, 2012 5:07am
you did a great job there! it helps a lot to decide what jungler you should pick. also great information on counter jungling and so on. well done!

something additional... you might wanna connect links to jungling guides for the several charakters. or maybe put a few choices of runes and items.

you said udyr is your favourite jungler... i would love to see your build :)

+1 !!!
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Sony (1) | April 14, 2012 8:27pm
Awesome guide on jungling!!! It will help me a lot to get started with Shyvana as a jungler, thanks! (I've only played Shyv in a lane so let's see XD)
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Pheyniex (71) | April 13, 2012 6:57pm
Q: Yorick has been free this week and i've been jungling with him. Although ganks seem a pain with only a slow, i end up using 4 helth pots of the cloth+5. Have you tried it to have a good opinion on him? (i went a botgame to check how sustaind he was and got tired of having 5k, no boots and full health/mana to keep going)

BTW, saw malmortious' stream as he went jungle with talon... poor guy.
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Hahano (73) | April 13, 2012 4:44pm
@black-witch: Thanks!

@Aporia: It's a bit of both. I like her as a pick, but I feel she's not as strong as she used to be for most games. I do think she's a good one because of her AoE utility and pretty strong harassment, but she's weak against other casters right now.

To be honest, you can wreck with her if you want to play her. Don't let other things put you back for it, play who you want and win (it's what many pros have done and created new ways to think of the game).
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Aporia (1) | April 12, 2012 8:20am
This is an amazing guide. I constantly reference it while the game is loading to read up on my match-up.

One question. For a couple of junglers, you have Orianna on the suggested team comp. Was that from back when Ori was good, or do you still see her as a strong choice for those junglers?

I like to run Ori mid because she's fun, but in most cases she doesn't seem to be a strong pick. I'd love to have a reason to break her out more often :)
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black-witch (2) | April 11, 2012 4:27pm
This is the best thing that happened to me in this site.
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Hahano (73) | April 10, 2012 3:27pm
@Thypari: He's on the fringe list, I believe. He's barely played top and even less so in the jungle. He is one I will keep in the fringe unless someone breaks out with him.
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Thypari (2) | April 10, 2012 7:13am
what about renekton?
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Hahano (73) | April 9, 2012 7:57pm
To all: I will be adding Fiora. I'm currently having fun playing Blitzcrank and such: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHxVY_-icRE
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Werepirelord (65) | April 8, 2012 4:43am
I actually think Jarvan is a pretty good farmer, but anyway, ar'nt you going to make Fiora?
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ARC N7 | April 7, 2012 2:52am
Very good guide.
Exellent work.
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Hahano (73) | April 5, 2012 1:46pm
@Drachen: Sustainability is referring to jungle sustainability and the earlier levels (pre-8 or 9). Maokai, in this respect, is awful because he spends a lot of mana to get the job done compared to someone like Shen or Riven or Udyr. His lane sustainability is great, however in the jungle it's much less. Alistar is a great jungler, just hard to get the hang of.

@Trent: Thanks

@Phyniex: I'll add Fiora sometime. I didn't like playing her because she's Master Yi but I'll get a video, review and the works up some time next week.
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Pheyniex (71) | April 5, 2012 12:36pm
i always check this post. to when a fiora evaluation? i feel she's decent jungling, although ganks feel master yi-like.
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TrentAuuesome | April 5, 2012 11:14am
In your "lost and found section" you forgot to take the [/indent] out of sonas decription so it says "JUST KIDDING! GOTCHA![/indent]" Im assuming you know how to fix this.
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Drachen | April 4, 2012 5:48pm
Epic Guide Bro, But don't hate on the Maokai, his sustain is likely the best in the game almost when he builds healthy tank items, team fights he's being healed for about 200 late game every 2secs. Also, I've never saw an Alistar Jungle, I must try that now XD. Gj overall I can really see you took alot of time!
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antoniogonz1998 | April 4, 2012 5:50am
Awesome guide really helped me a lot. Thank you
+1 vote


I was thinking if you could make a section about jungle fiora
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CommX (20) | April 3, 2012 12:48pm
Good work with this. +1.
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Hahano (73) | April 1, 2012 9:05pm
Yea, don't have one. If it's Unknown it's an empty tag.
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PsiGuard (880) | April 1, 2012 6:38pm
Where's Alistar's video? All I see is "(unknown embed type)."
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Hahano (73) | April 1, 2012 11:43am
@QWERTYx808: The joke is mostly that Phreak says he jungles every new character that comes out. Most of the spotlights have him saying the phrase "tons of damage" as well as saying that he prefers to jungle that character. I believe there was a few spotlights in a row that featured this, so it became the running joke that he just jungles everyone and they do tons of damage.
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QWERTYx808 | April 1, 2012 1:35am
Hahano wrote:

@QWERTYx808: Fiora was a jungler because Phreak said "I jungle Fiora" I played her several games and she's really nothing remarkable. That being said, yes, I'll probably add her at some point.

lol? Is it like an inside joke about Phreak saying "I jungle Fiora"?
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p3d0b34rr | March 30, 2012 7:37am
very good guide really useful! +1
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Hahano (73) | March 27, 2012 12:25pm
@QWERTYx808: Fiora was a jungler because Phreak said "I jungle Fiora" I played her several games and she's really nothing remarkable. That being said, yes, I'll probably add her at some point.
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QWERTYx808 | March 27, 2012 3:00am
Just asking is Fiora gonna get added to jungling?
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Hahano (73) | March 26, 2012 7:46pm
@Rancidbudgie: Thanks!

@Blowfeld: Thank you, will fix.
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Blowfeld (108) | March 26, 2012 5:17pm
Minor mistake:

Lee Sin video in the Jarvan section.
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Rancidbudgie (4) | March 26, 2012 4:19pm
I love the new updates, and you have no idea how happy your Sion video made me! This guide continues to grow more and more awesome with each update!
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DTStudios (3) | March 25, 2012 7:08pm
I play Volibear a lot, and i find him to be very effective at laning, definitely more than jungling, but i think with this information ill try it
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Agoney (156) | March 24, 2012 10:03am
My god. This has more information than the government and God know put together. Like, honestly how ****ing long did this take you to make?

+over 90000 1's
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bingbongbash | March 20, 2012 9:53am
nothing about jungling with twitch????
i knw he is not regular jungler but still
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Hahano (73) | March 19, 2012 1:10pm
@Jeutnarg: Great points, I will do it up.
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One4You | March 18, 2012 5:42pm
Very useful! Thanks.
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Jeutnarg (1) | March 18, 2012 2:05pm
First off, amazing guide. So much information and obviously a lot of work put in. It doesn't show, but +1.

You might want to update your Malphite section: "Malphite is the only jungler to have an AoE on his auto attack". Cho'gath has an AoE on his Vorpal Spikes.

I would change your suggested team comp for Cho'gath. I see Cho'gath as more of a counter-pick, because he completely shuts down teams that rely on a channeled ult (I hate Nunu), on a skill-based assassin, or on a powerful AP carry. He should never be put on a team that needs strong initiation, since he just can't do it, and he should never be put on a team as the primary source of CC. His CC is good, but you really want Sion or somebody who Cho'gath can chain off of.
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BloBBloB99 (19) | March 18, 2012 11:13am
Excellent guide here. Will show my teams jungler.

Put Twitch in the Queue.
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Hahano (73) | March 16, 2012 10:45am
@Dargon: I will get on it.

@ggquirocks: He's on the queue.
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da biig bang | March 15, 2012 6:49pm
Amazing guide +1
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DARG0N | March 15, 2012 2:12pm
Excellent guide and more helpful than most of what I have read :)

one problem: I can't watch your Kayle video here in germany probably because of the song you used. can you upload a video without sound?
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Kenou | March 11, 2012 3:28pm
Be still my heart. Elaborate. I would love to see more guides broken down into roles and the champions that fit them.
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ggquirocks | March 11, 2012 10:12am
what about alistar??
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ggquirocks | March 11, 2012 10:12am
what about alistar??
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MadMax83 | March 10, 2012 3:03pm
Absolutely exquisite. This obviously took a lot of dedication!
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PsiGuard (880) | March 7, 2012 9:16pm
He can't delete your post. The only ones with the power to delete others' posts are admins and mods.
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Wolphi (8) | March 7, 2012 8:30pm
Thanks guy , this guide helped me a lot, i voted , i just think that u could be a little bit nicer with WW xP, he's my main and i think that he have the potential to be an at least 6 in jungle speed, and an 8 or 9 in late game... but the entire guide are AWESOME, and, well, he's my main, so i can be over powering him...

uhm, that's my mordekaiser guide...
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/jungle-morde-get-all-the-flame-178422
Hope u don't mind my self promotion ^^' ... anyway, just delete the post if u think it is inappropriate =]

thanks , Great JoB!
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Fulundry (68) | March 7, 2012 6:46pm
Nothing really bad to say here. I play Noc/Xin almost exclusively when jungling, but now there's a few more I want to try.
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DkSolith (2) | March 6, 2012 7:23am
Awesome guide.
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Hahano (73) | March 5, 2012 11:04am
@MaiLinna: Hopefully soon.
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MaiLinna (17) | March 5, 2012 10:42am
When are you gonna do Fiora? <3
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PsiGuard (880) | March 4, 2012 5:44pm
^wat?
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Gruntala (3) | March 4, 2012 5:42pm
AceLaser wrote:

For Sejuani, would lifesteal solve the sustainability problem? Or is that just a waste of money?


Definetly a waste of money. She doesn't get enough AS or AD to utilize it effectivly, and she can't get any good items out of. I know riot tried to make Zeke's hereald more appealling to tanks and supports, but they just made it better for AD junglers and offtanks.
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DkSolith (2) | March 4, 2012 1:06pm
Awesome.
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Hahano (73) | March 2, 2012 2:57pm
@Jpikachu1999: I haven't tried her and she seems okay. She's Master Yi 2.0, so she will have similar qualities to him.
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Jpikachu1999 (151) | March 2, 2012 1:37pm
I know your busy with handling this guide and your website and such, but I do have a question.

What do you think of Fiora in the jungle?

Once she get's Wriggle's she has amazing sustain, and her spells are fairly inexpensive as well. Her Burst of Speed makes her clear more quickly too.

The only thing I can see that would be a problem, is that she has no CC and that she is pretty squishy.

Thank you in advance!
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Stud Muffin | March 1, 2012 8:34pm
Fantastic. +1
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5pirit (1) | March 1, 2012 4:15pm
Personally I think that Amumu is much better than what you say. I can steal Blue from my opponent, and I do all the time. I've been against some of the strongest junglers and stole their blue while they are ganking. Its really easy if you have your W on and continually use E.

Shen DID get a buff, but then he was NERFED. This is huge IMO and will decrease his strength in the jungle, plus the jungle is not design for someone like him since he is not an AoE champ and increasing AS will increase your passive, but will not help with the Q since it does not stack.

Definitely +1 for the guide
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rembot (11) | March 1, 2012 7:48am
Love it! I would give you more then just one +1 and +rep, because both the blog and this guide is amazing information. im constantly playing with a different jungler every week, but im still fairly new to jungling. I played (in the jungle) Olaf, WW, wukong, lee sin, GP and as soon as I get the riot points ill try trundle and Xin Zhao. Anyway i love your guides and blog, it is very helpful.
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Hahano (73) | February 28, 2012 10:55am
@Conquistador0: Haven't changed him yet. I'll change him now since he didn't see any hate on the new patch (I think)

@TrentAuuesome: Yea, good catch. That's months old. I'll have to change it :D I have played Mundo in the jungle and he's just fine. I don't like him all that much and he can be dominated with a CC effect + ignite. There's a few things I don't like about him, but he'll still be getting his ratings soon enough.

For those of you that ask why "X" popular jungler isn't on the list, it's likely because I don't have time. I am blogging over at skillshotpro.com as well as trying to get games in to rate them on. I have priorities above Mundo and Wukong right now, but they should see the light of day soon.
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TrentAuuesome | February 28, 2012 9:04am
At the end of your guide you said the following:
"I didn't include Mordekaiser, Renekton, Nasus, Skarner, Karthus, or the other fringe/new junglers. I haven't played them in the jungle, have no desire to and feel they are just for people that want to mess around in the jungle. I tried to include only viable and competitive jungling picks in this listing.

Next on my list is Nasus and Skarner, so you might see entries for them soon enough. I am going to be playing more Tryndamere and Fiddlesticks to get a better gauge on their ratings to get the IP for Skarner, but I haven't heard or seen good things from him."

But what about Dr.Mundo, he can jungle and get to level 4 by 3:13 which my friend says is better than his shaco. Also, Mundo is a very competitive jungling pick. I would greatly suggest trying him out in the jungle, he is really boss :)
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Conquistador0 (4) | February 28, 2012 3:44am
Is the reason you place Shen as tough because you haven't acknowledged the recent buff? Or because you expect him to be nerfed really soon?
Because Shen snowballs like nobodies business now. His passive and q are godlike when he as some health, and his taunt can be epic throughout the game (when you hit the mage, for instance).

(personally, I prefer him in the lanes. Epic player now)
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AceLaser | February 27, 2012 5:34am
For Sejuani, would lifesteal solve the sustainability problem? Or is that just a waste of money?
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Andele3025 (2) | February 27, 2012 1:09am
Sorry, but i think you underrated nautils speed. If going (no leash) wolf-blue-wraith-wolf-red-golems your finished at 4:30 or of you skip golems your ready to gank at 4:10, just be sure to pre cast your shield for 4 seconds on wolf camp first time since they take it in 3 hits so getting off that 3 aoe before makes a pretty big difference and lets you have the shield as soon as you go to blue, at blue he goes down to 200 hp but you regen it up with hp pots (was in jungle till level 6 with 1 bot and 1 mid gank - both failed) but except that he doesnt get low on any other camp (not sure if with no runes) and with 14 (taking both mr and ad pen since passive is phys damage and 16 in def for the 2 damage reduction from everything and cdr) he is a pretty tank while still dealing nice damage.
My typical item setup is is 2 RoA, Frozen Heart, FoN, Deathcap and Merc Boots (having a Philo stone and selling it for Deatchap after getting FoN and Glacial) 800~ efficient hp shield and 500~700 on target and 250~300 on others from ulti (depending on MR).

Overall if you pre cast shield on wolf, kite blue for 2 bonus shield hits and use the aa reset on it, he gets much faster because of the 100 hp saved.
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HackUser (8) | February 26, 2012 2:20pm
I have seen some good Twitch junglers lately, especially with the (new) Lifesteal Quints.
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Hahano (73) | February 26, 2012 2:16pm
@Nitrokicks: I'll be adding Mundo soon enough. Pantheon has strong ganks but becomes the most painful character ever after like 20 minutes in the game.
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Nitrokicks | February 26, 2012 9:46am
cmon man how can deny jungle mundo -hes my main-
and pantheon has some really strong ganks...
this guide is just beautiful tho, all the info u ever need right here
Very good Job
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ItsJustForFun | February 25, 2012 3:10am
awesome guide :) , but i want to know can cassiopeia jungle ? with her ability and her passive , i think she can jungle well
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Hahano (73) | February 24, 2012 8:35pm
@Gruntala: 80% of creeps in the jungle is like 60% of the lane, so you do need to get like all SS. The beating on weaker ones only works once you have sheen because it takes too much damage to kill one with SS otherwise.
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Gruntala (3) | February 24, 2012 7:16pm
Only thing I have to say is that Nasus doesn't NEED to get every single SS all the time. Even with using it to last hit as often as its up (with smart usage), you can get about 80% of the creeps. Put up different ratings for his speed/counter-jungle, one for MUST SS ALL CREEPS EVERYWHERE and one for just using it while its up. The counter recovery would be same because he needs money for his ridiculously expensive build (IMO).

By smart usage I mean killing the weaker minions when its up and beating on the stronger ones while it isnt.
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Hahano (73) | February 24, 2012 12:47pm
@Dri Fit: I put Orianna in the team sections when she was banned/picked all the time and was a powerhouse! She's still legit, but nothing quite like she was. As for Mundo, I'll be adding him soon enough. I've been trying to improve my game and also have a tournament team I play for, so I haven't been able to get the diversity in due to practice. Mundo, Shen, Shyvana, Nautilus and Jax are all being sprinkled into my competitive practice and will have videos, write ups, updates and articles soon enough.

@Citynim: Junglers should ward. See my other guide for more depth on that, but you should definitely be warding. How much and when is a function of the game and your team, so I can't give you a definitive answer. Also, ironic that you asked if you were blind and your avatar is Lee Sin?
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Citynim | February 24, 2012 3:14am
very nice guide, i dont know if im totaly blind but should a jungler ward? and if he shall ward where and when? :)
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Dri Fit (3) | February 23, 2012 2:37am
How much did Riot pay you to put Orianna on three of the "example team" sections?

On a srs note, thoughts on Mundo? I've seen him being played in high ELO games with mixed success, I still dread the thought of him but I'd just like to see how he matches up against the others and your professional opinion of it.

EDIT: He's currently in your "bad junglers" list, but that hasn't been updated since his buff, as far as I'm aware.
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Hahano (73) | February 19, 2012 7:51pm
@iHades: Thanks for the kind words! Pantheon was really frustrating for that exact reason. I was either fed or had to pray people didn't target me late game. Other junglers like that have ways to get around it (Kayle's Ultimate and such), so it was frustrating. I personally prefer junglers that can not only do well if fed, but can hold bad laner's hands as well. Trundle is a perfect example because he can gank almost anyone and can do all the work if he wants to as well. Lee Sin and Skarner have similar effects.

As far as Skillshotpro.com, we have exciting changes on the horizon. Currently it is down for maintenence, but it will be coming up again soon with my articles and a brand new batch of stuff (about 20 or so to read). I'm looking forward to it and working hard on it as well, so stay tuned! You can always check out my stream at www.own3d.tv/skillshotpro as well to see some of these junglers in action.

@Rancidbudgie: They don't have a +10 :( But Nautilus should be added by Friday. He is frustrating as hell to play, so I'm trying to get an actual good game to do a video on.
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Rancidbudgie (4) | February 19, 2012 2:10pm
Awesome guide, would give it +10 if I could. Looking forward to the addition of Nautilus :D
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iHades | February 19, 2012 8:23am
Hahano wrote:

@iHades: I'm just one man. I'd love to have an extensive and exhaustive list of the junglers and all that, but I'm doing what I can. Keep in mind that I also make videos, write articles, attend full time college and work a real job as well.


First of all, thanks for the quick response!
I love your work though, I really appreciate it. Ever thought of asking someone for some slight help/partnership with it? :) I've seen you've launched skillshotpro.com, how's that going? Working solo on it aswell or do you have some mates who help you out a little?

Hahano wrote:

I don't have the IP to buy Wukong because I keep spending it on the new champs (let's make them all 6300 hurdeehurr). I have jungled Alistar and it was fun and all, but he's much like Pantheon. Great on paper, cool ganks but that's just about all. I have a blast when I gank and my laners aren't the worst players in the universe, however that is typically not the case.


But you're right on that point, Alistar is absolutely fantastic if you have decent lane mates and underwhelming if not (that's mostly the case for solo-queue...). However, Pantheon is really a double-edge. Either you get fed like crazy and faceroll the enemies or you'll do average and won't have any presence in the game at all. (Oh yeah, that 6300...)

Hahano wrote:

Alistar will get his own section and so will Wukong in the future. Nasus is included because I went on a kick with him for a while and that's over with, he's really bad. Singed is actually a legit jungler and can do well.


Glad to hear! Well I actually never gave Singed much of a try, think I'll really have to test him. No offense there mentioning he'd be a joke jungler, was more about Nasus there.

Best Regards.
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Hahano (73) | February 18, 2012 5:42pm
@iHades: I'm just one man. I'd love to have an extensive and exhaustive list of the junglers and all that, but I'm doing what I can. Keep in mind that I also make videos, write articles, attend full time college and work a real job as well.

I don't have the IP to buy Wukong because I keep spending it on the new champs (let's make them all 6300 hurdeehurr). I have jungled Alistar and it was fun and all, but he's much like Pantheon. Great on paper, cool ganks but that's just about all. I have a blast when I gank and my laners aren't the worst players in the universe, however that is typically not the case.

Alistar will get his own section and so will Wukong in the future. Nasus is included because I went on a kick with him for a while and that's over with, he's really bad. Singed is actually a legit jungler and can do well.
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iHades | February 18, 2012 10:34am
Amazing Guide, but I feel like you miss the sections for some common junglers. For example, Wukong is not even in your niche-section, although he's pretty solid in the jungle.
I'm sad that you refused to add Pantheon, because his ganks are extremely potent and sustain is not really an issue with Cloth 5 and normal masteries.
Furthermore, I don't see why you aren't including a full chapter for Alistar, he's such an awesome jungler and his ganks are absolute god-tier, not to mention the utility and versatility he brings to a team, he's able to do it all, AP-Carry, Off-Tank, Tanky-AP, Support ... (etc.)

I feel a little sad inside that you included such joke junglers as Nasus and Singed and left out these mentioned above. As you stated, you don't really like tier-lists, but I feel like even Twisted Fate or Ezreal are better junglers than Nasus and Singed, because they do far far far (...) better in top lane.

Overall, I like your guides and work, but I just wanted to note that you're missing some really good ones.
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Andele3025 (2) | February 18, 2012 8:52am
Are Leona and Nautilus on the line? You can rate them about the same since they basicly are the same thing, so epic ganks and powerhouse tanks.
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Hahano (73) | February 15, 2012 10:44am
@Staub: I got ANNIHILATED as Udyr when I started him. There's only 3 characters I've played that I have gotten just trashed on for a while and they're Udyr, Lee Sin and Shyvana. They're extremely strong characters that require a lot of skill to wield properly. Udyr really forces positioning. Thanks for the comments and traffic again!
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Staub (4) | February 14, 2012 11:03am
This guide is my main reference for junglers I never touched or just to look up how my favourites fare in the eyes of Hahano the king of the jungle :P
I redirect anyone that asks to this guide as it explains the jungler a lot better and so reliably then I ever could.

Apart from the generally awesomeness of your guide I especially love what you wrote about Udyr in the Recommendation section.
I bought and played Udyr early in my LoL career resulting in a streak of depressingly bad games. Now after around 800 educating wins and losses I reburied him from my dusty once played never tried again champion corner and could put my gained experience to use resulting in some beautiful games
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powerwash | February 14, 2012 5:35am
Really nice guide! If it werent for this I dont know what I would do!
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BlackIntent (1) | February 13, 2012 10:00am
Amazing guide! 1+ of course; so much detail and thought. One thing I'd like to point out it the absence of Jax on your list.
Did you not realize that the god of weapon mastery and jumping/springing death could jungle?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I rarely see him jungling and I don't understand why; since his remake he has some of the easiest routes and fastest jungle times.
Give me some input and keep up the good work!

EDIT: Didn't realize that a bunch of people had already asked you about this. Nice to see I'm not the only one who keeps good ole' Jax in mind.
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Hahano (73) | February 12, 2012 8:46am
@Nerun: List of people to play. I just finished up with about 15 games of Jax. I have a lot of characters to play and do videos for and I put a list in one of the earlier pages.
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Nerun (27) | February 12, 2012 8:20am
You have to update that shaco no longer has the easy buffs as before :P

And what do you mean when you say Yorick is on the list?
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Errial | February 11, 2012 10:21am
Great guide! Alot of information, that really helped me how to use Lee Sin in jungle, Keep the good work up!
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Hahano (73) | February 10, 2012 1:21pm
@Dyoh: Jax is on the list! I might make an event where I will stream play him live and then do the article on him afterward. Would anyone be interested in watching something like that?

@Rect: I'm having a guest do an Eve section. They have not finished yet and reported back!
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Rect | February 10, 2012 9:32am
make guide to eve plox
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Dyoh | February 10, 2012 5:42am
First off, very well done with this guide, your rage is beyond our control.

I'd love to know your opinion on jungle Jax, I jungle him and in my opinion he is pretty decent...if not more :D.

P.S. I'm sorry if somebody already asked for it, atm I really don't feel like going through so many pages of comments... :)
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timesource1 (1) | February 8, 2012 4:29pm
Because of you, i wanna try jungling XD I prefer the comforts of laning... but then again it sounds like fun to jungle :D
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Hahano (73) | February 7, 2012 2:12pm
@ Doom the 3rd: My guide is banned in most high ELO matches.

@LegitCactus: I'll be doing poppy.....sometime. I'm pretty busy with the hundred other things I'm managing, so I'll let you know when it's possible.

@Angus Mackenzie: Thanks for the kind words, it is a lot of work and I'm glad you appreciate it. Keep checking it out, watch my stream, read my articles and provide feedback! My new site, www.skillshotpro.com, has a lot more articles and depth as well. I want to get the word out any way I can, so if you like my work, tell someone about it!

Thanks to everyone who continues to read and check these guides, as well as the newcomers. You're what makes this possible, and I love you.

-Hahano
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Angus Mackenzie (7) | February 7, 2012 7:17am
+1! Jesus Christ man...there were a few tiny things I disagreed with, Sona? Dude powwwwwer juuunglerrrr! But, besides those obvious mistakes, just wow...the amount of work you have put into this guide is amazing and I really appreciate it. I ran through it real quick but did stop and watch that "A lot of work video" and was stunned at the amount of dedication. It is people like you that make me absolutely rage at the morons in this game that haven't a clue. I have yet another link I can rage at people in chat when they charge into lane from the river bush and die while I am pinned behind my tower at 200 hp and are like "WTF Soraka! I was Ganking!" No but for real it is greatly appreciated. Please keep up the good work!
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LegitCactus | February 6, 2012 9:55pm
Hey, just wanted to say this is a great guide and great information on all the junglers, but have you ever thought of poppy jungle? I've been doing it a lot recently starting with a cloth armor into madreds razor into boots into sheen with finishing up boots then onto wriggles, going into tri force, and I do very well with it, I'm level 30 with a 1471 rating in ranked even though I haven't used it in ranked yet, but it works well with her w's passive and her q to nuke the buff creeps. It is also a lot of fun and shes such a great ganker but preferably with red though as I find that I need a slow most of the time. I might try taking exhaust instead of flash though. But I was just wondering if you could test it out and tell me what you think of poppy as jungle.
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Doom the 3rd | February 6, 2012 5:43pm
I officially want to call this guide OP!!!!!! I mean like really OP, like the type you have to ban ALL the time in ranked games!!! An OP +1 for you
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Elanstehname | February 6, 2012 5:37pm
Thanks for the help andele, and hahano i will definitely check out your guide.
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Hahano (73) | February 6, 2012 9:55am
@Elanstehname: I have an entire counter jungling section in my 202 guide. I will be updating it soon enough as well, but the information there still holds true.
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Andele3025 (2) | February 6, 2012 7:30am

Wonderful guide, I was just wondering, i play jungle quite often and I can never successfully counter jungle, except for taking blue at the beginning with my team. I tend to play Udyr and Riven a lot and I need help on the counter jungling, because I find I get really annoyed by it, then I might annoy other junglers. Any help would be greatly appreciated. =)


Counterjungling requires wards, knowledge of jungle clear time and position of the enemy jungler... and luck that his team doesnt get on your tail, like using olafs axe trough red buff wall to pull him on the other side (between red and dragon/baron wall) leaving the ranged ones behind etc.
Udyr isnt really great at counterjungling buffs and duo golem, but taking the enenmy wraiths and wolf camp is always great. Overall trying to be at enemy buffs at 2~ and 7~ min is kinda the biggest thing you can try, but if your playing shaco, lee sin, master yi or nunu and got the tools/boxes/wards preped, you can basicly walk inside the enemy jungle with no risk.
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Nekiteti | February 5, 2012 3:49am
Very Nice and funny to read^^
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Elanstehname | February 4, 2012 3:18pm
Wonderful guide, I was just wondering, i play jungle quite often and I can never successfully counter jungle, except for taking blue at the beginning with my team. I tend to play Udyr and Riven a lot and I need help on the counter jungling, because I find I get really annoyed by it, then I might annoy other junglers. Any help would be greatly appreciated. =)
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PsiGuard (880) | February 4, 2012 12:08am
Drummer wrote:

Early game, with cloth armor and pots, poppy jungles the same speed as kayle, with about the same amount of ending health.

Somehow I doubt it.
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DarkSideCreo | February 4, 2012 12:01am
Just had 2 great games playing Jax as a jungler. 11-2 in the first one, and 18-8 in the second one. i start with scepeter and finish the initial route quite fast and easy, with enough health to gank if there is an opportunity for it. Really enjoy playing a jungler now :D thanks for all the advise and info in your guide.
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Drummer (1) | February 3, 2012 10:11am
Consider adding poppy and/or jax to the list.

Early game, with cloth armor and pots, poppy jungles the same speed as kayle, with about the same amount of ending health. Her ganks are usually difficult, but work when the enemy doesnt expect it.

Jax has an even faster and more sustained jungle than kayle and poppy. He is a great ganker with his newley refined counter strike, and can gank relatively early.

+1
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Needlous (20) | February 3, 2012 9:08am
Volibear, if built right, is bit better late game than u rated him IMO, but w/e.
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DarkSideCreo | February 3, 2012 2:02am
Alright, got you) hopefully you'll have a bit of time to try his jungling ability, i quite like the new jax (especially after recent buff), and would love to hear an experienced jungler's opinion. I wanted to try jungling with him since the remade jax spotlight, his counter strike is pretty awesome for early dmg reduction and aoe dmg as well.
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Hahano (73) | February 3, 2012 12:16am
@DarkSideCreo: Jax is left out because he's new to the jungle and I haven't played him. See one of my prior posts for a listing of who all I have to play still.
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DarkSideCreo | February 2, 2012 9:16pm
Tons of useful info for me, as I am just starting to get into jungling, collecting runes atm. One question - why is Jax left out? I have tried to jungle with him few times, jungling speed is quite good, i take a scepeter and have all the sustain i need, plus the ganks are also alright with leap strike/stun combo. Is there a reason he's out of this guide? Thanks!
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Andele3025 (2) | January 31, 2012 6:21am
Hahano wrote:

To throw my opinion on Cho into the fire: I think a bruiser better suits the jungle. It's a build that helps early tankiness, which is pretty necessary. The extra vorpal damage doesn't matter with malady because if you clear quick and die quick, it's pointless, so Wit's is better in that respect. If you're talking lane Cho, I have no opinion.


Well im talking about lane and in general about cho (even trough i guess you could pull off ap/tank cho in the jungle by delaying your build a bit for a HoG in addition to the philo stone) and wits will maybe give you the 1/20 save with 10 hp, malady will let you get a enemy faster and increases damage your spikes and your allies deal... overall as a item i see malady being better, but hey if someone wants additional mr for the cost of less damage, sure go for it...

Again all of this is like the debate if morde is better in mid (for me preferred lane for morde) or top lane (where i eat him with ap soraka)...
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Finale (2) | January 31, 2012 5:20am
Simply amazing, its like a let-you-know-all-basic with some nice higher level tricks and tips.

Nice job, I give you a +1
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Hahano (73) | January 30, 2012 7:14pm
To throw my opinion on Cho into the fire: I think a bruiser better suits the jungle. It's a build that helps early tankiness, which is pretty necessary. The extra vorpal damage doesn't matter with malady because if you clear quick and die quick, it's pointless, so Wit's is better in that respect. If you're talking lane Cho, I have no opinion.
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Andele3025 (2) | January 30, 2012 3:26pm
NicknameMy wrote:

There are many points for that.
  • Reliable Damage.
    Rupture is a very unreliable Damage source. If you don't hit it has AP-Cho, you nearly did nothing. Otherwise AS-Cho can still attack and deal the damage. And that is called sustained damage.
  • If you really think Hourglass Cho will save anyone, you are very wrong. An AD-Carry can then just target the enemys and you can't do anything against that. You will be just out of the fight.
  • AS-Cho is much tankier than AP-Cho. Just compare Warmog's Armor to Rod of Ages. Also, the calculation to Madred's Bloodrazor is totally wrong. Even if s.b. gets Madred's Bloodrazor, he has still no magicpen(except kog, which dies instantly from cho anyway..). So you actually deal 1% or even less of the enemy Health per hit. That is very inefficient. BTW: Riot wants to buff/rework Madred's Bloodrazor.
  • For a cheaper build, more tankyness and more reliable damage? Yes, please.
  • Malady vs Wit's End
    • Defense: Wit's End totally wins. Defense is still the most important on Cho.
    • Attackspeed: Malady wins slightly.
    • Damage effects: They are pretty even.
    • AP: Malady wins, but who cares on cho about AP...

BTW: The Mres is 180+

Build Cho:



1) True that rupture is 500 damage missed, but in terms of teamfight damage the additional 150 damage on vorpals more than makes up for the missing single target damage
2) Hourglass + Cho size + Carry that can position behind you = massive panic on enemy ad carry since they cant shoot at your carry and you get 2 sec off your cooldowns.
3) No he isnt since warmogs bonus is destroyed by 1 deathfire shot if the char has 200+ap (rabadons, deathfire and Sorc Boots are much easier to get than warmogs, forn and 4 stacked wits) and your damage dealt is pittyful... yay i do 320 damage to one targer (30~ to the ones behind) with aa before application of resistances once pre second...
4) Cheaper build, more single target damage, weakness to kiting, no need to land skillshots and mini bursts based on lucky crits - with hotshot;
your build is just a disgrace for cho that if i may note is only 1k cheaper and with 1300 more effective hp for 60 ad and 20 mr that is dependant on if your attacking...
"My" is ability placement dependant, high burst while still dealing at least 120 aoe damage on aa post resistance calculation with 7.7k effective hp and a panic button
5) Malady vs Wit's End
- post resistance calculation Malady deals 10~ damage pre hit, Wit's End 20
- Wit's End gives you magic resistance but 40% of it is unreliable, but still nice vs sustained damage casters
- Malady is cheaper, gives 10% more AS and it also shreds mr what is increasing not only your but also your allies damage
- Try it with a friend, cho with just malady will kill a cho with wits end from just aa...

BTE the mres is 161 from pure build but i guess 180 with runes + masteries 200 with wits stacks.
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NicknameMy (153) | January 30, 2012 8:28am
There are many points for that.
  • Reliable Damage.
    Rupture is a very unreliable Damage source. If you don't hit it has AP-Cho, you nearly did nothing. Otherwise AS-Cho can still attack and deal the damage. And that is called sustained damage.
  • If you really think Hourglass Cho will save anyone, you are very wrong. An AD-Carry can then just target the enemys and you can't do anything against that. You will be just out of the fight.
  • AS-Cho is much tankier than AP-Cho. Just compare Warmog's Armor to Rod of Ages. Also, the calculation to Madred's Bloodrazor is totally wrong. Even if s.b. gets Madred's Bloodrazor, he has still no magicpen(except kog, which dies instantly from cho anyway..). So you actually deal 1% or even less of the enemy Health per hit. That is very inefficient. BTW: Riot wants to buff/rework Madred's Bloodrazor.
  • For a cheaper build, more tankyness and more reliable damage? Yes, please.
  • Malady vs Wit's End
    • Defense: Wit's End totally wins. Defense is still the most important on Cho.
    • Attackspeed: Malady wins slightly.
    • Damage effects: They are pretty even.
    • AP: Malady wins, but who cares on cho about AP...

BTW: The Mres is 180+

Build Cho:
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Andele3025 (2) | January 29, 2012 2:08pm
NicknameMy wrote:

Did you slept for the last months or what? Didn't you watch the big tournaments with Hotshot's AS-Cho? It is simple, get boots, Frozen Heart and FoN, then build Wit's, Atma's and Trinity Force/Warmog's armor. You could also fit in an early RoA.


Yeah, i know that hotshot builds that on cho... he also builds the same sodding items on every champion he plays... Check his profile (if im not mistaken he had that build on sodding Twitch!).
Good Hands and Mastermind are and always will be the best masteries unless they include something like damage reflection from all sources or reduction of flash cd to 100...

PsiGuard wrote:

Despite what I just said, I will concur that bruiser Cho' is the most effective way to play him. It's not impossible to do well with a tanky AP build, but bruiser is more effective. And Wit's End is superior to Malady by a long shot.

High cooldowns, eh? Guess what doesn't have a high cooldown? Vorpal Spikes! Cho's AP ratios are actually not that great when you look at how long you have to wait in between spell uses. Bruiser Cho' is useful for 100% of the fight, is TANKIER than AP (even tanky AP, like RoA/abyssal) and deals more SUSTAINED damage. The only thing you lose is your super-high kill-the-squishy burst, but that's not Cho's job anyway. Top lane and jungle are where most of the tankiness of your team is supposed to come from. AP mids are perfectly capable of providing the right amount of burst for the team.

And if you think bruiser Cho' deals mediocre damage, you really haven't played him.

Honestly, if I were to play AP Cho again, I'd probably do it in mid. Maybe top against the right matchup. Never in jungle. I probably won't play him AP anymore though.


Actually in terms of real sustained damage, ap cho wins, in tankyness, same thing, its only that bruiser is mixed damage thus making him a bit harder to counter...
(My typical Cho itemization - RoA, FrozenH, FoN, Hourglass, Abyss/Qss and Mercury ~240 armor and ~210 mr with a 500 hp boost with 2 sec golden statue of tanking - people cant click on you or on anything behind you and 180~240 ap

In 1 second thats around 1.7k with just spells on base resistances... and his auto attacks deal 150 aoe damage from vorpals not 150 to one target in combination with wits and ap from trinity... = non tank or atmogs ***** instantly dead, kinda stopped by missing rupture or banshee

(HotshotGG typical - Wits, FrozenH, Fon, Trnity, Atmas and Zerks ~230 armor and ~140 mr (~160 conditional) with a 250 hp boost, 190 damage on aa after every cast, and a bonus of 100 attack damage and 33-37%crit (ok ~400 damage crits hurt but still)...

In 5 seconds thats around 2.1k with his full spell combo and auto attacking all the time on base resistances = medicore/bruiser threat to everything that cant lock/cc him down or kite him

= only reason he goes that is ~2k cheaper build with more single target damage.
Oh and since vorpals apply last, while malady deals only half magic damage on attacks, the shred and 10$ more AS make it superior - also they increase the damage of vorpals by 7.

Building warmogs on cho is a death wish, even with over 100 mr one DFG hit/carry with last slot madreds - you dont get cheese with your w(h)ine.

Please in the future do theorycrafting/5th grade elementary school math before making statements about what kind of cho is better (first champ i played, first i got, my main and the most epic thing in the league, sorry Hahano - i dont see udyr or brolaf being more epic than cho) ~ You guys just got served by a gentleman tyranid user, boo-yah!
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LoL-Guides1 (2) | January 29, 2012 11:32am
Great information you posted there. Shaco is my favorite jungler. :)

Nice guide!
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Hahano (73) | January 29, 2012 8:57am
@PsiGuard: I think Cho's a fun jungler, I wouldn't mind playing him more. He's fine for the right matchups on top and in mid.

@NicknameMy: You won't get kited. You're not Olaf. People don't see Cho'Gath and run for their lives, his job is to shred people coming at his carries. If you're trying to kill his team, he'll take you down and you can't kite and focus at the same time. I think AP quints are there to help clear the jungle better and are probably best in slot for Cho? Not like you'd run ArP or something, though you could.

@Temzilla: I might try it out if I get through the other videos alive, thanks for the layout.

@S_w_a_g: To be honest, I really wouldn't like to learn Evelynn. I remember the days of her ruining games and wouldn't like to bring them back, not to mention I hate characters based around gimmicks ( Shaco, Twitch, Evelynn)

@whysowserious: Yi is like Shaco's backdoor buddy, Rammus is like Shaco's ganking equivalent. If you want to replicate a strong early presence, play Rammus, Maokai, Lee Sin or Riven. If you want to replicate a strong, squishy AD presence try out Xin Zhao, Tryndamere or Master Yi.
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whysowserious | January 29, 2012 7:35am
I dunno which jungler to try out next, I'm great with shaco and consider him as my main jungler, but I don't know what to do next. Any suggestions for a shaco-like jungler? I tried Rammus and Yi, liked Rammus quite well. Was thinking about Riven and Lee sin and perhaps even Xin Zhao. PM me please!

cheers
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S_w_a_g (3) | January 29, 2012 12:17am
this is a great idea for jungling but i noticed you dont have evelynn, if you want to learn how to play eve jungle successfully check out my build below and tell me what you think thanks
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NicknameMy (153) | January 28, 2012 3:02pm
Well, I build FH for more utility, rushing an early glacial most of the time. Also with a FoN and a final Warmog's you have a very high EHP. And now calculate your ultimate and Atma's into this.
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Temzilla (211) | January 28, 2012 2:55pm
NicknameMy wrote:

Have fun against kiters.^^

I play him more defensly, I also use the nice scaling of Juggernaut with his ulti. And Initiator + Enlightenment are 2 of the best masteries in the game atm.

And I still deal enough damage.

And finally, AP-Quints? Nah...


Replace with swiftness quints.

I build randuin's on brusier Cho, GG kiters.
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NicknameMy (153) | January 28, 2012 2:45pm
Have fun against kiters.^^

I play him more defensly, I also use the nice scaling of Juggernaut with his ulti. And Initiator + Enlightenment are 2 of the best masteries in the game atm.

And I still deal enough damage.

And finally, AP-Quints? Nah...
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Temzilla (211) | January 28, 2012 2:41pm
PsiGuard wrote:

I don't go 21 in defense.... O.o


If you were going to play Bruiser Cho, You would want to go 15-15-0 or 21-9-0.

Nick is just silly.
Masteries
1/5
3/5
4/1
4/1
1/1
1/5
3/1
3/1
1/
2/5
2/1
4/1
1/1
Runes

Greater Quintessence of Ability Power
3

Greater Mark of Attack Speed
9

Greater Seal of Armor
9

Greater Glyph of Magic Resist
9

Real stronk setup.
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NicknameMy (153) | January 28, 2012 2:39pm
Well, I think, Utility Tree is also ****, because there are also some very unusefull things:
Greed
Transmutation
Wealth
Awareness
Sage

You have to pick up too much **** to get the best...

And finally, the offense, well, why offense on cho anyway?
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PsiGuard (880) | January 28, 2012 2:36pm
I don't go 21 in defense.... O.o
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NicknameMy (153) | January 28, 2012 2:34pm
Well, but what get instead? Vigor , Honor Guard and Evasion are all 3 ****! If you go 21 in defense you automatically pick MS.
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PsiGuard (880) | January 28, 2012 2:23pm
NicknameMy wrote:

You could also fit in an early RoA.

Please don't.

Also Nickname, try not to assume that everyone uses the exact same setup as you do. I personally don't get 3% MS from the defense tree. I'm sure there are Cho' players that use quints other than MS.

Despite what I just said, I will concur that bruiser Cho' is the most effective way to play him. It's not impossible to do well with a tanky AP build, but bruiser is more effective. And Wit's End is superior to Malady by a long shot.

Andele3025 wrote:
Both lane and jungle cho have 2 major problems, good rupture placement and high cooldowns (if he goes bruiser version its a waste of his 0.7 ap ratios and true damage for a medicore damage tank instead of bursty terror machine.

Good rupture placement is a micro issue, not a problem with the champion. Champs with skillshots are not inherently worse than others, just more difficult. If Cho's hard CC was perfectly reliable, he'd be too strong.

High cooldowns, eh? Guess what doesn't have a high cooldown? Vorpal Spikes! Cho's AP ratios are actually not that great when you look at how long you have to wait in between spell uses. Bruiser Cho' is useful for 100% of the fight, is TANKIER than AP (even tanky AP, like RoA/abyssal) and deals more SUSTAINED damage. The only thing you lose is your super-high kill-the-squishy burst, but that's not Cho's job anyway. Top lane and jungle are where most of the tankiness of your team is supposed to come from. AP mids are perfectly capable of providing the right amount of burst for the team.

And if you think bruiser Cho' deals mediocre damage, you really haven't played him.

Honestly, if I were to play AP Cho again, I'd probably do it in mid. Maybe top against the right matchup. Never in jungle. I probably won't play him AP anymore though.
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NicknameMy (153) | January 28, 2012 2:14pm
Did you slept for the last months or what? Didn't you watch the big tournaments with Hotshot's AS-Cho? It is simple, get boots, Frozen Heart and FoN, then build Wit's, Atma's and Trinity Force/Warmog's armor. You could also fit in an early RoA.

More about this: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/bruisergath-lane-and-jungle-147878
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Andele3025 (2) | January 28, 2012 1:19pm
NicknameMy wrote:

Actually, any Cho gets as reds because they fit best to Wit's End Cho.

And any Cho gets Movement Speed Quints.

And any Cho gets the 3% MS from the defense tree.

Also Cho gets 2% from Utility.

Cho can start jungling with Boots of Speed and have then 400 MS.

Cho is nearly a god tier jungler atm. But he is even better at lane.


Compare Olaf to Mundo:

Diffculty: Mundo is definitly lower

Speed: Same

Sustainability: Better, because he doesn't rely on blue buff.

Ganking: Better, he deals way more damage. And post 6 he can just dive anyone.

Recover/Deflect: Better, because mundo has lifesteal with Vampiric Scepter + ad-steroid with that he can outdamage and outsustain anyone. Also after his initial jungling he will stay at high health.

Counter Jungle: Better, Mundo deals more damage and can stay better to the target.

Post Jungling: Olaf wins, but Mundo with 3 Warmog's can also be pretty unbeatable.


Wit's end is sub par if you want attack speed with on hit (get Malady) if you want more damage or mr get abyss or force of nature, thus AP GM tyranid with 240 armor and 210 mr gains more from magic pen.
I take a hp quint for cho for a better early game, i get 2%ms from utility since i go 9/0/21 for lower cd on Teleport and Flash. Both lane and jungle cho have 2 major problems, good rupture placement and high cooldowns (if he goes bruiser version its a waste of his 0.7 ap ratios and true damage for a medicore damage tank instead of bursty terror machine.

Olaf doesnt need blue if he maxes W for a free vamp scepter and starts on red buff for a level 2 gank and even then he is faster because of his passive and axe, pre 6 ganks are worse because olafs axe passes trough units, cleavers just hit the first target, post 6 mundo is probably better because of massive regen, deflection depends on where they are, overall because of their 50%hp jungle they are 1 shot by shaco or lee sin...

Mundo only clears small camps faster, but ability to kill someone in the enemy jungle or take their buffs is pretty low.

Post Jungling - mundo goes where he pleases but noone is stupid enough to chase or try and kill him unless he is the last thing standing or on 3 hp...
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Hahano (73) | January 28, 2012 6:56am
@Nikodimishe: I forgot about Cho. He does has auto-attack AoE.

@Nickname: I'll play him eventually. I won't say anything more about him until then as it's only speculation. There's a few in front of him, not to mention the others I still have.

This is my current list in no particular order:
  • Sejuani (played, need to write her up)
  • Alistar (played, need to write it up)
  • Yorick (very requested)
  • Fiddlesticks (need video)
  • Gangplank (need video)
  • Jarvan (in the process of playing)
  • Master Yi (need video)
  • Nasus (likely won't play more of him)
  • Olaf (need video)
  • Shaco (need video)
  • Shyvana (need video)
  • Tryndamere (need video)
  • Udyr (need video)
  • Volibear (need video)
  • Warwick (need video)
  • Xin Zhao (need video)
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NicknameMy (153) | January 28, 2012 4:43am
Actually, any Cho gets as reds because they fit best to Wit's End Cho.

And any Cho gets Movement Speed Quints.

And any Cho gets the 3% MS from the defense tree.

Also Cho gets 2% from Utility.

Cho can start jungling with Boots of Speed and have then 400 MS.

Cho is nearly a god tier jungler atm. But he is even better at lane.


Compare Olaf to Mundo:

Diffculty: Mundo is definitly lower

Speed: Same

Sustainability: Better, because he doesn't rely on blue buff.

Ganking: Better, he deals way more damage. And post 6 he can just dive anyone.

Recover/Deflect: Better, because mundo has lifesteal with Vampiric Scepter + ad-steroid with that he can outdamage and outsustain anyone. Also after his initial jungling he will stay at high health.

Counter Jungle: Better, Mundo deals more damage and can stay better to the target.

Post Jungling: Olaf wins, but Mundo with 3 Warmog's can also be pretty unbeatable.
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Andele3025 (2) | January 28, 2012 2:30am

Malphite is the only jungler to have an AoE on his auto attack through Brutal Strikes. Skarner and Udyr have to wait a few seconds for that kind of perk, so his clear speed is silly.

what about cho'gath?

Udyrs and Skarner's abilites hit hard enough and are on low enough cooldowns that Malaphites 20 aoe damage is pretty low.
Cho needs to rune for attack speed to be faster and his natural movemet speed is quite low (he can go any item first trough and give first blue away if you chose to slow your jungle time by 40~ seconds), speed isnt only about clear time, its also how much a champion can maneuver/be flexible in the jungle (cho is quite clunky because of his speed - needing boots 3 or movemet speed quints+2% mastery just to get the movement of chasers like udyr or olaf).
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Nikodimishe | January 28, 2012 2:05am
Malphite is the only jungler to have an AoE on his auto attack through Brutal Strikes. Skarner and Udyr have to wait a few seconds for that kind of perk, so his clear speed is silly.

what about cho'gath?
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Hahano (73) | January 27, 2012 4:00pm
@NicknameMy: I might look at Mundo, but he doesn't have anything to offer a team except a body. Many of the good junglers provide utility even if they're not ahead, so criteria of "they're good when fed" is moot.

If Olaf is maxing Undertow, he needs blue. If you're maxing like Vicious Strikes I can see not needing it, but also a way more dangerous and less sustained jungle. His ganks would be even worse because his axe would hit for less and he wouldn't have as much damage to a gank. I would put him with Master Yi without the Undertow
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NicknameMy (153) | January 27, 2012 8:08am
I think you should take a deeper look into Dr. Mundo. His recent buffs made his jungle sustained and supremly fast. He actually snowballs very hard in the jungle and if something is terrible than it is a fed Dr. Mundo. Completle unkillable with multiple Warmog's Armor or very deadly with a CDR build. But for that, his jungle is as risky as Olaf's.

On the other side, instead of Olaf, he doesn't need blue buff and can go for the red route, which is also faster. He can also give the first blue to mid so mid will have a heavy boost at earlygame. His ganks are, well, only 3 points pre 6, 6 poinst post 6, but for that, he has his speed.

And because of Dr. Mundo's high damage steroids and his ridiculous Infected Cleaver he can battle nearly any other jungle if he isn't at low HP. But if he is at low HP, Masochism deals even more damage.
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HowardDeanFan | January 26, 2012 5:53pm
Just a question. Would you ever be interested in trying a Jungle Poppy?
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Acc3pT | January 25, 2012 4:16am
Great guide and a must-read for jungle beginners. My first jungle experience came from Udyr, I was quite disappointed at first but since then I think I am jungling in like 70% of all games I do. Not only that jungle requires higher skill cap than laning but then, when you actually lane it gives you the insight of what you need to do to prep your lane for successful gank. And I dare to say that happens more times than not.

And yeah :D ganking as udyr is really about perfect timing, you pictured it perfectly by saying its a screaming man running around doing nothing :) They simply can /wave and run away especially very early before you get yourself boots. But when lane initiates and you catch their backs, game over for them.

But lately I've been playing Trundle as I think he's very underplayed at the moment. And I love it. Pillar in yo face! Never gets old.
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Chemicalstorm (1) | January 24, 2012 7:44am
Amazing guide I really loved the fact you put Shen in here he is my favorite champ and I do jungle him a little bit here and there.
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Andele3025 (2) | January 24, 2012 3:35am
I wont argue with that because anything less than those 2 sharing the place of best skin in game anything less would be uncivilized, BROLAF = definition of Bad*** and Awesome, GM CHO = definition of EPIC and FABULOUS!
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Hahano (73) | January 23, 2012 9:40am
@Andele: Thanks for your continued input, I have learned from you as well and persistence by members such as yourself lead to the continual improvement of this guide. With that out of the way...

BROLAF IS WAY BETTER THAN GENTLEMAN CHO!!!!!!!!!!!(begin flame war)
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Andele3025 (2) | January 23, 2012 6:10am
Sorry for having so many complains, but i just noticed (Br)Olafs Pros, since you mentioned the best skin in game, you are missing the most profound, superior and overall awesome lovely skin in game, and that its owner is a giant freaking tyranid/zergling that has hellspikes (what is about as bad*** as a viking that throws axes and note - i overcame the urge to say gm cho is the best skin) with lore that states he is probably the strongest being in the league (or on par with xerath) since its his hobby.

Maybe Shacos snowballing may not really be snowballing, since even with a full item build he maybe deals 50 dps more... AP ww has probably the same amount of snowball as him; Fiddle aint so bad late game, 2 pretty long cc make him a strong addition to teamfights especially if you have a assassin, in combination to the fact that teams often focus him before the ad carry, with roa, rylai, abyss and hourglass, he can act as a nice offtank while still melting things around him, but true he aint the fear monster of the jungle he used to be.

And overall thanks a lot for the guide, there were a load of things i wouldn't have found out if it weren't for it (like malphite actually being that fast in the new jungle, how much alistar hurts udyr, rammus pre burush powerball load, etc). All luck and id love to see it being up on the official lol site as the link what to read for jungling (or maybe a special place on the teen hormone supported summoner showcase that only rare people watch for the epic fan art *facepalm for the internet*).
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Hahano (73) | January 22, 2012 1:00pm
@Andele: Appreciate it, broski! Finishing that up today, I have 8 left to do.
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Andele3025 (2) | January 22, 2012 8:21am
Hmmm, i just noticed the snowballing stats, some may not be really true.
OFC i start with my favourite Gentleman Tryranid, his itemization always unproportionally increases his burst (its around 1k~ when he finishes rod of ages, 1,4~ with Hourglass, 1,7k~ with Abyss) and sustained vorpals damage;

Trundle snowballs mostly with enemy ad and how fast he can get trinity force/sheen;

Nyandalees Zaunian soul brother (aka Warwick's apprentice, cola spill guy or pink fart) doesnt really snowball, his levels are most of his damage, he always gets to the point of being the most annoying thing in game even overshadowing a early game shaco, its just a matter of time;

Last but not least, from the 5 most badass characters in game only the most badass (GM Cho) has ratings, poor Shyvana the half bat/wyvern abortion, Udyr bearmanbirdturtletiger spirit, Brolaf the King of Bromacia and Blood Hunter the Manatee Grandma Lvl11 Elite!
Not pushing you on doing it right away, i just wanna see the snowballing powerhouse champs get their tags.
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Hahano (73) | January 21, 2012 12:15pm
@HoroBoro:
  • I played jungle Kayle and absolutely loved it. I have about 20 games under my belt and she will have a featured article. I hope to have a video up for her today.
  • I put Shaco countering Warwick because WW does not have strong early ganking ability or control. So Shaco can walk all over Warwick's team, leaving him to provide advantage another jungler might be able to curtail.
  • Tiger Udyr was included and deleted. Pheonix is far and above better in the new jungle and people have realized that. Tiger Udyr was much more viable previously, however has slowed down from the Phoenix counterpart. Even if he may still exist, Udyr is Udyr. I am reworking the wording on it to include both as I felt it no longer deserved separate chapters.

@Proptic: Jax and Sejuani are on the list. I only have so much time and don't feel comfortable releasing half-***ed information.
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Proptic | January 21, 2012 11:06am
EPIC, Did you try Jax?
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HoroBoro | January 21, 2012 8:03am
Great guide, just a few questions/suggestions for improvements if you have the time.

First I want to echo everyone else who've suggested Kayle. Her clear time is amazing, her slow is not to be underestimated, and she is one of the only (if not the only) ranged jungles. Her with red buff is a real terror. Only flaw is gold starved, but the same could be said about Yi, Olaf, Shy, Nasus, Tyrn, Xin etc.

Second, I find that Shaco is not a great counter to WW. Because Shaco needs that red, WW is just fine invading, especially after level 6. If he invades, just a single ward at your red can shut him down entirely. If he tries to counter, attention is entirely on him. That's the last thing a sneaky Shaco wants. Either way, the first encounter is to your advantage. You catch him with his pants down, or steal some of his creeps. Worse thing happens is you pop a box, and force top, bot or mid to chase you out causing them to lose lane time. Shaco cannot 1v1 WW at any level.

Finally, why you haven't you included Tiger Udyr? Sure he gives up faster clears (by a small bit of time), but he trades that for much stronger ganks (I'm sure you know the 2 tiger proc trick), and a better mid-late game. Early-mid team-fights suffers a bit, but it's an alternative if you expect your lanes to be pushed.
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dicate | January 21, 2012 5:53am
mm great
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Hahano (73) | January 20, 2012 9:06am
@Lingerant: Yea...

@Method: Thanks a lot for the kind words!

@ Konanza: Thanks. We will see if the changes impact him or not. I feel it helps his laning and that's about all.

@Zerpx_DK:
  • Alistar's speed is just fine. It's not "insane", but he can jungle pretty quickly. I have played him a few games and will likely add my synopsis to the fringe or even possibly give him a column.
  • Riven was. I'll have to change that because Sejuani and Kayle bring more ladies to the trees as well.
  • Trundle can absolutely, undoubtedly kill anyone who tries to counter jungle him. If you don't believe it, you are not playing Trundle correct.
  • Tryndamere, among about 15 others, has not been updated for the new jungle and with videos. I will update them when I get a chance to, possibly today.
  • Thanks for the kind words, I am constantly improving and seeking ways to improve this guide. I want to stay at the top and have a reason to!
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Zerpx_DK | January 20, 2012 8:01am
Riven isn't the only female jungler.... Shyvana (female dragon tho).
Trundle cannot kill anyone who tries to counterjungle him (shaco).
Tryndamere you need rating in numbers at start, and is he a snowball or/and farmer? You need a Kog'maw picture, at trynd allies in the team.
Udyr you need rating in numbers aswell as snowball and/or farmer.
Warwick you need rating in numbers aswell as snowball and/or farmer.
Xin Zhao you need rating in numbers aswell as snowball and/or farmer.

Those a "failures" i will point out just for making you guide better, aint needed.
I just want to help and i hope you would appreciate it :)
Otherwise GREAT guide :)
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Zerpx_DK | January 20, 2012 6:50am
Just a hint: If you play Alistar right. His jungling speed is insane! Try him out.
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Konanza (1) | January 19, 2012 10:05pm
Awesome guide, alot of details and easily, one of the best guides here in Mobafire.
Now that Volibear, thanks to his Q buff last patch, do you think he is a little more viable?
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Method (2) | January 18, 2012 6:27am
Hey man,

this guide is the most inspiring piece of jungeling art I have yet encountered and was the reason for me to discover mobafire and rethinking some view on certain champs I had before. Reading both of your guides regularly from now on including the comments section as there is so much food for my thoughts.

Thank you very much. This guide is king of the hill for a reason!
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Econetics (1) | January 18, 2012 4:08am
I just wanted to let you know that after a week of following your guides for jungling i had a 5 game win streak in ranked 1700 elo games as skarner. I learned so much. Thank you :)
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Lingerant | January 17, 2012 8:35pm
time to add sejuani :D
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Andele3025 (2) | January 17, 2012 3:54pm
@Hahano Well i did take it in consideration when i said Malph may be a bit to fast rated (since i went with hp/tanky runes, without barbed armor the first few times i played him as a jungler (so most runes were wrong and a few masteries missing).

Still thinking Singed is to high on the late game because a) his ability to storm in first without initation cc is reduced b) a very strong part of singed is that he gets away with building 2 Rod Of Ages, Boots of Swiftness, Force of Nature and Zhonya's Hourglass, what makes his build kinda gank dependant or constantly held 1 item slower.

Yay for Boil jungle buffs in Sejuani patch (with his second smite nerf), seems like you have "work" to do.

Btw starting boots 2hp 1 mana pot on Tree-dweller Cho i get maybe 50 damage on me (no pot used) but i do go flat armor runes and 3 attack speed marks so the point that everyone gets low on red is invalid, probably same with udyr, didnt play him for a long time...
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wojtas (1) | January 16, 2012 2:05pm
very good guide!!! i really enjoy reading it.
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Antique (2) | January 16, 2012 12:35pm
you mgith aswell consider adding wukong, kinda good, although he has no cc till lvl 6, but is better than warwick before lvl 6, way better than most with red if you ask me.
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Hahano (73) | January 16, 2012 11:35am
@Andele3025: Once my new Malphite video hits, which as soon as youtube clears it, his speed will be going down 1 as well as his sustain. Malphite does get a little low on red buff, but so does everyone except Fiddlesticks. Also, as a general note, clearing and jungling speed are not simply X Character clears in Y time. I judge their ability to clear the jungle given any circumstance. This speed isn't based on a number in a custom game by myself, it is a feeling and observation of how quickly they clear camps in any circumstance. This includes post ganks, low life, low mana, non-optimal rune setups and pre/post item factors.

As for Singed, his late game is very high comparatively. He may not be able to take the punishment a fully farmed top lane Singed can, however he still brings a lot of utility. While he doesn't have the burst or disruption of, say, Cho'Gath, he still has a very solid mid to late game. He can AoE slow a team down which catches many people out of position, not to mention fling people off of his own carries. His ability to keep his team alive while simultaneously disrupting the other one is nearly unmatched.

I keep saying this over and over, Volibear being good would make my life. To use your own words, "he aint really special at anything." Unfortunately, the era of "not special" junglers has passed with the release of Nocturne, Lee Sin, Skarner and the reworkings on Rammus. Junglers are extremely special and powerful right now, so in a position filled with greatness, mediocrity is frowned upon.

I also don't mind any publicity at all. The more youtube views and visits on this site and hopefully to the new site I'm writing for (coming soon) the better.
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Andele3025 (2) | January 16, 2012 1:07am
BTW, total change of opinion on malphite, his speed is higher than chos (but as i said his sustain is still lower unless you build wriggle what shouldn't really count - malph gets low on red buff, cho is never low and doesnt need to start cloth armor for more speed) because I tried him with barbed armor, 2 Hp - 1 armor quints, 4 attackspeed - 5 AD marks and full armor seals and his clear time got down to 3:40~4 min (about 4 min if you went wolf to golem and if you have the +1% movement speed from 2 points into utility).

Singed - i would reduce his late game score, again unless the game goes on for really long or you somehow have epic ganks (or the enemy doesnt have flash) he really is much less use than what his top lane counterpart can do (again same as cho/shyvana/irelia/etc).

And dont smack on voli... the armored bear is a ok jungler its just that he aint really special at anything except having a mini spell smite if he hits stuff around him - he is also of more use as a counterpick for garen, (pre boar patch) riven, trynda or talon on top lane.

BTW I hope you dont mind me telling a few people on cinderhelms live streams (youtube can live stream, i know i was also shocked) about your guides as jungling tips.
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Hahano (73) | January 15, 2012 9:24pm
@FiniteParadox: Reliant on ganks to get a good endgame, is what I should say. She doesn't get a ton of farm in the jungle because even without ganking the jungle doesn't offer great amounts of farm. So in order to have an endgame scenario where she isn't just a spot life-saver with her ultimate (which changes games), you typically need some kills. Not to say she's useless, it's just her ability to do a lot of damage and live to tell about it relies on her getting that early advantage.

@Illbean: Taric being built AD bruiser negates his abilities for the most part. I think he's best to be built with an AP/tanky approach so he can gank a lane and provide a stun, armor shred, AoE damage and heal to the laner there. He is stronger than Sion in his abilities to do that, but Sion has his ultimate that makes AD more viable. If you'd like to show me, send me a PM.

@yoshiro3333: Firstly, the power of smite is buff and jungle security not ability. Having smite secures Baron, Dragon and your larger buffs as well as enables stronger counter jungling. Surge also has a high cooldown, so it won't be as effective, despite its late game power. I think Volibear has a lot of issues, and his primary one being almost all of his DPS comes from melee range. He has one damage skill, and though it does a lot of damage, it is on a really high cooldown. I would love to see him be as strong as the best in the jungle because it would make me happy inside to play him. However, he isn't that great, and that's what it is.
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yoshiro3333 | January 15, 2012 12:47pm
Great guide! i am going to be trying that cho'gath one, because he was my favorite character a while back. I do have a suggestion for you on Volibear to try. I think he does have enough sustainability to not need smite, but take surge in its place. I know what most people are thinking. "What jungler doesn't take smite?"

True, you are losing a very small amount of time on your jungling route. (hardly noticeably in my opinion, because surge does a decent job in its place. Although the weakness to this is having your buffs stolen right from under you.) In place of that slight jungling speed decrease, you can skip the part where you said:

"he is often just a body in a teamfight....Throw all of this in with being able to be kited and lack of escape mechanisms, and you have an ugly champion."

When you combine Volibear's surge, ult, and a ghost on a gank or team fight, the results can be quite devastating. As you said in the guide, his ult is very reliant on his ability to hit people, but when you can constantly catch a person with ghost, and have improved AP and AS from surge, then your ultimate can quite suddenly become extremely threatening without putting any items or effort towards your build and is still amazing in late game.

I do have to say that even with ghost, there are a few things like exhaust that give me a lot of problems, but they don't always shut me completely shut me down.

If anyone can, please help me try this out and give me some feedback, then it would be deeply appreciated! Thanks!

+1 to your guide for awesome detailed jungler speeds and descriptions
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Illbean (1) | January 13, 2012 1:53pm
I must say that i disagree with u about Taric being not so good as a jungler, i've played him some games now and he is rather good actually. Not the best, ofc not... Jst saying that I would like to show you what i can do with Taric Jungle in a Solo Que.

(Playing him as Jungle Bruiser with some AS)


Otherwise, this guide is really awsome. Love your work, keep on doing it, cuz ur good man!
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FiniteParadox (3) | January 12, 2012 6:23pm
Hahano wrote:

@finiteparadox: Jungle Kayle is one I've heard of and seen, but am resistant to try. I really don't like ganking junglers (characters that rely on ganks to even stay in the game) such as Twitch, Pantheon, Riven, Kayle and the list goes on.

Kayle isn't reliant on ganks. She is extremely fast and stays fast all game.

EDIT: I should clarify one thing, she's fairly fast early game and as the game goes on she just gets faster and faster very, very quickly. She clears EVERY non-dragon/baron camp in 2 or 3 seconds WITH or WITHOUT smite later on.
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Andele3025 (2) | January 12, 2012 2:07pm
@Hahano - Yeah, i did play him a bit, but i still dont know how you get him to be faster than cho or have same amount of sustain, a failed gank is much worse for him, he cant get dragon at 6 and has wait times before clearing... sure a small camp pretty fast, but still not as fast as cho, shyvana or udyr can... more like amumu (then again i dont know what runes, skill sequences and masteries you picked so i might be totally wrong, sorry if i am) since 9 and 10 kinda represent "Im a god in that aspect" features, right?
And riven might be a good pick because her ganks are fast and effective, she is a shaco that traded flash for actually being worth something late game with medicore sustain in form of her shield.

Or even better, a unorthodox jungling guide with the champs that can jungle in a at least ok manner while being ultra bad at others or dependent on something...
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Hahano (73) | January 12, 2012 1:34pm
@finiteparadox: Jungle Kayle is one I've heard of and seen, but am resistant to try. I really don't like ganking junglers (characters that rely on ganks to even stay in the game) such as Twitch, Pantheon, Riven, Kayle and the list goes on.
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FiniteParadox (3) | January 12, 2012 2:29am
Couple things. Jungle Kayle. Fast, ganks are decent (range + slow + additional slow with red). (I'd suggest an on-hit build with her, personally, to test out actual viability and not just "can she jungle".) Magic pen marks, armor seals, choice blues, AS Quints. (Others are probably possible, this is just what I used. Works so well.) EWEQ R>E>W=Q (W and Q are situational. Some I max Q, some I max W, I find W to generally be better overall, it gets a LOT more powerful, 200+ heals are nice. I think 21/0/9 or 21/9/0 masteries would be best for her, (not 100% sure, when I went to do this I had the wrong masteries, 0/21/9). I'd grab all the standard AP masteries except Archmage and put Alacrity in its place.

As for the other thing, I tried out Jungle Talon, he's really slow and vulnerable in the jungle.
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jojobamtb1 | January 11, 2012 4:46pm
Best Pros/Cons i ever see... Thx
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Hahano (73) | January 11, 2012 4:42pm
@Andele3025: Have you played Malphite? Because I've played both and Malphite is ridiculously fast, while Cho is fast with mana. Malphite takes almost no mana and his shield makes him really sustained. I think Cho'Gath is a better jungler, but that doesn't come into consideration when thinking about speed.
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Andele3025 (2) | January 11, 2012 2:45pm
Wait, let me check this, did you just give Malphite a 10 in speed and 9 in sustain?
Why? How? Did you go some weird rune build with barbed armor and a bunch of other stuff made specially for increasing clear times and sustain?
His "splash damage" is only 30 of his ad and are reduced by armor, ok ground slam does reduce incoming damage but if he wants a full jungle clear, he will have to a) go out on 60%hp b) slow down between camps to get his shield up (10 seconds is quite the time) but you did underestimate his ganks, he doesnt need to ulti for initation, cheesewheeling a enemy is enough as a gank initation, his ulti can (and should) be used as a additional cc post a enemy flash.

Here is a comparison to Cho (who you rated lower in speed), if both of them go 0/21/9 in masteries have hp quints, armor seals, attack speed marks and no glyphs (since mr pre level wouldnt help in the jungle) and starting armor 5hp pot, Cho will be at at least 550 hp all the time, having level 2, 4, 5 and up gank chances, clearing the jungle in about 3:50, Malphite will only be able to get good ganks at level 3-4 and post 6 clearing the jungle at 4:10~ while pretty much spamming his brutal strikes...
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Djidji90 | January 10, 2012 11:46pm
hopefully people who doesnt know anything about jungling read this, and stop trolling in every game...
thanks for awesome guide :)
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Andele3025 (2) | January 10, 2012 9:49pm
Hahano wrote:

Stonewall and others disagree with me. I couldn't care less. I hated every single game as Malphite I played, and I played like 20. They were all the same old story over and over again. Clear speed is legendary, but his ganks and late game damage suck ***.

There's only two junglers ever that I've literally hated playing. Malphite is one, Pantheon is the other. I'm sure I'll catch heat for it, but hey, it's my opinions, right? I'm sure the ratings will be fine for Mr. Malphite.

Well Malphite is a pure tank with high gold cost itemization if he wants to be effective (even if he goes atriformogs what has high synergy with him he needs his randuins and banshees so only 1 item slot left for boots 2) and his only real sustain comes from intentional jungle speed slow down what is bad... well not negative sustain bad but kinda close again all that said i had a game where one of the 2 pugs went jungle malphite and brutally denied the enemy ad carry while giving mid a real good gank post level 4 every now and then... i guess its all personal preference, but he is lacking in comparison most junglers in all aspects (ulti kinda saves him, but not as much as ww's does) and if someone likes being tanky and debuffing, they may as well play Trundle (that will usually debuff the enemy carry damage more with his q than malaphite can with both his e).


Luriocarn wrote:

What about Sion I heard he could jungle

His sustain is... well he doesnt take that much damage, but has no real synergy with jungle items and why the hell would you take a 0.9 ap scale farm monster into the jungle?

Blowfeld wrote:

If Lee Sin gets raped by Eve then this Lee Sin should uninstall :D

And it was not the hate spike that "took half" his health...know the champs you talk about!
- Yeah sorry, it was Ravage (the 1:1 ap scailing ability) i never played Evelynn so i dont/didnt really know what name fits to what ability and hey if someone can kill a base stats strong champ with a worthless piece of junk its mostly a sign of skill difference and not someone not knowing how to play (and on 1500 elo i think you should know how to play at least 2 champions really well).
Overestimating a enemy is bad, but underestimating one is even worse...
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Luriocarn (4) | January 10, 2012 5:27pm
What about Sion I heard he could jungle
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Hahano (73) | January 9, 2012 10:22pm
Stonewall and others disagree with me. I couldn't care less. I hated every single game as Malphite I played, and I played like 20. They were all the same old story over and over again. Clear speed is legendary, but his ganks and late game damage suck ***.

There's only two junglers ever that I've literally hated playing. Malphite is one, Pantheon is the other. I'm sure I'll catch heat for it, but hey, it's my opinions, right? I'm sure the ratings will be fine for Mr. Malphite.
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PsiGuard (880) | January 9, 2012 9:43pm
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Hahano (73) | January 9, 2012 9:34pm
Malphite is done. I wasn't kind.
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PsiGuard (880) | January 9, 2012 6:13pm
He has to do Malphite first :P
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Blowfeld (108) | January 9, 2012 6:12pm
You should definitely give jungle Yorick a try.
Played him for several games now and it is fun. Early ganks, mayhem and everybody hates you because they think you are a troll... until you steam roll your way to victory...
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Doganerdem95 | January 9, 2012 11:11am
This is the best guide ive ever seen !! :) good job
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Rastaza | January 9, 2012 7:25am
Well explained and lots of informations that helped me.
+1
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Blowfeld (108) | January 8, 2012 7:20am
If Lee Sin gets raped by Eve then this Lee Sin should uninstall :D

And it was not the hate spike that "took half" his health...know the champs you talk about!
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Andele3025 (2) | January 8, 2012 7:14am
Hello its me again with 2 things: The new jungle is fair enough with hp, so a blue elixir starting fiddle that gets 2 points into his bounce crow can clear the jungle much faster for a small bit less sustain (but most of the time you can get the 70~ hp back with 2 ticks of drain).
Second, you might thing about evelynn again, yes that evelynn the usless piece of laugh, since i had a game (GM cho solo top ofc), with a enemy evelynn jungling... in our jungle while killing lee sin over and over again, i dont know if it was pure luck, our lee too relaxed or the new masteries, but damn her hate spike took half his hp in one shot and late game she actually killed our carry a few times. She is still rubbish against anything with over 2k hp or high defenses but worth looking on for the future.
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Mordred (1) | January 6, 2012 8:25am
outstanding!
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Hahano (73) | January 5, 2012 1:40pm
@OldBen: Thanks for the kind words. I have thought of that, but there could potentially be a lot of controversy from linking guides that other people may not like. To avoid that entirely as well as potential for guides getting flamed/trolled due to my linking, I am steering clear of it. I may post in the future guides for these champions on how I play them, but I am currently working on the videos first.
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OldBen (14) | January 5, 2012 12:25pm
Man - this guide is AWESOME. Everything that people need to know about junglers - and much more! Must read not just for every jungler, but for every LoL player!

Upvoted, fav'd, +repped, I'm sad I'm not veteran cause I'd like to recommend it. ;)
BTW. Have you thought about posting links to jungle guides for every champion that you'd recommend most?

PS. Bonus point for Dunkey reference on Alistar ;)
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Zerbin (3) | January 4, 2012 10:56am
I hate volibear too lol... He's kinda op bear
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Hahano (73) | January 3, 2012 7:12pm
@TheGreatBlumpkin: Because Riot had the audacity to make a bear that isn't good. I'm pissed.
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TheGreatBlumpkin | January 3, 2012 6:33pm
Why so much hate on volibear?
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Hahano (73) | January 3, 2012 3:13pm
@Xenasis: Singed is next on my list after Malphite and Shen, which I'm currently testing out.
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Xenasis (164) | January 3, 2012 12:19pm
You tried out jungle Singed, yet?

I find him to be extremely potent in the new jungle

Very fast
Impossible to counter jungle
Great ganks
Red buff procs from Fling
Solves all of his laning woes
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Hahano (73) | January 3, 2012 12:10pm
@m00d: No. I have played Twitch several times and do not like him. He has no sustain, takes too much damage in the jungle, can't farm for **** and the only thing he has is ganking. A vision ward or two and he's useless. Yes he can do good. Yes he has been seen high ELO play sometimes. Yes he can carry games, etc, etc. I don't like the rat and probably won't be adding him.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't see it at all and have been asked many, many times.
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m00d | January 3, 2012 11:38am
This guide is just amazing and has helped my jungling so much.
But could you add Twitch?

With the new jungle he is very viable and his ganks is just epic.
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KevAlmighty (7) | January 3, 2012 9:48am
Use Jungle Timer software for tracking monsters

http://JungleTimer.com/

1200 downloads +
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FreddieBrek | January 3, 2012 9:35am
Good to see you're putting Malphite in here. He is outclassed in a lot of ways, but he clears so fast and can tower dive like a baws.

Have you considered putting Singed in this guide? Dyrus (pro NA player) recently rocked EU West by playing a lot of jungle Singed.
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HtG DarkElf (6) | January 2, 2012 3:20pm
omfg i laughed so hard at the jokes at pros and cons
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Xenasis (164) | December 31, 2011 6:06pm
Gave this and your other guide a much deserved scout point :)
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Synaesthesia (1) | December 31, 2011 9:51am
This guide has truly been a great help. Knowing a lot more about every jungler gives such a great advantage. Pure gold. Bookmark'd and +1.
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Dorcas | December 30, 2011 10:02am
Awesome! Jungle is an art and you describe so well these techniques..
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Scodran | December 29, 2011 2:50am
it literally is th best guide on mobafire :P +1
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levyathon (1) | December 28, 2011 2:53pm
Great guide brilliant. I just started jungling with Lee Sin as always learning a new skill is challenging, should I be doing offensive masteries or defensive masteries. In your 101 jungle guide its wolves to blue. In your Lee sin guide its wolves, wraiths, golems, red buff, wolves and blue buff. In you experience what is the best way to attack the route now. Thank you and again amazing guide.
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P0par7y | December 26, 2011 5:49pm
great thanks
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LoCa HoneyDeath | December 26, 2011 4:47pm
Nice i go play jungler in my next many games! :D
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Antique (2) | December 26, 2011 12:13am
i think malphite god exponentialy better with the new jungle, heck he breezes through it and can do it naked. yah his ganks pre-6 are damn awful but after 6 you are as good as dead if that rock comes out of the bush. plox reconsider about him being on the fringe since many of us (heck even stonewall008) rate him high now in the new jungle.
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Nerun (27) | December 25, 2011 1:22pm
@Hahano trundle would need to click the jungle monsters to begin using Q :P
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Andele3025 (2) | December 24, 2011 8:58pm
Hahano wrote:

@Andele3025: Thanks for the input. I'm reworking each rating character by character and I will keep your comments in consideration! Highly appreciated!

@remeranAuthor: A few chars can do that (Skarner, Trundle) but she's weird in the jungle.


Thanks, but its just some notes i get from playing around (im not really high elo, i think as your guide says im on the edge of mid tier and good...) and i have to tell you this, there is a epic replay of some 1700 elo dude going jungle heimer and man, the ganks and level 6 dragon solo are just EPIC. He doesnt even fall off that much late game as normal heimer since the main focus are rockets not turrets (no lane phase=no real need for maxing turrets).
By me semi-tested thing: After Philo Stone (and the mana runes) he seemed not to have any real mana problems either, but on dragon you need pretty good control over aggro or he will reset what can be a major pain.

BTW. Nunu got a kinda better route: Smite on enemy wraith and consume on 1, wolf camp, and then o blue first killing 1 of the minions before doing blue for a level up, it has (about) the same timing as the new level 2 ganks while you set the enemy back by 55 gold and 1/4 of the starting xp bar and giving you 108 hp during blue.
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Hahano (73) | December 23, 2011 6:50pm
@Andele3025: Thanks for the input. I'm reworking each rating character by character and I will keep your comments in consideration! Highly appreciated!

@remeranAuthor: A few chars can do that (Skarner, Trundle) but she's weird in the jungle.
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Andele3025 (2) | December 23, 2011 6:18pm
Just for note, id downgrade Shyvanas late game to 7 (she falls under jungle cho category in my mind) since a) people do have a primal fear against reptiles and will instantly attack you during teamfights no matter if you used your ulti or not b) all her late game rape items are pretty much general late game rape items, she only has nice synergy with some of them (my reason of lee sin hate - some kind of synergy with almost every item in game... even the mana/mregen ones...)

And without good ganks/cc in lane, after the 30 min mark her itemization will be really far behind in comparison to solo top shy.
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remeranAuthor | December 23, 2011 1:48pm
Hahano wrote:

@remeranAuthor: Soraka at least applies red buff with her E (I think) and has a silence! She can heal a lane up while ganking as well...so her ganks aren't amazing for killing people, however she offers a unique dynamic of healing and sustaining her laner. Shyvana's ganks are just ****. :)

... come to think of it... since her jungling method is to just slap the q button over and over... It wouldn't be too hard to maintain map awareness. Hell, Soraka might have the unique ability to jungle entirely from the minimap! Perfectly timed global ults from the jungle? Jeeze.
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NNAARR | December 22, 2011 9:08pm
+vote^^
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FiniteParadox (3) | December 22, 2011 4:35pm
Back and time for me to comment on the Fizz additions. He should be given dual ratings based on how you build him. If you, like me, build him on-hit his clear time is fast (Not super fast like AoE's, but it's, in my opinion, above 5) and he doesn't rely on his E for damage so not nearly as mana hungry and more reliable escape since it's always up unless you use it for slowing or chasing. While he does lack good CC pre-6 for ganking. I'm usually successful due to his high damage output and mobility.

And...that's about it.
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Macaco Velho (4) | December 22, 2011 4:09pm
You're missing jungle Poppy and Twitch there.
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Hahano (73) | December 22, 2011 9:44am
@NNAARR: I have to play him first. I know he's legit and Saint was raving about him, but I haven't gotten a chance to play him in a non-troll game. I am working on getting to the bread and butter junglers and extending outward.

@remeranAuthor: Soraka at least applies red buff with her E (I think) and has a silence! She can heal a lane up while ganking as well...so her ganks aren't amazing for killing people, however she offers a unique dynamic of healing and sustaining her laner. Shyvana's ganks are just ****. :)
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remeranAuthor | December 22, 2011 7:00am
Actually Shyvanna isn't the worst ganking jungler.

That would be Soraka.

Also, Soraka clears camps faster than her. No really. Try it out. Starcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcallstarcall!
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NNAARR | December 22, 2011 6:44am
What about rumble jungle? He can clear relatively fast, not so squishy in jungle because of shield, and his ganks with slow+speedup are also pretty good/
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Doggomoo | December 21, 2011 7:13pm
I think this sums it up for everyone:


"F**KING AWESOME!"
"After reading this guide I ****ed. In. My Pants."
"If this guide was any better it would be perfect"
"Perfection is impossible but it seems you have grabbed it."
"Wow nice that's alot of video footage."
":o"
"+1"
"-1 I'm a noob"
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Jahotic | December 21, 2011 9:02am
I could never jungle properly before this guide is amazing and the best jungle guide I've ever seen.
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Hahano (73) | December 16, 2011 10:18am
@NicknameMy: I am planning sweeping changes that will bring this guide into the new jungle as well as new features. I'm currently enjoying my vacation and will be resuming working on it by the end of the week. As my previous post said, many new changes are on the horizon and I'm pretty excited about them. Master Yi will recieve some buffs to his ratings as well as a few other junglers that are currently doing better.

Thanks for checking in on this guide!
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NicknameMy (153) | December 16, 2011 8:35am
You need to update it a bit for the new jungle. Master Yi is the one with the biggest buff out of the new jungle. He can actually do now 2 routes.

1. The farm route:

Just farm like crazy. You will gain great lategame power if your team don't need ganks. This route will lead you into overfarmed over other lanes.(Route 2 will result at one point into this)

2. The ambush route:

This route is the new counterjungle style of Master Yi. Master Yi is great at trading blows with the enemy jungler, because he has the highest damage of them all. Also, he is great at ambushes, because free hits with that damage of Yi is just godlike. The only bad thing is, they can escape if you have no slow.
So, now think about a route, which gives you a slow, a chance to ambush the enemy and wear him down quickly. And have the best item to do that.

The best item for it is no matter what Elixir of Agility. This one lets you destroy the enemy pretty quickly with your ad-steroid. And the crit, well, if you crit them, they are even more dead.^^
So, want a slow, so we have to do lizard. Now the question, the enemy one or yours? Then the next question comes into play, ambush. So if you take the enemy lizard and he doesn't know that you sit in the bush near lizard, you can ambush him with ease if he wants to go for golems.

Finally, lvl advantage. How we could get an little advantage over our enemy without loosing too much time? The first things which helps us here is Elixir of Agility, because it has the fastest cleartime at all. Secondly, you can do a small camp before the big one spawns. And the golem gives the biggest exp. So, you go wolves-golem-enemy lizard. This way, you can get into the bush before the enemy sees you(since he does wolves-golem-wraiths-wolves-lizard-golems) and we have the perfect situation for the ambush. All your weaknesses are cancelled and all your pros are on your side. This way, you will kill him, take his blue buff and then take the exp of his golems and wraiths(only kill big one). Then you can go the farm route or gank top with double buff and Elixir of Agility.
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jhoijhoi (1894) | December 13, 2011 7:11pm
Dude, 98%, ****ing wow! :D Congrats!
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MissMaw (640) | December 12, 2011 12:39pm
Brolaf's the best!!!
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Applseed (1) | December 11, 2011 3:47pm
Have you ever considered Kayle in the jungle?
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DoomMail | December 11, 2011 3:28am
helped me alot, especialy with shyvana.
thnx alot
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Nerun (27) | December 9, 2011 4:12am
Honestly, and I thought I knew what jungling was xD you just LITERALLY made me feel like .-. hell... I've got a LOT to study xD

Anyways +1 ftw!!

(shaco jungler note*)

Ah gotta love to stack boxes right out of their red and kill them + steal it ;) feels SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good ;)
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Twitchinator9000 | December 7, 2011 6:48pm
pshhh noc es #1 jungle :D
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BVGSengir | December 7, 2011 4:53am
This is an awesome guide. Thanks for doing so much work for the rest of us!
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zagdem (7) | December 6, 2011 2:02pm
Nice to see that you are working on it. Thank you for your efforts : they are very useful ;)
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Temzilla (211) | December 6, 2011 11:37am
DuffTime wrote:

Pretty sure Shyvanna is faster than Udyr.

And Cho is one of the best junglers in game imho.


It goes:

Skarner
Shyvana
Udyr

Past that, it's like... Tryndamere is fast, Trundle/GP/Volibear/Irelia/Master Yi/Cho are all within the 3:50-4:10 range, champs like Nidalee are slow. I would suspect Malphite is pretty fast.

As far as i know.
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DuffTime (670) | December 6, 2011 11:02am
Pretty sure Shyvanna is faster than Udyr.

And Cho is one of the best junglers in game imho.
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Hahano (73) | December 6, 2011 10:42am
@Everyone: This guide is going to be undergoing a lot of changes. I have to redo my scoring process as well as my scores for most of the cast, including adding several people to the list. I will be churning through all of that after final's week is over on Thursday evening.

Things changing:
-Addition of Fizz, Nasus and Volibear
-Reworking of Maokai and Skarner's ratings
-New rating parameter called efficiency. This may or may not replace sustainability but ranks a jungler's ability to be in the jungle for extended periods of time.
-Replay videos with commentary for every single jungler. I have some for Skarner, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Amumu, Maokai, Rammus and Tryndamere that need to undergo file conversion and uploading.

There are exciting and sweeping changes coming through for this guide and my blogs (which will repost this in a prettier format). Please stick with it and I'll see you all on the other side.
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zagdem (7) | December 6, 2011 8:43am
Hi,

If you have some spare time you can try Kayle as a jungler. After a few tests she can do it in the new jungle. Her early-jungle is not very efficient (like ChoGath), but their ganks are amazing. Really.

After a few minutes she can farm very very fast.

Moreover, there is no real modification in here item selection, you just can make Madred's razor sooner.
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contagioned | December 6, 2011 1:34am

overall i reall like your jungle guide very helpful in understandign on who to counter jungle also with whys and whens. the only thing i find wrong with your guide is you rate shyvana way to low on the jungling. I play shyvana as a jungler and i absolutely wreck the other team almost always. exhaust is NOT required for a gank with shyvanna as i have done it several times and still got the kill. i tower dive to get kills and still survive to come gank other lanes or surprise gank the same lane if they are foolish enough not to stay hidden.i just think the most people underestimate shyvana as a tower diver. also flash isnt really required for shyvana either ghost i think is better in almost all cases.
you also stated that shyvana has no ranged poke. well im sorry to burst your bubble but she does have a ranged poke. not a good one but she does have one which is oppisite of what you said. her E is VERY VERY VERY underrated in fights or harrassment. i just find that because im shyvana everyone assumes that i cant hit them at all without melle attacks. several several times i have gone 12/1/8 or something very similar as jungle shyvana hile almost always still being the tank. maybe i missed something in your shyvana jungling section but these are just my thoughts

Her ganks are trash, no matter what way you look at it, which is the only thing that HahaNo gave a bad rating. If you're able to get successful ganks with Shyvana without Exhaust, then you're just good at ganking. She only has a movement speed buff, and that's all. You can argue that her ulti is helpful, but even then, it's no reason to raise her score.

Saintvicious has a very high win rate with Shyvana as a jungler in solo queue, but he got wrecked in the qualifiers tournament when he tried to use her. For good reason.
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Konanza (1) | December 4, 2011 12:32am
Amazingly detailed guide, has alot of really nice information and is just good.
Just, wow.
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dragons hell | December 3, 2011 4:12pm
overall i reall like your jungle guide very helpful in understandign on who to counter jungle also with whys and whens. the only thing i find wrong with your guide is you rate shyvana way to low on the jungling. I play shyvana as a jungler and i absolutely wreck the other team almost always. exhaust is NOT required for a gank with shyvanna as i have done it several times and still got the kill. i tower dive to get kills and still survive to come gank other lanes or surprise gank the same lane if they are foolish enough not to stay hidden.i just think the most people underestimate shyvana as a tower diver. also flash isnt really required for shyvana either ghost i think is better in almost all cases.
you also stated that shyvana has no ranged poke. well im sorry to burst your bubble but she does have a ranged poke. not a good one but she does have one which is oppisite of what you said. her E is VERY VERY VERY underrated in fights or harrassment. i just find that because im shyvana everyone assumes that i cant hit them at all without melle attacks. several several times i have gone 12/1/8 or something very similar as jungle shyvana hile almost always still being the tank. maybe i missed something in your shyvana jungling section but these are just my thoughts
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Donmezo | December 2, 2011 6:10am
Can You please add Vayne ?
Thanks :)
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Hahano (73) | December 1, 2011 6:59pm
@NicknameMy: I will be updating this when things settle down. A few people will raise and lower, but you have to realize that old jungle timers and comparisons are worthless. Riot is possibly raising experience and gold gains and there will be plenty of tweaking to be done.

I have posted my notes about the jungle changes as well as an analysis into what possibly will be changing on my blog, Here.

Check it out and if you like it, subscribe. I'll be writing for a website that is up on Sunday or so as well, so you can look for the changes there. I will be updating my mobafire guides and proving more detail in my articles and blogs.
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NicknameMy (153) | December 1, 2011 9:05am
When you update this?

I think, Master Yi will raise with the new jungle. But also Amumu because finally he has a sustain tool.^^ Actually, Amumu can finish the jungle in 3:53(tested with 0/13/17 masteries) and do even the big buffs pretty fast. And he can no longer be counter jungled that easy, because now, you can start with ease at wraiths. For sustain, I have to say, Amumu gets never below halve HP, only at golem at first turn. And that with Regrowth Pendant and Health Potion.
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remeranAuthor | December 1, 2011 8:24am
Veigar can jungle now. It's stupid as hell but he can. I'd say to put him next to Heimer, "He can jungle. Don't." but the thing is, that stun cage is the most amazing gank opening ever.

Take flat AP quints, glyphs, armor everything else, buy an elixer of brilliance, 4 health pots, and 2 mana pots. Start at blue, take your W first and don't forget smite.

They probably won't even counter jungle you for now until more people start doing it, which they won't, because it's stupid, so you don't even really need to worry about them stealing your blue.
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contagioned | November 30, 2011 11:44pm
You never mentioned in your update history thing that you added Shyvana.

Also, i don't think you should give higher scores for Maokai, he's not that great still. TheOddOne's clearing times were mediocre, plus he was only against a Rammus counter jungler. Even late game he really only felt like a throwaway initiate during teamfights.

Lastly, I'm decently liking Talon in the jungle as of late, might just be me though.
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Dark Gandhi (1) | November 30, 2011 7:09pm
Great job with the excellent guide! Keep up the good work bro!
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lockshore | November 30, 2011 4:17pm
well, u've done an awesome work with this guide but i must say lee sin has an ultra-mega-power to counter and deflect, to still he just q and q again and if it's not death use smite, and his 1vs1 early game is better than shiva's. but i must still say AWESOME work.
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I am silence | November 30, 2011 12:14pm
Nothing to be added. You really put some work in it. So this guide roars DEMACIA!
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ViableBear (6) | November 30, 2011 4:09am
Complete guide, all succesfull, great overall +1
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zagdem (7) | November 27, 2011 2:51am
Hey,

Have you seen the last news about the jungle modifications? I would like to know what you think about it. Indeed, I would like to guess what will be the new OP-junglers after these modifications, but I am not good enough at jungling to do it myself.

Do you think that we will see more ranged characters in the jungle?

Thank you,

Zagdem.
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FiniteParadox (3) | November 25, 2011 7:12pm
Heh. Consistency with Trin continues. At 6 consecutive wins, 5 of which are Skarner.
1
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Hahano (73) | November 25, 2011 3:45pm
Time shall tell.
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contagioned | November 25, 2011 1:46pm
They're completely rehauling the jungle to the point where many more champions are probably going to be able to legitimately do it better. If that's the case, it really seems the only reason to choose a specific character will be the ganking and dueling/countering abilities.

You think this'll change your guide a lot, let alone your actual in-game jungling choices?
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FiniteParadox (3) | November 25, 2011 12:18am
Hahano wrote:

@FiniteParadox: Skarner has been updated.

@Briefcase Bunny: He's coming up soon enough. I like him in the lane and he's a cute feller, so I hope to have some time to play him soon. I think Maokai is next on my list since TheOddOne beasted with him.

And I'm satisfied. Matches my own assumptions, observations, and experiences. I'll probably stick around as I jungle with Fizz, too and you'll be covering him soon. Also, as a side note, you should try just finishing Sheen before Wriggle's but then going how you normally would. I've been doing a similar-ish route and been having great success with it. Got a 16/3/19 game with Skarner recently.
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Hahano (73) | November 24, 2011 9:21pm
@FiniteParadox: Skarner has been updated.

@Briefcase Bunny: He's coming up soon enough. I like him in the lane and he's a cute feller, so I hope to have some time to play him soon. I think Maokai is next on my list since TheOddOne beasted with him.
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Briefcase Bunny (2) | November 24, 2011 8:20pm
My Jungle King :) Please look into Fizz when you can, I have jungled with him successfully and it works! Thanks for Listening!
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FiniteParadox (3) | November 23, 2011 3:38pm
Hahano wrote:

@FiniteParadox: Yea, I have had the opposite! I find when I don't build Wriggle's I am two levels behind and squishy as hell, not to mention I can't gank often. So agree to disagree :D

Oh. I don't disagree with the merits of Wriggle's. Overall it's probably a better item, just as you said earlier it goes down to personal playstyle which gives me more consistency with a quick Trin and more consistency with you for Wriggle's over Trin.
1
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Hahano (73) | November 23, 2011 3:23pm
@FiniteParadox: Yea, I have had the opposite! I find when I don't build Wriggle's I am two levels behind and squishy as hell, not to mention I can't gank often. So agree to disagree :D
1
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FiniteParadox (3) | November 23, 2011 2:06pm
Hahano wrote:

@FiniteParadox: Your ability to start fights lies with your tankiness and positioning. Wriggle's gives you extra armor and lifesteal for sustain in a fight, so it helps out a lot more in that respect. Making you less blue reliant also makes your games more consistent and helps out your team a lot (Kassadin with blue is hilarious). I get that the "scary phase" is totally sick on Skarner, but you don't have to even run damage to be scary with his kit. He can flash initiate and also has a perma-slow, so even if he did literally 0 damage without TF (he still does a lot), he would be useful. Everyone has their personal style, but I find that rushing TF on him makes him much more susceptible to counter jungling, inconsistent games and takes away from his tankiness.


I understand all that, yet oddly enough, for me at least, I've been finding more consistency with rushing Trin than getting a quick Wriggle's before Trin.
1
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Hahano (73) | November 23, 2011 4:23am
@FiniteParadox: Your ability to start fights lies with your tankiness and positioning. Wriggle's gives you extra armor and lifesteal for sustain in a fight, so it helps out a lot more in that respect. Making you less blue reliant also makes your games more consistent and helps out your team a lot (Kassadin with blue is hilarious). I get that the "scary phase" is totally sick on Skarner, but you don't have to even run damage to be scary with his kit. He can flash initiate and also has a perma-slow, so even if he did literally 0 damage without TF (he still does a lot), he would be useful. Everyone has their personal style, but I find that rushing TF on him makes him much more susceptible to counter jungling, inconsistent games and takes away from his tankiness.
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FiniteParadox (3) | November 22, 2011 8:58pm
Hmph. I've been trying a Wriggle's start and then going Trin jungle with Skarner instead of just going straight for Trin. But it's generally taking me longer for me to get into my scary state. I'm able to gank successfully netting my team some kills. (Had a game where I got my Kass 8 straight kills without either of us dying) But it just sets back Skarner's scary late game too much. While I have been noticing I'm a lot less reliant on blue. The fact that I'm not scary and thus can't really reliably initiate fights.
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Hahano (73) | November 22, 2011 2:33pm
@Holyc0w: Likely.
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Holyc0w (1) | November 22, 2011 1:34pm
Do you think you will re write your Maokia section after the oddone pretty much carried each game at MLG with him in the final? proving he is a great jungler and late game intiator/tank.
1
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Hahano (73) | November 20, 2011 7:17pm
@MiamiHurricane: I'm waiting until he's not in every single game to play him. I will likely make him my jungler of the week two weeks from now if I like his jungle. I'm waiting to see what Riot does with him and how well he's received first, though I've already bought him.
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FiniteParadox (3) | November 20, 2011 3:38pm
Hahano wrote:

@FiniteParadox: Sorry my explanation wasn't long enough for you.

I build Wriggle's on Skarner to give him a faster early jungle clear. I go from Wriggle's into Trinity Force, and it is extremely strong. This makes him really tanky, yet with surprisingly high DPS. I really like it. However, without the Wriggle's, his jungle is extremely blue buff dependent. The procs, though only a percentage of his attacks, help him immensely and allow me to give my laners blue buff in order to do better. If I were to take them for myself and go zeal, sheen or phage first, I'm sure it is possible. As far as his difficulty, it is not in jungling literally. He is easy. You just mash Q and look somewhere else on the map, great deal. However knowing when, where and if you can initiate as well as who to use your ultimate on in a fight and navigating an enemy team to maximize yourself, things get a bit more hairy. His jungling is pretty sustained overall, however mostly due to the Wriggle's. The lifesteal as well as extra damage allows him to not use as much mana as well as gain life back on his attacks.

Ganks after his ultimate and even before his ultimate are very strong. He guarantees a summoner's waste on the early levels and after he hits 6, there's a very good chance of a kill. He can easily dominate a 2v1 situation when ganking on top and is extremely powerful at all stages of the game. After he hits 6, again, his ganks are very very strong. He is resistant to counter jungling as well, because he's strong all the time. This number should be raised because it is an old number from before he was buffed. I haven't been able to devote as much time to this due to other obligations, but I will raise it to a 7 because I feel that coming into his jungle is a stupid, stupid idea. I will also be raising his counter jungling to 5 as well because he can hang with anyone in their jungle and creates tons of problems. He is very sustained and I am frequently left with a full life gank after a full clear of the jungle at around level 5.

Overall this section on Skarner needs to be updated a bit (I've been playing him for a week straight, he's my "Jungler of the Week") and I will do such when I have a full, completed evaluation of him. I appreciate your comments, and thank you.

-Hahano


Ah. I see. A bit of miscommunication then. I'll try out the Wriggle's, never gave it a chance. Always sold my starting cloth armor for a philo stone at 4 minutes.
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MiamiHurricane (9) | November 20, 2011 1:00pm
Apparently the new champion, Fizz, is pretty good at jungling. Just wondering what you think of him as a jungler and if you will eventually put him into your guide.
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Brooky | November 20, 2011 6:44am
You are...
Funny :D
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Hahano (73) | November 20, 2011 6:12am
@NicknameMy: Yea...Warwick is a toughie, haha. Times have been better for Mr. Werewolf. Skarner and Udyr dominate certain top lane matchups and are ok at best in others, so depending on who's up there, they do better in lane.
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NicknameMy (153) | November 20, 2011 1:44am
Actually, Skarner and Udyr are better in the jungle than in the lane. Warwick is at all ****...
1
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WhireleZz | November 20, 2011 12:34am
Wow
this
is
just
so
awesome!
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Hahano (73) | November 19, 2011 5:45pm
@Contagioned: Xenasis summed most of it up.

It boils down to: Are they so much better in a lane that they're not justified jungling (AKA Jungling is awful). This can be seen best in someone like Sion or Akali. Sure they can jungle, but their effectiveness as a character is so hampered by forcing a jungle that it is not worth just smashing it in because you can. There are many on this list that are better in lane, such as Skarner, Cho'Gath, Warwick, Udyr and others. The problem arises when their laning eclipses their jungling entirely.
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Xenasis (164) | November 19, 2011 5:24pm

Don't you think that it's unfair to not put champions in your guide because "they're better in lane?" Aren't Cho'gath and Jarvan technically really good solo tops, and arguably better at doing so than jungling?


Quite a few he's got are better in lane, namely Warwick, as an example

He's just missed the ones that aren't very good at jungling and are considerably better on a lane

Take Irelia -
She can jungle, albeit badly
She's great in a lane
She needs farm

Why would you put her in the jungle except just for fun?
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contagioned | November 19, 2011 5:08pm
Don't you think that it's unfair to not put champions in your guide because "they're better in lane?" Aren't Cho'gath and Jarvan technically really good solo tops, and arguably better at doing so than jungling?
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Hahano (73) | November 19, 2011 2:44pm
@NickmanMy: Well, you already answered the reason why I have him where I do.

I understand that Master Yi is an extremely strong jungler...in the right hands. I believe Saintvicious said he's "Stronger than Tryndamere in the jungle if played right" The problem lies in exactly what you said: you have to know the matchups in and out, up and down. This guide doesn't show the "potential" of a character, otherwise everyone would be 10/10 in nearly everything. It shows the face value and strengths/weaknesses of each one. While a highly skilled Master Yi player can walk all over most of the jungle, the realistic portion is that most Yi players do not do that. He can clean up against bad opponents and then there's a massive learning curve in order to do well against good opponents. This can be seen easily in Xin Zhao as well, where there are a few players that play them extremely powerfully, and then there's the rest of the population. I am content with Master Yi as he is because I don't want to delve into the intricacies of being spectacular with a single character. Any character in the game has their power doubled or tripled in the correct hands. The problem is there's only a few hands that are right for Master Yi, and chances are they won't be the person reading this guide's.

If someone were so bent on Yi that they would play him all the time, my guide wouldn't matter or apply to them anyway. Once again, I appreciate your zealous pursuit of making Master Yi amazing. Keep with it and you'll be an amazing Yi player, but that doesn't make Yi amazing.

Side note: If I put down potential, Shaco would be 10/10 in all categories. There simply aren't good Shaco players because of the extreme difficulty in playing them properly and consistently.
1
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Hahano (73) | November 19, 2011 2:16pm
@FiniteParadox: Sorry my explanation wasn't long enough for you.

I build Wriggle's on Skarner to give him a faster early jungle clear. I go from Wriggle's into Trinity Force, and it is extremely strong. This makes him really tanky, yet with surprisingly high DPS. I really like it. However, without the Wriggle's, his jungle is extremely blue buff dependent. The procs, though only a percentage of his attacks, help him immensely and allow me to give my laners blue buff in order to do better. If I were to take them for myself and go zeal, sheen or phage first, I'm sure it is possible. As far as his difficulty, it is not in jungling literally. He is easy. You just mash Q and look somewhere else on the map, great deal. However knowing when, where and if you can initiate as well as who to use your ultimate on in a fight and navigating an enemy team to maximize yourself, things get a bit more hairy. His jungling is pretty sustained overall, however mostly due to the Wriggle's. The lifesteal as well as extra damage allows him to not use as much mana as well as gain life back on his attacks.

Ganks after his ultimate and even before his ultimate are very strong. He guarantees a summoner's waste on the early levels and after he hits 6, there's a very good chance of a kill. He can easily dominate a 2v1 situation when ganking on top and is extremely powerful at all stages of the game. After he hits 6, again, his ganks are very very strong. He is resistant to counter jungling as well, because he's strong all the time. This number should be raised because it is an old number from before he was buffed. I haven't been able to devote as much time to this due to other obligations, but I will raise it to a 7 because I feel that coming into his jungle is a stupid, stupid idea. I will also be raising his counter jungling to 5 as well because he can hang with anyone in their jungle and creates tons of problems. He is very sustained and I am frequently left with a full life gank after a full clear of the jungle at around level 5.

Overall this section on Skarner needs to be updated a bit (I've been playing him for a week straight, he's my "Jungler of the Week") and I will do such when I have a full, completed evaluation of him. I appreciate your comments, and thank you.

-Hahano
1
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NicknameMy (153) | November 19, 2011 9:33am
Back to my old friend, Master Yi.

Master Yi is great at counterjungling because he can clear small camps out very fast. If he somehow gets the advantage, he will just wipe out the enemy jungler. The summary of that makes a great counterjungler. But to do it, you need to know all champs in the game and all things about Master Yi. Thats why this style is very difficult. More about this here:
/league-of-legends/champion/master-yi-3
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FiniteParadox (3) | November 18, 2011 11:51pm
Hahano wrote:

@FiniteParadox: I am playing a lot of Skarner right now and I'm sticking with what I have for this week. I run Wriggle's on him and it makes his jungle much, much faster. Sheen or whatever other item does NOT do it justice.

Have you ever faced a full built Trin Skarner? If he built off-tank, of course, as he should. He still clears the jungle extremely quickly, more so than having to depend on Wriggle's procs. Not to mention his dps is extremely high. And you didn't even mention any of the rest of my post.
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Hahano (73) | November 18, 2011 8:24pm
@FiniteParadox: I am playing a lot of Skarner right now and I'm sticking with what I have for this week. I run Wriggle's on him and it makes his jungle much, much faster. Sheen or whatever other item does NOT do it justice.
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FiniteParadox (3) | November 17, 2011 10:35pm
The Skarner section is full of fallacy's. He is one of the fastest junglers (I never, ever, ever get Madred's Razor or Wriggle's). He's a particularly easy jungler, all it requires is the common cloth armor and 5 health pots and armor seals. Regardless of Wriggle's status, his jungling sustainability is really powerful. Can't argue on the ganks section, they're only mildly powerful before his ult, after which, however, they're top class. He's fairly resistant to counter jungling, I've had people take my wraiths before, I just go do golems for the level, do red, and continue on with jungling or ganking. Generally don't need to recall after a full clear. And if he does get caught, he'll already have his Q's slow ready, so just apply it and run. You'll get away safely most of the time as you'll have high health. And you should add that when his ult is about to end to turn around as that way the enemy will be further from where they want to be.
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Comtra (1) | November 16, 2011 1:45pm
You forgot Singed jungle :O
1
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GrimmFate (42) | November 16, 2011 12:15pm
eulo wrote:

great guide +1 but there is no mention of Jax, either in the actual junglers or the myth junglers?


Because... Hes not a jungle.. in myth or actuality..
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eulo | November 16, 2011 12:14pm
great guide +1 but there is no mention of Jax, either in the actual junglers or the myth junglers?
1
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persephone (2) | November 15, 2011 11:45pm
very nice. +1 form me.
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icebird50 | November 13, 2011 9:34am
wow this guide helps a lot whit jungeling (i dint even knew what jungeling was for before i read this :S)
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Remcoo (1) | November 10, 2011 10:26pm
Awesome guide
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The Greek (4) | November 10, 2011 11:26am
Nice Guide!I m gonna tell u that Yorick is really good jungler!It s like trundle-olaf kind and u should try him!His is a bit slow jungler and a bit bad ganker.Btw...who plays cho jungler?xD
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bitpik (52) | November 10, 2011 1:29am
Great guide.

Adding blitzcrank? :P
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Hahano (73) | November 9, 2011 1:38pm
@Wojt***s: I'm going to give you a long answer for this to clarify it for future comments on speed.
Rammus' speed is pretty low. If he has blue buff or Wriggle's lantern, he can clear it pretty quickly, but still not super fast. However, the way I really consider speed is a multi-faceted approach including:
  • 1. Solo clear speed (done in a custom game)
  • 2. "Real game" clear speed (counter jungled, have to gank)
  • 3. Sustainability/amount of times to recall
  • 4. Dependence on buffs or items
  • 5. Time to clear a camp when en route to or after another objective/between ganks


For this example I will consider Rammus (Rated 1) and Lee Sin (Rated 8).
Rammus:
  • 1. Solo clear speed is not so bad. Left alone, he clears quickly for first recall.
  • 2. "Real Game" clear speed is very slow. If he is disrupted he can't do much about it, but primarily because he will be ganking lanes always (the reason you play Rammus).
  • 3. Sustainability on Rammus is bad. He can clear big camps slowly and small camps relatively fast, but takes a lot of mana or life to do either.
  • 4. Rammus depends on Blue or Wriggle's to jungle up to speed. This is a bad mark on his score, but he can clear 2-3 camps with powerball before being out of mana and large camps take forever. Considering you want to be giving your blue away and that Rammus takes a large portion of his mana to gank, he is hurt by this.
  • 5. His ganks take a lot of life and mana to perform, so he can't really blow 200 mana on a camp when he wants to be ganking or already has. Similarly, he can't start red buff at 25% life because he doesn't have lifesteal or reliable damage without using a ton of mana.

Lee Sin:
  • 1. On par with Rammus and most of the cast, faster when he has Wriggle's/Razors
  • 2. Kind of hurt, he will be ganking a lot, but ganks are short and sweet with jungle camps in between
  • 3. Lee Sin doesn't have to recall just about ever. I've gone into the mid game at 2-0 with nothing but Cloth Armor. When you do recall, it's usually because you're extremely low life or have enough to buy things.
  • 4. Lee Sin needs no buffs at all. Razor/Wriggle helps his clear time, but he hardly depends on it.
  • 5. He can clear a camp before, after or whenever he damned well pleases. He needs very little life to jungle since he has a shield and life leech and his damage output is extremely high. This allows him to alternate between ganking and jungling very easily.

So Rammus, he needs either a)Blue Buff or b)Wriggle's Lantern in order to quickly and sustainably take down a camp, he is rated low. Lee Sin is just an example, anyone higher than him could be substituted in there. You can be quick with Rammus if you're taking all the Blue buffs and/or building Wriggle's with minimal ganking, but then you're playing Rammus incorrectly. Anomalies will also happen, such as Lee Sin dying to your Rammus. More detail needs to be brought up (his life, his level, your level, his items, your items, his skill level, etc.) in order to evaluate that. However, now you know my thought process behind this.
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Wojtasss | November 9, 2011 11:18am
I've just played jungle Rammus and must say that I did the jungle faster than with the Lee Sin. And another thing, the enemy jungling Lee Sin came into my jungle when I have just finished red ( so I was pretty low on health ) and it ended with a kill for me, so in my opinion u should change a bit your Rammus section. :)

Btw great build +1
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Zultan22 (3) | November 9, 2011 1:07am
Best jungling-guide and one of the best guides on Mobafire.com :D

I have allready seen Teemo jungling very good in a 5 vs 5 game, what do you think about Teemo as jungler?
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lud0s567 | November 8, 2011 11:02am
good guide but jungle shen is good too i think
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Nirvaesh | November 7, 2011 6:26pm
A very nice guide worthy of a +1... waiting to see your thoughts on Shyvana as her clear speed compares to phoenix udyr (atleast this is what me and my friend (who plays udyr alot) found out). Given also that she has an movementspeed steroid you can get in and out of enemy jungle clearing their camps rather fast. ^^

Anyway +1.. good job, alot of information, ist a boreful wall of text and you have some funny quotes here and there.
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Shrillex (39) | November 7, 2011 9:26am
Good long read and in depth! +1 and rec
1
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hadoblado (3) | November 7, 2011 6:57am
This is without a doubt the best written LoL guide I have read to date. A pleasure to read!
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MajorLoL (114) | November 6, 2011 5:35pm
Looks like its Shyvana's turn :P
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Andele3025 (2) | November 3, 2011 8:25pm
@Hahano Yeah sorry i see them and the jungling 202 as one big general jungle guide
Just rod of ages and abyss scepter are crazy damage on nunu e and r + if you get nashors at any level of ELO, he can make a unexpected amount of damage (like the new bat/wyvern abortion result girl - btw will you add her soon? She has better jungle clearing than brolaf/nunu imo) and depends on the team, if it was a Cho or Shyvana top (also great, kinda like renekton), Veigar/Brand mid, Cait/Oriana or Soraka bot, nunu/ww are the way to go (snice both of them have 1 damage skill not counting ulti + good buffs.
If on the other had a team like Lee Sin/Jarven4/lolkali top, Kassadin mid, Vayne/Sona bot other junglers like Amumu, Skarner or Udyr would be my pick.

About brolaf, i found him to be a good Bruiser counter but ultra death/squish to mages (What is ok since he should and is optimally built as a atmogs offtank).
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leaguesdf (36) | November 3, 2011 1:27pm
This guide is amazing.However there are several things I strongly disagree with:

Shaco- ability to deflect counter-jungling 1? Hmm I think he deserves at least a 3. If he will catch you in is jungle, he will poke you, fight you a bit, then slow and poke you again, and will just drive you crazy and will buy time until his team comes. So I think he can protect his jungle, especially when he gets lvl 6 and can 1v1 most junglers. ( in addition many advanced Shaco players tend to not take Flash on him and take Ignite or Exhaust instead, which makes him even stronger in 1v1...

Trundle- I agree that his ability to defect counter jungle should be 10, but I also think that he has amazing counter jungle capabilities. He is the best right after Nunu, and I think he deserves a 9. He clear jungle creeps super fast, gets in and out quickly with W, and if he gets caught/ganked, his W E and even R allows him to escape from most situations.

Tryndamere- Post jungling 9. Yes Trynda has become really strong champ ever since he got remade, however he really, really needs the solo top farm in order to do will in the game.A lane trynda is amazing, mostly because he beats any solo toper in the game of " Who will benefit more from 30 min of afk farming). Jungle tryndamere however is much weaker unless he gets fed from some successful ganks. So I think 8 or 7 is more appropriate.

OK that is all, just some things you may want to consider. Again really, really amazing guide. No wonder he is the highest rated guide on the site :)
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Hahano (73) | October 31, 2011 9:20am
@Rohammers: I will be updating the values, but I don't know about Shaco's. His counterjungling might go up, but it's already really high. His box and base stat buff just made him more viable, not necessarily stronger.

@Andele3025:
  • I don't go into depth about routes and strategy involved in such here. That is covered in my other guide, whereas this is mostly just for the actual junglers.
  • Your second point is valid at very high ELOs, however having someone that doesn't deal damage on your team means that you not only have to be really good with Nunu, but your teammates have to be very competent as well. This doesn't happen as often as you would think. So Nunu is fine on TSM played by TheOddOne, but 50%+ of my games as Nunu have been my slowing and CC'ing everyone just to have my team not follow through. For this, he gets a 1. Would you rather have a second support or someone else for your support to help?
  • Brolaf is amazing. Not sure if that wasn't conveyed, but he's my favorite jungler for sure. He does shred anything with a health bar. The problem is he is so easily kited it's not funny. I often get in and deal enough damage to kill at least 3 people. The problem is I deal it to 5 different people because he has no way to stick on someone who flashes out ever. This means in the thick of things, people have to stick to you in order to die, which doesn't happen often.
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Andele3025 (2) | October 31, 2011 8:56am
Great guide, gave it a +1 ofc, but 3 things:
If jungling on blue team, junglers should try to go the double golem first so that they can be near top and mid lane just in time when things could get ugly (5-10 min mark), i often go do some counterjungle if the enemy has a late red jungler and swoop in from behind on the jarven or nasus - it means a lot for the late game and will usually force the enemy to be more passive and let your top farm (same thing for mid unless its a spam caster) and sometimes just you showing up can fear the enemy enough to pass on exp in fear of getting ganked (or overextends/gets aggressive and gets himself killed)
Nunu post jungling is a giant damn zoning tool with a mana cost free ulti... that is at least 2 foced flashs or a kill = he wrecks ad teams like nasus w and is a strong babysitter for the team, sure not as useful as ww or some other killer, but the longer the game goes the bigger effect his buffs/debuffs have and he can help in baron stealing, unlike shaco who may fear 1 or 2 enemy champs if he's lucky later on and be pretty much a annoyance/attention ***** and if your solo top had tp his backdooring is a pice of **** (ate the enemy shaco 3 times in his tries to take our 1st top tower with the BEST skin in game - nom nom nom) - dont know how the new buffs will affect him but i think that he should get the late game 1/10 not nunu
And last but not least Brolaf with wriggle, atmogs and fon or banshee is the biggest mmofo for tanks in the world late game, true, he may be emo with his true damage but he stays a nice powerhouse and can force a flash with just underthrow from brush after you take their golems - while you should not attack tanks (sicne most of the time they get away and the dps kill/gank you) he can help a lot against such team comps and has a mini brush ward he can pick up - makes noise and shows damage animation.
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Rohammers (6) | October 31, 2011 12:22am
Hahano i think you need to look at your shaco thing again, they gave him a huge set of buffs and that is you cant deal dmg to the boxes unless you see it and you cant see it by any form of vision, only if you have a pink ward or oracles and getting that at lvl 1 isnt as effective and you have to manually detonate the boxes and when yo do its going to do a heap load of dmg giving him fb if the detonater isnt that smart so the deflect/reflect jungling is mostly about you popping the boxes, well now if you do you will get owned so hard so will this effect the bar by anything?
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Wayne3100 (467) | October 30, 2011 10:45am
I think he's trying to say that you should tell players to not use abilities like Lee Sins Q or Xin Zhao's E too early since the enemy will Flash away. Instead you should try and save it when ganking. That's just my guess as to what he means though :P
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Hahano (73) | October 30, 2011 10:33am
@cy3160: What?
1
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cy3160 (1) | October 30, 2011 9:13am
tell them whoever is ganking, walk up and do damage, and save the cc for the last, a lee sin qq at the start is sure to get flashed, a xz who e in too, they are finishes ppl, a udyr charging in with a bear is a different story
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xXDaylightXx | October 29, 2011 6:20am
Hey man, very nice build and very detailed, BUT(!) I don't like the way you think of jungle Malphite, it IS amazing! I play him only as jungler and my team prefers that. The ganks at lvl 6 are AMAZING and if you play him good you are fast in jungle! I end up jungle at about 4:50 max with him, so don't think he's slow. But the rest is pretty well done, sorry for that harass, but it has to be said!
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Hahano (73) | October 28, 2011 8:36pm
@ Dufftime: I haven't played him since you last posted due to time issues. I like to verify and though I believe you, I would like to try it for myself. I'll likely get around to updating and revamping this after I finish my other guide reworks. I have enough time to devote to either or, so I am currently working through 202 before returning to this one.
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Wayne3100 (467) | October 28, 2011 2:29pm
^ Agree with Duff on this one. He's really fast
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DuffTime (670) | October 28, 2011 2:16pm
Again, Cho Gath's jungle speed is incredible and your guide is still displaying false information.

The only thing Cho is not excellent at is dragons and barons. Everything else is lightning fast.
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Hahano (73) | October 28, 2011 9:45am
@Zimit: While that sounds like a fantastic deal on paper (and I have thought about it) there are a few factors prohibiting that:

1. Jungle ganks are done on an as needed basis, not time based. I understand the need for a timing window, but knowing a gank can come at 3:30 and it comes at 3:25 won't help you. I will try to lay out a simple window as it is a good idea except for number 2...

2. It's a ton of work. Not only was it already a lot of work to play all of these junglers for several games, but to go through their popular paths, alternate paths and the like as well as different rune setups is too much work for too little an outcome.

I think the way I could handle it is giving a level range paired with their jungling speed. I will think about this once I am done editing my Jungling 202 guide.