Tier lists are no good in solo q anyways... Either you're good with the champ and you own everyone or you don't do so well and either lose or get carried =P
And in competitive play, they are pretty bad too. Since most teams are made up from champs that serve the needs of the team and are forged for specific playstyles. And in those cases, individual champion strength can be much less deciding then team-coordinated actions. Maybe some sort of generic abilities (such as global map presence) make certain champions more op, but in general, tier lists do not hold true for competitive play. After all, wasn't diamond stomping people with Xin Zhao not so long ago in some qualifiers, although Xin is seen at the bottom of most jungle tier lists?
And in competitive play, they are pretty bad too. Since most teams are made up from champs that serve the needs of the team and are forged for specific playstyles. And in those cases, individual champion strength can be much less deciding then team-coordinated actions. Maybe some sort of generic abilities (such as global map presence) make certain champions more op, but in general, tier lists do not hold true for competitive play. After all, wasn't diamond stomping people with Xin Zhao not so long ago in some qualifiers, although Xin is seen at the bottom of most jungle tier lists?
well tier lists have a point in declaring "OP" champs like malp/ali/naut/shen in soloQ
and anivia/karthus/ryze/irelia/nautilus/malph... in teamgames.
There are champions that just fit every single teamcomp AND win lanes or just scale way to well.
I think tierlists are awesome in that regard, but that would just lead to 3 tiers: OP, situational, useless...
and the useless tier is smaller than people would think.
greez sam
€: yeah forgot about vlad in bost lists^^
and anivia/karthus/ryze/irelia/nautilus/malph... in teamgames.
There are champions that just fit every single teamcomp AND win lanes or just scale way to well.
I think tierlists are awesome in that regard, but that would just lead to 3 tiers: OP, situational, useless...
and the useless tier is smaller than people would think.
greez sam
€: yeah forgot about vlad in bost lists^^
cooper56
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Acid Reigns
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Acid Reigns wrote:
I don't really think so.
Like I said, graves is great, but he doesn't match the other tier one's
Leo isn't 100% reliable, she CAN be better, but so can blitzcrank, unreliable picks should never be tier 1.
I haven't seen how dramatically ori's buffs changed her so far, so she is subject to change, but if we're going by before, she was definately no tier 2.
Kayle and Riven are both great champions, but they don't deserve tier 1. Riven is one of the easiest lanes in the game to snowball against, and that's a very bad trait. She's good, but if she gets ganked a few times early, she's gonna get stomped hard. Kayle is very powerful as well, but she is no Shen, Kennen, or Jax.
Ahri imo is pretty much the very top of tier 2, but she's not tier 1 material.
I don't see why you'd put lux in tier 2, she's pretty aweful imo...
*major facepalm*
Leo is so OP, she can be BETTER? she isn't unreliable, she is super tanky and keeps ppl locked down for like 3 seconds straight.
Graves rapes everyone
Ori is amazing, tons of utility, sustain, AoE damage, displacement, top tier champion even before the changes.
Riven, even if she loses lane (which she doesn't like ever) she can still pick it up easily since she is so strong...you obviously don't know how riven works/have only seen bad ones if you think she is easy to beat...lmfao
Kayle is like the most OP top laner, never loses lanes, has an ult on 30 sec CD that makes her never die, etc...top tier 10000)%
Ahri is amazing, has CC, true damage, 4 flashes with flash up, nothing more to say.
Lux is AWFUL? LOL! She is a top pick by a lot of high Elo players for a reason...has great CC and utility, a long range snipe, rapes so many ppl at the same time...
omg ><
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Acid Reigns
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You exaggerate A LOT.
Also, I didn't say leo could be better, I said she can be better than tier 1 supports in some situations, however she is not as reliable as a janna, or a soraka.
I didn't say riven is easy to beat, just that she's easy to snowball against. If you get an early advantage, what's she gonna do? Nothing, because because she can't fight you anymore, and she's easy to deny farm if you're ahead. The whole thing with riven is that she can fight you, and trade very well, and if you're ahead she can't do that.
And what are you talking about? I have never once seen Lux in high elo, or in a tourney. Do you know why? It's cause she's bad. The only good thing about her are her ranges. She has a lower-slightly higher burst than a lot of mids, and she is entirely reliant on easily dodgable skill shots.
And you're acting like tier 2 is bad. Yes champs like Ahri, or riven are good picks, but how often do you go 'OH NO THEY HAVE RIVEN, SOMEONE DODGE!!!' Never.
Also, I didn't say leo could be better, I said she can be better than tier 1 supports in some situations, however she is not as reliable as a janna, or a soraka.
I didn't say riven is easy to beat, just that she's easy to snowball against. If you get an early advantage, what's she gonna do? Nothing, because because she can't fight you anymore, and she's easy to deny farm if you're ahead. The whole thing with riven is that she can fight you, and trade very well, and if you're ahead she can't do that.
And what are you talking about? I have never once seen Lux in high elo, or in a tourney. Do you know why? It's cause she's bad. The only good thing about her are her ranges. She has a lower-slightly higher burst than a lot of mids, and she is entirely reliant on easily dodgable skill shots.
And you're acting like tier 2 is bad. Yes champs like Ahri, or riven are good picks, but how often do you go 'OH NO THEY HAVE RIVEN, SOMEONE DODGE!!!' Never.
wRAthoFVuLK wrote:
*major facepalm*
Leo is so OP, she can be BETTER? she isn't unreliable, she is super tanky and keeps ppl locked down for like 3 seconds straight.
You're correct on the rest, Wrath, but Leona really isn't the top tier support. She is OP under certain conditions.
All she has is CC, this CC is very skillshot reliant which makes her hard to play correctly and if you play solo q, it can be a living hell trying to coordinate with your AD carry.
Additionally, her late game isn't the best.
Blitz (for w/e reason he was mentioned) is a completely different story since he can literally take people out of position. Leona can't.
I would agree with acid that aggressive supports are unreliable at times. If your lane isn't being aggressive, you can't do ****, just stick around and waste the potential. Additionally, aggressive lanes tend to get ganked like crazy, so you need to have superior map control.
In my understanding, the OP champ in tier lists is the champion that's easy to play and has some ******ed game-winning capabilities. I doubt that Leona fits this definition.
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I dunno, maybe I'll move him up when I see more of him. I try and avoid bot lane anyway, because I hate it, so don't know everything that goes on down there. >.<