Should Garen get buffed?

[quote=Spyroul]Hey everyone, first post here so go easy on me haha :P Okay, so, I'm a level 24 Summoner on EU West, I main Jayce, Wukong and Garen and I personally think Garen is a little bit weaker compared to most people with execution abilities such as Darius and Cho'Gath. So my question here is to more experienced players, should Riot buff Garen, and then how? Personally I'd like the ult to be changed to true damage, or at least reduce the cooldown. His Q is rather decent, so I honestly don't know what more to do to it. when I play Garen I have to wait abnormally much and be useless for so long while waiting for his ult to be there while Darius can spam it as much as he'd like (assuming he's fed).[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]Q needs an early game buff. That's it. It's not Garen is UP or needs a buff, the problem is Darius' ultimate is toxic to the game. Riot has plans to rework it soon[sup]TM[/sup] His execution isn't weak at all tbh. The base damage is stupid high, and the CD is really the only thing holding it back for balance purposes.[/quote]

[quote=Spyroul]Early game buff? What would you suggest they do it then? :O[/quote]

[quote=utopus]In my opinion, Garen's ult is one of the best ultimates in the game; [[Demacian justice]] can stop an olaf from destructinating your poor ashe. It forces mundo to blow is [[sadism]] early, and make his ultimate a lot less effective, for instance. I can come up with more examples if you life. I think that garen's ultimate is more effective at finishing off tanks than cho'gaths [[feast]] or [[noxian guillotine]], but All of the ultimates you mentioned are good at killing off squishies. I think that Garen's ultimate is the best of the ones you listed. It forces the opponent's solotop lane to play extra defensively, because if they at any point go below ~20% health, they are insta-dead from your ultimate. Around level 8-9, your spin to win + ultimate can take out well over half their health, so just keeping your ultimate off cool-down denies the opposing solotop a ton of farm. TL;DR What i like most about garen's [[demacian justice]], is that you don't always have to use it to be successful. Forcing the solotop to recall at 60% health can be just so satisfying at times. I am a cruel person >:D Of course, if you're fed enough as darius or garen, you really won't even need to use your ultimate to secure kills.[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote]Q needs an early game buff. That's it.[/quote] Eh, i beg to differ. If you have a flat-AD rune page, that really helps the damage on that Q. Also, i don't see how RIOT can buff his Q any more. 1.4 AD ratio, CC breaker, and a 1.5 second [[ghost]] every 8 seconds? RIOT's already done so much to this! P.S. Congrats on joining mobafire, spyroul[/quote]

[quote=Xeronn]For harassment and poke purposes, [[Decisive Strike]] does not help very much unless you max it first. The damage is already quite high. I always thought [[Garen]] had a solid early game compared to most champions as long as it isn't a direct counter to him.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]I don't mean buff the damage. The speed duration is stupid weak at level 1. Maybe bump it to 2 or 1.75 seconds. As it is now, any champion with any form of disengage can avoid it and come back when it's down and outtrade Garen ezpz. Garen's ult isn't better for killing tanks, it has zero scaling and doesn't benefit from armor pen, and you probably shouldn't be building mpen on Garen anyway. Much better on squishies with lot Mres and health. Using it to force the other solo top out of lane is basically crippling you for the next 3 minutes. Most execution ults ([[feast]], [[blade of the exile]], [[noxian guillotine]]) all have low cooldowns. Without anything to contest that, you're going to have a bad time.[/quote]

[quote=Xeronn]I agree [[Demacian Justice]] is a lame ult. Now if it dealt physical damage...[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=Xeronn] I agree [[Demacian Justice]] is a lame ult. Now if it dealt physical damage... [/quote] The meta is currently physical damage heavy, resulting in the power of armor-stacking champions like Malphite and basically every single champion ending up at 150+ armor late game. This also means that people tend to build less MR against most teams. If Demacian Justice did physical damage, it would result in an overall drop in Garen's damage unless he builds armor penetration.[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote]Using it to force the other solo top out of lane is basically crippling you for the next 3 minutes[/quote] I guess we are on different pages; Most garens would probably only use the demacian justice if the opposing solotop was below 20% health... to get the kill. A Q + E + R combo around level 8-9 can kill a solotop if they are already at [u]<[/u]50% of their max health. If their solotop is at the 40-60% range, they are forced to lose farm and hug tower, or risk getting comboed + killed. I'm asserting that there is some fear factor that garen puts on solo-tops, and that is the availability of his [[demacian justice]].[/quote]