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The "uncounterable's"?

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April 19, 2012 1:38am
102 posts page 10 of 11 Forums » General Discussion » The "uncounterable's"?
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Crows foot » April 20, 2012 1:48pm | Report
Mooninites you still haven't said why Yorick counters Lee, I have only had good lanes against Yoricks as Lee.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Mooninites » April 20, 2012 6:19pm | Report
i actually did, I said lee has issues landing his Q through yorick ghosts. Additionally, yorick has enough sustain and harass to deal with lee. Yorick is also pretty beefy, and should he get in your face with a Q, you can all-in him and win

i don't think lee can deal with yorick's damage or sustain. It's very hard for yorick to dominate the lane, because his kill potential is pretty low but winning the lane isn't an issue

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Crows foot » April 20, 2012 9:52pm | Report
When I play Lee I rarely use q from a distance, as initiator. A normal trade isn't going on long enough for it to come off cd to use again and you want it more as a finisher than initiator due to the "more damage the lower he is" factor. Yorick goes in to kill a minion, I w to said minion, aa, e, aa , e and walk away. Most of the time I will win that trade or at least go even. Yorick sustain costs mana, mine doesn't so I just activate w double time and hit a few minions and pop a potion. Either I go in for full combo next time or wears his mana down again.

If the fight goes "balls to the walls" before 6 the slow on E will let me walk away or I can w away if I get low. If it does after 6 just a simple q, aa, ignite, R and q will take more than 60 of your healthbar. And I don't see how you can keep above 60% and sustain mana against an aggressive Lee Sin?

And since their slows are as strong, but Lee Sin has two gapclosers and one pure disengage I really can't see him losing that lane due to mechanism at least.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Mooninites » April 20, 2012 10:26pm | Report
I'm not going to bother discussing hypothetical situations, but I think you're vulnerable to yorick's harass. You'll most likely be burning your W to avoid taking ghost damage or regen it. I also think yorick has a lot better sustain because maxing W on lee sin you sacrifice a lot of damage to do that. Yorick really doesn't have to make that sacrifice, sure his Q hits alot harder, but it's very minor in the grand scheme. Additionally Yorick can harass from a range, and the ghosts really bog down his skill shots, so essentially Lee can't engage without using his shield.

I just don't think lee sin can deal with Yorick, but to be frank I don't think many champions can

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by NicknameMy » April 21, 2012 12:11am | Report
Phoenix Stance Udyr destroys Yorick. And btw: I also like Singed vs him. You need to pick s.b. who can outpush him. Singed maybe has not the sustain but post 6 he can poop on him with Catalyst the Protector.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fox Rage » April 21, 2012 8:37am | Report
Acid Reigns wrote:

Cait passive is good for lane phase, but not that great endgame.
I mean, yeah it's a huge buff, but it's only one shot.
On top of that, none of her skills are useful in fights at all, all she really has is her range, and trist destroys her in that regard.

How could you honestly say that cait has a better endgame than corki, or ashe...?

Also, lets compare MF to Cait.

MF has A strong AS buff that causes GW's, an auto attack reset which also does increased damage to a 2nd target (essentially the same as caits passive, as it gives you a free attack, only it hits a 2nd target), an AoE slow, and a long range AoE attack that fires over a channel, and is easy to stop with cc. She is also much faster than cait.

Cait has her passive, an AoE shot with a decently long animation, A single target, short lasting slow, with a small gap creater, and a long range single target attack, that has to channel, and then fires, and is easy to stop with cc, and can be blocked. She also has longer range than MF.

Other than a bit of range, MF has every single edge over cait, in terms of her kit.


I agree 100% with you Acid.

We can all agree that Caitlyn's biggest strenght is her range. But guess what? Twitch, Kog'Maw and Tristana ALL have bigger range than her (if Kog uses W and twitc use R). They also have MUCH more utiility (like potent CC), steroids (Kog's Q and W. I count the range as steroids. Twich's ulti gives him both rangea dn additional AD, and that insane AS buff trist has.). They also ALL have much better late game DPS than a caitlyn with the exact same build.

If you ask me what scares me the most, a caitlyn with 100 kills, or any other ad carry with 100 kills, I'll pick any other ad carry.

I feel like Caitlyn is to the ad carry, what garen is to the solo top, and what leblanc is to the ap carry. Insane early game, but unless they're stupidly fed, they'll become useless late game. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying Garen, leblanc and Caitlyn are the same. I'm just saying the work alike in terms of strenght according to the lenght of the game.

Wayne : I usually go Corki against a Caitlyn. I NEVER get close to her if she has 6+ stack of Headshot. When the stacks resets, I farm. If she tries to poke me with her AA, I use my Q and try to put in 1 AA. Even if i'm not succesful in using that 1 AA on her, I still outdamaged her. And if she makes the mistake of using her Q, I usually engage right away, knowing that'll dodge her Q.

By not getting closed to her when she has 6+ Headshot stack, she's gonna push me to tower. Result : I can still free farm and our jungler can gank. Works EVERY SINGLE time. I kept getting demolished by caitlyn's before I start doing this. And yes, I've faced tons of Caitlyn. She's the AD carry I see the most at my ELO atm.


Let's compare Cait and Ashe.

Ashe : Long range, Perma-slow, Free moving ward every 60 sec or so, earns bonus gold for every CS, long range stun, Not so easy to dodge skillshot

Caitlyn : Slightly bigger range than Ashe, an easy as hell to dodge skillshot, an also easy as hell to evade trap, a ridiculously small dash with a minor slow, an ultimate that requires channeling and is really easy to intercept.

Cait, since she has a bit more range, can kite ashe a bit early on. All Ashe has to do, is turn around, use volley and run away. Ashe did more damage than cait (taking into account that cait didn't proc Headshot), and cait is slowed, allowing a potential gank from the jungler/mid. Ashe did a few mistake and has 15 less CS than cait. But it doesn't matter, since Ashe makes more gold than cait for every cs.

Ashe got camped hard by the enemy jungler and got dived a lot. Sadly, Caitlyn got fed. In the teamfight, Ashe position herself well and use her ultimate on Cait. Cait gets stun and the fight is engaged. Cait get murdered right away., while the rest of her team who tries to flee are all slowed as hell.

Winenr : Ashe. Better late game DPS potential and HAS A LOT more utility than a Caitlyn.

I just can't believe you could write cait could possibly even hope of having a higher late game DPS than a Corki.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Luther3000 » April 21, 2012 10:36am | Report
Please god tell me you did not just compare Caitlyn to Garen and LB, say Ashe does more damage than Caitlyn and then construct a perfect teamfight scenario to prove that Ashe is better.

I can't really take you seriously after reading that.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by LaronX » April 21, 2012 2:11pm | Report
I just pretend to have read that Fox Rage so I don't have to post a wall of Text here.
Just some fun facts. Ashes dmg is the lowst of ALL AD carrys. Even some Bruiser scale better into the late game. Cait is one of the stongest AD carrys late game becaus her passiv gives her a free crit every 6 atk and that crit can crit. That is also the reasone why it is weak mid game. You got no Ad or crit to back it up.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by EvilDice » April 22, 2012 11:40am | Report
ASHE HITS AD CARRY WITH ARROW. AD CARRY DIES. CAIT CLEARLY **** NOW POINT PROVEN.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Vitigam » April 22, 2012 12:12pm | Report
^lol

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