Topic of the Week - 1 Month Assessment of Karma

[quote=Alan Lyxion]Biggest problems I see are her Mantra'd Q almost never hitting (because it takes so long to explode) and how long it takes between Mantra buffs. She needs to either be an APC or a support (and get better at one of those [or both if Riot really buffs her]), but ATM she doesn't really even work as a supporty APC, which seems to be the best option. All in all, if Riot looked at how they nerfed her with the rework and buffed her abilities, she'd be good.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]shes meant to be a utility mage (morg lux orianna) but shes outclassed by all three of them[/quote]

[quote=Aharan]I really enjoy the new Karma. I will always miss the old Karma, but I do enjoy this new one. She's fun to play, and while the Mantra changes do weaken her overall game due to lack of any noticeable oomph or impact, I still play her as one of my mids. Her Mantra'd Q is more team-fight orientated from what I see, with the AoE explosion gaining more power as it ranks up, and if you are in a clusterf*** of a teamfight, that will do some serious damage. Don't forget the added damage just on the missile itself. Mantra'd W is intersting. It rewards somewhat high-risk plays with sustain and bonus damage, and it can actually be useful if getting ganked, so you can heal yourself and snare the jungler coming in with that nasty CC. Mantra'd E...all I can say is "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LES GO, 4v5 UNDER THEIR TOWER, WE GOT THIS". Karma is dead, long live Karma.[/quote]

[quote=SpawnOfHell]Don't quote me on this, but I vaguely remember somewhere that a Rioter confessed (think it was Morello?) that they're deliberately making reworks on the underpowered side at the start simply because it's 'easier to buff than it is to nerf'. I think this is the case with Karma, they're aware she's not very strong right now, but they intend on changing things. Personally, I think she just needs a better form of wave clear and more equalized range and she'd be good to go with some cooldown changes being a possibility. You'd think [[inner flame]] is a strong wave clear but it's not. The explosion radius it pitiful so most of the time you only blow up the melee minions at the front and don't even kill them unless you [[mantra]] it... not a good idea. And once she uses her Q she has absolutely nothing to clear minions with so it's so easy to shove her to the tower and make her lose farm while you go and roam to your heart's content. I mean when you compare Karma's farming to gals like Orianna and Syndra you're just like... bleh. And not to mention it burns her mana pool horribly. I mean, 90 mana on an ability with 4-5 second cooldown... I find myself forced to buy [[archangel's staff]] or [[athene's unholy grail]] just to not run dry in lane. [[focused resolve]] is awful. It's like they took all the bad aspects of Viktor's [[gravity field]] (not saying it's bad, just saying it has weaknesses) and were like, hey let's change the stun to a snare and make it single target and take even longer to go off, and keep the terrible range! The pathetic damage doesn't even make up for the hundred flaws it has especially since I don't think anyone even levels that thing before Q and E. And who even Mantras that thing? It doesn't increase the duration, the damage is negligible, and the healing is only good when you're almost dead and even then you're healing at a range where you'd probably just get bursted and killed. This needs the most work of new Karma imo. As for her shield, I have mixed feelings for it. The MS boost is nice, not gonna lie, but I feel like the shield itself is never really saving my life when I really need it. It doesn't even closely resemble old Karma's shield in strength and spammability. I'm actually even just thinking about levelling it last just because the cooldown doesn't scale with ranks and I can just use Mantra to get the 60% MS boost if I really want the speed to initiate. I loved her old shield, this new one feels... different. Like, it's an ok shield, just not Karma's shield. I don't like this new Karma. She'll probably be viable with a few buffs, but I just don't like her at all. Her shield, one of her defining old aspects, doesn't feel like hers anymore, and her new tether is so pathetic like [[leblanc]]'s could give her a run for her money. I personally think this is one of the worse reworks Riot's done, though I know many might disagree.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]That'd odd because I've also seen Rioters say something along the lines of "It's easier to nerf an overpowered champion than it is to buff an underpowered one without it becoming overpowered somehow."[/quote]

[quote=SpawnOfHell][quote=OTGBionicArm] That'd odd because I've also seen Rioters say something along the lines of "It's easier to nerf an overpowered champion than it is to buff an underpowered one without it becoming overpowered somehow." [/quote] I might've got that mixed up. But I definitely remember that was Morello's response to the constant complaints towards Riot's nerf spree and that they never seem to give significant buffs to underpowered champions. I swear I could remember him saying something about the imbalance that overpowered champions cause for the game being much greater than the effect an underpowered one has. Maybe that's just my poor memory though.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]thats because underpowered champions are underpowered because of their kits, and they can only really buff numbers not kits like for hiemer they can change his numbers all they want but his flaws are in his kit[/quote]

[quote=PainisOrange]Karma went from a finicky champion who needed items and farm, but reached a point late game where her utility allowed her to stay in teamfights far longer than expected (building tanky and whatnot) and giving deceptive damage, to one that demands a strong team as she will be useless late The biggest setback to Karma's old kit was how much everyone on your team had to know your toolkit, skillset, and playstyle to maximize her efficiency. The payoff if you did have a team that realized that was a support who could be dangerous and tanky late coupled with a mid who could be highly bursty and survivable. New karma has the EXACT same drawbacks: not knowing her toolkit intrinsically will immediately lose you the lane, as her poke is lackluster. However, there is now no payoff to knowing her toolkit: she isn't a team buffing tanky support, a bursty caster, or anything...she's just there. Her AoE heal is gone, replaced with a situational shield/ms buff, a skillshot slow, a long, drawn out snare. Basically, they took 65% of her toolkit, nerfed it in the interest of "ease of understanding", and then shipped it out, sans AoE heal. Bad rework[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=OTGBionicArm] That'd odd because I've also seen Rioters say something along the lines of "It's easier to nerf an overpowered champion than it is to buff an underpowered one without it becoming overpowered somehow." [/quote] You are correct and it was Morello. I can't find the exact quote but it did pertain to the [[Karma]] rework.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]As a [[karma]] player (lugignaf, dillbutt64, and throatslasher are the only other ones that come to mind on this site), I have to say I was pretty disappointed with the rework. Most problems weren't fixed and some new problems arose. Things that specifically come to mind: [list] [*] [[Gathering Fire]] (passive) requires you to hit enemies with your spells and auto's constantly given the new mantra cooldown [*] [[Inner Flame]] (Q) damage has pretty low base with decent ratio [*] [[Focused Resolve]] (W) is easily broken, mantra'd W while seeming very strong, has minimal real, in-game uses from the support role [*] [[Inspire]] (E) Decent shield value, on par with Janna's but lower ratio and weaker buff. The movement speed is strong in bursts [*] [[Mantra]] (ult) is an even longer cooldown than before. The old Mantra was on a charge system and gained one charge every 26 seconds, this new mantra is on a 45 second cooldown, stores no charges, and requires you to Auto or cast spells to lower the CD (or build CDR). All around this is a huge nerf. If 26 seconds was seen as too long, then I wonder how riot got mixed up and made the new Mantra a 45 second cooldown [*] fairly low range on all of her abilities, paired with minimal mobility. E speed increase is nice, but hardly makes her a mobile champion. [*] high mana costs with low base mana and average mana regen [/list] I don't think she's much of a support anymore. I think she's more of a utility mid, but as dillbutt said, she's weaker than her counterparts of orianna, lux, morgana, anivia, etc.[/quote]