Does my idea for items for Miss Fortune make...

[quote=kmph]Well, I chose MF due to me being a noob and her having 1 difficulty rating. And I grinded her up to mastery score 5. In the meantime, I thought up some kind of an item set for her I was using for some time. And I’d like to know if it makes any sense. So. My principles were: • To maximize her DPS – meaning AD, AS, crit • To give her decent life steal, so that I don’t have to panic about little scratches cumulating fast and so that I don’t have to go back for healing ridiculously often • To give her good mobility I was usually buying a Long Sword at the very beginning, and then my goal was to survive in the lane long enough so that I can afford Vampiric Scepter. Hopefully this will contribute to my survivability much enough to enable me to actually stay in the lane. My next goal usually was to build the above into The Bloodthirster. • It increases to AD which syncs nicely with Strut • Good lifesteal for survivability Then I was striving for Berserker’s Greaves with Furor. Shoes are needed for mobility, Berserker’s because it also builds DPS which is also a goal. Furor for chasing and running away. (I was experimenting with Distortion, but I found Flash and Ghost having too long cooldowns for that to be of use) By this time I was usually bumping into the problem of me not being able to scratch bulkies like Garen. Despite focusing on DPS, I was dealing negligible damage to them. So my next item I was striving for usually was Blade of the Ruined King. It’s % damage finally can at least scratch those who have tons of HP. Plus, it has lifesteal. If the game was still not over, I was usually building Mercurial Scimitar now. It adds AD, and I’m short of AD, so I need it. With Scimitar, at least my ult can deal decent damage. And it adds to mobility and lifesteal, so all my goals are met. I considered the above ones a priority mainly due to their lifesteal so I was trying to build them rather early. I found 40% lifesteal very effective, it is very nice not to have to care about little damage now and then, also with this setup MF can recover on minions soon. Also such lifesteal enables MF to shred large amounts of minions on her own, which is also nice, as this mitigates the damage they deal to her. Afterwards, if the game was not over already, I was trying to take care of crit (the only aspect of DPS not buffed yet), meaning Infinity Edge and Phantom Dancer to max out DPS. I was experimenting with Statikk Shiv, Rapid Firecannon (to max out benefits from Energized Strike) and maybe even Runaan’s Hurricane. While this was making MF an **awesome** minion slayer, I found her effectiveness against enemy champs with such setting to drop so badly that eventually I resigned from these items. One problem is that I’m still not quite able to damage tanks much. I’m wondering if bringing in Lord Dominik’s Regards in lieu of Phantom Dancer or Infinity Edge or maybe even Mercurial Scimitar wouldn’t make sense if facing bulky tanks (I wouldn’t like the loss of Mercurial, but otherwise I’m not going to build these Regards anytime soon…) With this setup, I can usually outduel other MFs, but I remember facing a Kog’Maw. He was always able to outduel me, and he had Ruined King, Mercurial, Phantom, Runaan’s, Statikk, Rapid Firecannon. I find this strange. Summoner’s Spells: Flash and Ghost, for mobility. Strut can fail too often, I need a backup. Skills. Overall, I was focusing much on Strut, as it both increases DPS and movement speed, which is nice. Double Up was usually a harassing tool for me. I didn’t find Make It Rain useful, on the other hand: while the spell itself is definitely nice, it costs so peculiar amounts of mana that I would have to buy mana items to be able to put this spell to any good use. So, I was using it only rarely. My lv. 1 investment usually was Strut, to maximize DPS vs. minions. I didn’t find Double Up effective that early, and I laughed when other MFs were investing in Make It Rain, as it was doing negligible damage to us anyway. Lv 2 investment usually was Double Up, to be able to start harassing other champs. Lv 3 was Make It Rain, just in case I really needed to slow sb at least a tiny bit. Then I was investing in Strut, except when I couldn’t, and then I was buying Double Up. I was buing Bullet Time promptly at lv. 6, 11 and 16. But I found ult to be only of limited usefulness early on, however, due to enemies being able to escape from it rather easily. Things were changing in teamfights, then I could strike ult on numbers of enemies from behind my team, as well as Make It Rain, and they were too busy fighting to even think of escaping. (another reason to buy Make It Rain lately) OK. So. As above – does this make any sense at all, or is this pure noobishness?[/quote]

[quote=Ekki]To put it short, you are focused in the right problems but end up proposing subpar solutions. [quote=kmph]So. My principles were: • To maximize her DPS – meaning AD, AS, crit • To give her decent life steal, so that I don’t have to panic about little scratches cumulating fast and so that I don’t have to go back for healing ridiculously often • To give her good mobility[/quote]Knowing that you have to maximize DPS as an adc is a great start. Some people try to be a bit tanky, a bit bruiser-y and have a bit more of mana, all of that while neglecting more than 2 damage items. You're skewed in the other direction by focusing too hard on lifesteal though. I know where that comes from, I still drift towards lifesteal in the wrong parts of my build when I play adc because it makes me feel safe, but you have to learn to play with the 3-8% lifesteal you can start with until you finish at least two full damage items. This has been the state of the meta for at least a year in the majority of adcs and it probably won't change this season. That is, first get AD+crit, then attsp+crit and only then a bit of lifesteal but maybe armor penetration if there are too many tanks. Then in the end you can buy one very defensive item like [[sterak's gage]], [[banshee's veil]], [[guardian angel]] or whatever else the pros build right now. You must be able to balance focusing in the most optimal stats for your champion and the side stats so that your weaknesses don't get too weak. [quote=kmph]I was usually buying a Long Sword at the very beginning, and then my goal was to survive in the lane long enough so that I can afford Vampiric Scepter. Hopefully this will contribute to my survivability much enough to enable me to actually stay in the lane. My next goal usually was to build the above into The Bloodthirster. • It increases to AD which syncs nicely with Strut • Good lifesteal for survivability[/quote]You should start with a [[doran's blade]]. That plus five points in [[vampirism]] will give you a nice 5% lifesteal (half a [[vampiric scepter]]) that can last you for a long time if you learn to avoid damage and/or have a healing/shielding support. Rushing [[the bloodthirster]] first is a bad idea because you'd be dealing less damage than with, say, [[infinity edge]] only to have marginal gains in lifesteal since your AD+attsp+crit is really low that early in the game. If you reeeeally like lifesteal you can run 2-3 [[greater quintessence of life steal]] to start with 8-9.5% lifesteal with doran's+masteries. With [[miss fortune]] you can build a second item [[the bloodthirster]] though as she already gains decent attack speed from [[strut]], so you can focus on AD with only [[berserker's greaves]] for attack speed. [quote=kmph]Then I was striving for Berserker’s Greaves with Furor. Shoes are needed for mobility, Berserker’s because it also builds DPS which is also a goal. Furor for chasing and running away. (I was experimenting with Distortion, but I found Flash and Ghost having too long cooldowns for that to be of use)[/quote]You shouldn't upgrade your boots before having around 3 full items plus the boots. Movement speed isn't too important early in the game and, even if it sounds counter-intuitive, it scales with your damage and level, so buying it before having the stats to make use of the upgrade is a bad idea. [quote=kmph]Summoner’s Spells: Flash and Ghost, for mobility. Strut can fail too often, I need a backup.[/quote]You should use [[flash]]+[[heal]]/[[barrier]]/[[cleanse]], not [[ghost]]. [[ghost]] doesn't give any defense and is hard-countered by slows. It's also balanced to be used over its full duration, which is very long and you would probably not use because you either die or kill your enemies too fast. [[heal]] has been the standard for adc since its rework. It gives movement speed too, which seems to be of your liking :P [quote=kmph]By this time I was usually bumping into the problem of me not being able to scratch bulkies like Garen. Despite focusing on DPS, I was dealing negligible damage to them.[/quote]If you can't deal with them you should buy [[last whisper]] or its bonus damage to tanks upgrade. It's there for that specific reason. [[blade of the ruined king]] is good too, but you get a greater increase in damage with the penetration+bonus damage to tanks, given it's your 4th-5th item. [quote=kmph]I found 40% lifesteal very effective, it is very nice not to have to care about little damage now and then, also with this setup MF can recover on minions soon. Also such lifesteal enables MF to shred large amounts of minions on her own, which is also nice, as this mitigates the damage they deal to her.[/quote]Effective is not the correct word here. As a squishy high damage champion, 20% lifesteal is more than enough to get over half your health pool from a single minion wave given that you have enough AD+crit. Also mitigating damage from minions shouldn't be a problem to be solved with items. By late game it shouldn't be a problem at all. You're better off trying to kill your targets faster than caring about a bigger % of your damage going back to your health pool. [quote=kmph]With this setup, I can usually outduel other MFs, but I remember facing a Kog’Maw. He was always able to outduel me, and he had Ruined King, Mercurial, Phantom, Runaan’s, Statikk, Rapid Firecannon. I find this strange.[/quote][[kog'maw]] is the single hardest scaling champion in the game right now. Nothing strange here, you won't be able to outduel him late game in a 1v1. Also, [[miss fortune]] isn't a good duelist. Her passive requires her to change targets in order to maximise her damage. [quote=kmph]Skills. Overall, I was focusing much on Strut, as it both increases DPS and movement speed, which is nice. Double Up was usually a harassing tool for me. I didn’t find Make It Rain useful, on the other hand: while the spell itself is definitely nice, it costs so peculiar amounts of mana that I would have to buy mana items to be able to put this spell to any good use. So, I was using it only rarely.[/quote]IDK her exact skill priority but I think [[double up]] is maxed first, then [[strut]], since the attack speed and movement speed don't scale well in the first 9 levels. You shouldn't underrate [[make it rain]] so much, it's a great zoning tool that was plainly OP a couple of months ago. It's good that you want to control your mana though, you shouldn't be getting mana regen so your only option there is avoid spamming spells needlessly. [quote=kmph]I laughed when other MFs were investing in Make It Rain, as it was doing negligible damage to us anyway.[/quote]You shouldn't. Damage is not everything in the game. If your support was, for example, [[braum]] and could outduel the 2v2, taking [[make it rain]] first would be a great idea for the disengage. [quote=kmph]Lv 3 was Make It Rain, just in case I really needed to slow sb at least a tiny bit.[/quote]Most champions should have their three abilities by level 3, and [[miss fortune]] is part of the norm here. Not having [[make it rain]] by level 3 means you could get ganked and won't have the disengage needed to survive. [quote=kmph]I was buing Bullet Time promptly at lv. 6, 11 and 16. But I found ult to be only of limited usefulness early on, however, due to enemies being able to escape from it rather easily. Things were changing in teamfights, then I could strike ult on numbers of enemies from behind my team, as well as Make It Rain, and they were too busy fighting to even think of escaping. (another reason to buy Make It Rain lately)[/quote]Exactly why [[make it rain]] is so useful. You should get used to doing the E+R combo anytime you want to use [[bullet time]]. The ult is great when the entire enemy team is together and your allies are close in order to apply CC and prevent your enemies from escaping. This doesn't happen early so the ult feels underwhelming. It isn't though. Lastly, most adcs follow a pretty standard build path. [[miss fortune]] can deviate from it, but the standard build is still good on her if you're not sure what to build. [list] [*]1°) [[infinity edge]]/[[essence reaver]] for the high AD+crit. Remember that [[essence reaver]] needs 30% crit from other items to get full efficiency from it. [*]*Buy [[berserker's greaves]] somewhere between 1° and 2° full item. [*]2°) [[rapid firecannon]]/[[statikk shiv]]/[[runaan's hurricane]]/[[phantom dancer]] for the attack speed+crit that scales off the first AD+crit item. Each of them has a main focus, I'd say [[statikk shiv]] should be the choice on MF. [*]3°) [[blade of the ruined king]]/[[the bloodthirster]]/[[mercurial scimitar]] for some lifesteal since you already have decent damage for the lifesteal to be noticeable. [[mercurial scimitar]] is a must against some assassins like [[zed]]. [*]You can buy a boot upgrade somewhere after your third full item. Alacrity and Furor are the ones suited for adc. [*]4°) Any of [[last whisper]]'s upgrades, since champions start to have enough armor to make it worth it this late into the game. If there aren't any tanks you can buy [[youmuu's ghostblade]]/[[maw of malmortius]] or any of the items you didn't buy from the previous 3 groups instead. [*]5°) A defensive item according to your needs. [[sterak's gage]]/[[guardian angel]]/[[banshee's veil]] are quite standard afaik. [/list] [[miss fortune]] can skip the attack speed item (2° in the list) and replace it for something with AD, but I haven't played her for a while and last time I did [[essence reaver]] was just released and very powerful on her so it warped the entire build path.[/quote]

[quote=TheSilverDust]I'll respond too! Yeah, you talked about the problems that Sarah (that's [[Miss Fortune]]'s first name) had, but I had to agree with Ekki: you made suboptimal solutions. It's nice that you need to maximize her DPS, for Sarah is an ADC. But you focused too much on lifesteal. We know that the shield from [[The Bloodthirster]] can help with one of Sarah's weakness, which is lack of escapes. But I thought that she should build some AD and Crit to be an effective ADC. But if you're really inclining to lifesteal you can build [[The Bloodthirster]] as a second item. And no, do not upgrade your boots that early. Get that at least when you're on your 4th-6th item. And [[Flash]] and [[Ghost]] is not good (source: from my experience and my ADC's experience when I am a support). Take [[Flash]] and [[Heal]]: it can give you health and nice movement speed. Having problems dealing with tanky champions? Build a [[Last Whisper]] item ([[Lord Dominik's Regards]] against really high health champions like [[Illaoi]] and [[Garen]], [[Mortal Reminder]] against some with loads of healing like [[Dr. Mundo]] and [[Vladimir]]) to penetrate that armor of theirs, though it penetrates on [u]% of their bonus armor[/u] or [[Blade of the Ruined King]], since you like to crush tanks and love lifesteal and attack speed. I disagree with the 40% lifesteal part. I have to agree with Ekki with having 20% lifesteal to be suffice enough. And you should not find it strange to be beaten by a [[Kog'Maw]] late game. It's a hypercarry who can duel (maybe, he could still blow up in a duel though). Sarah isn't. Her skill order varies. I think [[Bullet Time]]->[[Make it Rain]]->[[Strut]]->[[Double Up]] is optimal and used by the pros. I think maxing [[Make it Rain]] first is optimal for it can proc [[Thunderlord's Decree]] easier and the slow scales on level, which makes escaping from [[Make it Rain]]+[[Bullet Time]] a bit harder. So don't laugh at us who main Sarah religiously. And I'm maxing [[Double Up]] last for the damage packs a punch even if it's level 1 (if you killed that minion on the first shot). [[Bullet Time]]->[[Double Up]]->[[Strut]]->[[Make it Rain]] is still good, but I think the former skill order is more optimal than the latter. So my main items for Sarah is this: 1. [[Essence Reaver]] - this item became so good to Sarah, especially the fact that her ult crits makes her gain mana! You need more crit chance for this item to be really effective though! 2.[[Boots of Swiftness]] - So I am one of the persons who tends to build different items on other champions. So I built this item instead of [[Berserker's Greaves]] because of the bonus attack speed that I got from [[Strut]] when I activate it and the movement speed and the slow reduction is good! (Alternative: [[Ninja Tabi]] or [[Mercury's Treads]]) 3. [[Infinity Edge]] - Sarah is one of the ADCs who can really benefit on crit chance and increased crit damage! So I think that this item is really optimal on her! 4. [[Rapid Firecannon]] - So the diversity of attack speed items is really nice this season! I chose this item because it takes a significant amount of damage to turrets and when added with [[Love Tap]], it packs a wallop to a turret! Well, that's all that I can share! *[[Spirit Rush]]es away*[/quote]

[quote=kmph]Thank you for your answers. One thing I still can’t understand, however, is why is [[Make It Rain]] so recommended early on? The way I figure it out, if I level [[Make It Rain]] heavily early on, I will have to keep it almost unused anyway, since it is too mana hungry. So, the points will be wasted for most of the time. Good bye DPS from [[Strut]]… The question whether to level [[Strut]] or [[Make It Rain]] is to me equivalent to the question whether to level an ability that will be used heavily or an ability that I will only be able to use very sparingly. [[Make It Rain]] will be idle for most of the time. [[Strut]] is being switched on every time I enter combat, and it increases my DPS **twice** at max rank – and DPS is supposed to be most important on ADC? Plus, it can be a life saver when being chased, and sometimes can even enable me to chase and kill someone. [[Make It Rain]] can be used for that purpose too, but it has somewhat long casting time which may be unacceptable when being chased, and when chasing it may fail due to the target being out of it’s reach. All of this, plus the fact that [[Miss Fortune]] has the worst base movement speed in game (tied with several other champs), it pretty much seems to me that [[Strut]] is the core ability for MF… I’m not exactly arguing, I’m just failing to understand. Where is my mistake, how am I overrating [[Strut]]?[/quote]

[quote=Ekki][[strut]] has great 1-point utility, but doesn't scale too well until after you have some items, that's why it's maxed second. Attack speed increases the damage from your AD, but if you don't have AD you'll be dealing more damage with the base damage from your other spells than with an increase in attack speed. This is the first thing you should understand. MF isn't intended to be constantly abusing her attack speed. Her passive requires her to switch targets, which won't be optimal during laning phase. Even in the best-case scenario, which would be being able to attack both the adc and the support back to back, the enemy adc would deal more damage to you if it's any champion other than [[miss fortune]]. That leaves you being better off doing damage in bursts, at least during laning phase. This is why I prefer maxing [[double up]] first myself, but apparently it's the reason why the pros max [[make it rain]]. [[make it rain]]'s mana cost doesn't go up with level, so maxing it shouldn't increase your mana consumption unless you're spamming it (which you shouldn't, as you pointed out). I still don't feel sure about maxing it first, but if professional players do it there's not much I can do about it. I'm guessing the damage from [[thunderlord's decree]] plus [[make it rain]]'s base damage and a single basic attack with [[love tap]] deals too much RELIABLE damage as opposed to having to hit a clutch [[double up]] that's easy to avoid with good positioning. This is all speculation as I haven't tried that maxing priority.[/quote]

[quote=sanyona]Previous comments have already explained a lot of things, so I'm gonna be lazy and short xD. I'm MF main, I always build essence reaver first, infinity edge, while getting some AS and lifesteal. You're adc, your w gives you bonus AS when activated, so I tend to build more towards AD first. It's always awesome to look at the enemy adc and see that you have 100 more AD. :3 If you're behind in lane, then I suggest you get a vampire scepter, but theres no need to rush BT. My normal build path: Essence reaver - IE - Stattik (or other speed item) - boots (if i have enough gold) - BT - Lord dom You can always get Mercurial scimitar if theres a lot cc, but i usually dont buy it, though the extra ad and magic resist is nice For skill sequence, i dont suggest maxing w first, it really has not much use as you think there is, just movement speed and only AS when its active normally I go q-e-w, there are people who take e first for tl, but i think q is better for trading in lane. is this all? maybe it is xD[/quote]