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How much is skill, how much is champs?!

Creator: JBucketzEsq
July 20, 2012 9:54am
11 posts page 1 of 2 Forums » New Player Help » How much is skill, how much is champs?!
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by JBucketzEsq » July 20, 2012 9:54am | Report
Hey guys, question coming out of the low-elo games I play in. I definitely have a lot to learn, but I've gotten to the point where I pretty much have timers on both team's buffs, can be pretty confident in where the enemy jungler is, etc. Basically, I feel like I have pretty good map awareness.

My question is how much of whether you win or not really depends on player skill, and how much depends on champions you pick. I run into this alot, for instance, if I pick mundo to jungle, well, I can just abuse their jungler all game, and pretty much snowball the lane. If I pick someone who is NOT a good duelist in the jungle, I ahve to pray that I don't get abused in return, and hope that my lanes don't push so I can at least get a gank off somewhere. Also, in my estimation, I am usually baffled when people die in 1v1 or 2v2 situations in lane, w no jungler assistance. They of course immediately rage at the jungler for not ganking, to which I respond - why fight?

Another example is mid lane. I have great success with someone like fizz, who has great potential to land a 1v1 kill at level 6, and great roaming potential. Other laners though don't have that kill potential, and I really struggle on those kind of champs. It just seems like you put yourself at a MASSIVE disadvantage by choosing champs that can't overtake a game completely on their own, without relying on others.

I really would love to play more support/utility based champs (not necessarily supports), but I just can never seem to win much with them.

So what do you think, should I only be picking champs that can snowball a lane or jungle and the game themselves?

EDIT: Oh, and yea, I just wonder, I mean skill has to be a HUGE part of it. I'm guessing if azingy or someone palyed fiddlesticks at my elo, they would stomp the game. So what am i missing to take advantage of those kinda champs?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by A Chubby Baby » July 20, 2012 10:03am | Report
i think it's like 90% skill and 10% champ.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by JBucketzEsq » July 20, 2012 10:11am | Report
Oops, sorry for doublepost :(
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Jpikachu1999 » July 20, 2012 10:13am | Report
It's a combination of both. If you are really really bad at the game, or role, then you are probably gonna lose. If you pick a terrible jungle (talking jungle at the moment here, just for an example), like, I dunno, Leona jungle, you are probably gonna lose.

I'd say it's like this is lower ELO:

Champ 70% > Skill 30%

Mid ELO (1400 - 1600)

Champ 55% > Skill 45%

High ELO (1800+)

Skill 70% > Champ 30%

At all stages, you could argue that skill is still the most important, because you can then stomp people with less skill. However, champ picks and matchups are very important. If you watch high ELO streamers (Dyrus, TheOddOne), you'll see so many trollish picks, but they still do amazingly. You could say that you could win with anyone if you had enough skill, but it's pretty obvious some work better than others. Once you get to High ELO though, you probably have enough experience and skill to make use of almost any champion.

Mid lane example: Someone then picks Galio into your Fizz and proceeds to stomp you in lane and wreck you in teamfights. Just because a mid laner isn't good at ganking, doesn't mean they can't influence the game on their own. If someone can out CS you while you're ganking everywhere, they'll ultimately outscale you and make quite a difference in the game while you're gold starved.

Azingy plays Fiddlesticks and Jungle Karthus and who knows what else at his ELO, somewhere around 2300. He's probably plays around 10 or more ranked games per day, he has a lot of experience, and a lot of time to build up skill. If you want to be really good at this game, you'd have to practice a lot.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by JBucketzEsq » July 20, 2012 10:29am | Report
Thank you for the response. I'm going to start a new thread on practice habits/tips because I think that's something that a lot of people may have an opinion on, and alot of newer players such as myself could really benefit from
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by The Overmyynd » July 20, 2012 5:51pm | Report



I'd say it's like this is lower ELO:

Champ 70% > Skill 30%

Mid ELO (1400 - 1600)

Champ 55% > Skill 45%

High ELO (1800+)

Skill 70% > Champ 30%




^ This.

But, if you want "supporty" type characters that can still dish out a serious buttwhuppin, there are 3 characters i play all the time in support role that really arent "support" characters per se. Maokai, Nunu, and Zilean. These guys do amazingly well building for tanky AP instead of the general GP5 early game and tanky build later.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Somalie » July 21, 2012 5:44am | Report
Thinking it's the skill that matters the most help to feel good when picking the wrong champ in a game.

Thinking it's the champ that matters the most help to feel good when doing bad.


Quoted:
It just seems like you put yourself at a MASSIVE disadvantage by choosing champs that can't overtake a game completely on their own, without relying on others.


So why do we play AD carries ?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Lugignaf » July 21, 2012 12:47pm | Report
Somalie wrote:

So why do we play AD carries ?

Without an ADC, games last unnecessarily long because you don't have a strong tower pusher. They also have strong-ish teamfight presence because they can just hang back and auto-attack things to death. Some have to use skills(Graves/Ezreal) but most just R-click and do fine.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Somalie » July 22, 2012 1:38pm | Report
And all have to rely on mates.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Otaku108 » July 27, 2012 9:33pm | Report
I've been playing now for about a year I guess, accumulated about half the champs and filled up 7 rune pages, yet I'm still not an expert player by any stretch of the imagination. I know that's a little off topic but I wanted to give a little background so anyone can kinda get an idea of what my knowledge base is and put however much stock in what I say that they feel prudent.

All that being said, there are two very important things to consider when talking player skills vs champs.

1) Synergy with your chosen champ. In other words, how well you know and work with them.
a) IE: I play Lux Mid and I pwn, I play Morgana Mid and I fail. Similar skill sets, totally different outcomes.
2) Overall Team Player Skill. What you know how to do as a team player in your chosen role.
a) IE: Supports don't CS, overall map awareness, or when and where to initiate a team fight. Essentially your game knowledge and application.

In the end, I think what makes the different is player skill, very rarely will I say we lost a game due to a bad champ selection, unless talking team comp. xP

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