An interesting take on pirating

[quote=Toshabi][quote=MyRepublic] Basically the main problem with saying that piracy hurts sales is that most pirates weren't going to buy the game to start with, thus you can't say they cost you any money. [/quote] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uhYm8nLdb0[/youtube][/quote]

[quote=caucheka][quote=MyRepublic] Basically the main problem with saying that piracy hurts sales is that most pirates weren't going to buy the game to start with, thus you can't say they cost you any money. [/quote] you will never know the ratio of ones that would of bought to the ones that wouldn't.[/quote]

[quote=MyRepublic]Lol thinkin I pirate games just for making a point you guys don't like. I hate pirates, but trying to say they're causing you to lose money is an impossible thing. Just as you pointed out that I can't prove they wouldn't have bought them you can't prove any would have, thus proving your own points invalid. And that was my point. Now carry on with your circle jerk.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]im not arguing with you, i'm just stating that you will never have any cohesive numbers, no matter whos side you're on.[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi][quote=MyRepublic] Now carry on with your circle jerk. [/quote] Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous. Jealous.[/quote]

[quote=MyRepublic]I can circle jerk with my own friends. Right now we're talking about me playing lissandra.[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi][quote=MyRepublic] I can circle jerk with my own friends. Right now we're talking about me playing lissandra. [/quote] But you can't circle jerk with Toshabi.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]why would i want to do that?[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Bioalchemist] i might be mistaken but i think the article you sent me to show me I was stupid in my original comment said you need to build piracy into your cost structure..but..how can you estimate the 'rate of piracy'?[/quote] You can't measure or estimate the 'rate of piracy'. It's impossible right now. What I meant for you to realize through that blog post was that: [b]Pirates cannot, by the very definition of digital replication make anybody lose money. <- FACT They can reduce the money earned, but since it's not possible to measure this in any concrete way one should not spend money on [i]trying[/i](and failing in the case of DRM) to reduce the amount of piracy, especially when that money could be spent on making the game better or cheaper to make.[/b] (which is especially useful with the spiraling development costs nowadays) [quote=lifebaka] If someone pirates a game and then the game doesn't work because of its DRM, that person is going to assume that [i]the game doesn't work[/i]. Not that they shouldn't have pirated it. And then they are going to tell their friends that [i]the game doesn't work[/i]. So piracy-prevention DRM doesn't turn pirates into customers, doesn't tend to prevent piracy, and can adversely impact sales in addition to these two problems. (Oh, and it costs money.)[/quote] That's one possible scenario, yes. But that exact scenario is probably very rare because it relies on the person being really stupid or simply mislabeling things. A more reasonable scenario would be that somebody plays an always-on game and gets really annoyed by server problems, so he tells all his friends to avoid that game. The game just lost a bunch of sales [b]because[/b] of DRM. But the bottom line is, as you said, that DRM really doesn't help the publishers/developers make more money in most cases, sometimes it even has the exact opposite effect. [quote]Two: There are hundreds of reasons that a game might not meet its sales projections. A lot of large, triple-A games aren't meeting their sales projections these days. On PC, piracy certainly has something to do with it. However, many games are also not meeting their projections, by wide margins, on consoles, which are generally not platforms where piracy happens much. This suggests that the problems we're currently seeing with games not meeting their sales projections is cause by problems [i]with the sales projections themselves[/i].[/quote] Yea, most problems nowadays are related to the spiraling costs of game development and the sales needed to cover them. In essence games need to focus more on the gameplay than on realistic graphics, because that's where a loooot of money goes. It matters less if a game looks realistic when it's fun to play. [quote]As the article went over, you can't. Nor did they say that you need to build piracy into your cost structure; it more said that you need to figure out [i]why[/i] people are going to buy your game. If you make games without giving people a good reason to buy them, you shouldn't be surprised when people don't buy them.[/quote] Exactly. A good way to go about doing this is making a really fun experience that makes people want to support the company that makes it, so that they will get more of it. CDProjekt Red are like masters of that. (they make the Witcher games and they either own or are owned by Good Old Games; they're pretty much the same company in essence) [quote=MyRepublic] Basically the main problem with saying that piracy hurts sales is that most pirates weren't going to buy the game to start with, thus you can't say they cost you any money.[/quote] This is impossible to prove or disprove. It's even impossible to generalize how many would and how many wouldn't because there's no extensive studies on the subject to my knowledge. So making a statement like that is in fact a fallacy and doesn't prove anything. [quote=MyRepublic] Lol thinkin I pirate games just for making a point you guys don't like. I hate pirates, but trying to say they're causing you to lose money is an impossible thing. Just as you pointed out that I can't prove they wouldn't have bought them you can't prove any would have, thus proving your own points invalid. And that was my point.[/quote] So you intentionally used a faulty reasoning to prove a point? Well, that line of reasoning is the only thing you have supporting your theory that "trying to say [pirates] are causing you to lose money is an impossible thing", since you didn't mention anything else. Pirates cannot, by the very definition of digital replication make anybody [i]lose[/i] money. THAT is the reason. Just wanted to make that clear.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Toshabi] [quote=MyRepublic] I can circle jerk with my own friends. Right now we're talking about me playing lissandra.[/quote] But you can't circle jerk with Toshabi.[/quote] I went on google to find some funny picture related to circle jerking.. Let's just say that I advise against anybody else doing that... [img=http://htmlgiant.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Clio-CircleJerk-751056.jpg.jpeg][/quote]