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Cleaver or Whisper?

Creator: Chaotic Bliss
October 4, 2012 10:43am
71 posts page 1 of 8 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » Cleaver or Whisper?
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Chaotic Bliss » October 4, 2012 10:43am | Report
Well Im back, but this time Im asking a question.

Ive found Ive been drawn to the power of Rengar. I do pretty well with him each game, win or lose, and I do play him by design as the AD Assassin. And though my build is doesnt get fully built most games, but I do tend to melt lone players very quick.

Ive seen other Rengar players build more tanky and it seems that bulky isnt the best way to go. They build things like Frozen Mallet and GA, and I would suppose to increase their dmg they get Last Whisper.

Now my question is this... What would provide better dmg output? The Cleaver or The Whisper? I know one is flat shred and the other is % based. Ive used them both, and I like the cleaver. Ive been able to melt people with both, but it seems that the cleaver benefits me more.

Im looking for a basic general opinion about this. And leave cost out of this lol. I know that Whisper is cheaper, but Im asking for effectiveness not cost.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by throatslasher » October 4, 2012 11:14am | Report
cleaver is highly situational. If you scale off of attackspeed, attack damage, and have a consistent gapclosing/lockdown ability to stick on their carries, go black cleaver. otherwise, last whisper is the best bet for when you're in teamfights and you HAVE to hit tanks, like adcarries. I'm not a rengar player, but i'm pretty confident LW is your best buy after a bit of survivability.

the only person I go black cleaver on is tryndamere and very rarely, renekton when i'm getting fed. full rage stun = 3 stacks of BC instantly.

I thought a scout would have a better understanding of these things, but seeing that i see lots of scouts that are below 1000 elo....
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NinjaGinge » October 4, 2012 11:36am | Report
I've actually run the math on a number of ADC. If you know that every fight you're going to get bum rushed by a particularly potent beefy champ then LW is really best (so unless you can disengage LW is usually the way to go), otherwise TBC is actually slightly better in terms of damage (this was calculated using both a finished and half finished standard crit build) until the target hits a pretty crazy armor rating. I'll have to go check on the number exactly because idr.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Anastasios » October 4, 2012 11:39am | Report
I've seen a lot of people buy it on Pantheon, any input on that?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Chaotic Bliss » October 4, 2012 11:52am | Report
Ninja, Ive been out of the game for a long time and Im just now got the time to fully invest into the things I usually play. I asked because Ive had too much IRL things to worry about, that game mechs arent really something Im too worried about.

Im over 1000elo, so that comment dont bother me.

Lastly, I say thank you for the input and Ill probably take the TBC out and get the LW. Assuming the game isnt so uberly in my favor.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Lugignaf » October 4, 2012 12:13pm | Report
I think it'd be reliant on how much armor they have really, like throat said.

112 and change is the magic number for LW to be better.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by BusDriver210 » October 4, 2012 12:18pm | Report
Not this thread again.....
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Embracing » October 4, 2012 12:50pm | Report

Not this thread again.....



its as simple as this

everyone gets armor

if you get tbc

they stack armor
you're ****ed.

more importantly most champions have big items that come from armor

tl;dr last whisper > tbc
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Temzilla » October 4, 2012 1:08pm | Report
Quoted:




its as simple as this

everyone gets armor

if you get tbc

they stack armor
you're ****ed.

more importantly most champions have big items that come from armor

tl;dr last whisper > tbc


TBC is better on Graves, the slowest attack speed ADC until around 150-160 armor depending a lot on Health.

TBC is better on Vayne at 3500 hp until 270 armor.

The "LW>TBC" comment is VERY VERY wrong, and very ignorant of the value and proper usage of TBC.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Embracing » October 4, 2012 1:12pm | Report
OH MY GOD.
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