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If they remove Oracle's Elixir...

Creator: GrandmasterD
January 18, 2012 7:15pm
19 posts page 1 of 2 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » If they remove Oracle's Elixir...
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by GrandmasterD » January 18, 2012 7:15pm | Report
There have always been rumours about Riot that wants to get rid of Oracle's Elixir and frankly I can understand this. Oracle's Elixir is very disruptive and if the enemy team is doing well since they will have plenty of gold to afford it which grants them an even bigger advantage by removing your wards which are already hard to come by. Removing it, should give losing teams an easier time getting a comeback and result in less "surrender @ 20" games.

However, if they remove it, wouldn't Hextech Sweeper be a great item to replace it? It seems very suitable for supports because of its stats and still grant the ability to remove wards. However, one can only check a specific area once a minute so it should be timed well which is similar as working with Clairvoyance.

I'd like to see what you guys think about it and maybe we could come up with some awesome plan we can hand over to Riot! ^^
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by PsiGuard » January 18, 2012 8:19pm | Report
Sounds fine too me, though the AoE would have to be enlarged. It would be quite easy to hide a ward away from the stealth reveal.

I think Oracle's Extract is a simpler solution if one is necessary. Personally I don't have a big problem with Oracle's Elixir.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by GrandmasterD » January 18, 2012 8:27pm | Report
PsiGuard wrote:

Sounds fine too me, though the AoE would have to be enlarged. It would be quite easy to hide a ward away from the stealth reveal.

I think Oracle's Extract is a simpler solution if one is necessary. Personally I don't have a big problem with Oracle's Elixir.


Oracle's Extract seems fine as well but I think Hextech Sweeper would be a more gameplay friendly solution but maybe that's just me. Agreed on the fact that the AoE should be enlarged for SR.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by caucheka » January 18, 2012 8:27pm | Report
the removal of oracles would of gone with the stealth rework. i dont think they had any plans to replace it with anything.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by PsiGuard » January 18, 2012 8:30pm | Report
^True. Vision warding key areas of the map would probably be enough. Oracle's wouldn't be necessary if they actually went forward with the rework on twitch and evelynn.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by animorte » January 18, 2012 8:35pm | Report
To be honest, a team with a disadvantage would need it as much as one with the advantage. Maybe your team with the advantage is buying more wards for better map control to make sure the enemies can't backdoor or steal any epic monsters. To keep some chance of winning, as in regaining control of at least your side, you might have one person running around destroying wards.

I have a great example. Very recently on Twisted Treeline, our team was forced to stand back and defend. We only had the nexus turret left and we were all squishier than not. None of us could backdoor and tank a turret. The one thing we could do was fill up a slot with wards and one at a time, run through the jungle and place wards. Because the enemy didn't buy an Oracle's, we knew every time they stepped out of their base. We knew when we needed to push, retreat, or fight. Because they didn't use that advantage, we ended up winning.

I think it is fine the way, it is. It leaves everyone with the option still. Though, if it seemed to get old, your new proposed system wouldn't be too bad either.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by PsiGuard » January 18, 2012 9:00pm | Report
animorte wrote:

To be honest, a team with a disadvantage would need it as much as one with the advantage.

The disadvantaged team doesn't have the gold or survivability to keep it around (in theory). It's 400 gold for every elixir and that can be taken away in a flash if you're caught out of position.

The advantaged team probably has a safe support or an unkillable tank that can carry the elixir indefinitely. There's pretty much no way to maintain any map control and win the uphill battle if the enemy team keeps clearing all your wards. You're going to fall farther behind in gold and won't be able to spare elixirs of your own.

This is the unfun mechanic that Riot doesn't like. It doesn't occur every game, but it does happen. The stealth remake would remove a lot of the necessity for Oracle's Elixir, which is probably why Riot hoped to be able to remove or replace it. They want to get rid of the unkillable ward sweepers.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by animorte » January 18, 2012 9:13pm | Report
I would agree to taking out the Elixir, but not stealth completely out of the game. That is ******ed. The problem can be easily solved by simply putting a timer on the item and slightly lowering the cost, just like any other buff.

It also seems like another way to make games last longer. I would rather most likely lose a game in the next 5-10 minutes than defend and possibly win in the next 25+ minutes. Comebacks are already possible. I think that if a team has some kind of advantage, they have earned it.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by GrandmasterD » January 18, 2012 10:12pm | Report
Stealth is fun but only if its very short. Such as if twitch's stealth would be like 4/5/6/7/8 seconds it would be fun enough. Currently its 50 seconds, which is just insane and no fun. Also the stealth champs rely too much on their stealth. The champions who do have fun stealth things are Vayne and Akali tbh.

I think Hextech Sweeper would do very good as replacement for Oracle's Elixir since it seems great for supports and it requires timing like Clairvoyance does. Also, it only has to be bought once so no disadvantages for the losing team.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by TheWeekndOVOXO » January 18, 2012 10:19pm | Report
I've read your arguments, but the best one is replacing it by the Extract.
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