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My Garen Buff/Rework to scaling on Judgment,...

Creator: NicknameMy
March 29, 2012 2:03pm
36 posts page 1 of 4 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » My Garen Buff/Rework to scaling on Judgment, What and Why:
What do you think about this?
Bad, Garen would be totallly OP like that
Good, Garen would be slightly OP with that but nothing that could be easily balanced
Great, a balanced Garen through the whole game
Good, Garen is still slightly too weak but he will catch up to other champs
Bad, Garen is still useless as shit
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 29, 2012 2:03pm | Report
I actually played Garen very often already, but now he seems to taper off really hard. At lvl 3, he is already useless if the enemy is no dumbass and gets armor at runes + cloth. Later in the game he even more falls dramatically off. He is just useless, slightly better than eve atm. To see a champ fall down that hard makes me really sad. But I know why that is. It is because of his CD's. Yeah, he is a manaless champ, but does manaless mean he should have long cooldowns? No! Just look at similar champs like riven, shyvana or rumble. They have also no limits and their spells are rather spammable. Best example for this is riven, does more damage than garen and has lower cd's. So this is already one weak point of him. Second point is, his sustain tool, called his passive, suckes hardcore. I mean, 0,5% HP early is nearly not noticable and the passive gets so quickly broken it is ridiculous. This also needs to be fixed. And finally, wtf Riot, why he has an ability that has lower dmg vs minions and monsters. Nearly no other champ has something bad like that, and they also suffer hardcore from it. This screws up his maybe good talent for jungling and hurts him at pushes. I mean, look at shyvana, she can push top freely without an ability like that.

His last problem is, his very strong early vs his very low late. I think this should be fixed aswell. I try also something for that.

So, at the End, this is the result:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:NicknameMy/My_Garen_buff,_what_and_why%3F


Just for anyone who says: "OMG 2.0 RATIO OP", just simple math helps:

So, we lost 70 Damage before the ratio got buffed by 0.6 %, now just lets calculate that item build:

Mercury's Treads Frozen Mallet Atma's Impaler Force of Nature Last Whisper Infinity Edge

We got following AD:

Mallet: 20
IE: 80
LW: 40
Atmas: ~60

So that is combined 200 bonus AD. Now we just multiplicate it with 0.6.

200*0.6= 120

So you actually won 50 damage, that is not bad, because early you will no longer dominate so hard in lane and late judgment needs that damage. Only if it crits it is more usefull, which will only happen lategame anyways.(I am sure searz could make a graph to how usefull crit is here at this build)
He is gonna kill you!!!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Wintermond » March 29, 2012 2:35pm | Report
That comparison with Riven is bad. Riven and Garen work entirely different and are two different kind of champs. Riven is a tanky dps while garen is an offtank. Ofc Riven deals more damage.

His passive is ****ing strong right now.

Why his spin deals less damage to minions and monsters?
I don't think you want to insta-push your lane to the nexus when you trade.
And the damage to minion waves would be too high, too easy to farm.


I don't know hwy you want to change his spin, it's a good ability right now.
Those changes would just make him weaker as he already is because it forces him to build AD and go less tanky. No, his E is in a good spot right now.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 29, 2012 9:56pm | Report
Well, tanky dps vs off-tank, tanky dps wins everytime. Off-tank is just ****. I mean, riven is tankier than him, deals more dmg, has waay more utility and because of her high hp regen even sustain. She is atm just the better garen.

His passive rly sucks, if you want to trigger it, you deny yourself 1-2 creepwaves, which sucks hardcore.

At my rework, it only deals less dmg to minios, not monsters, allows him to jungle.

Nah, at the early levels, his spin is totally OP while late it sucks hardcore for an ability. And you can see at the math, that early, you loose some damage and late, even with an off-tank build, you win some damage. With brutalizer+mallet+atma's he has the exactly same dmg like now at judgment, maybe even more because of crit.


And the real reason is, if your enemy is smart enough to get armor, garen sucks starting lvl 3 and keeps going down...


Well, and now after his judgemnt was nerfed earlygame and buffed for late, it makes up the other buffs for earlygame.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Searz » March 30, 2012 1:11am | Report
Nick trying to balance stuff again-> Nick failing to balance stuff again.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Forgottenduty » March 30, 2012 4:52am | Report
I really hope Riot will fix Garen sometime. Atm I am just agry for the 3150 points I lost to buy him 1,5 year ago.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 30, 2012 8:30am | Report
1 says OP, 1 say UP, so he is balanced?^^

Well, already nerfed stuffs again(because most time, my changes make champs OP), reduced passive to 0.75%, reset the cd of judgment and reduced the dmg reduction on W for the shorter cd.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Forgottenduty » March 30, 2012 10:08am | Report
I believe he is UP because he cannot determent the outcome of the game, even if you have an exelent start you can't lead your team to victory unless the game lasts less than 30 minutes.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 30, 2012 4:24pm | Report
And nerfed again because people still flaming OP, his passive has the same 0,5% as before and at all stages he deals less dmg. That is what they wanted...

Only real buff was shorter cd on ulti, no dmg reduction vs monsters on judgment and how his passive can be stopped. His courage has less cd but less power.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Forgottenduty » March 30, 2012 6:58pm | Report
A lot of characters got overnerfed because of that.
Omg nerf trynda so op etc etc...
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 31, 2012 12:05am | Report
Well, I found something to add to fix one of his mayor problems. Give him armorpen while judgment is active. This fixes some of problems if the enemy runs a full armor page or lategame because he is hard to build effectively.
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