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The Black Cleaver vs Last Whisper: A...

Creator: EviLCorsaiR
March 2, 2012 12:47am
90 posts page 1 of 9 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » The Black Cleaver vs Last Whisper: A spreadsheet to help your decision.
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by EviLCorsaiR » March 2, 2012 12:47am | Report
As I'm currently writing a guide for Fiora, the latest champion to join the League, I've really started to think about which is best for getting through enemy armor: The Black Cleaver or Last Whisper. So I came up with this spreadsheet to work it out mathematically with pretty much every variable that applies.

You enter in all the variables - your attack damage, base attack speed, bonus attack speed, armor penetration, the enemy's armor, and the number of hits to calculate it over. ALL OF THESE VALUES NEED TO EXCLUDE THE BONUSES FROM LAST WHISPER AND THE BLACK CLEAVER - THESE ARE ADDED AUTOMATICALLY!

DOWNLOAD THE SPREADSHEET HERE! (no viruses, I promise)

Note that the spreadsheet is in .xlsx format, needing Microsoft Office 2007 or 2010. If people want, I CAN provide an alternate link to an .xls version compatible with 2003 and earlier.

Here's some screenshots of the spreadsheet in action:


This is the first page, allows you to edit all the variables and shows the damage per second for both items side by side.





This is the second page, showing a table all the way from 61 armor (the lowest base armor in the game) up to 250 armor, and the DPS for both items and that armor value, using the variables from the first page. (I cannot express how much of a pain it was to come up with a formula for The Black Cleaver here!)





This is the graph that gives a visual representation of the data from the previous page. Once again, this will change depending on the variables you entered into the first page.



Generally, the calculations show that in most cases the Last Whisper exceeds The Black Cleaver after around 200-250 armor. The more hits you do, the more effective The Black Cleaver is. While The Black Cleaver is more expensive, don't forget that its armor reduction debuff means the rest of your team can do more damage to your target as well!


I hope this turns out to be useful for build writers.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by IceCreamy » March 2, 2012 1:25am | Report
Well I always thought Last Whisper would be better than The Black Cleaver if 40 % of the enemy Armor is bigger than 45, but I did not take the AS and extra AD The Black Cleaver gives.

Very interesting charts though. Did you also include the fact that it takes 3 hits for The Black Cleaver before it is fully "charged"?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by EviLCorsaiR » March 2, 2012 2:05am | Report
IceCreamy wrote:

Well I always thought Last Whisper would be better than The Black Cleaver if 40 % of the enemy Armor is bigger than 45, but I did not take the AS and extra AD The Black Cleaver gives.

Very interesting charts though. Did you also include the fact that it takes 3 hits for The Black Cleaver before it is fully "charged"?


The calculation requires you to enter in the expected number of hits that you'll do on target enemy, and takes in to account the first few hits while the Black Cleaver applies its debuff. It was rather complicated to do so...xD
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Yukimaru » March 2, 2012 2:23am | Report
Hmmm maybe compare the gold costs aswell? Just for a little extra, also in general, Black Cleaver is better on Champions who deal more phys dmg with their skills.
I like the Table, i was always more a fan of BC cuz of the "utility" in AD-Terms it gives, but in the end i was going with the mainstream, goin after this u most of the time better off with a Black Cleaver!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Somalie » March 2, 2012 2:57am | Report
Impressive.

Just tested it on Open office calc, it works too.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Searz » March 2, 2012 6:45am | Report
Take a look here for a properly graphed comparison:
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/theorycrafting/your-graphing-resource-1950
(along with lots of other graphed comparisons)

Spreadsheets aren't completely accurate when "translated" into graphs. My graphs are 100% correct visual comparisons.
There's also info on how to make your own graphs in that thread.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Lugignaf » March 2, 2012 6:47am | Report
Yukimaru wrote:

...also in general, Black Cleaver is better on Champions who deal more phys dmg with their skills.

How?
It's most effective on AD carries who rely on auto-attacking. If you're getting damage through skills, it's not going to buff anything unless all the skills apply on-hit effects.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Luther3000 » March 2, 2012 6:48am | Report
Yukimaru wrote:

Just for a little extra, also in general, Black Cleaver is better on Champions who deal more phys dmg with their skills.


Lol no. Last Whisper applies to skills, Black Cleaver does not.

Also I'm somewhat dubious as to the accuracy of this.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Somalie » March 2, 2012 7:44am | Report
Depends of the skills.
English is not my native langage, I'm sorry about how painful to read my text are :c
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Temzilla » March 2, 2012 8:08am | Report
Cool, LW is better for AD kennen at 90 armor with three hits.
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