League of Legends (LoL) Question: What beats Thresh?
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What beats Thresh?
I always saw Thresh as an OP version of Blitzcrank. Higher hook range, more CC, more early damage, far shorter hook cooldown that gets reduced even further when hitting anything including creeps (literally 3.5 second cooldown at full CDR, wtf), and lantern which constantly saves teammates with 0 skill required and 0 counterplay. Buffed recently for no reason whatsoever. 4th most picked champion on EUW, highest picked support.
You get hooked, you're dead. You get Flash + Flay'd, you're dead, 0 counterplay. You don't get hit by anything, you have perfect ward coverage, Thresh lanterns in his jungler from lane, you're dead, 0 counterplay.
Which are the best supports to pick against this guy?
And don't say Morgana, she gets banned a lot in my games. I need an alternative.
Melee engage/peel supports gets rekt by Flay and The Box if they go in so I don't think they work. The least bad thing I can think of is a mage that can deal heavy poke while constantly sitting behind creeps to block the hook. Like Zyra, or maybe Xerath.
How good would Pyke be against him for example?
You get hooked, you're dead. You get Flash + Flay'd, you're dead, 0 counterplay. You don't get hit by anything, you have perfect ward coverage, Thresh lanterns in his jungler from lane, you're dead, 0 counterplay.
Which are the best supports to pick against this guy?
And don't say Morgana, she gets banned a lot in my games. I need an alternative.
Melee engage/peel supports gets rekt by Flay and The Box if they go in so I don't think they work. The least bad thing I can think of is a mage that can deal heavy poke while constantly sitting behind creeps to block the hook. Like Zyra, or maybe Xerath.
How good would Pyke be against him for example?
Making engage rely entirely on her ulti .
Apart from Morgana, Alistar should work I think. Has a nice combination of disengage (W) for those nice jungle surprises, and has the tools to make Thresh regret hooking those horns close to his carry. As an added bonus he can make it quite hard to get to that lantern as well. His CC and R don't hurt Ali as much because of his W and R. Make engaging on you not worth it and Thresh is just a lackluster poke champ with not-so-great tankiness but with some nice disengage. Something you can lane against. (until he gets crazy again late game, nothing can be done against that except for covering your carry..)
So the way to deal with hooks is MOAR HOOKS? Nice game rito xD
Oh and Thresh hook has 200 more range than Blitz hook so I don't see myself winning the hook war, in fact that matchup sounds like it would tilt me even more -_-
Apart from Morgana, Alistar should work I think.
Looks like another 50/50 to me, probably even Thresh favored. If his ADC gets hooked Ali can either combo the enemy ADC and go for the coinflip, or just peel with W and take massive damage, but either way you're out and have to base. At the end of the day "not feeding" isn't winning.
The main problem I see with these melee CC supports is that Thresh's skills are melee and have basically no cooldown. His hook is on a 9 second cd with that ridiculous cooldown reduction when he hits it even on a creep, and Flay is on a 9 second cd as well. So he can basically bounce you around permanently and peel his ADC as much as he wants, there's no way you'll ever land Trample stun on the enemy ADC for example.
Even if you stack tenacity on melee supoprts ( Unflinching, Legend: Tenacity), it doesn't solve your main problem, which is getting perma-kited with Flay.
Two of Thresh's skills are purely melee range (flay + ult) so I don't think melees are the answer. I'm thinking more and more that a ranged with Cleanse is the most direct counter to his kit, since he's safe from anything he can do. I've managed to beat Thresh's with that lately.
Well, you're not going to let him hook your carry right? You eat that hook (if your carry is stupid enough to stand in front of it) and if he decides to jump on you or they get too close, you either engage with Q or just self-peel with W. (you won't travel with them if you hit them early)
Getting hit by his hooks is a lost trade because it's supposed to be that way. Only solution is to dodge that ****. BUT you can occasionally turn it around with Ali by using R immediately after getting hit and then going in. And at least you won't instantly die in contrast to most squishy ranged supports.
I wouldn't say Thresh is great at all-ins, he has nice CC and initial damage on his E, but it's lackluster after that until his cooldowns get back up. By that time he or his carry should be knocking on heaven's door (he's not that tanky). (he has no escapes, only peel, and he's just used part of it by grabbing you closer to him) Note that his CC gets ridiculous cooldowns only after laning phase, during laning phase Alistar's cooldowns should be able to keep up just fine.
So yeah, Alistar works in my opinion. Leona too like Amelyne said, she's also sticky, can take the initial harass and then go all-in. Thresh won't be able to run from that, and won't be able to fight it.
Ranged glass cannon theoretically works very well against him (if you and your carry dodge everything), but in practice a sturdy, sticky all-in champion works better in my opinion. I'd say that's more 60/40. Can't get much further from 50/50 if it's Thresh, he's just in a great spot.
Also his CC does actually have a ridiculously low coooldown now even early thanks to that absurd 8.19 buff. And every Thresh under the sun runs the new cdr offense rune and Cosmic Insight.
To go more in depth, if Thresh uses Death Sentence on your carry to try and initiate, you can counter-initiate reliably as he can't use Flay when using Death Sentence to cancel a melee support's initiation. If he tries to use Death Sentence on you, and goes in on it, he's in a way more vulnerable position than you are.
Heavy poke supports can poke him pretty hard as you said, as he has no reliable sustain or defences to stop it without going all in. If you can keep on poking him to a point where his health is too low to go all in, then lane will be in your favor. However, getting caught by his Death Sentence can literally be a death sentence due to the squishy nature and lack of escape that poke supports have.
Actually, he can cast spells during Death Sentence, including Flay. Just tested. It disarms him, which only prevents attacks.
That's the problem, I can't see a matchup that isn't 50/50 at best.