Hello again Dettebayo,

With regards to Mordekaiser as a counterpick to Zyra I'll agree that of the choices available to me he was not the clearest. I do agree with what you said about Zyra's harassment potential vs Morde and this is particularly true in the early stages of the game. However, you would have to commit a considerable amount of your resources (mana, plants etc) to pushing the lane as heavily as Morde can. Clarity would go some way to dealing with this and a blue would go a long way depending on whether your jungler wants to win or not. -.- (junglers are selfish) However, I don't really see the benefit of this; once you have gone beyond that vulnerable early game period it would just become a passive lane with Morde farming just about as well as anyone and Zyra trying make sure not to fall behind.

Another point I'd like to make is that the next patch contains a pack of nerfs for Zyra; flat damage nerfs all round will exacerbate the issues I've brought up. So, whilst, in her current state, I do agree that Morde is not as clear a counterpick as the others listed, after this next patch this might be a lot more clear.

So to conclude, I'll just say that in her current state Zyra can punish Morde hard enough as to win you the lane early on and often you will be able to crush less experienced Mordekasier players. However, if Morde can survive his vulnerable stage he's in a good spot for the later game.

Regards,

Well, your reasoning is not empty speech.

You conviced me about that Vlad is not as easy lane against Zyra as I thought. I have laned against Vlad twice, and I beat both of them. But if it's true that Vlad players play more carefully after using their Sanguine Pool, then they weren't good Vlad players. That's why I managed to beat them so easily, and that's why I thought that they are easy kills. But I think that if a good Zyra and a good Vladimir go to middle-lane, neither of them wil score kills. Zyra will not let Vlad to get close enough for a Transfusion + Tides of Blood combo, and if he uses Sanguine Pool to get close, he will get a huge burst in his face. And I think Zyra's burst damage is much higher than Vlad's. It would be a passive lane: they both could farm, and Zyra cannot harass Vlad because he easily heals the damage. They would have about the same amount of creeps, which is good for Vlad, because his late game is better than Zyra's, and he can beat her in 1v1 as you have told it before. In addition, Zyra can be ganked easily since she has no escape mechanism, but Vlad can easily escape with his Sanguine Pool. All things considered, I agree with that Vladimir is a counter to Zyra.

But I don't think you are right about Morde. Don't forget that Zyra is also a good pusher, if she wants she can finish the minions as fast as Morde, it's just not the best tactics against most of the champions, because she can't escape from ganks when she is pushed. But if you push against Morde, it's okay because he also pushes. In addition, you can harass him but he cannot harass you because he will end up with a snare, a deadly bloom and one or two thornspitters shooting at him. All you need against him is a blue, or if your jungler will need blue at later levels, you need to get a Clarity as summoner spell instead of ignite. You will be able to harass and push continuously this way, and he can't even lasthit minions when he is on CD without getting harassed.

That's my opinion about this. If you have something to add, I will gladly read your reply :)

Thanks for the feedback dettebayo,

I'll try to address your concerns about Mordekaiser first; What you describe are flaws with Morde himself (low range, lack of CC and escape mechanics) yet he is still considered counterpicks to champions such as Kassadin, Morgana and Ahri (2 of whom have ranged CC). In the early game Morde can over commit and you can punish him pretty hard, I will give you that. However, his strong farm and ability to push the lane will mean he will end up clearing creeps way quicker than you. He will then clear the Wraith camp whilst his lane is pushed meaning he has a steady exp and gold advantage on you. Coordination with your jungler is about the only way to kill him; well organised ganks can shut down a careless Morde pretty hard, but other than that, he seems a pretty good pick against Zyra as he's not actively trying to score kills against you just passively getting ahead.

I'll try to address your concerns about Vladimir here:
Firstly I didn't say that Vlad would be able to avoid all your damage just a lot of the more scary burst (W-E-W-Q-R type of thing). Sanguine pool will be at a 23 second cooldown by level 8 (according to highest rated vlad guide on Mobafire) meaning that you have roughly a 10-11 second window, after laying down enough burst to force SP, to land a second Grasping Roots and do the same again. The issue with this is that most Vlad players are acutely aware of their vulnerability whilst Sanguine pool is on CD and therefore there is unlikely to be much of an over extension on his part unless he is careless. Moreover, for you to be dealing enough damage for him to use Sanguine Pool in the first place you would have to commit a considerable amount of your resources e.g mana and more importantly Plants. At level 8 you are unlikely to have any more than 2 ranks in Rampant Growth and therefore regeneration period of your Seeds will be 17-16 seconds meaning you will not have 2 plants available during your 10 second window. On top of this, Vlad will be able to cast several Transfusions and Tides of Blood meaning much of the damage you did to force Sanguine pool has been healed off. In a 1v1 fight Vlad can lay down his damage and use his Sanguine Pool to avoid yours. Hemoplague + Transfusions + Tides of Blood and of course the damage from Sanguine pool itself is enough to deal with Zyra. Vlad has some early game vulnerability before he gets his Spell Vamp rolling but other than that I feel he is a pretty strong counterpick to Zyra.

Hopefully I've gone some way to alleviating your concerns about my choice of Counterpicks. If you have anything to add please feel free; I really do appreciate the feedback.

Regards,

I agree with the two above about that counterpick-thing. I will tell you why Morde and even Vlad (in my opinion) are not counterpicks against Zyra: because their range is nothing compared to Zyra's range. They can't even harass her without getting some damage, and even if they try to get closer to her, Zyra just snare them with Grasping Roots and hit them with the Deadly Bloom + Rampant Growth combo. They just cannot beat her. And morde even cannot last-hit with his basic attacks without getting harassed. You can say that his passive can defend him from being harassed, but Zyra deals more damage than the amount of shield he gains. And about that Sanguine Pool thing on Vlad: I think its cooldown is not short enough to say that he can avoid all attacks, and it even costs some hitpoints. Trust me, I'm also a Zyra player ;)

About the guide itself: it is nicely-made, and your reasoning is okay for the most parts, except from what the two summoners have told above. I would say that it's an okay guide.

Thanks for the feedback. I've altered the build order somewhat to neglect rod of ages. Looking back it is less than optimal in that situation, yet I feel not as poor a choice as you make it to out to be.

With regards to counterpicks; please justify your complaints and I'll alter them. Telling me they're just 'bad' isn't so helpful.

Regards,


P.S Masteries have been altered too.

The guide looks decent, some good visuals but i agree with above. Your build sis kind of weird, may want to switch u the item order. And your counter picks are sort of bad.

Masteries: 0.5% Ms is not a strong as havin blue and baron buff for one more minute.

Items: Why would u buy Rod of Ages and Archangel staff that late... thats just dumb. U will never have RoA and Tear fully stacked if you buy them at the... 40 minute mark.

Morde is definitely not a counterpick to Zyra, rather the other way round.

This guide is meh in everything but the visuals.