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General Guide by Xenasis

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League of Legends Build Guide Author Xenasis

Jungling 101 - What You Need To Know!

Xenasis Last updated on July 24, 2012
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1
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aliselay (1) | October 16, 2014 12:27am
I wonder why ranger and khazix is not listed they extremly good at jungle
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Darkjellyfish (1) | March 15, 2013 11:08am
Great guide, I wonder if I can refer to your resources for my guide? It would save me a lot of hassle explaining jungling route and warding in general.

I think I have voted up but I don't see any sign D:
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Shadzinator | October 17, 2012 10:34pm
Finally, season 3 jungle changes to make the jungle actually threatening. I'm so sick of getting the first 4 buffs of the game and yet only being ahead of the enemy jungler by 1 level or so. At least counter jungling will be worth it now.
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Kammamuri (2) | September 16, 2012 10:06pm
quazzyex wrote:

Sejuani needs a better tier


I dont remember the last time that I saw she in game
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quazzyex | September 8, 2012 7:19pm
Sejuani needs a better tier
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Christopher100 | September 8, 2012 3:08pm
OI THAT BIT ABOUT SMITE IS SOMETHING I YELL AT EVERY JUNGLER ON EU NORDIC AND EAST WHO THINKS NOT TAKING SMITE IS GOOD I DEMAND SATISFACTION VIA GETTING A FORM OF CREDIT, OR YOU COULD BUY ME RIOT POINTS (just joking but i swear i put it in a jungling guide commect somewhere)
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mnslayer27 (1) | September 3, 2012 1:49pm
I'm curious about what tiers Diana and Rengar belong in.
1
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Carpax (1) | August 31, 2012 9:27am
Looks like the time has come for me to try jungling. I will let you know how it went and if I like it but one thing is for sure. I really like this guide. So well written. Absoloutly amazing. I can't wait to try jungling ; )
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JohnnyBeggod | August 26, 2012 12:26am
Hey, i think you should add Lux to jungle list, because she can gank very well because of her snare, the shield gives her high damage block into jungle and she has a lot of burst.
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FioraLight | August 24, 2012 11:49pm
The Evelynn Rework, I don't think she's a Tier 4
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Fluffayyy | August 18, 2012 6:56pm
I feel that with the new rework Evelyn is easily a tier 2 if not tier one jungler at clearing waves and ganks the right positioning with you q tears through creep camps and using her stealth correctly you can easily sneak in behind the enemy and secure the kill
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jackybg | August 18, 2012 8:59am
I still think that Shaco should be in the BEST list, he has the best counter jungling,best ganks(but but need a bit team help early game),pretty fast jungling,with right placed Jitb's he doesn't really need sustain,early solo dragon,short duration wards (W),and with right build he can be pretty tanky and does TONS OF DAMAGE at the same time and lets dont forget that he can solo baron with a bit armor,lantern and madreds, his ganks are a lot less dependable of enemy wards, great pusher and a lot more.
Imo he is just high elo champion who just needs early game teamplay in ganks and late game soloer who's main target is to push, backdoor and kill enemy carries.

PS: Shaco isn't useless/weak or whatever champion after his tons of nerfs , only people doent know how to play him right and what builds to do so they are useful late game , he is way too underestimated champion.
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Frstypwn | August 13, 2012 5:26pm
+1 for the build.
one thing i would like to say though, Warwick is much better than you have him ranked.

Currently, Warwick with a good build, rune page, and mastery set up he's superb.

He has great self sustain, his ultimate procs on-hit effects, he is Anti-tank / Anti-Carry, he's a hybrid who you can't build to hard-counter his damage, he has great CC via his ultimate, can solo dragon at 6, can solo baron at 18, great chasing, red hits off his ultimate, he's very tank-like, and can easily counter jungle.

Give the http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/anti-carry-jungle-warwick-magic-dps-99024 build a try, and see how he compares to other junglers.
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Silasdoom | August 13, 2012 2:27pm
Nice! Won't have to put up with people complaining about laning amumu anymore!
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Xenasis (164) | August 7, 2012 4:53am

Great guide but I want to know why is Hecarim in average? I've jungled him many times and he's really, really fast in the jungle. And his ganks are so amazing especially at level 3 when you have your E and ghost ready.


His ganks really aren't anything special, especially pre-6. His ult only fears for 1 second and the reliance on his E to gank means he can't gank from certain paths. His E also isn't really a good CC, and knocks them backwards, which isn't great in some normal situations.

He's very mana reliant, too, and isn't really one of the fastest junglers. His speeds are above average at best, if you're really pushing it.

Needless to say, he can't duel well early on, so he's neither good at counter jungling or good at surviving it, either.
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vosironfist | August 6, 2012 9:12pm
I had been having a hard time finding my niche in LOL but I have absolutely fell in love with Trundle in the Jungle and he says the craziest things Great Guide if I get real fed I usually get Bloodthirster instead of wits end Awesome Job
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Ep1c1337d00d (1) | August 5, 2012 5:52pm
Great guide but I want to know why is Hecarim in average? I've jungled him many times and he's really, really fast in the jungle. And his ganks are so amazing especially at level 3 when you have your E and ghost ready.

+1
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Isthatok (67) | August 2, 2012 11:19am
I'm the 999th voter!

+1
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Xenasis (164) | July 24, 2012 2:40pm
clovvn26 wrote:

if you look to the build you see that you only got 5 finishing items maby you should add a last one
i always use this build for laning warwick and my 6th items is bloodthirster really good item on him
love the guide


Though I appreciate the feedback, I'd veer from changing the finishing item(s) up too much.

My reasoning is that it's completely situational. If they have a mage that's doing well, you might want a Banshee's or Warmog's, if it's an AD carry, Randuin's or Frozen Heart. Of course, if you yourself are doing really well, some extra damage might be a really good choice, but I don't want to encourage the fixed item mentality. Item builds are and should be malleable.
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Xenasis (164) | July 24, 2012 2:33pm
clovvn26 wrote:

if you look to the build you see that you only got 5 finishing items maby you should add a last one
i always use this build for laning warwick and my 6th items is bloodthirster really good item on him
love the guide


Though I appreciate the feedback, I'd veer from changing the finishing item(s) up too much.

My reasoning is that it's completely situational. If they have a mage that's doing well, you might want a Banshee's or Warmog's, if it's an AD carry, Randuin's or Frozen Heart. Of course, if you yourself are doing really well, some extra damage might be a really good choice, but I don't want to encourage the fixed item mentality. Item builds are and should be malleable.
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clovvn26 | July 17, 2012 4:38pm
Xenasis wrote:

Thanks for all the positive feedback!

What do you think I should add/change?


if you look to the build you see that you only got 5 finishing items maby you should add a last one
i always use this build for laning warwick and my 6th items is bloodthirster really good item on him
love the guide
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Mana Stealer | July 8, 2012 3:16am
love the guide +1
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Xenasis (164) | July 4, 2012 5:43pm
Sir Denwo wrote:

I really like this guide; it has some great information, however, I don't understand the tier list of junglers for some of the choices such as Renekton. I jungle Renekton all the time and he has average jungle speed, superb ganks (if executed properly), and fufuills the role of offtank that your team needs in a jungler.. Anyone want to explain his low tier rating?


I've not had much of a look into Renekton for a while, I will do so some time soon.

I still think the fact he is an early game hero and that you will completely waste his amazing lane dominance isn't good though. Renekton's one of the strongest laners in the game, hence he has a bad late game (as most champions work like scales), and the jungle doesn't offer nearly as much farm as top lane.

If I were to move him up, I will definitely only move him up one. His transition and the fact it doesn't fit to his build are by far the most worrying points. He might have good ganks but where does that leave him late game?
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Sir Denwo (1) | July 4, 2012 3:48pm
I really like this guide; it has some great information, however, I don't understand the tier list of junglers for some of the choices such as Renekton. I jungle Renekton all the time and he has average jungle speed, superb ganks (if executed properly), and fufuills the role of offtank that your team needs in a jungler.. Anyone want to explain his low tier rating?
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Xenasis (164) | July 4, 2012 2:40pm
geminizyx wrote:

Love the guide, but can someone explain why fiddlesticks is an average jungler. He is sustainable, hard to gank as perpetual high hp and ganks are excellent.

As a side note id also put him as someone who can jungel with no runes. My sis did it at summoenr 14, no runes and forgettin to buy items XD


I think I'll do that!

Fiddlesticks is lower down for a few reasons -
1. Blue buff dependent. Steal that (invasion or no) and he has a very, very hard time jungling.
2. Very mana dependent even if he does have blue, constantly low in mana when jungling - easy to counter jungle and stuff.
3. Made from paper and as such easy to turn a gank around (if you have any stun at all) with a counter gank, and also, again, makes him easy to counter jungle.
4. Ganks kind of rely on his ult. His fear is semi decent but he's not good with red or something to help stop them running away after that.
5. Heavily countered by wards moreso than any other jungler.
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geminizyx | July 2, 2012 1:51am
Love the guide, but can someone explain why fiddlesticks is an average jungler. He is sustainable, hard to gank as perpetual high hp and ganks are excellent.

As a side note id also put him as someone who can jungel with no runes. My sis did it at summoenr 14, no runes and forgettin to buy items XD
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Shadhorll (3) | June 29, 2012 10:02am
+1 Excellent Guide very detailed and easy to understand this helped me alot while playing Warwick Keep up the good work Xenasis
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Onrion (10) | June 25, 2012 9:53am
I like this a lot. I have tried manny junglers but i would say that hecarim is the one that I have had the most succes with, he is superfast, has great ganks, outstandind surrvivability and a great initiator. Could you consider the thought of puting upp his rank to at least demigod maybe? :) Anyhow great job on this guide.

-Onrion
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yawas | June 20, 2012 7:42am
mhmm i really think that Warwick is at least tier 2 jungler, for many reason. he doesnt take super long time to clear the jungle and he doesnt need to go back every secound and he can gank pretty well most of the time. i just think that he doesnt belong to tier 3
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Xenasis (164) | June 19, 2012 9:28am
R4idenZero wrote:

There are 2 Points i Really Disagree:

1 - Getting Warmog's Armor on quite every single jungler is just Horrible.

2 - I only consider Your "Tier" only until "Tier 2 (The Demigod Tier)" Champions after are just placed randomly.

- Trundle Can jungle as fast as you want but when it's time to gank or teamfight he just becomes pretty useless, only With Frozen Mallet he does something but, meh it's the item that does everything.

- Olaf fast jungler but ganks are not so efficent, and mid-late game he's useless if not farmed, would be only free kill.

- Nunu Demi-God tiere where i just see a slow from his snowball and nothing else. No damage early, mid and lategame. No utility apart from the slow.

- Singed & Xin Zhao Just no.

- Nautilus should be God Tier, Cc machine too much useful.

- Sejuani Semi-God at least, she's too much underrated and way harder to use than nautilus but she has the best itiniator skill of the game plus a permanent huge slow.

- Renekton you are understimating this champion in jungle, actually he can jungle with ease, and his ganks are pretty good.

- Yorick Should be Demi-God, not so easy to play but rewarding, this OP champ never fails.


1. I get Warmogs on 5/10 junglers in this guide, simply because tanky DPS is the metagame right now and you cannot run around with Phantom Dancers and IEs on Udyr or whatever.

2. Trundle -
Best jungler taking everything but ganking into account in the game
His speed isn't amazing but he's impossible to counter jungle, amazing at duelling, and is one of the most sustained junglers in the game. His ganks aren't THAT bad, either. Shyvana is a great pick and Trundle has better ganks than her.

Olaf -
Tell that to Nintendude from Monomatic (or whatever their new name is, I forgot) who uses him all the time in tournaments.

Nunu -
Hm, yeah I overestimated his buff on that one. I'll probably move him down.

Singed -
Really good in the jungle, you'd be surprised. Try him out.

Xin Zhao -
Still a great pick due to versatility. He can run red buff routes with ease, just like Lee Sin, for example. If I remember correctly, M5's jungler, Diamondprox has a >75% win rate with him in ranked, and he plays him a lot. The thing you really need to watch for is his ganks. Level 2 Xin gank with red is not good news.

Naut -
Yes he has tonnes of CC. Yes he's a great pick. Yes he's great in team fights. This has no relevance to his jungling, of which he's only barely good at.

Sejuani -
Explained above in the page. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter that she can initiate wonderfully late game, that does not contribute to jungling.

Renekton -
The main thing holding him back is all he needs to put in to jungle and throws away later because of it. Scaling and itemisation is abysmal and he isn't particularly good at anything - there's no reason to pick him over anybody else as a jungler.

Yorick -
Very easy to play, not OP, but extremely strong in a lane
Explained above, he's too reliant on blue and has only semi decent ganks at best.
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R4idenZero (12) | June 19, 2012 6:21am
There are 2 Points i Really Disagree:

1 - Getting Warmog's Armor on quite every single jungler is just Horrible.

2 - I only consider Your "Tier" only until "Tier 2 (The Demigod Tier)" Champions after are just placed randomly.

- Trundle Can jungle as fast as you want but when it's time to gank or teamfight he just becomes pretty useless, only With Frozen Mallet he does something but, meh it's the item that does everything.

- Olaf fast jungler but ganks are not so efficent, and mid-late game he's useless if not farmed, would be only free kill.

- Nunu Demi-God tiere where i just see a slow from his snowball and nothing else. No damage early, mid and lategame. No utility apart from the slow.

- Singed & Xin Zhao Just no.

- Nautilus should be God Tier, Cc machine too much useful.

- Sejuani Semi-God at least, she's too much underrated and way harder to use than nautilus but she has the best itiniator skill of the game plus a permanent huge slow.

- Renekton you are understimating this champion in jungle, actually he can jungle with ease, and his ganks are pretty good.

- Yorick Should be Demi-God, not so easy to play but rewarding, this OP champ never fails.
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UrGoNeLoL | June 18, 2012 3:25am
Xenasis wrote:



Udyr has no ultimate - his R skill can be taken from level 1, and he has to leave one of his skills at 3 points.


whoops, sorry, you´re right.
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Xenasis (164) | June 16, 2012 9:39am

You forgot Shyvana as one of the best counter junglers !!!


Ah, yes, I forgot to add her!

She was not made when this guide was made, you see!
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cyber_rat619 | June 16, 2012 3:39am
You forgot Shyvana as one of the best counter junglers !!!
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Xenasis (164) | June 14, 2012 9:04am
UrGoNeLoL wrote:

good guide, but i don´t think the skill order of udyr is right.. it has like 5 ult lvlup´s and only 3 E´s... just a small note : )


Udyr has no ultimate - his R skill can be taken from level 1, and he has to leave one of his skills at 3 points.
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UrGoNeLoL | June 14, 2012 5:30am
good guide, but i don´t think the skill order of udyr is right.. it has like 5 ult lvlup´s and only 3 E´s... just a small note : )
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antoniogonz1998 | June 13, 2012 7:12am
Nice guide
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Xenasis (164) | June 10, 2012 5:28pm
Mitsiee wrote:

Great guide, but how are Sejuani and Yorick so low? Sejuani has better ganks than other any champion and Yorick clears the jungle in second, without needing blue, and even getting out with 100% HP. On top of that, Yorick is an AMAZING counter ganker.

I'm sorry, I'm not voting this guide up, it is well written and everything, but the Tier chart is so far off. Simply because you don't see a champion much doesn't mean he belongs to a lower Tier.
Talk to other people, and don't just throw your own opinion on there.


That's not my reasoning at ALL.

If that was my reasoning, Amumu, as with Fiora, would definitely not be tier 2 - I've not seen either picked for at least 20 games. Trundle isn't exactly the most common pick (y, either, and he's tier 1 as he is an amazing jungler - one of the best in the game without question.

My reasoning is simply pure brute jungling. If they JUNGLE well, they're high. If they're a good pick that otherwise lacks in the jungle (like Sejuani) then they're low(er). If they have the best team fight in the game or excel late game (see Warwick as a quick example) then that won't affect them unless those skills directly translate to jungling.

Reasoning for Sejuani being low -
Really blue dependent
Not many routes/builds she can take - she basically has to go double HoG and start at blue
No innate regen (or anything to aid survivability, like Demacian Standard)
Speeds aren't anything special
However, she's tier 3 because she has amazing ganks. That's about it. She can be punished really hard in the jungle and is dependant on those ganks actually being successful.

Reasoning for Yorick being low -
Relatively blue dependant - low base mana, not low ability costs
Can't gank well at all - this is the main factor lowering him, and he has no other redeeming qualities
He's not really fast at all - he's mediocre at best - I'd say less than that, too
Easily counterjungled/killed - no escape/semi escape

Does that cover it for you?
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Mitsiee (4) | June 10, 2012 4:48pm
Great guide, but how are Sejuani and Yorick so low? Sejuani has better ganks than other any champion and Yorick clears the jungle in second, without needing blue, and even getting out with 100% HP. On top of that, Yorick is an AMAZING counter ganker.

I'm sorry, I'm not voting this guide up, it is well written and everything, but the Tier chart is so far off. Simply because you don't see a champion much doesn't mean he belongs to a lower Tier.
Talk to other people, and don't just throw your own opinion on there.
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Xenasis (164) | May 28, 2012 4:25am
R3NZ wrote:

I do realise it states 'rough tier list' but people really base who they buy of that list. I do believe the list should be based off who is being played at a pro level and who is easy to play. People like Riven and Jarvan IV should then be rethought and I do believe the ganking potential of the highest tier people should be taken into account. With Shyvana, I usually take Smite-Exhaust to make up for my amount of hard CC. This shoiuld be said or even make a different section for it. Although my complaints seem large they're not, and I commend you on a great guide. +1 from me!


Riven is commonly picked up by Nintendude (from Monomatic eSports), and one of his main junglers (though it's fair to say he mains Olaf). He uses her, obviously, in competitive matches and tournaments (regularly) - so I think I'll have to stick with that one.

Jarvan is a great jungler and champion - he has been picking up a lot recently, too. It won't be long before you see him competitively, believe me.

Still, this is how good they are AS A JUNGLER (as I made explicit) - not how good they are AS A PICK. This tier list doesn't take into account their scaling into late game for the most part (unless it's affected by the jungle) with an example being Yi.

If it was based on a good pick, Alistar (for example) would've been tier 1 by now, he's in practically every high Elo game in the jungle.

Good point regarding exhaust, I shall have to note that, though I myself like Smite/Flash, I think it's the Americans that seem to prefer Smite/Exhaust for some reason.
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R3NZ | May 28, 2012 12:35am
I do realise it states 'rough tier list' but people really base who they buy of that list. I do believe the list should be based off who is being played at a pro level and who is easy to play. People like Riven and Jarvan IV should then be rethought and I do believe the ganking potential of the highest tier people should be taken into account. With Shyvana, I usually take Smite-Exhaust to make up for my amount of hard CC. This shoiuld be said or even make a different section for it. Although my complaints seem large they're not, and I commend you on a great guide. +1 from me!
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Torin Negatia | May 25, 2012 10:37am
awww, no love for jungle heimer?
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Xenasis (164) | May 25, 2012 8:20am

Wow, this has to be the most useful resource on this website! Haha! How long did it take you to make this?


Glad you think so!

Hm, I don't know. I did it in small parts over a long period of time. Call me weird but I love writing. I don't care what it's about I just like writing stuff.
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Robo Ninja Monky (52) | May 25, 2012 4:42am

Up-Voted!



Wow, this has to be the most useful resource on this website! Haha! How long did it take you to make this?

Anwways, a definite up-vote from me! Mad props as well!
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gravenus56 | May 24, 2012 8:38am
Thank you for that a lot of explanations for jungling.I was confused how to jungle but now I know how to jungle.One more time thanks you :)
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Xenasis (164) | May 9, 2012 12:40pm

Where did the builds go? The Warwick build was really good :-(


Shouldn't have gone anywhere, they look fine for me (both when not signed in and signed in)!

Probably a bug/something to do with the new guide layout. Try clearing cookies, if that doesn't work, make a post to Matt on the support forum telling him your issue, your browser, your OS, etc.
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Lord_Raptor | May 9, 2012 2:21am
Where did the builds go? The Warwick build was really good :-(
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RenkinG | May 3, 2012 9:43am
+1

wow, awesome job!

+ impresses just of the optik
+ clearly structured
+ everything explained
+ important things are good summarized

really good guide, helped a lot!
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sannie343 | May 2, 2012 6:03am
This has helped me so much in the jungle. Thank you so much!
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StealthdragoLoL | May 1, 2012 3:51am
Thanks for this WW Jungle build, First game in Ranked got 10-2-7
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first destroyer | April 30, 2012 1:43am
this jungle guide is very good! <33333333333
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zoboran (2) | April 28, 2012 10:37pm
WHERES SEJUANA!
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Spartan749 | April 25, 2012 4:39pm
I really like your guide. I have a suggestion though:
I jungle a lot as Amumu and I use an off-tank build. I would suggest trying it out for yourself. He gets a lot more damage and an aoe slow (Rylai's) which makes his ganking and late game much more effective in my experiences.
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magykfawks | April 16, 2012 1:42pm
Xenasis wrote:



That's part of my reasoning, as you said, he NEEDS that first blue buff. If he doesn't get that, he has a difficult time jungling. After that it's a huge help if he does have it. If you compare his need for blue, to, say, Xin, who's in the same tier, then I'm sure you'll agree it is a little high. You do say his Spear is only 45 mana, whilst that's true, because it's a low CD skill with low damage, you have to use it a lot to get the same as any other skill.

Compare it to Olaf's Undertow, for example
Undertow - 55 mana, 80 damage AoE, ~1s CD with blue, 1 AD ratio
Spear Shot - 45 mana, 65 damage, single target, ~2.5s CD with blue, 1.5 AD ratio

Compared to other skills, it's really mana inefficient. If you take Panth's early blue away it's far too hard for him to jungle as fast, or as safe as before.


This is true, but the first blue is often not much of a big deal. If it was a no mana jungler it helps greatly to give it to mid or something, but its usually normal for the jungler to get blue. If pantheon gets invaded and can't get blue, he would just go wraiths than red. Early game it is true that Pantheon would have a hard time jungling if he cannot spam spear shot but this does not change the fact that he is still ganking oriented and often does not have any jungle route whatsoever. But I do see your point and I've actually never tried Xin jungle even though its quite popular.
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Aalkheir (2) | April 15, 2012 8:28pm
Very nice, I'm more confident about jungling now that I've read your guide ^^
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Xenasis (164) | April 15, 2012 6:16am
magykfawks wrote:

Amazing guide, I always check this when i have a question. I've been playing Pantheon jungle very extensively lately and I highly disagree with your reason for moving him down. He only needs the first blue buff and can give it to mid after the first one. Since he is ganking oriented, he spends more time ganking rather than farming the jungle and isn't spamming his abilities often. Even so, the times that he is farming the only ability one would use early game is spear throw which only costs 45 mana at all levels. By the time he does his first blue pill, he usually has enough for Bersekers Grieves, a second Dorans, or his Madreds if he started with cloth or sword. The passive he has from his E means that the amount of life steal will be doubled when hitting targets below 15%. So even with two Dorans and not wriggles, with masteries he has 9% life steal and when attacking low targets becomes 18%. And that is with Dorans, Wriggles would bring you to 36% life steal when attacking low targets. With attack speed runes and Berserkers Grieves his passive will proc very often and keep him at a high amount of health while constantly farming the jungle. I know this is really long just for a comment and something probably no one noticed or cares about. But with the correct runes, Pantheon can easily sustain himself in the jungle with only the first Blue.


That's part of my reasoning, as you said, he NEEDS that first blue buff. If he doesn't get that, he has a difficult time jungling. After that it's a huge help if he does have it. If you compare his need for blue, to, say, Xin, who's in the same tier, then I'm sure you'll agree it is a little high. You do say his Spear is only 45 mana, whilst that's true, because it's a low CD skill with low damage, you have to use it a lot to get the same as any other skill.

Compare it to Olaf's Undertow, for example
Undertow - 55 mana, 80 damage AoE, ~1s CD with blue, 1 AD ratio
Spear Shot - 45 mana, 65 damage, single target, ~2.5s CD with blue, 1.5 AD ratio

Compared to other skills, it's really mana inefficient. If you take Panth's early blue away it's far too hard for him to jungle as fast, or as safe as before.
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Polop148 (8) | April 14, 2012 2:52pm
Great Guide very good for beginners and the like. Highly detailed always a good read though
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MaDNiaC (1) | April 13, 2012 2:02am
Informative, detailed and easy and fun to read. Recommended for everyone who wants to try jungle. From basics to advanced information everything needed is in this guide. +1 bro.

Sincerely MaDNiaC.
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Xenasis (164) | April 11, 2012 12:52pm
Archur wrote:

Hey, fantastic guide! I always check for updates on this guide whenever new champs are in. Just wanted to mention, you probably didn't notice this, but in your runes section on the Armor yellows you have a few repeated lines. It's a little typo, but I figure it'll help all the same!


Much obliged, I'll fix it!
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Archur | April 11, 2012 12:13pm
Hey, fantastic guide! I always check for updates on this guide whenever new champs are in. Just wanted to mention, you probably didn't notice this, but in your runes section on the Armor yellows you have a few repeated lines. It's a little typo, but I figure it'll help all the same!
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Xenasis (164) | April 8, 2012 5:20pm
As long as credit is given, sure!
1
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xXFinisherXx | April 8, 2012 5:14pm
was wondering if i could use ur jungle map pic w/ the dexcription of the camps
1
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t0xy | April 3, 2012 3:57am
thank you for this awesome guide
1
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Buttercup7 | April 2, 2012 5:44am
I went 17/3//12 with Warwick, and that was the first time I've ever played him and jungled with him.
1
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Cale | March 27, 2012 8:30pm
+1
Hail, fellow brethren, as I bow before thee in honor.

Great guide and I hope a lot of people learn from this.

I'm going to start to play Nunu now. :D
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Bisquix | March 25, 2012 12:37am
Ever try jungling Kog'maw? Early game he gets slapped around a bit but mid game he cuts through camps like butter. His ult can be used to steal buffs and his slow is a great way to start a gank.
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MentalZombie (1) | March 20, 2012 8:11am
I always sucked at jungling, never even bothered to learn really. Laning was always more up my alley. But this week they made Nocturne free, so I decided to give jungling a serious try. One guide led to another, and after a few hours of researching I can safely say this one helped me the most! Very well written, detailed and in-depth. Thanks to you, I actually managed to complete a full game as a jungle Nocturne while not sucking, so cheers and keep it up!
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Singismund | March 18, 2012 11:57am
Thanks. Tried him out in custom and finished my route just barely without a leash. After that i successfully jungled in 4 P vs.P matches.

Thanks for the advice, and once again, great guide.
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Xenasis (164) | March 17, 2012 5:29pm
Singismund wrote:

I have a short question regarding the Junglers Suited for Summoners Not Level 30/Runeless section and the viable junglers section. I am level 14 in LoL and i don't have any runes. Recently i bought myself Nocturne and thought about jungling with him, but in the first section you do not mention him as a good jungler to start off with and i didn't really know if i should jungle with him at this level. But in the viadble junglers section you say that he is a good pick for new players.

So what i want to know, is Nocturne a good character to jungle with without runes and below level 30?

Other than this i love your guide, taught me a lot about jungling.


I said, regarding tier 1 are "USUALLY a good starting point for new players". I guess this is true of Nocturne in the sense that he's a good entry level ganking jungler. He's completely viable in all stages of elo, don't get me wrong (and saw much usage at Hanover), but he's easy to play, but as with most junglers, hard to master. I'd say he's the easiest ganking oriented jungler to play, though one could argue ganking oriented junglers aren't the easiest to play in general.

I didn't say Nocturne was bad to start off with, but he's certainly not the best. He's not too bad, though. If you get a pull at blue, you should be topped off health wise throughout your jungle if you get 9 points in defence.

Start with Q and take E at level 2 (may net a kill if you're lucky). Start ganking at 2 and continue throughout your jungle afterwards.

He has pretty straight forward ganks, too. Press R > Q > E and press W when a spell comes at you.

If you've already got him, give him a shot in a custom game. If you can do it without a pull, you can easily do it with one, as a rule of thumb!
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Singismund | March 17, 2012 3:10pm
I have a short question regarding the Junglers Suited for Summoners Not Level 30/Runeless section and the viable junglers section. I am level 14 in LoL and i don't have any runes. Recently i bought myself Nocturne and thought about jungling with him, but in the first section you do not mention him as a good jungler to start off with and i didn't really know if i should jungle with him at this level. But in the viadble junglers section you say that he is a good pick for new players.

So what i want to know, is Nocturne a good character to jungle with without runes and below level 30?

Other than this i love your guide, taught me a lot about jungling.
1
[-]
Bluedude303 | March 16, 2012 4:13pm
Very detailed, exceptionally well done. This guide has helped me so much. Great work! +1
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Reklama (2) | March 15, 2012 7:55am
Amazing +1
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Xenasis (164) | March 11, 2012 6:27pm

great job.

Do you know Stonewall on youtube? He's a great jungler in my oppinion and you may want to include some of his video matherial in your guide (like leashing)
here's the link


I have indeed seen his videos!

I actually used to have a video (he has now privated/deleted) on this guide where he mentioned how you couldn't jungle without smite. Sadly, it was set to private or deleted, and as such, I have since removed it.

I would include some, but I think that would be more stealing somebody else's content than making my own. Maybe it's a personal thing, but I'd rather explain it myself than let somebody else (despite the fact I respect their opinion) do it. Other than his leashing video, and his smite one (he may have one on the jungling triad, but I forgot), they are all champion specific, so I wouldn't include those.

I follow his stuff on Reign of Gaming, too. Not religiously, admittedly - but I like seeing his point of view, and how well a new champion fares in jungling before they're released in the EU.
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Cortez Cardinal (18) | March 11, 2012 5:59pm
great job.

Do you know Stonewall on youtube? He's a great jungler in my oppinion and you may want to include some of his video matherial in your guide (like leashing)
here's the link
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Xenasis (164) | March 11, 2012 5:35pm
Glad I could be off assistance!

If you'd like to ask anything else, don't hesitate to comment, or send me a message using Mobafire's messaging system!
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MaiLinna (17) | March 11, 2012 5:26pm
Xenasis wrote:

Hmm, good question.

Comparing Fiora to Shyvana -
Worse speeds
Worse camp based counter jungling (run in, kill camp (usually wraiths), run out)
Slightly worse flexibility with routes (Fiora starting at red isn't bad, not having blue isn't the end of the world)
Better sustain
Better duelling capability (and therefore duel based counter jungling)
Slightly better ganks (though really you don't pick either for their ganks)
Similar scaling into late game



I'd pick Fiora over Shyvana if my team had a tanky top/mid and needed some proper AD damage. As an example, if it's Nautilus top and Morde mid or something like that, we don't have any real AD damage other than the carry, and we'd be tanky enough as it is.

Jungle wise, Fiora can duel almost anybody given they're equal levels. I find her a good pick against Shaco if you can play against him, her R follows his Q and if you find him in your jungle, you can easily out-duel him. Anybody you feel you can pin down and are restricted in their routes (like Amumu) are good, too. She has no CC, but if you find them where you expect to find them, then you WILL beat them in a fight.


Okay, that certainly makes sense. So they'll both totally snowball into late game if they do well, but Fiora is more about killing and harassing the enemy jungler in their route. Okay. Thank you!
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Xenasis (164) | March 11, 2012 4:39pm
Hmm, good question.

Comparing Fiora to Shyvana -
Worse speeds
Worse camp based counter jungling (run in, kill camp (usually wraiths), run out)
Slightly worse flexibility with routes (Fiora starting at red isn't bad, not having blue isn't the end of the world)
Better sustain
Better duelling capability (and therefore duel based counter jungling)
Slightly better ganks (though really you don't pick either for their ganks)
Similar scaling into late game



I'd pick Fiora over Shyvana if my team had a tanky top/mid and needed some proper AD damage. As an example, if it's Nautilus top and Morde mid or something like that, we don't have any real AD damage other than the carry, and we'd be tanky enough as it is.

Jungle wise, Fiora can duel almost anybody given they're equal levels. I find her a good pick against Shaco if you can play against him, her R follows his Q and if you find him in your jungle, you can easily out-duel him. Anybody you feel you can pin down and are restricted in their routes (like Amumu) are good, too. She has no CC, but if you find them where you expect to find them, then you WILL beat them in a fight.
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MaiLinna (17) | March 11, 2012 3:57pm
Xenasis wrote:



I'm glad you asked!

I thought that would prove controversial, but my reasons are really simple.

Take Lee Sin as a base (who we'd all agree hits the tier 1 mark), and compare him to Fiora.
Speed - Very much similar.
Survivability - The same, if not better for Fiora. Fiora's W parry, passive, and gigantic AS steroid all help this.
Ganks - Lee Sin is better, easily.
Counter jungling - Fiora is better, easily. Her duelling prowess can match pretty much anybody else in the jungle right now, and she can without doubt win quick trades. Mobility on her Q is brilliant, too.
Paths/Builds available - Lee Sin has better paths available, he can go for red or blue without hindrance, though Fiora isn't necessarily bad at that route, surprisingly. Furthermore, Fiora has a far better synergy with Wriggle's, and doesn't need to build all that much bulk, which the jungle doesn't offer. Has the option of Philo if she needs it, too, Lee doesn't.


TL;DR -
Fiora is better at counter jungling
Lee Sin is better at ganking
Other than that they're pretty much equal.


Terribly long time before I remembered that I had asked, but hey, I came back! x3 Shyvana is my main jungler right now - how would you compare Fiora to her? Who is the better duelist? When would you choose Fiora over Shyvana in the jungle?
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Xenasis (164) | March 10, 2012 10:30am

Btw how i can vote for this guide?


You click on the thumbs up button next to the percentage. However, I think the voting is broken at the moment, it was last time I tried, last night, to vote on something.
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KitsuneOuji | March 10, 2012 10:15am
Btw how i can vote for this guide?
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Tassadaritze | March 10, 2012 7:04am
Turns out, I was a complete noob in jungling xD
This really helped me out.
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Xenasis (164) | March 6, 2012 7:30am
MaiLinna wrote:

Xenasis, why is Fiora listed as a Tier 1 jungler? What is it about her that makes her so good?


I'm glad you asked!

I thought that would prove controversial, but my reasons are really simple.

Take Lee Sin as a base (who we'd all agree hits the tier 1 mark), and compare him to Fiora.
Speed - Very much similar.
Survivability - The same, if not better for Fiora. Fiora's W parry, passive, and gigantic AS steroid all help this.
Ganks - Lee Sin is better, easily.
Counter jungling - Fiora is better, easily. Her duelling prowess can match pretty much anybody else in the jungle right now, and she can without doubt win quick trades. Mobility on her Q is brilliant, too.
Paths/Builds available - Lee Sin has better paths available, he can go for red or blue without hindrance, though Fiora isn't necessarily bad at that route, surprisingly. Furthermore, Fiora has a far better synergy with Wriggle's, and doesn't need to build all that much bulk, which the jungle doesn't offer. Has the option of Philo if she needs it, too, Lee doesn't.


TL;DR -
Fiora is better at counter jungling
Lee Sin is better at ganking
Other than that they're pretty much equal.
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MaiLinna (17) | March 5, 2012 9:20pm
Xenasis, why is Fiora listed as a Tier 1 jungler? What is it about her that makes her so good?
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ProSentient (3) | March 3, 2012 9:33am
Thanks this really helped me out a lot. Thank you!

-ProSentient
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Barbarion24 | February 29, 2012 12:34pm
Amazingly helpful resource for any jungler! A must-read for those new to the jungle.
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Xenasis (164) | February 26, 2012 8:41am
I've played Mundo quite a bit myself, he's extremely fast in the jungle, I'll agree. I feel his lack of decent ganks or sustain (he gets extremely low) let him down a bit, however.

He's great at duelling though, too. He's a good jungler, but not the best thing since sliced bread!
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The Greek (4) | February 26, 2012 8:29am
My friend nice solid guide!I have to suggest you something.Now i have been playing a lot Dr. Mundo as a jungler!Man he is the fastest i had ever played even better than Shyvana(always talking about speed).His ganks are weak of CC but he does great damage.His sustain is ok.You do the Red buff route(starting at wraiths then red etc).Really try Dr. Mundo is so fast and outspeeds many other junglers!Most games i play with him when I m lvl 6 they are about lvl 4(sometimes 5 but and 3).You should start with Burning Agony and then Masochism.You upgrade Burning Agony only in the begginig dont upgrade it again.
Hope u try the Doctor
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KeeganTubA (1) | February 23, 2012 5:08pm
Great guide! A jungler's must.
+1 for sure.
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CannabinoidKilla | February 20, 2012 5:55pm
Thank you very much. I've been trying to learn how to jungle for some time now and this guide lead me to success. My first successful jungle, I chose Shyvana scored 10/1/13 and kept up with mids level the entire game. Scored a double kill gank on bottom at level 2 and it was popping off from there. This is a very well written guide and the most helpful thing to read if you want to learn jungling. 5/5
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JamesGandolfini | February 17, 2012 12:14am
Xenasis wrote:



Mainly for a better transition into late game as well as better jungling. Runic Affinity is a great choice on a lot of junglers, but in my opinion, better gank presence, better jungle presence, and better duelling presence is worth a little more. It's up to you, though. You can take Runic Affinity for a better jungle, but you won't transition as well, I guess that's more preference.

Remember, you give most of your blue buffs away after the first one, too. Your AP carry should have this but I don't think you should!


Love you! ty once again :)
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theadmin | February 16, 2012 8:46pm
+1 Very helpful guide i learned a lot about the jungling and the time of the spwan will now help me out in jungling.
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Xenasis (164) | February 15, 2012 4:34pm

Enlighten me again, Oh great Xenesis! Why you chose arcane knowledge instead swiftness and runic affinity? more CD reduction and a bit of E and W?

Ty in advance.


Mainly for a better transition into late game as well as better jungling. Runic Affinity is a great choice on a lot of junglers, but in my opinion, better gank presence, better jungle presence, and better duelling presence is worth a little more. It's up to you, though. You can take Runic Affinity for a better jungle, but you won't transition as well, I guess that's more preference.

Remember, you give most of your blue buffs away after the first one, too. Your AP carry should have this but I don't think you should!
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JamesGandolfini | February 15, 2012 4:27pm
Enlighten me again, Oh great Xenesis! Why you chose arcane knowledge instead swiftness and runic affinity? more CD reduction and a bit of E and W?

Ty in advance.
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PaBLoX (4) | February 9, 2012 8:01pm
Awesome guide, congrats =)
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Neoman170 | February 8, 2012 1:24pm
Nice guide! I just bought Olaf and wanted to try his jungling abilities instead of laning all the time! I'm never going back to laning now.
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Embracing (348) | February 8, 2012 4:47am
No reason for thornmail to ever be core on any champ besides Rammus.

And what are you trying to accomplish with that item build? A late game wits end is stupid - there are better items. You have no offense besides a Wits End. You'll be doing like no damage at all. >.>
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HiGHFiiVE | February 8, 2012 4:43am
Hey guys, if u wanna be really tanky then take this build:
Dodge Boots -> Wriggles (Build it later in Force of Nature)-> Warmogs -> Thormail -> Randuins -> Angel -> Wits End
_____________________________________
if you have this, you will NEVER, rlly never die
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Xenasis (164) | February 3, 2012 5:06pm
ChiefVoli wrote:

Why is WarWick on the meh tier?

  • No ganks pre-6
  • Extremely slow
  • Easily counter jungled
  • No variation in routes allowed
  • Doesn't fit in with his normal build
  • Gets slower as game goes on


The only thing he has going for him is his sustain imo.
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ChiefVoli (3) | February 3, 2012 3:33pm
Why is WarWick on the meh tier?
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Xenasis (164) | January 31, 2012 2:17pm
faker285 wrote:

New jungle lets anybody jungle. I have seen singed jungle :P btw can u post your favorite shyvanna build.


See the build at the top of the guide :)
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faker285 (4) | January 31, 2012 1:32pm
New jungle lets anybody jungle. I have seen singed jungle :P btw can u post your favorite shyvanna build.
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Xenasis (164) | January 31, 2012 8:42am

put graves on here i seen a few players playing graves jungle i wanna see how he stacks up on here personally i see him gank very strong and seems to survive well in jungle... and obviously he got good damage


He has a tiny slow and a small dash, not to mention needs to be close to do full damage, I'd barely say his ganks were good.

He would be passable in the jungle though, he is in tier 4!
1
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Christopher100 | January 31, 2012 4:26am
put graves on here i seen a few players playing graves jungle i wanna see how he stacks up on here personally i see him gank very strong and seems to survive well in jungle... and obviously he got good damage
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LoL-Guides1 (2) | January 29, 2012 11:28am
Best Guide for jungling ever!
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Taneren (177) | January 28, 2012 2:13pm
+1

Why?

Because this guide is MANLY!
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Lucantrop | January 28, 2012 1:00am
Xenasis wrote:



It's far, far worse than it was.

Warwick, for example, has FAR too much sustain compared to other junglers now. It's nowhere near as important as it once was. Health relics reward you more if you're low on sustain.

Sustain can lower speed on CERTAIN junglers, but not all. Mundo, Olaf, etc, do more damage when low on health. Though, usually, champions with high sustain (Shen/WW/etc) all have low speeds.


K, ty for clearing that up. :D
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Xenasis (164) | January 26, 2012 7:57am
snufkin wrote:

After watching the kiev tournament, i can pretty much say that your argument that counter jungeling useless got destroyed there. Both solo mid and m5 who dominated the tounrnament, used agressive counter jungeling, which was a major key in thier success.

P.S. thx for the replay on panth comment.


Yeah, I know.

This was, of course, before the bank system was implemented, though their counter jungling was more focussed on buff retrieval rather than XP denial for the most part. I'm a big Shyvana player myself (yes, even before Kiev) and played pretty aggressively (though obviously nothing Diamondprox level), and as such know!

I should really delete that chapter, lol
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snufkin | January 26, 2012 2:52am
After watching the kiev tournament, i can pretty much say that your argument that counter jungeling useless got destroyed there. Both solo mid and m5 who dominated the tounrnament, used agressive counter jungeling, which was a major key in thier success.

P.S. thx for the replay on panth comment.
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Vantrax | January 25, 2012 9:52pm
I would recommend this as an alternate for that Jungle Udyr build.

Great guide +1 from me.
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Xenasis (164) | January 25, 2012 10:08am
Lucantrop wrote:

I like the guide, but i dont understand one thing, whats up with the "sustain sucks now" thing, i dunno if you are joking or serious xD and how can sustain lower your speed? xD


It's far, far worse than it was.

Warwick, for example, has FAR too much sustain compared to other junglers now. It's nowhere near as important as it once was. Health relics reward you more if you're low on sustain.

Sustain can lower speed on CERTAIN junglers, but not all. Mundo, Olaf, etc, do more damage when low on health. Though, usually, champions with high sustain (Shen/WW/etc) all have low speeds.
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Lucantrop | January 25, 2012 5:49am
I like the guide, but i dont understand one thing, whats up with the "sustain sucks now" thing, i dunno if you are joking or serious xD and how can sustain lower your speed? xD
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ninjanatha9 | January 23, 2012 4:29pm
nice builds
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Xenasis (164) | January 19, 2012 8:33am
PsiGuard wrote:

EDIT: Wow Xen, 94%. Pretty awesome. Glad to see you're still keeping up with the updates and such.


Heh, yeah.

Was at 95% not long ago but it must've gone down since.

I've been meaning to update for a while, but I'm lazy and my guide bugged out recently, but meh, I'll fill it back up and update today, likely.
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PsiGuard (871) | January 19, 2012 12:11am
^Make sure you test boots with your champion and route(s). Some routes will require you to take cloth armor+pots or adjust your rune/mastery setup. Most boots starts will also need a leash, though not all do.

EDIT: Wow Xen, 94%. Pretty awesome. Glad to see you're still keeping up with the updates and such.
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DJbarnesy | January 19, 2012 12:05am
Xenasis wrote:



Arrggk I will try it out man :)
Depends on what champion, but for the most sustainable (or fast) ones, it's far better for ganks, especially since most people start with boots nowadays.
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Xenasis (164) | January 18, 2012 9:44am
DJbarnesy wrote:



Hey Quick question why did you choose boots to start? Wouldn't that effect the damage you take?


Depends on what champion, but for the most sustainable (or fast) ones, it's far better for ganks, especially since most people start with boots nowadays.
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DJbarnesy | January 17, 2012 8:47pm
Xenasis wrote:

Thanks for all the positive feedback!

What do you think I should add/change?


Hey Quick question why did you choose boots to start? Wouldn't that effect the damage you take?
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DYN4M1C | January 5, 2012 5:53pm
Voting up, For sure :D
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Zerbin (3) | January 4, 2012 11:11am
Very nice guide +1
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Xenasis (164) | January 3, 2012 3:49pm
snufkin wrote:

I've heared pantheon is preety good jungeler lately, and then i saw him on your guide in tier 2 jungelers. I tried to jungle him but it was slow, and his ganks were meh at best. Do you have general guidelines on how to jungle him, or maybe even a build here on mobafire which you recommend?

P.S: great guide, and bro hoof :).


Hi!

Well, Pantheon is a really good jungler for quite a few reasons -

1. His ganks are amazing. Meh is far from the case, his Q procs red buff, and dat R bro, dat R.
2. He can duel well, and that's really good for a jungler.
3. Decent clear times. Nothing to write home about but good. Make sure you max Q first!
4. Relatively sustainable because of his passive (moreso than anybody who doesn't have his passive, anyway)


There's only one jungle Panth guide on this site but I don't recommend it. Take the build from this -
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/mantheon-he-has-the-power-140714
But start with Cloth Armour and Potions and build a Wriggle's at the start. Go the normal jungling route.
Skill QWQE (the R > Q > E > W), ganking asap. He can likely go a route starting at red too but I haven't tried it.

Any more questions or queries, feel free to ask!
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snufkin | January 3, 2012 1:30pm
I've heared pantheon is preety good jungeler lately, and then i saw him on your guide in tier 2 jungelers. I tried to jungle him but it was slow, and his ganks were meh at best. Do you have general guidelines on how to jungle him, or maybe even a build here on mobafire which you recommend?

P.S: great guide, and bro hoof :).
1
[-]
I3lademaster | December 29, 2011 4:38pm
ty for this guide!
It helped me much.
Great one!
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JamesGandolfini | December 29, 2011 1:48am
Lots of thanks to both of you :)
1
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PsiGuard (871) | December 28, 2011 3:49pm
Also, Spiked Shell scales with armor pen. A lot of your damage output actually comes from your autoattacks, and you get pretty hard-hitting by late game. Magic pen marks would also be slightly useful, but like Xenasis said, armor pen is stronger for jungling ;)
1
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Xenasis (164) | December 28, 2011 3:32pm

Just one question. Why armor penetration runes on Rammus?


Far faster jungle - really.

Taking anything else would be a waste in that slot, too. Since they aren't primary, defences' contributions are lessened, and as such, it would be a waste, in all honesty, to have runes that aren't all that good.

I'd immediately change them if any defensive runes had marks as their primary, but alas, there isn't any.
1
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JamesGandolfini | December 28, 2011 2:43pm
Just one question. Why armor penetration runes on Rammus?
1
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Xenasis (164) | December 22, 2011 9:54am

Add Soraka and Veigar to your "Last Resort Tier." Soraka has stupidly fast clear times (even before the changes) and Veigar's ganks are even better than Sion's.

They're just, obviously, much better in lane.

And yes Veigar can jungle.


Hm, I guess so for Soraka.

I know Veigar can jungle, so can every champion in the game. SaintVicious has proved that countless times on stream (even before the change) - if I was to add every champion that could jungle I'd have 89 champions in the tier list.
1
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remeranAuthor | December 22, 2011 7:15am
Add Soraka and Veigar to your "Last Resort Tier." Soraka has stupidly fast clear times (even before the changes) and Veigar's ganks are even better than Sion's.

They're just, obviously, much better in lane.

And yes Veigar can jungle.
1
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Xenasis (164) | December 21, 2011 4:32am
Rarely will Volibear start with his Roar, though if he does, he should pull it back to the start point or use it as soon as the leash is given :)
1
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Deti | December 20, 2011 7:02pm
It's also a good idea if you're mid and with a ranged attack/ability that's ranged to hit the blue golem for pretty much any champion that isn't Shaco, I can't think of another that's negatively effected by this.
Volibear should never get leashed either.. Many times Volibear starts with his Roar and can sometimes accidently fear the Golem into out of range causing him to return with full health. Just something I noticed.
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appleblow | December 18, 2011 9:20pm
helped alot tnks
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Obamas Heart (2) | December 18, 2011 4:57am
Thanks for the guide. I was learning to jungle with Volibear, and your guide proved invaluable. Very nice and detailed, blah blah blah. Im sure you know what you got here :)
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Xenasis (164) | December 16, 2011 1:51pm
NicknameMy wrote:

I think you forgot to mention the brush gank.

Means, you go unseen into one of top or bot lane brushes and then strike the enemy out of nowhere.^^



Good point, I'll slap it in somewhere.

Thanks for reminding me!
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NicknameMy (153) | December 16, 2011 1:15pm
I think you forgot to mention the brush gank.

Means, you go unseen into one of top or bot lane brushes and then strike the enemy out of nowhere.^^
1
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Xenasis (164) | December 15, 2011 12:25pm
Deltamon wrote:

Thanks for helping me out on deciding with the new talents for Junglers but..

Why don't you take the smite spec for example in builds like for Rammus..

Why to take 3/3 on Mercenary.. When you could just take 2/3 on it, and then take the smite bonus +10 gold per smite use.. Imo 100% guaranteed 10g is way better than hoping that your ganks always kill targets..

Imo pushing people out from lane is already the damage done, to their experience and gold gain.. So you don't always have to kill every gank to be profitable jungler..

Not to mention that the rank 2 -> 3 is only +8 gold more, when you get +10g from using smite alone? So is there any real point to take it over the smite mastery?


The Smite mastery gives you +10 gold per smite. The Smite CD is 70, and the average game length is 37 minutes. If you use Smite every two cooldowns (which is honestly pretty generous, since after the start of the game you should be saving it for dragon/baron etc), you'll gain 150 gold, roughly. 20 kills OR assists give you 160 gold - even if you don't have many kills you'll have a lot of assists late game, you can be sure of that.

All in all they're pretty equal. I don't personally rate Smite over Mercenary, but you might, you certainly raise a valid point regarding Mercenary vs Improved Smite, and I'll look into it a little more, though on anybody that isn't defence, needless to say, it's wasted.

I'll look into the numbers more a little later, though I might end up changing it to Improved Smite!
1
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Deltamon (1) | December 15, 2011 11:58am
Thanks for helping me out on deciding with the new talents for Junglers but..

Why don't you take the smite spec for example in builds like for Rammus..

Why to take 3/3 on Mercenary.. When you could just take 2/3 on it, and then take the smite bonus +10 gold per smite use.. Imo 100% guaranteed 10g is way better than hoping that your ganks always kill targets..

Imo pushing people out from lane is already the damage done, to their experience and gold gain.. So you don't always have to kill every gank to be profitable jungler..

Not to mention that the rank 2 -> 3 is only +8 gold more, when you get +10g from using smite alone? So is there any real point to take it over the smite mastery?
1
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Xenasis (164) | December 14, 2011 9:36am
Booshido wrote:

love the mightyboosh reference, where i got my name :D


Wait, really?

I can't remember that in any of the show, and I've seen all three series (at least 3 times now, lol)
1
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RIPTUPcooler (1) | December 14, 2011 7:54am
a very str8 forward guide and alot of questions answered. my jungling route should be more stable now
1
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DJcivik (1) | December 14, 2011 12:04am
I've never jungled nor do I intend to jungle right now ( possibly in the near future, but not now. ). I've never been the ''wikifreak'' on any game that reads up on everything but this was really interesting. Since I don't jungle it helped me learn about how a jungler thinks and how to act when encountering a jungler. This will also help me live in harmony with my jungling friends. Thiś was the read of the week for me since I learned a ton of stuff and it also helped me kill some time.



+1.
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Booshido (70) | December 13, 2011 6:29pm
love the mightyboosh reference, where i got my name :D
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Xenasis (164) | December 13, 2011 4:49pm

Quite literally one of the best jungling guides, but the only things I don't like about some of your builds are...
Xin: rushing Yomu's instead of Black Clever. IMO: Black Clever is quite literally the most crucial item for Xin to truly succeed in pumping out enough damage equal to his late game tankiness.

Warwick: I don't find anything wrong with the items, I just find the rotation to seem... Weird. I don't understand why you would get Wit's End before Madred's...

Lee(Personal Favorite): I mainly go Wriggles, Mercs, Phage, Atma's for early game tankiness, mainly so I can be more aggressive and get away with it, but I guess the same could be said with Warmongs I guess, Warmongs, Trinity because its another I see more fitting; I mean each of his abilities are double tap, then ect. And I also use Strength Quints for instead of Desolations. Care to explain the difference?


The reason I go for Brutalizer/Youmuus before BC is because of the fact that the jungle doesn't give any big form of income, buying things in small parts is good! Youmuu's is overall better for Xin though imo, though it doesn't give as much raw damage, I feel the utility overall is better. BC is a last item that you rarely get, though Youmuu's has amazing synergy with Xin in general, you just have to look at his Q and W to know that. Tanky DPS in this metagame should rarely get items with so much AD.


As for WW, Wit's End will be dealing almost as much damage as Madred's at that point in the game, whilst also giving him MR. Later on, when I do get Madred's, Madred's will, naturally, deal more. He needs a bit of bulk first, too, and Wit's End is incredible on WW.


Oh wow I have Lee's Runes wrong, I should have 3 AD quints as an option, thanks for making me notice! Basically, as far as runes go, AD is for early, ArP is for late. You get 6 ArP marks for getting the ArP cap on jungle creeps combined with the Sunder mastery, whilst getting as much damage as possible if you do want an early game. Trinity (and yes, it is brilliant on Lee) would be great for laning, though after a Wriggle's, I don't think it's worth it, you'll be far too squishy, and though Trinity's great on Lee, so are his AD ratios, his Q alone has 1.8. Going Fatma's like you said would be more than viable, and is a question of preference, I sometimes go Fatma's myself in situations where we have low CC.
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DiabolicTrigger (1) | December 13, 2011 4:39pm
Quite literally one of the best jungling guides, but the only things I don't like about some of your builds are...
Xin: rushing Yomu's instead of Black Clever. IMO: Black Clever is quite literally the most crucial item for Xin to truly succeed in pumping out enough damage equal to his late game tankiness.

Warwick: I don't find anything wrong with the items, I just find the rotation to seem... Weird. I don't understand why you would get Wit's End before Madred's...

Lee(Personal Favorite): I mainly go Wriggles, Mercs, Phage, Atma's for early game tankiness, mainly so I can be more aggressive and get away with it, but I guess the same could be said with Warmongs I guess, Warmongs, Trinity because its another I see more fitting; I mean each of his abilities are double tap, then ect. And I also use Strength Quints for instead of Desolations. Care to explain the difference?
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PunicaDrink (5) | December 12, 2011 11:25am
GJ
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awesomelemon | December 11, 2011 6:36pm
Great tut will try Thank you!
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Zerky | December 10, 2011 12:22pm
+1 helped me a lot
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Xenasis (164) | December 10, 2011 5:44am
BorDD wrote:

ADD volibear lol


Waiting to see how he (and the jungle in general) gets changed in the next patch, I'm not expecting him to stay the same like Fizz did.
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BorDD (6) | December 10, 2011 4:54am
ADD volibear lol
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Xenasis (164) | December 9, 2011 8:57am
koksei wrote:

great job there :P
so many infos :) +1
but I'd definitely move kayle one tier up to average
she is "average" for sure :)


Maybe in the new jungle, though I'm refraining from making any big changes until the "new jungle" is changed, everyone can agree it was worse than before - and Riot WILL do SOMETHING to change it.
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koksei (162) | December 9, 2011 3:33am
great job there :P
so many infos :) +1
but I'd definitely move kayle one tier up to average
she is "average" for sure :)
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Pa1taimon (1) | December 7, 2011 7:33pm
Did someone forget to mention how awesome you were and how this guide should have >100% liked? +1 and very nice notes on jungling. To be fair, I think riot just wanted people to try to jungle more, and thats why they implemented an easier jungle. Still, I agree with you in the fact that the old jungle was alot better :'(
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Indeed545 (8) | December 7, 2011 12:18pm
Xenasis wrote:



I'm negative about her because she's been nerfed to the ground and is really, really bad now.

Sure, you can not like me, though asking me to kill myself over a disagreement about a champion is just a little extreme, don't you think?
Maybe, maybe not....
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Kassa4Life | December 7, 2011 3:04am
+1 =) Great jungle guide =) I love freekin troll to jungle with =) My vote = 666 !!
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Bl2306 (1) | December 3, 2011 3:10pm
OLAF BUILD IS AWESOME SO EXPLAINED AND WHEN I FIRST PLAYED AND USE YOUR BUILD I GOT 10/2 :D THANKS!
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Xenasis (164) | December 1, 2011 12:39pm
Indeed545 wrote:

Not so shure abot that...I played MANY times after the big nerf and I never got defeted with her. I don't like you. You are so negative when we are talking about Evelynn. Maybye you should kill yourself.


I'm negative about her because she's been nerfed to the ground and is really, really bad now.

Sure, you can not like me, though asking me to kill myself over a disagreement about a champion is just a little extreme, don't you think?
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Indeed545 (8) | December 1, 2011 6:08am
Xenasis wrote:



That is my opinion.

I did play Eve a LOT back from when she was nerfed because she was gamebreakingly OP in the jungle. I played her after her nerf a LOT, up until she was nerfed to the ground and her stun removed.

She's pretty bad in the jungle, especially after that nerf ages ago. The only thing that made her so powerful were her ganks, and she hasn't got her stun any more. She's not the threat she used to be.

Believe me, after you've played the game for a little longer, you'll look back on this post and laugh :)
Not so shure abot that...I played MANY times after the big nerf and I never got defeted with her. I don't like you. You are so negative when we are talking about Evelynn. Maybye you should kill yourself.
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Xenasis (164) | November 30, 2011 8:18am
Indeed545 wrote:


That's your opinion? I have only one question. Have you ever played jungle Evelynn??


That is my opinion.

I did play Eve a LOT back from when she was nerfed because she was gamebreakingly OP in the jungle. I played her after her nerf a LOT, up until she was nerfed to the ground and her stun removed.

She's pretty bad in the jungle, especially after that nerf ages ago. The only thing that made her so powerful were her ganks, and she hasn't got her stun any more. She's not the threat she used to be.

Believe me, after you've played the game for a little longer, you'll look back on this post and laugh :)
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Indeed545 (8) | November 30, 2011 6:33am
Xenasis wrote:

So is every champion!

Every champion jungles better since the jungle nerf. Saying one champion is better in the jungle is true, though it's true for a lot of champions. I'll have to check out the changes myself when they hit live servers tomorrow.

Every champion is good in their own respect, when played well, any champion can be good. My tier list is simply how good they are IN THE JUNGLE, ignoring late game, and anything else about the champion. Evelynn is getting some buffs soon with the stealth remake whenever that hits, I'll re-evaluate her then. She used to be really good though, but the only thing she had going for her were ganks, really, and they're considerably worse now.

That's your opinion? I have only one question. Have you ever played jungle Evelynn??
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ViableBear (6) | November 30, 2011 4:04am
Very nice guide +1
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Xenasis (164) | November 29, 2011 8:43am
So is every champion!

Every champion jungles better since the jungle nerf. Saying one champion is better in the jungle is true, though it's true for a lot of champions. I'll have to check out the changes myself when they hit live servers tomorrow.

Every champion is good in their own respect, when played well, any champion can be good. My tier list is simply how good they are IN THE JUNGLE, ignoring late game, and anything else about the champion. Evelynn is getting some buffs soon with the stealth remake whenever that hits, I'll re-evaluate her then. She used to be really good though, but the only thing she had going for her were ganks, really, and they're considerably worse now.
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Indeed545 (8) | November 29, 2011 8:05am
Indeed545 wrote:

Evelynn is an awesome jungler. You just need to play her right... A LOT of people doesn't understand that... When you're batteling with the blue buff golem, first activate a Health Potion, then Hate Spike all the time, if you need use another Health Potion, Smite the golem and kill the rest of the monsters. That's how I begin(I do beleve it's the best way to start). With the blue buff and the rest of your Health Potions you will be able to kill the most of the monsters. And then you go back and buy whatever you need or save the gold and go back to jungling. Thats all.

With respect:
Indeed545
And one more thing. Now when riot kinda nerfed the jungle she is able to jungle whitout the runes.
So I think that you should move up Evelynn in your what champs are good for jungling.
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Indeed545 (8) | November 29, 2011 5:57am
Evelynn is an awesome jungler. You just need to play her right... A LOT of people doesn't understand that... When you're batteling with the blue buff golem, first activate a Health Potion, then Hate Spike all the time, if you need use another Health Potion, Smite the golem and kill the rest of the monsters. That's how I begin(I do beleve it's the best way to start). With the blue buff and the rest of your Health Potions you will be able to kill the most of the monsters. And then you go back and buy whatever you need or save the gold and go back to jungling. Thats all.

With respect:
Indeed545
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HeAt (101) | November 26, 2011 8:17am
Sick guide, i think rammus should be top of tier one atm but eh thats just me. +1.
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FlashPSX (1) | November 18, 2011 6:31pm
I REALLY love this build, i find that trading my Wriggle's for a bloodthirster late game is really helpful
1
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BorDD (6) | November 16, 2011 11:37am
Ye i know :) I have heard that he is really good jungler
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Xenasis (164) | November 16, 2011 9:31am
BorDD wrote:

Add fizz :)


He's only come out today for the EU - need to know how good he is in terms of jungling.
1
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BorDD (6) | November 16, 2011 7:53am
Add fizz :)
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Xenasis (164) | November 15, 2011 8:52am
DokuDeku wrote:

Is there a big difference between flat MR and MR/lvl runes? how much could it possibly be...


Everything does add up, though I'd still point you to personal preference


I always prefere MR/level for jungling and flat for laning.
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DokuDeku (1) | November 15, 2011 4:05am
Is there a big difference between flat MR and MR/lvl runes? how much could it possibly be...
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Xenasis (164) | November 14, 2011 3:37pm
Uris wrote:

Nice guide, realy helpfull. :)
But one question, for what u need flash cd recuction in masteries for shaco if u use ghost?:P
+1


Thanks for pointing it out - it's a mistake!

I won't bother changing it now, though. New masteries are out in the US tomorrow anyway, so it would be moot to do it now for but a few hours. I'll wait for the new ones to be up, but thanks all the same!
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Uris | November 14, 2011 3:33pm
Nice guide, realy helpfull. :)
But one question, for what u need flash cd recuction in masteries for shaco if u use ghost?:P
+1
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Xenasis (164) | November 13, 2011 4:49pm
ieatsmeats wrote:

An excellent guide. You may however consider adding Morgana to your last resort tier. It is indeed possible to jungle her, but isn't optimal in any way.


Technically it's possible to jungle with anybody - my tier list only includes champions that I feel you'd be better with them over not having a jungler, but with Morgana (or people like Malzahar or Orianna), I feel you'd be better off not having them at all - though of course you might disagree, the tier list in general is wholly based upon opinion.
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ieatsmeats | November 13, 2011 4:46pm
An excellent guide. You may however consider adding Morgana to your last resort tier. It is indeed possible to jungle her, but isn't optimal in any way.
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Xengo | November 10, 2011 1:16pm
Thanks man, i've never really jungled but this will help me a lot.
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Xenasis (164) | November 10, 2011 1:09pm
MrFatPanda wrote:

Change your english, its quite horrid and pretty hard to understand at times.


Really?

I think it's ironic that you missed out an apostrophe and capitalisation of English, though I always have room for improvement, where did you see some bad English? Quote some for me and I'll get right to it :)
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MrFatPanda (1) | November 10, 2011 9:29am
Change your english, its quite horrid and pretty hard to understand at times.
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Xenasis (164) | November 4, 2011 3:39pm
Un3xist wrote:

In trundle build, you take flash and smite but upgrade in masteries smite, ghost and flash
lol wut

still +1


Ah, my bad. I used to have Ghost, must've put a point in Flash without taking the one from Ghost.

Thanks for the heads up.
1
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Un3xist | November 4, 2011 3:35pm
In trundle build, you take flash and smite but upgrade in masteries smite, ghost and flash
lol wut

still +1
1
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Xenasis (164) | November 3, 2011 9:41am
BorDD wrote:

Put shyvana into the list?


She's only been out for one day in the EU, need to analyse her a little more, first :)

She seems fast and a very good duellist, yet the lack of sustain and reliance on red for ganking don't do her any favours. Those dragon ganks can be pretty good though.
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BorDD (6) | November 3, 2011 12:37am
Put shyvana into the list?
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Xenasis (164) | October 30, 2011 9:07am
Ollieman wrote:

Haha , i saw SK Nyph do a Blitzcrank Jungle...very strong.
Explain.


Considering he's from SK, and is one of the best players in the world, he can likely make anything work.

It's not really all THAT viable. Tier 5, if anything. It's like jungling with Poppy. Sure, it's fun for a laugh, but it's not viable in my eyes.

If you see Nyph jungle Blitz in a tournament, give me a call, but for solo queue or whatever - it's just for fun :)
1
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Ollieman (2) | October 30, 2011 9:02am
Haha , i saw SK Nyph do a Blitzcrank Jungle...very strong.
Explain.
1
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j3drz3j | October 30, 2011 8:49am
+1
I respect your hard work on this guide, as I wanted to try jungling this will be really useful
1
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AsheTheBlast | October 29, 2011 5:01am
Awesome job, thanks for taking your time doing this! Really helpful for people like me (hehe).

Thumbs up!
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Xenasis (164) | October 23, 2011 7:29am
Explosions wrote:

Hello :D
I'm curious as to why you put my favorite jungler (malphite) on the Kind of Meh list. When I jungle with him he's very strong and quick in the jungle (never comes close to dying) and as soon as he hits 6 he's a strong ganker with his ult and slow. What about Cho'gath makes him (cho) a better ganker than Malphite? Cho regenerates his health with each kill, but if you time it appropriately Malphite has 10% more health every time you go into a pack of monsters. Sorry for the wall of text :D thanks for the guide.


Malphite -
Bad survivability
Bad sustained jungling
Poor pre-6 ganks
Very easily counter jungled due to being blue dependant
His build doesn't work all that well with jungling

Cho -
I never said Cho was a better ganker than Malphite, though here are some reasons -
Cho is the most versatile jungler in the game
Needs no items (or runes/masteries, really) but a Cloth Armour (no pots) to jungle successfully, very item independent and can build his normal stuff and still jungle successfully
Cho's counter jungling is insane due to his Feast
Hard to counter jungle successfully


If you enjoy playing someone, I'm not going to stop you, but it's fairly agreed that Cho's better than Malphite, unfortunately :(

Malphite's in need of some serious buffs, hopefully Riot will see to that some time soon, I'd agree that he is real fun to play!
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Explosions | October 23, 2011 7:00am
Hello :D
I'm curious as to why you put my favorite jungler (malphite) on the Kind of Meh list. When I jungle with him he's very strong and quick in the jungle (never comes close to dying) and as soon as he hits 6 he's a strong ganker with his ult and slow. What about Cho'gath makes him (cho) a better ganker than Malphite? Cho regenerates his health with each kill, but if you time it appropriately Malphite has 10% more health every time you go into a pack of monsters. Sorry for the wall of text :D thanks for the guide.
1
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Xenasis (164) | October 22, 2011 9:47am
BorDD wrote:

Amumu is the best jungler ever!


He's not THAT great in the jungle - he's better than average but not one of the best.

He's just an awesome champion - that happens to be much better in the jungle than in lane, since he sucks in a lane.
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BorDD (6) | October 22, 2011 9:43am
Amumu is the best jungler ever!
1
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Thundercles | October 19, 2011 11:48am
How on Earth is this guide only rated 94%? Thank you so much for putting the effort into this!

I just made level 30 not too long ago and have been trying to learn to jungle ever since I got my runes and started playing in games that it was a semi-requirement. The results have been... well, humiliating doesn't do it justice.
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Xenasis (164) | October 16, 2011 2:38pm
Nabrik wrote:

Kinda funny Skarner, a champ labeled as a jungler, is worse than nocturne whos labeled only as a melee assassin xD but still a great guide helped me learn how to jungle


Yeah...

It's also ironic that in the champion spotlights, Phreak jungled with Skarner, and laned with Riven, when Skarner's bad in the jungle and mediocre in a lane, and Riven's bad in a lane and awesome in the jungle.

Skarner's so badly designed, hopefully that buff helps him next patch!
1
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Nabrik | October 16, 2011 2:10pm
Kinda funny Skarner, a champ labeled as a jungler, is worse than nocturne whos labeled only as a melee assassin xD but still a great guide helped me learn how to jungle
1
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HeartlessCat | October 12, 2011 10:55pm
Nice detailed guide.. Dam I still have lots to read.. Now I know how to jungle better
1
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Daromith | October 5, 2011 6:06am
well i'm not going to argue anymore, but i am however going to send you a video or something of me in early jungle and ganks. i know i cant move you to a different conclusion but for the sake that i'm a determined jack ***, i must make the final comment. i just want to show you how effective his early jungling is even though he can be shut down pretty easily (while not completely). expect a message from me some time, not soon cause lolrecord dosnt work well on my current comp >.>

P.S.: like i said ive abandoned you making him tier 3, i just want you to see how i play him, because hes really fun and i want more people to play him. so dont think these are comments trying to badger you, because they are not
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Xenasis (164) | October 4, 2011 3:07pm
I feel Sion is a little too dependant on blue early on, though. You mentioned about his shield, but that's all he has other than his E, if his uses his Q for jungling, he'll be out of mana, as if he uses it to invade too often. A good jungler will destroy Sion when he's most vulnerable early on in the match - and since he's melee, he pretty much needs full health to gank properly.

I get where you're coming from, he's good in the right hands (as any jungler is, really), but I don't see why he would outshine Gragas, Skarner, Rammus, etc. Gragas has his W, a pretty good clearing tool in his E, free health, more consistent ganks, etc.

I'm glad you're giving reasons though, rather than just "Y SION NO TIER 1?!" - it's honestly made me think a lot about him, though for now, until he gets a buff (I'm anticipating him getting remade soon) he's staying there, sorry :(
1
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Daromith | October 4, 2011 11:58am
i understand where you are comeing from, he is fairly red dependent and he may not have a strong sustain or invasion, but he is still much better than alot of the tier 3 junglers, at least when i play him. im not saying that im good at him by any messure, its just that i think that he ought to be a lil higher than he is. i know in the right hands he can be better than you have him and in my opinion should be atleast in tier 3. Sion has a passive shield that lets him jungle in the early levels untill he gets a wriggles, then he can bypass everything and even counter jungle. this is all at about 6 min mind you so he is somewhat slow, but is faster than some. i just find it odd that he is lower than gragas (seemingly because of gragas's passive and W)
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Xenasis (164) | October 4, 2011 11:49am
Glad to know I've helped a fellow out!

Sion is a tricky jungler to rank. He has no sustain, can be invaded easily on, and has a terrible invade himself, but his ganks can be pretty good.

AD Sion isn't all THAT viable in general though unfortunately, unless he gets some buffs he's going to stay there. I've tried him out myself and honestly, he wasn't all THAT good. He's very niche, unfortunately :(

Sorry, but I only put junglers that are/have been tier 3 in that guide section :(
1
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Daromith | October 4, 2011 11:43am
i love the guide, really got me into jungleing and now i main jungle. anyway, i seriously beg you to reconsider where Sion is. He is one of the best junglers i have ever played and i know he deserves better than kind of meh. please, read this guide and try out their jungle sion, i don't take credit for it but it is the best jungle sion guide i have ever read. at least show this under the "Where Can I Find Builds/Guides For X Jungler?" thingy. Link: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/the-art-of-jungle-sion-127175
1
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Xenasis (164) | September 27, 2011 8:40am
Ssyrak wrote:

I mentioned your guide in my Cassiopeia Jungle Guide. Thanks a lot!


I feel honoured! Thanks for mentioning it!

Why don't you get Miasma at level 1, by the way? It deals the most damage at level one assuming they're hit for the full duration (like Blue Buff is)!
1
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Ssyrak (32) | September 26, 2011 11:26pm
I mentioned your guide in my Cassiopeia Jungle Guide. Thanks a lot!
1
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Xiron (112) | September 25, 2011 9:31am
Pure awesomeness <3
1
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Xenasis (164) | September 19, 2011 4:02pm
AresGod wrote:

This guide has now taught me to jungle!
I'm now a very happy player, and it's all thanks to you.

THANK YOU!!


Very glad I could've been of help!

Glad that people have such a warm response to it :)
1
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AresGod (3) | September 19, 2011 3:55pm
This guide has now taught me to jungle!
I'm now a very happy player, and it's all thanks to you.

THANK YOU!!
1
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Xenasis (164) | September 18, 2011 5:33am
atu1213 wrote:

You really should add another item to the warwick build (incompleted). Otherwise I love it.


It's not incomplete at all - there's just WAY too many variables which would alter what you built next. If they're AP heavy, or AP is doing well, you might want a Force of Nature, or if you're doing well as well as that, a Wit's End, if they're AD heavy or AD is doing well, a Thornmail would be good!

It's not incomplete, it's just random bulk :)
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atu1213 | September 17, 2011 4:18pm
You really should add another item to the warwick build (incompleted). Otherwise I love it.
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Hampous | September 17, 2011 2:03pm
Very usefull guide, much information. Was happy to read it all through cus im new to jungler. Just bought trundle, bacause i havent seen someone play him. Im someone know anything bout him, or play him. You can please contact me :) Im open for tips and chats! once again, Great guide!
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Xenasis (164) | September 16, 2011 10:44am
Yeah, I know, teams can really suck.

You should always give blue buff to your AP carries though, red buff should go to you if you're playing Olaf, though!
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Akalidakas | September 16, 2011 10:09am
I'm playing with a Olaf Jungler and its very good...

The only thing that bothers me is when your randomly chosen team doesnt know HOW to play with a jungler in group. And the most of the time I end up in groups like that.

They steal the buffs and monsters without asking, push too much and make gankings almost impossible, throw their lifes away expecting that the jungler can help they resolve their problems miraclelously or go do some other stuf while the jungler have to stop jungling to guard the tower.

The key to win with a jungler is to know how to use its roamingness at their best, with precise ganks, dragon control, map awareness and baron domine.

I think that each and every jungler have to create a build to, at the end, solo Baron. Its not a great idea, but its a garantee that you by yourself can kill the baron, with the help of your team you can do it quickly. Also, if your team is good enough to hold the enemy team long enough to you solo, better, the buff would be an unhappy surprize to the enemies...
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SirSpankAlot (106) | September 10, 2011 2:32am
Woah thank you Xen! Ur awesome , and yeah he is getting buffed next patch....
Base stats buffs etc for mana regen which he was lacking. Also thank you for voting up on my guide! it means alot to me seeming i never thought i would reach top skarner guides haha:P
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Xenasis (164) | September 9, 2011 2:55pm
I only had the guides for junglers in my tier 3 or higher, Skarner is currently in tier 4.

I feel he's pretty poor, compared to other junglers.

I'm hoping for a buff next patch - and I've seriously been considering moving him up to tier 3, he's boarderline between the two - in my opinion, right now.

I just had a look at your guide though, and it looks EXTREMELY good, gave it a +1, and if I do move Skarner up, I'll seriously consider yours - though I'd definitely have to look through other Skarner guides first!
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SirSpankAlot (106) | September 9, 2011 2:30pm
Are you ever gonna update your favourite jungle skarner build >=3? I dont see one yet:D
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Xenasis (164) | September 4, 2011 2:28pm
Symphunny wrote:

whoa my cho'gath guide got up there <33


It deserves it :)

Edit:
Also, Hatsune Miku <33333333333333
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Symphunny (31) | September 4, 2011 1:31pm
whoa my cho'gath guide got up there <33
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Matosque | August 30, 2011 12:35pm
Best Nunu BUILD Evar !! I love this !
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Smithore | August 26, 2011 5:04pm
Xenasis wrote:
I'm almost certain it's the XP, since you get to blue being level 3, and get to wraiths being level 2, rather than 2 and 1, respectively!


You're right, of course. I tried it with 4 points in Sorcery instead of Alacrity, and I was still able to take down the Blue Golem. Thanks for the advice! I'll try this in a real game soon.
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Xenasis (164) | August 26, 2011 10:33am
I'm almost certain it's the XP, since you get to blue being level 3, and get to wraiths being level 2, rather than 2 and 1, respectively!

Glad I could help though, if you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask!
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Smithore | August 26, 2011 10:05am
Thank you for the suggestion. I played with the masteries until I found something that allowed me to take down Blue Golem. I'm still summoner level 16 (no runes), and I went 8/0/8 with my masteries.

In Offense, I put 4 points in Alacrity (increase attack speed by 4%)
In Utility, I put 4 points in Awareness* (increase experience by 5%)
*your suggestion

I'm not sure which of these changes (Alacrity or Awareness) made the difference, but I'm able to hit Blue with more health, and am able to bring him down. I only have 1 health potion by the time I get to him, but that's enough. (I'm doing the Golem-to-Golem route)

Thanks for the help! I think Summoner Level 16 (no runes) is pretty tough to jungle with, but it's doable.
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Xenasis (164) | August 22, 2011 4:55pm
Make sure you take all 4 points in the experience mastery in Utility!

That should hopefully solve it for you, if it doesn't, tell me!
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Smithore | August 22, 2011 4:44pm
FYI, I tried the Golems-to-Golem route with Warwick at Summoner level 16 (no runes). Unfortunately I can't kill the Blue Golem before dying. I'm usually low on mana, with 1 health potion left and can only afford 1x Q and 1x W before I'm OOM. I can get him down to about 15% health before I die. My masteries are 14/0/2. Any suggestions?
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Xenasis (164) | August 21, 2011 4:01am
SwedeBeans wrote:

wow this really helped me out, the udyr build is just.. amazing!
I was soo close getting a penta with udyr first time i jungled with him, and when i had a lantern and boots of speed i suddenly had 4k gold :o...
Well +1 for you really helped me out!


Very glad to hear it! It's aimed at helping people - so it's done it's job!
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SwedeBeans (1) | August 20, 2011 9:02pm
wow this really helped me out, the udyr build is just.. amazing!
I was soo close getting a penta with udyr first time i jungled with him, and when i had a lantern and boots of speed i suddenly had 4k gold :o...
Well +1 for you really helped me out!
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Xenasis (164) | August 19, 2011 4:17am
Funnily enough, the few times I've played Olaf, I've done that route too, it's the best way to go for him!

It was just a few that are examples, but sure, I'll add him!
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Ollieman (2) | August 18, 2011 11:30pm
Does that work?
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Rohammers (6) | August 18, 2011 9:11pm
Oh hey xenasis i play olaf alot but i dont do the blue golem wroute, olaf can do the golems to golem route and if you seen the live stream they did it there too so can you add olaf to the golems to golem?
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Xenasis (164) | August 18, 2011 7:47am
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Ollieman (2) | August 18, 2011 7:38am
Please put an noc build in in it :(
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Xenasis (164) | August 18, 2011 2:31am
MipeX wrote:

Very good guide, I have started trying to jungle Xin with the double golem route, but i always die at the blue buff.
I have 3 Quint Armor pen 9 mark armor pen 9 seal armor 2 AS glyph (still buying those).

I also have the right masteries, but i still die. Are those 7 AS glyph going to make a diffrence? because i see you surviving the blue buff with much health. You also have way more gold then i have when i finish the wolf camp. Can you give me some tips ? What am i doing wrong ?


It might be down to skills and how you use them!

I use the order Q > W > Q > E (though Q > E > Q > W is viable for early ganks, which Xin is great at)

Use your Q RIGHT after an auto attack, it resets the timer so you get a free attack in!
Your W should be used right after your Q too, really important for the blue wraith, which is likely where you're losing the majority of your health. For it, do - Auto Attack > Q AND W and you should be good!
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De4dstrike | August 17, 2011 8:39am
@speedolphins
He said that xin is totally independant to mana. Starting at blue is pretty useless because it just looses u hp and the buff doesnt affect u at all, that Cdr isnt that good on xin either^^
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TigerBladezz (5) | August 16, 2011 5:16am
Every player should see this build it is amazing and helps so much
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deas13 (1) | August 13, 2011 10:37pm
i was wondering if there was anychance of you including jungle builds for trynd and lee sin? i like both of them alot and have figured out enough i think but it helps me alot to have something t check it against
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yougoplayer | August 13, 2011 4:32pm
Very detailed and helped me a lot, since I am not a great jungler.Getting better and better with jungling now. :D
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Pinksagee (2) | August 13, 2011 11:33am
Damn! Thank you man! Now I'm able to jungle without any problems! :)
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MipeX | August 12, 2011 12:37am
Very good guide, I have started trying to jungle Xin with the double golem route, but i always die at the blue buff.
I have 3 Quint Armor pen 9 mark armor pen 9 seal armor 2 AS glyph (still buying those).

I also have the right masteries, but i still die. Are those 7 AS glyph going to make a diffrence? because i see you surviving the blue buff with much health. You also have way more gold then i have when i finish the wolf camp. Can you give me some tips ? What am i doing wrong ?
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voidflame | August 10, 2011 11:47pm
Very informative!
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kiddid | August 10, 2011 3:25pm
AWSOME build every player should see this,this is what got me jungeling and now i do it all the time!
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kiddid | August 9, 2011 10:03am
great build
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kiddid | August 9, 2011 10:03am
great build
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Xenasis (164) | August 8, 2011 3:39pm
Yeah, I wish Shen wasn't so slow myself, but meh, can't be helped.
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BGOrion | August 8, 2011 3:02pm
Yeah, I figured it out - had the defense masteries for a normal tank, which obviously made a huge difference :) Now I can farm without a problem. He is a bit slow though, unfortunately. Complete route at 5:00 or so... Thanks for the reply!
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Xenasis (164) | August 7, 2011 8:15am
Funnily enough, the Shen route I showed was post-nerf Shen!

Doubt the HP quints will make any difference! I pretty much used the same runes as you.

Are you sure you're using Feint throughout the route? Shouldn't be the reason, but it will help!

I honestly don't know what gets you so low - try missing out the big wolf if you're really struggling.

Make sure you Vorpal Blade the wolf and blue only when the debuff isn't up, I know you said that you don't at rank 1, but on those two it's super important!

I would re-try it, but in all honesty, I don't actually own Shen. I tried him on his free week when I screenshotted it but didn't really enjoy him THAT much, and he was nerfed anyway, so I didn't bother. Stonewall has a route up where he finishes with similar health too, so I don't know in all honesty.
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BGOrion | August 7, 2011 6:42am
Hi there, nice guide indeed. Deserves a top spot on this site!

I have a question concerning Shen jungling, since he got a bit nerfed lately (flat dmg on Vorpal reduced, scaling increased). Have you tried jungling with him ever since? I tried the big-wolf-blue-wolves-wraith-red-golems route with arm pen marks, armor seals and mag res glyths, 1 HP quin and 2 dodge (only ones I got) (starting stats 59 armor, ~580hp). Masteries 9/21/0. I get down to ~20 hp after blue and sometimes even die. Never managed to get the second golem at the end too (so ganking is surely out of the question). The screens on the guide show a Shen doing far better than I can (almost 100 more hp before the blue), so I was wondering if there is something I am missing (I use Vorpal only when it expires, til it gets lvl 2, then spam it; never overlap/forget to use pots)? Maybe two more hp quins will make some difference but still won't be able to gank after the first round... Any tips are welcome!
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Xenasis (164) | August 6, 2011 6:11am
PsiGuard wrote:

Very nice guide and well put together. One suggestion I have is to add Greater Glyph of Scaling Magic Resist to the jungle runes section. A lot of junglers can really use the extra survivability, and they're also cheap like Greater Glyph of Magic Resist. Also, the flat runes aren't helpful until level 4 or 6 when you gank, and aren't necessary until post-6 when you target mages with their ults up. By that time, the scaling runes will have almost caught up to the flat values. I believe the turning point is level 9 for those.


Yeah, I guess I will, thanks!
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dom (3) | August 6, 2011 3:10am
+1 You gave me wish to jungle again!!!=)
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PsiGuard (871) | August 5, 2011 11:55pm
Very nice guide and well put together. One suggestion I have is to add Greater Glyph of Scaling Magic Resist to the jungle runes section. A lot of junglers can really use the extra survivability, and they're also cheap like Greater Glyph of Magic Resist. Also, the flat runes aren't helpful until level 4 or 6 when you gank, and aren't necessary until post-6 when you target mages with their ults up. By that time, the scaling runes will have almost caught up to the flat values. I believe the turning point is level 9 for those.
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KThing | August 4, 2011 1:09am
This is awesome, im currently working on Udyr and there are some nice tips here! Should make it easier to jungle early on!

Cheers!:D
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Xenasis (164) | August 2, 2011 6:11pm
KidTator wrote:

I tried to jungle Nunu runeless. But when I try to follow guides with runes I always die at either wraiths or red...



Yeah, you might have to adapt to a different route.

Try the sustained route, and see if that works, or even better, if you can manage the golems to golem route, that would be fab. Not sure on if you can or not since I'm not a big Nunu player, and haven't tried jungling with him runeless, but I'm SURE a sustained route would work on him.

Edit: Hm, that might make a good paragraph for that section!
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KidTator | August 2, 2011 6:09pm
I tried to jungle Nunu runeless. But when I try to follow guides with runes I always die at either wraiths or red...
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Homero Damo (1) | August 2, 2011 5:50pm
Damn!
Amazing jungle guide! +1
i made a counter jungle video, see this guys =]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gho2DViNDtQ



peace.
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Xenasis (164) | August 2, 2011 7:44am
Oh yeah, thanks for the heads up, I'll have to change that!
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Voilak | August 2, 2011 7:43am
In the section "What Makes a Jungler?" at the topic "-Ganks" You mention about eve stunning when she exists her stealth.
I also see further down that you last edit this guide at 30/7/2011.

Evelyn does no longer stuns but she slows her opponent for 3 seconds.
Overall +1 guide. GG
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Xenasis (164) | August 2, 2011 5:08am
fabio_css wrote:

inpossible to jungle with ur amumu, whan blue is out ofc. u should probablu start with cataclysm of protection


Actually, no.

I've done the route myself, and do it extremely easily started from blue.

"Cataclysm of Protection" isn't a thing.
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fabio_css (1) | August 1, 2011 6:50pm
inpossible to jungle with ur amumu, whan blue is out ofc. u should probablu start with cataclysm of protection
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Xenasis (164) | August 1, 2011 12:24pm
I kind of do a little at a time, which surprisingly didn't feel like a lot of time.
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bobo794679467946 (9) | August 1, 2011 12:04pm
wtf how long time you used on this guide
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Xenasis (164) | August 1, 2011 6:35am

So I see that you said that the Tryn changes were nerfs to his jungle. While he can't gank as well, his jungle actually has really good sustain now. The reason for this is that you can't/shouldn't be using crit runes any more on him. AS Runes give you a better junlge since every hit now gives you fury, so instead of relying on luck to get crits, you have sustained 5 fury per hit which makes your jungle a lot more predictable.


Believe me, I was a big Tryn jungle player pre-patch. I even had an in depth guide which is temporarily archived until they decide what to do with him.

I did mention his jungle was a LOT more predictable and similar each time.

However, he's suffered a LOT in the area of sustainability, believe me. Even if you do change your runes, it was SOOOOOOOOOO much better pre-patch, there's just no comparison. Funnily enough, AS Runes were better pre-patch as far as speed was related (and had a lot of sustainability too). In general, CrC is the way, but yeah, since your passive used to make you crit depending on your health, you'd rarely run out of health.

Now, you pretty much can't consume your Bloodlust or you lose LOOOOOOOOADS of speed, and it barely heals you now anyway...
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ScorpioRage | August 1, 2011 5:14am
So I see that you said that the Tryn changes were nerfs to his jungle. While he can't gank as well, his jungle actually has really good sustain now. The reason for this is that you can't/shouldn't be using crit runes any more on him. AS Runes give you a better junlge since every hit now gives you fury, so instead of relying on luck to get crits, you have sustained 5 fury per hit which makes your jungle a lot more predictable.
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Xenasis (164) | July 31, 2011 7:23am
You can *technically* jungle with anyone, but people such as Twitch and Soraka aren't good at enough things to make them viable.

My "meter stick" of viability is if your team would do better with them as a jungler, or not having a jungler at all.
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camejko | July 31, 2011 7:21am
its easy to jungle with twitch..(funny jung.) but his buff dont know if it help..
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Xenasis (164) | July 31, 2011 4:24am
camejko wrote:

twitch jungle hm,. ?


Not sure if serious
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camejko | July 31, 2011 2:46am
twitch jungle hm,. ?
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shikatsume (52) | July 30, 2011 8:13pm
thnks :)) for the tip it surely helped me a lot :))
Your text to link here...
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Xenasis (164) | July 30, 2011 11:23am
Latency wrote:

Shouldn't rammus be in the demigod tier ? I find him really good in jungle.
Great guide btw :)


He used to be better, but I feel he's too reliant on ganks for a good jungle to be there.

He's borderline, though.
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Latency | July 30, 2011 10:31am
Shouldn't rammus be in the demigod tier ? I find him really good in jungle.
Great guide btw :)
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Halada | July 28, 2011 7:46pm
Great guide, +1!

Jungling is so much fun, everyone should know how to do it with at least one champion!

I posted a video of my GP jungle route for my friends, he's a fun jungler as well, albeit not as good as the God-tier. Feel free to critique/use it/whatever!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97au9OTXsO4
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Xenasis (164) | July 28, 2011 4:50am
Thanks <3
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Luther3000 (436) | July 27, 2011 7:43pm
Congrats on number one guide on the site Xenasis.

I upvoted the guide but I don't know how to do the cool green upvote banner thing :c
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Xenasis (164) | July 27, 2011 6:42pm
DuffTime wrote:



How... Dare you!


Funnily enough, I jungled as pantheon a few days ago (check my match history) (and/or ask Luther/Wintermond/Yuki) and went 9/6/15. Was only for lulz, but we ended up winning. THAT was because I was runed correctly (3 AD reds, 6 ArP reds, Armour Yellows, AD Quints). Also, Akali can jungle quite easily with the correct runes.
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DuffTime (670) | July 27, 2011 6:36pm
Nighthawk wrote:

Akali and Pantheon really can't jungle @lvl 1. Pantheon is just **** in general since he's been nerfed.


How... Dare you!
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vezzi | July 27, 2011 3:09am
This is the best jungling guide ever made on mobafire :) It exsplanes everything gj!
+1
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EliteCow (1) | July 26, 2011 5:17am
great guide :)
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Mackattack (1) | July 25, 2011 8:59pm
Tried out Udyr. Worked well for me. Very good guide on all jungling champs overall. +1
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Bigdeal (2) | July 25, 2011 7:26pm
Great and really in depth guide. I don't exactly agree with the tier list, but i'm not as much of a jungler as you are. I like everything else about this guide though. Awesome job.
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Xenasis (164) | July 24, 2011 5:32am
deas13 wrote:

hi i just wanted to say thanks for the guide its helped alot and i never say anything like this online so lol dont take it too lightly i actually registered on moba just to tell you that i really liked your guide its been close to a lol bible for me unfortunately i still suck but thats not your fault lol


Thanks, I'm glad it helped someone!

@NightElf
A lot of junglers can, off the top of my head, Jarvan, Nunu, Shaco, XZ, etc!

@Shikatsume2
Udyr is a BRILLIANT jungler, but he's surprisingly good in a lane too, like Warwick. Warwick is impossible to beat in a lane, and Udyr isn't too far behind!
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shikatsume2 | July 24, 2011 3:23am
is udyr really for jungle?
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NightElfMohawk | July 23, 2011 11:12pm
Hmmm, I was trying to find something I didn't know in here XD

by the way, I recommend adding that Xin Zhao can gank at level 2 if he starts @ blue or red. I've done it and even though I mess up my jungle path just a bit, that 1st blood is always worth it.
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deas13 (1) | July 23, 2011 7:54pm
hi i just wanted to say thanks for the guide its helped alot and i never say anything like this online so lol dont take it too lightly i actually registered on moba just to tell you that i really liked your guide its been close to a lol bible for me unfortunately i still suck but thats not your fault lol
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Xenasis (164) | July 23, 2011 2:35pm

Maybe some pictures of where to ward for counter jungleing


Thanks, that's actually a REALLY good idea! I'll get to work on a map!
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HotdogFreak | July 23, 2011 12:17pm
Maybe some pictures of where to ward for counter jungleing
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jhoijhoi (1892) | July 22, 2011 6:00am
Jebus doesn't count. Jokes ^^
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Xenasis (164) | July 22, 2011 5:54am
jhoijhoi wrote:

I was going to rec this, but Wrath beat me :(


And Jebus beat both of you!
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jhoijhoi (1892) | July 21, 2011 7:49pm
I was going to rec this, but Wrath beat me :(
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wRAthoFVuLK (535) | July 20, 2011 5:42pm
Yea, she has no reliable CC, only a small AoE slow before 6 that can be dodged not too difficultly...same with ult; you need someone with DEFINITE CC that CANNOT be dodged to jungle and gank efficiently.
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Xenasis (164) | July 20, 2011 4:34pm

rec'd.

Really informative, great format, overall a must-read terrific guide.


Thanks!



Very nice guide, you covered pretty much everything that you need to know to jungle and then some.

Just a quick note, I hear that Orianna actually can jungle very well and has a jungle clear time of a little bit under 5 minutes, I'm not sure if she actually can, but it's worth a shot.


Thanks, glad it helped! :)

She can jungle - just extremely badly.
Terrible itemisation, mediocre ganks, terrible survivability...
I don't think she's even worth mentioning to be honest...
Even my last tier of junglers are better than that.
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Hawkeyes007 (14) | July 20, 2011 4:02pm
Very nice guide, you covered pretty much everything that you need to know to jungle and then some.

Just a quick note, I hear that Orianna actually can jungle very well and has a jungle clear time of a little bit under 5 minutes, I'm not sure if she actually can, but it's worth a shot.
1
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wRAthoFVuLK (535) | July 20, 2011 10:19am
rec'd.

Really informative, great format, overall a must-read terrific guide.
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Xenasis (164) | July 20, 2011 4:06am
Ollieman wrote:

Yo Explain why you put(ted) udyr in the Demi God ?


When I did, he just wasn't what he used to be.

Kind of like Shaco at the moment, he's slowly deteriorating as time goes on and newer, better champions come out/are buffed.

Thankfully, Udyr got buffed JUST after I did change him.
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Ollieman (2) | July 20, 2011 2:55am
Yo Explain why you put(ted) udyr in the Demi God ?
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Xenasis (164) | July 17, 2011 8:10am
1. Thanks, I'll likely do that now.

2. Not really, but hey, it doesn't clutter up the page. On the only other forum I go on all you need is the url tag and it auto embeds, but meh.

3. Maokai is extremely good in the jungle and I've been considering moving him up a tier for a while now. The amount of pressure he can put on an enemy jungler, combined with his pretty good speeds and incredible ganks put him up there as one of the best.

4. I've seen it, just not when he had that. I'll look to spice it up a bit :)

5. That won't be too hard at all, I'll do that!

6. I would, but that would make it even bigger than it already is...
lol

Thanks <3
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jhoijhoi (1892) | July 16, 2011 7:57pm
Just a few things I noticed:

1) You need to add distinction to your Sub Sections. So "Ganks" could be coloured too, or underline: Ganks, just so they stand out a little bit more.

2) (not sure if you know about embedding videos?)

3) Love your tier list of junglers. I'm amused Maokai scores higher than Nasus though :P

4) "The Camps Inside the Jungle" - I don't know if you've seen DanteRebellion's Jungle Shaco guide, but his Respawn Times section is absolutely gorgeous, and I'm sure you could use it if you asked nicely and gave him credit?

5) I think you should splite up your jungle routes into different sections for ease of reading/navigation.

6) To neaten your Change Log, I'd suggest something like this:

Quoted:
12/5/11

- Added a new paragraph to the Counter Jungling section. Started getting to work some screenshots to go with the Jungling Routes section.
- Added the "Wraith Route" and the "Golems to Golem Route" to the Jungling Routes section. Blue Golem Route will be up soon, most likely tomorrow!

13/5/11

- Added some more bulk earlier in Xin Zhao's build - he really didn't need those damage items so quickly.
- Added the final (for now, anyway) jungle route, The Blue Golem Route, equipped with screenshots and all!

14/5/11

- Fixed typos, added a little more to the counter jungling section

15/5/11

- Made a section under Ganking that informs people about some of the best gankers at this moment in time, I'll most likely make sections for people's survivability and counter jungling under corresponding sections some time soon, Ganking is usually what people are most interested in though, let's be honest!
- Made a section in Counter Jungling which shows some of the best Counter Junglers so far, will do survivability based junglers some time soon!
- Changed out the Malphite build for an Amumu build, Amumu is just overall a better jungler - it seems stupid to have Malphite over him in the build section.


I think I've already +1'd this, but I'll hit it again just in case AND +rep you! Great guide!
1
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Xenasis (164) | July 13, 2011 10:28am
^ Glad you enjoyed my guide! Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about a bad team.

I'd imagine you've seen at least one high level play game - it's good to note how they ALWAYS counter jungle in groups, and help their jungler out in every possible circumstance.

Junglers shouldn't really need to ward THAT much anyway, supports should do most of it.

Remember, if they're in your jungle, chances are, their jungle is open to attack!
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MallyxLloyd (3) | July 13, 2011 9:01am
Great guide but I always get double counter jungled.. they always enter my jungle with 2 and they'll kill 2 camps close to eachother, so if I find one in my jungle I wait, steal buff with smite and start a fight with him..But after 3 seconds the second champion comes and kills me..No one of my team ever wants to either help me or come counter jungling with me...
I also get the problem of my team expecting me to ward every inch of the map alone. so mostly I'm at 2000gold lost due to my team flaming me for not putting down enough wards....
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Xenasis (164) | July 12, 2011 11:23am
liljongr wrote:

Guyz i can jungle with rammus without smite


No you can't.

No champion in the game can jungle without Smite.


You can kill stuff in the jungle without Smite, but any champion can do that, even Soraka. That isn't jungling.
Refer to my chapter on Smite. I have a whole chapter dedicated to how amazing it is.
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liljongr (1) | July 12, 2011 11:11am
Guyz i can jungle with rammus without smite with quite an ease if u want just add me in eu serv name liljongr
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liljongr (1) | July 12, 2011 11:10am
Guyz i can jungle with rammus without smite with quite an ease if u want just add me in eu serv name liljongr
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Xenasis (164) | July 9, 2011 4:14am

Great guide, essential for jungle beginners.

But you should move Cho up to god tier because he's a beastly counter jungler and can steal buffs outright with smite and feast without even ganking if you wanna play safe against a jungle win zao or something


I've been considering this for a while now, you know.

He is an absolute beast in the jungle, there's no denying that, but if he's worthy of the god tier... that's another story.

Maybe some time soon.
1
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AmethystRockStar | July 8, 2011 6:38pm
Great guide, essential for jungle beginners.

But you should move Cho up to god tier because he's a beastly counter jungler and can steal buffs outright with smite and feast without even ganking if you wanna play safe against a jungle win zao or something
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Xenasis (164) | July 8, 2011 12:59pm
lux123or wrote:

I love this guide. I'm going to buy olaf but can I jungle if i'm lv. 13????

thanks for the answers. :D


Olaf is pretty sustainable in the jungle - although, his main buying point is his speed.

I'm not sure myself, maybe would be possible, but I'd wager it would be quite dangerous. If you can, buy some Tier 1 armour yellows or something, they help a LOT!
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lux123or | July 8, 2011 12:56pm
I love this guide. I'm going to buy olaf but can I jungle if i'm lv. 13????

thanks for the answers. :D
1
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CaptainFail | July 7, 2011 7:50am
+1
Did the most of them.
The guide is awesome, Good work =)!
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Xenasis (164) | July 3, 2011 3:39am
Max Carter wrote:

Hey man, can you talk more about udyr? And Nasus isnt a good jungler, he haves slow but he needs to farm Q, even on the lane 2x2 he can farm more, its TOP priority: farm Q... so, asking for a jungler with stun and being solo top is much better, you will farm a lot more, your mate will stun, and you slow, its a 100% kill chance, at least 1 [:


Sorry, but I didn't want to single out every jungler, for an in depth explanation of Udyr, try the top rated guide, if I remember correctly, the Udyr one is brilliant!

I know, Nasus is a bad jungler, hence why he's lowest tier. He's still better than no jungler at all though.
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Max Carter (5) | July 2, 2011 7:49pm
Hey man, can you talk more about udyr? And Nasus isnt a good jungler, he haves slow but he needs to farm Q, even on the lane 2x2 he can farm more, its TOP priority: farm Q... so, asking for a jungler with stun and being solo top is much better, you will farm a lot more, your mate will stun, and you slow, its a 100% kill chance, at least 1 [:
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Xenasis (164) | July 2, 2011 6:03am
yoyomobb wrote:

I would like to comment this smite part.
- it is very usefull if your going to counter jungle. in fact i think it is the only reason why you should pick this.
- disagree somewhat on the more ganks part, will explain later.
- and it is useless late game.


I completely disagree with you there.

Smite stops YOU from getting counter jungled. Not just counter jungling the enemy.

It's not useless late game. Your team with a smite to secure/steal baron is HUGE. Not having a Smite on your team lets you EASILY get it stolen, it's you against them. Smite isn't JUST to steal Baron, and usually that's very hard against a good team, but it's also to secure it. ~1k true damage going down all at once makes it MUCH more difficult to steal it.

With Smite, you clear your jungle faster. The faster you clear your jungle the more ganks you can do.

Poppy can jungle, but she's MUCH better in a lane, so I'll add her, but keep her low.

I'll bump GP up now! Just been on Holiday for the last week!
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Zypre | July 1, 2011 3:14am
Saw an All Random pro-game yesterday (not sure what they were doing, but phreak was commenting) and I saw a poppy jungler (by TheOddOne <3)
i went to test it out, and I'd say that she is totally viable. her speed is quite good and she has a nice survivability. I could imagine that her ganks are quite beautiful too, but I haven't tested it.
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Cromatox (2) | June 30, 2011 5:18pm
+1

Very nice guide, I'm going to start being an jungler, because laning is getting to boring for me. :D

Thanks for the great guide. :)
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Xiaowiriamu (368) | June 30, 2011 8:13am
Nice list may need updating though due to gangplank being changed. ^_^

good job +1
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yoyomobb (2) | June 25, 2011 4:27am
Quoted:
Advantages of Smite -
+ Securing of buffs/dragon/baron
+ Much harder for you to be counter jungled
+ Faster (in some cases, by a huge amount) jungle times
+ More ganks, due to needing less time in the jungle for XP
+ Ability to counter jungle a LOT easier, you can steal their buffs with Smite
+ You only need a lower level to kill Dragon
+ More/faster gold, for items

So called "Disadvantages" of Smite -
- They know you're a jungler?
Well, this isn't really true, it's kind of obvious that if don't see a Warwick (for example) in a lane and there's only one top, that you're a jungler.
- It's "useless" late game


I would like to comment this smite part.
- it is very usefull if your going to counter jungle. in fact i think it is the only reason why you should pick this.
- disagree somewhat on the more ganks part, will explain later.
- and it is useless late game.

let me explain.

The reason to take smite is when you know your going to counter jungle. if your only going to jungle you might not need it. But when will you not need? if your teamwork is well enough and your hand isnt crooked. player skills make the difference here, as a lower skill player "needs" smite but a better skilled player "needs" a gank spell.
Steal Baron with smit is complete ********. in over 1000 games that ive played ive seen about 10 baron steals and only 2/3 of those were with smite. however dragon stealing might work better (IN EARLY / MID GAME!!) but still the fact that you waste a summoner spell to a chance to steal dragon / baron is just horrible.
However stealing buffs in early game works magnificently great, as your counterjungling you will notice a big difference in lvl of your oppenents jungler if you succeed.

Try and Buy or Fail and die
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cupocappuccino (1) | June 24, 2011 4:27am
Lovely build. Thank you for the hard work and informative guide.
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Xenasis (164) | June 23, 2011 8:29am
tajatysz wrote:

This guide is still great but some thing like...dissapoint me? I would put Gangplank to Average Tier, he isn't that bad to go to the Meh tier, and, dropping Udyr, the KING OF JUNGLE down to DEMIGOD tier? You made me cry.
"He's not what he used to be" He is, he is as good, as he was, for me, he still is the KING OF JUNGLERS.


Gangplank has no real survivability other than his W, he has terrible ganks, and his speed isn't anything to shout about really either. Add that to the fact that it REALLY doesn't fit into his normal build, as he usually needs Sheen/Crit, and he's really not that good of a jungler.

Apparently after this buff he's become a lot better in the jungle, but since the patch only hit today, I cannot test anything yet.

As for Udyr, name me one good reason why you'd pick Udyr over, say, Lee Sin? Lee Sin's still in that tier too. He's still a great jungler, make no mistake, Demigod doesn't mean they're bad, but going as far to call him the "King of jungle" as you put it, when compared to Trundle/Nunu is pretty crazy.
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tajatysz | June 23, 2011 2:05am
This guide is still great but some thing like...dissapoint me? I would put Gangplank to Average Tier, he isn't that bad to go to the Meh tier, and, dropping Udyr, the KING OF JUNGLE down to DEMIGOD tier? You made me cry.
"He's not what he used to be" He is, he is as good, as he was, for me, he still is the KING OF JUNGLERS.
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ggftw666 | June 22, 2011 5:31am
definetly a +1 from me. perfect guide in my opinion.
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kadun (16) | June 20, 2011 2:53pm
All i needed to complete my nunu jungling part :)
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Xenasis (164) | June 18, 2011 6:37am

fyi: the rammus masteries only have 27 points applied.


Oh damn, you're right! Thanks for telling me! :)
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BrokenElephant | June 17, 2011 2:13pm
fyi: the rammus masteries only have 27 points applied.
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Xenasis (164) | June 17, 2011 9:27am
btzz wrote:

I'm back to ask more newbish questions. ;)

In your build i see you suggest to buy vampiric scepter for xin zhao first, i don't have full mastery and rune set yet, but i find starting with vampiric scepter impossible.
Does scepter even work? If so, with what rune/mastery set?

What do you think about putting some points into def masteries for jungling xin?

When should i stop jungling and start helipng in lanes etc?


It works 100% for the runes I've included in this guide! As well as AS marks too.

I'd try going with Cloth Armour and 5x Health Potions if you're struggling, only ever put the 3 in defence if you're still struggling as far as defensive masteries goes.

As for stopping jungling, I'd recommend ganking whenever you have your ganking skill (E.G. Audacious Charge) and there's a lane to gank! If there's a lane to gank, gank it! If not, tell your team to stop pushing so hard and continue jungling!
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btzz | June 17, 2011 9:20am
I'm back to ask more newbish questions. ;)

In your build i see you suggest to buy vampiric scepter for xin zhao first, i don't have full mastery and rune set yet, but i find starting with vampiric scepter impossible.
Does scepter even work? If so, with what rune/mastery set?

What do you think about putting some points into def masteries for jungling xin?

When should i stop jungling and start helipng in lanes etc?
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tajatysz | June 14, 2011 11:19pm
Oh also, Udyr can jungle with the Golems to Golem route too.
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Xenasis (164) | June 14, 2011 8:45am
tajatysz wrote:

Really good guide, but few things are just not right for me.
#1 : Didn't see many(and most of them were bad) Trynda or Xin junglers, plus i don't think they are very good for jungling, so i wouldn't put them in Demigod Tier, they are more like Average or even Kind of like meh to me.
#2 : Well, you don't see many of them, but imo he's great jungler, it's pretty easy to jungle as him, he goes through jungle pretty fast and he's a good ganker, so i would put Master Yi in Demigod Tier.
#3 : "Udyr (Tiger Stance is the only stance that works without full runes/masteries, as far as I know)" Wa-wa-wait, WHAT? I have full masteries and almost no runes(9x AS Marks, 1x AS Quint) And im not having problems jungling with Phoenix Stance, but i just CAN'T jungle in Tiger, im leaving the jungle with lower lvl, doing it later and also with like 20% hp, while with Phoenix Stance i leave the jungle sooner, with higher lvl and with like 70% of max hp.



1. Tryndamere and Xin are amazing junglers, you must've just seen bad ones :)
2. I was considering putting Yi in demigod tier, I really was, I just feel that his lack of ANY self sustainability lets him down.
3. I have no idea - but whatever, I'll add something else :).

@Zypre
Pantheon -
Pre-nerf, I'd agree with you.
Post nerf, I feel he really doesn't have the stopping power he used to.
Caitlyn -
She literally has no tools to gank with. If the enemy has half a brain they would avoid the trap, and to slow them she needs to move herself. That, combined with the fact she's on of the best laners in the game but has no survivability makes her pretty bad in the jungle :(
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Zypre | June 13, 2011 8:57am
tajatysz wrote:

#2 : Well, you don't see many of them, but imo he's great jungler, it's pretty easy to jungle as him, he goes through jungle pretty fast and he's a good ganker, so i would put him in Demigod Tier.


Who are you talking about? you only ever say "he" without actually telling us WHO xD

tajatysz wrote:

#3 : "Udyr (Tiger Stance is the only stance that works without full runes/masteries, as far as I know)" Wa-wa-wait, WHAT? I have full masteries and almost no runes(9x AS Marks, 1x AS Quint) And im not having problems jungling with Phoenix Stance, but i just CAN'T jungle in Tiger, im leaving the jungle with lower lvl, doing it later and also with like 20% hp, while with Phoenix Stance i leave the jungle sooner, with higher lvl and with like 70% of max hp.

I personally find Tiger stance to be the best way - it doesn't deal AoE damage like Phoenix, therefore you can use the Turtle Stance after the main target is down - This allows for greater heals, since the non-main targets in Phoenix stance, are almost dead.
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Zypre | June 13, 2011 8:53am
Suggestions:
New Notable Ganker: Pantheon, his ultimate makes for some of the best ganks - also, If you are double-jungling with Shen, he can activate his ult, just after Pantheons ult. this makes for an unstoppable Gank Squad.

New Jungler: Caitlyn - she's not particularly effective, but she CAN jungle. her passive works well with the fact that almost all tough jungle spots have a nearby bush. Her ganking is also quite good, as she can stop a target just before the gank, by using her traps.
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tajatysz | June 13, 2011 8:10am
Really good guide, but few things are just not right for me.
#1 : Didn't see many(and most of them were bad) Trynda or Xin junglers, plus i don't think they are very good for jungling, so i wouldn't put them in Demigod Tier, they are more like Average or even Kind of like meh to me.
#2 : Well, you don't see many of them, but imo he's great jungler, it's pretty easy to jungle as him, he goes through jungle pretty fast and he's a good ganker, so i would put Master Yi in Demigod Tier.
#3 : "Udyr (Tiger Stance is the only stance that works without full runes/masteries, as far as I know)" Wa-wa-wait, WHAT? I have full masteries and almost no runes(9x AS Marks, 1x AS Quint) And im not having problems jungling with Phoenix Stance, but i just CAN'T jungle in Tiger, im leaving the jungle with lower lvl, doing it later and also with like 20% hp, while with Phoenix Stance i leave the jungle sooner, with higher lvl and with like 70% of max hp.

@Zypre
Wow thanks, i didn't really notice i did not say i mean Master Yi in #2 D:
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Stecchino DKS (4) | June 12, 2011 6:06pm
This is an awesome guide for junglers.
Really good work +1 from me.
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Xenasis (164) | June 12, 2011 8:22am
btzz wrote:

btw. is it even possible to jungle on lower summoner levels? I'm summoner lvl 17 and i find killing blue golem extremely difficult when i take double golem route with xin zhao if i want to do it quickly. I should wait for lvl 20 and some proper runes i suppose.


For junglers suited to lower levels, see my 4th chapter!

It's completely possible, but usually you NEED to use the more survivable junglers (E.G. WW/Turtle based Udyr etc)
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btzz | June 11, 2011 4:27am
btw. is it even possible to jungle on lower summoner levels? I'm summoner lvl 17 and i find killing blue golem extremely difficult when i take double golem route with xin zhao if i want to do it quickly. I should wait for lvl 20 and some proper runes i suppose.
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Ollieman (2) | June 11, 2011 1:56am
I LOVE IT..... Udyr pwns jungle with this build!
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ghost1313 (2) | June 10, 2011 3:27pm
Really nice guide to junglers...U did a gj over the info for each route and champ...I really think you love jungle (can't be explained otherwise)...Anyway,currently im using Amumu and he is really interesting and nice ganker...Anyway,+1..I'm out...
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ahrke | June 9, 2011 2:32pm
I'm packing a sack full of respect and throwing it your way. Thanks for the work you've done, it has helped me with jungling, and helped me enjoy LoL even more.
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Xenasis (164) | June 9, 2011 10:58am
btzz wrote:

Well you know, the problem is that after doing route it's confusing what to do next, at least for a newb like me.

Anyways, i'm mid lvl summoner, after i kill blue with my low lvl xin zhao and am almost dead i go back, what should i kill next? Lizard? And in case i've haven't lvl'ed up to 4 some minions and then try to gank?

btw. what skills would you suggest to max first on xin ?


I have a recommended skill order in my build for him listed at the top of the guide!

If you're almost dead after blue, I'd suggest going back to base, if there's still nothing to gank, get straight on Red Buff, then onto Double Golems.
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btzz | June 9, 2011 10:37am
Well you know, the problem is that after doing route it's confusing what to do next, at least for a newb like me.

Anyways, i'm mid lvl summoner, after i kill blue with my low lvl xin zhao and am almost dead i go back, what should i kill next? Lizard? And in case i've haven't lvl'ed up to 4 some minions and then try to gank?

btw. what skills would you suggest to max first on xin ?
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Xenasis (164) | June 8, 2011 3:21pm
^ Thanks for commenting. I'll try and make it more clear on which neutrals to kill after you finish that route, I just didn't want to make it seem like you should do that every time - after level 4 you should ALWAYS gank if you have the opportunity to.
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btzz | June 8, 2011 2:58pm
To me, a newb at lol it's very interesting guide that explains what jungling really is all about. However, as i said for me, the noob, there are still things unclear.

For example. You showed three routes. Once route is done without problems, what do now? Gank or shopping - okay. But what if there's no gank opportunity, what neutrals now? Should i just run between those that spawn more often and keep in mind when blue/red will be on?

A lot of dependencies comes into place after first route, so some hints what after that would be helpful.
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Werostehepic | June 8, 2011 1:43pm
Quick question? Why isnt poppy in one of those tiers?! she can jungle! i tested it and it works quite well
+ Her gankability is pretty nice since you can get ghost/flash and activate her W for a giant speed boost to setup for a great gank
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kildbanek | June 8, 2011 9:36am
got a bether build for ww it's called awesome jungle warwick
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Xenasis (164) | June 7, 2011 10:39am

Tryn can jungle without Smite. So can WW with the right runes/masteries.


No jungler can jungle without Smite.

Killing creeps in the jungle isn't jungling - it's much much more than that.
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JEFFY40HANDS (412) | June 6, 2011 2:09pm
Tryn can jungle without Smite. So can WW with the right runes/masteries.

But I do agree the benefit of Smite is sooooo potent it's worth the summoner spell slot over exhaust/ignite/ghost.
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GorgromWarcry | June 5, 2011 10:09am
Good Guide +1
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jippy | June 5, 2011 8:58am
kinda wish there was more jungle rammus stuff but other than that i rly like this
also u help me dicide what runes to get ty
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Xenasis (164) | June 5, 2011 3:28am

If you have time, You should add all Champion cons and proes. ;) I love to play Amumu in the jungle and ill think hes one of the best gankers, but you get a +1 from me, ;)


I would - but that would take for ever!

I tried to do that in the sections for the good gankers/counter junglers though!
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MarkusGlaas | June 5, 2011 2:54am
If you have time, You should add all Champion cons and proes. ;) I love to play Amumu in the jungle and ill think hes one of the best gankers, but you get a +1 from me, ;)
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SilkSpectreII | June 3, 2011 4:59pm
I was new to jungling when I felt like trying Warwick out for a spin and I immediately fell in love with him but being unfamiliar with the jungle (I'm usually Nasus or Kayle) this guide helped me a lot! +1
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Xenasis (164) | June 1, 2011 9:24am
Melarith wrote:

Additionally, I found a problem with your Wraith route.

It is A LOT more benefical to start at the wolves, then proceed to the Wraiths, and down the Golems. This will minimize "running time" and lead to an overall faster jungle.


Yeah - I know. A lot of the time, however, some junglers can't handle that route, especially some without runes - which can be a problem when this guide is aimed at people new to jungling.

I'll note that Wolves > Wraiths > Golems is optimal if you can handle it, though!
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Melarith (12) | June 1, 2011 6:29am
Additionally, I found a problem with your Wraith route.

It is A LOT more benefical to start at the wolves, then proceed to the Wraiths, and down the Golems. This will minimize "running time" and lead to an overall faster jungle.
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Xenasis (164) | May 31, 2011 4:10pm
r3omc wrote:

I miss MRes per level glyphs. They really are the best to take for any kinda offtankish played jungler. Nunu, Olaf, WW.
I personally use these runes on every jungler as I like the extra MRes, but I'd highly recommend it for at least the bulkier junglers.


I'm more inclined to go for the flat ones - the majority of the game is played with the flat ones giving more MRes, and they really don't give THAT much more anyway - however, I suppose it is just preference.
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r3omc (1) | May 31, 2011 12:15pm
I miss MRes per level glyphs. They really are the best to take for any kinda offtankish played jungler. Nunu, Olaf, WW.
I personally use these runes on every jungler as I like the extra MRes, but I'd highly recommend it for at least the bulkier junglers.
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Nollie | May 29, 2011 11:38pm
+1 Amazing Build
1
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sander12 | May 29, 2011 11:18am
:P
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Xenasis (164) | May 28, 2011 8:29am
@XZ
I'd beg to differ.
75 AD is NOT to be messed with, especially considering the fact that a BF Sword + Pickaxe = 70 AD and 2625g. It can result in some pretty crazy bursts. I could say that for XZ's charge if I wanted to, comparing it to Tryndamere's E, for example, but I won't.
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Raii | May 28, 2011 6:17am
Xenasis wrote:

@Nunu
Wow - you're right, and he main tanked for LLL in that game against CLG, and in most other matches I can find. I was sure they used Amumu that game...
I'll add some adjustments :)
I've seen him tank in a few of my games now (once yesterday, funnily enough) but I never thought he lives up to the job as much as, say, Amumu/Shen these days.

@XZ
E eats a LOT more mana (double), and sometimes you don't want the AoE for counter jungling - it kills the small creeps which is a lot of the time a very bad decision. Q also has higher damage when you take into account resistances, and a slightly lower cooldown, especially at lower levels and ranks...


Was your nunu comment ironic?

XZ: Do you skill Q on amumu or on taric? The main goal of these 3 skills is to disable, not to deal damage, same as Q on shaco, which is supposed to be for movement.
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Xenasis (164) | May 27, 2011 11:08am
@Nunu
Wow - you're right, and he main tanked for LLL in that game against CLG, and in most other matches I can find. I was sure they used Amumu that game...
I'll add some adjustments :)
I've seen him tank in a few of my games now (once yesterday, funnily enough) but I never thought he lives up to the job as much as, say, Amumu/Shen these days.

@XZ
E eats a LOT more mana (double), and sometimes you don't want the AoE for counter jungling - it kills the small creeps which is a lot of the time a very bad decision. Q also has higher damage when you take into account resistances, and a slightly lower cooldown, especially at lower levels and ranks...
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Raii | May 27, 2011 10:41am
@Nunu
I didn't say he was - he's meant to be an off tank/tanky AP imo.
- Nah, nunu is played as main tank in 99% of games, and probably in 100% of competitive games.

@XZ
You don't need to use your skills to jungle, but it certainly speeds it up a GREAT deal! You make a completely valid point, but I'd personally say that both were as viable as each other, if not TTS was better when it comes to Xin in the JUNGLE, in the lane I'd say E was better.
- Well, then isn't it the same if you skill E or Q jungle wise, since both will speed up your jungle a lot? Both will eat mana? It's not only my thought, as a quite high elo player, but everyone over 1700 elo I've met has suggested me to go REWQ.
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Xenasis (164) | May 27, 2011 9:17am
@Nunu
I didn't say he was - he's meant to be an off tank/tanky AP imo.

@XZ
You don't need to use your skills to jungle, but it certainly speeds it up a GREAT deal! You make a completely valid point, but I'd personally say that both were as viable as each other, if not TTS was better when it comes to Xin in the JUNGLE, in the lane I'd say E was better.
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Raii | May 27, 2011 8:19am
@Nunu
Dangerous CC makes people focus tanks. People think "I don't want that Rammus taunting me!" then stun them, or whatever. Nunu has none, but he does have a decent peel with his E, I'll give him that.
- He is no tank with your build, he's just a bad ap carry.

@Xin
I'd say they were roughly both as viable as each other, your E will be roughly 150 damage when you take into account resistances, which is roughly two hits of your Q. However, when it comes to jungling, Q gives you a MUCH faster jungle, less reliance on mana and blue buff so you can give it to your carries, and even more from your life steal if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of it.
- When you have lantern you don't need to use skills to jungle, having a smaller CD on the skill that not only allows you to catch up enemy champions, but also slows them, is better than having the same cd on the skill that allows you to stun them.
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Xenasis (164) | May 27, 2011 7:32am
@Nunu
Dangerous CC makes people focus tanks. People think "I don't want that Rammus taunting me!" then stun them, or whatever. Nunu has none, but he does have a decent peel with his E, I'll give him that.

@Shaco
I'll give it a try, but the only guide I've seen here have been showing W maxed last, and since I'm no super high Elo player myself and not the best Shaco player in the world I had to take their word for it, but I'll definitely give it a try.

@Xin
I'd say they were roughly both as viable as each other, your E will be roughly 150 damage when you take into account resistances, which is roughly two hits of your Q. However, when it comes to jungling, Q gives you a MUCH faster jungle, less reliance on mana and blue buff so you can give it to your carries, and even more from your life steal if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of it.

@Amumu
I know, Banshee's is an absolute beast of an item, I have it in 7/10 of the builds I have here! To be honest I think I'll add it, after a bit of research I see quite a lot of Amumus rushing it (like Alibaba from LLL).
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Raii | May 27, 2011 5:04am
@Nunu
Without any CC he isn't a tank. Surely I thought you'd know this? I know he's not there to do damage - but having a little bit of AP makes him worth killing. It's like a Mundo with full tank items, there's absolutely no reason to attack him, but he has a slow and a little damage. Off tank Mundo is a MUCH better choice.
- What makes you want to focus a shen, a rammus? Do you think this nunu build will deal as much ap as a malz or a tf? You don't focus tanks because they deal damage, you focus them when you can't focus carries because of good placement. If the goal was to focus people who deal damage, everyone would just blindly jump into carries and end up failing.

@Shaco
That's at level 3, with rank 1 of boxes (I'd assume), it can only be rank 2 at least - there's no need to max it if all you're doing is trying to box stack and kill unsuspecting junglers. The same trick doesn't work more than once - and in my opinion it's not worthy of getting to rank 5 because of that sole reason - however box stacking for first blood is definitely a notable cause to take at least rank two.
I take the things I do until rank 3 because that gives you the best possible ganks at level 3 and the fastest jungle. At level 3 you can hop into mid and gank there if you so desire, with a small slow and some extra damage to back him up.
Since I level E first, there's not really that much reasoning in levelling JitB at level 8 +, I mean, it's really not that big of a deal then, and Shaco relies on his ganks to be useful late game, which is why I maxed E first.
Edit: I will take W second in my next game as Shaco and see how I fare, but to be honest I don't see it being all too great.
- You should check some of reginald's shaco videos on youtube or on own3d.tv, it requires more skill, map awareness and game understanding to make a bigger use of W than of Q, but Qs potential is incredibly small (or inexistant), compared to W's potential which can be EXTREMELY useful.

@Xin
It is AoE and does give an AoE slow, I'll give you that, but in team fights, a 40% slow isn't really the bee's knees, and you'd be lucky to find people all grouped together (it has a VERY small range), and diving into them usually isn't the best course of action.
The CD of Q is 10s and E 16/15/14/13/12 according to this site.
- I forgot to say, but are you sure you'll land the 3 hits on the same champion? E also gives mobility, and it's damage in one second, unlike Q which takes away your movement freedom to land full combo. Also, if you count the time you take to do the 3 hits of Q, the CDs are almost the same when E is maxed, this is another reason to max E rather than Q, whose cooldown doesn't change according to this site. How much extra damage do you get between level 1-5 Q? How much between 1-5 E? (I'm saying this completely randomly).
I also thought Q was better to level up when I was level 10 asking tips to a 1700 elo, I had never even really thought why would E be better until this conversation, so this also brought me something. ^^

@Amumu
As I clearly stated - I couldn't take anything that wasn't Vet's Scars, those were the last points I put in and taking Improved Flash would mean no Vets Scars at all or only one or two points in it.
I know that blue belongs to AP carries 90% of the time, today I gave every one of my blues as Nocturne to an Anivia on our team (and still ended up 10/1). However, BV only gives 375 Mana, sure it's a bit, but it's hardly something that would sustain a jungle or whatever for ever. If you were so bothered about the mana part of BV (which shouldn't be the reason you buy it), wouldn't a Chalice be a better choice?
- Well, my mana example was bad. BV is probably the best tank item with sunfire cloak. Imagine you're amumu, you manage to land a PERFECT Q, but soraka silences you and people can get out of your ulti range, making you unable to land a nice ulti, BV would have made that situation completely different. BV not only gives magic resistance, but it also gives hp, ap AND a shield that blocks a spell! Why do you think it got nerfed like 2-3 patches ago, it's just a too OP item.
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Xenasis (164) | May 26, 2011 3:10pm
Temzilla wrote:



I'll have to disagree with this one.

Nunu has a Q, which restores his health very reliably for tanking turret hits. A W which can buff the AtS and Move speed of your Carries, and a E which slows heavily, and does a bit of damage to the enemy.

Nunu FAR outshines mundo in the laning phase, and in the team fight phase, he is much better because of his R, even if Nunu get's stunned or whatever and the ult doesn't go off, the enemy team has already wasted a CC on Nunu and your carries have had time to get a champion to atleast half health.

I feel that Mundo might be better overall as an off tank yes, but Tanky AP nunu is far better than mundo can hope to be.


Exactly why I picked tanky AP Nunu instead of something else! Nunu with full tank items is - in my opinion, worthless. He isn't a tank and you shouldn't pretend he is.

Nunu with full tank items isn't that great to be honest - at least, in my opinion.

Tanking turret hits doesn't make you a tank, or, as much as I hate to go back to him, Mundo would be the best tank in the game. His Q isn't really very reliable either, there needs to be a minion there.
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Temzilla (211) | May 26, 2011 3:06pm
Xenasis wrote:
@Nunu
Without any CC he isn't a tank. Surely I thought you'd know this? I know he's not there to do damage - but having a little bit of AP makes him worth killing. It's like a Mundo with full tank items, there's absolutely no reason to attack him, but he has a slow and a little damage. Off tank Mundo is a MUCH better choice.


I'll have to disagree with this one.

Nunu has a Q, which restores his health very reliably for tanking turret hits. A W which can buff the AtS and Move speed of your Carries, and a E which slows heavily, and does a bit of damage to the enemy.

Nunu FAR outshines mundo in the laning phase, and in the team fight phase, he is much better because of his R, even if Nunu get's stunned or whatever and the ult doesn't go off, the enemy team has already wasted a CC on Nunu and your carries have had time to get a champion to atleast half health.

I feel that Mundo might be better overall as an off tank yes, but Tanky AP nunu is far better than mundo can hope to be.
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Xenasis (164) | May 26, 2011 2:51pm
@Nunu
Without any CC he isn't a tank. Surely I thought you'd know this? I know he's not there to do damage - but having a little bit of AP makes him worth killing. It's like a Mundo with full tank items, there's absolutely no reason to attack him, but he has a slow and a little damage. Off tank Mundo is a MUCH better choice.

@Shaco
That's at level 3, with rank 1 of boxes (I'd assume), it can only be rank 2 at least - there's no need to max it if all you're doing is trying to box stack and kill unsuspecting junglers. The same trick doesn't work more than once - and in my opinion it's not worthy of getting to rank 5 because of that sole reason - however box stacking for first blood is definitely a notable cause to take at least rank two.
I take the things I do until rank 3 because that gives you the best possible ganks at level 3 and the fastest jungle. At level 3 you can hop into mid and gank there if you so desire, with a small slow and some extra damage to back him up.
Since I level E first, there's not really that much reasoning in levelling JitB at level 8 +, I mean, it's really not that big of a deal then, and Shaco relies on his ganks to be useful late game, which is why I maxed E first.

Edit: I will take W second in my next game as Shaco and see how I fare, but to be honest I don't see it being all too great.

@Xin
It is AoE and does give an AoE slow, I'll give you that, but in team fights, a 40% slow isn't really the bee's knees, and you'd be lucky to find people all grouped together (it has a VERY small range), and diving into them usually isn't the best course of action.
The CD of Q is 10s and E 16/15/14/13/12 according to this site.

@Amumu
As I clearly stated - I couldn't take anything that wasn't Vet's Scars, those were the last points I put in and taking Improved Flash would mean no Vets Scars at all or only one or two points in it.
I know that blue belongs to AP carries 90% of the time, today I gave every one of my blues as Nocturne to an Anivia on our team (and still ended up 10/1). However, BV only gives 375 Mana, sure it's a bit, but it's hardly something that would sustain a jungle or whatever for ever. If you were so bothered about the mana part of BV (which shouldn't be the reason you buy it), wouldn't a Chalice be a better choice?
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Raii | May 26, 2011 2:30pm
@Nunu
If Nunu had no damage he'd easily be ignorable. The extra point in Q gives more damage for stealing buffs, and much more health for survivability. Nunu isn't a tank. If he had no damage then all he would do is a R you could easily just stun or ignore because it has so low damage, and a 60% Slow... It's not a AP Nunu, there's just a small amount of AP in there to give him some worth.
You don't understand nunu, he's not there to do damage, he's there to tank and to help carries to get kills.

@Shaco
Why exactly is W better for counter jungling?
It has a small fear, sure (after a delayed 2s if they're still in the same place), but it has not much damage and the same CD on every rank. I'm confused as to what the importance of levelling it is...

No offense, but you're a less experienced and less knowledgeful player than I thought (trying to not use mean words). At level 3, you go in enemy jungle, you put 3 boxes, and get FB. You've never seen reginald's videos? Before teamfights you put some boxes in good places, they'll lose lots of HP before the fight.

@Xin
"Maxed E gives 230 Damage, Maxed Q gives 75 damage each hit for three hits, equalling to 225, taking into account resistances, cooldowns and the fact we don't have MPen except the mastery but we have ArP runes, Q is a much better choice. Especially considering that it also greatly increases your jungling times."
E is AOE, and E gives an AOE slow. Doesn't E also have a smaller cd?

@Amumu
"I don't see why he needs mana if he'll have blue buff, and he has a FoN for magic resist. I can't take any points out of anything that isn't Vet's Scars - so getting improved Flash is out of the question."
You can remove those points on minion defense or w/e. In high elo games, when jungler is decent, he only takes blue buff once (in competitive lol he sometimes doesn't even take it), it belongs to ap carry for the rest of the game. Again, you're showing a great lack of knowledge and skills by that answer.

@Olaf
"Mallet gives him bonus health for his W, health for general bulk, a slow (since he doesn't have any reliable CC, since his Q isn't really that reliable and can break Banshee's Veils) and a little bit of damage. He also gets Banshee's and the armour from Atma's not long after - he's then really tanky with lots of health to scale his W off.
Well it's probably a decent build, but I'd still like to add sunfire cloak and maybe even omen to it. They are both more useful than mallet.
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Xenasis (164) | May 26, 2011 2:02pm

Please write more about the only characters.what you did is the easyest.


Do you mean write more about the champions?

This isn't supposed to be a guide for champions individually, it's just some starter builds to get people started into jungling.

It's supposed to be a guide about jungling in general, which helps all of the jungling champions listed!
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Xenasis (164) | May 26, 2011 1:53pm
@Nunu
If Nunu had no damage he'd easily be ignorable. The extra point in Q gives more damage for stealing buffs, and much more health for survivability. Nunu isn't a tank. If he had no damage then all he would do is a R you could easily just stun or ignore because it has so low damage, and a 60% Slow... It's not a AP Nunu, there's just a small amount of AP in there to give him some worth.

@Rammus
I'll either put a BV where FoN was and put FoN after Randuin's or put it at the end, not decided yet.

@Shaco
Why exactly is W better for counter jungling?
It has a small fear, sure (after a delayed 2s if they're still in the same place), but it has not much damage and the same CD on every rank. I'm confused as to what the importance of levelling it is...

@Xin
Maxed E gives 230 Damage, Maxed Q gives 75 damage each hit for three hits, equalling to 225, taking into account resistances, cooldowns and the fact we don't have MPen except the mastery but we have ArP runes, Q is a much better choice. Especially considering that it also greatly increases your jungling times.

@Amumu
I don't see why he needs mana if he'll have blue buff, and he has a FoN for magic resist. I can't take any points out of anything that isn't Vet's Scars - so getting improved Flash is out of the question.

@Olaf
Mallet gives him bonus health for his W, health for general bulk, a slow (since he doesn't have any reliable CC, since his Q isn't really that reliable and can break Banshee's Veils) and a little bit of damage. He also gets Banshee's and the armour from Atma's not long after - he's then really tanky with lots of health to scale his W off.
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Beyond warrior (5) | May 26, 2011 1:49pm
Please write more about the only characters.what you did is the easyest.
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Raii | May 26, 2011 1:26pm
@Nunu
Ah, yes, will change the mastery
My skill order is QWQ, getting W before Q is pants on head ******ed imo and doesn't allow for any serious counter jungling at all. Q is the way to go for jungling.
AP isn't bad on Nunu, and it's hardly like I have a lot of it. I have a Deathcap and a RoA (which has health and that too)...
Q is the most useless spells in teamfights, even against annie's tibbers or malz passive, you can't compare it to giving ATTACK SPEED AND SPEED to your carry and to yourself, it's just amazingly useful. level 1 Q is much more than enough, ahving level 2 E instead is way more useful to gank, for everything. Nunu AP is played when you have a tank in the team or when you're trolling.

@Rammus
I didn't get a BV because I felt a BV isn't as good as say, a FoN for taking repeated hits of magical damage as a tank should.
BV gives you way more tankyness and is way more useful than FoN with the HP you had. Get FoN after BV maybe.

@Shaco
I got Q before W because Q allows for MUCH better ganks, and W really isn't the best damage in the world - and the CD stays the same throughout the ranks so it doesn't change it's map control. I was originally going to put Mercs, which I'll change my boots to now, no idea why I had Mobility boots.
You don't skill W for damage, you were talking about counter jungling, W is best skill for shaco to counter jungle, also, setting up some boxes for teamfights can give you a great advantage, the only use of Q is for mobility.

@Xin
I built two defensive items right after his Phantom Dancer, which really isn't that far into his build...
I don't see why W should be > Q because 20% AS <<<<<<<<<<< 60 AD, last time I checked
E isn't maxed first here because since you're a jungler, you will have red buff the majority of the time anyway, so your E slow is really negligible.
E isnt maxed for the slow, it's just that Q doesn't bring anything but a jump, skilling it isnt worth it, E gives way more damage and is way more useful in teamfights, etc.

@Fiddles
Pre-nerf I'd agree his E should be maxed earlier, but not now, it's 5 bounces at each rank. A 3s fear > a small increase in his worst damage ability imo. I'll slap a Zhonya's into his build somewhere :D
Well I don't really know fiddle well, played him three times in normals, didn't even read his skills.

@Amumu
I built Amumu to be used in heavy AoE teams, hence the Randuins and Aegis, as a tank there shouldn't really be any staple items. I don't think it would be worth it removing the Vet Scars JUST for Flash, it's only 15s.
Still, amumu needs BV for mana and magic resistance and all, you don't remove vet scars but the other things, the 15 secs can change a game. Sunfire cloak is always a great item.

@Olaf
There's an early Frozen Mallet and Banshee's Veil, I don't see how that DOESN'T have early survivability...
Not so sure about the Q change but I'll consider it.
I don't think olaf needs frozen mallet, he needs tankier stuff imo.
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Xenasis (164) | May 26, 2011 12:12pm
For all of the builds you stated as "incomplete", I merely left it like that because of the situational items - I mean, tank items aren't built the same every single time.

@Udyr
I've never been a big Udyr player myself but I'll change that, definitely.

@Nunu
Ah, yes, will change the mastery
My skill order is QWQ, getting W before Q is pants on head ******ed imo and doesn't allow for any serious counter jungling at all. Q is the way to go for jungling.
AP isn't bad on Nunu, and it's hardly like I have a lot of it. I have a Deathcap and a RoA (which has health and that too)...

@Rammus
I didn't get a BV because I felt a BV isn't as good as say, a FoN for taking repeated hits of magical damage as a tank should.

@Shaco
I got Q before W because Q allows for MUCH better ganks, and W really isn't the best damage in the world - and the CD stays the same throughout the ranks so it doesn't change it's map control. I was originally going to put Mercs, which I'll change my boots to now, no idea why I had Mobility boots.

@WW
I feel Flash is amazing on him for either.
I forgot to change Lethality, I just slapped down the standard 21/0/9 build forgetting :/

@Xin
I built two defensive items right after his Phantom Dancer, which really isn't that far into his build...
I don't see why W should be > Q because 20% AS <<<<<<<<<<< 60 AD, last time I checked
E isn't maxed first here because since you're a jungler, you will have red buff the majority of the time anyway, so your E slow is really negligible.

@Fiddles
Pre-nerf I'd agree his E should be maxed earlier, but not now, it's 5 bounces at each rank. A 3s fear > a small increase in his worst damage ability imo. I'll slap a Zhonya's into his build somewhere :D

@Amumu
I built Amumu to be used in heavy AoE teams, hence the Randuins and Aegis, as a tank there shouldn't really be any staple items. I don't think it would be worth it removing the Vet Scars JUST for Flash, it's only 15s.

@Olaf
There's an early Frozen Mallet and Banshee's Veil, I don't see how that DOESN'T have early survivability...
Not so sure about the Q change but I'll consider it.

@Trynd
Lantern allows for earlier dragons and a lot more pressure on the enemy jungle, I think it's indispensable. Imo LW should ALWAYS be bought before BT on Trynd, he gets no ArP from runes due to crit runes being much better for him, especially early game. Cleanse is essential so that he's not stunlocked when his Ult is up :/
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Raii | May 26, 2011 11:48am
Your builds..
I'm too lazy to check runes, so I'll talk about items, skills and masteries, you already had my thoughts about summoners.

Well your udyr guide is incomplete, rushing trinity force is a bad idea, udyr needs tankiness early game, he has enough damage with Q. Then, skilling E before W is also a joke.
21-0-9 on udyr? Udyr needs defensive masteries... no heart of gold no philo stone, which are great as first items. I forgot to add: Udyr's passive gives dodge, this is why getting 9 points in defense is great.

Nunu also incomplete, but AP Nunu? Are you making a troll guide? Nunu should be a tank, BV, sunfire cloak, etc. no heart of gold no philo stone, which are great as first items. Nunu doesn't need level 2 Q, level 1 is far more than enough. Skilling Q before W? This is worse than I thought. Also, you didn't change the flash/ghost mastery

Rammus. Like on nunu, you don't need level 2 W (although, I'm not sure if it speeds you up really a lot after nerf, so maybe), skill build isn't had otherwise. No BV on item build? Same thing for flash/ghost mastery, and also, you should maybe remove a point somwhere in def and get the gold/10s mastery.

Shaco: For the items, it's fine, but needs that new dagger & cloak item for tenacity. Masteries are fine. Why going Q before W? Last skill you need to max is Q. Some people even like to get some W at the same time or even before getting E (but maxing E is fine) You can also go exhaust/smite (or ignite/smite, but exhaust is best)

WW needs ghost if you go 21-0-9 imo, flash if you go 9-0-21, both builds work well. Lethality isn't needed, get more aspeed/dmg on minions instead. For the build, I prefer leaving madred as madred until one of my last items, boots are situational (merc or sorc for most of people, but for me its swiftness or merc), needs sunfire cloak and a heart of gold early.

Xin: Lazy to go in detail, but correct skill build is REWQ, and your build is too paper, needs more armor, less damage.

Fiddle: Lazy to go in detail, in my opinion E shouldn't be skilled so late, maybe you can leave W at 2-3 and skill Q with E. NO ZHONYA ON FIDDLE? It's best item for him, he needs it to ulti being immortal. Again flash/ghost mastery.

Amumu: Skill build is perfect for once, in masteries you should get the point on flash imo, maybe even go 1-8-21. No banshee's veil no sunfire cloak??

Olaf: Like for xin, lacks survivability, and skill build is incorrect, W is his most useless spell, Q is even maybe better to get than E, gives so ****ing crazy damage with no cd if you have blue!

Are you sure you need lantern on trynda? skill build is decent, maybe get BT before LW. And I'd prefer to go ghost or exhaust rather than cleanse, but this is also situational.


If you have any questions or want more specific builds, feel free to ask.
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Xenasis (164) | May 26, 2011 7:32am
Of course I will!

Send me a message through the messages section of this website, it's pretty easy to communicate through there :)
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Raii | May 26, 2011 6:34am
"About Flash on WW/Amumu -
WW can Flash then R, and have a surprise gank/initiation.
Amumu can Flash then R if he misses his Bandage Toss and it's completely necessary to initiate, OR if he Bandage tosses to the closest, flashes into the middle THEN goes R."
It's exactly what I said, on those champs both (ghost and flash) work but I don't understand why to get ghost instead of flash on rammus and nunu!

"I don't see what's wrong with the builds, Cloth Armour + 5x health pots is pretty standard stuff, and the skills are fine. The only questionable one imo is Udyr, which I only recommended to go Tiger because this is aimed at lower level/elo players, and Tiger's the easiest to do and needs the least runes or whatever, but it's by no means the best, Phoenix is better by far imo.
Don't see what's wrong with the masteries either..."
Do you have somewhere I can contact you else than this forum (IM)? I'll give you a few suggestions, but too lazy to do it in a post.

EDIT: I forgot to say it, but I'm glad you liked my suggestions. If I could have a word of credit, it would be nice (but you aren't forced to do it, since I didn't contribute much to your guide, although if I help you with builds I guess I'd deserve that. ^^
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Xenasis (164) | May 26, 2011 6:20am
Raii wrote:

I was so positively surprised by this guide, you say lots of nice stuff, it was ALMOST perfect... until I saw the builds you suggest, how can you suggest so bad builds... many mistakes in skills, masteries, items, everywhere. :(
I don't even understand where is the logic of taking flash on amumu and ww (two champs which can use flash and ghost quite well), but getting ghost on nunu and on rammus, who really don't get anything out of it...
But as I said before, good job, I'd suggest you to add two things:
1. Maybe that even you don't know this, but pushing on bot/top lane can make the best ganks, jungler enters by brushes on the side of the lane (since lane is pushed enemy team doesn't have vision), your team baits, and jungler can't do a better gank, since it's like if you were in the lane!
2. Try to explain better this following point: junglers are there to help lanes, when a jungler ganks (successfully or not), there's nothing that I hate more (as a 2k elo EU player), than a jungler who stays in my lane and touches to my minions. First of all they steal my exp, then they take my minions (or **** up my lasthits if they're really bad). Another thing is when junglers are like: help me to do blue please, give a few hits. Pulling is fine 99% of the time since you don't lose exp/minions if you aren't unlucky, but when you lose exp for your jungler it becomes bad, and it even becomes worse when you ask a support to help you for too long when the carry (talking about EU meta) wasn't prepared for it. It happened to me on a game lately, udyr jungler kept janna for him for like first 7 mins of game, I couldn't farm anything, when I tried to farm I lost 80% of my hp, then it started snowballing. I have no problem in laning 2v1 when I'm psychologically prepared in advance and when I get an idea of when my support is coming back.


Good points, I'll make sure to add something about those!

About Flash on WW/Amumu -
WW can Flash then R, and have a surprise gank/initiation.
Amumu can Flash then R if he misses his Bandage Toss and it's completely necessary to initiate, OR if he Bandage tosses to the closest, flashes into the middle THEN goes R.

I don't see what's wrong with the builds, Cloth Armour + 5x health pots is pretty standard stuff, and the skills are fine. The only questionable one imo is Udyr, which I only recommended to go Tiger because this is aimed at lower level/elo players, and Tiger's the easiest to do and needs the least runes or whatever, but it's by no means the best, Phoenix is better by far imo.
Don't see what's wrong with the masteries either...

I'll change the Ghost on Rammus and Nunu to Flash right away, no idea why they weren't flash...

Oh, and some of the item builds might be questionable because I don't play every champion ever, but those builds WILL WORK at least kind of well. I tried to make them as best as I could but hey, I'm no god with every champion! As I stated at the start, these are basic builds, not in-depth explanations for each item.
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Raii | May 26, 2011 5:33am
I was so positively surprised by this guide, you say lots of nice stuff, it was ALMOST perfect... until I saw the builds you suggest, how can you suggest so bad builds... many mistakes in skills, masteries, items, everywhere. :(
I don't even understand where is the logic of taking flash on amumu and ww (two champs which can use flash and ghost quite well), but getting ghost on nunu and on rammus, who really don't get anything out of it...
But as I said before, good job, I'd suggest you to add two things:
1. Maybe that even you don't know this, but pushing on bot/top lane can make the best ganks, jungler enters by brushes on the side of the lane (since lane is pushed enemy team doesn't have vision), your team baits, and jungler can't do a better gank, since it's like if you were in the lane!
2. Try to explain better this following point: junglers are there to help lanes, when a jungler ganks (successfully or not), there's nothing that I hate more (as a 2k elo EU player), than a jungler who stays in my lane and touches to my minions. First of all they steal my exp, then they take my minions (or **** up my lasthits if they're really bad). Another thing is when junglers are like: help me to do blue please, give a few hits. Pulling is fine 99% of the time since you don't lose exp/minions if you aren't unlucky, but when you lose exp for your jungler it becomes bad, and it even becomes worse when you ask a support to help you for too long when the carry (talking about EU meta) wasn't prepared for it. It happened to me on a game lately, udyr jungler kept janna for him for like first 7 mins of game, I couldn't farm anything, when I tried to farm I lost 80% of my hp, then it started snowballing. I have no problem in laning 2v1 when I'm psychologically prepared in advance and when I get an idea of when my support is coming back.
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HunTa23 (2) | May 25, 2011 10:59pm
I Love this guide, i couldn't jungle at all and with help of this guide im doing pretty well :D. thx
1
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Ollieman (2) | May 25, 2011 10:32pm
Thanks ,
Yeah im lvl 25 , yet i can jungle with amumu , bit timing and such but ill take a look at WW he sounds interesting :)
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Xenasis (164) | May 25, 2011 1:50pm
Glad you like it!

I'd recommend Warwick considering you aren't level 30 yet (as far as your profile tells me anyway) since he's super sustainable in the most intensive of routes!

Yeah, I'd recommend to always refer to other guides of champions that you find the builds of on this guide, this isn't supposed to be a one stop shop for an in depth guide for every jungler ever, and I don't claim to know that much!
However, I would recommend maybe altering a route or something if you don't think you can handle it if you're not 30 or something!

Anyway, happy jungling!
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Ollieman (2) | May 25, 2011 12:55pm
Yeah Xenasis you are right , though i lvl myself to 6 with Amumu in No - Time and still be able to gank with my bandage toss , counter jungles are weirdo with amumu but if you actually play him smart with his ulti on the opponent and when hes ****** ( like walking away and thinking NO i can pwn him shortly said : doubting ) hes dead , just bait him and his dead .
I luvv your build for amumu but my current guide is Wrapping up the jungle because im a newb in jungling , gonna try out another champion with your guide ( WW or smthing )
I wanna give you +1 btw !
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Xenasis (164) | May 25, 2011 12:34pm
Ollieman wrote:

Amumu suppose to be in the God Tier also , hes great!


He's a great jungler, but imo not worthy of God Tier, his counter jungling isn't all that great, and his ganks pre-6 are somewhat unreliable.

He doesn't stick out with super duper fast speeds or anything else either.

However, I'd personally rate him as the best in the jungle out of all the tanks :)
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Ollieman (2) | May 25, 2011 11:38am
Amumu suppose to be in the God Tier also , hes great!

Nice guide anways...
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Hawteyh | May 25, 2011 2:57am
Amazing guide, read most of it, and it definately helped me :)
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Xenasis (164) | May 23, 2011 4:05am
Rapidfap wrote:

no, no, no, no, and NO!! that is the worst list of junglers i have EVER seen. PLEASE dont put someone like vayne up here saying she is "worth noting" because some baddie is gonna come along and actually try it.


She's better than having no jungler, and I said she was worth noting because she is at this moment in time the only ranged DPS that can jungle.

She has pretty decent ganks, however her sub par speed and terrible survivability are regrettably an issue.

I stand by the fact that having a Vayne Jungler is better than having no jungler though.



@People who like Xin
Thanks, I play Xin quite a bit and he's one of my favourite junglers, so I got the build with him better than some of the others I might've made one or two mistakes on :)
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Rapidfap | May 22, 2011 7:51pm
no, no, no, no, and NO!! that is the worst list of junglers i have EVER seen. PLEASE dont put someone like vayne up here saying she is "worth noting" because some baddie is gonna come along and actually try it.

Also, sustained routes are not good to start off with and should really only be used if you were heavily counter jungled at the start (a.k.a lvl 1 ganked/ stolen blue buff)

Other than those HUGE parts the rest are decent. Sorry but i dont think this guide deserves this high rating with all of the flaws and issues it has in it so i have to downvote

EDIT:
I cant figure out how to downvote so you got off the hook with me.. :/
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aTastyNoodle | May 22, 2011 6:05pm
got a pentakill with the xin zhao build!
thanks dude!
*upvote*
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0bnoxious | May 22, 2011 4:50pm
Thanks for the guide! Here's a pic of my day with Xin Zhao jungle!
http://i52.tinypic.com/olked.jpg
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MTaur (19) | May 22, 2011 1:02pm
Wish I'd read this sooner. +1.
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Vraal | May 22, 2011 12:39pm
pretty nice guide on jungling. Very good for ppl that are starting to learn how to jungle. a few things here are there I don't totally agree with but overall this is a very good guide
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Kreeft | May 22, 2011 12:00pm
Nice guide very detailed
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Xenasis (164) | May 22, 2011 5:42am
Latency wrote:

I really don't see how Xin Zhao can jungle using your route >< , I die at the wraiths.
Can you show a video of it ?


Do you have the correct runes?
Do you smite the first small golem?
Did you use the same item, Vamp Sceptre?
Did you go Q > W
Did you kill the big wraith first?
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Latency | May 22, 2011 4:56am
I really don't see how Xin Zhao can jungle using your route >< , I die at the wraiths.
Can you show a video of it ?
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Sleelan | May 22, 2011 1:35am
I still disagree. I had 1 hp pot left, which means I had 470 evective health. That's enough for gank if needed, but I usually recall, grab boots and 2 hp pots, grab red, then gank with lev 4 and Unspeakable Terror, red buff and ghost. If enemy is weakened it is not a problem. And wraith route is imho waste of time for 1 specific reason: you have to back and forth. This delay is pointless, as you need to recall after golems anyway.
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Angr | May 21, 2011 5:34pm
Nice write up.

A small aspect of pulling blue early is that if you wait just on the corner, you can usually get all 3 neutrals and yourself in the grass, thus being invisible to anyone trying to come at you from the river and if your mid is half way decent he'd have spotted anyone coming around the back. Just stand just around the end of the wall. It takes a little practise to get right and sometimes the neuts just do random stuff which ****s it up.
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Lord Vampire (1) | May 21, 2011 3:43pm
thx a lot for taking the time to write this great guide.
It'll help for sure.
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Xenasis (164) | May 21, 2011 2:48pm
Nice, however I'd still recommend the Wraith route for Nocturne, compare how much health you have there to how much I had on Xin in my screenshots!
Not to mention the fact that the Wraith Route is more sustainable for junglers that finish with low health and Nocturne really NEEDS level 6 for his amazing ganking prowess!

I'll be sure to add it though, thanks! :)
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Sleelan | May 21, 2011 1:39pm
Well too late sir. I didn't render that **** for 40 mins in vain. You don't have to put this in guide, it is proof of Nocturne jungling awesomness.

EDIT:
There, for grace, you go.
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Xenasis (164) | May 21, 2011 1:29pm
I would do it if I wanted to, to be honest, pictures are just a lot easier to see and I can give a more in-depth explanation of what to do and why to do it and am not limited by time!
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Sleelan | May 21, 2011 12:48pm
If you wish I can record a vid with that route. It isn't very time consuming.
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Xenasis (164) | May 21, 2011 10:45am
Think I'll give that a try!

The Wraith Route isn't a "slow route" in most cases, contrary to popular belief, and really helps junglers that would otherwise have extremely low health and be extremely easy to successfully counter jungle at low levels.
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Sleelan | May 21, 2011 8:56am
Cloth Armor + 5 x Health Potion. Also, as first skill I take Shroud of Darkness, as more attack speed makes him heal faster from Umbra Blades. I usually am 1 lvl lower than solo laners with that, which is huge advantage over wraith path.
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Xenasis (164) | May 21, 2011 4:53am
@Sleelan
Most Fiddlesticks players do Golems to Golem route now, due to his huge jungling nerf, it's usually the safest and best route. They usually use Mana Crystal + 1 of each pot, I'll update my build to reflect that. Fiddles is so much worse in the jungle after his nerf... he's essentially stuck with one route. It's so easy to counter jungle him it's not even funny...
Also, what starting items did you buy? I'll have to try that out and see if it is any better than his usual Wraith start.

@xxCactuar
Irelia is a really iffy one.
To gank really well, she has to put HERSELF at risk to get a good E off. She is good at ganks and in the top half if I was to stack them up, but those few were meant to be the "cream of the crop", per se, the best of the best, which Irelia really isn't - unfortunately. After she uses her Q to dash to someone, she then cannot use a stun, and only a slow, if they're both at full health, for example.
However, thanks for the feedback and actually making me consider her a little more :)
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xxCactuar | May 20, 2011 3:39pm
One little complaint, if I may.
I'd really recommend adding Irelia to the section for people good at ganking. Even without a red buff, she can dash out of the jungle with Q at low health and then stun with E. That's pretty much a guaranteed kill especially if the laners help you.

Other than that, excellent guide and I think this will really help new players wanting to try jungling.
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Lalyth | May 20, 2011 9:52am
Very useful
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Silsyn00 | May 20, 2011 2:10am
I played against a team with a jungling veigar and a counter jungling Nunu... they were epic...
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Sleelan | May 19, 2011 9:07pm
Xenasis wrote:



Indeed you can!

However, some junglers greatly benefit from the Blue Golem route, that or it's a necessity, due to high mana costs/much faster jungle with it.

For example, Phoenix based Udyr and Karthus should almost always start at blue!

A lot of the time, it's a faster jungle to do the Golems to Golem route, but for some junglers it's faster the other way, each is different, which really spices it up a bit! If there was one definitive route I'd only have done one!


I'm an idiot, please forgive me. I wanted to mention, that with armor seals and cloth you can take golems to golem route as Nocturne, not in general. Of course blue is better on Karthus/ Fiddlesticks/ Amumu. Sorry for overall fail.
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Xenasis (164) | May 19, 2011 3:47pm
@Molyneux
I think Yi is one of the better junglers at the moment, nothing Nunu-standard, but I'd say he's at least in the top half if I was to stack them up! He has a fast clear and amazing ganks, I think the only thing he lacks in the jungle is some sort of decent counter jungling.
Also, your sig is huge :/


@alkarthefeared
Any time! I'd hate to be a plagiarist, and you deserve the credit!
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alkarthefeared (1) | May 19, 2011 2:16pm
Oh wow, thank you sir for mentioning me in your updates. :)
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Molyneux | May 19, 2011 12:31pm
good guide. i do enjoy jungling as yi, but most groups seem to think him worthless at it, even when he has an increased damage to minions and monsters with his q and a base increase to AD. i really just didnt know how to route him. thanks
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Xenasis (164) | May 19, 2011 8:38am
Nighthawk wrote:

40 * 8 = 320. Full stacks and you heal 320 health @ level 1. With some crit runes (which you probably get on Tryn anyways) you heal often enough that lifesteal is worthless. You need massive amounts of lifesteal to have it worth anything...so I suppose would you rather have the 192 health from two golems or full health from the golems?

As for what a tome builds into, you could build into Triforce if your not going AP/Hyrbid, or into pretty much anything else if your going AP. Which I might add is a lot quicker jungling, as your SS hits for more.


Tryndamere's Q -
10/stack
Ratio = 1.5
It doesn't increase per stack, a common misconception, it just adds to your stacks. Try it.
With 8 stacks, you heal 110 with 20 AP. I'd rather have 192 health over 110 health.

I'm not even sure if you're serious when you say AP is "faster jungling"...
Trynd hits insane speeds when he gets going a bit, with AP you kind of, nullify this. 20 extra damage every 6 seconds < 10 more damage every second (not including crits) - and that's just from a Longsword vs Amp. Tome, when a Longsword costs less anyway.

@CloudCloud
I did! Under the first section of the advantages of Smite!

@seremking
I'll send you a few messages!
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Nighthawk (677) | May 19, 2011 7:11am
Xenasis wrote:



Huh? Why?

Could you at least state why you disliked the guide rather than just saying it's bad? Constructive criticism is the best kind. Writing "OMFG BAD GUIDE" isn't going to get this anywhere, as it would if I'd have gone onto one of your guides and done the same.



@Nighthawk
"Uh, actually it's a lot faster. Taking AP Tome improves your Bloodlust healing @ lvl 1 a lot and is better then Ca+5 or whatever it is your using. Personally i'd rather heal 200 in 1 second then 20, but I guess it's your choice."
I don't see how you're healing 200 when the AP Tome is +20 AP and BL has a 1.5 ratio, meaning you only get 30 extra every time...+
You will have to use obscure runes too, meaning the jungle will be much slower, and critting more = more health than you'd get with +20 AP... 30 health really isn't that much...

Oh, and since I use a Vampiric Scepter as Trynd, I get a LOT of health from just killing stuff, the two golems are 800 health each iirc, that's 192 health just from them which later builds into a Wriggle's. I fail to see what a Tome would build into that's worth using as Trynd.


40 * 8 = 320. Full stacks and you heal 320 health @ level 1. With some crit runes (which you probably get on Tryn anyways) you heal often enough that lifesteal is worthless. You need massive amounts of lifesteal to have it worth anything...so I suppose would you rather have the 192 health from two golems or full health from the golems?

As for what a tome builds into, you could build into Triforce if your not going AP/Hyrbid, or into pretty much anything else if your going AP. Which I might add is a lot quicker jungling, as your SS hits for more.
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seremking (1) | May 19, 2011 5:37am
+1
This is a awsome guide for jungling. i'm gonna start as amumu and will use ur guide. Do u may have some tips on only amumu for me, if u have can u text it to this acc on mobafire for me. Thx men ;)
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CloudCloud (2) | May 18, 2011 6:24pm
Great guide, but I would suggest mentioning that you can use smite to steal Baron if they don't have any. =)
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Xenasis (164) | May 18, 2011 3:50pm
Sleelan wrote:

The guide is really great, but just one small issue. With armor seals you can take "golems to golem" jungle path. I do so all the time and it proven to work awesome. I end up with around 300 hp after blue buff.


Indeed you can!

However, some junglers greatly benefit from the Blue Golem route, that or it's a necessity, due to high mana costs/much faster jungle with it.

For example, Phoenix based Udyr and Karthus should almost always start at blue!

A lot of the time, it's a faster jungle to do the Golems to Golem route, but for some junglers it's faster the other way, each is different, which really spices it up a bit! If there was one definitive route I'd only have done one!
1
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Xenasis (164) | May 18, 2011 2:24pm
Added a section on runes!
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Xenasis (164) | May 18, 2011 1:54pm

Great article! But why no section on runes?


That is a good point.

I will get to work on this!
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alkarthefeared (1) | May 18, 2011 1:50pm
Great article! But why no section on runes?
1
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Xenasis (164) | May 18, 2011 9:46am
Jet wrote:

apparently i voted on this piece of ****

i hope it was a downvote


Huh? Why?

Could you at least state why you disliked the guide rather than just saying it's bad? Constructive criticism is the best kind. Writing "OMFG BAD GUIDE" isn't going to get this anywhere, as it would if I'd have gone onto one of your guides and done the same.



@Nighthawk
"Uh, actually it's a lot faster. Taking AP Tome improves your Bloodlust healing @ lvl 1 a lot and is better then Ca+5 or whatever it is your using. Personally i'd rather heal 200 in 1 second then 20, but I guess it's your choice."
I don't see how you're healing 200 when the AP Tome is +20 AP and BL has a 1.5 ratio, meaning you only get 30 extra every time...
You will have to use obscure runes too, meaning the jungle will be much slower, and critting more = more health than you'd get with +20 AP... 30 health really isn't that much...

Oh, and since I use a Vampiric Scepter as Trynd, I get a LOT of health from just killing stuff, the two golems are 800 health each iirc, that's 192 health just from them which later builds into a Wriggle's. I fail to see what a Tome would build into that's worth using as Trynd.
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Xenasis (164) | May 18, 2011 9:43am
Xaioli wrote:

Quick question, how the **** is Taric a viable jungle? I understand it's for the 'surprise stuns', but you can achieve that by just roam Taric. You will serve your team so much more in lane/roaming than jungle.


He's only a little bit slower than Evelynn, with amazing survivability, he has half decent invasions and pretty awesome ganks. Oh, and he can solo dragon absurdly low level if he so desires!

Not going to lie, almost any jungler would be better than him, but Taric Jungler > No Jungler.

He's bad in the jungle, but a lot better than no jungler!
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Nighthawk (677) | May 18, 2011 5:19am
Uh, actually it's a lot faster. Taking AP Tome improves your Bloodlust healing @ lvl 1 a lot and is better then Ca+5 or whatever it is your using. Personally i'd rather heal 200 in 1 second then 20, but I guess it's your choice.
1
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Sleelan | May 18, 2011 12:58am
The guide is really great, but just one small issue. With armor seals you can take "golems to golem" jungle path. I do so all the time and it proven to work awesome. I end up with around 300 hp after blue buff.
1
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Xaioli (262) | May 18, 2011 12:08am
Quick question, how the **** is Taric a viable jungle? I understand it's for the 'surprise stuns', but you can achieve that by just roam Taric. You will serve your team so much more in lane/roaming than jungle.
1
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Jet (76) | May 17, 2011 10:08pm
apparently i voted on this piece of ****

i hope it was a downvote
1
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Xenasis (164) | May 17, 2011 3:04pm
bodanger wrote:

Great guide for those who are not yet expert junglers.

The only thing i saw that i didn't like is you mentioned "turtle based udyr" This really isn't an option, if you concentrate on turtle you slow down your jungle time to the point where you are taking more damage anyhow. The net result is that you jungle much much slower and barley save any hp to show for it.


Not so!

It's viable, but worse than the other three ways to build Udyr.

It's roughly the same sort of speed as Tiger, but with much better survivability and slightly worse ganks to be honest. With Turtle you can do more jungling, or more dangerous routes than you could otherwise do, which counteracts the time you lost in the speed you kill stuff.

It is viable, just not quite as much as Phoenix/Tiger/Mixed imo.

Might work for junglers who don't have runes/masteries or whatever and need a more sustainable character, or players who want to build a more tanky based Udyr as the end result.
1
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bodanger (5) | May 17, 2011 2:33pm
Great guide for those who are not yet expert junglers.

The only thing i saw that i didn't like is you mentioned "turtle based udyr" This really isn't an option, if you concentrate on turtle you slow down your jungle time to the point where you are taking more damage anyhow. The net result is that you jungle much much slower and barley save any hp to show for it.
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Xenasis (164) | May 17, 2011 9:01am
Nighthawk wrote:



That's what I meant by change the builds.

You can go ahead and change Tryn to hybrid though. :P

You can jungle with AP tome, I tried it.

Ah, good :D
He can, but it's a LOT more inefficient than as AD though I'd wager :)

@06322346327
Thanks! Glad it helped!
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Xenasis (164) | May 17, 2011 8:57am
Melarith wrote:

+1 to even it out then. Tried looking for something I could complain about, but no such luck (D:). Maybe change the title "Viable Junglers" to "Champions that can Jungle", or something like it, since viable implies that they are a viable pick for a jungler in ranked or otherwise competitive play.

Oh wait, I found one. Under the "Good Gankers" section, you mention Fiddlesticks, while he does excel at controlling his one target and dealing okay damage (massive if the enemy team is too stupid to ward up their brushes), he's also very easy to kill. More often than not do you get a free kill whenever a Fiddlesticks tries to gank you, especially if you have dominance in the lane (since there shouldn't really be any other way for Fiddle to gank you).


Actually all of those I listed are viable for ranked play, maybe not >2000 Elo, but if you don't have a jungler then I'd wager that one of those would be better than no jungler at all!

Fiddlesticks is an iffy one, if they do ward the brush you can teleport in through the wall that's near the tower up top, as you can with Shaco's Q - completely avoiding the ward!
Hm, that makes me think, I could include a section of where to gank from!
Usually if the teammate you have is half good and you have crowstorm up, it will be 2-0 on your side rather than the other way around but you make an excellent point.
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06322346327 | May 17, 2011 7:30am
thank you so much man !!!!!!!
1
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06322346327 | May 17, 2011 7:30am
JUngling time!
1
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Nighthawk (677) | May 17, 2011 7:29am
Xenasis wrote:

Switched out Malph for Amumu.


That's what I meant by change the builds.

You can go ahead and change Tryn to hybrid though. :P

You can jungle with AP tome, I tried it.
1
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06322346327 | May 17, 2011 7:29am
thank you so much man !!!!!!!
1
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06322346327 | May 17, 2011 7:29am
Jungling
1
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06322346327 | May 17, 2011 7:29am
IS
1
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06322346327 | May 17, 2011 7:28am
IT
1
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Reinfeldt | May 17, 2011 5:10am
this is so great!

I will be jungling once I purchase Amumu..wahahahaha
1
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Melarith (12) | May 16, 2011 11:10pm
+1 to even it out then. Tried looking for something I could complain about, but no such luck (D:). Maybe change the title "Viable Junglers" to "Champions that can Jungle", or something like it, since viable implies that they are a viable pick for a jungler in ranked or otherwise competitive play.

Oh wait, I found one. Under the "Good Gankers" section, you mention Fiddlesticks, while he does excel at controlling his one target and dealing okay damage (massive if the enemy team is too stupid to ward up their brushes), he's also very easy to kill. More often than not do you get a free kill whenever a Fiddlesticks tries to gank you, especially if you have dominance in the lane (since there shouldn't really be any other way for Fiddle to gank you).
1
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Xenasis (164) | May 16, 2011 10:22am
Down to 89% :(
1
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Xenasis (164) | May 16, 2011 9:40am
Jazman84 wrote:

Few things I'd like to see added.
I'd like to see a mention of Olaf's ability to heal himself with W + Smite, which makes him a great option to start at Blue Golem.

I'd also like to see a mention of a Doublebuffed-Olaf's ganking ability, not many Laners could handle a gank from him in the early game if they are away from a tower seeing he has melee and ranged slows. Even if they are dumb and try to Port to base close to a tower at full health a Untderow may still reach them. Catching a mid laner while near my Tower is nigh-******ic :P

Perhaps a Summoner Spells section other than simply a Smite section. I recommend Teleport as a Spell option as you can pinball around the map to reach a creep or get an opportunist gank.

Yes, I am an Olaf fanboy XD

Lots of junglers can start at blue!

Actually, Olaf's ganks aren't all that great to be honest, they're all right, but compared to say, Shaco or Rammus' they're nothing tbh, imo - definitely some of the worst going at the moment. If Olaf had good ganks he's be OP, let's put it that way...

I'd definitely not recommend Teleport, it's main purpose is returning back to lane, imo, Flash/Cleanse/Ghost are pretty much the only viable choices for junglers, allowing for easy access around the jungle, ability to remove CC which is a BIG part of today's metagame, and a strong gank/escape.
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lolcommuntity | May 16, 2011 9:28am
very much :D
1
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lolcommuntity | May 16, 2011 9:27am
i like it
1
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lolcommuntity | May 16, 2011 9:26am
very good
1
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lolcommuntity | May 16, 2011 9:25am
very good
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Jazman84 | May 15, 2011 7:15pm
Great guide, I would consider myself a knowledgeable Jungler, not exactly an awesome jungler :P And I still was able to learn some stuff :)

Few things I'd like to see added.
I'd like to see a mention of Olaf's ability to heal himself with W + Smite, which makes him a great option to start at Blue Golem.

I'd also like to see a mention of a Doublebuffed-Olaf's ganking ability, not many Laners could handle a gank from him in the early game if they are away from a tower seeing he has melee and ranged slows. Even if they are dumb and try to Port to base close to a tower at full health a Untderow may still reach them. Catching a mid laner while near my Tower is nigh-******ic :P

Perhaps a Summoner Spells section other than simply a Smite section. I recommend Teleport as a Spell option as you can pinball around the map to reach a creep or get an opportunist gank.

Yes, I am an Olaf fanboy XD
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Xenasis (164) | May 15, 2011 8:37am
VAIReetaws wrote:

Awesome guide, well writtin.
One question, which champions are best at counter jungling?

Thanks!

Funnily enough I just made a section about that today!
Look under the main section for Counter Jungling.

You'll be happy to know I included Xin as one of them!
1
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VAIReetaws (15) | May 15, 2011 8:24am
Awesome guide, well writtin.
One question, which champions are best at counter jungling?
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YeahYeahMe (1) | May 15, 2011 8:10am
who downvoted??? a reatard who thought its a ww guide and didnt like the items??? i mean omg its just perfect for begginers !!! detailed information,images etc. really gj
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Xenasis (164) | May 15, 2011 6:41am
Switched out Malph for Amumu.
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Xenasis (164) | May 15, 2011 6:23am
miiniiw2 wrote:

really like the runeless jungle champ suggestion.. but why didn't you add nocturne there? i saw in the spotlight he really clears neutz very fast with his passive.. but i am not really runeless i have +20% crit damage and +11% crit chance (this is for tyrn runes).. i know you may probably think its a noob build but hey we play LoL just for fun aren't we?.. i really really like your guide.. but i'm still saving for nocturne or warwick depends on what my friends suggests....

You don't mind if I may copy your guide and take the credit here do yah? :P ---> link

I answered the second question TWICE now. No, you can't, but you can link it and say "here's a jungling guide" or whatever.

I don't know about Nocturne without runes, I wouldn't recommend it to be honest, however, I've never tried it.
Nocturne is overall better than WW in the jungle imo, but WW is less rune-demanding.
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Xenasis (164) | May 15, 2011 6:22am
I know, the only reason I did pick Tiger was because you need less runes to be successful at tiger stance based jungling, Phoenix is very specific, I personally feel Pheonix is better overall, but this build isn't aimed at super high Elo players, hence the 101.

I know tanks don't have a Wriggle's, they aren't in the builds and I only said "MOST junglers have" one.

Thanks for the feedback though, it's greatly appreciated!
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Bachoru | May 15, 2011 5:57am
Extremely useful guide, added to favs (although that might not mean much). I'd just like to point out that Phoenix Stance on Udyr works wonders IMO, makes him one of the fastest junglers. Tiger is also fine, but Phoenix combined with AS runes should at least be mentioned IMO. Also, not all champions build MBR or Wriggle's; Rammus and Amumu, and Shen too, build Aegis, Randuin's or thornmail. Ninja Tabi is also viable. But +1 from me definitely, if just for linking to Smite tutorial by the oh-so-loved stonewall.
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Xenasis (164) | May 15, 2011 5:16am
^ I've already answered that...

Listed some of the junglers that excel at ganking/counter jungling in corresponding sections, and will most likely do survivability in another section (maybe junglers for low levels) next.
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Xenasis (164) | May 15, 2011 3:44am
nike wrote:

you forgot that karma can jungle :D but even so very nice build

I know she can, it just didn't make a fancy three rows, and she isn't exactly the best jungler ever either... terrible at many aspects.

"yes very nice guide!

you don't mind if I may copy your guide and take credit for it here? ---> link"
I don't mind if you LINK it, not if you copy it and take credit for it though.
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BeyondSanity (1) | May 14, 2011 10:30pm
Great Guide has helped a good bit of my friends learn to jungle.
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wRAthoFVuLK (535) | May 14, 2011 7:49pm
Holy ****...this is one of the best guides on the site hands down.
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nike | May 14, 2011 6:23pm
you forgot that karma can jungle :D but even so very nice build
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Xenasis (164) | May 14, 2011 4:58pm
Nighthawk wrote:

You can switch the builds eh.

If you mean change Trynd to AP, no.
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Nighthawk (677) | May 14, 2011 12:38pm
You can switch the builds eh.
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Xenasis (164) | May 14, 2011 10:55am

Where is trundle? O_O

He's an extremely notable jungler due to his amazing prowess there, but he just didn't pop into mind when I was making the champion builds for some reason...

One of the best junglers in the game right now though, no doubt about it.
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Xin Thai Zhao | May 14, 2011 10:41am
Where is trundle? O_O
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Xenasis (164) | May 14, 2011 9:55am
WizDuet wrote:

Nice guide, thanks for the builds.

Just one question : Can dodge seals make good replacements of armor seals?
As I only have dodge seals..


Yes they can! I just felt I'd put Armour Seals in there because they're the cheapest of the two and excellent value for money, but Dodge seals are actually better on some champions :) - I don't have them myself due to the high price, and I feel they are just too little of a difference from Armour seals to be worth 600IP more, but if you have them, by all means, use them!
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Xenasis (164) | May 14, 2011 9:52am
Nighthawk wrote:

ROFL. Tryn doesn't need CC reduction? Are you kidding. Tryndamere is useless, absolutely useless while stunned, slowed, blinded, or ANY form of CC. Any player with A QUARTER of a brain will focus their CC on Tryn because of that. Then while your main carry is useless, their team mops you up with theirs and proceed to now focus you, saving stuns etc for last because of your ult.

Yes Tryndamere can jungle with an AP tome, although you need proper runes and a slightly different route, but Tryn is 1000x better as a laner then a jungler, so I honestly don't see why you would jungle. Solo lane Tryn is scary if played well.


"but Tryn is 1000x better as a laner then a jungler, so I honestly don't see why you would jungle. Solo lane Tryn is scary if played well. "
Insane jungling speeds, passive that has a extremely good synergy with early jungling, good entrance to a lane with E and W, pretty good single target damage when he's in the lane. He's nothing amazing, but I think jungle Trynd is on the same footing than a lane Trynd, if a lane trynd is denied then he can't get health back and he REALLY needs the farm.
Also, any sort of jungler > no jungler.

"ROFL. Tryn doesn't need CC reduction? Are you kidding." - He stated that QSS and Cleanse sufficed, if you get CC'd after you use them then you may aswell not have been in the fight anyway...



@Jebus
Thank you for the kind words, Jebus, that was exactly what I was going for!

I'll get to work on the sections you suggested, in fact, I could make a whole new section dedicated to "Types of Junglers" or something, outlining where each excels and each declines. Or just list the champions, their jungle times, and how good they are at conducting ganks next to it.

The reason I didn't extend the routes too much is because I didn't want new players thinking those were fundamental routes that you should always stick to, chances are most don't read the text - and after the routes I depicted I think you should ALWAYS gank if there's a lane that needs ganking. I just felt they would feel a little TOO "set in stone", whereas the first 4 levels are almost always set in stone anyway, as 4 is where most junglers get their "gank ability".

I attempted to pick a variety of junglers when I picked the ones in the champion section, for example, I have two tanks, two AP chars Fiddles/Nunu (if you can count him as one, but he's not really a tank, so whatever), two off tanks (Udyr/WW), 2/3 AD Carries (depending on what you class Xin as) and 1/2 tanky DPS (depending on what you class Xin as). I tended to use ones I played rather than ones I knew nothing about, as I knew the builds could be a lot better that way, and I tended to use the ones that first came to mind to some extent, as long as they were half decent in the jungle. The builds I put there also tend to translate to other champions, for example, Rammus to Amumu, to some extent, yet for Fiddlesticks, who is, as you said, a weak jungler, but a noteable one for being the only "true" AP Jungler, hence, one with a unique build. I think I might switch out Malphite for Amumu though, Malphite is nowhere near as good as Amumu in the jungle, he just came to mind at the time.

Thank you for the vet recommendation too! <3
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WizDuet | May 14, 2011 9:43am
Nice guide, thanks for the builds.

Just one question : Can dodge seals make good replacements of armor seals?
As I only have dodge seals..
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Jebus McAzn (457) | May 14, 2011 9:37am
This is an excellent guide to beginner jungler players. It's not as useful if you know what you're doing, but it's an excellent guide to establish your fundamentals, which is what I assume you were going for with the "101".

There's a pretty solid explanation of different junglers, different routes, and the basics. Some things I think it would be interesting to have:

-A section on jungle times. Who are the fastest, and when can you expect them to be finished?
-A section on gankers. Which junglers are the best gankers, and at what level can they gank? For example, Nocturne/Warwick/Amumu become incredibly dangerous the minute they hit level 6 while Shaco can gank at level 2.

I'm also a little surprised that these are mostly routes to level 4 and there's no mention of a sustained route. Clearing the three basic camps, then blue buff, then the three camps again, then red buff, and the three camps again gets you to level 6 in the fastest time possible assuming you didn't gank. This is occasionally a preferable route to junglers who want to hit 6 ASAP.

You could also use slight improvements to the champions you selected, such as Malphite/Fiddlesticks/Tryndamere, who are all weak junglers compared to Amumu/Nocturne/Trundle/Cho'Gath/etc. Still, that's a really nitpicky point and I wouldn't downvote over something as petty as that.

Overall, as a jungle Amumu player who also plays Shaco/Udyr/Rammus in the jungle, I agree with almost everything you said and this guide is helpful enough to earn a +1 and vet recommendation from me. Nicely done.
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Nighthawk (677) | May 14, 2011 9:10am
ROFL. Tryn doesn't need CC reduction? Are you kidding. Tryndamere is useless, absolutely useless while stunned, slowed, blinded, or ANY form of CC. Any player with A QUARTER of a brain will focus their CC on Tryn because of that. Then while your main carry is useless, their team mops you up with theirs and proceed to now focus you, saving stuns etc for last because of your ult.

I never once said IE was useless on Tryndamere. It is simply amazing on Tryndamere, especially if you go hybrid/Crit. I reccomend it on EVERY tryndamere build due to it's massive damage. Remember for a moment that Tryn does NOT need a lot of crit items with his q and passive and just IE alone and he has a built in damage buff in his q.

Yes Tryndamere can jungle with an AP tome, although you need proper runes and a slightly different route, but Tryn is 1000x better as a laner then a jungler, so I honestly don't see why you would jungle. Solo lane Tryn is scary if played well.

And AP builds serve a different purpose then crit. Crit is obv an ad carry, but he's melee and because of that has low survivability like all ad carries (pretty much) while AP and Hybrid Tryn both have a hellofalot better survivability skills while they still deal massive damage. You could probably even build Tryn as an offtank with IE + Boots + 4 defensive items and still do massive damage, or build Rabbadon's + Boots + 4 defensive items and practically never die.
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NicknameMy (153) | May 14, 2011 5:09am
Blue Golem. With Magicpen, you cannot do it this way... AS is first for his passive, second it gets with his blood boil even better and it speeds up his jungling time very much.
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Xenasis (164) | May 14, 2011 4:43am
I wouldn't recommend getting AS Marks on Nunu, but see, I told you!

Edit: I'd recommend MPen marks myself, they help for your E and R greatly!

Oh, and was that the Golems to Golem route or the Blue Golem Route?
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NicknameMy (153) | May 14, 2011 1:41am
-I tested it now with: MS Quints, Armor Marks, Armor Seals and Magic resist Glyphs and the 1/16/13 standart jungler mastery and boots of speed+3health pots. I did the golem with 100 hp left. If i get hp-quints and attack speed marks, how would it be then^^.
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Kemando (1) | May 13, 2011 5:49pm
I was always worried about jungling and looking like a fool, I think I'll get warwick and do some work on those NUBS! Thx great guide!
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Xenasis (164) | May 13, 2011 5:09pm
DuffTime wrote:



Ha xD

I chuckled.

Well, Tanks, regardless of where they are in the map, are not the same as Off Tanks.

Tanks include Shen, Ram, Malph, Cho, etc. Very different gear as well.


Yup, this, the main distinguishing feature is usually that tanks usually have a mass CC/extremely powerful single target CC. Think Shen's AoE taunt, Rammus' 3s taunt that reduces armor, and Malphite's huge team knock up.

Tanks do not build damage stuff, off tanks usually build a Trinity then bulk (think Irelia)
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DuffTime (670) | May 13, 2011 5:03pm
degini wrote:

How critical are those armor runes for Rammus? I am trying to find a viable jungle tank based on that "new meta game" article posted here, and so far Rammus is the only one that comes up for 5v5.


Ha xD

I chuckled.

Well, Tanks, regardless of where they are in the map, are not the same as Off Tanks.

Tanks include Shen, Ram, Malph, Cho, etc. Very different gear as well.
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Xenasis (164) | May 13, 2011 4:58pm
I don't think so...

Are you using Armour Runes?

Do you start with Cloth Armour and 2x pots 1x ward otherwise?

If you're using Armour Runes, I know for a fact you can simply do the "Golems to Golem" route I put in this guide, I've been playing Nunu today funnily enough!

Have you tried to do blue buff without killing the lizards first? Not that I recommend it in the first place, but have you tried it and do you survive?

To be honest, I'd just simply recommend a "Golems to Golem" route with Cloth Armor and 5x health pots/2x pots 1x ward if they have a jungler!

Hope this helped, if you have any other questions feel free to ask!
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NicknameMy (153) | May 13, 2011 4:48pm
http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/13346-nunu-s-frozen-jungle-hell.xhtml

In this guide this way of jungling is telled. He starts with boots of speed, could this be the crucial point?
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Xenasis (164) | May 13, 2011 3:56pm
degini wrote:

How critical are those armor runes for Rammus? I am trying to find a viable jungle tank based on that "new meta game" article posted here, and so far Rammus is the only one that comes up for 5v5.


That's about off tanks, Rammus isn't an off tank, he's a main tank!

I've actually never tried a Rammus jungle myself, but due to his passive I'd say they were pretty vital unfortunately... :(

You can try without, or with tier 1 runes, but I doubt it will work that well. Rammus is amazing in the jungle however, he has insane ganks, is very sustainable and has a surprisingly fast speed for a tank! Definitely a good pick, just not so sure about the runes, tbh, I'd say those were the essential ones, even if they were T1, the rest aren't as important imo.
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degini (6) | May 13, 2011 3:22pm
How critical are those armor runes for Rammus? I am trying to find a viable jungle tank based on that "new meta game" article posted here, and so far Rammus is the only one that comes up for 5v5.
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Xenasis (164) | May 13, 2011 1:13pm
I would DEFINITELY not recommend doing that, you should be able to kill it without doing that, the lizards do balls all damage! Are you using Armour Yellows?

Waiting for ONE MINUTE to start doing the golem will greatly effect your XP gain, and Nunu should always counter jungle if the enemy has a jungler, or in my opinion just start at double golems and do the Golems to Golem route.
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NicknameMy (153) | May 13, 2011 12:14pm
Yes i know. Drainer is somebody, who drains the golem^^. If you don't want to counter-jungle and start at golem with nunu, you must do this. Cause the little pesky lizards will kill you otherwise. So, if the golem spawns, consume one lizard and run away, then come back, consume another one and again run away. Now attack the golem before he levels up(one minute after spawn) and kill him. This is the safest way to do the golem on lvl 1 with nunu.

BTW: Most time i jungle with amumu and most time we win, this is important in solo queue low elo, because nobody wants to pick a jungler and nobody wants to pick a tank...
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Xenasis (164) | May 13, 2011 12:07pm
NicknameMy wrote:

I know somebody who don't want a drained golem. Nunu! At my jungling way, i consume first one Lizard, then the other and then attack the golem. So a drainer would mess this up.


I have no idea what a "Drainer" is, but you should always kill the golem before the lizards, and to be honest you shouldn't really be starting there as Nunu anyway when he can do level 1 invasions!
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NicknameMy (153) | May 13, 2011 11:55am
I know somebody who don't want a drained golem. Nunu! At my jungling way, i consume first one Lizard, then the other and then attack the golem. So a drainer would mess this up.
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Xenasis (164) | May 13, 2011 11:45am
Added the Blue Golem Route!
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Xenasis (164) | May 13, 2011 11:44am
DuffTime wrote:

"If you want to test a jungler's viability, remember to ALWAYS do it in a Custom game, creeps don't change, there's no harm in just trying, especially when it just screws over your team if you do something or don't have the right runes or something. I'd recommend always starting in a Custom if your runes don't match ones recommended or you don't have any good rune pages yet."

Unless they patched this a long time ago, I've been told that creeps do change in practice games. I haven't looked into it however, how certain are you? =P

Nope, they don't! Not to my knowledge anyway!
If anything, it's an extremely slight and unnoticeable difference...
If it is so small and you're finishing a buff with like 50 hp anyway, that means you shouldn't really attempt it in a real game :)
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KushQQ | May 13, 2011 11:30am
DuffTime wrote:



Yeap, QSS > other forms of CC reduction.

A Trynd without QSS vs any team with any kind of CC whether it be stuns, slows or blinds is just plain bad.

Scenario - Trynd: Hi little Teemo! Hack Hack Hack Slash *blind* FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU *ignite* UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU *poison* UUUUUUUUUU *dead* end of story.
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KushQQ | May 13, 2011 11:24am
Xenasis wrote:

AS Blues did seem like the best thing I could slap there but you made a good point.
There isn't really anything else that I can put in blues that will help an early jungle at all... CDR isn't useful on everyone...
As I said though, these are only pretty basic builds, and I'm by no means a god at all of the champions there... I just slapped some generic runes in - for champions I knew, I put the correct ones in.

Thanks for the feedback though, it's really appreciated :)

I'd definitely not recommend AS Reds unless in special circumstances due to ArP reds being a hell of a lot better for AD carries imo.



Yea if you're going for early game jungling AS Blues would be O.K. at best. I would aim for a little more mid-late game tho since that's where the game really tends to sway in one teams favor or the other, that's just my personal feelings on it. If someone couldn't make up their mind on AS Blues or MR Blues I would HIGHLY recommend the MR over the AS, you would benifit from them so much more.

Like you said tho in early game jungling to do it quickest possible for any given champion the AS Blues would probably be best in slot for that while still keeping the ArP Reds. It'll just gimp your mid-late game very very slightly. I like to min-max tho myself haha
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DuffTime (670) | May 13, 2011 11:08am
Xenasis wrote:


Yeah, that was my basic reasoning. I do highly doubt Trynd can jungle with an Amp. Tome, and his AP build is kind of gimmicky imo....

@Considereth, made the suggested changes, I'm no pro with Nunu and I rarely play Xin, so the advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks for the feedback!

Oh, and I'll add a lot more in-depth of a counter jungling guide when I've finished the routes!


Yeap, QSS > other forms of CC reduction.
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DuffTime (670) | May 13, 2011 11:05am
"If you want to test a jungler's viability, remember to ALWAYS do it in a Custom game, creeps don't change, there's no harm in just trying, especially when it just screws over your team if you do something or don't have the right runes or something. I'd recommend always starting in a Custom if your runes don't match ones recommended or you don't have any good rune pages yet."

Unless they patched this a long time ago, I've been told that creeps do change in practice games. I haven't looked into it however, how certain are you? =P
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Xenasis (164) | May 13, 2011 10:49am
Canoas wrote:

@Nighthawk
Trynda doesn't need a defensive item unless he's getting focused and CCed a lot, in which case a banshees or QSS will be needed, but in most games it won't. Trynda can cut any off-tank in half with ease do to his last whisper.
In the build you suggested there's no need for IE. If you get AP IE will be useless since you don't have enough damage to make it worth the gold. Also, can a trynd really jungle with an AP tome? Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure he'll just fail miserably.
Getting another ArP item besides last whisper is a waste of gold and space. Unless you're killing a tank pretty much everyone will be dead before you get to the 3 cleaver stacks.
Also, trynda doesn't need CC reduction. If you are indeed getting CCed just get a QSS and your problems will be fixed.

Yeah, that was my basic reasoning. I do highly doubt Trynd can jungle with an Amp. Tome, and his AP build is kind of gimmicky imo....

@Considereth, made the suggested changes, I'm no pro with Nunu and I rarely play Xin, so the advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks for the feedback!

Oh, and I'll add a lot more in-depth of a counter jungling guide when I've finished the routes!
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Considereth (48) | May 13, 2011 9:21am
Nunu guide needs Banshee's Viel sooner. Xin Zhao guide needs more tanky items on him, namely Banshee Viel. After Wriggles + Black Cleaver he has a enough damage to kill any of the squishies quite easily. Everything else looks good on that part.

Everything else looks good, plus +1!
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Canoas (153) | May 13, 2011 7:11am
@Nighthawk
Trynda doesn't need a defensive item unless he's getting focused and CCed a lot, in which case a banshees or QSS will be needed, but in most games it won't. Trynda can cut any off-tank in half with ease do to his last whisper.
In the build you suggested there's no need for IE. If you get AP IE will be useless since you don't have enough damage to make it worth the gold. Also, can a trynd really jungle with an AP tome? Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure he'll just fail miserably.
Getting another ArP item besides last whisper is a waste of gold and space. Unless you're killing a tank pretty much everyone will be dead before you get to the 3 cleaver stacks.
Also, trynda doesn't need CC reduction. If you are indeed getting CCed just get a QSS and your problems will be fixed.
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Nighthawk (677) | May 13, 2011 5:18am
Xenasis wrote:

No it really doesn't...
Maybe Quints, but definitely not Marks, especially considering Trynd needs a good early to have a good late. BT ALWAYS gets fully stacked when I use them... considering Trynd one shots minions there's no reason not to. I play Trynd a lot, believe me :). You listed THREE items being better than one item, but really, it's not. Bloodthirster = 100 AD = 296 real damage, taking into account mastery/IE/Q stacks. Considering you're hitting for 750ish before your Bloodthirster, and that most squishies have 25% Armor, you would get roughly the same out of a BT than reducing them to 0 Armor, which takes a LOT of items. Last Whisper to penetrate a little of it is REALLY all you need, especially when it gives you some AD, unlike, say, Stark's.

Merc Treads really do need to be the choice when it comes to CCR - they give the highest amount and they don't stack.

AP Shaco really doesn't need skill...
Stacking W in brush and clicking E every CD =/= skill, sorry... but it's true, especially when compared to one of the squishiest champions in the game that needs to be at melee range, AD Shaco.
I played him, really enjoyed him (Shaco's one of my mains) as AP but I prefer AD because AP really can't carry games. Plus, all you really do is stack W in brush and lure people in, it's free triple kills if you know what you're doing. It's fun to do, but it's really impractical and most of the time people won't just walk into a brush that you're in after you kill them once.


AP Shaco is pretty f'ing hard. Setting up your boxes IN THE RIGHT PLACES is incredibly hard because anyone with half a brain will either buy an oracles or stay away from those bushes and poke you with a ten foot pole.

For Tryn I would probably say you can use CnD instead of Merk Greaves and maybe on some other champions, I haven't played with tenacity yet so i'm theory crafting.

Your Tryn paragraph is kinda wrong. Squishies ALWAYS build at least 1 defensive item and if you just build crit guarantee you'll be ripped apart by tanks or offtanks, which is kinda the dominant metagame right now. And I would rather deal true damage then crit for 700 or 1k at the most (probably in most games that's the most you'll get) If you get AS is pretty important for Tryn too, just as much probably as damage is. You crit more often with AS, get more q stacks and heal up a lot.
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MeltedSoul | May 12, 2011 7:15pm
WOW. Very nice jungle guide. Really detailed +1
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Canoas (153) | May 12, 2011 6:17pm
+1 as an incentive to keep improving the guide.

I still think you should make the counter jungling section more extensive and in-depth, that's where most people fail.
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mobrebel (27) | May 12, 2011 5:24pm
I love this. This guide gives enough information to allow new junglers to efficiently and effectively pick up jungling. Hopefully, with this, more people will start to see the importance of jungling and start to pick it up as well.
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Xenasis (164) | May 12, 2011 4:37pm

I read he part where you stated "Gank if you think it will be a kill (E.G. they don't have Flash off CD and are low health, or something like that), but if not, steal some of the enemy jungler's stuff and ward your own jungle."

I'm a little confused here as to what you mean. Are you implying that ganks should only be done if a kill can be achieved? Or did I misunderstand it?

If you are implying to not gank unless you can kill, that is false. Ganking is about relieving pressure from the lane, giving them room to free farm while the enemy is forced to recall. Also, it's never a bad idea to make them waste their summoner spells so that you can return later and kill them.

Other than that, great guide! Very informative, great for players new to jungling.

Also, Y U TAKE TOP NUNU GUIDE SPOT?!?!

Lol, jk jk.


Oh no, I never meant/tried to imply that!

I meant just don't jump in if they have both have full health, you have half health and the person keeping the lane has half health unless you really do think you can take them. If you're low and they're high you don't want to try and kill them, or that would result in you dying, you should lend a hand, sure, but not gank!

I'll add a small paragraph comfirming this, thanks for spotting a possible misconception :)

Edit: Added a paragraph at the bottom of Ganking to clarify this.

Edit 2: "(E.G. they don't have Flash off CD and are low health, or something like that)" - I never said this at all (thank god, I'd have kicked myself if I did)! I said to not gank them if they have more health than the people who will gank them!
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DuffTime (670) | May 12, 2011 4:34pm
Nighthawk wrote:

ArP always does more damage for Tryn then any other runes. CrC is early game only and ArP is just as good and tons better late game. Bloodthirster gives you 60 AD. And trust me when I tell you cannot farm up the creeps to make full use of it fast enough unless you get it early. I don't know why you think Stark's is bad. With Black Cleaver, YoYo's, Starks you'll reduce their ArPen to zero or below and either be doing true damage or increased damage to them. That ****ing hurts like a *****, more then BT even fully stacked.

Merc tread's no longer NEED to be your CC reduction item as they introduced Tenacity, but you do NEED the CC reduction. Almost every champion in the game has some sort of CC, put 5 of them on you and you will die a horrible death without some Tenacity.

AP Shaco requires more skill, i'll give you that, but it has a lot more burst then AD. You setup your boxes and if anyone gets close to them they die. You don't need to do anything, they just die. Horribly. That's how much AP does.


Yes.

Undecided.

Meh.

The Tryn bit is true. I haven't played since the tenacity thing so I have yet to form an opinion.

And AP shaco is bad in every map except 3v3 because he can control the map early, and it's a small map. Controlling that small of a map early has some real benefits.

And even in 3v3 AP Shaco is questionable at best =p I would take AD shaco in 3's personally.

And in 5's I won't take him at all. He's queue dodge status in 5's, real bad.
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DuffTime (670) | May 12, 2011 4:31pm

If you are implying to not gank unless you can kill, that is false. Ganking is about relieving pressure from the lane, giving them room to free farm while the enemy is forced to recall. Also, it's never a bad idea to make them waste their summoner spells so that you can return later and kill them.


Trufax bra
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ShadowReign757 (61) | May 12, 2011 4:00pm
I read he part where you stated "Gank if you think it will be a kill (E.G. they don't have Flash off CD and are low health, or something like that), but if not, steal some of the enemy jungler's stuff and ward your own jungle."

I'm a little confused here as to what you mean. Are you implying that ganks should only be done if a kill can be achieved? Or did I misunderstand it?

If you are implying to not gank unless you can kill, that is false. Ganking is about relieving pressure from the lane, giving them room to free farm while the enemy is forced to recall. Also, it's never a bad idea to make them waste their summoner spells so that you can return later and kill them.

Other than that, great guide! Very informative, great for players new to jungling.

Also, Y U TAKE TOP NUNU GUIDE SPOT?!?!

Lol, jk jk.
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Xenasis (164) | May 12, 2011 3:41pm
Two out of the initial three jungling routes have been put up with screenshots!

Finally - that section actually makes sense!
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Xenasis (164) | May 12, 2011 11:41am
No it really doesn't...
Maybe Quints, but definitely not Marks, especially considering Trynd needs a good early to have a good late. BT ALWAYS gets fully stacked when I use them... considering Trynd one shots minions there's no reason not to. I play Trynd a lot, believe me :). You listed THREE items being better than one item, but really, it's not. Bloodthirster = 100 AD = 296 real damage, taking into account mastery/IE/Q stacks. Considering you're hitting for 750ish before your Bloodthirster, and that most squishies have 25% Armor, you would get roughly the same out of a BT than reducing them to 0 Armor, which takes a