Views: 1754 Defending Against Invades at Game Start
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Let's start with a preamble.
I don't like invading in most cases. It is too high risk. You stand to lose as much or more as you gain and you throw the entire jungle pathing out of whack so you and your jungler will have less of an idea of what pathing the enemy jungler will use.
But if you learn to setup properly to make yourself aware that an invade is occurring you will increase your likelihood of winning games. High percentage.
So this discussion is for everyone, not just junglers.
As soon as the game begins buy and be ready to run out of base as soon as the fountain wall falls at the 15 seconds mark.
As a jungler I ask my team in chat to cover the jungle
cover jg pls
Starting [Red or Blue] Buff
We are going to assume no special considerations like your Bot lane wanting to be in lane when the minion waves meet so that they can get a push verses the enemy lane or a
Sion that wants to suicide on the enemies opposite buff.
If everyone goes where they are supposed to, it should look something like this.
Top laner cover the jungle entrance nearest to Top lane.
Mid laner covering the jungle entrance across from the river pixel brush
Jungler covering the jungle entrance nearest the Raptor camp, but behind the wall so they are out of vision
ADC and/or the support should go cover the tribush jungle entrance nearest Bot lane
Where do your wards go?
Top laner ward the scuttle crab around 120 before heading to lane.
Mid laner should hold their ward and see where the enemy jungler gets leashed before deciding where to ward
Jungler should hold their ward
Support or ADC should drop a ward in the pixel brush
Support or ADC in the tri-bush should drop a ward in the river that covers the tri-bush entrance before they come to leash (to prevent being surprised by the enemy Bot lane who will sometimes setup a camp in that bush)
If you get invaded when in this setup you should just drop a ward at the buff where the invade is occurring and simply fade back into your jungle.
All you would prefer to have is a headcount on the invaders.
-If the ward shows a 5 man invade and them staying to steal your buff. Don't panic.
The jungler and your Top laner should go to their opposite buff and take it.
Mid and Bot should go to their respective lanes.
As jungler you will probably want to Smite the camp to make sure your Top laner can get to lane as fast as possible. Since you stole their Red buff it may be a perfect time to go gank their Top laner from behind as they will probably have no idea you are behind them.
You can then look for the Top Scuttle crab and then look for a gank in Mid or go back to farming your Top side jungle.
-If the ward shows a 4 man invade one of two things happened.
Their Top/Mid laner is AFK at their tower
Their Top/Mid laner is hanging out at their opposite buff to prevent if from behind stolen or possibly they warded it before going to lane
This presents a dilemma.
The high percentage play is to have your Top laner leash you on your opposite buff and you just write off the lost buff.
And if you got a ward down before fading away you will have the timer on your stolen buff, which presents an opportunity for laying at trap around the 7 minute mark when the enemy jungler comes and tries to collect your buff again.
The lower percentage play is to go check on their opposite buff. It is lower percentage because if the enemy Top or Mid laner are there they can waste your time and your Top laner's time and time is not a thing you can really afford to waste in the early game.
Reality
Bot lane will go to stand beside your buff about 90% of the time because they have been trained that they are responsible for leashing. 10% of the time they will run straight to their turret and you will have to ping them over to you.
Mid lane will AFK at their turret 75% of the time. 15% of the time they will come stand with you the jungler. And 10% of the time they will go guard the bush across from the Top side pixel brush.
Top lane will 75% of the time AFK at their turret. 25% of the time they will go stand at the Top side entrance to your jungle.
Worst case you run and ward the pixel brush on the Bot side of the map. Then you run over to stand in the intersection just below Blue buff because this will let you see both paths and run away if you get invaded.
75% of the time your Bot lane will think you are starting Blue even though you said you would start Red and they will head to lane. Ping them back over.
You need to leave about 1-1:10 to make it over to Red from the intersection below Blue buff.
So even if your team does nothing to help you guard your jungle you will by your own efforts have the jungle as covered as you possibly can.
I don't like invading in most cases. It is too high risk. You stand to lose as much or more as you gain and you throw the entire jungle pathing out of whack so you and your jungler will have less of an idea of what pathing the enemy jungler will use.
But if you learn to setup properly to make yourself aware that an invade is occurring you will increase your likelihood of winning games. High percentage.
So this discussion is for everyone, not just junglers.
As soon as the game begins buy and be ready to run out of base as soon as the fountain wall falls at the 15 seconds mark.
As a jungler I ask my team in chat to cover the jungle
cover jg pls
Starting [Red or Blue] Buff
We are going to assume no special considerations like your Bot lane wanting to be in lane when the minion waves meet so that they can get a push verses the enemy lane or a
Sion that wants to suicide on the enemies opposite buff.If everyone goes where they are supposed to, it should look something like this.
Top laner cover the jungle entrance nearest to Top lane.
Mid laner covering the jungle entrance across from the river pixel brush
Jungler covering the jungle entrance nearest the Raptor camp, but behind the wall so they are out of vision
ADC and/or the support should go cover the tribush jungle entrance nearest Bot lane
Where do your wards go?
Top laner ward the scuttle crab around 120 before heading to lane.
Mid laner should hold their ward and see where the enemy jungler gets leashed before deciding where to ward
Jungler should hold their ward
Support or ADC should drop a ward in the pixel brush
Support or ADC in the tri-bush should drop a ward in the river that covers the tri-bush entrance before they come to leash (to prevent being surprised by the enemy Bot lane who will sometimes setup a camp in that bush)
If you get invaded when in this setup you should just drop a ward at the buff where the invade is occurring and simply fade back into your jungle.
All you would prefer to have is a headcount on the invaders.
-If the ward shows a 5 man invade and them staying to steal your buff. Don't panic.
The jungler and your Top laner should go to their opposite buff and take it.
Mid and Bot should go to their respective lanes.
As jungler you will probably want to
Smite the camp to make sure your Top laner can get to lane as fast as possible. Since you stole their Red buff it may be a perfect time to go gank their Top laner from behind as they will probably have no idea you are behind them.You can then look for the Top Scuttle crab and then look for a gank in Mid or go back to farming your Top side jungle.
-If the ward shows a 4 man invade one of two things happened.
Their Top/Mid laner is AFK at their tower
Their Top/Mid laner is hanging out at their opposite buff to prevent if from behind stolen or possibly they warded it before going to lane
This presents a dilemma.
The high percentage play is to have your Top laner leash you on your opposite buff and you just write off the lost buff.
And if you got a ward down before fading away you will have the timer on your stolen buff, which presents an opportunity for laying at trap around the 7 minute mark when the enemy jungler comes and tries to collect your buff again.
The lower percentage play is to go check on their opposite buff. It is lower percentage because if the enemy Top or Mid laner are there they can waste your time and your Top laner's time and time is not a thing you can really afford to waste in the early game.
Reality
Bot lane will go to stand beside your buff about 90% of the time because they have been trained that they are responsible for leashing. 10% of the time they will run straight to their turret and you will have to ping them over to you.
Mid lane will AFK at their turret 75% of the time. 15% of the time they will come stand with you the jungler. And 10% of the time they will go guard the bush across from the Top side pixel brush.
Top lane will 75% of the time AFK at their turret. 25% of the time they will go stand at the Top side entrance to your jungle.
Worst case you run and ward the pixel brush on the Bot side of the map. Then you run over to stand in the intersection just below Blue buff because this will let you see both paths and run away if you get invaded.
75% of the time your Bot lane will think you are starting Blue even though you said you would start Red and they will head to lane. Ping them back over.
You need to leave about 1-1:10 to make it over to Red from the intersection below Blue buff.
So even if your team does nothing to help you guard your jungle you will by your own efforts have the jungle as covered as you possibly can.
Mid laner should hold their ward and see where the enemy jungler gets leashed before deciding where to ward
Jungler should hold their ward
Support or ADC should drop a ward in the pixel brush
Support or ADC in the tri-bush should drop a ward in the river that covers the tri-bush entrance before they come to leash (to prevent being surprised by the enemy Bot lane who will sometimes setup a camp in that bush)
I like this for the most part but I would only have one of your bot laners ward at lvl 1. The other ward may need to be used in lane or in river after the first expires if they're pushing. You can just have them ward the ramp to the enemy blue buff instead of the pixel bush. Most junglers who go for scuttle will come down that ramp after Gromp.
Unfortunately I end up having to ward at level 1 in most games as a jungler since no one wants to use their wards early. It's ideal if you can save your first ward to block a gank after you hit 3 and the scuttlers are cleared though.
This isn't really necessary unless the camp is contested. Your top laner can leave early and make sure they get to lane in time. If you're playing a jungler with a weak early clear you can Smite if you want.
...
The lower percentage play is to go check on their opposite buff. It is lower percentage because if they are there they can waste your time and your Top laner's time and time is not a thing you can really afford to waste in the early game.
Context for the quote: This is describing a situation where 4 enemies invaded your bot side jungle and the enemy top laner is guarding their jungle.
You have better options than just these two. Depending on the top laners and your jungle pick, you could force off the enemy top laner or even kill them at level 1. You'll be seen but you can still trade buffs evenly. If your champions aren't strong enough to do that at level one, you can simply start at your top-side buff and then do the enemy top-side buff. The enemy jungler isn't going to be able to go from the south jungle directly to the north jungle, so you have time to steal if you're losing your southern buff. You probably even have time to take Raptors, which you should do if possible since the enemy jungler could do the same to you.
It's really important when you're being invaded and counterjungled to remember where the enemy jungler is and recognize where they can't be. In many cases you can trade camps evenly if you can figure out where the enemy jungler can't be, even if you're at a heavy disadvantage in the early game.
The one situation where this doesn't really work is if the enemy laners are able to push their lanes and roam to defend their jungle. This is pretty rare in solo queue and laners will only have brief windows to leave their lane in the early game without falling behind. If you do get collapsed on by laners while the enemy jungler is counterjungling you, it's not the end of the world. Do it enough times and you'll have the sense to know when you need to evacuate and when you can turn and fight. In the vast majority of games, your enemies will just let you trade camps and take their jungle if their jungler isn't there to defend.
I like the idea of warding Blue buff ramp. I'll see I can start wrangling my laners to do it.
I end up warding quite often as well even though it isn't ideal. But it is a good point that it is not a bad idea to have your Bot lane retain at least one ward if they end up pushing.
I'll have to think about this one. I can see you point, but I'm wondering if it is a timing thing. As in not show up at their buff until right is about to spawn. Going to early can result in everyone in your lap. Also not sure if I trust most of my Top laners enough to pull it off.
I find it depends on the jungler and them not doing the optimal thing. Like I've more than once ended up with
This is still one of my big weaknesses. Sometimes I have a really good idea of where they are at an other times I've no clue. If I could fix/improve one point in my game play, this would be it.
I appreciate the additional perspective and ideas. Thank you, good sir!