Please don't be immature. I left positive feedback without pointing out the egregiously wrong things with the guide in hopes that you'll be more open to criticism later, but now you're just being childish with the guide name change and arguing. Read what Sirrell said and take it to heart.

And all this time, you have yet to ask 'Why do you think this is wrong?'. So many words, so little substance.

You also make many unfounded assumptions. For example: 'for good players do not act as you are'. You've clearly never met throatslasher. Diamond player who will not beat about the bush and call you out for all mistakes you make in an often harsher tone than Lagger has displayed. And FYI, many of the veterans (Gold Elo and higher) along with other high Elo players tend to agree that Lagger is correct with his theorycrafting. In fact, I've only been known to disagree with him on maybe 3-4 counts in the year or so he's been on MOBAFire. He's also corrected me plenty of times.

So before you revenge-downvote (which is really the pot calling the kettle black), why don't you take a step out of your self-absorbed ego to put things into perspective?



AP Kog'Maw is all about ultimate and E. You shouldn't have any time to autoattack. If people are in close/melee range, you need to do as much burst damage as possible to kill them quickly before they kill you. You won't always have the luxury of a frontline that'll conveniently stop everything from their team. Also, it has 625 range, which is further than all ADCs bar Tristana and Caitlyn. So it's by no means a dangerous spell to cast... Nor does W do overall damage, because AP Kog'Maw doesn't have the AS to back up the damage.

As for masteries, I'm wondering why you take the whole 1% in Lifesteal and Spell vamp over Runic Affinity , since you'll be spamming those ults a lot and going oom rather easily even with Tear of the Goddess or Chalice of Harmony. Your summoner spells are a bit... strange as well, which makes me wonder why you take Summoner's Wrath . As you said earlier, if AP Kog'Maw is truly so, then anyone in the range of Exhaust is still more likely to kill you. I can understand Ghost. But anyway, it's more the 9th point in Utility which I have qualms with. 1% lifesteal/spell vamp won't get you as far as an extended blue buff or Nashor buff.

Your analogy is incorrect, since he doesn't imply that at all. He says you are wrong and you have (to this point) still failed to ask why, but instead, called him arrogant, poppycock, called what he said 'unwarranted' when he actually holds valid points, but YOU HAVE NOT ASKED FOR THEM. And no, you shouldn't expect to automatically receive them. If you're not willing to ask for an elaboration, then you deserve as much as you are willing to give, which is to say, nothing at all. That's not lacking in professionalism insofar as you are.



My statements DO have backings, and YOU HAVE YET TO ASK WHAT THEY ARE, but instead, you defend your build to the death from an unseen, unexisting enemy. It appears you are not even slightly interested in what the other party has to say!

In addition, why should you assume your audience knows what you are talking about? Think about it, who really looks at guides? It's people new to the champ who want to be able to pick up the champion and be able to play them to some degree. It's not about learning to self-educate/teach and that's precisely why you have missed the target audience. If you assume your audience knows what you are talking about, for what reason would they then need your guide? They already know everything in it!

In addition, just because I make a claim without supporting statements of evidence, does not mean it's unwarranted. After all, you have yet to ask why it is I make the claim I do. As such, I am not obliged to elaborate, since you are clearly not interested in the answer, meaning I'd just be wasting my time explaining.

If you want chastising over your Blasting Wand start, we can give you that too, though I suspect, since you pointed it out yourself, that you are already aware of it. Playing passively also does not make you immune to ganks and tower-dives. Armor per level seals also offer less armor until level 10 than flats, which is why in almost every single case, flat armor seals are better than per levels, as opposed to the mana seals you assumed I was implying.

The next bit made me laugh. Wall of text deterrent? Interested in seeking out those who enjoy redefining the game? Who the hell do you think you are, lol? Some pioneer of the new wave of 'interesting item builds'? Who was it that introduced Bruiser Katarina into the game? Who introduced Lee Sin and Jarvan IV mid? Karthus jungle? Who were the ones that redefined the game with these innovative picks and builds? It was the pros that did so. Are they closed-minded? Marrionettes? People follow the pros because they tend to WORK. And when it comes to raising tiers, why do I have to do new and innovative stuff when I can just do what's reliable instead?



Excuse me, brb, just going to look at your - HOLY ****. Your guides don't even get past 50% (except an S2 one) and have (not counting this one) 16 comments at most. You must have some extremely proactive **** going on there.



Incorrect. If your life is too busy, don't make guides that you can't edit. If you have time to respond to comments about your guide and to say 'I have no time' whilst simultaneously replying, you can spend that time fixing the guide.



Firstly, if you are vague with what you write, then you fail again as a guide writer. There are actually guides that are finished and are only considered unfinished when new patches come out. If you think your pitiful version of 'unfinished' is near the state of better pseudo-'unfinished' guides, I think you should reassess. In addition, some guides ARE finished, contrary to your opinion. Take Lagger's 10 Commandments, for example. Those tips remain timeless regardless of game changes.

They community has also not said that all they care about is guide text, seeing as we have raised objections to things that are on your cheat sheet. In fact, looking over my previous post, I don't make a single comment concerning the written part of your guide.

Also, you aren't the only one to create things from scratch. I made an S2 Blitzcrank guide from solely my own experience of playing Blitzcrank. I reached a max rating of 73% and it was the 3rd Blitzcrank guide on the list, receiving upvotes from Gold and higher Elo players. What you are saying at that point isn't anything substantial. In fact, it doesn't help contribute anything for your attitude at all. All it shows that your attitude is still the most unproductive one to take.



People like you are the reason your friends scoff at MOBAFire.

1) Writing a guide and thinking they are correct.
2) Implying they are innovators of new styles.
3) All the while having errors in all parts of their guide.

You certainly say you don't have time, but here you are, responding. And to be honest, no one cares if you leave. You don't have any real impact on this community. If you had 100+ prominent points or valid points, you might be missed, but someone with 30 posts as a member since 2011? Someone with 5 guides which are all (bar one) under 50% rating? Someone who has no idea what they're talking about?




Ah, and this is another recurring theme - trolls. As a reference point, I have never been called a troll by any Gold+ players whenever I comment on their guides and so on. Lagger has been called it once by a Plat player (I think). And yet all these Silver-Bronze players are quite content to do so.

We ask you to copy and paste this guide onto a word file, correct it AND THEN republish it. That way, you do not get our immediate downvotes, but at least a reassessment before we decide on a vote. On occasion, I have indeed been known to change my vote. Ask DKitten. She's published 3 Blitzcrank guides in a row, archiving the former ones as the new ones came out. Which reminds me, I upvoted on her second revision, but not her third, so I'll go do that after this.

Concerning the voting/constructive criticism, you do realise we are not obliged to help you improve your guide with constructive criticism, right? If we decide a guide is bad, we don't actually have to say why. For example, we might think your guide is bad, but aren't really all that interested in improving it. That doesn't mean we're trolls, that just means we are, at most, unhelpful. Trollvoting would be where we just downvote, regardless of opinion, with the intent to aggravate the author. In this case, it is simply because we just aren't all that interested in being helpful to someone who doesn't even ask WHY we think the things that we do. And make no mistake, you aren't the first one to do so. Many people don't ever both to ask our explanations of our opinions, so we refrain from explaining them. It's a waste of time, after all. However, on occasion people do ask why we think what we do. In those cases, we know that the guide-writer is actually interested in discussing and theorycrafting, in which case, we give them the explanation. Take DKitten as the example again. Twice, me and Lagger have commented on her guide (actually, I've done it three times now), every single time, she responds well, asks us questions, makes iterations to her build accordingly to the conclusions she reaches (she still disagrees with me in some cases).

If you want me to trollvote, I'll gladly downvote all your guides. Be right back. Done.

I do enjoy my life. I get to play LoL with good people. I get to win and lose against better players. I get to have a life outside of LoL. And all the time downvoting trash guides like yours.



Because threats work so well and will definitely serve to make your guide better.

As I said at the start. All sophistry, and no substance.

Nothing warrants you still, and you continue to disrespect, your not worth my time, considering your bad personality and your ungracious/unprofessional responses, I am going to now downvote everything of yours, for you are just throwing red herrings and making unwarranted claims, you are not worth my time, and you have no idea what type of player I am, you have never played with me, you cannot do more than throw out fallacies and unwarranted claims can you? I am not going to apologize for not speculating on runes, not doing that for I do not have them, if you are too daft to understand that then I apologize. Obviously with how you represent yourself you are nothing more than a toxin in the community, unless you change your tone (not saying up vote, saying stop acting like trash), I am going to ignore you completely, for good players do not act as you are.

I disagree that it is the wrong second skill maxed on AP in entirety, for if you are getting close enough to cast that, you are dead or the opponent is bad in my experience. The W allows you to fight a bit more safely in teamfights, plus with ap that w tends to do overall more damage. I view the q as being a last ditch effort to survive, for if your opponent is that close and you are truly AP Kog, then you are dead. I do not know what you mean by the masteries are a little off, is that for both or one? This is why I say your college that is a bit lacking in professionalism, he talks down of, but wont explain why, so it is like a kid saying "I know you are but what am I?" in that it is an unwarranted claim.

Sorry, in layman's teams I mean his statement has no backing nor does yours, I like to assume my audience knows what I am talking about, and if not they will be proactive, or maybe get the general masses/youth to start to learn to self educate/teach. I do not know if you knew what I meant by unwarranted but now you do. Provide backing to why you think the masteries are bad, the runes are there because I am not going to throw mana regen on hybrid kog, and I say to play him passive for the first 4-5 minutes. What I cannot believe is that I am not getting as chastised over rushing blasting wand via no items as compared to my strategy of my wall of text deterrent such that people only look at the build, for open minded individuals would do so, those close minded will just follow the pro's thus being marionettes, so I guess the masses are not my audience, but those who enjoy redefining the game.

I know what pressing the publish button means, I have done this thrice before, I just had more proactive and open minded individuals commenting that understood what I was doing for I stated it in the text.

I see where your coming from, I wrote those posts concurrently, it is not the wrong attitude to take in this instance, for my life is too busy right now to deal with the trivial aspects of beautifying guide that takes hours to compose the information, these responses are fast for I do not have to go in depth about why and why not for Kog variations.

Although I did not say what you said, you took me out of context and paraphrased, the community has spoken that all they really care about is guide text, and considering you are also commenting on my runes, it must be that you guys are proponents for speculating build schema's, even though there's tons of resources one Google search away on how to play Kog including even my old guide that is linked to. I create everything of my own from scratch, not archiving anything, this will remain evne if it gets downvoted so hard that it reaches 0%, it just wont improve anytime soon.


Did you miss the fact of the following (watch the bold):


"Also, if you actually wanted the guide to be finished you'd have waited, but now it will never be unless it goes to or above 50%.For you are part of the community, and you have spoken that I should not waste time fine tuning and beautifying the guide, thank you for your input, and thank you for keeping this kog mine and mine alone.

As to go off your quote, I assume you are saying to copy the text to make a new guide to repost, I said idc if this picks up, but you chose to kill it, not wasting my time on it, what is the text/item (non-food) version of bon appetit? Your vote was the final coup de grâce, congratulations, and since no guide is every truly done/finished, I could be a real ******* and go down vote all your guides for being unfinished, but I will not, sorry bro."

Did you catch that? It may have seemed to insinuate one thing, but in reality it stands at another, it is a real covert way of saying I am still going to work on the guide, but you want to slow me down to respond to posts that attack the part of the guide that would not even be there if text was not required.

A to subdue your argument on the other post: "You clearly have spoken that you do not want me to improve the guide via voting as such uncalled for behavior."
Means that he is unprofessional and with such poor unwarranted claims I see why many of my newer friends scoff at mobafire, and it makes me consider leaving; as I have stated in the past, I do not really have time for this, and to be chastised on what I said to ignore at the start of the guide means that none of you read it and ignored it all.

I could assume that you all are trolls because I say I don't have a lot of time to spend on it, you want me to archive and make a new one (which form that I assume that means you wouldn't reassess this 1, you would want me to waste time copying information wasting room on the servers in order for you all to pompously revote, you can change your vote (and if you cannot then mobafire is poorly coded and I am going to cease to use it, for I don't look at builds unless it is to compare them to my own (to see if there are any like it)). If you can change your vote, and you two remain asking me to archive and republish my guide, then you two are trolls, if you can (not will) change your vote on this one then you are not (only if you are willing to), if you cannot then goodbye, you two are trolls for you downvote rather than leave constructive criticism (then decide how to vote based on ones response), and congratulations on getting me out of this community, good luck with life.

Tread lightly, for your all's next response decides the fate of me and in turn my network of friends.

Wrong second skill maxed on AP.

Masteries are indeed a little off and armor per level seals are incorrect.

Walls of text just make this unappealing to read. You don't take your audience into account at all. That means you fail as a guide writer. And if you leave a build-only guide, then you'd fail then as well, because you don't have any explanation as to why you do what you do, leaving the readers confused and unable to fully understand your choices.

Pressing the 'publish' button means that the public can then submit their view on it. So if you submit an unfinished guide, expect a similarly unfinished answer from your peers. We don't have time to fine tune every single noob guide out there for their respective authors. Either you do a good job and get upvotes or do a bad job (i.e, an unfinished job) then expect downvotes.

Y'know, quite a few of the more less self-conscious guide writers actually write out the whole guide a second time and ask people like me and Lagger to reassess our votes. On occasion, I have been known to change an earlier downvote to an upvote.

The attitude you've just taken is 'if the community doesn't support me, then I won't correct anything' (and yes, that is what you've just said in your last 2 posts). This is the WRONG attitude to take, especially when the guide is wrong also.

No. That's just you being bad.



I'm prominent because good players (not you!) can see that I talk sense. It's the bad players who think they're good who just write my comments off without even asking why I say so.



If you turn out an unfinished guide, you're going to get a bad rating. No two ways around it. I know you want to solicit opinions on whether you should continue, but it just doesn't happen that way. Not to mention the guide sucks.