-1 for i completely disagree with ur runes and the skill build it didnt work will for me at well in 3 games when 0/3 with ur build...

Anytime. Now the thing about Bear Stance is if you get that stun on TF or Morgana they will likely use that stun/snare to run. If you have a stun or slow laning partner than you have a kill. I suggest this from experience. Ive had great success with it and Im passing it on.

The thing about phoenix over tiger for farming, is Phoenix is AoE both Active and Passive. Tiger is more of a burst dmg kind of skill IMO. I hope that all your experimentation helps you find something that you can faceroll with. Good Luck

@chaotic bliss hmm i see where your coming from getting the bear rank first. but i figured that it wouldn't be all that good if your laning early against people with stuns or snares like twisted fate or morgana. i can definitely see your point if you were up against melee chars. whenever i choose turtle i'm the first to initiate that early game fight in the bushes while my laning partner backs me up. and your right about the phoenix for farming. i'm still trying out different ability set ups too so at the moment i kinda used the tiger ability to farm. i'm gonna try getting the exhaust and seeing how it works. thanks for the input :D

I have to dis agree with you about early game. Getting the improved ranks in Bear over Turtle is defensive in its own right. The extra speed is like having Ghost for a short time. Plus you can spam bear to keep the speed boost up. Turtle should be used to tank or save your *** when a gank or team fight falls apart.

And you wait too long to get Phoenix. This is his farming tool for creeps. Get one rank at least before LvL4. That will help with farming. Change Heal to Exhaust. That will help you get some early game kills too.

ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAR!