League of Legends (LoL) Question: The Paradox of Elohell
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The Paradox of Elohell
So please tell me what you think about Elohell and if it exists, keep this in mind though:
I am person a and play Garen
There is also Person B playing Annie
Both are complaining about ELohell and both get told its their fault and not their teammates, how can it still be their fault since annie is at fault and not garen for annie and for garen he is at fault and not annie making either everyones fault or noones.
Also, Games in low elo tend to take longer making the skills required to win in Bronze to GOld different than in higher Elos because in Low elo games there is alot more emphathise on Teamfights and late game, if you dont onetrick a champion that just 1v5s in the late by winning hte early eventhough if you are a plat player can still lose bronze games and be stuck there for an extended amount of time because he lacks the skills of winning games that drag out in lower elos, even if you can hold your own with a 60% winrate in Platinum you do a 45% winrate in bronze.
So can you still deny a ELohell and if so why? or is Elohell a real thing.
(The spellingmistakes are on purpose and you are allowed to keep them :D)
I am person a and play Garen
There is also Person B playing Annie
Both are complaining about ELohell and both get told its their fault and not their teammates, how can it still be their fault since annie is at fault and not garen for annie and for garen he is at fault and not annie making either everyones fault or noones.
Also, Games in low elo tend to take longer making the skills required to win in Bronze to GOld different than in higher Elos because in Low elo games there is alot more emphathise on Teamfights and late game, if you dont onetrick a champion that just 1v5s in the late by winning hte early eventhough if you are a plat player can still lose bronze games and be stuck there for an extended amount of time because he lacks the skills of winning games that drag out in lower elos, even if you can hold your own with a 60% winrate in Platinum you do a 45% winrate in bronze.
So can you still deny a ELohell and if so why? or is Elohell a real thing.
(The spellingmistakes are on purpose and you are allowed to keep them :D)
Answers (5)
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Not true. When I was gold I smurfed my friend from bronze 5 to silver 5 by playing a variety of champions I'd never played before, just because bronze was so ridiculously easy that I could get away with that. My overall w/l was something like 29/3 across all champions.
It's common for bronze players to think that even gold/plat players wouldn't be able to win the games they're playing, but I guarantee you that not a single plat player that wasn't straight up boosted would struggle to win games at bronze. It's not like it's an entirely different game down there, it's just that everyone ****ing sucks. So when you play against people so much worse than you are it's easy to stomp your lane and even 1v2 whenever you get ganked, and convert your lead into a 20 minute stomp because no one else knows what they're doing and how to handle you.
Low Elo games are only more emphasized on team-fights and late-game if you're not good enough to stomp the enemies into a 20 minute surrender every single game, which Plat+ smurfs are all definitely capable of.
Bronze players blame their teams, silver players blame their teams, gold players blame their teams, plat players blame their teams, diamond players blame their teams, I blame my teams. It's not unique to bronze. There is no Elo hell, all there is is someone being at a similar enough level to the rest of the players at their Elo that they're unable to stomp the enemies hard enough to consistently carry dead weight team-mates. The only difference is that since Bronze players are at the bottom of the barrel, they think their situation is unique to their Elo and no one else would understand because they haven't played at that Elo.
But actually we have, almost every high Elo player started out at Bronze, and many of us were one of those people complaining about Elo hell and how you can't climb because of it. But then we actually succeed in climbing to one tier, then to another, then to another, and along the way we realized that every Elo is just the same and there's never a point where you're not being dragged down by your team-mates. The only way you can actually get past that is by being so comparatively good that you can stomp the enemies as hard as if they were bots. A gold player can do that at bronze, a plat player can do that at silver, a diamond player can do that at gold. If you're a bronze level player competing in bronze, you're going to struggle to climb just as much as a diamond level player competing in diamond, and even a challenger level player competing in challenger. High Elo players that have played in every Elo can confirm that as a fact for you. Low Elo players that have only ever played at low Elo are the only ones who insist that their situation is different and only they can know because they're the ones playing at that Elo. Elo boosting is a thing you know, and you don't have to be Challenger to boost in bronze, plat/diamond players boost bronze/silver friends all the time, and never ever will you hear any of them saying "Holy **** I understand now, all these teams are just uncarriable, no wonder you can't climb". They just stomp almost all their games and end at 20 minutes, laughing the entire time at how bad their enemies and team-mates are.
Low Elo players insist that the lower Elo you go the harder it is to win, so they can't climb because they're stuck in a permanent downward spiral of losing games because of their teams and dropping even further. But it's easily verifiable just by having friends/others smurf in low Elo accounts that the lower Elo you go, the easier it is to win games, to the extent that even a silver 1 level player can boost a bronze 5. Source: I have a silver 1 friend who often smurfs on her friend's bronze 5 account whenever she's tired of losing games. She wins almost every game. When the owner of the account keeps playing they go back to losing all the time so the account just pretty much permanently stays at low enough Elo that even a silver 1 player could boost it.
If you're stuck in low Elo it's because you're either equally bad or not much better (and being slightly better is nothing to brag about so don't bother arguing that you should be 2 divions higher than you are). Take it from people who have seen it all in every Elo that your ranked experience isn't anything different to what the rest of the ladder experiences.
Also neither Garen nor Annie are the sole reason for their loss, but both are to blame for not being able to play well enough to carry the game. It's not that the fault is 100% one or the other's, it's that every single game is carriable if you're good enough, and in this situation neither Garen nor Annie were good enough. And that's not their team's fault, it's their fault.
quod erat demonstrandum
You misunderstand. The loss is everyone's fault. But it's not the team's fault that Hecarim can't carry at that Elo. It's not the team's fault that Annie can't carry at that Elo. It's not the team's fault that Garen can't carry at that Elo, etc.
If you're the one that is trying to climb but can't win games, it's your fault for not being able to carry them. If Hecarim is trying to climb but can't win games then it's his fault he can't carry games, but it's not his fault that you can't carry games.
There is no paradox.
And according to op.gg you ended that season silver 2. That doesn't sound like climbing.
Also I'm pretty sure you even must've been boosted to gold, since your
This isn't holding your own, or even just being "a little behind". Plus it makes no sense for you to be able to hold your own against gold/plat players but bronze players are good enough to consistently set you behind.
I doubt that's true, and even if it were League of Legends isn't just laning phase. You can be good at laning phase and bad at the rest of the game. In fact most people are better at laning than at everything else.
1. You don't need high skillcap champions to carry. In fact it's easier for low Elo players to carry with easy mechanical champions, since no one in bronze has the mechanics to properly play Riven, Yasuo or Lee.
2. Ryze is a high skillcap champion. And he can easily 1v5 if you actually have that skill.
Then you're not good enough to climb.
People at my Elo rarely listen to my calls either.
"The only difference is that since Bronze players are at the bottom of the barrel, they think their situation is unique to their Elo and no one else would understand because they haven't played at that Elo."
My Diamond 2 flex queue smurf.
"The only difference is that since Bronze players are at the bottom of the barrel, they think their situation is unique to their Elo and no one else would understand because they haven't played at that Elo."
Yes it's frustrating, but that's ranked for you. Not bronze, just ranked.
Why do you think you're able to climb if you're negative in w/l in both solo and flex queue? Almost everyone thinks they deserve to climb even when they're failing to, why are you the exception that genuinely belongs at a higher Elo?
Welcome to bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond, master and challenger. If everywhere is Elo hell, nowhere is Elo hell.
So you're good at laning phase, but bad outside of it. And because you win lane, you think you deserve to win the game. Correct?
Nope. Even my aforementioned silver 1 friend can stomp at your Elo.
"The only difference is that since Bronze players are at the bottom of the barrel, they think their situation is unique to their Elo and no one else would understand because they haven't played at that Elo."
Except you got demoted from gold in season 5 and ended the season at silver 2. In season 6 you ended silver 5 and assuming you mean you got placed in bronze, your season 6 win rates are all super mediocre.
Not sure why you say your win rate gets higher and higher the higher Elo you are since in season 5 you were apparently Elo boosted to gold and your Elo has only gone lower and lower ever since. That's a result of losing more and more games while you were higher up, not winning more. And it's not because of placements placing you lower than you deserve to be, since despite being at your highest ever Elo of gold in season 5, you lost enough games to be demoted, then kept on losing enough to be demoted to silver 2.
In an attempt to make it sound like losing games at low Elo isn't your fault you say that you find it easier to win at higher Elo, but that's completely false since at higher Elo you lost so much that you dropped pretty far down.
The reality is that you're just the same as every one of your team-mates. You all think you deserve to climb and think that the only thing holding you back is each other. And just like them, you think you're the exception to the rule, you actually deserve to climb, while they're just bad and holding you back. Even though the same people "holding you back" are the same enemies that are supposedly worse than you but keep beating you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
The Dunning-Kruger effect affects like over half the people that play competitive games like League. Every single one of them insists that they're the exception and they're actually better than their results indicate. I don't see why any of them are the exception, and I don't see why you're the exception.
If you actually think you can climb, then put in the work and prove it. If you're not good enough, then get better.
I'll come back to what I mean, I've been Gold season 5, have firends in I regularly play with from Gold to Plat and I hold my own there, I can get the laningphase done mostly equal or a little ahead, sometimes a little behind in my low elo games (placed B5 with -3lp by riot this season after winning 5/10 matches where i and its no joke looked up the enemeis on op.gg had gold and platins in my enemies while being paraired with bronze andsilver, resulting in a mmr gap of a few hundred mmr points) I in 80% of my games stomp my lane, I even gank and get mid and bot a few kills but don't play the 1v5 high skillcap champions like riven, yasuo, lee etc. sticking to the ones I like e.g Garen, Ryze with not having the skillz to win the late game since I (and yes it is true) rarely have anyone listening to calls (and no I wasn't toxic before) There are sooooo many games I lost while being 15/5/12 or 17/6/20 making it even more frustrating, I am able to climb, but it is painfully slow (and that is what I mean with elohell, not being stuck but having a slow as **** climb if you have not the skills of that elo) like I said I can hold my on on rankeds gold to plat, I stomp bronze and silver lanes but I lack the skill of finishing and 3v1 the enemy to stomp them early making it alot harder for me to climb. A dia for sure has the skills to do so by now on his own pretty quickly but I think that any gold to plat player with the same problem as me will have the same struggle of painfully slowly climbing the ladder. my winrates go up the higher my rank was, the longst time I was in a elo was bronze because it took me ages to climb up but the higher I became from the rank the higher my winrate became. If you have the skills of that early lane stompiing in addition to a carry champ then sure even a bronze player can get himself out of bronze.
Saying you're losing because an ally did something wrong is missing the focus. If you were actually good, your good plays would overcome your allies' faults (and since your enemies are just as bad, you should be able to overcome them if you want to climb), so you should focus on what you can do better to win a game. You'll have feeding teammates in Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond and even Challenger. If you start blaming them because you can't win you'll be trying to win an argument instead of trying to win the game. Just stop blaming others and start getting better.
On the skillset difference: It's not significantly different. Low elo players are bad at closing games early, but that doesn't mean early/mid game champions are bad. And anyways, you'll have long games and short games in every elo, so you should learn to play both even if one of them is slightly more common. You're making it sound as an excuse and it's an awful one to make.
If you go on large losing steaks and then turn around onto large winning streaks, this will cause your MMR to keep drifting back and forth. This makes it feel as though you are standing still.
That is Elo Hell.
I've been as high as Silver 2 and as low as Bronze 3 (2016 placements, WTF). Currently sitting at Silver 4 just having failed placements for Silver 3. I'll get out of Silver 4 when I win 2 out of 3 placement matches (consistently playing better than other people with a similar MMR to me).
I'll get out of Silver and into Gold if/when I play better than other people vying for the that same slot in my region. How long is that going to take? As long as it takes for me to get gooder.
I am the only constant between my games. If I'm not winning at rate that allows me to climb then there are aspects of the game that I need to learn in order to increase my odds of winning and I need to apply the things that help me win consistently and consistently avoid doing the things that cause me to lose games.
Example from a recent ranked game that I lost - Damn that low health Fizz is juicy and it was sweet revenge to kill him after he killed our Mid laner and hopped away, but damn there was their Jarvan IV to clean me up and then they took Dragon right after that. That was one way I threw that game. I need to cut that **** out if I want to win more games.
Most people who complain about their teammates, from my perspective, are the ones who lose games because of their own mistakes.
For example when a laner is complaining about their jungler not ganking when the enemy jungler is. You can't blame your jungler for you not having vision and being caught out consistently. If you don't change your play style to fit the situation then it is your fault. Most junglers will ignore your lane if you lose too easily because they want to secure their stronger lanes.
I just played a game where I lost terribly because I got auto filled in support. I'm not going to blame my team for feeding hard even though I won my lane because I chose Yorick support and still wasn't able to carry them. Clearly I made many mistakes in that game, one of which was not choosing a real support champion while also not taking kills so I ended up being useless to my team because the enemy had champions like Teemo, Brand, and Vlad.
If you lose a game, look at what YOU did wrong not what your team did wrong. Did you get caught out? Were you helping your team enough or too much? Were you dodging skill shots? Did you have enough CS? Did you try to secure objectives or push lanes? There's so many things to look at and if your team is doing badly generally they'll listen to your shot calling if you're doing good. I normally take the role of shotcaller when I'm losing to turn it around.
Good players know how to win and great players know how to win while behind.