I have a friend new to league.

[quote=RottedApples]nunu is in a similar boat with ww.[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri][quote=Vynertje]Seriously, I don't want to have to call you out for talking shit constantly but you really have to quit this crap lmao. You're making conflicted statements and some others just don't make sense at all. I'm totally fine with everyone having different opinions, but do present them as such instead of claiming them as facts and unnecessary remarks towards others.[/quote] Pot calling the kettle black much? [quote]So you're saying it's better to put them on a champion that is [b]even more vulnerable[/b] to ganks, cc etc. and has very distinct strengths and weaknesses rather than for example a very safe and one-dimensional ADC like [[tristana]]? [/quote] You put them at ADC, and you place a huge bullseye target on them that will attract focused assassin attempts whereas teams are less likely to focus on killing a support unless there's no one else around to kill. I made this point earlier and assumed people would remember it. [quote]I find it hilarious at the very least that you think you know what I'm basing my statements on, because this makes no sense at all. Communication and coordination is as much of a non-factor in high level solo queue than it is in silver, perhaps until you get challenger - and it certainly isn't a factor I'm taking into account.[/quote] Fair enough. I was trying to be generous to you, thinking that could be the only reason why you would think that [[nami]] is a high skill-cap character. Otherwise, your statement is laughable. Her kit is simple to understand. The only skill-cap issue is learning how to wait for the right moments to fire her bubble stun, but that's something that can come fairly quickly to a new player as well. Plus, even if a new player misses 10 bubble stuns in a row, that one successful bubble stun that turns a fight can be exhilarating. Also, supports have the benefit that their utility does not drop off as hard if/when they get behind. So, if your new player does die 10 times, he or she can still join a team fight and provide some cc and/or heals and still feel like they're contributing. As an ADC, if you get behind (and don't understand how to aggressively farm multiple lanes), your usefulness drops off significantly, which can also add to the frustration for a new player.[/quote]

[quote=sirell]^ You should really quit while you're, uh, behind enough as it is. I don't really see Vyn making conflicted statements such as you are, so I don't understand where you are pulling the hypocritical straw-man card from. Plus, if you're saying he's the pot calling the kettle black, then you are actually indirectly admitting that you are making conflicted statements. Get rekt 101. Junglers should always look to gank the support because supports are generally less mobile. How many supports do you know have blinks or leaps or dashes like [[ezreal]], [[caitlyn]], [[lucian]], [[tristana]] or [[graves]]? Getting a gank off on an ADC is just an added luxury if you can manage it. It doesn't matter what champion you're playing, if you're going 0/10, you're not going to get less frustrated just because you're still 'useful'. And, they will eventually have to learn ADC anyway. You may as well get them started on that because 1) being ranged gives you leeway for escapes and not being killed, 2) you learn to position, which is crucial to any role anyway, 3) you're actually doing something instead of sitting in a fucking bush for 15 minutes until laning phase is over because you don't know what the fuck you're supposed to be doing on support anyway.[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]I'm enjoying how much salt is in this thread. Funny story, i played with friends ages ago (One is gold now, one is plat, both are filthy casuals) and went support because i knew i would never deal enough damage to carry. It worked. And funnily enough if your friend is terrible and youre high elo, then in a blind pick its not his fault for losing games, its yours. Law of averages[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri][quote=sirell]^ You should really quit while you're, uh, behind enough as it is. I don't really see Vyn making conflicted statements such as you are, so I don't understand where you are pulling the hypocritical straw-man card from. Plus, if you're saying he's the pot calling the kettle black, then you are actually indirectly admitting that you are making conflicted statements. Get rekt 101.[/quote] I was being generous. Vyn is the one who keeps making ridiculous statements and pulling shit out of his ass. If he wants to make an actual argument, he can try responding directly to the points I make rather than make pompous statements from an ivory tower that have no basis in reality or relate to anything I said. As for "conflicted statements," I am baffled by this comment, as I can't find any conflicted statements I've made. Feel free to quote me where you believe I've contradicted myself. [quote]Junglers should always look to gank the support because supports are generally less mobile. How many supports do you know have blinks or leaps or dashes like [[ezreal]], [[caitlyn]], [[lucian]], [[tristana]] or [[graves]]? Getting a gank off on an ADC is just an added luxury if you can manage it.[/quote] Now, this is a reasonable argument. You are actually responding directly to something I said, which is good. However, I have to say that in my experience, ADC's have the bullseye target on them. If the ADC is available to attack, people will attack the ADC (using cc's, etc.), whereas people will only attack the support if the ADC isn't attackable -- whether we're talking about ganks or team fights. The problem with targeting a support first is that you're using your damage and abilities on the support while the ADC is presumably tearing your team apart. If you have a new player playing a more passive support or a more tanky support, then they can be less likely to attract as much attention. [quote]It doesn't matter what champion you're playing, if you're going 0/10, you're not going to get less frustrated just because you're still 'useful'.[/quote] I disagree. If the person is there mostly to be social, then they can be excited about being in the group and getting than one good stun off or healing their friend during an intense fight. They won't like dying 10 times, but they can still feel a part of the group. [quote]And, they will eventually have to learn ADC anyway. You may as well get them started on that because 1) being ranged gives you leeway for escapes and not being killed, 2) you learn to position, which is crucial to any role anyway, 3) you're actually doing something instead of sitting in a fucking bush for 15 minutes until laning phase is over because you don't know what the fuck you're supposed to be doing on support anyway.[/quote] It again depends on the kind of player we're talking about, which is where the OP will have to make a judgement call. Does this person actually intend on intensively learning the game and playing on their own? Then, sure, have them play whatever kind of character they tend to like playing in games -- mage, warrior, tank, marksman, healer, etc. -- and teach them a variety of characters and roles over time. But if we're talking about someone's relative or significant other, who just plans to play only with this group of friends and really just wants to have fun with the group no matter what role they play, then I believe that some of the suggestions I made above, supports and long range mages, are viable choices.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Just for starters, having a kit that's easy to understand is not the same as having a low skill cap. There are numerous champions that have a very simple skill set, but are still VERY hard to play. Nami is an example: she has very distinct strengths and weaknesses and has one of the hardest skillshots in the game to use correctly - especially considering the meta champions in bot lane (lots of mobility). You're incredibly vulnerable to multiple different things (2v2 all-ins with enemy hard CC, ganks etc.) which certainly doesn't make her forgiving. Once you fall behind, your 2v2 is done.[/quote]

[quote=sirell]The one most apparent to me is that you're saying that for some reason, landing 1 bubble after missing 10 is enough to spark excitement as a support. But this isn't unique to supports at all. Fluking a kill would do that too. Or stealing Baron. Or making other plays. What you're suggesting seems to be that just because supports pack more utility, they're more likely to make plays and thus be less unhappy about being 0/10, when this is actually just a fallacy and doesn't matter what you're playing. In other words, there's a conflict between your argument and your conclusion. There's another in your comprehension of what low/high skill caps are. It's talking about how the effectiveness of a champion increases or decreases based on the ability of the player. Low skillcap champions are ones where even if the player is bad, the effectiveness of the champion is not greatly reduced like, for example, [[annie]]. Her kit is so easy that you can even be good with her by accident. Conversely, high skillcap champions are ones where if the player is bad, the effectiveness of the champion is also reduced, even possibly to the point of a negative impact to the team. [[nami]] is one of these. Being able to land the bubble at the right time and place is possibly the most crucial thing to picking this champion, because it's such a tricky skillshot to land, as well as knowing when the most opportune moment to land it is and as your ability to land these bubbles go up, so does the effectiveness of the champion. Failure to land these bubbles means that you might as well not pick [[nami]] because you simply can't use her. Sustain and CC are her two biggest assets and if you can't use one of them, she's just not worth picking. Perhaps in low Elo they don't understand the priority of targets and so constantly focus the AD, or you're just so out of position that they always die anyway, but the reality of it is that the support should be receiving the focus unless they've gotten too tanky or the AD can be killed. If the ADC can be killed, he should be, but going for the support is more reliable. It's also easier to protect your ADC from a gank if you're the one playing support, rather than your newbie friend. If you're playing this game for any period of time, you should end up playing everything anyway, even if casual. Most don't have access to a complete champion pool like me and will rely on playing the weekly rotations.[/quote]

[quote=Nebrasketball]Let's play a guessing game! I'm thinking of a word, 5 letters long, it is found in houses and everyone walks on it. Vynerjte or sirell, do you have any idea what word I could be thinking of??[/quote]

[quote=TheReallityOfJax][quote=MungoGeri][quote=Vynertje][quote=MungoGeri]I wouldn't start your friend off on ADC, since it involves a lot of understanding of positioning and good kiting mechanics. I'd either start the friend off on an easy to play support -- perhaps [[nami]] or [[leona]]. Or, you can start the friend on a nice safer long range mid mage like [[lux]] or [[ziggs]].[/quote] Bullshit. No role or playstyle is intrinsically easier or harder to learn. Any new player should just try to play as much different things as possible and find out what role he enjoys most.[/quote] Wow, man. Try getting up on the other side of the bed from now on. You might end up having a better disposition. The situation that we are talking about is a new player playing with and against higher mmr players. A brand new player playing ADC is likely to get frustrated by all the likely deaths that come from having a big target on his or her back. As a frequent support player, I know as well as you that playing support involves a lot of subtle decision making. However, it's likely to be more forgiving and less frustrating for a new player as the OP gradually coaches his or her friend on the more subtle aspects of the game. I suggested [[nami]] since she can stand back more and can give a new player the feeling that they are helping the team even if they end up dying too much. [[leona]] is also good, because her tankiness helps a new player survive and her basic attack pattern is to mash her keyboard. Similarly, a caster with a decent cast range can make it easier for a new player to hide behind the more experienced players and feel like they're contributing. You just have to tell the person to stay back and lob spells into the fray. As the person becomes more experienced, he or she can learn how to better position themselves and make even better plays.[/quote] well my friend wants to learn how to jg he started off in adc because his fav champ is jinx and well personally i undertand what this dudes saying to you when people are new they should learn jg if anything so they can not be one of those people who duo top because levels 1-10 dont know anything[/quote]

[quote=TheReallityOfJax][quote=PsiGuard]If you want to win, make him play a simple, useful support like [[Janna]] or [[Soraka]]. If you want him to learn, he should play whatever he likes most.[/quote]i agree thanks for the help youve allways helped alot on my last few posts[/quote]