Building a support hero... Item selection

[quote=Jvstm]AP TARIC SO GOOD![/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]^Agreed[/quote]

[quote=Freddy Shopan]It's kinda funny that so many support question threads just popped up right now, seeing as changes are on the way. But whatev. In competitive play, the consensus is running support with gold per 5 items such as philosopher's stone and heart of gold, and giving all of the minion kills to your ad carry. But your main goal should be to BUY WARDS. No matter what level of play, these will help. Cooldown reduction, survivability, and AP come after (probably in that order of importance, but maybe switching the ladder depending on the character).[/quote]

[quote=Mazuran][quote=Freddy Shopan] It's kinda funny that so many support question threads just popped up right now, seeing as changes are on the way. But whatev. In competitive play, the consensus is running support with gold per 5 items such as philosopher's stone and heart of gold, and giving all of the minion kills to your ad carry. But your main goal should be to BUY WARDS. No matter what level of play, these will help. Cooldown reduction, survivability, and AP come after (probably in that order of importance, but maybe switching the ladder depending on the character). [/quote] It kinda annoys me how support characters are just EXPECTED to buy wards, despite the fact they will have a far smaller income. I'm fairly sure that if you're giving away all the last hits to your carry, they'll be able to spare the 150 gold for a couple of wards more than you can. (Number one annoyance: Your mid lane demanding that you buy their wards for them. Lol no mate, jog on.)[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=Mazuran] [quote=Freddy Shopan] It's kinda funny that so many support question threads just popped up right now, seeing as changes are on the way. But whatev. In competitive play, the consensus is running support with gold per 5 items such as philosopher's stone and heart of gold, and giving all of the minion kills to your ad carry. But your main goal should be to BUY WARDS. No matter what level of play, these will help. Cooldown reduction, survivability, and AP come after (probably in that order of importance, but maybe switching the ladder depending on the character). [/quote] It kinda annoys me how support characters are just EXPECTED to buy wards, despite the fact they will have a far smaller income. I'm fairly sure that if you're giving away all the last hits to your carry, they'll be able to spare the 150 gold for a couple of wards more than you can. (Number one annoyance: Your mid lane demanding that you buy their wards for them. Lol no mate, jog on.) [/quote] Gold/5 items man. That and you farm the shit out of a lane when your carry goes back.[/quote]

[quote=Mazuran][quote=Lugignaf] Gold/5 items man. That and you farm the shit out of a lane when your carry goes back. [/quote] I know, I know. Just a pet peeve is all. I don't begrudge buying the wards, after all the carry has got to finish their build ASAP.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Just ignore anyone who builds AP on Taric. Cuz dey bad.[/quote]

[quote=Yukimaru]The only support i play is Soraka, and i adapt to the enemy Team, after my 3 main items, HoG, Pihlo and Kages and CDRBoots. Now there are a few other points, ofc i ward, im not the warding maniac who buys like 5 Wards everytime he comes back to base, but Oracle is a different Story: Personally i think the Tank is 9001% more suited for the Oracle, hes tanky, he dies less, he shouldnt get focused from the Enemy Team...if the Enemy team has a stealth hero its even more stupid to let the Support buy a Oracle, you want the Enemy to focus the Tank, and Oracle is a reason that you focus that one Hero more over the other Hero, cuz they used 400 Gold. Ok back to topic, as i said after my core it depends on the Enemy team, if they have a fiddlesticks i always get aegis, if they are more AoE heavy i get Aegis and in most of the cases Shurelias cuz of nasty no skill combos like Galio+Gankplank+some other AoE shit. If they have more single-target burst i build a Mejai and later a Deathcap, Soraka ult heal 1k, Soraka normal heal 600-800, compared to her 400+some Ap 500 AoE heal and 300+some AP 400 single target heal, it DOES makes a difference. Soraka has epic AP ratios, so why not building AP for her heals? Enemy focusing down your carry? No problem no problem you heal him full(if u build AP), the Nerfs on her are still so unneeded because what she gives you in defense she lacks in offense. So short story long: If the Situation calls it, i play Soraka on AP because its just a waste to dont go AP~ ofc not full AP, but a Deathcap+some other AP items is alrdy enough to make it count. so Soraka build: Philo Stone HoG&kages, preffering kages if i can CDR Boots Either Aegis of the Legion or Mejais, depends on Enemy team Either Shurelias or Deathcap depends on Enemy team Deathfire grasp EDIT: Ah i also ignore all the People who say AP on Support (with good Ratios) is bad. Its just because of the current Meta, so doing something thats not the norm is bad. I mean, in the before the AD+Support meta began, if u picked soraka "OMG OMG SORAKA AUTOLOSE" now sustained nerf. Evejungle got discovered, Eve nerf shortly after, before that "OMG OMG EVE AUTOLOSE" and so on~ EDIT²: Oh and also, wards are overrated if the Enemy Team is smart, even without Oracle, and they are even more overrated if the Enemy buys perma oracle, except maybe 4 Spots (baron+dragon+2 other River entrances OR if u push 2 offense wards OR if u def 2 defense wards~)[/quote]

[quote=Freddy Shopan][list] [*]If the other team has oracles, put wards in places with slightly less sight, but are harder to find. [*]Supports are viable to carry oracles because they are still not as important to kill as carries, and still stand in the back [*]When people say that a certain build is bad (ex AP Support) they ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT META. [/list] In more depth: About wards when the other team has an oracles, though, you can often get away with wards in slightly odd positions. Even though they have less sight, they often survive long enough. And wards are not overrated if the enemy team is smart. Just make sure they don't see you place it, so they have to guess on its location. It also lets you play more aggressively when you have vision. As far as who gets oracles, I'd still maintain that the support is a viable option to carry it. In positioning, the supports are usually one of the hardest characters to kill, and they aren't focused by a good team, either (the carries are). Obviously, they will focus you harder if they see you have an oracles, but they still have to run through your team to get to you, and if they waste effort on you, your carries will blow them up. And AP on Support IS BAD in the current meta. When we say that some kind of character is bad, we are talking about the current meta. Obviously, the meta changes, but right now it doesn't make sense to build AP on support. The cost is too high, and the minion kills would be better on your carries.[/quote]

[quote=beeread]"Now there are a few other points, ofc i ward, im not the warding maniac who buys like 5 Wards everytime he comes back to base, but Oracle is a different Story: Personally i think the Tank is 9001% more suited for the Oracle, hes tanky, he dies less, he shouldnt get focused from the Enemy Team...if the Enemy team has a stealth hero its even more stupid to let the Support buy a Oracle, you want the Enemy to focus the Tank, and Oracle is a reason that you focus that one Hero more over the other Hero, cuz they used 400 Gold." This is a valid point, on paper being tanky means you will die less, but in games what really happens is that the tank has to initiate the fight if no one else can, and the tank has to soak up the damage (if he can tank effectively) which brings him down to critical health. The reason tanks normally don't get oracles in high level play is that the tanks do their jobs and actually tend to die more than most on the team. In IEM most if not all games the support player bought the oracles. The reason support takes the oracles in my belief is because they are the busy work role, they are walking around warding so why not check for wards while your team is farming. As a good support you should have no deaths, or at least aim to have at the least 2 deaths when you dont have flash up. "Oh and also, wards are overrated if the Enemy Team is smart, even without Oracle, and they are even more overrated if the Enemy buys perma oracle, except maybe 4 Spots (baron+dragon+2 other River entrances OR if u push 2 offense wards OR if u def 2 defense wards~)" Wards win games =/ "If the other team has oracles, put wards in places with slightly less sight, but are harder to find. Supports are viable to carry oracles because they are still not as important to kill as carries, and still stand in the back When people say that a certain build is bad (ex AP Aupport) they ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT META" -As time passes people will catch on to sneaky places and eventually you will just ward where you originally warded. -You dont get as much gold from supports as carries per se but people in all levels still focus the support, its really all about positioning and knowing if the team can actually reach you with flash/any other teleport ability -If you want to build AP play an AP carry =/ if you want to take farm pick a character who can put out damage rather than mediocre versitility. Only support out of the best 5 who can use farm well is soraka (ofc people being stupid doesn't apply to this as i've played many sona games building ap going over 10:1 K:D, any good person who plays [hard to come by] will deny your farm and suffocate you; unless you have another support watching you to heal etc. which is why ranged ad go bot because they have the hardest time farming without any backup which is why the current meta exists and existed in other moba games).[/quote]