My Swain guide..could probably use some help

[quote=Kamikaze]Ok, so, I posted my guide for Swain a couple days ago and I just feel like it could use something...more. I don't know what it is, but it just feels incomplete somehow. Now it is still a work in progress as every guide should be and I know there are a couple things I need to or that I should work on. Adding screenshots to show the ranges for his abilities as well as the radius for his snare is something I am planning on doing that I just haven't gotten around to yet. I just feel like I'm missing something terribly important. I've read [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/build-and-guide-discussion/jhoijhois-guide-to-making-a-guide-7594]Jhoijhoi's guide[/url] (I really appreciate it :)) and already made numerous changes, but I don't feel that it's enough. Let me know what you think. I appreciate any input as long as it's constructive! ;)[/quote]

[quote=Searz]This is kinda advertising. Please ask a specific question.[/quote]

[quote=Kamikaze]Ok Searz, you got it. Take a quick look at my item build. I start with [[amplifying tome]] and a [[health potion]] and start off by rushing a [[hextech revolver]]. I'm the only person that I've ever seen do this on Swain. It's worked great for me and I'm just afraid some people might get scared away from my build by seeing something completely different. So in short, I guess, do you agree with my item build?[/quote]

[quote=Searz]I'd say rushing ROA is better than Revolver. More mana=better lane.[/quote]

[quote=Kolraider][quote=Kamikaze] Ok Searz, you got it. Take a quick look at my item build. I start with [[amplifying tome]] and a [[health potion]] and start off by rushing a [[hextech revolver]]. I'm the only person that I've ever seen do this on Swain. It's worked great for me and I'm just afraid some people might get scared away from my build by seeing something completely different. So in short, I guess, do you agree with my item build? [/quote] Wtf. Flash + ignite. AP mid should often buy boots + 3 potions. Max E and Q, one point on W is enough. Harass with E+Q or E+W+Q+R and you should kill him. Buy ROA, Rabadon deathcap and Rilay's. Later, you can get Spirit visage or WotA.[/quote]

[quote=Kamikaze]Searz, I then follow Hextech Revolver up with a Tear of the Goddess and eventually an Archangel's to help with his mana issues. The whole RoA/Rylai's/Spirit Visage build is decent, but that's not the point of the build. Swain doesn't need more health or regen. He can be an AP carry with double the survivability without building AP-tanky. The more damage he does the more health he gains. Overall survivability should be about even between the two builds, carry and off-tank, but with more damage in the former. Imo of course. Saying I'm wrong is always an option, but this is just what I've seen.[/quote]

[quote=Maphis]I don't agree with your item build, you should be rushing RoA on him because you can't get away with glass canon Swain his burst isn't high enough for that and you need to be up close in order to do your damage. My preferred build on Swain is: Start: Boots + 3 health pot. 1st back: Catalyst. After that rush RoA then get deathcap if your doing really well. If you're not doing so well get get chain armor or negatron cloak depending on your opponents team comp and build that into abysal scepter or zhonya's respectively. After either of these items get deathcap. Boots just are to good to not pick up at the start, you can avoid harras, zone better and harras better. Also the 3 health pots allow you to stay in lane way longer. You need catalyst to survive your lane, later on you build it into RoA because swain benefits from every stat it gives. Only pick up deathcap if your doing well because if you get dominated as Swain it's really easy to snowball negatively. There are some other minor gripes. You didn't mention that Swain NEEDS blue buff, he is just to weak a champ without it. I never pick Swain if we got another champion that needs it like Brand or fiddle jungle, this is something that needs to be said. I'm not to sure of your skill order, I usually lvl W over Q since you usually wont be able to get a full duration Q off. Also shorter CD on W is awesome cause it's Swain's best cc. Spell combo; I usually slow someone with Q then W and land E before W's damage triggers followed up by my R. This way your sure you can land your W and you get the max damage out of the amplification effect of your E. The option of building merc threads on Swain, trust me it's so good on him since you need to be up close to do your damage and you will likely be slowed. Other then that I like your guide but you're not right in your assumption that pure AP swain is better then tanky Swain, any half decent team will just focus you and kill you instantly no amount of sustain will stop that. Swain needs to be up close to do the most of his damage and you can't do that when your building glass canon. I'm not an expert on swain so if you got counterarguments to this feel free to bring them up it's just that these are the gripes I have with your build. If I see these problems in your guide other people will see them as well so you better change things or defend them better.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Erm.. Tear is bloody useless on Swain. You can't really spam any of your spells (no, you do not gain mana from using your ult).[/quote]

[quote=Kamikaze]Ok ok, I can see your guys points. Gimme some time to try out all of your suggestions and I'll get back to you. And thank you for the upvote Maphis :). I'll definitely be making some changes to the guide. Though that won't be until late tonight as I'm working all day today =/[/quote]

[quote=Kolraider]Swain makes tons of damage in one target (spell E) without much ap damage (remember torment). That's why he is built by a offtank build, RoA and Rilay's. Let's go for some maths; All abilities at lv 5; (235+(80%AP)+85+(30%AP)+90+(20%))+20% It seems he doesn't need much ap to own. Swains doesn't need tear because he gets blue buff. Tear is only viable in caster who can spam abilities, as Karthus or Cassiopea but it doesn't mean that they NEED it. I shouldn't buy WotA, get better spirit visage which gives you more heal, mag rest, hp and more cheaper l0lz. I usually play Swain because he can deny other casters and his AA is very fast. Start with boots + 3 pots, later go for RoA. If you are doing it good, go for Rabadon, but if you are focused all time, get Spirit visage + Rilay's. Get this runes; Marks = mag pen // Seals = manareg/lb // Glyphs = ap/lb // Esences = AP flat[/quote]