Xenasis
<Member>
<Member>
JunSupport wrote:
Just going to answer the silly stuff:
Irelia is about as strong as she was on release at the moment - Riot was just waiting for the community to smarten up and realize it, because it seemed no one was willing to learn her.
That's not Riot going back on intentions. They're being patient.
You have me mistaken. I meant those nerfs that were supposed to come when Morde got killed, the ones that were completely unnecessary when she was fine. She didn't get nerfed in the end despite Morello stating she definitely would. Surely you've seen that "Better nerf Irelia" comic strip?
I could think of lots more examples, too, but I'm sure that cleared it up.
JunSupport wrote:
So wrong.
Killing jungle creeps NEVER required skill. It's what you do after that requires skill. Creeps are easy, it just needed the right runes - Which was dumb to begin with, cause people below level30s couldn't even practice.
The current jungle did not change that. Killing creeps is still easy. It's not easier, does not require less skill. It does not take skill to plug in the right runes and attack away.
Yes it did. Jungling isn't just about killing creeps, if you seriously believe that then you're as deluded as you made out to be. Take, for example, counter jungling. An element of jungling that required skill. Counter jungling (at least in high elo play) was a HUGE part of jungling, and required an incredible amount of skill to pull off successfully. Also, killing creeps by pressing buttons didn't take skill, though picking the correct route for the correct circumstance did. Now, you can ONLY do the aggressive route, pretty much. One route. No choice, no deviation.
Regarding runes, it really didn't just mean you picked up runes and hit things. It took a decent amount of knowledge to truly shine when it comes to masteries/runes. You either picked Transitional or Focussed. You can figure out what each do. Picking the right one in the right circumstance did take skill. You can't do that in the new jungle, you faceroll creeps with any runes on.
This change, though not directly effecting junglers, did DRAMATICALLY nerf ganking and control junglers, since the jungle's made for farming junglers, the only two elements that DID require skill are WORSE.
JunSupport wrote:
What's new (or intended to be at least) is that creeps respawn faster, while giving adequate farm.
Right now it's not - That's why you THINK it's forcing you into passive play. That's Riot's fault with the numbers, nothing more.
No I'm not. When it does, and the creeps do give you more gold, you sit in the jungle and farm to get that gold. As I said, indirectly nerfing ganking and control junglers.
JunSupport wrote:
The adequate farm makes you choose: Gank now? or Keep farming?
"Right now" - The jungle (as I said) is screwed up on the numbers. So you can't get a good enough rate of farm/exp going to choose to gank.
But if it were working properly - Then it does take more skill.
The skill required to choose between ganking or farming when both are good options - That's real skill right there.
Indeed it is. Though before, you had the option of ganking, counter jungling, or farming. Choosing from three things is harder than choosing from two. Don't say you only ever ganked when jungle creeps were down in the old jungle, too. You'd be braindead ******ed to do so, and also made junglers who DID only ever gank when their creeps were down worse than people who're better. Take (pre-nerf) Nunu, for example. Any Nunu that sat in their jungle and farmed all day and only ever counter jungled/ganked when their creeps were down would've been ******ed.
JunSupport wrote:
Lastly, YES, Riot wants the jungle to be more passive. If the above explanation works, then (random) 50% of junglers will choose to keep farming.
But guess what that means? 8D
So having a jungle where people sit and kill creeps is GOOD?
JunSupport wrote:
Lanes will be more aggressive. That's 4 laners (doesn't matter which side) that will be choosing to be more aggressive once people figure out that Junglers are more passive. 4 Lanes with more aggressive plays is better then 1 aggressive jungler that pretty much controls the flow of the game. (It is not the Jungler's role to control the flow of the game. I read a Riot Red explicitly describe a jungler's role, and that's not part of it)
The potion nerf was part of this - People more willing to take the offensive because they know their damage won't disappear with pots.
For one, lanes are always kept warded. Mid is the only lane that, past early game, needed to watch out for ganks by the jungler. For two, only a very experienced jungler could control a game, as you put it, though no more than a bottom lane that play extremely well can. As we all know, a farmed, 4/0 Vayne (for example) by 20 minutes is usually gg.
Lanes aren't more aggressive. The only thing that did change it was potions, not jungle changes. As an example, nobody thinks "Oh, bottom lane's getting a kill, I better teleport right on down there and stop that" as a jungler, they instead think "Oh, bottom lane's pushed, looks like an easy kill!". Now, it doesn't take a mastermind to know that junglers stop people from farming or snowballing rather than getting kills. All this means is that the game is more of a farm fest because nobody's there to stop them.
JunSupport wrote:
This will accentuate lane aggression and force the lower (not low, just lower) ELO communities to pay more attention to lane match-ups. They can't just take any champion they want and grab Boots + Potions.
They'll actually have to start learning "This champion bad vs that champions" because potions won't be an end-all item that smooths out any problems they have against bad match-ups. The "bad"-ness of the match-up will show more.
See above. Also, people don't buy boots and potions mainly for the potions, it's the boots that's the main part. Boots aren't a "do all end all" item, they DON'T smooth out match ups. Most people mid grab boots and potions, bar Gragas and Ryze, who start with a Doran's and Mana crystal unless in odd circumstances, respectably. If you buy boots, you don't get an advantage over someone who also has boots. Top lane's another story - Cloth Armour and potions, Regeneration Pendant, etc, are all good items, buying boots when it calls for Cloth Armour won't give you an advantage. As for bottom lane, the AD can either get a Doran's and hit hard, or boots if they require movement or aren't with a healer.
The only lane you ever pick boots because of who you're against in is top lane. Rare cases mid lane if you're Gragas or Ryze, too. And you don't pick it because it's a godlike combination that "smooths out" everything, you could use that argument for Infinity Edge on AD carries, saying that they'd be fine with a BT, but an IE smooths out their lack of skill, which is a ridiculous argument. You'd be considerably better counter picking. If you use that as a trade off for counter picking then you're stupid. Nobody thinks "Well I could pick Teemo to counter pick Renekton, but I'll just pick Tryndamere instead and start with boots", when it clearly calls for Cloth Armour. If they think that then they shouldn't be carried to high Elo anyway, they deserve to be there.
JunSupport wrote:
And I think all of this is fantastic.
Wow someone's idiotic. Think it through before jumping to conclusions, or reading what Riot says and believing it as the ultimate truth.
CelticChampion
<Member>
<Member>
Summoners,
Based on your feedback, we have made some changes to the jungle [to clarify, these changes are LIVE on North America]. See below for the release notes:
Increased total base Health in the jungle a bit, focusing on the larger monsters. This is to help accommodate single-target focused junglers.
Increased base Damage in the jungle a bit. This is to add some additional counter-jungling danger, as well as making sustain-based junglers, such as Warwick or Fiddlesticks, fill their specific niche again.
Increased Experience rewards of the jungle, both base and scaling. Simply put, this should make sure the jungler stays somewhere between the solo and duo lanes in most cases, as opposed to closer to the duo lane.
Reduced the Health scaling on the small golem camp. This is to adjust the difficulty/reward ratio on these monsters as the game goes on.
Moved around Gold and Experience rewards so that the Blue Wraith, the Giant Wolf, and the Medium Golem give a higher percentage of the reward for defeating their camp. This is a specific change to increase the viability of counter-jungling. Stealing big monsters will be more impactful.
Monsters now will start to accumulate more reward if they remain idle on the map for a certain amount of time. While we like there to be tradeoffs between ganking and farming, this should somewhat reduce the penalty of failed ganks and reward successful ganks more. Additionally, counter-junglers can steal these monsters and reset their “bank” of additional rewards.
We will continue to monitor the jungle changes, but please give these a try and see if they improve your experience. We’d like to thank everyone for their discussion and feedback on the new jungle. Everyone’s detailed feedback has helped us to continue making changes aimed at meeting our long-term gameplay goals while making your experience better.
Happy ganking! This is what Morello posted in LoL forums.
Based on your feedback, we have made some changes to the jungle [to clarify, these changes are LIVE on North America]. See below for the release notes:
Increased total base Health in the jungle a bit, focusing on the larger monsters. This is to help accommodate single-target focused junglers.
Increased base Damage in the jungle a bit. This is to add some additional counter-jungling danger, as well as making sustain-based junglers, such as Warwick or Fiddlesticks, fill their specific niche again.
Increased Experience rewards of the jungle, both base and scaling. Simply put, this should make sure the jungler stays somewhere between the solo and duo lanes in most cases, as opposed to closer to the duo lane.
Reduced the Health scaling on the small golem camp. This is to adjust the difficulty/reward ratio on these monsters as the game goes on.
Moved around Gold and Experience rewards so that the Blue Wraith, the Giant Wolf, and the Medium Golem give a higher percentage of the reward for defeating their camp. This is a specific change to increase the viability of counter-jungling. Stealing big monsters will be more impactful.
Monsters now will start to accumulate more reward if they remain idle on the map for a certain amount of time. While we like there to be tradeoffs between ganking and farming, this should somewhat reduce the penalty of failed ganks and reward successful ganks more. Additionally, counter-junglers can steal these monsters and reset their “bank” of additional rewards.
We will continue to monitor the jungle changes, but please give these a try and see if they improve your experience. We’d like to thank everyone for their discussion and feedback on the new jungle. Everyone’s detailed feedback has helped us to continue making changes aimed at meeting our long-term gameplay goals while making your experience better.
Happy ganking! This is what Morello posted in LoL forums.
Press that +Rep button to help a pal out =3
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If you successfully gank the bank should triple, if you miss you should get no gold or experience 60 seconds. THAT would encourage aggressive play.
Looooool that would made things so unbalanced. Get few successful ganks=half build done in 15min, while failing few ganks makes you like AFK for 5 min.