..and i thought i was ad carrying...good read, thanks

It's a team combination and I can see it working. It is a bit taboo to try to talk about the ever shifting metagame but I like your simplification of a team designed around protecting one person at 3 stages. It's an interesting thought perhaps even and oversimplification but still interesting reading. You got my +1 because if anything the team sounds like fun.

I tested it several times with adding ranged DPS champion, and at some points many of you were right, not at each, but at some. Changed few things.

The score is getting too high.

I don't want people to actually think this could be a legitimate game strategy when it clearly is not.

The only reason this would ever beat a meta team is because the players aren't experienced against it...not because it is better (yes there is a big difference).

It may work at low levels of play...doesn't mean it is viable.

No, just no. This guide has some good points, but the rest is wrong. The metagame is there because it works, not because some freaking top player says "lets do it like this". I dont know how many games did you played already, but from my experiences (that is over 1200 normal and almost 300 ranked games) metagame team wins 90% games against anti-meta team. Im talking about at least average players in both teams, who know how to farm, how to ward, how not to die like nubcakes etc. Of course, if metagame team consist from unskilled players you can beat them with almost everything.

Now just few points I have noticed through your guide.

1) Few spelling mistakes. Its not that bad, but there are still there. (On the other hand, I have read my guide dozens of time and I have there spelling mistakes too).

2) "Jungle is for good early-game champions that can gank well." What about Amumu? If you take his first blue, he is way behind and will have very hard game. But late game, he is awesome tank, because his ulti wins teamfights. Every champion shines in some stage of game, you cant just say that jungle is for champ X and Y and Z is bad there.

3) Team without tank lose. If you take team A with tank and team B without him, team A wins most games. Im mean pure tank, not some off-tank. Tank is very important part of team and if you dont have him, you will have hard times. Its pretty ok, if not even one of the teams has him, but in case some team has him, the up written applies.

4) I dont agree that early game is carried by jungler, mid game by AP etc. In some team compositions maybe, but mostly no. It is hand in hand with my point 2). Some champion shines early game, some champion shines mid game, some champion shines late game. Lets just look at few examples:

Jax: early = sucks, mid = getting ok, late = wins game
Xin Zhao: early = shines, mid = if get some kill in early ok, if not - bad, late = no kills = useless, with kills = kamikaze initiator
Cho'Gath: early = average, mid = ok, late = unkillable

And I can continue long time, I hope you got the point. Every champion is different, even if we can see some patterns for this early/mid/late game usefullnes (dunno if this <- world exists).

5) Every champion is gold dependant. No gold = no items = no kills. Infinite circle. Even that support, who is underrated like hell in eyes of some ppl needs gold to buy wards.

6) "Toplane where is put weak solo-lane champion, that can't farm and needs help a lot." Example? Just curious.

7) "Midlane where is put a champion that can easily escape a gank (midgame is safiest lane of all)." I will write again what you wrote MIDLANE IS THE SAFEST LANE. What??? Count how many access routes lead to mid lane. Can we? 2 from river, 2 from "my" jungle, 2 from "your" jungle. That is 6 access routes not counting the lane alone. Top and bottom lane access routes: 1 from river, 2 routes from jungle (behind turrets), that is 3 total, not counting lane alone.

6 access routes is way more than 3 access routes so the mid lane is deffinitely not the safest lane...but the most dangerous one. In better case you need one ward into river brush to cover your farming and moving to one side of your lane (the warded one ofc), or in worst case if the have fast moving jungler Rammus you need two wards in every river brush.

8) Every tank HAS some offensive ability and their damage IS NOT so important. If you compare AD carry late game damage and tank damage, its like 100% and 10% (maybe less). Tank is there to soak damage, protect his carries, not to dish some damage out (ofc i.e. Rammus ulti gives pretty nice damage and you dont have to buy any AP, same with Amumu ulti, Malphite ulti, Maokai and dozens of otthers tanks).

9) Game is (mostly) not carried by ONE champion. Lets take model situation. Im playing my favourite jungler Nocturne, with Brand at mid lane vs Cassiopea. Ok? This can happen pretty often and its nothing vs nothing, its just okay. Now imagine I gang mid lane and we manage to kill that Cassiopea. Now. If I get the kill, I can buy some item, but the benefit is worse than if I give that kill to Brand. Why? Because he is in advantage now. He has 300 more golds than Cass and if both players are skilled in some same level, more gold wins. Right? The conclusion is, I can go gang top or bot lane, because I know Brand is in advantage now and until he gets ganged (but he can buy wards now, cause he has more gold) he should be just fine to at least hold his lane until I come for gang again.

This works exactly the same for every lane. If you come there, score few kills and give them to your laners, they will have advantage. If they have advantage, they can dominate their lane.

10) Riven and Leona bot. Lol. Sorry, but...this doesnt work. Few days ago I have played ranked solo game. I was playing Caitlyn (yes, Im playing the boring farming bot lane, 100 CS below 15 minute is just too awesome for me) with some random guy playing Soraka supporting me and we were playing against Anivia and Amumu. They were premade! And the result? I farmed, farmed, farmed and they did me actualy nothing. I went back for my first buy a bit sooner (mostly I go with 2K+ golds for T1 boots and BF), to pick boots and Vampiric scepter and the result? Super slow Anivia ice ball was dodged easily, hiding behind minions made Amumu stun useless. We won this game, cause this guys coudnt farm, coudnt harass, coudnt heal. That was like training game for farming with two annoying bots (nothing personal).

If I take your "strong kill botlane" Riven and Leona...I take Caitlyn again with Soraka (or Alistar in case we dont have tank at solo or in jungle) and now imagine how the game will look like. For every minion they will go in, they got AA hit. I can easily hide behind my minions making Leona stun useless (she can stun my minion and that is deffinitely OP but totally useless) and if Riven starts to jump in, should I be scared? No, E to jump away, Q to make her pay and bye bye.

11) Wriggles Lantern is ok item, I build it some games even with AD carry when I have tough lane (vs Graves), free ward, armor, lifesteal, too good to overlook.

12) Antimeta vs metagame teamfight. Yes, maybe. Antimeta can win, if the metateam sucks. Lets take your team and "my" team". So it is:

Hecarim solo
Vladimir mid
Leona bot
Riven bot
Nocturne jungle

VS

Ashe bot
Alistar bot
Brand mid
Maokai jungle
Renekton solo

Leona initiates with her ulti locking down Ashe. Thats what you wrote. I doubt that. She will dive 5 man team to hit carry hiding behind her whole team? No.

Riven will initiate? How? She cant.

Hecarim will initiate? Yes, I can imagine his ulti jumping it followed with Leona ulti.

Vladimir will initiate? Hardly.

Nocturne will initiate with ulti? Even if he manages to see whole enemy team (ok, CV is for that). He dives 5 man team and...die. Gj Noct.

Now how will metateam react to this initiation? Ashe ulties and stun Hecarim. She is still hidden behind her team, so she is totally save. Maokai goes in with his initial move (snare if Im correct) and Hecarim is locked away from his team dying in few seconds cause he gets focused by whole team.

Look on the other side, how will metagame team initiate? The answer is so simple: Ashe ulti. Stun something (ANYTHING). Maokai goes in, snare, pop up ulti to cover his team. Brand sends out his super ulti damaging whole enemy team and stunning someone. Renekton goes in, stunning another one dealing massive damage. Ashe just staying behind and "right click to win". What about Alistar? Stayes like 3 centimetres (or 1 inch, doesnt matter) from Ashe and waits. For what? Until someone from enemy team dives in and he just pop him in air and blowing him away. Ashe is protected and can dish out her super damage. I have played several games with my brother who plays Alistar and he plays exactly like I wrote few words back.

13) If you dont have AD carry you are missing one important thing. You cant attack defended turrets. Imagine just 3 v 3 at mid lane. Ashe, Brand and Maokai vs Vladimir, Nocturne and Hecarim (for example). The ppl keep moving to avoid some hits, but Ashe can come closer, hit turret, go back, go closer, hit turret, go back and again and again. And you can do...? Nothing. Because if you want to hurt or kill her, you have to go out from your turret range (=safety) and risk getting killed.

14) I can bet this will not win against meta. If you have same experienced players (no trolls, feeders, nubcakes etc.) meta wins, 90% games.

So some conclusion. Im not gonna vote here. I cant give you +1 because I dont agree with stuff written in, but I cant give you -1, because downvoting for different opinion is just wrong. +rep, ok?

EDIT: spelling mistakes...

as I said, I'm prepared for discussion, especially from meta-fans.
But pelase guys - don't judge concept you haven't seen.

Because this one, never lost to any meta setup so far, and have seen such-like setup around 20 times.
Everything after such guide-makers as Duff. Where concept is different, and some people started to consider things. Now I can see the concept more frequently, more and more.
Played it like 40 times.

Never lost.

And Pelikins, you've got caught in my trap, I don't talk to elo maniacs, and my little trap worked.
"you might want to break 1300 elo before" - I don't have to, believe me =)
You will never be able to check MY account. =)

I also like how people theoretize about things they never checked on their own at least 5 times.
I've checked - Leona/Riven works, you just say "if", "would".
I've checked - Such setup totaly destroys meta, you say "if", "would"

If team can kill damage dealers in less than second (and THIS team does), the metagame looses.



Joseph Pilsudzki said once: "The right is like an a*s - everyone has his own",
And that's why I'm not gonna argue with you, you got own point of view, that's cool.
I hope others could open their minds, because it's too easy to break current meta with such setup.

Yet another impressive guide...

will give it a shot

Good guide, though hecarim belongs in jungle, he excels in jungle.
Max W first while getting Q at level 1. Gank at level 3 after getting E.
Note that hecarim is not very good early jungle, he can clear the whole jungle and gank once, but then his hp will drop dramatically with the Cloth Armor + 5 Health Potions combo.

So what you're saying is your 5 off tanks will jump on say.. Caitlyn and one hit her? Cool, cool, there goes some of their damage. What happens when their AP carry such as Ziggs decides to start laying down some AOE damage while you're being suppressed by their top lane/support? You should rename this to How To Kill An AD Ranged. It's not breaking the META, it's just ending your game quickly in the enemy's favor, the meta is there because it works. And
When it stops working there will be a new one.

As for your Riven Leona combo...

Your support/tank bottom should be in front of the Ranged AD, not letting it get hit. So sure, Riven and Leona could jump on... Alastar? Blitzcrank? You'd just end up suppressed while the AD auto attacks you to death.

Edit: Also,
Your plan is to play 5 off tanks with gap closers? Hello Thornmail.

LOL! Wow dude...

Ok this might work in normal games and low ELO games. Tanky dps does have an advantage at that level of play as AD carries don't know how to position while supports don't know how to ward.

BUT IN HIGH ELO, THIS WILL NEVER WORK!

You seriously might want to try to break 1300 ELO before you try to break the META.

This is not about full DPS is better or tanky DPS. It's all the way DIFFERENT.

If 5, beefy duelists jump on squishy "AD carry" from meta, no force can save him.
Literally, no force.

I've played such setup several times, and mostly, their "carries" couldn't carry the game.
They died JUST on burst, mostly not even from all 5 bursts, not even talking about post-burst dps.

No matter how much damage the target has. As long as 5 beefy mofos jump on him, with high burst, cc, and sustainable damage, all his damage is useless. No sorakas can save him from that, no cc can save him from that. It's just unbearable.

Or... take kayle, soraka, zilean, yoric, and buy Quicksilver Sash and Guardian Angel.

Oh wait... it wouldn't be "meta" then...



And what's funny. "AD carry" wouldn't even be able to finish Infinity Edge on strong destroyer lane. Where are Phantom Dancer and Lastwhisper? And where are defensive items?

Ranged ADs have strong disadvantage. Without offensive gear they have no damage. Without defensive they can be taken down fast. All offtanks are champions that don't need much gear as they are naturally tanky and deal high damage.

This is the concept. Make their carry either useless because of no damage, or kill him because of no defense.

And believe me, nobody can protect you from 5 gapclosers with CC. Nobody.