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from watching pro livestreams, if u have a nice premade team, pre-laning 5-man jungle gank is mandatory every game against junglers.
for example, against someone like WW, golem buff gank is a must. whereas shaco you should be ganking at lizard more often than at golem in higher elos.
2 of the things u said about dont post is very important. for one, ur own jungler is excellent counter to the enemy's jungler because it sets the playing field even because ganking by both sides is possible at any times.
for warding, warding is a must, i recommend do not put a ward in the side bush though at the river. by the time the enemy champion comes, its kinda bit late. i suggest further inwards to spot them earlier and cover multiple exit points. warding in the middle of river makes sure the enemy jungler doesnt steal ur buffs without u noticing.
lastly, master last hitting and lane control strategies. if u accidently push a bit too far, kill all the minions as quickly as possible because that will push ur minions to their tower, getting them all killed, and reset the wave back in the middle of lane. also, another strategy could be kill as quickly as u can for every wave, with last hitting, when ur minions push close to ur enemy's tower just back off. ur not getting exp anyways. this way it reduces a lot of chances for enemy jungler to gank u.
for example, against someone like WW, golem buff gank is a must. whereas shaco you should be ganking at lizard more often than at golem in higher elos.
2 of the things u said about dont post is very important. for one, ur own jungler is excellent counter to the enemy's jungler because it sets the playing field even because ganking by both sides is possible at any times.
for warding, warding is a must, i recommend do not put a ward in the side bush though at the river. by the time the enemy champion comes, its kinda bit late. i suggest further inwards to spot them earlier and cover multiple exit points. warding in the middle of river makes sure the enemy jungler doesnt steal ur buffs without u noticing.
lastly, master last hitting and lane control strategies. if u accidently push a bit too far, kill all the minions as quickly as possible because that will push ur minions to their tower, getting them all killed, and reset the wave back in the middle of lane. also, another strategy could be kill as quickly as u can for every wave, with last hitting, when ur minions push close to ur enemy's tower just back off. ur not getting exp anyways. this way it reduces a lot of chances for enemy jungler to gank u.
PumpkinPie
<Member>
<Member>
hypershatter wrote:
2 of the things u said about dont post is very important. for one, ur own jungler is excellent counter to the enemy's jungler because it sets the playing field even because ganking by both sides is possible at any times.
Thank you for your post. I only added the 3 notes to try and persuade people to post anti-jungle ideas only. Often times we go into a game with no dedicated jungler (though we are working on it, I know from experience though the worst thing to do is play with an inexperienced jungler) and if we see that the opposing team has one we need cannot go back to champion select and choose a hero suited for it or grant that hero the smite ability. (we play unranked mainly, sorry if that discredits me further i have little experience with draft)
I only ask that when we enter a five versus five game with no jungler of our own. What to do? Instead of play standard 5v5 like the tards that we are.
P.S. Sorry if that sounded snide the warding advice was very good and will be exploited to the best of our abilities
As a jungler myself, I used know the pain of going into a 5v5 without a jungler and ending up hopelessly outleveled. My advice is to simply try and 3 man or 5 man gank them at blue or red buff, or wherever they're starting. Some teams also have a dedicated counter-jungler (POPPY) in addition to their regular jungler - you may want to try this too. As hypershatter said, though, warding is your best bet.
ok i see what you are getting at. i assume ur team uses vent or skype right? that should help you in what i am about to suggest.
I only ask that when we enter a five versus five game with no jungler of our own.
jungler would be best but if you dont have jungler there are tons of other strategies, especially since your team is premade and probably have decent communication. the thing with jungler ganking is, if he took a lot of dmg and fails to kill anyone, then he just wasted a ton of time and it would be consider a small victory if your team remains unharmed.
against a team that has a jungler, first we assume lanes should be top/bot solo, mid solo, and the other lane 2 people. this means, 1 of ur lanes will be 2v1. take advantage of this. even if you fight against good solo laners such as garen or mordekaiser, its 2v1 and most of the time you can push very hard and zone him/her out. choose characters with good support/pushing abilities like sona, taric, or janna and put them in the 2v1 lane along with ur carry. this way, ur support can harass while ur carry can farm with less pressure.
the only way you are going to get ganked by someone like udyr or WW is when ur losing 2v1 with 2 carries. then ofcourse you will get owned by a ganker with red buff. remember even with a jungler ganking you its still 2v2 unless mid comes, but ur mid should call out MIA. therefore, it is more likely that if the solo lane is doing well, the jungler will gank the 2v2 lane to make it 2v3. that is the lane that should be most careful. if your mid is getting ganked, usually by rammus, you should be able to live the first time easy if you have flash. dont chase too far, last hit, and there should be no problems. keep track of the jungler's level. remember a decent jungler should be around the same level as one of ur duo lane players (not ur solo player). overall just keep track of ur hp and mana, if they are low, rest assured the jungler will come for u.
the more advanced strategy that requires communication is 3+ man tower pushing. in this case, if one of ur enemy's team lane is empty or only guarded by a weak champ, then u should take advantage of this and get ur teammates all into one lane and break the tower asap. with proper timing you will succeed. most of the time, if ur 2v1 lane is doing well,that tower should be the first to go down. or, you can hard push mid, its much easier/closer for ur side lane buddies to help you.
PumpkinPie wrote:
I only ask that when we enter a five versus five game with no jungler of our own.
jungler would be best but if you dont have jungler there are tons of other strategies, especially since your team is premade and probably have decent communication. the thing with jungler ganking is, if he took a lot of dmg and fails to kill anyone, then he just wasted a ton of time and it would be consider a small victory if your team remains unharmed.
against a team that has a jungler, first we assume lanes should be top/bot solo, mid solo, and the other lane 2 people. this means, 1 of ur lanes will be 2v1. take advantage of this. even if you fight against good solo laners such as garen or mordekaiser, its 2v1 and most of the time you can push very hard and zone him/her out. choose characters with good support/pushing abilities like sona, taric, or janna and put them in the 2v1 lane along with ur carry. this way, ur support can harass while ur carry can farm with less pressure.
the only way you are going to get ganked by someone like udyr or WW is when ur losing 2v1 with 2 carries. then ofcourse you will get owned by a ganker with red buff. remember even with a jungler ganking you its still 2v2 unless mid comes, but ur mid should call out MIA. therefore, it is more likely that if the solo lane is doing well, the jungler will gank the 2v2 lane to make it 2v3. that is the lane that should be most careful. if your mid is getting ganked, usually by rammus, you should be able to live the first time easy if you have flash. dont chase too far, last hit, and there should be no problems. keep track of the jungler's level. remember a decent jungler should be around the same level as one of ur duo lane players (not ur solo player). overall just keep track of ur hp and mana, if they are low, rest assured the jungler will come for u.
the more advanced strategy that requires communication is 3+ man tower pushing. in this case, if one of ur enemy's team lane is empty or only guarded by a weak champ, then u should take advantage of this and get ur teammates all into one lane and break the tower asap. with proper timing you will succeed. most of the time, if ur 2v1 lane is doing well,that tower should be the first to go down. or, you can hard push mid, its much easier/closer for ur side lane buddies to help you.
PumpkinPie
<Member>
<Member>
Quoted:
the more advanced strategy that requires communication is 3+ man tower pushing. in this case, if one of ur enemy's team lane is empty or only guarded by a weak champ, then u should take advantage of this and get ur teammates all into one lane and break the tower asap. with proper timing you will succeed. most of the time, if ur 2v1 lane is doing well,that tower should be the first to go down. or, you can hard push mid, its much easier/closer for ur side lane buddies to help you.
Thank you thats some nice stuff. I have a good team working on skype they follow me around and run when I yell back, and make wisecracks when I get my *** handed to me. We have been having trouble with junglers as we have none of our own but do very well in standard 5v5, so I figured i should try some anti jungle before just jungling, we will get one as it will be nice change up from the standard 5v5 setup, but having an inexperienced person jungle is a disastrous I know from experience.
Also in hating out a solo lane you suggest support hero and carry go for it. So like ashe and rammus? or do we need a real support hero like taric or soraka. Or do you mean go over aggresive like having ashe (carry) and viegar (support/harras) and hope to get a kill/cripple the hero.
PumpkinPie wrote:
Also in hating out a solo lane you suggest support hero and carry go for it. So like ashe and rammus? or do we need a real support hero like taric or soraka. Or do you mean go over aggresive like having ashe (carry) and viegar (support/harras) and hope to get a kill/cripple the hero.
i meant a real support hero like taric or janna. they not only sustain lane, also saves the other champ very frequently from ganks. very aggressive doesnt work, especially having two characters that are dependent on farming. both veigar and ashe needs to last hit, they should not be in the same lane. also,against any decent player, going too aggressive in solo lane will just make the other team play defensive, if he/she played well, aggressiveness means nothing if they cant be hit, but leave u vulnerable to ganks and counter push.
it could work if u completely zone the solo lane out with 2 ranged or w.e champions. but that takes very good positioning and there should be counters to that. the minion will always be closer to the enemy's tower even if u only last hit. denying a solo side laner is difficult if players have equal skill level.
ExamplePrime
<Member>
<Member>
Ashe, Evelyn, Shaco, Malphite, Twitch and Poppy
All excellent at countering the jungle
The 3 stealth champions can search the jungle and simply shut the jungler down whenever they respawn or get low HP and you don't even need wards of Jack-in-the-boxes
Ashe has her hawkshot. She can scout the jungle and even scare people away when they realise that they might be ganked at any second
Malphite is good because he can quickly appear and chase someone down as well as being an anti-carry which is what almost Every jungler is making it hard for the jungler to kill him
Poppy also has high armour and her wall slam is easy to pull off in the jungle because of all the walls and her high burst damage will cripple a jungler fast so that at the least he has to blue pill
All excellent at countering the jungle
The 3 stealth champions can search the jungle and simply shut the jungler down whenever they respawn or get low HP and you don't even need wards of Jack-in-the-boxes
Ashe has her hawkshot. She can scout the jungle and even scare people away when they realise that they might be ganked at any second
Malphite is good because he can quickly appear and chase someone down as well as being an anti-carry which is what almost Every jungler is making it hard for the jungler to kill him
Poppy also has high armour and her wall slam is easy to pull off in the jungle because of all the walls and her high burst damage will cripple a jungler fast so that at the least he has to blue pill
Shameless plug: www.youtube.com/Exampleprime
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I play games, I write stories. And I make youtube videos that are way to long.
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I play games, I write stories. And I make youtube videos that are way to long.
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Sadly though a jungler has thrown a kink in our plans. Mid game sees our mid murdered and everyone huddling around towers as the gold fueled and experience heavy opposing team kills us and blows up towers at their leisure.
So, I ask how does one counter jungle?
-Please note: Do not post the following,
1. You Jungle!
2. You ward! (do post locations though)
3. You don't suck!
Now having stood on my podium i expect you to not follow the above note and post just that, followed by the word first and then possible a post that says nothing but balls over and over again
GO!