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Thornmail


Item

Thornmail

Summoner's Rift
Twisted Treeline
Howling Abyss

Total Price: 2350

Recipe Price: 1250


100 Armor. UNIQUE Passive: On being hit by standard attacks, returns 15% of damage taken (+0.25 of your bonus armor) before armor as magic damage. A minimum of 15 damage must be received.




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1
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MT KuPKaYk (1) | March 23, 2015 6:56pm
Janitsu wrote:

^No.

Thornmail is practically useless if you don't have enough health to back it up. Warmog's Armor is really bad item and shouldn't be built. Randuin's Omen is the best choice because of the passive and active.

I would disagree with everything you said. You are being very vague and ambiguous. Warmog's is a good item, and helps a lot in the tank department, but that aside, items are good based on situation. Warmog's is even better on champs who use health a a resource, and Thornmail is good for people who need an armor item, and want some damage output as well, especially since it's animation is less noticeable compared to say, Sunfire's cape. Randuin's is kind of flashy IMO, meaning it not so much a useful item(of course it is useful sometimes), but it has cool features. It's stats are ok tho, but aren't as good as other items.
also TM is easy to build and good for early game
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GGray2000 | March 19, 2014 5:56am
I play as nasus ALL the time and I main him. I always get thorn mail on him to go along with his tankyness. When I build it I also always get a warmogs and a spirit visage. Then I finish with a bloodthirster when I'm farmed well. Thornmail is normally a ok item but with this combo it's insane. The fact that warmogs is regening hp really fast and spirit visage is increasing that means I have even more hp they have to cut thought and so thorn does more dmg. The bloodthirster just makes it even better because every Q you hit not only does dmg but it gives hp that then does even more dmg as they try to burn throught your health. Along with spirt visage and nasus passive and runes nasus life steal is about 50% final build which is crazy! I think Thornmail is just amazing item for nasus and Rammus and mundo. It's a item that's for super tanky champs. It's personally my favorite item in the game as I love tanks. I don't get why everyone sees it as a useless item! It just needs to fit is a good tank build.
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Janitsu (499) | December 16, 2013 2:04pm
When I used to play TT on Plat level, I was usually against 2 ad / 1 ap comps, so I do agree with this. I still do think that Randuin's Omen or Sunfire Cape offer better survivability and/or utility.

But yeah, Thornmail might be at least decent item there.
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Nighthawk (677) | December 16, 2013 2:00pm
Janitsu wrote:

Thornmail is still pretty meh choice in TT or Dominion. Sure, it is somewhat good choice if you have health to it up with, but otherwise it's probably not wise to build it. (With some health, I mean around 3k hp). Dominion is quite different because of different items and different gain of money so I can't really say, but you probably can get Thornmail pretty early due to the increased gold gain.


Early resists are extremely important on both modes and Thornmail is a great item in that regard as it's very cheap. Physical comps are also much more common on TT and Dominion. Thornmail is a fine item there.
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Meiyjhe (523) | December 16, 2013 12:20pm
Warmogs and thornmail are neither bad items, just situational. Warmogs is great for champions that benefit the big amounts of HP (like Mundo or Shen), thornmail is great against an enemy team with a high amount of auto attack reliant champions (when taken in combination with health of course :P)
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Janitsu (499) | December 16, 2013 12:16pm
Warmog's is bad item compared to Randuin's Omen or Sunfire Cape or Spirit Visage which both give you some health and resists. I would never probably build it over those because Warmog's passive is rather useless while these three items give you better passives (unless you are Dr. Mundo lol) and/or better stats.

Thornmail is still pretty meh choice in TT or Dominion. Sure, it is somewhat good choice if you have health to it up with, but otherwise it's probably not wise to build it. (With some health, I mean around 3k hp). Dominion is quite different because of different items and different gain of money so I can't really say, but you probably can get Thornmail pretty early due to the increased gold gain.


EDIT: I could've used different words with the Warmog's Armor explanation. It really isn't a good item anymore because there are far better choices.
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Nighthawk (677) | December 16, 2013 12:11pm
warmogs is a bad item now? did i miss something?

also Thornmail is good on both TT and Dominion if you feel that you need some extra bulk.
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Janitsu (499) | December 16, 2013 12:09pm
bless u 2
1
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Bioalchemist (155) | December 16, 2013 12:06pm
pls jani.
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Janitsu (499) | December 16, 2013 12:01pm
^No.

Thornmail is practically useless if you don't have enough health to back it up. Warmog's Armor is really bad item and shouldn't be built. Randuin's Omen is the best choice because of the passive and active.
1
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Nyara (7) | December 16, 2013 11:45am
Thornmail is quite easy to build and comes from really cheap early items. Actually, it is a good item to have if the enemy is full AD or 4-1 AD/AP and its AP is usually a support or something like that. Also good if the unique treat of the enemy is a feed Yi or Caitlyin, or something like that and all the other members of the team aren't doing too much damage: it hard counters them really bad. Aside from that, Raduin is just superior in any other case as it gives more physical bulk and isn't that more expensive at all. Warmog + Thornmail hardcounters any heavy AD team, any.
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sirell (396) | December 15, 2013 11:25am
Wrath51 wrote:

So if im going as nautilus and being a tank jungler is thorn mail a good idea compared to randuins omen


Nope. Randuin's Omen is better, since Nautilus scales off HP and Thornmail is useless without proper hp anyway (usually 3K hp if possible).
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Wrath51 | December 15, 2013 10:58am
Kaemonarch wrote:

Not really BBerger...
Thornmail is in fact really imba, and it's not counterproductive, but all the way arround.

It does return the 30% of the damage before the damage mitigation (true story) and that is what makes it (imo) too hard to counter for ADs (specially on Tanks) and really hard to counter with lifesteal.

An example:
I'm Tryndamere, and I hit someone with Thormail for a 1.000 Raw Crit.
Thormail returns then to me 30% of that damage (300 damage) as Magic damage.
Then, the guy wearing Thormail reduces (for example) 50% of physical damage with his armor value, so I'm really only hitting him for 500 damage, while he returns 300 damage to me.
If I had 25% of lifesteal (a full charged Bloodthirster for example), I would be healing 25% of the 500 efective damage, healing back 125 HP; still getting efectively hurt 175 for every 500 damage I'm doing to that guy.

The real problem starts with tanks (or Armor Stacking people).
If my 1.000 damage was reduced by 75% by a Thornmail wearer; I would be making 250 damage (healing only 62 with a big 25% lifestealing ammount) for every 1.000 Raw Crit, while getting hurted by 300 Magic Damage.
Meaning that it costs me 238 HP to hurt 250 HP to a tank that has more HP than I do, even taking Lifestealing into account.

However, it's truth that the Magic Damage reflected can be reduced using Magic Resist (not counted on the examples) or that you can make a lower % of your total damage being reflected with Armor Penetration; but Thornmail is not a usless as you seem to think; and it's in fact more powerfull the most Armor/HP you have (and the wearer Magic Penetration helps; reason why Mordekaiser with MagicPen Boots/Scepter and Thornmail is so hard, also his shield reflects damage as if he was getting hit normally).

So it's not counterproductive against itself. You return the same damage to the attacker (no matter what Armor you have; since returns the freaking Raw Damage); and then reduces the damage by increasing your armor.
Imo, this item should be changed to return 50% of the real damage dealt or something like that; if a good tank gets it, AD can only hurt him (without suiciding) using a high combo of Lifesteal, Magic Resist and Armor Penetration (Last Whisker). Too expensive to counter an item that also gives survibality via increasing armor.


So if im going as nautilus and being a tank jungler is thorn mail a good idea compared to randuins omen
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Janitsu (499) | December 15, 2013 10:56am
Thornmail is good choice if enemies are AD based and you have enough health to pack it up. If you don't have much health and they don't rely on autoattacks you probably shouldn't get it.
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Bligen97 (31) | August 3, 2013 4:29am
what about shen? taunting multiple opponents so they all get damaged by the reflect too
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mathbrook (1) | February 4, 2013 6:25pm
I only see this working on Rammus since it stacks with his Defensive Ball Curl
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The Death Within (1) | December 10, 2012 12:06pm
Teyso wrote:

Does this return damage from Vayne's Silver Bolts?


yes, even though Vayne's Silver Bolts does 4/5/6/7/8% of the target's maximum health as bonus true damage and Thornmails dictates that it returns 30% of damage taken before armor as magic damage. True damage is still damage inflicted to the enemy, meaning the enemy will receive 30% of that true damage done too since it was done by a standard attack.
1
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Teyso (70) | November 4, 2012 11:19am
Does this return damage from Vayne's Silver Bolts?
1
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PsiGuard (880) | December 21, 2011 1:25am
nifflo wrote:

If I stack 2 Thornmail will I return 60% of the raw damage?

No.

That's why it says "UNIQUE PASSIVE." Unique passives and actives on items do not stack with each other.
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nifflo (2) | December 21, 2011 12:55am
If I stack 2 Thornmail will I return 60% of the raw damage?
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Kaemonarch (2) | August 28, 2011 9:08am
Not really BBerger...
Thornmail is in fact really imba, and it's not counterproductive, but all the way arround.

It does return the 30% of the damage before the damage mitigation (true story) and that is what makes it (imo) too hard to counter for ADs (specially on Tanks) and really hard to counter with lifesteal.

An example:
I'm Tryndamere, and I hit someone with Thormail for a 1.000 Raw Crit.
Thormail returns then to me 30% of that damage (300 damage) as Magic damage.
Then, the guy wearing Thormail reduces (for example) 50% of physical damage with his armor value, so I'm really only hitting him for 500 damage, while he returns 300 damage to me.
If I had 25% of lifesteal (a full charged Bloodthirster for example), I would be healing 25% of the 500 efective damage, healing back 125 HP; still getting efectively hurt 175 for every 500 damage I'm doing to that guy.

The real problem starts with tanks (or Armor Stacking people).
If my 1.000 damage was reduced by 75% by a Thornmail wearer; I would be making 250 damage (healing only 62 with a big 25% lifestealing ammount) for every 1.000 Raw Crit, while getting hurted by 300 Magic Damage.
Meaning that it costs me 238 HP to hurt 250 HP to a tank that has more HP than I do, even taking Lifestealing into account.

However, it's truth that the Magic Damage reflected can be reduced using Magic Resist (not counted on the examples) or that you can make a lower % of your total damage being reflected with Armor Penetration; but Thornmail is not a usless as you seem to think; and it's in fact more powerfull the most Armor/HP you have (and the wearer Magic Penetration helps; reason why Mordekaiser with MagicPen Boots/Scepter and Thornmail is so hard, also his shield reflects damage as if he was getting hit normally).

So it's not counterproductive against itself. You return the same damage to the attacker (no matter what Armor you have; since returns the freaking Raw Damage); and then reduces the damage by increasing your armor.
Imo, this item should be changed to return 50% of the real damage dealt or something like that; if a good tank gets it, AD can only hurt him (without suiciding) using a high combo of Lifesteal, Magic Resist and Armor Penetration (Last Whisker). Too expensive to counter an item that also gives survibality via increasing armor.
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BBerger (31) | August 27, 2011 4:38am
A little insight on this item:

It's counterproductive against itself. It reduces the damage you take, and of that damage you only fire back 30% as magic damage. This is useless on mages who wish to survive against attack damage carries, as they would likely already have invested in magic resist.

Superior (most of the times) items are Frozen Heart or Randuin's Omen, or Zhonya's Hourglass if you are a mage. Why? Because they are better at preventing the phsyical damage taken through their slow, and can't be countered by pure lifesteal.

Though it's your choice to take Thornmail, it's only viable against a glass-cannon setup.

Edit: I was unaware that the damage reflected is before damage migation, making this item a lot stronger on pure tanks. Though for any champion that does not have the skillset/health availible, any of previous mentioned items might still be worthwhile. Thank you for the info.