(Maybe?) Some Dominion problem

[quote=Luther3000][quote=JunSupport]^ Your typical inexperienced and misinformed first impression based on pubstomping~[/quote] Seriously, is that really necessary when he was agreeing with the majority of what you said? I agree with most of your posts, but you really come off as an asshole sometimes with all the sarcasm and vanity.[/quote]

[quote=Rudmed]Okay before this evolves further, take it to PMs. Now to the OP. I have noticed that AP champions that are cooldown reliant maybe even AD casters are not as effective as they are in SR. For example if I go AP [[Twisted Fate]], who relies on his cooldowns, I am able to burst one champion. Well everything is really fast pace, and skill dependant champions do not do as well. Now lets say I go AD [[Twisted]] my only cooldown is my [[pick a card]], which I only use for the stun or mana regen anyways. Otherwise, I'm an autoattack champion that is able to keep up with the fast pace action that occurs in Dominion. Now like caucheka said it is quite possible the other team blunders and fails to recover effectively. It is like a sport, if one team blunders and gets depressed and fails to recover then chances are it spirals out of control.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I do appreciate the Vets like Jhoi, and there's others as well. Didn't mean to insult all the MobaFire vets, my comment was directed solely towards Jun. And the reason I made that comment was because as it stands, we don't know anything about Jun. All I know is he's a vet, and he hasn't proven anything to anybody. To me it doesn't matter that he's a Vet, doesn't validate his opinion any more than mine. He could be a 2k player, he could be an 800 player. Nobody knows. *Shrug. I certainly don't care if the opinion of a question mark is different from my own, or what he thinks about me. This comment is just to express that I don't simply "Hate the vets." There's lots of good natured Moba Vets that I get along with well.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@Luther3000 and jhoijhoi: I was replying to his first post. He ninja'd a double post. :) So sorry if that wasn't clear - It's fixed now with an appropriate quote. Agreeing with me is irrelevant because I only care about the disagreements and immediate "everyone who does X is DUMB" statements, they're what I find worth discussing. People who agree with me, I don't have anything to discuss with - It's nice, but boring. [color=#ffff00]When someone goes and calls an entire player base dumb - I believe in real life, that's called Prejudice. [/color] So yeah: [i]"Your typical inexperienced and misinformed first impression based on pubstomping"[/i] is what I find to be an appropriate response. And if you don't like it, just ignore me then. Manners are not my forte, I reply and write with everyone who reads the thread in mind, not for any single person's comfort. I don't like the idea of randoms reading other people's misinformed statements, and thinking its correct when [u]IT. IS. NOT.[/u] And I've yet to encounter a rebuttal that actually refutes me properly.[/quote]

[quote=WaffleWarrior]It promotes bad habits.[/quote]

[quote=Urscythe][quote=JunSupport] There are a few major things misleading or wrong with Dominion. 1. [color=#ffff00]Winning does, in fact, involve strategy to win.[/color][list] [*] Some think it does not involve strategy, but low-elo classic LoL doesn't involve strategy either - You just queue up, try to win, the end. [*] Thinking it doesn't involve strategy and that you only need to zerg enemies can sometimes win games against equally misinformed players, but cost you the game against more skilled players [/list] 2. [color=#ffff00]Capture-and-Hold does make holding 3 points the ideal situation - For newbies[/color][list] [*] Holding and defending 3 may not be the best absolute strategy, but its the simplest to pull off. [*] Just because Dominion has more complex strategies doesn't mean everyone can pull them off - Newbies will step back to the safer steps because they don't have confidence in what does or does not work. [/list] 3. [color=#ffff00]The score system is highly flawed.[/color][list] [*] A lot of people use the scoring system to justify their performance when often it can mean the exact opposite. [*] Here's a list of what the scoring system rewards you for, that it shouldn't:[list] [*] Duo-captures/neutralizes - Capping a point with an ally, when its perfectly secure, means you're wasting time you could be using to go fight for and capture a different point [*] Re-capping points near your base that you recently died at: The system gives too many points for reclaiming points that they shouldn't have lost to begin with. [/list] [*] Now, here's a list of what the score system SHOULD reward you for, but does not:[list] [*] Killing minions - Pushing a lane actually applies pressure to the adjacent enemy point, which is a good thing [*] Intercepting enemies - If you stall a person while an ally captures a point, that should deserve an assist [/list] [*] Also, the game rewards significantly less points for assists, which is a crime in and of itself. It causes people to whine about KSes, and makes tanks' and supports' scores looks immensely less impressive. [/list] [/quote] +1. You summed it up well, and even made it look pretty. I like you. The score system definitely needs a bit of a revamp because it pretty much encourages people to play poorly, and it makes it hard to determine whether or not someone was really doing their job. I've had games where I went 0/12/2 as Galio, have been 500 points below our #4, and yet was probably the most useful, most important member of the team because I was constantly pushing creeps on bottom and constantly requiring their bottom to drag one or two buddies over to chase me off. This meant the other 4 dudes on my team (because they almost never came to assist me) were free to rampage all over the map. Creeps absolutely have to reward points, even if it's just 1 point for casters and 2 for supers. Pushing creeps is one of the major job descriptions of the bottom anchor (you have to be tanky and you have to be able to push creep waves safely), and it's still a damn nice ability to have as top anchor. Pushing a point with three waves of creeps will cause a LOT of damage to the turret - enough to neutralize it with your next wave, or force them to burn Garrison to regen its health. Hell, if you've managed to chase off the hero defending the point, capturing the point with a couple waves of creeps assisting can mean you CAPTURE the point instead of simply neutralizing it. This wouldn't be open to abuse, either - it doesn't matter what your role is, if you wipe out a wave or two of creeps, you are helping your team. I also think that you should receive points for assisting creeps in neutralizing or capturing a point - you're the reason three waves of creeps are pounding on that turret, but if you can't safely sit there and channel, you get absolutely nothing to show for it, not even a mark on your Points Neutralized counter. Honestly, I'd also like to see you get partial points for causing damage to a turret, even if you don't complete the neut/cap. Instead of 40 points for the whole shebang, I'd rather see it reward all players involved 10 points for every 25% HP you drain from the turret. When I play Blitz or a similarly speedy hero, I'm constantly nibbling at enemy points. Assuming the enemy team is competent I can only rarely completely neutralize the point and almost never capture it, but I'm constantly reducing its health (which makes it vulnerable to a sudden wave of creeps, see above) and forcing them to detail someone to chase me in circles for 30 minutes or lose the point. I'm significantly contributing to my team, yet I'm receiving no points for it. An alternate option might be to simply give you +5 points every few seconds for "point assault" when you're on a hostile point, like they do when you're camping on a friendly point.[/quote]

[quote=BunkerBob]As it stands if you are near the cap point and you neutralize it you get 10 for the asisst, and another 10 for assist cap.[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=JunSupport] There are a few major things misleading or wrong with Dominion. 1. [color=#ffff00]Winning does, in fact, involve strategy to win.[/color][list] [*] Some think it does not involve strategy, but low-elo classic LoL doesn't involve strategy either - You just queue up, try to win, the end. [*] Thinking it doesn't involve strategy and that you only need to zerg enemies can sometimes win games against equally misinformed players, but cost you the game against more skilled players [/list] 2. [color=#ffff00]Capture-and-Hold does make holding 3 points the ideal situation - For newbies[/color][list] [*] Holding and defending 3 may not be the best absolute strategy, but its the simplest to pull off. [*] Just because Dominion has more complex strategies doesn't mean everyone can pull them off - Newbies will step back to the safer steps because they don't have confidence in what does or does not work. [/list] 3. [color=#ffff00]The score system is highly flawed.[/color][list] [*] A lot of people use the scoring system to justify their performance when often it can mean the exact opposite. [*] Here's a list of what the scoring system rewards you for, that it shouldn't:[list] [*] Duo-captures/neutralizes - Capping a point with an ally, when its perfectly secure, means you're wasting time you could be using to go fight for and capture a different point [*] Re-capping points near your base that you recently died at: The system gives too many points for reclaiming points that they shouldn't have lost to begin with. [/list] [*] Now, here's a list of what the score system SHOULD reward you for, but does not:[list] [*] Killing minions - Pushing a lane actually applies pressure to the adjacent enemy point, which is a good thing [*] Intercepting enemies - If you stall a person while an ally captures a point, that should deserve an assist [/list] [*] Also, the game rewards significantly less points for assists, which is a crime in and of itself. It causes people to whine about KSes, and makes tanks' and supports' scores looks immensely less impressive. [/list] [/quote] Couldn't agree more, point 3 expecially. [quote=DuffTime] The problem with Dominion? Everyone who plays this game is dumb. Basically, the result is that they have completely FORGOTTEN that this is STILL League of Legends. In Summoners Rift, would you run one after the other to stop a tea of 5 doing Baron? Of course not, you saw a pro team wait for all 5 members to fight it, or they don't fight it at all. But people are so STUPID, that they think THIS MAP is somehow different. They run one after the other to a tower with 3 defenders and die over and over again like panicked lemmings desperate to kill themselves. They go cap-happy even when they are low HP, instead of simply basing, and getting prepared to defend the points they just capped or held. That's why I don't even play Dominion. I played it the first day of release and just stopped because the people who play it are so brain dead. The strategies I used right from day 1 are just being put into place now, weeks later. Zzzzzzz. And when you do it right, and cap and defend, it's boring. When your team does it wrong, it's maddening. Quite simply put, I don't like the map at all. [/quote] Not everyone but 75% for sure, for the rest I have to agree [quote=JunSupport] Have you climbed into the high-elo regions of normal queue for Dominion to meet players who have high win-ratios? [/quote] have you? [quote=JunSupport] [color=#ffff00]When someone goes and calls an entire player base dumb - I believe in real life, that's called Prejudice. [/color] [/quote] Is prejudice only because he said entire, but I refuse to think you wouldn't take that as an iperbolic claim. Is a matter of fact that about 75% of people in most civilized countries are DUMB AS FUCK! I doubt that a gaming comunity can be an elite of enlightened minds. Pretty damn sure majority of LoL playerbase is as dumb as people who voted Bush jr twice (I'm not american but I doubt using italian situation would have been as worldwide understandable), a man who nearly broke his jaw eating a peanut.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Of course if I were in a game with HotShotGG they would have a better grasp of how to play the map and thusly it would be a better experience. Don't feel like climbing the "Elo" of a new map again however.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=JunSupport] There are a few major things misleading or wrong with Dominion. 3. [color=#ffff00]The score system is highly flawed.[/color][list] [*] A lot of people use the scoring system to justify their performance when often it can mean the exact opposite. [*] Here's a list of what the scoring system rewards you for, that it shouldn't:[list] [*] Duo-captures/neutralizes - Capping a point with an ally, when its perfectly secure, means you're wasting time you could be using to go fight for and capture a different point [*] Re-capping points near your base that you recently died at: The system gives too many points for reclaiming points that they shouldn't have lost to begin with. [/list] [*] Now, here's a list of what the score system SHOULD reward you for, but does not:[list] [*] Killing minions - Pushing a lane actually applies pressure to the adjacent enemy point, which is a good thing [*] Intercepting enemies - If you stall a person while an ally captures a point, that should deserve an assist [/list] [*] Also, the game rewards significantly less points for assists, which is a crime in and of itself. It causes people to whine about KSes, and makes tanks' and supports' scores looks immensely less impressive. [/list][/quote] There's another pretty big thing imo. Minions die when they pass an allied turret. That's just annoying, because in the time it takes to mass up that minion wave, an enemy could just be capping one of your points making your efforts useless. That problem is also the reason why I think promote is too lackluster. Promote needs a buff to the super minion OR not die when it passes an allied turret. Or both.[/quote]