Upcoming Jungle Hotfix

[quote=Searz]Banking would be a good system as long as the bonus rewards are relatively small. They do DEFINITELY need to buff jungle in general though..[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]I'm still thinking there needs to be a random mob that spawns randomly and either replaces a neutral camp for a short time or patrols some arbitrary path....I know that would be hard to balance...And it's probably a worthless concept but...Hey why not keep on saying it?[/quote]

[quote=CelticChampion]Morello (Morello's Avatar) Lead Champion Designer This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information 49 of 55 Riot Posts Yesterday, 06:10 PM Update: Release team is going to try for tomorrow (Saturday), the issues are known and that's the current estimate. I'll poke around over tonight and the weekend if anything changes. Thanks again folks. This is referring that the hotfixes they are working on will go on effect ASAP to try and get the jungle balanced out. @Jeffy40Hands but what about dragon? Would this neutral camp be for the Junglers to battle over only or something.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]Personally, I think this "banking" system sounds kind of lame. Riot's intentions were to nerf counter-jungling in the first place (months ago). This kind of goes back on that. And now, I feel the jungle just need some on-kill gold and exp boosts. They don't need extra gold-build-up for staying alive. Once the exp and gold are up to snuff, then at the end of a usual route-clearing, a jungler should have a choice to continue farming or help out a lane. Not help out a lane AND still get similar rate gains to continuing to farm. That seems silly, cause what if you get a good gank AND go back for the creeps? Now you have a surplus - That can lead to snowballing. If a gank fails, that should be a loss. A lesson to teach the jungler to do better. Right now, the loss is too great: You're just barely keeping up after finishing standard jungle routes, and you end up falling behind by a level or two if you fail the gank. A "banking" system (from what it sounds like) would be an [i]overload[/i] of a buff, that makes the jungler as strong as it used to be. Stronger even! Cause then, if you fail a gank, you just go back to your creeps, and you NEVER fall behind. (And control-junglers would be significantly stronger then they were before) And when someone [u]can't[/u] fall behind... Nothing but trouble for game balance. (And remember, if you're successful with the gank, that "banking" creep is going to give a [u]surplus[/u] of gold - Snowball away~) The current just need a [i]small[/i] buff to push junglers into getting [i]slightly[/i] ahead at the ideal times to gank. That way, if the gank fails, your loss equalizes your slight gain, and you haven't fallen too far behind (just a [i]little bit[/i]). (Perfectly possible to still catch up) If you're successful with the gank and get a kill, the creeps will only grant standard gold, so you don't get extra gold just for letting the creep sit for a while (but are still ahead thanks to the kill). This sort of set up teaches people to learn from their mistakes, without pushing them into a corner on either winning or losing sides.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=JunSupport] Personally, I think this "banking" system sounds kind of lame. Riot's intentions were to nerf counter-jungling in the first place (months ago). This kind of goes back on that. And now, I feel the jungle just need some on-kill gold and exp boosts. They don't need extra gold-build-up for staying alive. Once the exp and gold are up to snuff, then at the end of a usual route-clearing, a jungler should have a choice to continue farming or help out a lane. Not help out a lane AND still get similar rate gains to continuing to farm. That seems silly, cause what if you get a good gank AND go back for the creeps? Now you have a surplus - That can lead to snowballing. If a gank fails, that should be a loss. A lesson to teach the jungler to do better. Right now, the loss is too great, but that just means the current jungle just needs a "small" buff to push junglers into getting "slightly" ahead at the ideal times to gank. That way, if the gank fails, your loss equalizes your slight gain, and you haven't fallen too far behind (just a "little bit"). A "banking" system would be an overload of a buff, that makes the jungler as strong as it used to be. Stronger even... Cause then, if you fail a gank, you just go back to your creeps, and you NEVER fall behind [/quote] Riot ARE allowed to go back on intentions. See also: Irelia nerfs. People snowball everywhere. Take bottom lane. You kill the most important champion on their team, then can freely farm as they can't stop you, when you're the champion that gets the biggest benefit from farm. Not that this shouldn't be encouraged, but doesn't it mean that you WANT to gank to receive this surplus, rather than it being better to sit in your jungle and farm, and ganking either keeps you up in levels as much as it would jungling, OR you become underlevelled. It's not the fact that the jungler is stronger or weaker than it was that's annoying most people, it's the fact that the new jungle is devoid of skill, a farm fest, and basically encourages passive play. That's the fact that really annoys me. It's dumbed it down as far as it could go.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=CelticChampion] Morello (Morello's Avatar) Lead Champion Designer This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information 49 of 55 Riot Posts Yesterday, 06:10 PM Update: Release team is going to try for tomorrow (Saturday), the issues are known and that's the current estimate. I'll poke around over tonight and the weekend if anything changes. Thanks again folks. This is referring that the hotfixes they are working on will go on effect ASAP to try and get the jungle balanced out. @Jeffy40Hands but what about dragon? Would this neutral camp be for the Junglers to battle over only or something. [/quote] It's something like Dominion's bonus objectives (capture and defend 2 points simultaneously). But it's a creep camp which offers gold/exp/maybe a buff. Something that isn't always in a fixed position which makes it harder to assault or defend. I think it would promote aggressive playstyles and get team fights started earlier. IDK the overall label for the idea is DGO "Dynamic Global Objectives". The objective appears randomly on the map and begins to path around. Tough enough not to be soloable (well not easily soloable I mean)[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]Just going to answer the silly stuff: [quote=Xenasis] Riot ARE allowed to go back on intentions. See also: Irelia nerfs.[/quote] Irelia is about as strong as she was on release at the moment - Riot was just waiting for the community to smarten up and realize it, because it seemed no one was willing to learn her. That's not Riot going back on intentions. They're being patient. [quote=Xenasis]It's not the fact that the jungler is stronger or weaker than it was that's annoying most people, it's the fact that the new jungle is devoid of skill, a farm fest, and basically encourages passive play. [/quote] So wrong. Killing jungle creeps NEVER required skill. It's what you do after that requires skill. Creeps are easy, it just needed the right runes - Which was dumb to begin with, cause people below level30s couldn't even practice. The current jungle did not change that. Killing creeps is still easy. It's not easier, does not require less skill. It does not take skill to plug in the right runes and attack away. What's new (or intended to be at least) is that creeps respawn faster, while giving adequate farm. Right now it's not - That's why you THINK it's forcing you into passive play. That's Riot's fault with the numbers, nothing more. The adequate farm makes you choose: Gank now? or Keep farming? "Right now" - The jungle (as I said) is screwed up on the numbers. So you can't get a good enough rate of farm/exp going to choose to gank. But if it were working properly - Then it does take more skill. The skill required to choose between ganking or farming when both are good options - That's real skill right there. Lastly, YES, Riot wants the jungle to be more passive. If the above explanation works, then (random) 50% of junglers will choose to keep farming. But guess what that means? 8D Lanes will be more aggressive. That's 4 laners (doesn't matter which side) that will be choosing to be more aggressive once people figure out that Junglers are more passive. 4 Lanes with more aggressive plays is better then 1 aggressive jungler that pretty much controls the flow of the game. (It is not the Jungler's role to control the flow of the game. I read a Riot Red explicitly describe a jungler's role, and that's not part of it) The potion nerf was part of this - People more willing to take the offensive because they know their damage won't disappear with pots. This will accentuate lane aggression and force the lower (not low, just lower) ELO communities to pay more attention to lane match-ups. They can't just take any champion they want and grab Boots + Potions. They'll actually have to start learning "This champion bad vs that champions" because potions won't be an end-all item that smooths out any problems they have against bad match-ups. The "bad"-ness of the match-up will show more. And I think all of this is fantastic.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=JunSupport] Once the exp and gold are up to snuff, then at the end of a usual route-clearing, a jungler should have a choice to continue farming or help out a lane. Not help out a lane AND still get similar rate gains to continuing to farm. That seems silly, cause what if you get a good gank AND go back for the creeps? Now you have a surplus - That can lead to snowballing. [/quote] You mean like exactly what happens when a laner gets a kill on their opponent and get to free farm creeps until they come back, giving them a gold and XP advantage? Just saying. Like the whole point of this game is snowballing.[/quote]

[quote=thebigd]If you successfully gank the bank should triple, if you miss you should get no gold or experience 60 seconds. THAT would encourage aggressive play.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=thebigd] If you successfully gank the bank should triple, if you miss you should get no gold or experience 60 seconds. THAT would encourage aggressive play. [/quote] Lol no.[/quote]