General Guide by jhoijhoi

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League of Legends Build Guide Author jhoijhoi

How Voting Works

jhoijhoi Last updated on June 23, 2012
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Hi all, jhoijhoi here to write another arbitrary guide to go with my Guide about Making a Guide ^^ This guide is about how to cause the least amount of offense and anger when you comment or vote on guides. This guide also has all the information you could want/need to read about votes and guide functions that are located in the subforum of support. Full credits to Matt and FlashJ for any bits and pieces I paraphrase!

Hope you enjoy this guide!

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How do I Gain Popularity for my Guides?

As you may have noticed, guides gain popularity through 3 different ways:

1) Being displayed on the front page

2) Being Featured by accumulating +Scout points from Scouts / Veterans / Moderators

3) Having a good score percentage (80%+)

This is mainly achieved through voting. Other ways of increasing traffic to your guides is to include a link to your guide in your signature, and by participating actively in the forums. The more you post and comment on other guides, the more people will come to respect you and possibly check out your guides in curiosity.

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Who can Vote on Guides?

Who can vote?
  • Any logged in member can vote, once per guide.
  • IP tracking prevents abuse from users creating dummy accounts to vote multiple times on one guide.
  • A user may change their vote at any time from the same account that originally cast the vote.
  • Any attempts to cheat the system will result in a ban, the deletion of your votes and the deletion of your guide.

There are many types of voters out there:

1) Join MobaFire to vote once, and never come back. These people generally post a comment like, "Best build ever, went 21/2/64 first game!"

2) Dedicated users who vote frequently and have no other agenda besides helping a fellow guide-writer out. This portion of voters are regular visitors, possibly posters on the forums, and are vets/mods.

3) Revenge down-voters/Troll voters whose sole purpose is to lower a score of a guide. These are generally guide makers who are enraged if you downvote, and so downvote your guide in return. They can also be guide writers who have written a guide for the same champion as you, and will downvote your guide to raise their position on the ladder higher.

4) Up-votes only. These people go on a voting spree with the same comment on every guide, "Great guide +1".

5) Friends. These are the people you recruit to give you your first 20 positive votes. They are similar to the people in instance 1), but they aren't joining out of their own free will. (this is my friend, Warlemming)

6) Knights in Shining Armour. These voters deliberately seek out those who have been downvoted without reason, and upvote to restore the balance and/or comment with suggestions for improvement. (this is my friend, Patch)

7) Sheep-voters. These voters will only ever look at the top rated guide and upvote it regardless of it's content. These voters are possibly the worst type of voters, as they sustain the high percentage of the top guide, not allowing any other guides to challenge it. These voters will also search for similar guides and downvote them due to finding the "perfect" guide earlier.

Now, I would like you to take a step back and ask yourself which category you fit into. It is okay to be in several of the categories, but if you're in one that is dis-favourable, consider the error of your ways ^^ We're all guilty of being naughty at least once, but after you've done the crime, try not to do it again. You don't want to be a repeat offender.

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How Voting Works

Why can people vote without commenting?

If "Require comment to vote" is activate, the first 20 votes will be displayed visibly to the public, with a negative red -1 bar, or a positive green +1 bar. Votes after the 20th vote will become anonymous, and voters will not have to comment to vote.

How can I add the green upvote bar to my post?

Currently there is no coding way to do this after C2V turns off, but you're welcome to use this image to supplement positive votes (just right click the image, get image URL and paste it into a notepad for future use):

Scoring is based upon the Bayesian Average Formula

The Bayesian Average formula is designed to weight scores according to the total number of votes the guide has received. The more votes a guide has, the less the weight affects the score. The weights pull the score up or down towards a site average. If you have low votes and a low score, it will increase your score to give you a fighting chance. If you have low votes and a high score, it will decrease your score so as not to displace guides that have a high number of votes and a high score. This system strives to be fair and impartial to all guides:
  • It allows us to compare and rank guides regardless of their age.
  • It gives a fair score to new guides that do not have many votes yet.
  • It prevents new guides from rapidly climbing or falling in rank before we have an accurate score.
  • It counteracts "rogue voting" - that is, votes that go against the general opinion will have a smaller affect on the score due to the weights.

For example, in a calculation of an average review score of a book where only two reviews are available, both giving scores of 10, a normal average score would be 10. However, as only two reviews are available, 10 may not represent the true average had more reviews been available. The review site may instead calculate a Bayesian average of this score by adding the average review score of all books in the store to the calculation. For example, by adding five scores of 7 each, the Bayesian average becomes 7.86 instead of 10, which the review site would hope that it will better represent the quality of the book.

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Freshness Filter

This is a feature of MobaFire that archives outdated guides. There are four levels to the "Freshness Filter": Ideal, Fresh, Stale and Expired. When a guide reaches the Expired level, it will be filtered out of various places on the site automatically, and a message will appear at the top of the build when it is being viewed, informing users that the build has become outdated.

There is also a "patch" drop down on the browse guides page and on the champion database pages, that will filter out any guides that were not updated after the chosen patch. You can use this to further help narrow down the lists.

The "freshness" of a guide is based on the last publish date. All authors have to do to bring their guide up to date is click publish. However, if you do this without actually bringing it up to date, you should expect some backlash in negative votes. So make sure you really have updated things

The levels work as follows:

  • Ideal: Guides updated within 2 patches. This shows a green icon.
  • Fresh: Guides updated within 4 patches. This shows a yellow icon.
  • Stale: Guides updated within 6 patches. This shows a red icon.
  • Expired: Guides that have not been updated within 6 patches. This shows a skulls icon and automatically archives the guide.

Where is this implemented?

  • Browse Guides: The patch filter has been replaced with a "freshness" filter, and it defaults to "stale".
  • View Champion: Both view champion pages (the ones linked from the database as well as the ones linked in the footer) now display freshness indicators and have expired guides filtered by default. There is a link provided to allow you to toggle expired guides on or off.
  • View Guide: A freshness indicator has been added to the top of the page. If the guide becomes expired, a warning will appear at the top of the guide directing users to the browse page to find more recently updated guides. Additionally, the similar builds box in the sidebar no longer shows expired guides.
  • Homepage and Top Lists: The homepage guide boxes and the toplists linked from there and from the sidebar have been updated to exclude expired guides. The monthly toplist will of course still show expired guides.

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"Troll Votes"

Matt wrote:
We receive many requests to delete what authors consider to be "troll votes" on their guides. We wish to be clear about our stance regarding these requests. We will only revoke votes if we find proof that the user has circumvented system protections, such as in an effort to vote multiple times on same content. This is against the site rules.

Further, there are a number of situations commonly reported as "troll votes" that we will NOT take action against. This includes (but is not limited to);

1) Voter did not provide a valid defense or explanation (meaningless comments).
2) Voter misunderstood an aspect of the guide.
3) Author disagrees with voter's opinion.
4) Voter is rude in their comment.

The point of the voting system is to try to gain an accurate measurement of the general reader opinion of the content on the site for the purpose of ranking. If the voter misunderstood or disliked some aspect of your guide, others will too, and so their vote is representative and necessary. We may moderate the comments themselves if they are nasty, but we will not delete the associated vote.

To be clear; we will not be deleting any votes unless we can find proof that the voter broke site rules by attempting to circumvent system protections.

Additionally, please do not directly PM Moderators or Administrators in an effort to get votes deleted. If you truly feel someone is cheating the system, or if you are offended by their comments, use the report tool and provide all the information you can in your report, including links and any other information that you feel proves guilt. Not only will this ensure that your issue is dealt with as quickly as possible, but it will help us to build up a history on that user.

For Clarification/Discussion

Furber wrote:
I just got a troll vote, he -1'd me using the comment "IM GAY MOUAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH". Which means he didn't even look at any of my guide, he's not "disagreeing with me", he didn't "misunderstand my guide", he didn't have any argument which he would have "explained, or defended". He didn't "include rudeness" in the 'comment', the entire comment was rude. He deliberately intended to lower my rating, he joined Mobafire the day he made this comment, he has 10 other comments, all of which I'm assuming are "IM GAY MOUAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH". It's not fair that some of us try to perfect our builds as well as we can in an attempt to have a good rating, when all it takes is one 'troll' to make an account and go around giving -1s with such a comment as this.

It's also not fair to remove a downvote - even if he's trolling, it reflects his opinion. Like it or not, trolls are part of the LoL community too.

tl;dr is "If it's not an IP cheat, we can't delete it."

Siveo wrote:
In what category would you set the next vote: An unknown downvote without comment ...? I had one like that and I just hate that, at least say why ...

I call that a troll vote. It's interesting, watch the "Mobafire's Top Guns" list. You'll notice an interesting pattern. Any time a guide hits the #1 spot, it does not ever stay there for longer than a 24 hour period. In that 24 hour period, it gets somewhere between 10 and 15 anonymous downvotes and drops 3 to 7 places, then slowly makes its way back up. My guide has been in and out of the #1 spot half a dozen times now... so has Foggy's... so has Madmack's.

It's like the guides are all in a bike race and at the front is a cart with a monkey flinging poo. The closer you get to the front, the more poo hits you until finally there's poo in your EYES, YOUR NOSTRILS, YOUR THROAT, ALL OVER, and it's horrifying and you drop back just to avoid the unstoppable fecal onslaught! And also the bikes are made out of CANDY.

Where was I... oh yes, there's no way around saying it. There are people in this world who simply resent anyone else having success, positive feedback, or even friends. Every time one of your guides gets a bunch of upvotes, expect downvotes. When it happens to you, just go back... and read all of the positive things people have said. Focus on the fact that you, sir, brought a whole bunch of people so much fun that they decided to take 10 minutes out of their day to thank you for it :) After that... who gives a **** about the anonymous downvoters? XD

Sometimes it's actually better when they DON'T leave a comment. Did you see that total ****** who got all mad at WrathofVulk for taking Zhonya's Hourglass, saying that it "TURNS YOU GOLD" and he should take Guardian Angel instead?? At least I think that's what he was saying, he couldn't spell or make grammatical sense to save his life. The dialog went on for PAGES and, while I busted my gut with laughter, I cannot imagine how irritating that must have been for Wrath to have to contend with.

Screw scores anyway. They're just stupid numbers. Jhoijhoi doesn't have a #1 guide, but she is more civil than I, does way more for the mobafire community than do I and people love her for it.

PsiGuard wrote:
I wouldn't [call a downvote without a comment a troll vote]. It just means some one didn't like your build. They may have a legitimate reason for downvoting (just look at the lowest scoring builds) or maybe they are just afraid of a revenge vote. I would always take criticism over silence, but sometimes I choose to anonymously downvote some guides if I notice the author has a bad take on criticism, especially if the criticism I would give has already been stated.

Ultimately, a vote just reflects the reader's opinion. Criticism is a bonus, but anonymous voters have just as much right to express themselves as those who leave comments. Not every anonymous downvote is a troll vote, just like not every anonymous upvote is a sheep vote.

To be honest, I think I hate the vote-and-never-return types more. If I know they're downvoting for a silly reason (like they misunderstood something in the guide), and I clarify it for them, I would expect a response. I'm fine with people disliking a guide, but it's worse when they misunderstand it.

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Dealing with Troll Votes

So you've just released your first guide, aptly titled, "THE BEST SIVIR GUIDE EVAR: PROS ONLY". You hit the refresh button every few minutes, anxiously waiting for the first vote, the first comment, the first sign of criticism. After about 24 hours of sitting in front of the computer, and having broken the F5 button, you finally receive your first troll vote.

The first thing to do is to close your browser. Do not reply directly after reading it. Wait a few minutes, go have an icecream, pluck your eyebrows, pwn some bots in a Co-Op vs AI game - whatever.

After you have cooled down, reopen your browser. Read the comment again, and try to read it from their perspective. For example, this could be their comment:

RandomUserOne wrote: "I don't like the build. Why would you get Mannamune on Sivir? That's stupid. Also, your masteries are really ****, 30 into Offense?! Your runes look okay, but you shouldn't be using Dodge chance like that. I also couldn't read your guide because there were so many errors. And god, it's so ugly, use some coding or something. -1 for now."

Whoooooah. Hold your horses. Don't get mad! Yes, this is your baby, your pride and joy, and they shat all over it. Don't sweat it. Calm down and read it again, actually read it. Let's go over their points.

- I don't like the build.
Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about comments like these. If the voter doesn't like the build, then they don't like the build. It does not matter if all the pros use this build. It does not matter if you have a 99% win rate with this build. No amount of facts in the world will change someone's opinion. They just didn't like the build. Oh well, that's their loss, isn't it?

- Why would you get Manamune on Sivir? That's stupid.
First consider their comment. Why would you get Manamune on Sivir? Think it over. If you have a good answer, write it down. In a civil voice, " Manamune is a very underestimated item. It is a fantastic item early game, and it is quite cheap (only 2100 gold) for the statistics that come with it. I chose Manamune as Sivir's first item because early game we want to be harassing the enemy as much as possible with Boomerang Blade. Tear of the Goddess helps us with this spamming. And if you're unlucky enough to be up against a spammy caster, you'll be able to use her Spell Shield more often and not worry about mana."

All you're doing is replying to their comments in the most civil way possible. By replying this way, you're showing other viewers that you can handle criticism, and that you can reason effectively about the decisions you have made in your guide. If you do it right, you could add your reply to a FAQ section of your guide, and actually CREDIT the voter. This will make him more likely to upvote.

If, on the other hand, you've realised that perhaps Manamune isn't so great on Sivir, say so. "Gee, thanks for the comment, RandomUserOne. I really was considering whether Sivir needed Manamune, and I guess you're right. I've replaced it with an early Bloodthirster instead."

- Also, your masteries are really ****, 30 into Offense?!
Before you do anything else, have a look around at the other Sivir guides. Then have a quick look at random guides on this site. Do any of the guides have weird mastery trees, like 30/0/0, or 26/2/2? No? Well, have a quick think, and reconsider your masteries. Maybe getting points in Plentiful Bounty , Burning Embers , Improved Rally upgrades aren't a viable strategy when you can only have 2 Summoner Spells.

Make sure your guide makes sense. While you're changing your Mastery Tree allocation, have a look at your Skill Sequence. Have you got more than 3 upgrades of your ultimate, and you're not Udyr? Or 6 points in an ability?

In response to this comment, say something like, "I chose 30/0/0 because" and then explain it. If you realise at this point that 30/0/0 isn't the best use of Mastery Points, then say, "I really would like to keep Havoc , so I do more damage, what do you suggest I do with the other 9 points? I can't make up my mind between 9 in defense, or 9 in utility."

This reply will show you are willing to change your guide to reflect feedback.

- Your runes look okay, but you shouldn't be using Dodge chance like that.
Have a look at your runes. Defend them with your reasons. Then read their comment again, and consider it. Yes, Sivir does receive Dodge chance due to her Passive. But consider it from the point of view of a person who plays AD carries. When you are an AD carry in a teamfight, are you constantly moving around in circles, or standing still, killing an enemy? Then consider you've decided to go 21 into offense, and you may not have grabbed the 9 in defense for the dodge chance and proc. Did you specify dodge boots? No? This means you're not getting the best out of dodge chance, and leaves the question why you bothered with Dodge Runes.

So answer civilly, "Ah, I can see your point, however, I choose Dodge because the only other viable runes for seals is mana regeneration, and because I choose to buy a Manamune, I don't need the mana regeneration. I could list alternative runes, though, thanks for the idea!"

- I also couldn't read your guide because there were so many errors.
There really isn't any excuse for this. When you hit that "Publish" button, you are releasing your work to the public eye. Would you go outside without changing out of your PJ's? Would you hand in a draft as your final copy for an assignment? There's no excuse for laziness, run your guide through a spell check, put it into Microsoft Word, check for grammatical errors. Make your guide something people will WANT to read. Not something they have to struggle to understand.

Your response, "You're right, RandomUserOne. I submitted this around 3am in the morning because I was so eager to write a guide... I'll fix it up as soon as I get home from school :)"

- And god, it's so ugly, use some coding or something.
This is easy to fix. Browse the forums, have a look at other guides, learn about BBCode. Read my Guide about Making a Guide for more details :)

- -1 for now.
ALWAYS RESPECT THE OPINIONS OF YOUR VOTERS. Full stop, the end. They gave you a -1, don't worry about it. If your guide is good enough, you will receive positive votes that counter this one. Or a Knight in Shining Armor will swoop in on his white horse.

And they said "for now". If you're lucky, they'll check back, see that you've commented nicely, and change their vote. If after a week they haven't replied, feel free to send them a friendly PM. Be civil in your PM.

"Hi RandomUserOne, I'm SoAndSo and recently you commented and voted on my Sivir guide. Since your comment I have changed my guide a lot and even credited you for some of the changes, and I was hoping you could have another look.

Thanks in advance,

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When *You're* the Troll Voter

Admit it. You broke up with your girlfriend. Your dog was kicked. You accidentally set your level 100 Pikachu free. You lost a ranked game of LoL. To vent, you logged on to MobaFire and went around -1'ing guides for the stupidest reasons.

"No lifesteal on AD Carry, U BAD!"

"lolololololol this build is so bad"

"Wow, this guide is so bad I cut myself"


Put yourself in their shoes. They log on, read your comment, and then cry. Unless you're some creepy ****ing sadist, you don't want to cause people to be upset. Don't you dare think you can be a desk-jockey.

We've rewound the situation. You're about to type, "Build is ****" when you realise that the guide writer wasn't the one to give you a B- for your English Assignment. This random person on the internet has not affected you in any way.

Do not downvote a guide just because you can.

ctrl+a Backspace. Start again.

RandomUserOne wrote: "Man, I appreciate the time you took to write this guide, but I have a few problems with it. I don't like the build. Why would you get Mannamune on Sivir? You also haven't thought of buying any lifesteal, which is essential on AD carries.

Also, your masteries are really weird, 30 into Offense makes no sense at all. You can only have 2 summoner spells, so I don't know why you're getting the upgrades of random summoner spells that you don't take.

Your runes look okay, but you shouldn't be using Dodge chance like that, especially as you buy Zerker's Greaves over Ninja Tabi, and you don't get the dodge masteries in defense. I had trouble reading your guide because there were so many errors - you should really consider running it through a spell check, and such. Some coding and formatting would make your guide a lot more attractive too.

I won't downvote for now, but PM me if you make any changes, and I'll have a look.

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A tl;dr for those who can't be arsed reading the novel above ^^

1) Don't downvote just for the hell of it. State your opinion and leave an option for the author to PM you with a reply.

2) Don't upvote unless you actually like the guide. If the top guide has 98% and is actually bad, check out the other guides, and vote for the ones you do like.

3) Troll Votes are votes, no matter what they say. Try to make their comments constructive towards your guide, otherwise, ignore them.

4) You should be writing your guide to help people, not to get the best score.

Happy voting, happy commenting, happy birthday! (the last one didn't quite fit, did it...)

Enjoy life ^^

- jhoijhoi

Check out my other General Guide:
Guide about Making a Guide

Ending in a positive note:

Something I thought I'd add... I figure it's worth sharing... when I get mystery downvoted or trolled with a nasty comment, what really makes me feel a lot better is to cruise around mobafire, find another guide that I like and that someone has worked hard on, then upvote it and leave a really positive comment.

Sometimes I do it a few times and I always feel better afterwards. It's countering against the troll-votes on someone else's work, and you're making someone else feel good about themselves in the process, and that's like... a super amazing wonderful feeling and honestly I feel so much better after doing it. If anyone out there gets really frustrated by the negative feedback they get, I really suggest trying it :)

HINT: The above is also a really easy and fun way to get +rep ;)


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