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Talon Build Guide by Vapora Dark

This build has been archived and is for historical display only.

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League of Legends Build Guide Author Vapora Dark

Vapora's Guide To Talon

Vapora Dark Last updated on June 23, 2013
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1
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Helgasst (11) | September 1, 2013 3:54am
Hi Bro, i've tryied your build and it is awesome. I've won almost always my lane. And the most important that i got a Quadra with your build!:D If u wanna check out the quadra what i can thank to your build you can do it here!:) (its not a commercial) Talon ccccccuadra:D :D
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regatto | August 27, 2013 2:44pm
you should try a build thats currently pretty popular in NA diamond/challenger soloq which goes mercs > lizard elder (after 5th item) > brut/cleaver > whisper > cleaver > situational damage/defensive item. the aim is explode with CDR and have a full arpen setup that wrecks every squishy in 2 seconds flat.

also longsword start isnt my cup of tea; id pretty much always go flask, fort pot or boots.

upboated.
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maveric2170 | August 17, 2013 1:33pm

ill check it out :D
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Janitsu (486) | August 17, 2013 11:57am
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maveric2170 | August 17, 2013 11:53am
I just created an account to vote this up. This guide is a good one and it helped me from 0/12/11 to 32/2/17 (which is my highest). :D
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Vapora Dark (420) | August 8, 2013 2:46am
ppl wanted me to keep it up D:
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DarkPercy (151) | August 6, 2013 6:19pm
NICE OUTDATED GUIDE.

BE A MAN. DO LIKE ME. ARCHIVE YOUR PRECIOUS GUIDE.

NOW.
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Dragonblade Talon | July 25, 2013 8:22am
Wouldn't Zephyr work in this build as well? I mean, you get some movement speed, AD, CDR, and lots of Attack Speed! Not only that, but it could replace Merc's Treads with its passive, Tenacity (no sense in both Merc's and Zephyr; the passives don't stack...).
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Multiface1997 | July 17, 2013 1:22am
Do you know how to kill a late-game carrier with a lil bit tanky hp (tryndamere for example)
Just played a match against a late-game tryndamere, he hit fast, deal much damage, and also life steal a lot. basicly killing him was impossible, not to mention his ulti makes a burst useless.
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killforjustice | July 15, 2013 7:30pm
awesome guide and you pro ;D
1
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pie6013 | July 15, 2013 2:22pm
more match-ups please?!
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Kaggboer2012 (19) | July 15, 2013 1:28pm
downvote dis so your other guide gets above it xD
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uridjits | July 14, 2013 2:08am
How about Blade of the Ruined King for him, because the active can help kill and run away
1
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IAmByakuya (82) | July 12, 2013 9:17pm
No hot chick playing talon :/?

:okay:
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 12, 2013 9:03pm
PsiGuard wrote:


Vapora's a guy.

(errr, right?)

THANK GOD.

I was beginning to worry the MOBAFire community actually thought I was a chick. >_> I am indeed a guy.
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IAmByakuya (82) | July 12, 2013 7:45pm
Hes both apparently
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PsiGuard (862) | July 12, 2013 7:31pm

^llok at her new guide :D

Vapora's a guy.

(errr, right?)
1
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mastrer1000 (128) | July 12, 2013 7:22pm
^llok at her new guide :D
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IAmByakuya (82) | July 12, 2013 6:56pm
Question Vapora

Why isnt Ghostblade in your guide when ive seen you take it several times as talon on your ranked topic?
1
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LouisA. (4) | July 11, 2013 8:57pm
THIS GUIDE = INTERMEDIATE TALON

NEW GUIDE = ADVANCE TALON
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Reo Kawamura (3) | July 11, 2013 8:47pm
I love your new guide, but maybe you should keep this one up for newer Talon players, because your new build and guide overall requires you to be incredibly Competent, and know positioning properly, which, albeit, you do explain. Still, sometimes, people just don't get it. (I was like that when I was new.)
Just a thought. Keep up the good work.
~ Reo.
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Janitsu (486) | July 11, 2013 6:45pm
Lnk pls i upvots
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 11, 2013 6:38pm
NEW GUIDE IS OUT.

I'll archive this one in a day or so.
1
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ElSalyerFan (1) | July 11, 2013 3:37pm


Finishing it right now, it'll be released before I go to bed.


So much YES
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 11, 2013 2:28pm
Mugih wrote:

Hey Man, just started playing him, nice build, but, when is your next guide coming out?

Finishing it right now, it'll be released before I go to bed.
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Muffin of Mayhem (2) | July 11, 2013 10:50am
Nice guide. You managed to balance enough damage for his role as an assassin and also make him durable enough not to melt during a teamfight, while he jumps on their carries.
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Mugih | July 11, 2013 10:28am
Hey Man, just started playing him, nice build, but, when is your next guide coming out?
1
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LouisA. (4) | July 10, 2013 3:11am
LoL I used the YG build on rengar ang panth and it works well. :p
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AeronX2 | July 6, 2013 7:12pm
I love your guide, very helpful, ive been 33-14-11 and 35-14-9 with him! He's my new main
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jefhsi | July 5, 2013 10:34pm
If you haven't found a solution for AP Yi yet, I have a suggestion. If he tries to Q you, rake him at the minion he Q'ed to after he reappears. Then proceed to chase him to his turret (Talon wins the autoatk war). If he tries to heal halfway, then silence him and Q him to go for the kill. I've beat every AP Yi this way with Talon.
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RMDragon3 | July 5, 2013 3:36pm
Hi there!

Liked a lot the guide, willing you upload your new one xD.

I've been playing with your guide for long time, and really enjoyed it.

It will be very interesting to see you playing, I'll keep an eye on your channel. Btw, you should also add shorter videos to your new guide, only with your best plays or fails, for example, so people can see fastly what you can and cannot do with Talon, without having to see 10h of games. (which not many people will do)

Hope you think about it.

P.D. Really liked the lane-gank and escape on 28:30, but that flash... xD. So bad ending
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 5, 2013 3:12pm
Berzerk wrote:


Why archive you already have the number 1 guide just update it lol xD.

Because my guide began in season 2. People upvoted x3 Bloodthirsters, not Youmuu's and IE. It's unfair to have pretty much a completely different guide to the original and still keep the same votes. It's like, I could change my build to AP Talon and tell people to feed as hard as they can, and it would still be the #1 guide for a VERY long time.

Why does your ashe has a stinger?

LOL no clue. For some reason I've been stuck with the ******ed teams since hitting plat. These are all the games I've played after that video.



The only one I actually deserved to lose was the Swain one. :< All the others have just been free losses with no chance of winning, despite me having actually played well.
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ElSalyerFan (1) | July 5, 2013 2:38pm
Why does your ashe has a stinger?
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Berzerk (155) | July 5, 2013 12:00pm


Shh, no one saw that...

Yeah, my new guide will have a section for this, but right now there's no point adding this to it because I'm about to archive it when I finish my new guide. Whoever keeps up with the comments of my guide can enjoy this right now. :P

Why archive you already have the number 1 guide just update it lol xD.
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 5, 2013 11:30am
Berzerk wrote:

You have the video on private.

Shh, no one saw that...

Yeah, my new guide will have a section for this, but right now there's no point adding this to it because I'm about to archive it when I finish my new guide. Whoever keeps up with the comments of my guide can enjoy this right now. :P
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Berzerk (155) | July 5, 2013 7:19am

So I figured out a way to record games. Here's me in my 2nd Plat game, where Jax lane-switched with Veigar at level 1 and I had to fight Jax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNgIHOVLtZk&hd=1

It's extremely low quality and buggy, but hopefully it's useful. :/ It shows me performing one or two late-game lane-ganks.

On my next videos I'll do commentary too. I was actually commentating on this one too, but at the end I realized my mic was muted. DERP.

Edit: I bought a Bloodthirster in that game before Last Whisper because no one except Xin had an armor item at that point.



You have the video on private. Put it on unlisted if u want to be able to post it for others to see, but not visible to the standard youtube community. also you should have a section in your guide where u can put the videos because alot of people wont come in the comments and find them =(
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 5, 2013 6:54am
So I figured out a way to record games. Here's me in my 2nd Plat game, where Jax lane-switched with Veigar at level 1 and I had to fight Jax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNgIHOVLtZk&hd=1

It's extremely low quality and buggy, but hopefully it's useful. :/ It shows me performing one or two late-game lane-ganks.

On my next videos I'll do commentary too. I was actually commentating on this one too, but at the end I realized my mic was muted. DERP.

Edit: I bought a Bloodthirster in that game before Last Whisper because no one except Xin had an armor item at that point.
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LouisA. (4) | July 4, 2013 8:37pm
Well, I think ArPen quints does better late game than AD quints. (Personal Preference)


Really looking forward to your new guide! :)
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philip83 | July 4, 2013 8:33pm
+1
loved the layout and pictures, it was also really in depth. talon is one of my favorites since he came out but with some of your items and strategies mixed with mine I've loved him.
Please think of adding Randuin's Omen to your items. its amazing on talon especially if they have a fed vayne
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 4, 2013 3:45pm

Do you think ad quints or armour pen quints are better? Because I just lost to another talon who had arpen quints and he effed me up.

AD quints > ArPen quints early on, but they scale better, because the more damage you have through items and base damage, the more effective armor penetration is. AD better for snowballing, ArPen better for scaling.

LouisA. wrote:
Hmmm, you don't use MS quints anymore because of youmuu's and boots of mobility am I right?

Precisely. Literally the only thing I would gain from movement speed quints nowadays is being harder to gank during laning phase.

LouisA. wrote:
BTW, when you finish your new guide are you going to set this one aside or are you going to mind both?

Set this aside, no point in maintaining this guide when it's just plain worse than my other one. Both in terms of damage and utility.
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LouisA. (4) | July 4, 2013 9:38am
Yeah, that was exactly what I meant by that. :)

Hmmm, you don't use MS quints anymore because of youmuu's and boots of mobility am I right?

Oh well, I guess it's back to my old build :))) except this time with the hydra and BC and without the Tri-force. LOL.

BTW, when you finish your new guide are you going to set this one aside or are you going to mind both?
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GodofClouds | July 3, 2013 9:10pm
Do you think ad quints or armour pen quints are better? Because I just lost to another talon who had arpen quints and he effed me up.
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T13MO | July 3, 2013 6:13am

need help on the lissandra matchup

tons of poke, cc and disengages

what should i do?



Let her push all the way to your turret and farm there. Play very defensive and ask the jungler to babysit you and give you the kills from gank. Later on, you don't 1 v 1 her and just focus the squishies and adc to get kills. Then you get fed and easely beat her with your q
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 3, 2013 3:34am
GG.



LouisA. wrote:
So right now. . .

AD marks > Arpen Marks?

how about Arpen Quints to MS quints?

Yeah. Not sure what your second question meant though. Did you mean if it's viable to use ArPen quints? In which case yeah, I don't even use MS quints anymore.

I went against AP Ali mid today. Strangely strong. Would've been shut down the whole game if the other team wasn't full of squishies. If you want to know my personal tips for the matchup from one experience then I shall tell you.

I can already imagine how a match-up vs Ali goes. ;P I'm guessing he went OOM a lot though, as he both needed to headbutt and heal?

T13MO wrote:
Well, I think this message is long enough, but I have a few tips for you:

-You say in the guide that Arp are the best runes to take, but in the rune choises above the items, you say you must take attack damage. You should change them ^^.

-Make a youtube vid with more advanced tips!

Flat AD marks are the best to take. I just haven't updated the actual guide to reflect that, but always listen to the cheat sheet, as it's what I update first.

I'll try. :(

need help on the lissandra matchup

tons of poke, cc and disengages

what should i do?

l0l I haven't seen Lissandra since like 2 weeks after her release.

I personally had no problem with the match-up, she's squishy as hell. Just play defensively and farm up until your first B, get Brutalizer, then start playing offensively, as you scale with items better than her. If you still have trouble with the match-up, just build Tiamat and shove every wave into her turret.

LouisA. wrote:
People are already praising that controversial build. So lessen your worries about it getting downvoted vapora. :)

Lol, but these are people that are already fans of my guide and know that I know my ****. The average GOOD League player thinks Youmuu's Ghostblade and IE are bad. Even I used to think they were bad until I started using them.

Either way, I don't care. I'm not gonna re-publish this one if my new one doesn't hit #1 again, so they can accept my guide, or they can welcome their new trash #1 guide.

Should be finishing it shortly, by the way.
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LouisA. (4) | July 3, 2013 1:28am
People are already praising that controversial build. So lessen your worries about it getting downvoted vapora. :)
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GodofClouds | July 2, 2013 8:27pm

need help on the lissandra matchup

tons of poke, cc and disengages

what should i do?

Lissandra is an easy matchup, her harass can be pretty annoying but just try to poke her with w and hold out till 6 and It's an easy kill, try and use e-q-w combo to make her use the claw since it is on a long cooldown. then go back in with ult for the kill.
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ElSalyerFan (1) | July 2, 2013 6:52pm
need help on the lissandra matchup

tons of poke, cc and disengages

what should i do?
1
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RussianHusky | July 2, 2013 3:28pm
I love this build. It's just so fun to use! It's true that you can practically one-shot the ADC.
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T13MO | July 2, 2013 9:08am
Yo Vapora!

I started playing talon a few weeks ago, when I finally had enough IP to buy him. I played him like 2 months ago when he was free week and I am in love with him ever since.

I have followed this guide with the runes, masteries, first few items and ability sequence, but the mid-end-final build items not. I thought I'd build myself and test items.

When I had my ''perfect'' build, I looked up this guide again and quess? SAME BUILD exactely! Oh well, now a few weeks after I bought him, I really own with him. Today went 10-1 with 240 CS at 30 minutes.... IN RANKED! Thank you so much for making this buid! Today I had some free time, so I decided to read this whole guide and the W-->AA-->E-->Q combo is new for me. I usually go E-->AA-->Q-->W-->AA or something that looks like that. I will definitely try W-->E-->AA-->Q!


Well, I think this message is long enough, but I have a few tips for you:

-You say in the guide that Arp are the best runes to take, but in the rune choises above the items, you say you must take attack damage. You should change them ^^.

-Make a youtube vid with more advanced tips!
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Keltayy (6) | July 2, 2013 6:43am
This build are awesome! I havent been playing Talon for over 2 months. Then I return with this build and getting penta ;)
+1!
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ElSalyerFan (1) | July 2, 2013 12:19am
the controversial build is just too strong! serves more of an epic lategame talon in my oppinion. for some weird reason i just had a game when the squishys (cait and teemo) where together; i killed teemo (teemo first because blind Q and because **** teemo) with e-aa-q and cait died just 'cause of splash damage. and in other game i killed draven 3 times in a row... instagibbed near our base, waited for him at pushed botlane and then just #YOLOed in his base. due to the high respawn times those where almost 3 minutes w/o fed enemy carry. won de almost lost game because of that and the baron it went from.

thanks so much, vapora! for the new build and the new laneganking tips. never woulda thought about that and probably woulda lost the game without that help.
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Thatotherguy6 (2) | July 1, 2013 10:15pm
I went against AP Ali mid today. Strangely strong. Would've been shut down the whole game if the other team wasn't full of squishies. If you want to know my personal tips for the matchup from one experience then I shall tell you.
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LouisA. (4) | July 1, 2013 9:55pm
So right now. . .

AD marks > Arpen Marks?

how about Arpen Quints to MS quints?
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LouisA. (4) | July 1, 2013 9:52pm

Hey man. I finnaly bought Talon. I've been following your guide since I was still a naab, back when there was like 3 BT's or smth like that, probably read it for the first time more than a year ago. I've also been following your ranked thread and I have always found Talon very interesting. I would always play him on free weeks, but then I'd save up and decide to buy someone else. I finnaly bought him and I think that he's gonna become my go to guy. I played him in a blind pick with some friends and these were the results:


So, ye, thanks for the guide! One of the best guides on MOBAFire. Your dedication to this champ is just amazing.So, ye, again, thanks!


MONSTER BRAH!

I was only able to hit 19-4 with that build because I was rushing the nexus :p
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TheBlueReaper (20) | July 1, 2013 2:40pm
Hey man. I finnaly bought Talon. I've been following your guide since I was still a naab, back when there was like 3 BT's or smth like that, probably read it for the first time more than a year ago. I've also been following your ranked thread and I have always found Talon very interesting. I would always play him on free weeks, but then I'd save up and decide to buy someone else. I finnaly bought him and I think that he's gonna become my go to guy. I played him in a blind pick with some friends and these were the results:


So, ye, thanks for the guide! One of the best guides on MOBAFire. Your dedication to this champ is just amazing.So, ye, again, thanks!
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Vapora Dark (420) | July 1, 2013 12:39pm

I've seen some Talons building Spirit of Lizard Elder to strengthen their Q burn damage and help with mana management. Opinions on this? I think it delays your core damage items a bit too much.

You've seen Talons? I only ever see a Talon that isn't me on Talon free week. O_o

I was building Lizard Elder for a while before it get nerfed, but now it's not worth it, it just doesn't give enough AD. It used to be good because it was so cost effective, but now that they've lowered the AD, it isn't as cost effective, and it isn't as effective either.

Excuse me,
I have a question:
maybe it's just a TYPO, but when you describe Runes in your guide, you talk about "Greater Mark of Armor Penetration" but it looks like you have picked "Greater Mark of Attack Damage".
Am I missing something?
Thanks for the guide, anyway!

Yeah, I updated my cheat sheet very recently to include AD marks, because they've been the best marks for a while now, but I haven't gotten round to updating the rest of my guide.

If anything conflicts between my guide and my cheat sheet, always listen to the cheat sheet, because it's the easiest thing to update, so it's always the one most likely to be updated.

LouisA. wrote:
Hey vapora, I would love to see your other guide for your other build. the "better" one ;) I really would love to see it. can you post the link? anyways, I hope people won't take that guide negatively since you said it was a controversial build. haha thanks!

It isn't finished yet, so I haven't posted it anywhere online. It's nearly done though and I'll post it on mobafire first.

People are gonna have to like it though, 'cuz i'm archiving this one because it's flat out worse than the one I'm nearly done writing. Either people like my new one, or you cay hi to your new #1 Talon guide!. ;)

have you considered recording yourself playing and commentating? would be interesting watching how you approach a fight as talon, how you get out and how you burst.

Yes, I would LOVE to do that, but I had trouble finding a good free recorder, and I can't concentrate on speaking while playing, or playing while speaking, so I would need to record my voice on a LoLReplay video, but my LoL Replay is bugged as hell. :( May try re-downloading it soon and see if that fixes it. I might have a good recorder downloaded on my computer now, it would just be a case of figuring out how it works. xP
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ElSalyerFan (1) | July 1, 2013 11:55am
have you considered recording yourself playing and commentating? would be interesting watching how you approach a fight as talon, how you get out and how you burst.
1
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LouisA. (4) | July 1, 2013 6:44am
Hey vapora, I would love to see your other guide for your other build. the "better" one ;) I really would love to see it. can you post the link? anyways, I hope people won't take that guide negatively since you said it was a controversial build. haha thanks!
1
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Stephan Vladuck | July 1, 2013 4:52am
Excuse me,
I have a question:
maybe it's just a TYPO, but when you describe Runes in your guide, you talk about "Greater Mark of Armor Penetration" but it looks like you have picked "Greater Mark of Attack Damage".
Am I missing something?
Thanks for the guide, anyway!
1
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Janitsu (486) | July 1, 2013 4:19am
Spirit of the Elder Lizard doesn't give enough ad, you should be able to handle the mana early and the burn damage isn't too fabulous compared to the damage that B. F. Sword will add to it :p
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NorthernRedStar (80) | July 1, 2013 4:12am
Just went 6-0-3 with Talon in ranked. Crazy game, I was regurlarly switching lanes with Vladimir due to enemy Veigar and Singed doing it. In the end, managed to steal their blue, kill Singed and Veigar both once; took boots of mobility, pushed top and mid, ganked bot lane's enemy Vayne - VOILA, game was finished in under 22 minutes. Farm was not too shabby either, IIRC I reached 150 CS or something like that.

I've seen some Talons building Spirit of Lizard Elder to strengthen their Q burn damage and help with mana management. Opinions on this? I think it delays your core damage items a bit too much.
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DarkSector7 | June 30, 2013 8:27pm
Hey there THANK YOU sooo much for this AWESOME guide! Just made acc on mobafire to vote on yout build! It inspired me so much i learned a bunch of things about Talon and also about positioning and game tactics! your methods are fantastic the items sections is more than accurate, u inspired me to main this awesome champ first time i followed your build and your advise I just carried a dosen of games by myself with pretty high scores like 33/7 also nearly had a penta.(i main mid-lane)I love to play assasins they represent me as a character, I usualy carry my team when they let me mid and with this awesome Talon-guide my win percentage lunched at 90%. U made a wonderful work! Keep up the good work and let the others say **** Talon is a glass cannon ASSASIN who takes out the whole team by himself if played at 100% Best guide found so far, I will keep rolling with this to get to gold fast! +rep :-)
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OTGBionicArm (410) | June 30, 2013 1:12pm
I will never earn approval! D:

*quietly sobs the lyrics to Crawling by Linkin Park and cuts wrists.*

DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU DO TO ME.
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 30, 2013 1:11pm
So like I already mentioned before, I've been in Scotland the past few days and the place I've been staying has no Wifi. So to pass the time I've made some massive progress on my new guide in a document, and I think I've pretty much finished all the important chapters, I just need to do stuff like Runes and Masteries and stuff.

Sneak peak. :D

Quoted:
Late-game lane-ganking / Split-pushing

I'll start off by saying that late-game, it's STILL possible to lane-gank, and it's pretty much impossible for the enemy ADC to survive your gank when you have so many items.

Any experienced player will know that late-game, it's custom for ADC's to group up on mid lane like everyone else, but go farm bot lane whenever a large group of minions has pushed to their tower. This allows them to stop the tower from going down to minions, and lets them keep their CS high. Every ADC does this because it's extremely effective, and it would be stupid not to do so.

As Talon, I've learnt to use this tactic against them. I'm ALWAYS paying attention to my team's minions on bot lane. And whenever I see that the group of minions is extremely large, or that they've reached the enemy tower, I stop whatever I'm doing to go bot lane, avoiding stepping anywhere that's likely to be warded, I go on bot lane and go as close to the enemy minions as I can while staying in the enemy's fog of war, and I just wait. The enemy ADC has no idea I'm on the lane, and they enter bot lane to clear the wave. I make sure I'm far enough away that they won't see a single blade from my ultimate, and I pop Youmuu's and use my ultimate, and run up to them and burst them.

With high attack speed from Youmuu's, extremely large crit damage, and the extra burst from Tiamat, they die straight away. I once had an enemy ADC comment to me during his death recap that I'd just killed him in 0.68 seconds. How long does my silence last? 1 second. He LITERALLY could do nothing to escape it. It was impossible for him to flash away because of the silence, even in the unlikely case that he did have an insanely fast reaction time.

So the ADC is dead, there was nothing he could do about it and he had no way of seeing it coming, and you're near bot lane's tower with a massive minion wave. Do I need to spell it out? Fine. You destroy the tower. You split-push. They can't do anything about it, because sending another person on bot lane would just be another kill for you ( Ahem. Not countered by armor... Not countered by HP... ), and defending mid lane 3v4 would be hard. And they can't send 2 or more people after you because defending mid lane 2v4 or less would be IMPOSSIBLE. Not only that, but if just ONE of the two people they send after you is squishy, you can instantly kill them ( even without your ultimate, it's hard NOT to insta-gib a squishy enemy when you do 1k crit damage ), and the 2v1 has instantly become a 1v1.

EVEN if they do manage to kill you after this ( there's no guarantee that they WILL win, or even catch you if you try to run ), your play has still been extremely effective, because you killed 2 people on bot lane, and there's a third still on bot lane having just killed you, leaving mid with at most 2 enemies trying to defend a tower vs 4 people. Most likely scenario? They will either die, or will be forced to let your team destroy the tower and keep on pushing.

When you're about to lane-gank the ADC, you can tell your team what you're about to do, and tell them to position themselves near the baron, but outside of the enemies' wards, so they don't know your team is near the baron. When you kill the enemy ADC, your team immediately moves into the baron pit and begins to baron. So the enemy team is left with 2 choices: Try and stop your team from baroning, or let you push bot lane as much as you want and possibly take an inhibitor. If they decide to stop your team from baroning, then easy, take the inhibitor. If they try to stop you taking the inhibitor, then easy, just run away and have a free baron! Whatever the enemy team decides, your team gains an extremely large advantage. All just because you ganked the enemy ADC!

There's a third variation of what you can do after killing the ADC, which is one I tend to do quite often. As frustrating as it is, your team may not always be smart enough to recognize what an extremely strong opportunity they have to push mid if you kill their ADC on bot lane, and just farm wraiths or something. In this case, you can't attack the bot lane tower without risking all 4 of the remaining enemy team coming to kill you. But this doesn't mean your play was useless for anything other than getting a kill for yourself. What I do if my team isn't pushing mid, is I go into the brush that's near the second bot lane tower, and just wait there.

They think I'm gone from the lane when I don't show up to destroy their tower, but there's still an extremely large minion wave attacking their tower. So they don't send 4 people to bot lane, but they do need to send SOMEONE to farm the wave.

If they do the “dumb” thing and send their tank to farm the wave, that means their ADC is dead and their tank is bot lane, so you should tell your team to go take the free baron. The tank realizes your team is trying to baron when they see your team through enemy wards, and goes towards the baron, so you run out of the brush and attack their tower. They either have to turn around to stop you and let your team take the baron, or they simply have to accept that the tower is going down if they want to try and defend the baron. If the enemy ADC respawns and tries to stop you from either destroying the last bot lane tower or inhibitor, you just walk away to pretend that you're leaving the lane.

The ADC thinks he can finally get to farm the bot lane minions, except you just lane-gank him a second time because your ultimate and Youmuu's Ghostblade have ridiculously short cooldowns. Even though the tower can detect you coming in stealth, assuming the ADC is so far back that you need to get that close to the tower to reach him, your movement speed is so fast that they can't react in time before they're silenced and killed again. So free inhibitor for you.

If they do the “smart” thing and send their support to farm the wave, because their support is the least important person to have present in a baron fight, you run out of the brush and just ****ing KILL that squishy son of a *****, tell your team to baron and begin to take down the tower. Baron is 4v3 if they try to contest it, bot lane is 1v0. Best case scenario, you destroy the inhibitor, your team aces them at the baron and takes the baron. Worst case scenario, you destroy the inhibitor, your team somehow loses the baron and but undoubtedly kills one or two of them to keep them from having the buffs, and you base-gank the enemy ADC while he's clearing the minions which are now attacking his nexus towers. By base-gank, I mean you use your ult and Youmuu's Ghostblade on bot lane, just outside of their base ( they can see you anywhere inside their base, so you need to do it outside ), run in under stealth and kill the ADC again, taking his baron buff. In the end, the enemy team has 2-3 baron buffs, but lost their inhibitor. It still comes out in your favour, even in the worst case scenario.

If they do the “downright ****ing ******ed” thing and send their mid to farm the wave, you run out of the brush, kill the squishy son of a *****, and GG, they have 2 tanks and a support to try and contest the baron when your team goes to do it, and you can safely destroy bot lane, with both of their biggest damage dealers dead. Best case scenario, you get a tower and an inhibitor. Worst case scenario, YOU GET A TOWER AND AN INHIBITOR.

These aren't the only possible situations that can arise when you lane-gank an ADC, but they're the most common I've seen. I can't explain every single possible situation and what you need to do in it, but you know what to do in the most common situations, and hopefully you have this wonderful thing called a brain and can figure out yourself what to do if a different situation arises after your lane-gank.

This has been an extremely large explanation on lane-ganking and the possible split pushing afterwards, but I hope you realize now just how strong a tactic this is. I've heard people say in the past that Talon is a horrible split-pusher, and I've just laughed. He's a horrible split-pusher if you treat him like an ordinary split-pusher, true, but there are ways explained above that can make him an extremely strong split-pusher, if played correctly.

You should also realize that this type of lane-ganking with Youmuu's and your ult isn't just limited to use on bot lane. I do it all game long whenever I see the enemy ADC on their own or just with a support. Late-game lane-ganking is probably the strongest play you can make on Talon, and it's not hard to pull off either. Just learn to do it without allowing a single ult blade being visible to your enemy, and that's it. You've mastered lane-ganking.

Also, lane-ganking is one of the reasons I don't sell Boots of Mobility even late-game. It's possible to lane-gank without them, but it's much more effective with them.
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 30, 2013 1:06pm

what? if i ult in a bush they can't see the blades?

If the blades enter their vision, they can see the blades. But if you ult from far enough away that all the blades are still in their fog of war, then even if they're looking at that area, they can't see the blades.

In other words, if you're on mid lane, your enemy is farming in the middle of the lane, and you cast your ultimate, the blades will poke out of the brush and they'll be able to see them. But if you cast your ultimate from just behind your tower, they won't be able to see the blades, and you can run towards them with your very high movement speed, and they'll have no idea you're there.

Are you proud of me enough yet Vapora? :[

Nice CS... NOT.
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CleverlGN | June 28, 2013 11:04pm
Helped me so much with my talon it's unreal!!! Love this champ, thank you so much
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OTGBionicArm (410) | June 28, 2013 8:06pm

Are you proud of me enough yet Vapora? :[
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ElSalyerFan (1) | June 28, 2013 2:04pm
what? if i ult in a bush they can't see the blades?
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Twoletter | June 28, 2013 1:42pm
Would just like to comment that this is one of the few guilds i actually read every word too. Well written and fun to read. I actually made an account just to up vote it and comment. Thank you for your time and consideration. I should go play Talon now, i dont play him enough.
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 28, 2013 12:51pm

1. how does this new build change your playstyle?
2. how does the new build change your burst?
3. is now AA+Q in the burst a must to get a random IE crit?
4. how much is my damage reduced if i don't get a crit? is that the difference between the enemy carry's life or death or my scallings are still high?

1. Youmuu's makes the ability to catch enemies out / make plays with Youmuu's + Shadow Assault much better, as there's no chance of an enemy seeing a single blade of your ult if you cast it from the fog of war correctly. You also have DPS with Youmuu's, should you need it, and the large armor penetration and large crit damage from your full build means you aren't limited to only being able to burst down squishy champs. Your full burst is also over-kill vs squishy enemies. Sometimes I can kill an enemy just with one R, E and Q.

2. Rather than burst with E Q W Tiamat R, you can go Youmuu's R E Q , adc is probably already dead, and you still have Youmuu's active, Tiamat and W left over. You can even probably 1-shot an ADC without using R at all, but R is necessary for sneaking up on them.

3. It was always a must. No point in wasting damage. But with this build sometimes you don't even need to go past AA + Q to kill an ADC thanks to your crits. ( The other day I played a game where various people in-game were spectating me, and they watched me literally 1-hit a full HP Annie with just Q, because it crit )

4. Your scalings are still high because the point behind the build isn't even that you can crit. Youmuu's is extremely strong because it gives 20 ArPen, which increases the damage of both your base damages and the damage you get from the AD of every other item in your build. Infinity Edge is therefore a replacement to the Bloodthirster you'd be buying otherwise because the crit chance from Youmuu's makes IE viable, and even with no crit, IE only gives 25 AD less than BT. With no crits, your burst is still higher than a standard Talon build, because the combination of Youmuu's, Last Whisper and Black Cleaver means you're doing true damage to ADC's.

Hey I read your guide and 've been using it to play talon XD good guide dude
Also, i just found out about Boots of Swiftness, they give a nice move speed boost both in and out of combat
They prove to be quite useful with the alacrity, so whats your opinion about it?

They're good, but I prefer Boots of Mobility because they're easier to catch enemies out with. I also tend to buy Alacrity late-game unless team-fights are taking place near my base, in which case I buy Homeguard.

LouisA. wrote:
I think you should put a separate cheat sheet for your new build and name it as CONTROVERSIAL BUILD :)) Just my opinion :p So people would have views on each build.

I'm working on a different guide entirely for this build, as there's some pretty neat tricks you can do with this build that you can't with a standard talon build, and my placestyle at times can be different, so the rest of my guide sometimes doesn't apply to my new build.

I'm actually writing this new guide in a solomid format to have my guide on there too, but when I'm done with that I'll convert it into a mobafire format and release it here too.

Neither of my guides will be released until I'm plat, for the sake of not having to update my Elo in both of them from gold to plat.

Hogopogo wrote:
Tyvm:3

15/9/6 in ranked :D

Not bad. :P
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 28, 2013 8:23am
Im in acotland for a week and the place im staying in doesnt have wifi, and i cant be bothered to respond to comments on my phone. x.x Ill respond to everything next time im in wifi range on my laptop, possibly later on today. Until then. :P
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Hogopogo (157) | June 28, 2013 3:16am
Tyvm:3

15/9/6 in ranked :D
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LouisA. (4) | June 27, 2013 6:19pm
I think you should put a separate cheat sheet for your new build and name it as CONTROVERSIAL BUILD :)) Just my opinion :p So people would have views on each build.
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Multiface1997 | June 27, 2013 10:30am
Hey I read your guide and 've been using it to play talon XD good guide dude
Also, i just found out about Boots of Swiftness, they give a nice move speed boost both in and out of combat
They prove to be quite useful with the alacrity, so whats your opinion about it?
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LouisA. (4) | June 27, 2013 9:18am

i'm very interested in your new talon build. you have helped me to to rise as a talon so much i will trust you even if you start recommending rilays nad lich bane but....

how does this new build change your playstyle?
how does the new build change your burst?
is now AA+Q in the burst a must to get a random IE crit?


Hydra + Noxian Diplomacy both resets your AA so i think there's a high chance getting crits would be easy.
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ElSalyerFan (1) | June 26, 2013 8:43pm
i'm very interested in your new talon build. you have helped me to to rise as a talon so much i will trust you even if you start recommending rilays and lich bane but....

how does this new build change your playstyle?
how does the new build change your burst?
is now AA+Q in the burst a must to get a random IE crit?
how much is my damage reduced if i don't get a crit? is that the difference between the enemy carry's life or death or my scallings are still high?
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 26, 2013 4:12am
LouisA. wrote:

Just tried the youmuu's build. It's quite challenging without sustain but it is a great build tho. Good burst with just bruta and tiamat. plus cs is high.

Oh yeah, the full glass cannon with no sustain part can be hard to pull off, if you have trouble with that just upgrade to Hydra before buying Youmuu's. Reason I don't like doing that is that the upgrade from Tiamat to Ravenous Hydra only gives you 25 AD. I prefer skipping it so I'm 1400 gold ahead in the rest of my build.

And yeah, I underestimated Youmuu's. :( 20 ArPen is actually ridiculously strong, more so if you couple it with the 10 ArPen from Black Cleaver.

Isn't Ravenous Hydra's active basically an aoe autoattack? Seeing as how an autoattack technically has an AD ratio of 1 as well. So wouldn't this make an autoattack with another Bloodthirster even more damaging than a Ravenous Hydra active? Assuming that both actions should take about an equal amount of time.

Yes, but the reason I like to call it a spell is because it's near enough instant, unlike an auto-attack. If while using a BT, you were going to wait until you landed 1 more auto-attack than what you would otherwise, you could do the same with Hydra, but use the active as well.

Which means that no, both actions don't take an equal amount of time. Hydra is nearly instant, while an auto-attack is dependant on your attack speed. I don't ALWAYS activate Youmuu's when I'm bursting someone, so you shouldn't base your build around knowing you'll have high attack speed, because you don't always have high attack speed.

The Bloodthirster IS viable however, it's just not optimal.
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Thatotherguy6 (2) | June 26, 2013 12:34am
Isn't Ravenous Hydra's active basically an aoe autoattack? Seeing as how an autoattack technically has an AD ratio of 1 as well. So wouldn't this make an autoattack with another Bloodthirster even more damaging than a Ravenous Hydra active? Assuming that both actions should take about an equal amount of time.
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LouisA. (4) | June 25, 2013 11:43pm
Just tried the youmuu's build. It's quite challenging without sustain but it is a great build tho. Good burst with just bruta and tiamat. plus cs is high.
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LouisA. (4) | June 25, 2013 6:03pm
Hmm, I'll try playing talon with a ghostblade again. Just like what I used to do before I saw this guide a year ago :p
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 25, 2013 2:32pm
25 AD + on-hit effects on a champion with extremely large AD ratios = bad
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Paralysekid (1) | June 25, 2013 1:14pm
Hey you also seem to not mention Blade of the Ruined King anywhere, what would you say to that?
It gives nice CC, which comes in handy fpr passive and does 5% of health dmg?
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lMagusAscendantl | June 25, 2013 10:48am
I want to thank for this well made guide too.16/2 is a good score I think :)
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 25, 2013 10:07am

Hey man, sorry if this was asked before, but what do you think about Zephyr on Talon?
+25 attack damage
+50% attack speed
+10% movement speed
+10% cooldown reduction
Sounds very nice, have you thought about this item?

You can consider replacing boots with Zephyr late-game once you've completed your build, but I don't like it because having large movement speed helps you catch people out and make plays, which is why I tend to keep Boots of Mobility late-game rather than sell them for Mercury's Treads.

LouisA. wrote:
Brutalizer -> Tiamat -> Boots of Mobility -> Youmuu's -> Last Whisper -> Brutalizer -> Infinity Edge -> Black Cleaver -> Ravenous Hydra

Would you recommend this more than your cheat sheet and is this for higher elo since it's more advance?

You need to be smart to take full advantage of its potential, but I think even ignoring that, it has more burst damage anyway, so yes, I do recommend it over my current build. The only thing keeping me from changing my build right now is that IE, Ravenous Hydra, and Youmuu's are all controversial items for Talon, and I'd probably get instantly downvoted by quite a few people if they saw my build, ignoring that I've been using a standard Talon build for over a year and think this one is much better.

Janitsu wrote:
Gooby pls

y u do dis dolan T_T

What does Ravenous Hydra's Activate actually do that makes it so good? You made it sound really great but in game when I use it near people it does near to no damage, does it make some stats better or something?

Is it mainly used for farming?

It's an extra spell. Whereas BT gives you massive damage through your ratios, Ravenous Hydra does the same with just -25 AD, and GIVES you more ratios, as well as does your base AD in damage.

It's a weak spell compared to the other spells in your kit, but a spell nevertheless, and 105.8 base damage with a 1 AD ratio is nothing to laugh at. It transforms your total AD ratio from 6 to 7, your total level 18 base damage from ~1000 to ~1105.8

Comparing it to BT, all BT does is add 25 more damage to be multiplied by your ratios. Ravenous Hydra gives you more ratios to multiply the damage given to you by OTHER items too, not just Ravenous Hydra.

Ravenous Hydra > Bloodthirster, hands down. But when the grand majority of the LoL community hears about Ravenous Hydra on Talon, they're incapable of thinking past "Talon doesn't use the AoE passive well because the targets he bursts shouldn't be in the middle of a fight". In reality, Ravenous Hydra gives more damage SINGLE TARGET burst damage than BT for the same cost, as WELL as AoE. There's no competition. Ravenous Hydra just ***** all over BT on Talon. And this is coming from someone who's season 2 build consisted of this:



is combo is too risky in teamfights (for example if you use your E in wrong time,you will be slain in 1 second)

Obviously it isn't.

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lMagusAscendantl | June 25, 2013 7:49am
His combo is too risky in teamfights (for example if you use your E in wrong time,you will be slain in 1 second)
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GodofClouds | June 24, 2013 5:20am
What does Ravenous Hydra's Activate actually do that makes it so good? You made it sound really great but in game when I use it near people it does near to no damage, does it make some stats better or something?

Is it mainly used for farming?
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Janitsu (486) | June 23, 2013 10:30pm
Gooby pls
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LouisA. (4) | June 23, 2013 5:36pm
Brutalizer -> Tiamat -> Boots of Mobility -> Youmuu's -> Last Whisper -> Brutalizer -> Infinity Edge -> Black Cleaver -> Ravenous Hydra

Would you recommend this more than your cheat sheet and is this for higher elo since it's more advance?
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Paralysekid (1) | June 23, 2013 4:43pm
Hey man, sorry if this was asked before, but what do you think about Zephyr on Talon?
+25 attack damage
+50% attack speed
+10% movement speed
+10% cooldown reduction
Sounds very nice, have you thought about this item?
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 23, 2013 8:56am
Lol thanks Jhoi.

You're right, my guide is indeed in need of a big update, and I've been intending to update it as soon as I hit plat.

So update incoming soon, right?

right? D:

Edit: Given the cheat sheet a quick update. Off the top of my head, ArPen marks switched to AD, masteries switched to 21/9 from 21/0/9, Randuin's included in defensive items, and stated that defensive items aren't always necessary on Talon.
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jhoijhoi (1881) | June 23, 2013 6:36am
I learnt from your guide. Simple things that should be intuitive but aren't, things that need to be said in order to be understood.

+Scout. I think the guide needs a little bit of an update, as I know the majority of it was written a long time ago. I think if you wrote the guide today, a lot of the written content would change.
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 23, 2013 5:48am
Apologies to everyone for late responses if they were late in your case, I began responding to everyone the other day and had about 2 responses down, then suddenly chrome just randomly closed and I lost everything I'd typed. I COULD have started again at that moment, but instead I thought "*** dis, playin league". :P

LouisA. wrote:

I've been following this guide for a year now. I stopped playing LoL like 2-3 months ago and then when I played last week, I still got the moves haha. well "Once an Assassin, always an Assassin."

Any thoughts about

Zed,Kha'zix,or Rengar against talon?

Zed's easy for me because he's super squishy, and you can 100-0 him at level 6. His ult does more damage than yours, but if you burst right, he'll be dead before he can even click R on you. For bursting Zed, do this: E Q R W Ignite. Early R so he can't ult you due to stealth, W for massive burst damage from both the 2nd R and the 1st W, and Ignite so he dies. If he doesn't immediately die and ults you, and you think there's a good chance he'll kill you, flash away AFTER he's landed on you.

Kha'Zix is even easier because he's also squishy, and he can't even match your burst. If you're going for the kill, ignite him as soon as you silence him so he doesn't regen too much HP from his W, and again, you want to burst with E Q R W simply because it's an extremely fast way to burst, and Kha will undoubtedly try to jump away.

Vs Rengar, you beat squishy assassin Rengar ( early-game, late-game he easily rapes you if he builds SotD ), and I haven't tested the match-up vs bruiser Rengar, but knowing how Talon tends to do vs bruisers, I would say advantage Rengar.

ViMAN wrote:
Hi man here is my talon build sugestion it gives you enough survivabiliteh and dmg to kill a carry and keep on fighiting*balanced teams*
boots of tenacity - for cc
maw of malmortius - for mr/merc scimitar -remove cc
bt - for dmg crazy!x2
guardian
last whisperer
gg dmg + tanky

That's still the same idea behind my build. 2nd BT is similar to Ravenous Hydra, GA is a big defensive item, which I recommend along with Warmog's, and the only difference is Maw of Malmortius. But I'd rather have Black Cleaver than Maw. It does more damage, gives you more armor shred so you can do near-true damage to squishies, and still has some survivability, as well as CDR which means more sticking power and more ults, which also gives you survivability.

Aresous wrote:
Also, if all the items were free, what would you have in your inventory? One of my games ended up having four The Bloodthirsters, one The Black Cleaver, and a Guardian Angel, does that make sense?

( I didn't take the Last Whisper because they weren't smart enough to build ANY armor )

You didn't have boots and boots are essential for making plays most of the time.

End-game with this type of build, I would have exactly what's on my cheat-sheet.

Mr.Saurus wrote:
Hey, Vapora I really love your guide and it helps me alot, especially since Talon is my favourite, especially after I took your advice and quit building him just like Shen (which needless to say, got me in a bad spot a lot of times). But I have 2 questions about your guide. They are the following:

#1
Wouldn't Frozen Mallet work decently on Talon seeing as the passive slows your opponent by 40%, making it easier for you to catch up and snatch the kill from that little rat which dares challenge Talon the Almighty?.

#2
Would using Randuin's omen as a defensive item hurt you badly?
I mean you get 500 health which isn't all bad and you get 70 armor, which never hurts but the active is what I'm talking about, you know the one that'll slow nearby enemies for 2 seconds (3 actually since you have more than 100 armor with da omen) which might help you and your team in scoring an ace or maybe helping your team escape a team fight gone-bad?

Thanks for reading
Your sincere fan
Mr.Saurus

Frozen Mallet isn't that good because Talon doesn't make much use of the slows. His E late-game with max CDR is already on a 6 second CD, so his gap closer isn't on that long a cooldown. The passive also doesn't synergize much with your passive when bursting an enemy because only one of your auto-attacks will receive more damage from Mercy. 30 also really isn't that big a deal.

In the end, you're buying Frozen Mallet if you want survivability, but Warmog's does that job better. Frozen Mallet is viable, but I don't like it.

Randuin's Omen is also viable, and it can be extremely useful when the enemy team has someone like Irelia or Vayne, enemies who are highly dependant on attack speed. But I would replace Warmog's with it, not a damage item.

vapora ive noticed you have been getting ghost blade every game now, should I get it now?

I've been using a different build entirely than what I've got on my cheat sheet, but it's a more advanced build because it has 0 defensive items, 0 lifesteal until the end of the game, and you need to know WHEN to activate Youmuu's to make the most out of it. Played correctly though, my new build is more effective than the other one, so here it is, in case you want to try it.

Brutalizer -> Tiamat -> Boots of Mobility -> Youmuu's -> Last Whisper -> Brutalizer -> Infinity Edge -> Black Cleaver -> Ravenous Hydra

I keep Boots of Mobility even late-game because the extra movement speed is amazing for catching people out, an opportunity which presents itself extremely often in solo queue. Also, building 2 items out of Brutalizer isn't bad because the UNIQUE part only affects that specific item. AKA, the unique ArPen on Black Cleaver doesn't mean you can't get the unique ArPen from Youmuu's, so by building the 2 of them, you get 30 extra ArPen in total. Along with masteries and the specific rune page I use, I get 40 armor penetration late-game, as well as 40% armor penetration, and Black Cleaver's armor shred.
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GodofClouds | June 23, 2013 1:52am
vapora ive noticed you have been getting ghost blade every game now, should I get it now?
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UltimateMedaljon | June 22, 2013 6:48am
I luv this guide keep going

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Mr.Saurus | June 21, 2013 1:04pm
Hey, Vapora I really love your guide and it helps me alot, especially since Talon is my favourite, especially after I took your advice and quit building him just like Shen (which needless to say, got me in a bad spot a lot of times). But I have 2 questions about your guide. They are the following:

#1
Wouldn't Frozen Mallet work decently on Talon seeing as the passive slows your opponent by 40%, making it easier for you to catch up and snatch the kill from that little rat which dares challenge Talon the Almighty?.

#2
Would using Randuin's omen as a defensive item hurt you badly?
I mean you get 500 health which isn't all bad and you get 70 armor, which never hurts but the active is what I'm talking about, you know the one that'll slow nearby enemies for 2 seconds (3 actually since you have more than 100 armor with da omen) which might help you and your team in scoring an ace or maybe helping your team escape a team fight gone-bad?

Thanks for reading
Your sincere fan
Mr.Saurus
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Lucorian5 (65) | June 19, 2013 11:41pm
LouisA. wrote:

I hate it when a team mate would bash me and accuse me of kill stealing getting triple kill and 2 double kills during team fights.Players like those, I really think they're dumb*sses.


Only pre level 30s or Bronze V's would ever rage over "killsteals"
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LouisA. (4) | June 19, 2013 5:37pm
I hate it when a team mate would bash me and accuse me of kill stealing getting triple kill and 2 double kills during team fights.Players like those, I really think they're dumb*sses.
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Aresous (1) | June 19, 2013 7:46am
+1 Great Job!!!

Lane match-up suggestions:

Lissandra Zed Kha'Zix

Would be great to have some tips on them. I can tell you one thing, Kha'Zix isn't too swell to go up against..

Also, if all the items were free, what would you have in your inventory? One of my games ended up having four The Bloodthirsters, one The Black Cleaver, and a Guardian Angel, does that make sense?

( I didn't take the Last Whisper because they weren't smart enough to build ANY armor )
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ViMAN | June 19, 2013 3:00am
Hi man here is my talon build sugestion it gives you enough survivabiliteh and dmg to kill a carry and keep on fighiting*balanced teams*
boots of tenacity - for cc
maw of malmortius - for mr/merc scimitar -remove cc
bt - for dmg crazy!x2
guardian
last whisperer
gg dmg + tanky
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LouisA. (4) | June 18, 2013 6:09pm
I've been following this guide for a year now. I stopped playing LoL like 2-3 months ago and then when I played last week, I still got the moves haha. well "Once an Assassin, always an Assassin."

Any thoughts about

Zed,Kha'zix,or Rengar against talon?
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 18, 2013 10:20am
I'd be level 8. ;/ ( or something )
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Lucorian5 (65) | June 18, 2013 7:51am


No wtf, you come to EU. :@

I was actually on NA like a month ago, but I forgot to add all my NA mobafire friends. :(


but then I'd be level one :/
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Vapora Dark (420) | June 18, 2013 7:33am
Lucorian5 wrote:

Log into the NA Server already...

No wtf, you come to EU. :@

I was actually on NA like a month ago, but I forgot to add all my NA mobafire friends. :(
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Lucorian5 (65) | June 17, 2013 9:32pm
Log into the NA Server already...
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d3lta shot | June 16, 2013 2:51am
i have something to say about the matchup with ap yi

to counter the ap yi you should keep your cutthroat for when he meditates as it stops the channeling
and when yi isn't meditating he's a squishy champ so you can burst him down

meditate also has a 30 second cd in the early game so you'll just want to do your combo as he q's to you and when he meditate you silence and BAM kill


really good guide overall:)
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Unityskill | June 14, 2013 11:46am
I have been using this build for about 5-6 months now and I get fed about 75% of the time. Ty vapora dark ;d
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jefhsi | June 11, 2013 11:07pm
Could you put up a guide on how to face Xerath?
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cakezxc | May 31, 2013 2:46am
Great build/guide you have there that have helped me won dozens of laning phase.

BTW can you post laning matchups against Ryze and Viktor? These are the 2 APs that I find very hard to deal with for Talon as they can easily out poke/out burst him by a far shot. Thanks in advance.
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Luftwaffel (1) | May 30, 2013 6:07pm
This is a fantastic guide. Talon has always been my best champ, but this has improved my skill using him dramatically. I appreciate it!
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Andor1211 | May 30, 2013 6:08am
Thank you for the quick answer, I will try this strategy next time I meet her, and hope that she does not build tanky. :)
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Vapora Dark (420) | May 29, 2013 8:45am

+1 +1 +1 Great build/ guide verry indepth and well thought out, it's clear to see why you may be the best Talon user in LoL. Two porblems I have with Talon 1) the loss of power late game, I had brutalizer/ sanguine blade/ last whisper/ b. of mobility/ infinity edge/ phage, I did my bursts and it was only enough to get the enemy Vi on 40% hp were when the burst ended I either died or escaped with only 6% hp remaining, 2) Talon is verry expensive (I dont actually own him but since he's free this week I'm going to spam as many battles as I can with him before I actually buy him).

You're not meant to be bursting people like Vi anyway, she's pretty tanky. You want to burst either the AP or AD carry, who should both be squishy. Also, Sanguine Blade is weaker than Bloodthirster. I assume you were playing Dominion. I don't have much experience with Dominion, so I can't help you there.

As someone said, his cost is being reduced to 4800 IP in the next patch. I'm waiting until then before buying him on my level 17 smurf. ;P

Vapora please help!

OK so I've been following your guide for atleast 6 months but lately I've been running into trouble.

People are starting to rush zhonyas and get armguard against me, I end up doing 1/4 of my bursts damage to them. Please help me to try and counter these situations.

Rush Last Whisper after The Brutalizer.

Fleaownz wrote:
I read through the List of champions who are eays, and who's not. I see you haven't added anyting to Orianna, and completely forgot Talon's biggest friend Xe'rath, It's obvious his passive alone already counters talon, I've never matched up against him and wondered what advice you have against that ****er

I stopped bothering with that chapter because I was correctly listing almost everything as easy, and the advice I was giving was common sense if you know what the champion's spells are, and "Burst him / her and you win".

Xerath is medium difficulty because his passive doesn't give him that much armor, but a good Xerath will never get in your range, he'll just farm from a very large distance. Talon can clear the wave and go gank in response.

Quick question,
My normal Talon build is glass cannon with tier 2 boots, Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, and 3 Bloodthirsters. A friend of mine believes that I should replace the Last Whisper with a fourth Black Cleaver because I am already running armour pen runes. Thoughts?

Stacking cleavers was great in pre-season 3 because the flat armor pen wasn't a unique passive, so building 4 cleavers gave you capped CDR, tons of tankiness, tons of armor pen and tons of AD, as well as making the armor shred shred max armor in a single hit.

Nowadays, it isn't that good because the flat armor pen is a unique passive. The only thing you gain from building a 2nd black cleaver is applying another armor shred stack faster. Last Whisper is much better than a 2nd Black Cleaver.

Andor1211 wrote:
Dear Vapora,

This is my favorite guide (Voted up), I really like to play Talon with your build, and I'm mostly successful, it doesn't matter which lane I take. I have one question though: I recently played mid lane against a Fiora, and she totally owned me. How would you play against her? Thank you for your answer in advance! :)

If she builds tanky she beats you. If she builds like an ADC, you can easily beat her at level 6. Just harass her from a distance with Rake as often as you can, and if she tries to engage on you just walk away, then keep harassing her. Whenever you think your burst will kill her, burst her. Activate Q straight away so it's the first auto-attack you do when you E on her, so she doesn't parry your Q. I would burst her with E Q R W. Activating R stops her from retalliating straight away with her ultimate ( or cancels it if she already used it ) and following it up with W means she will instantly take damage from both your W and your second R hit, which will most probably kill her.
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Absolute.0 (30) | May 29, 2013 5:18am
@Andor1211

I don't see how a Fiora can defeat you.

While she can parry your Noxian Diplomacy via Riposte, it's easy enough to attack first before Q. Since you max Rake first she has defense against it. So long as it hits you should be depleting her HP quick enough.

If it's her ult you can simply Shadow Assault and if there's no other champ for her to hit it'll cancel itself.
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Andor1211 | May 29, 2013 4:22am
Dear Vapora,

This is my favorite guide (Voted up), I really like to play Talon with your build, and I'm mostly successful, it doesn't matter which lane I take. I have one question though: I recently played mid lane against a Fiora, and she totally owned me. How would you play against her? Thank you for your answer in advance! :)
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jefhsi | May 28, 2013 9:50pm
@PuppetMaster9454

Black Cleavers don't stack (NERF). The last whisperer is essential for taking down high armored targets (also does more dmg anyway). Go with some defense, theres no need to stack so many bts.
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PuppetMaster9454 | May 28, 2013 6:15am
Quick question,
My normal Talon build is glass cannon with tier 2 boots, Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, and 3 Bloodthirsters. A friend of mine believes that I should replace the Last Whisper with a fourth Black Cleaver because I am already running armour pen runes. Thoughts?
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Jaava Let Dahaka | May 27, 2013 4:45pm
I. LOVE. THIS. FREAKING. GUIDE!!! Seriously, if I could post my wins, which I'm keeping track of by posting my screenshots on Paint, I'd show you all!!! Eight Games, 7 wins and one loss, averages are 10.8/4.3/11.8. I LOVE YOUR GUIDE!!!
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Fleaownz (1) | May 25, 2013 6:55am
I read through the List of champions who are eays, and who's not. I see you haven't added anyting to Orianna, and completely forgot Talon's biggest friend Xe'rath, It's obvious his passive alone already counters talon, I've never matched up against him and wondered what advice you have against that ****er
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SayoNaara | May 24, 2013 5:08pm
I really had a lot of fun reading your guide and I think you just made me fell in love with that champ'
Thanks a lot
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Kenpari | May 24, 2013 9:02am
Great guide. I managed to go 16/1/13 my first time as Talon using your build advice and strategies after just one 10/0 bots game. It works very well. I find that boots of mobility are definitely a solid choice for early game and assist with ganks an extreme amount, especially if you're doing good with mid; I swapped out for mercury's treads late game as I became prone to CC in teamfights.
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Esu3 | May 24, 2013 1:18am
yea malzahar is a good machup for talon but not so easy ... after the silence if you dont one shot he will just use e+w+r and you will probably dead
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EvilGermanSquirrel | May 23, 2013 11:39pm
I only tried this build cause I wanted to be good at Talon =P
First game, 6/1 (they surrendered at 20), most farm, got a double under the turret.
This build rocks =)
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M3T4H3DR0N | May 23, 2013 9:52pm
dude, props. Granted all I've played with Talon so far has been a bot match, I went 44/1/1 with two pentakills. Went total AD build rounding it off with a warmogs and merc treads. I was able to tank all 5 of the enemy team, get the penta, plus walked away with 30% health. Of course that would be suicide against players, but I haven't been able to pull that off with anyone on the FIRST run. You definitely earned my vote.
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Thatotherguy6 (2) | May 23, 2013 4:00pm
@D34thPhO3n1x
I have found out that Talon and Riven should go down in IP price when Aatrox comes out. I assume that will be in about the middle of June. They should be 4800 IP. Not sure but its my closest guess.
P.S. @Vapora
When you think about it some champions labeled "assassins" are normally built like bruisers such as Lee Sin or Nocturne. But I think that only applies to "assassins" who cant escape very easily. Talon should be played as a glass cannon but i just felt like pointing out this technicality.
P.P.S. I saw bruiser Talon and I thought it was horrible.
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Thunderosly (2) | May 22, 2013 10:00pm
Great guide first 2 games did great! and its talon free week
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GodofClouds | May 22, 2013 7:47pm
Vapora please help!

OK so I've been following your guide for atleast 6 months but lately I've been running into trouble.

People are starting to rush zhonyas and get armguard against me, I end up doing 1/4 of my bursts damage to them. Please help me to try and counter these situations.
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D34thPhO3n1x (4) | May 21, 2013 8:11pm
Thatotherguy6
"i think his ip price gets reduced."

When would you say his price is going to be reduced because I'm in a piccle between deciding to buy Talon or getting somebody els.
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Thatotherguy6 (2) | May 21, 2013 6:12pm
Talon is free this week so I decided to try your build in bots. I got 25/0/16. I must buy Talon after Aatrox comes out, i think his ip price gets reduced. Couldn't have realized how strong Talon was without your guide so thanks. P.S. I realized that ewq can make it hard to land the w because of how you are placed so I guess your combo works (eqw) actually does work better.
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D34thPhO3n1x (4) | May 21, 2013 2:52pm
+1 +1 +1 Great build/ guide verry indepth and well thought out, it's clear to see why you may be the best Talon user in LoL. Two porblems I have with Talon 1) the loss of power late game, I had brutalizer/ sanguine blade/ last whisper/ b. of mobility/ infinity edge/ phage, I did my bursts and it was only enough to get the enemy Vi on 40% hp were when the burst ended I either died or escaped with only 6% hp remaining, 2) Talon is verry expensive (I dont actually own him but since he's free this week I'm going to spam as many battles as I can with him before I actually buy him).
Also my take on Talon versus Malzahar is that the winner is whoever gets there combo's out first, if Malz has over 400 AP and he gets his combo out (Null Zone/ Melefic Visions/ Nether Grasp/ Ignite (this is the combo I use to insta kill tanks)) then Talon will fall extremly hard whereas with Talon once he starts his combo then Malz is dead, so again its whoever can start there combo first who's the victor (a thing to consider is that Nether Grasp actually stops Talon in his tracks preventing escape/ activation of his combo and Ignite can be cast while channeling + Malz's voidling will be out by now and will start attacking).
Thanks again for the build/ guide I'm getting fed like crazy and I have only been in 10 matches with Talon (it's all thanks to you guide), P.S. sorry for the long post I wanted to get my message out...
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Nelsathis | May 21, 2013 3:04am
I still disagree. He has a silence, you have one. Talons will hit but has far less impact than Malza's.
IF he hits pre 6 (and as a experienced malza its not that hard since you know where Talon will be) Talon leaves the fight more damaged. IF it its after 6 Talon is dead. (always assuming you jumped to him). +in an all in situation Talon has the jungler disadvantage.

Its just as this, against a good Malza you have none of the advantages you have against other caster.

But after this isnt the right place for long discussion about only one matchup, this was the las comment i write to this topic.
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Vapora Dark (420) | May 20, 2013 12:09pm

Excellent overall guide. Its taking me a while to master the early game, but by level 6 or 7 i can gank no problem. My only suggestion would be including a sword of the occult. It gives just as much AD as a bloodthirster, and the movement speed boost is very helpful. You lose out on life steal, but since most damage is burst anyway it didn't bother me. I wind up usually doing two bloodthirsters, black cleaver, sword, last whisper, and boots of something. Thoughts on that?

Sword of the Occult gives as much AD at max stacks as a Bloodthirster, but is much harder to max up, and much harder to maintain. I also value the lifesteal from Bloodthirster over the movement speed from Sword of the Occult.

Nelsathis wrote:
Just one thing, a big no to your Malzahar thing. Sure, if you play against a bot, who may react like you describe ist, this may work. But its a mistake to think that you are the only one who can react to your enemies.
As Malza: You are squishy, you dont have an escape.. so you push the lane? You dont even need talon to punish this, every jungler can.
But you are a great duelist and this also counts towards talon. You exactly do this 1 times. You have to be at least lvl 3 to burst him, but what happens then? Hes silenced, bursted and you freely run away? no..
As Malza you also have a silence, which, though, isnt that relyable as talons, but it lasts longer and if you KNOW someone jumps on you its an easy hit. What then? You are at his face, you run away, but you cant GET away in this 1 second and e+voidling are devastating for you, if your not dead already if he also ignites you.

Of yourse you said you will burst him AFTER he used his E, but i just wanted to show that this will never happen against a good malza at all. after 6 its even more devastating. (Malzas problem with ad mids isnt the lane, its the scimitar later on, and this ONLY counts on melee mids)

Malzahar does well vs Talon pre-6, but Talon has the post-6 advantage. He can use his full burst on you and walk away untouched under stealth, leaving you on 30-40% HP. Then he can burst again to kill you.

Coquie wrote:
Isn't Frozen Mallet a good item on Talon? You could consider buying this instead of Warmog's Armor since it helps to your passive while adding a lot of health.
Anyways, the guide is great. :)

It's viable, but the whole point of Warmogg's / Frozen Mallet is to make you tankier. 30 AD and a slow is nice, but neglectible. 300 HP is pretty big, really.

If you want to take Mallet, you can, but as a defensive buy Warmogg's Armor is better, and Frozen Mallet doesn't give enough AD to be considered an offensive buy. It's kind of a mix between offense, defense and utility.

SirKnox wrote:
If I am not mistaken, this item isn't great on Talon, because the 40% chance slow is pretty useless on him due to his attack speed rate. I usually only get about two basic attacks off if a burst before they run, or I fall back. Either way, 40% chance of two is highly unlikely.

As someone pointed out, it has a 100% slow chance. The reason that sucks so bad is that the first auto-attack won't proc Mercy, so you'll only proc Mercy on a single auto-attack in your burst with FroMal.

Cryoshell1 wrote:
Congratulations not only were you being an ***, but you also didn't answer the question!

If someone can answer my question in a civil manner feel free to do so.

GrandmasterD is correct in saying they are "****" items on Talon. ****, bad, unviable, whatever you want to call it.

Muramana is bad because it offers only 2 things: damage and mana.

1. Does it give as much damage as you could get from another item, even if you already have 1 of said item? ( i.e. Bloodthirster ) No, so if you want damage, there are better options.

2. Does Talon have any late-game mana problems? No, so you don't really want mana either. It's good on Kha'Zix because Kha has a spammable long range, high damage, high mana cost poke, and even with a blue buff he can find himself going OOM quite often. Talon doesn't suffer the same problem, and even with no blue you won't go OOM nearly as often because you won't be poking with W much, and it costs much less mana anyway, even if you were spamming it. I'm also not sure if it's even possible to go OOM with a blue buff on Talon. x.x

BotRK isn't good because you're not attack speed reliant, its passive scales on attack speed, the AD is tiny, and the active isn't really OMGWTF damage. It's easily beaten by a BT / LW / Cleaver / Hydra / IE...
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Nelsathis | May 20, 2013 2:35am
Mhh, Botrk COULD be a very situational item i think. It helps you to finish off the last few hp of the enemy because its active helps you hitting him and with the help of your passive slaying whats left after your combo. BUT for this its just way to expensive, and if you replace it with a bt he would be dead anyway. + in teamfights you dont want to aa your opponent after your combo. Or just you CANT do it. so... no, dont get it.

Manamune: well, you arent that different to Kha'zix and on him its a really good item. But your teamfight presence is a bit different, + your ult gives you aoe damage with a pretty good scaling (Kha'zix ult synergyzes a bit better with muramana). Its not that bad i think but since you dont have other items its not that good just for the toggle, because you cast your q max 2 times in a fight.
And the tear delays your build.
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Cryoshell1 | May 19, 2013 1:44pm

Because they are both **** items on Talon.



Congratulations not only were you being an ***, but you also didn't answer the question!

If someone can answer my question in a civil manner feel free to do so.
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GrandmasterD (503) | May 19, 2013 12:52pm
Cryoshell1 wrote:

Great guide as always but I noticed that Manamune/Muramana and BORK isn't in here...Any reasons as to why? Muramana would ramp up his Q damage by quite a bit, solve his mana issues, and give him a solid amount of AD, whereas BORK can make his burst have an extra element as well as make his hard-hitting AA's all the more faster.


Because they are both **** items on Talon.
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Cryoshell1 | May 19, 2013 12:48pm
Great guide as always but I noticed that Manamune/Muramana and BORK isn't in here...Any reasons as to why? Muramana would ramp up his Q damage by quite a bit, solve his mana issues, and give him a solid amount of AD, whereas BORK can make his burst have an extra element as well as make his hard-hitting AA's all the more faster.
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Albo1125 (28) | May 16, 2013 11:01am
Add Lissandra to the Matchups please. Great guide +1 =)
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SirKnox (4) | May 16, 2013 5:31am
Wow, you're right.... I don't know how I missed that. :)
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Nelsathis | May 15, 2013 6:49pm
SirKnox wrote:

If I am not mistaken, this item isn't great on Talon, because the 40% chance slow is pretty useless on him due to his attack speed rate. I usually only get about two basic attacks off if a burst before they run, or I fall back. Either way, 40% chance of two is highly unlikely.


You are mistaken, because you didnt read the item right, sry.
FM slows with EVERY hit, and its a 40% slow. So they cant run away easily.

But it doesnt really matter because it still isnt a good item on him. Its really expensive and gives you, besides the slow, only 30ad. Of course it makes your autoattack a bit stronger, but this is what your w does anyway and you dont want to autoattack forever, because you are an assassin and not an ad-carry.
If you get caught (which will happen most likely if you just autoattack) you will die, no matter you have 700 more hp or not. So you should by damage to kill your target instantly and have a chance of getting out BEFORE you get caught by anything.
Just take a teamfight with Taric in the enemy team. You see him using his stun on someone else: your chance to go in. Now you have about 8 seconds to do your thing before its up again (considering he's the only cc source)which means, get stunned and die. If you build damage your target will die and you get out in 2-3 seconds.
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SirKnox (4) | May 14, 2013 4:37pm
Coquie wrote:

Isn't Frozen Mallet a good item on Talon? You could consider buying this instead of Warmog's Armor since it helps to your passive while adding a lot of health.

Anyways, the guide is great. :)


If I am not mistaken, this item isn't great on Talon, because the 40% chance slow is pretty useless on him due to his attack speed rate. I usually only get about two basic attacks off if a burst before they run, or I fall back. Either way, 40% chance of two is highly unlikely.
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Coquie | May 14, 2013 1:46am
Isn't Frozen Mallet a good item on Talon? You could consider buying this instead of Warmog's Armor since it helps to your passive while adding a lot of health.
Anyways, the guide is great. :)
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the_ivor | May 12, 2013 11:23am
Wow, this guide is AWESOME!!! <3 i needed about 30min to reed, because of i´m not english XD
usually i play jax or mordekaiser, but talon is a god of the league. i´ll make it to my main :)
thanks a lot for this guide
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Nelsathis | May 12, 2013 1:31am
Great guide, i love you for describing how Talon HAS to build damage, i love him myself and i dont know how often i've gotten into arguements because of this. (though the ''you are an assassin, build like it'' dont have to be true for all of them imo)

Just one thing, a big no to your Malzahar thing. Sure, if you play against a bot, who may react like you describe ist, this may work. But its a mistake to think that you are the only one who can react to your enemies.
As Malza: You are squishy, you dont have an escape.. so you push the lane? You dont even need talon to punish this, every jungler can.
But you are a great duelist and this also counts towards talon. You exactly do this 1 times. You have to be at least lvl 3 to burst him, but what happens then? Hes silenced, bursted and you freely run away? no..
As Malza you also have a silence, which, though, isnt that relyable as talons, but it lasts longer and if you KNOW someone jumps on you its an easy hit. What then? You are at his face, you run away, but you cant GET away in this 1 second and e+voidling are devastating for you, if your not dead already if he also ignites you.

Of yourse you said you will burst him AFTER he used his E, but i just wanted to show that this will never happen against a good malza at all. after 6 its even more devastating. (Malzas problem with ad mids isnt the lane, its the scimitar later on, and this ONLY counts on melee mids)
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MisterE1787 | May 10, 2013 7:56pm
Excellent overall guide. Its taking me a while to master the early game, but by level 6 or 7 i can gank no problem. My only suggestion would be including a sword of the occult. It gives just as much AD as a bloodthirster, and the movement speed boost is very helpful. You lose out on life steal, but since most damage is burst anyway it didn't bother me. I wind up usually doing two bloodthirsters, black cleaver, sword, last whisper, and boots of something. Thoughts on that?
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NorthernRedStar (80) | May 6, 2013 3:36am
I have admit that Ravenous Hydra is godly on Talon. Not only does it allow you to trade with bruiser for some time, but it gives you that last spice when you are scoring that double kill.
Today I saw them pick Twisted Fate and counter-picked Talon. 11-1-7, and late game he's dead before he has even time to draw any cards. To be fair our jungler was very good and ganked a few times. Rake takes off 1/3 of Vayne's health as well >:D

Talon has to be the most underestimated assassin in the game right now. You're able to decimate their APC with only W,E,Q and Hydra's active. Talon is definitely joining my roster of preferred champions. You can even dodge skillshots that'd kill you with E. It doesn't matter if the pop a shield or barrier. Late game Talon doesn't fall off, he shines in the late game.
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Klauthor | May 5, 2013 8:09pm
Hello Vapora, I am a Talon enthusiast and my name is Dean, username klauthor. I don't like to brag, but I often do well with Talon, and while I normally don't use guides, my build is virtually identical to your guide anyway.

One thing I would suggest you try out is CDR glyphs and quints, with CDR in masteries, runes and on the brutaliser, you can have a LOT of CDR without blue. It is riskier to be without the MR and MS, but I find it pays off a lot.

Also, something that is common sense to long-time Talon players but not new ones, don't always start a fight with cutthroat. If the enemy team has a Katarina or a Nunu etc. save your cutthroat for their ult. Nothing is more satisfying than seeing a Kat go balls-deep only for you to cancel her ult and leave her standing in your team.

In short, I am here to say this is a great guide to Talon and that anyone looking to play Talon should have a good read of it.
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1sKo | May 5, 2013 2:02pm
I think the image says all.. Thankyou!!!.
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Soramage | May 4, 2013 3:38pm
This is a great guide, taught me a lot about playing talon (which I've only used 1 before).
One thing though is the Frozen Mallet, not so much for its health but for its passive: Slows targets movement speed by 40%. That coupled with talons passive makes every basic attack after the first a slow, would it be a good item even if i has really low ad?
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Heero Valentine (1) | May 3, 2013 5:49am
:) Thanks for the guide, it made me use Talon again after not using him for quite some time.
Sucks I can't build a Hydra because of my laptop's screen freezing up because of the animation :P.
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NorthernRedStar (80) | May 2, 2013 12:19pm
God, I want to learn Talon mid! But he's just so friggin' hard to farm with compared to other ranged mid laners.

And I'm playing premade with a few unexperienced players =D for practise. Gonna go ranked with him soon I think.
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Funktos (1) | May 1, 2013 2:26pm
At first, I thought, "Ravenous Hydra sucks! The active isn't even good." I was so wrong, I am going to build it nearly every game now. Won so many of my games as Talon today.

P.S. I hate seeker's armguard.

My build differs a bit from you, I love to get Wing Boots and grab a Zephyr if I keep getting caught. Split pushing is sick and I can still 1 burst kill ADCs.

In almost ALL my games, I lose until level 3-4. 4-6 I get a bit of damage, but still get spanked. 6 is when I have fun. My tactics is to take damage, but have them get rake'd too. Perhaps one burst, retreat until Cutthroat is off CD, then all in them. Destroys almost all mids at level 6, with the exception of the pesky lux's with shields.
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riverwolf | April 29, 2013 2:58pm
Awesome Guide! It has improved my talon game a lot and it just helped me carry my team to a ranked victory. I was against an AP Yi, and I found that talon seemed to counter him. The burst is enough to kill, and if you pop an ignite on him early, it shuts down is heal enough to finish him. Thanks again!
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Pineapple2407 | April 25, 2013 8:47am
In the match-up list you didnt put any text at the Orianna part
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 24, 2013 3:43pm
Lol. :P
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Satella (177) | April 24, 2013 2:13pm
Yeah I'm ******ed, I swear I remember his passive being "Talon deals 10% more damage to enemies who are slowed, immobilized, or suppressed" but apparently I'm totally wrong. :(
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 24, 2013 2:03pm
Mercy only affects auto-attacks. In-game it states "on basic attacks", and the mobafire tooltip says "on auto-attacks".

Starting with Rake does more damage early-game because Cutthroat only amplifies it by 3% anyway, so having 10% extra damage on both your autos is more useful. But late-game / when you're ganking, you probably won't get near enough to your enemy to use W before jumping, and you need the silence there to stop them from flashing, as you said.

Starting with W does more damage, and it's easy to use in-lane, but gl getting near enough to use do it in team-fights. :P
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Satella (177) | April 23, 2013 11:16pm
You're correct in stating that using W first in a combo leads to overall higher damage due to Mercy (which, by the way, amplifies all damage, not just autoattack damageI'm ******ed, ignore). However, Rake gives you away and can potentially allow an enemy to flash out, especially when you are ganking. The idea is to teleport in instantly and do as much damage as possible while they're silenced (no flash during silences).
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Thatotherguy6 (2) | April 23, 2013 11:13pm
Nevermind, just looked at earlier comment and answer.
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Thatotherguy6 (2) | April 23, 2013 11:12pm
I have a question. For your combo you go e,aa,q,w,r. But,rake causes a slow and q counts as an aa. Talon's passive increases aa damage on enemies affected by movement inhibiting cc. So why don't you use rake first then noxian diplomacy for more damage output? I have only played talon once during a free week so there may be something i don't know about. Care to explain?
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IanMoreira | April 23, 2013 6:40am
It's because of you Vapora that I absolutely love playing with Talon. +1 on this guide!

I have a doubt; instead of using Movement Speed Quintessence, won't I have a better early game if I use Armor Penetration? I usually use boots of mobility, since I switch lanes very often to get kills, and I think that I would have a better early game if I had more ArPen. Do you agree?
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xKazeSenoue | April 21, 2013 8:10pm
I just bought Talon yesterday and won 10 ranked games in a row with him. Best thing I've ever done. I love you.
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jefhsi | April 21, 2013 8:00pm
I found the blade of the ruined king to be very effective against opponents when you have used your entire set on an opponent (and they don't die). Any chance of testing it out and adding it as part of an optional build?
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xKazeSenoue | April 21, 2013 7:03am
Wow. This guide is AMAZING. I love you. I really do. This was my first Talon match:
They surrendered at 20 minutes =p

So, I decided to go a ranked game...
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 21, 2013 3:37am
Best start, but I'm too lazy to update. Apparently it's getting nerfed in the next patch anyway.
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TheBlueReaper (20) | April 21, 2013 12:09am
Hey Vapora, dunno if anyone has already asked, but why not start Fort Pot ?
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Nekito1328 | April 19, 2013 8:06pm
It's really good and really helpful advices. i really like it :)
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Jomajo | April 18, 2013 1:12am
Hi Vapora, have u any videos how u playing in mid?
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G1BB3RS | April 14, 2013 7:41pm
OK then I'll stick to your combos.
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 14, 2013 7:48am
Precisely what Satella said, it's a matter of burst speed. What you said does more damage, but leaves them more time to flash out, whereas leaving Rake for after Q gives them less time and only does SLIGHTLY less damage.
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Satella (177) | April 14, 2013 7:26am
You can't autoattack when the Rake projectiles are out. It's a really long time; could mean the difference between them getting 100-0'd or flashing out.
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G1BB3RS | April 14, 2013 6:05am
Just a query, why do you not use Rake as the second spell in your burst after Cutthroat to get the 10% Mercy amplification on Noxian Diplomacy/AA, surely that has the greatest damage output?
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SirAeros (7) | April 11, 2013 1:04pm


Probably, I was actually going to try that soon.


It's always been better than BT, even before BT's nerf and Hydra's buff.

I do currently start red pot + 1 ward + 4 pots, but I haven't gotten round to updating that yet.


To be fair the worst part of it was figuring out that its pretty much a copy from my Dominion Talon Build lol Heck the best part was the Guy combining the two main variations of my build into a 1 Glass-Cannon Lategame build LOL
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 10, 2013 12:02pm
SirAeros wrote:

Well Vapora I got bad news I started seeing a fair share of Talons on High Elo Lately Rushing Hydra
Which means our Secret OP Talon Item since the end of the BC Era may come to a end >>


also you said you prefer getting a BT just after Tiamat wouldn't for the same cost be better just upping to hydra and Getting a LW

Probably, I was actually going to try that soon.

Quoted:
No wonder after Ravenous Hydra got that big buff.

BTW: Why not start red pot + 6 pots?

It's always been better than BT, even before BT's nerf and Hydra's buff.

I do currently start red pot + 1 ward + 4 pots, but I haven't gotten round to updating that yet.
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NicknameMy (153) | April 10, 2013 10:48am
No wonder after Ravenous Hydra got that big buff.

BTW: Why not start red pot + 6 pots?
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SirAeros (7) | April 9, 2013 4:00pm
Well Vapora I got bad news I started seeing a fair share of Talons on High Elo Lately Rushing Hydra
Which means our Secret OP Talon Item since the end of the BC Era may come to a end >>


also you said you prefer getting a BT just after Tiamat wouldn't for the same cost be better just upping to hydra and Getting a LW
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IceHound | April 9, 2013 12:02pm
Nice guide Vapora, nice to see people like you are help teaching people about how to play talon, I suck at teaching but you did an amazing job at showing the path of playing talon.
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 9, 2013 8:23am

So...first off: created my account to vote this guide up. Wealth of information to a Talon Noob like me.

I checked this out, played a game, and now believe that Talon needs a heavy nerf. No, not really, but HOLY **** this guide and build made me feel completely OP.

Previous game I managed to go something like 11-1-4 (don't have access to LoL at the moment), and only got to the Black Cleaver and first Bloodthirster before the enemy team threw in the towel.

I haven't gotten all the runes yet for this build (nor am I even level 30), but with what I have, I managed to crush the heck out of Galeo, then Kat when they swapped mid, then Blitz when HE swapped to mid.

I once had the enemy support come mid to help them l0l. Failed completely because my bot lane got fed on the 2v1. This was at like ~1400 Elo too lol.

@DeffDeala, already responded to your PM. ^^
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DeffDeala | April 9, 2013 7:06am
Hi Vapora,

At the moment all I play mid is Katarina and I need to have another champion ready because I want to go ranked. Would Talon be a good substitute champion for her? i consider myself a fairly good Katarina and was wondering is Talon the champion that is very similar to her?

Thanks :)
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ZadkielBoros | April 8, 2013 1:33pm
So...first off: created my account to vote this guide up. Wealth of information to a Talon Noob like me.

I checked this out, played a game, and now believe that Talon needs a heavy nerf. No, not really, but HOLY **** this guide and build made me feel completely OP.

Previous game I managed to go something like 11-1-4 (don't have access to LoL at the moment), and only got to the Black Cleaver and first Bloodthirster before the enemy team threw in the towel.

I haven't gotten all the runes yet for this build (nor am I even level 30), but with what I have, I managed to crush the heck out of Galeo, then Kat when they swapped mid, then Blitz when HE swapped to mid.
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Khell | April 6, 2013 9:23am
Really nice Guide!

Played Talon a lot in Season 2 befor going on a long LoL break. This Guide helped me make up for the missed Patches for Season 3!

+1
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G1BB3RS | April 5, 2013 8:21am
Great guide, well explained and thought through. Works too +1
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DarkAkumaLord (61) | April 4, 2013 9:00pm
Talon r nerf is preventing me from playing him
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Wageris | April 4, 2013 11:03am
Soooo.....I had a quick look at this guide and decided to try Talon in some non ranked games im a big fan of 3v3 so thats what i did. It resulted in first 6 games being easy victories with the following scores: 16/5/8....10/1/6...11/3/12....15/5/7...19/7/8....11/3/6 All games were won due to Talons performance so i dont care how many people complain about HP builds for this character...YOU DONT NEED IT!
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SirAeros (7) | April 4, 2013 10:20am

yay 88%. Getting closer to 90%. :D **** 8-% looks so ugly imo.


It's not just in team-fights, it's in small skirmishes that can happen both before and after team-fights. If you give a 5 item Talon a Trinity Force, you can easily 1v2 an ADC and a bruiser, and if you get into a 3v3 skirmish, your team will probably win it. No one expects so much DPS from you. :P The problem is getting into those small skirmishes. Unfortunately, jumping onto an enemy team and trying to dps the **** out of them when they're 5 doesn't work. :(


FFFFFFFFF. I mean that even though it's usually a big pile of ****, in very very very rare situations, it can work, therefore it's a very situational item.

Kapeesh? :P


Except that you can do that with Ghostblade except that you didn't Dummped 4 k gold in a Item
which also compromises your AoE Dmg alot more(and also by experience Burst AoE+Clean Up DPS is the way to go to win any Squirmish-only thing superior is Having an Amumumu-Darius Comp hue) also situations you decribe tend to last 6-8 secs just enough for you to Burst and Enjoy the active also in case you are focusing a damn tank CDR for Talon is his AS due to his Q being an AA Reset and the fact that he will get more dmg amps and Ws from a fight

I tell you from experience I played Talon for pretty much as much time as you or even more.I have been messsinp up with Yommus since S2 and pretty much bough the item in every single AD Champ(From people wich Yommus is standart or obvious like Yi and Xin Zhao-if you wanna dmg- to even on people it seems stupid like Trundle-Heck that **** is Hylaious as F*** get Yommus Drain ad and Resist and **** on any AD lololololol add Randuins or FH for Even more Funzies) and messed it up with Talon since midish-end S2 and I can say for sure it in all the cases I felt it was better than Trinity on a whole

Also you can Trust me a bit more in Items or you don't remenber who told you about Hydra Talon :P
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 4, 2013 7:18am
yay 88%. Getting closer to 90%. :D **** 8-% looks so ugly imo.

SirAeros wrote:
Well Vapora in most teamfights you would be LUCKY to get more than 6 secs of DPS in a team since most cases the best you can do is Go in back off wait for CDs and Blow **** up again and than use active to clean **** up

and Vapora you just mentioned the most popular AD Assassin build at High Dom(Lack of BT is OP) and simply do it that **** is almost as Good as Dual Cleaver+LW+Bruta in the Good ol Days I mean I once 1v1ed a Darius with a Damn Sunfire on Dom(the bastard beated me with an OP Dual Thornmail Combo) which would be something even in the SR where you can get a full build in 36 mins out of being so Fed

It's not just in team-fights, it's in small skirmishes that can happen both before and after team-fights. If you give a 5 item Talon a Trinity Force, you can easily 1v2 an ADC and a bruiser, and if you get into a 3v3 skirmish, your team will probably win it. No one expects so much DPS from you. :P The problem is getting into those small skirmishes. Unfortunately, jumping onto an enemy team and trying to dps the **** out of them when they're 5 doesn't work. :(

Satella wrote:
It doesn't make any sense. Sorry. :P

FFFFFFFFF. I mean that even though it's usually a big pile of ****, in very very very rare situations, it can work, therefore it's a very situational item.

Kapeesh? :P
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Satella (177) | April 3, 2013 4:16pm

Edit: Trinity Force sucks super hard on him, but if you're super hyper mega fed and your team are complete ******s and everyone is 0/10, it's time to shout YOLO and grab Trinity Force to try and DPS the **** out of them with your epic feed. Sometimes it works and you turn the game around, sometimes it doesn't.

99% of the time, it sucks. But at the same time, it's viable, if that makes any sense. :>

It doesn't make any sense. Sorry. :P
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SirAeros (7) | April 3, 2013 4:09pm

Yeah, but Trinity is CONSTANT DPS, youmuu's has a 45 second CD. :> It would technically be better to tag it "burst dps". And 250 HP is better than nothing. :P At least it does actually have a stat that makes it safer to DPS the enemy team, while Youmuu's has 0 survivability built in to it.

I do find it funny though, that you can cheat the Black Cleaver's nerf into "UNIQUE passive" by upgrading to Black Cleaver then just building another Brutalizer. :> I wouldn't do it in a serious game, but it's something I have been meaning to try out. Black Cleaver, Youmuu's, Brutalizer and Last Whisper LOL.


Well Vapora in most teamfights you would be LUCKY to get more than 6 secs of DPS in a team since most cases the best you can do is Go in back off wait for CDs and Blow **** up again and than use active to clean **** up

and Vapora you just mentioned the most popular AD Assassin build at High Dom(Lack of BT is OP) and simply do it that **** is almost as Good as Dual Cleaver+LW+Bruta in the Good ol Days I mean I once 1v1ed a Darius with a Damn Sunfire on Dom(the bastard beated me with an OP Dual Thornmail Combo) which would be something even in the SR where you can get a full build in 36 mins out of being so Fed
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 3, 2013 4:00pm
Yeah, but Trinity is CONSTANT DPS, youmuu's has a 45 second CD. :> It would technically be better to tag it "burst dps". And 250 HP is better than nothing. :P At least it does actually have a stat that makes it safer to DPS the enemy team, while Youmuu's has 0 survivability built in to it.

I do find it funny though, that you can cheat the Black Cleaver's nerf into "UNIQUE passive" by upgrading to Black Cleaver then just building another Brutalizer. :> I wouldn't do it in a serious game, but it's something I have been meaning to try out. Black Cleaver, Youmuu's, Brutalizer and Last Whisper LOL.
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SirAeros (7) | April 3, 2013 3:41pm


Yeah, but it's 2700 gold for 30 AD and 20 ArPen. And unless you're willing to forgoe defenses, the only viable item to replace it with is BT.

Edit: Trinity Force sucks super hard on him, but if you're super hyper mega fed and your team are complete ******s and everyone is 0/10, it's time to shout YOLO and grab Trinity Force to try and DPS the **** out of them with your epic feed. Sometimes it works and you turn the game around, sometimes it doesn't.

99% of the time, it sucks. But at the same time, it's viable, if that makes any sense. :>


err what I'm saying is actually that YG Outclasses Trinity in that same role you said

I mean lets compare:

Trinity Force cost 3903(or IDK how it costs nowadays) for 250 HP(which in the league of Warmogs is like nothing) and a Proc(which is outclassed by 20 pen) as the rest is uselless stats or Yommus already have alongside(and still gets 10% CDR) meaning with YG you can get like a Full Component Item over TF.


Take in Consideration that the real Benefit from Trinity only by ACTUALLY COMPLETING IT it since all of its components are weak on Talon at best while Bruta well its F**** BRUTA NUFF Said and while Avarice its not really great its still a GP5 and heck 90% of time you don't even buy it due to how cheap
is to upp Bruta into Yommus


PS:in a complete random thing what do you think of Dat sexy Udyr Q change with that i will be able to Rock my OP build with him a gain YAY
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 3, 2013 3:05pm
SirAeros wrote:



Vapora you underrate Ghostbalde a bit sure its not like the best Talon item ever

but still 10x better than the Trininty Force(which you actually say its viable blergh)

you have to take a note that Ghostblade was like overbuffed this season and gives more and less twice the pen it gave Heck with Cleaver-GB-LW and Apen Reds and Quints you can turn 90 Armor to 0 without Cleaver

Yeah, but it's 2700 gold for 30 AD and 20 ArPen. And unless you're willing to forgoe defenses, the only viable item to replace it with is BT.

Edit: Trinity Force sucks super hard on him, but if you're super hyper mega fed and your team are complete ******s and everyone is 0/10, it's time to shout YOLO and grab Trinity Force to try and DPS the **** out of them with your epic feed. Sometimes it works and you turn the game around, sometimes it doesn't.

99% of the time, it sucks. But at the same time, it's viable, if that makes any sense. :>
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SirAeros (7) | April 3, 2013 1:41pm


Actually, a massive burst build would be my beginners' build, and the "balanced" one I have right now is for intermediates / experienced players. :P If you run into a team-fight with 1.9k HP you just instantly melt. Not so much at level ~20 because players aren't smart enough to focus you at that level, but at any respectable Elo players will focus you if you're a glass cannon.

There IS a bigger burst build which is what I use though. Boots > Brutalizer > Tiamat > BT > Last Whisper > Black Cleaver > Warmog's > Ravenous Hydra. It's just flat out better than what I have on the cheat sheet right now, because Tiamat's active is super broken on burst casters. However, no one realizes that, and I usually get flamed at in-game for taking Tiamat, because they're too dumb to read the active. For that very same reason I don't rush Tiamat after Brutalizer in the cheat sheet; I don't want to get instantly down-voted by people too stupid to read why I take it.

There's also the fact that, like I said, it's broken, and the less people that know that, the better, so I both don't have to play against it, and don't have to have it nerfed if it becomes popular.

Just so long as you remember to use Tiamat's active, you will definitely notice a large increase in burst as soon as you complete Tiamat. If you feel like you don't need any sustain either, take Last Whisper BEFORE BT, because that actually does more damage. I take BT for sustain, 'cuz Vamp scepter on it's own don't cut it.

Also, always upgrade Tiamat to Ravenous Hydra after you've completed the rest of your build, 'cuz while Tiamat is insanely good, the upgrade from Tiamat to Ravenous Hydra isn't very cost effective; it's 1200 gold for 25 AD and some lifesteal.

And if you want a "beginner's" build, aka one with immense burst damage but not balanced out with survivability, just replace Warmog's Armor with a 2nd BT.

And never take ghostblade, it's **** on Talon. <3


Vapora you underrate Ghostbalde a bit sure its not like the best Talon item ever

but still 10x better than the Trininty Force(which you actually say its viable blergh)

you have to take a note that Ghostblade was like overbuffed this season and gives more and less twice the pen it gave Heck with Cleaver-GB-LW and Apen Reds and Quints you can turn 90 Armor to 0 without Cleaver
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Vapora Dark (420) | April 3, 2013 1:00pm

Great guide btw, just checked out your guide today and actually made me create an account just to thumbs you up. It looks like I've been building my talon accordingly ^-^.
But you really save up that much money to buy 2 + bt's? My final build is usually:
Merc threads, BT, ghostblade, black cleaver, LW and GA.

But if you have a more bursting build, I'd like to know. Like what you personally use, The general build you posted is alright for a beg. Talon player, but I'd like to take massive damage instead being "balanced."

Edit: Also about the runes, I use quint of attack dmg. But would speed be better?

Actually, a massive burst build would be my beginners' build, and the "balanced" one I have right now is for intermediates / experienced players. :P If you run into a team-fight with 1.9k HP you just instantly melt. Not so much at level ~20 because players aren't smart enough to focus you at that level, but at any respectable Elo players will focus you if you're a glass cannon.

There IS a bigger burst build which is what I use though. Boots > Brutalizer > Tiamat > BT > Last Whisper > Black Cleaver > Warmog's > Ravenous Hydra. It's just flat out better than what I have on the cheat sheet right now, because Tiamat's active is super broken on burst casters. However, no one realizes that, and I usually get flamed at in-game for taking Tiamat, because they're too dumb to read the active. For that very same reason I don't rush Tiamat after Brutalizer in the cheat sheet; I don't want to get instantly down-voted by people too stupid to read why I take it.

There's also the fact that, like I said, it's broken, and the less people that know that, the better, so I both don't have to play against it, and don't have to have it nerfed if it becomes popular.

Just so long as you remember to use Tiamat's active, you will definitely notice a large increase in burst as soon as you complete Tiamat. If you feel like you don't need any sustain either, take Last Whisper BEFORE BT, because that actually does more damage. I take BT for sustain, 'cuz Vamp scepter on it's own don't cut it.

Also, always upgrade Tiamat to Ravenous Hydra after you've completed the rest of your build, 'cuz while Tiamat is insanely good, the upgrade from Tiamat to Ravenous Hydra isn't very cost effective; it's 1200 gold for 25 AD and some lifesteal.

And if you want a "beginner's" build, aka one with immense burst damage but not balanced out with survivability, just replace Warmog's Armor with a 2nd BT.

And never take ghostblade, it's **** on Talon. <3
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Kobash | April 2, 2013 6:27pm
Thanks for this incredible guide.
I had my best LoL games after reading your guide.

My Talon skills improved a lot after reading your guide and following your advices. It also helped me improve my game in general.

Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing all this great knowledge.
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BigPapaBado | April 2, 2013 5:41pm
Great guide btw, just checked out your guide today and actually made me create an account just to thumbs you up. It looks like I've been building my talon accordingly ^-^.
But you really save up that much money to buy 2 + bt's? My final build is usually:
Merc threads, BT, ghostblade, black cleaver, LW and GA.

But if you have a more bursting build, I'd like to know. Like what you personally use, The general build you posted is alright for a beg. Talon player, but I'd like to take massive damage instead being "balanced."

Edit: Also about the runes, I use quint of attack dmg. But would speed be better?
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woechie1254 | April 2, 2013 2:41pm
thx realy good build i've got 33 kills in a normal game
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Cagil | April 2, 2013 1:29pm
Amazing guide. Can 100-0 someone so quickly with this build.
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Smacatau | April 2, 2013 5:50am
Good guide.Works better than fine.+1 upvote.
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SirKnox (4) | March 31, 2013 11:07am

Any time.


I will make you regret saying that. ;)
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 30, 2013 6:39pm
Any time.
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SirKnox (4) | March 30, 2013 5:32pm
Thank you very much for your help Vapora Dark, it has been invaluable.
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 29, 2013 6:00pm
SirKnox wrote:

Okay, I see what you mean. So critical chance is really only good for champions with high attack speed?
Sorry, I don't mean to bore you with noob questions, it's just I am still relatively ignorant of what's good for who.

Yup. Crits are stronk. Auto-attacking 10 times and critting 4 times? Swell. Auto-attacking twice and not scoring a single crit? Not so swell. Auto-attacking twice and managing to score 1 crit, but not having as much over-all burst damage as you would have by stacking full AD? Again, not so swell.

Taking IE and just building full AD is fun, because if you crit on your Q, the damage is massive, and if you crit twice in a row, you'll probably 1-shot them without even needing to use W or R ( has happened to me before. Poor Ahri... ) and at your level I encourage you to try it out for fun. But in a serious game, I wouldn't recommend it because its damage is super unreliable, and I prefer consistency in my items. If I 1-shot Miss Fortune once, and she comes back again with the exact same HP and resistances, I'd like to know that I'm going to 1-shot her again. I don't like leaving things to chance.

Also, when comparing BT and IE, as well as having more consistency, BT also has more AoE damage from your ult.
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SirKnox (4) | March 29, 2013 4:57pm
Okay, I see what you mean. So critical chance is really only good for champions with high attack speed?
Sorry, I don't mean to bore you with noob questions, it's just I am still relatively ignorant of what's good for who.
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 29, 2013 4:24pm
jefhsi wrote:

For lasting longer in lane (early), would you recommend starting out with a bunch of pots and a ward for talon?

Yeah, 2 wards + x9 pots is pretty strong vs champions with strong poke.

What I do atm though is start with red elixir, 4 pots and a ward. Pop the elixir as soon as you decide to go for a kill, and the big AD increase usually lets you get a kill on them if they don't flash away. Come back on lane with either 2 long swords or a Brutalizer and a still active red pot, proceed to rape.

@SirKnox: Builds that are reliant on scoring critical hits are super unreliable at all stages of the game until late-game. The reason is that seeing as you only auto-attack twice per burst, you'll only score a crit if you have high crit chance, normally. Until you have such high crit chance that you're guaranteed to crit twice in your burst, most of your crit chance is useless. And most crit items don't give AD with them, making the non-crit burst much weaker than it would be if you bought non-crit items.

In other words, it only compares to a normal build's burst if it crits twice, and it won't be critting twice until you have enough crit chance to make sure you crit both times. Until you have enough crit chance to make sure of that, all your crit items are gold inefficient, damage unreliable items. You're not an ADC, you don't auto-attack 10 times. You only auto-attack twice, if you don't crit, then bam, your entire build just failed.
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SirKnox (4) | March 29, 2013 10:41am
I wonder, would there be any way to make Infinity's Edge more useful for Talon by raising his critical chance level?
Or are all the other items too important to replace?
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Smudgdge | March 28, 2013 12:16am

Usually your jungler needs his red buffs, but if you get someone like Maokai who doesn't need to have reds past his first red, you can ask him to give you the 2nd red as in-lane, a Talon with a red is extremely strong. Late-game it's pretty underwhelming though, and you should always let your AD carry take it ( unless they're feeding, as they will most likely die with it ). Blue buffs should almost always be yours though, and most good junglers will give you blue buffs after they take the first one. And late-game, 38 seconds on your ult is pretty ridiculous. ;)

Yeah I understand the jungler may need the red, but at low levels, junglers don't even exist hahahaha. But yeah, I try to build according to the game and change my build to suit the situation and that is working best at the moment.
Quoted:
For lasting longer in lane (early), would you recommend starting out with a bunch of pots and a ward for talon?

In my opinion, I would run boots with a few pots, so then you are still contributing to your build but have sustainability at the same time. Again in my opinion, when you are talon, after level 4-5 your opponent should be scared out of his/her boots, but full bursting them (besides your ult), you can really scare people, if not, kill them. So you shouldn't be having too much trouble lasting longer. If you are, just go back. It is better than dying and it will give you an opportunity to buy stuff :).I am open to being proven wrong.

But I did more calculations! I worked out that with two bloodthirsters, fully stacked with ful build, level 18, etc etc etc, you will be bursting at around 3000 dmg total. I left my book at school so I don't have it on me for exact figures, but then with a warmogs instead of another BT, you will be bursting at about 2500 I think, still significant figures, often enough to murder an adc who has been harassed a little, but it certainly isn't the 4000 I thought it was hahaha. I was using the total AD rather than the bonus AD the first time and now, using the bonus AD, it looks a little more realistic. :)
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jefhsi | March 27, 2013 11:16pm
For lasting longer in lane (early), would you recommend starting out with a bunch of pots and a ward for talon?
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Enigmaul | March 27, 2013 8:49pm
Holy Trinity and Triple Bloodthirsters isn't broken at all... (let me wipe that Draven smear off my sleeve).
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 27, 2013 5:59pm
Smudgdge wrote:


But yeah I agree, I am a relatively low level still, so you could say that I am not playing against the best players, so often I will build two bloodthirsters as when I go to burst, I will either kill them or scare them so much that they don't even attack and just run so I haven't felt the practicality of survivability items yet, but I am sure the time will come.

Also, I in that game which score I posted, I started going for blue and red buffs for the first time I really have as I remember you saying that Talon shold be getting, and wow, an ult every 38 seconds is just ridiculous xD.

Thanks again :).

Just keep building whatever works for you at the moment. When it stops working, you'll know by the way you enter a team-fight completely fed and die within 4 seconds. :P

Usually your jungler needs his red buffs, but if you get someone like Maokai who doesn't need to have reds past his first red, you can ask him to give you the 2nd red as in-lane, a Talon with a red is extremely strong. Late-game it's pretty underwhelming though, and you should always let your AD carry take it ( unless they're feeding, as they will most likely die with it ). Blue buffs should almost always be yours though, and most good junglers will give you blue buffs after they take the first one. And late-game, 38 seconds on your ult is pretty ridiculous. ;)

SirKnox wrote:
Okay, I thought is was normal to stack BTs, I need to memorize your build, because I keep diverting accidentally

Well my season 2 build took 3 BT's, ( or 4 if I was forgoeing defenses ) but in season 3 Black Cleaver became core on Talon, and Ravenous Hydra came into the picture, meaning you only have a place for 1 BT now. ( or 2 if you forgoe defenses )

Edit: And it actually isn't that impressive lol. Our team has 2 bronzes and a low Silver, so we're getting matched against bronze teams, which is why we're 4/0 at the moment. :P 2 Talon victories.

As a gold player it really isn't that hard to stomp a bronze player in-lane, especially as Talon.
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SirKnox (4) | March 27, 2013 5:42pm
Not bad, better than I can do, that's for sure.

Okay, I thought is was normal to stack BTs, I need to memorize your build, because I keep diverting accidentally.

Our team isn't very official... because none of us can actually play ranked yet, but I still happen to think we have THE most epic team, completely unbiased. ;)
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Smudgdge | March 27, 2013 4:12pm

I think you probably did go wrong in the maths, but I didn't bother checking. But did you calculate his ult's damage based on total AD, or just your bonus AD? Because it only scales on bonus AD. If 470.8 is your total AD, then around 365 AD is your bonus AD, and that's what scales with your ultimate and other abilities. Either way, it isn't too far off of how much damage he does.

So yeah, I think I did go wrong as I said, I was going on Total AD, I will re calc with just that bonus AD and I'll work out some formula or something to make it easy to calc in the future. I was trying to watch health bars to see if my calcs were right during a burst, but no, I was not doing as much damage as I thought I was.

But yeah I agree, I am a relatively low level still, so you could say that I am not playing against the best players, so often I will build two bloodthirsters as when I go to burst, I will either kill them or scare them so much that they don't even attack and just run so I haven't felt the practicality of survivability items yet, but I am sure the time will come.

Also, I in that game which score I posted, I started going for blue and red buffs for the first time I really have as I remember you saying that Talon shold be getting, and wow, an ult every 38 seconds is just ridiculous xD.

Thanks again :).
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 27, 2013 9:40am
Smudgdge wrote:

So basically, I just spent the last half hour or so working out some stats. I got bored, was doing maths homework, so decided to use maths in a gaming setting, whatever. So I worked out the stats for building Talon with two Bloodthirsters as well as your Black Cleaver, Hydra, Last Whisper. So two Bloodthirsters instead of a Warmogs and some form of boots taking up the last slot. So I found that with this, his basic AD is 470.8. This is discounting armour and other factors as I don't know how to work them all out, this is just his RAW damage. This equats to him doing a total of 1282.6 damage over the full 6 seconds of Noxian Diplomacy, 824 of a complete Rake, and 1145 too each enemy on a complete Shadow ***ualt. Wow. I have probably messed up in some maths somewhere but these stats are pretty sweet. Furthermore, in a complete burst, meaning a Cutthroat, Rake, Noxian Diplomacy and then Shadow ***ualt, or E-W-Q-AA-R, you will do 4016 damage to ONE target. That is including all his bonuses adding up to his damage. As I said, I have probably gone wrong somewhere in my calculations, but if I haven't, Talon is AWESOME!!! he can do 5500+ damage to the entire enemy team with his ult alone. That is a pretty astounding statistic. So if you you ever find yourself owning and without the need of a survivability item, buy another Bloodthirster! Maybe consider putting that point in your guide if you haven't got it in there already (this is where I failed to read your build fully and find you saying it, DOH!). So some back ground, I bought Talon jsut last night after deciding I wanted something else to play, and read your guide/build. I had a GREAT time, finding my feet after a couple of matches. All thanks to your guide and yours alone. Full credit to you Vapora, you have done a great job in my opinion and I love this guide and will refer to it often in the future. Just thought I might contribute some useless stats that you probably have already worked out but I just felt the urge to find out how awesome he really was. He is pretty ridiculously awesome if you ask me! Right now I really just want to go home and play Talon and rape some vulnerable ADCs but I'm stuck at my school Library doing maths homework. :(. Anways, again, I love your work, and thanks to you, I have had a lot of fun with this Champion. Now I will probably get quoted saying something that isn't right a someone else will also attempt the calculations and find that I am wrong, this is my note to them, I don't care, I got bored and decided to work them out so whatever happens, I just did it for fun :P. I now consider myself a semi Fanboy. Don't take it personally.
Thanks,
Smudgdge
NOTE: This was calculated with FULLY STACKED Bloodthirsters. Thanks :).
Probably should have sent that in a PM, but meh.

Yup, Talon's AoE is massive, and in season 3 with the ArPen changes making him hurt even tanks, as well as the inclusion of Ravenous Hydra, his AoE is only bigger. People under-estimate him saying he can't do much except burst a single person and hope your team can do the rest because they don't stop to consider how much damage his ult does to enemy teams, not just the person you're bursting.

I think you probably did go wrong in the maths, but I didn't bother checking. But did you calculate his ult's damage based on total AD, or just your bonus AD? Because it only scales on bonus AD. If 470.8 is your total AD, then around 365 AD is your bonus AD, and that's what scales with your ultimate and other abilities. Either way, it isn't too far off of how much damage he does.

Double BT if insanely fed is something I do in normals for fun, but I don't recommend it in serious matches because it falls off late-game. Diving into an enemy team with 1700 HP at 25 minutes in isn't the same as diving into an enemy team with 2000 HP 50 minutes in. Tanky late-game teams don't melt at your damage, double BT or not, and will instantly prioritize you if your HP bar is too small. Literally no one is still squishy late-game in the current meta, so if you're the only person on your team that is squishy, you're both a high priority enemy, with the lowest HP bar in the game. Smart teams know what to do in that situation, so I just don't do it if I'm playing seriously.

SirKnox wrote:
I play League with four of my other brothers, and I am definitely using Talon in our team.

Lol I've started a team too, as our mid. Our first game was with me playing Talon. :P

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SirKnox (4) | March 27, 2013 6:03am
Nice job!
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Smudgdge | March 26, 2013 10:27pm
Alright so I literally just got this game right then, as you can see, 30-2-9, with Talon, I reached full build WELL before the end, built two bloodthirsters instead of a Warmogs, and look, the kills come! I even got a nice handy triple kill during the last ace before we destroyed the nexus. I AM VERY HAPPY!!! I will never forget choosing Talon, let alone regret choosing him. THANKS!!!
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Smudgdge | March 26, 2013 4:02pm
SirKnox, I'm glad I didn't PM that now after reading that! But yeah, epic build, epic champ, now you have an epic team! Thanks for your support! If you want any more stats on him let me know, I am happy to work some more out. :)
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SirKnox (4) | March 26, 2013 7:34am
Smudgdge, I am glad you didn't PM that... even if it is not completely accurate; I am now fully convinced of the power of Talon, and the overall epic-ness of this build. :)
I play League with four of my other brothers, and I am definitely using Talon in our team.
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Smudgdge | March 25, 2013 10:41pm
So basically, I just spent the last half hour or so working out some stats. I got bored, was doing maths homework, so decided to use maths in a gaming setting, whatever. So I worked out the stats for building Talon with two Bloodthirsters as well as your Black Cleaver, Hydra, Last Whisper. So two Bloodthirsters instead of a Warmogs and some form of boots taking up the last slot. So I found that with this, his basic AD is 470.8. This is discounting armour and other factors as I don't know how to work them all out, this is just his RAW damage. This equats to him doing a total of 1282.6 damage over the full 6 seconds of Noxian Diplomacy, 824 of a complete Rake, and 1145 too each enemy on a complete Shadow ***ualt. Wow. I have probably messed up in some maths somewhere but these stats are pretty sweet. Furthermore, in a complete burst, meaning a Cutthroat, Rake, Noxian Diplomacy and then Shadow ***ualt, or E-W-Q-AA-R, you will do 4016 damage to ONE target. That is including all his bonuses adding up to his damage. As I said, I have probably gone wrong somewhere in my calculations, but if I haven't, Talon is AWESOME!!! he can do 5500+ damage to the entire enemy team with his ult alone. That is a pretty astounding statistic. So if you you ever find yourself owning and without the need of a survivability item, buy another Bloodthirster! Maybe consider putting that point in your guide if you haven't got it in there already (this is where I failed to read your build fully and find you saying it, DOH!). So some back ground, I bought Talon jsut last night after deciding I wanted something else to play, and read your guide/build. I had a GREAT time, finding my feet after a couple of matches. All thanks to your guide and yours alone. Full credit to you Vapora, you have done a great job in my opinion and I love this guide and will refer to it often in the future. Just thought I might contribute some useless stats that you probably have already worked out but I just felt the urge to find out how awesome he really was. He is pretty ridiculously awesome if you ask me! Right now I really just want to go home and play Talon and rape some vulnerable ADCs but I'm stuck at my school Library doing maths homework. :(. Anways, again, I love your work, and thanks to you, I have had a lot of fun with this Champion. Now I will probably get quoted saying something that isn't right a someone else will also attempt the calculations and find that I am wrong, this is my note to them, I don't care, I got bored and decided to work them out so whatever happens, I just did it for fun :P. I now consider myself a semi Fanboy. Don't take it personally.
Thanks,
Smudgdge
NOTE: This was calculated with FULLY STACKED Bloodthirsters. Thanks :).
Probably should have sent that in a PM, but meh.
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SirAeros (7) | March 22, 2013 6:43pm

Thank god I get the dumb Lulu's.

Talon bursting our carry? BETTER ULT MA TANK


You forgot the part where they W their AD because a 35% Speed Buff is totaly going to save tham from being 100-0d
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 22, 2013 6:14pm
Thank god I get the dumb Lulu's.

Talon bursting our carry? BETTER ULT MA TANK
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SirAeros (7) | March 22, 2013 4:40pm


Ganking with Panth's ult off of cooldown isn't really too much of a problem. I quite often lane-gank with my own ultimate, in other words, I ult while I'm at bot lane's tower or something, and run all the way from the tower to the enemy ADC while stealthed, and kill him before he even knows he's being ganked. Too late for Panth to counter-gank and clean up. :P

But yeah, in-lane Talon's ****ed vs Pantheon. Pantheon and Riven are the only real champions I find it impossible to deal with as Talon. I find most bruiser lanes aren't as hard as people might think because W has a pretty neat range when it's being used on meelee characters, so I can harass without getting touched in retaliation, and burst them when they're low enough, but Riven with her thousand gap-closers to force a fight on her, and Pantheon with an equal ranged harass on a much lower cooldown, which can't miss... Just impossible, man. 10/10 difficulty on both, they hard-counter him so much. :(


actually you can beat Panth as Talon just get towerdoven by a Yi Jungle and get Fed up a Double Buff Duh :p but in seriousness the only way to beat him is outroaming or he is stupid enough to stay in lane with -50% Hp without his Block Up and you have mana to 100-0 him

but yeah Riven difficulty deserves a "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" out of 10 shes just Just F***** Silly I mean you can't force a Fight 1v1 as you instadie pretty much you can't Harrass because even a Braindead Riven knows how to press W without losing Mana and Please hope she doesn't have an Elixer heck I once beeated Pantheon by getting Early FB in Invades or some cheese Strats(like 5 man Top Bush OP) but with Riven happened that and she still didn't Give a Jack ****

that said though Talons hardest Counter in teamfights I figured out goes to Lulu yay ****-Blocking Burst Power Over 9000 and a Reveal yay
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 22, 2013 2:50am
xobtik wrote:

hey vapora u post any videos or something like that cause i have some difficulty with talon in team fights so i thought maybe if i see 1 or 2 of ur videos i could play better

Yeah, I've been planning to do that. I'll add some videos over the week. I'll PM you a few as soon as I get home though, but you'll need to download, or have it downloaded already, LoLreplay to be able to watch them.
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xobtik | March 21, 2013 7:56pm
hey vapora u post any videos or something like that cause i have some difficulty with talon in team fights so i thought maybe if i see 1 or 2 of ur videos i could play better
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 19, 2013 4:36pm
Lucorian5 wrote:



Idk what Talon could ever do against Pantheon lol, especially if he went 21-9-0 masteries and started cloth + 5, or even just a regular sustain start with an early Ninja Tabi. Not to mention you could only gank when Grand Skyfall is off of cooldown (though that is a fairly large window). Anyways I think the matchup would be a solid 9.5/10 difficulty

Ganking with Panth's ult off of cooldown isn't really too much of a problem. I quite often lane-gank with my own ultimate, in other words, I ult while I'm at bot lane's tower or something, and run all the way from the tower to the enemy ADC while stealthed, and kill him before he even knows he's being ganked. Too late for Panth to counter-gank and clean up. :P

But yeah, in-lane Talon's ****ed vs Pantheon. Pantheon and Riven are the only real champions I find it impossible to deal with as Talon. I find most bruiser lanes aren't as hard as people might think because W has a pretty neat range when it's being used on meelee characters, so I can harass without getting touched in retaliation, and burst them when they're low enough, but Riven with her thousand gap-closers to force a fight on her, and Pantheon with an equal ranged harass on a much lower cooldown, which can't miss... Just impossible, man. 10/10 difficulty on both, they hard-counter him so much. :(
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Lucorian5 (65) | March 19, 2013 3:49pm


I'm planning to delete my whole match-ups section and replace it with a chapter where I only show hard match-ups for Talon, because I realized how stupid it is for me to contiously show images of champions and say "EASY. BURST HIM AND YOU WIN." on each one. :P Pantheon will be in that new section, because he's probably the worst match-up I've ever had. I've beaten Darius's, Garen's, AP Cho'Gath's, Jax's, quite a lot of Talon's counters, all at ~1450 Elo, and not had too much of a problem doing so. I have NEVER, EVER beaten a Pantheon, leaving aside pre-30 play. Not even in normals. Also not counting him lane-switching from top when I already got fed from their mid. :P

I'll get round to it when I get gold back, which, with a bit of luck, could be today. I'm 5/0 with Hecarim, intend to play him in all my series games, which I just unlocked, and could possibly win 3 in a row for gold. Though knowing my luck, my Hecarim stats are probably about to become 5/3, but we'll see. :P


Idk what Talon could ever do against Pantheon lol, especially if he went 21-9-0 masteries and started cloth + 5, or even just a regular sustain start with an early Ninja Tabi. Not to mention you could only gank when Grand Skyfall is off of cooldown (though that is a fairly large window). Anyways I think the matchup would be a solid 9.5/10 difficulty
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 19, 2013 8:20am
Lucorian5 wrote:

Still no Pantheon in the matchups...jeez I'm offended >:(

I'm planning to delete my whole match-ups section and replace it with a chapter where I only show hard match-ups for Talon, because I realized how stupid it is for me to contiously show images of champions and say "EASY. BURST HIM AND YOU WIN." on each one. :P Pantheon will be in that new section, because he's probably the worst match-up I've ever had. I've beaten Darius's, Garen's, AP Cho'Gath's, Jax's, quite a lot of Talon's counters, all at ~1450 Elo, and not had too much of a problem doing so. I have NEVER, EVER beaten a Pantheon, leaving aside pre-30 play. Not even in normals. Also not counting him lane-switching from top when I already got fed from their mid. :P

I'll get round to it when I get gold back, which, with a bit of luck, could be today. I'm 5/0 with Hecarim, intend to play him in all my series games, which I just unlocked, and could possibly win 3 in a row for gold. Though knowing my luck, my Hecarim stats are probably about to become 5/3, but we'll see. :P
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SirKnox (4) | March 19, 2013 6:43am
Thank you very much, Vapora, you have been extremely helpful.
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Lucorian5 (65) | March 18, 2013 9:53pm
Still no Pantheon in the matchups...jeez I'm offended >:(
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Shinyoku | March 18, 2013 5:16pm
Really good job on the guide,+1 from me.I even made an account just to comment and rate.I also wanted to express my thanks,as this guide is totally useful.For instance today,I played Talon mid on a ranked game.Not having played Talon in a while,I searched for a guide on MobaFire,and found this one.I ended up having 26-2 as Talon mid.Enemy laner was Morgana.After I killed her a few times I started roaming and simply following this guides footsteps.It was a devastating game.Obviously I have had my bad games as Talon as well,but that cannot be helped.Also,people that say Talon needs more Health and survivability,I'll simply agree on"He is an assasin,so build him like an assasin"Nuff said~
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 18, 2013 2:17pm
Apologies for the late responses guys. Been hard at work trying to re-earn gold. I should hopefully have it back within 2 weeks, as I get no school for a week next week. I haven't been posting much at all on mobafire other than on my ranked journey, but anyway, I'll take some time to answer you all now.





i need help against mordekaiser.

he never stop pushing, never. i can't burst him because of his shield. his shield never goes off 'cause he never STOP PUSHING. i can gank him but with his tankiness, ult and damage he just goes and doubles (hue hue hue) even if he just kills 1 or he doesn't kills anybody it doesn't matters. mordekaiser don't have such think as "snowballing backwards" so he will just come back with his will of the ancients and start pushing again; i can't roam because of the (HUE HUE HUE YOU JUST DON'T HAVE ANY MINIONS ANYMORE AND YOU ARE STILL BEFORE THE BARON-DRAGON PIT HUE) fact.

but still i don't consider him OP, he doesn't have tons of thing other champs have, he is just... anoying and forces you to be 0/0/0 till the 15 mark -because in that moment he will get you'r turret, you will only get his if he goes to push other lane- and most of times with bad farm because you have to be away from the minions, and you'r ones are close to theyr ones and you are a melee champ...

---

-i need help with mordekaiser,
-any starting items?
-counterplay?
-what is the moment to atack?
-can i roam?
-should i go in hard as i see him or wait for something?
-how can i farm against him?
-any tips and tricks? (i tried to "bait" a gank to another lane so he would follow and waste his shield walking but he doesn't even care, he kept pushing without worries)

--

i'm not QQing, i actually want to learn survive mordekaiser, i will hear and thank all of your advices.

Start 9 HP pots and 2 wards, try and farm up a Brutalizer as fast as you can while sustaining his harass. But obviously, avoid harass whenever possible. When you have enough for a brutalizer, which should be past level 6, recall and get it. Wait for him to recall and get items too. When he enters the lane, burst him and kill him before he can even reach your minions. If it doesn't kill him, he has to recall again anyway. Keep farming while he's off the lane, and as soon as he enters the lane keep on playing super aggressive, zoning him away from your minions. He can get a small shield off of you anyway, but it's not enough to be considerable. Keep on playing aggressively until he either recalls and you can go gank, or you kill him.

But obviously, ask for ganks whenever possible, as it isn't easy to beat Mordekaiser. Hopefully that helps though, it's how I managed to deal with him the 1 time I faced him in ranked.

IcUp wrote:
Make a chapter about Zed pl0x I want to know what to do to win my lane because in my opinion Talon is better Zed.

Zed beats Talon in laning phase when they're both even, Talon one-shots Zed if he gets an advantage ( unsure if Zed can one-shot him too with an advantage that early ).

Start with Elixir of Fortitude, 2 Health Potions, and 2 sight wards. The wards will keep the enemy jungler from ganking you and snowballing the lane in Zed's favour, and Elixir of Fortitude can be used in 2 ways: If you seemingly have lower HP than him, bait him into trying to kill you. Activate the elixir to get a big boost in both HP and AD, and kill him as he'll have blown his escape to reach you. If he flashes, flash after him. Or, if you're winning trades, which is also entirely possible, activate your elixir a second before bursting to finish him off, as he won't be expecting you to hurt so much all of a sudden, and won't flash away before you've done your damage.

When you've killed him, get a The Brutalizer, and you will automatically win trades from then on. Burst him when he's at around 70% HP and he's dead.

Also, I keep a rune page which gives me 19 armor pen and 19 armor ( armor pen marks + quints, armor seals + glyphs ) to deal with people like Pantheon, Kha'Zix and Zed. All have a natural advantage over Talon, but all can be beaten if you bring the right stuff onto the lane at level 1, such as the Elixir, and the extra armor. ( Although the possibility of beating Pantheon is debatable... He's an extremely hard counter to Talon. )

SirKnox wrote:
Greetings, Vapora.
I am new to mobafire, but this guide looks very legitimate.
But I have a question:
I have been playing Talon for a few days now, and I have always had a problem with Mana, so what would you suggest if you were to change the build, what Mana item would I add?

Chalice of Harmony. If you have no wards protecting your lane, then walking onto your opponent's side of the lane to try and last hit a caster minion is risky, so I actually do tend to use Rake to last-hit a lot when I'm out of wards. At the same time though, I try to only last-hit them when I'll both get the last-hit, and harass my enemy with W at the same time, so I'm not using up my mana on such a small thing as last-hitting.

Sometimes you can find yoruself OOM when you wanted to do something with your mana, but it doesn't happen often enough to me to justify buying any mana items, as late-game your mana will be irrelevant, so you'd need to sell the item anyway, and in season 3, you get back less than half the gold you payed for the item when you sell it. For me it's not worth it. Early-game, recall and buy if you're ever OOM, and try and get as many blues as possible from your jungler.

If you really feel a mana item is necessary, then buy Chalice of Harmony, but I've personally never taken it on Talon. Your goal is to burst them down from full HP, not harass them down to death with W. You can find yourself using W a lot pre-6, but past then you'll mostly be 1-shotting your enemy.

Edit: If you miss W a lot when you're trying to harass, a tip is to keep an eye on your own mminions' HP. When one drops low enough, your enemy will try and last-hit it, so throw W at them, and they have to either dodge or just miss the last-hit. If you're lucky they'll both miss the last-hit while trying to dodge, and still get hit by W anyway.

Janitsu wrote:
In the match-ups section, Cassiopeia. You have written it in wrong way and doesn't show it right!

BTW +1

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll fix it in a sec, but I'm going to delete that chapter and replace it with something else when I can be bothered anyway. :P Probably when I reach gold again, which should hopefully be next week, as I'll have a lot of free time on my hands.

SirKnox wrote:
And another question (I don't mean to presume upon anybody's time): Is there any way to Jungle with Talon, or is he completely incompatible?

Talon is not a very good jungler. He has 0 in-built sustain, slow clear times, relatively bad ganks ( Sure, his ganks are devastating mid, but as mid Talon, when have you ever ganked bot lane either the same level as them or 1 level below? ), and next to no counter-jungling capabilities.

Leaving aside all that, Talon's build is very expensive, and it would require pure dumb luck during his ganks to be able to amass as much gold as he could get while just farming mid. And remember junglers are meant to try and get kills for the lanes they gank, not for themselves.

For Talon to be viable at all in any way in the jungle, you would need to build him as more of a bruiser, going 9/21 in masteries rather than 21/9 or 21/0/9, both to be more durable in the jungle, and because as a tanky champion, he won't need as much gold to be effective.

I've seen, or rather heard of, people carrying as AD assassin jungle Talon, but its success seems to be random, and I've never seen it work at my Elo range.

Try it out if you want, but it's pretty bad when you think of the other junglers you could be using instead.

In one of your screen shots, you say to report Varus, but where the scores and items are, there is no Varus there.

Lol, I remember that. In my previous game, I bugged when the game ended and couldn't see the stats screen. After the following game, the one with said Varus, it showed me the stats of the previous game which had bugged, rather than the stats of the game I'd just played. You can actually see Varus if you look at the names of the players above the chat rather than on the stats.

And I said NOT to report him. :P I can't remember why, maybe their mid DC'd or rage quit on me, but for whatever reason, their Varus had to come and take over mid vs me. He was level 6 at the time I was level 10, and so I repeatedly 1-shot him without even needing my ultimate, because he couldn't really do anything about it. He was feeding like mad, albeit not intentionally, so on the stats screen, I told people NOT to report him, because they should have known better than to send the squishiest person on their team vs a Talon 4 levels higher than him.
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AcceSpeed (1) | March 18, 2013 1:41pm
Great guide ;) the best i found so far to begin with Talon and to use it A LOT after... Good job!
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DiggerNick420 | March 18, 2013 9:18am
In one of your screen shots, you say to report Varus, but where the scores and items are, there is no Varus there.
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SirKnox (4) | March 17, 2013 6:22pm
GFxJG, thank you for that advice. Today I tried to cut down on that, and it certainly helped.
The thing was, it is the best ability to kite with, but costs the most mana, aside from his ultimate.

And another question (I don't mean to presume upon anybody's time): Is there any way to Jungle with Talon, or is he completely incompatible?
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Janitsu (486) | March 17, 2013 9:49am
In the match-ups section, Cassiopeia. You have written it in wrong way and doesn't show it right!

BTW +1
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GfxJG | March 17, 2013 4:04am
SirKnox: Talon shouldn't be having any noticable mana problems. If you are, it means your spamming skills (probably his W) to farm minions, which you shouldn't do too much. Try to think about that when playing, and your mana problems should fix themselves.
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SirKnox (4) | March 15, 2013 5:19pm
If anybody could give me some tips, I would be hugely appreciative.
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SirKnox (4) | March 15, 2013 8:46am
Greetings, Vapora.
I am new to mobafire, but this guide looks very legitimate.
But I have a question:
I have been playing Talon for a few days now, and I have always had a problem with Mana, so what would you suggest if you were to change the build, what Mana item would I add?
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LouisA. (4) | March 14, 2013 1:50pm

i need help against mordekaiser.

he never stop pushing, never. i can't burst him because of his shield. his shield never goes off 'cause he never STOP PUSHING. i can gank him but with his tankiness, ult and damage he just goes and doubles (hue hue hue) even if he just kills 1 or he doesn't kills anybody it doesn't matters. mordekaiser don't have such think as "snowballing backwards" so he will just come back with his will of the ancients and start pushing again; i can't roam because of the (HUE HUE HUE YOU JUST DON'T HAVE ANY MINIONS ANYMORE AND YOU ARE STILL BEFORE THE BARON-DRAGON PIT HUE) fact.

but still i don't consider him OP, he doesn't have tons of thing other champs have, he is just... anoying and forces you to be 0/0/0 till the 15 mark -because in that moment he will get you'r turret, you will only get his if he goes to push other lane- and most of times with bad farm because you have to be away from the minions, and you'r ones are close to theyr ones and you are a melee champ...

---

-i need help with mordekaiser,
-any starting items?
-counterplay?
-what is the moment to atack?
-can i roam?
-should i go in hard as i see him or wait for something?
-how can i farm against him?
-any tips and tricks? (i tried to "bait" a gank to another lane so he would follow and waste his shield walking but he doesn't even care, he kept pushing without worries)

--

i'm not QQing, i actually want to learn survive mordekaiser, i will hear and thank all of your advices.




Just see the guide's match up against mordekaiser.

If the morde player is bad, you'll win. If he's a god on morde, you'll lose. I came against a lot of morde players, some are skillful some are not. If your opponent is using morde wisely, even if he has ****py team mates. He can still f*ck up your team. (experienced this in a ranked match using talon except we won via tri-lane push and thanks to his team mates, we got fed)
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IcUp | March 13, 2013 7:00pm
Make a chapter about Zed pl0x I want to know what to do to win my lane because in my opinion Talon is better Zed.
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ElSalyerFan (1) | March 13, 2013 6:11pm
i need help against mordekaiser.

he never stop pushing, never. i can't burst him because of his shield. his shield never goes off 'cause he never STOP PUSHING. i can gank him but with his tankiness, ult and damage he just goes and doubles (hue hue hue) even if he just kills 1 or he doesn't kills anybody it doesn't matters. mordekaiser don't have such think as "snowballing backwards" so he will just come back with his will of the ancients and start pushing again; i can't roam because of the (HUE HUE HUE YOU JUST DON'T HAVE ANY MINIONS ANYMORE AND YOU ARE STILL BEFORE THE BARON-DRAGON PIT HUE) fact.

but still i don't consider him OP, he doesn't have tons of thing other champs have, he is just... anoying and forces you to be 0/0/0 till the 15 mark -because in that moment he will get you'r turret, you will only get his if he goes to push other lane- and most of times with bad farm because you have to be away from the minions, and you'r ones are close to theyr ones and you are a melee champ...

---

-i need help with mordekaiser,
-any starting items?
-counterplay?
-what is the moment to atack?
-can i roam?
-should i go in hard as i see him or wait for something?
-how can i farm against him?
-any tips and tricks? (i tried to "bait" a gank to another lane so he would follow and waste his shield walking but he doesn't even care, he kept pushing without worries)

--

i'm not QQing, i actually want to learn survive mordekaiser, i will hear and thank all of your advices.
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Copernicus182 | March 12, 2013 11:20am

I don't intend to finish that chapter because it's mostly the same **** for each champion.

Ziggs with a blue buff can be quite painful, but pre-6 he's got a mana pool, and he can't do everything just by throwing bombs. As soon as you're 6, stand in front of your minions while last-hitting, and hit him with W if he ever comes to get a last-hit. You're so close to him every time he tries to take a last-hit that W is impossible to miss, so he has to either miss a last-hit, or get it but get hit by Rake. You'll probably get hit by a bomb or two this way, but he still won't be able to last-hit without taking free hits. If you hit him with W and his HP hits around 50%, E Q him, R and ignite. If he isn't going to die but he's dropped super low and he flashes, flash after him and get him with as many auto-attacks as possible. If he uses that dispositioning bomb, make sure you're on the same side of it as he is.

Get Brutalizer, and have fun 1-shotting dunkmaster Ziggs.


Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll work on that, I'm also not usually an aggressive laner, I play smart, but maybe a little to passive sometimes.
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 12, 2013 5:35am
I don't intend to finish that chapter because it's mostly the same **** for each champion.

Ziggs with a blue buff can be quite painful, but pre-6 he's got a mana pool, and he can't do everything just by throwing bombs. As soon as you're 6, stand in front of your minions while last-hitting, and hit him with W if he ever comes to get a last-hit. You're so close to him every time he tries to take a last-hit that W is impossible to miss, so he has to either miss a last-hit, or get it but get hit by Rake. You'll probably get hit by a bomb or two this way, but he still won't be able to last-hit without taking free hits. If you hit him with W and his HP hits around 50%, E Q him, R and ignite. If he isn't going to die but he's dropped super low and he flashes, flash after him and get him with as many auto-attacks as possible. If he uses that dispositioning bomb, make sure you're on the same side of it as he is.

Get Brutalizer, and have fun 1-shotting dunkmaster Ziggs.
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Copernicus182 | March 11, 2013 11:00pm
Hello Vapora, do you think you could add Ziggs to the Match Ups section please? I've been facing him quite a bit in mid lane, I can dodge his abilities, I just can't seem to zone him out or win the lane. What usually happens is I freeze the lane (not on purpose) until bot or top lose, then the roaming/hard ganking starts... then I lose my lane. It would be much appreciated.
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Skouty (4) | March 11, 2013 1:51am
PM me,i have to talk with you
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CampinCarl9127 | March 10, 2013 8:07pm
Used this guide and i quickly realized I had too much defense in my previous talon builds. ended up getting stupid fed (enemy tf mid, if he did pick a card and DIDNT go gold card i just raped him). also we had a really good jungle mumu, and we literally 2v5'd and i got a quadra while mumu picked up the last one (scumbag mumu). between both our ults and them having a squishy support and jungler it was devestating.

Long story short, incredible guide. I do still stack bloodthirsters tho haha
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Lucorian5 (65) | March 10, 2013 4:51pm

I don't remember very well exactly how much I was raging, but rest assured, my neighbours woke up... :)

Now that I reached my goal though, and that loss doesn't make any difference, it is funny to look back at that game, lol.


last time something like that happened to me (its about once every three games down here in wood league) I broke my last working pair of earphones; ripped them out of my laptop and hurled them at the wall in one fluid violent motion :P now one side refuses to emit sound and I feel really dumb
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 10, 2013 1:17pm
I don't remember very well exactly how much I was raging, but rest assured, my neighbours woke up... :)

Now that I reached my goal though, and that loss doesn't make any difference, it is funny to look back at that game, lol.
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Lucorian5 (65) | March 10, 2013 11:32am
legit laughed my *** off at the 16-7 game with that trynd on your team....that was actually hilarious (though not at the time I bet)
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ShoGUNZzz (1) | March 10, 2013 9:09am
I have to say that I really appreciate the new screen-shots. Also, the fact you showed everything amazes me. I would think that the tendency to 'show off' is hard to over come. Kudos to you for showing that even great players, like yourself, have bad games. That Trynd story had me rolling. God knows I have seen my fair share like that.

It's nice to see how you do, in fact, use your own guide, lol. How many guides are on here where they recommend items and you look at 20+ screen-shots to not SEE ANY ITEM THEY RECOMMEND ON THERE. Ha.

I main Talon and Nocturne, and used your guide for Talon as my bible. I've looked and read them all, yours is the best.

Question, a trend I'm seeing said a lot on these guides I've seen that contrast yours is that they mostly promote flat AD Quints and Marks, saying ArmPen was nerfed in Season 3 not making them viable in the current Meta. The authors of these guides frequently point to Talon's scaling with AD saying the AD runes make more sense anyways. Me being the perfectionist/****** wonders if they are right? What's your take? I've seen success using the ArmPen you recommend but wonder if going AD might be better.

Oh and I'm never getting rid of the MS Quints, lol, best quints on Talon by far. I sometimes use ArmPen Quints if Diana is showing her ugly face, which seems to be rare these days.
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 10, 2013 8:20am
I've updated the Section O' Scores with every season 3 ranked Talon game I've got a screenshot of, all extracted from my ranked journey thread. Every low Elo and normal game has been removed. In fact, I removed every screen-shot that was there previously. :P Around half my guide is now screen-shots though, so I'm just gonna spoiler dat ****.
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 9, 2013 3:19pm
I have a whole bunch of season 3 pics which are all posted in my ranked journey, I just can't be bothered to gather them all up just yet. :P

I don't stack BT's anymore. I don't think I even take 2 per game now lol. I miss the BT stacking days, but it isn't optimal anymore. It is still pretty damn good on him though.
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ShoGUNZzz (1) | March 9, 2013 5:59am
Anymore pics for season 3? You still staking BT?
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 9, 2013 4:39am
Mikk5Doe wrote:

What a lovely guide! ^.^ I hope to slowly climb up the ladder with your help. Thank you. (I use this guide with Zed also lol)

Kha'Zix, Pantheon and Zed are all applicable to this guide, Kha'Zix moreso because his kit is identical to Talon's. :P

I just read whole of your guide and I must say, you putted in one hell of work. 2 to 3 weeks ago, talon was on free 2 play, but I sucked with him, now I know why lol.Sadly, I dont have much IP to buy him soon, but I am gonna do it sooner or later. Was bored so read your guide, thanks for not wasting my 30 minutes ;) And Good Luck in future as well :)

Looking forward to your next comment when you do get him. :) Thanks!
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AngryFighter | March 9, 2013 3:38am
I just read whole of your guide and I must say, you putted in one hell of work. 2 to 3 weeks ago, talon was on free 2 play, but I sucked with him, now I know why lol.Sadly, I dont have much IP to buy him soon, but I am gonna do it sooner or later. Was bored so read your guide, thanks for not wasting my 30 minutes ;) And Good Luck in future as well :)
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Mikk5Doe | March 8, 2013 9:45pm
What a lovely guide! ^.^ I hope to slowly climb up the ladder with your help. Thank you. (I use this guide with Zed also lol)
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 7, 2013 11:59am
GREED560 wrote:

Hey, I was just curious for you're opinion. Would the Masteries "Lethality" and "Frenzy" be a good choice for talon? I have them maxed instead of Butcher and i have 3 points on Sorcery instead.

Well considering I never buy any crit chance items, it would literally be completely wasted. And even if I did buy crit chance, I wouldn't take Frenzy unless I'm for some reason intending to take a Trinity Force.
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GREED560 | March 7, 2013 9:36am
Hey, I was just curious for you're opinion. Would the Masteries "Lethality" and "Frenzy" be a good choice for talon? I have them maxed instead of Butcher and i have 3 points on Sorcery instead.
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 6, 2013 11:41pm
Stupidty has no counter, but thanks for ganking. ;)
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Antagonizing | March 6, 2013 11:27pm
Excellent guide. I appreciate the number crunching and time you put into it, as well as the explanations on every aspect (as far as I can tell) of gameplay, even going as far to add those pointers and tips sometimes others just don't think of. Bravo and +1. Also, I hope to counter some of the stupidity that has visited your guide xD
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Funktos (1) | March 6, 2013 6:36pm
Thank you SO much Elsayer and Vapora . I appreciate the quick and in depth responses.

I look forward to mastering Talon, he is such an amazing character. I've been midding very frequently and have done very well ever since I started playing Talon. The only problems I've had so far were with Morde and Fizz, although I won both of those lanes as well. I just need to learn to time my Rake/Ult so Fizz doesn't jump over them. I am a level 30, although I've never played Ranked games (I don't have enough champs to, hahah), so that is probably why my matches are all easy.

Also, I just wanted to say that the reason I created this account yesterday (besides asking for the runes) was to give some compliments to this guide. When I get bored, I read guides on mobafire. When I read Vapora's, it really sucked me into the character. It made me want to play Talon so bad, and the explinations helped me learn very quickly. Fantastic guide, possibly the best one I've read on mobafire.
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 5, 2013 11:42pm
Funktos wrote:

Guys, I need help with runes. Talon is the first champion I've ever bought runes for. I bought the ArPen, Armor, and Magic Res. pens like the guide suggests, and I've noticed an ENORMOUS leap in how powerful Talon is. It made my middle laning so much more simple it was ridiculous. The only concern I have is the quints. I am wondering why Movement speed beats ArPen quints. 1x more movement speed can't help THAT much, can it? Would ArPen/Attack quints help you get the first kill in lane and lead to snowballing more easily?

Thank you in advance, I just want to double check before I waste money on quints.

I used ArPen quints quite often, in fact, in my most recent games I've ALWAYS used ArPen, so yeah, they're good, better for snowballing. But as ElSalyer said, it feels so good to have movement speed quints. And as Talon is one of the fastest characters in the game, % speed benefits him more than it would benefit a slower running champ. But if you're just starting out, get ArPen, I guess. I learnt to play him while using ArPen, and look where I am now. :)
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ElSalyerFan (1) | March 5, 2013 6:29pm
Funktos wrote:

Guys, I need help with runes. Talon is the first champion I've ever bought runes for. I bought the ArPen, Armor, and Magic Res. pens like the guide suggests, and I've noticed an ENORMOUS leap in how powerful Talon is. It made my middle laning so much more simple it was ridiculous. The only concern I have is the quints. I am wondering why Movement speed beats ArPen quints. 1x more movement speed can't help THAT much, can it? Would ArPen/Attack quints help you get the first kill in lane and lead to snowballing more easily?

Thank you in advance, I just want to double check before I waste money on quints.


Talon is one of the fastest champs in the very beggining of the game -350 or something-. this, along with a boots + 3 start and the movement speed quints give you a total of 397 or close to that with tier 1 boots. if you've ever played with anivia you will understand how great this feels, and if you want to E you'r enemy, you WILL do it. you almost ALWAYS do it, you're fast as hell.

when i play almost any AP mid i have to rush mobility boots just to be "near" talon and don't get raped. i think that they are perfect to talon.

oh, and there is the fact that you, even being one of the scariest midders out there, you're still a melee caster, and if they are any good they will try to punish every one of you'r cs with your own blood, so the extra MS will help you to dodge skillshots or even run away from the point 'n clickers.

-o- sorry for the wall of text :3

Tl;Dr ; scale better into lategame, don't get harrased to hell in the early lvls, chase and eventually kill your target 9/10 times in laning phase
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Funktos (1) | March 5, 2013 5:59pm
Guys, I need help with runes. Talon is the first champion I've ever bought runes for. I bought the ArPen, Armor, and Magic Res. pens like the guide suggests, and I've noticed an ENORMOUS leap in how powerful Talon is. It made my middle laning so much more simple it was ridiculous. The only concern I have is the quints. I am wondering why Movement speed beats ArPen quints. 1x more movement speed can't help THAT much, can it? Would ArPen/Attack quints help you get the first kill in lane and lead to snowballing more easily?

Thank you in advance, I just want to double check before I waste money on quints.
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 5, 2013 2:11pm
ShoGUNZzz wrote:

What about his burst combos? So many different variations on it. Pre-6 and Post-6 what do you recommend and why?

Pre-6, start with W if you can, so W E Q. If you can't, aka they're too far away, E Q W AA.

Post-6, you can do two things: If you're in a team-fight and just intend to assassinate your target and get out, E Q W Tiamat R, get out of the enemy team's range, R again. If you want a quick burst to assasinate your target with minimal chance of them flashing away because you're alone with them, or you intend to keep on fighting when they're dead, E Q W R Tiamat, which will bring your R back. This isn't meant to be used in team-fights unless your team has a large advantage and the enemy team will get aced shortly afterwards, before they can focus you.

Joxuu wrote:

It could have been viable before the super buff, but after the super buff, despite being a super buff, it lost 20 AD, which is what Talon most wanted from it, and was given attack speed, which Talon is indifferent to. The only thing good about it is the active, but your burst would take too long if you went E Q W Tiamat BotRK R. Not to mention it would be ****ing confusing remembering what button you're meant to press next.
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Joxuu (313) | March 5, 2013 8:49am
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ShoGUNZzz (1) | March 5, 2013 8:16am
What about his burst combos? So many different variations on it. Pre-6 and Post-6 what do you recommend and why?
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Vapora Dark (420) | March 4, 2013 5:49pm
Solo top Talon can work if you're a much better player than your opponent, but really, most solo top champions just plain counter Talon. Not only that, but junglers always try to shut him down early to prevent him from snowballing, and it's much easier to gank top than mid.

And the Indomitable mastery is stronger vs Talon than it is vs other champions because it cancels out 1 damage for every tick of his bleed, which makes him lose 6 damage on his Q alone. Any solo top champ with a good idea of what their masteries should be, will take Indomitable .

You also have to take into consideration that Talon's kit was designed for bursting enemies down in near enough 1 rotation of spells. Early-game, tanky champions are simply too much for his mana costs. You run out of mana faster than their HP bar drops down.


As for Muramana, I dislike it. Tear is helpful, but it does nothing to help you snowball, and Muramana is a late-game item, that isn't as strong as other items you could get. You also can't stack your tear as fast as someone like Yorick or Kha'Zix could.

Early-game, I just rely on the blue buff, and recalling if I'm ever too low on mana, and I get along fine. If you have any excessive mana problems while playing mid-lane Talon on a constant basis, try being more preservative about harassing with Rake. Remember Talon was built as a burst champ, not a harasser. He isn't meant to cast 10 Rakes before bursting, he's meant to cast 2 or 3 to drop them to 60%, and then burst.

If you're missing Rake a lot, then just try and only use it on them the moment they're getting a last-hit. They have to choose between dodging and missing the cs, or taking the cs in exchange for getting hit by Rake.

Hope this helped.

- Vapora
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sliels | March 4, 2013 8:57am
hello Vapora Dark,
I would like your opinion on top lane talon and at the same time manamune/muramana? The muramana can be stacked early and allows you to spam your rake during the laning phase. This comes in exceptionally well when you have (like me some time ago) a misscommunication in champion select and a random guy picks anivia mid. Building up an early tear allowed me to spam w and even outlane my opponent akali! Eventually you can build it in muramana, which has an active that allows you to burst and auto attack even harder. There is a downside to this that it will definately set back your core for around 5 minutes depending on how the game is going.

~Best regards : Sliels
PS: Very good guide, nicely written and nicely indepth ^^
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Darxai | March 3, 2013 5:26am
Amazing guide, it help'd me a lot to become good Talon player, I mastered it and it became my main.
Was low elo player first time I started to read guides, but thanks to them I reached 1800+ elo

http://s24.postimage.org/j76qhrosl/Nox.jpg
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Helvaen | March 2, 2013 1:24am
Huge fan of Talon! Thanks for helping me bring out his potential
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GREED560 | February 27, 2013 8:48am
Hey, I was just curious for you're opinion. Would the Masteries "Lethality" and "Frenzy" be a good choice for talon? I have them maxed instead of Butcher and i have 3 points on Sorcery instead.
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ShoGUNZzz (1) | February 27, 2013 6:47am
If this has come up before, I'm sorry, but could you elaborate more on his burst combo, combos. I have seen so many ideas on this subject with him. There are countless boards on what combo works best, pre 6 and post 6. His two steroids of his passive and his E seems to create a lot of speculation from many people.

What do you recommended and why? I have seen success with using rake last, after R, because I find it hard to use up close. Also, ganking with R first into E seems to work well too, really surprises. I just wanted to ask because, honestly, who better to ask than you!
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Eaglesking | February 26, 2013 8:34pm
I found this guide yesterday while playing Free-week Talon. I did well enough to warrant purchasing the champion, earlier today while using your guide and item build I obtained my very first Pentakill!!!
I'm going to keep using this guide and Talon, thanks for making this.
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Vapora Dark (420) | February 26, 2013 7:51am
Jayz7 wrote:



One thing I have to mention is, that's no Kill Steal on LOL, only Kill Secure on LOL. Please.

Disregard all his comments, he already apologized in PM long ago. :P
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Jayz7 | February 26, 2013 5:46am
NeshkeBGD wrote:

This is not good.Bunch on AD,no utility,no HP,nothing.You will not do anything good for your team.You will just keep kill stealing.


One thing I have to mention is, that's no Kill Steal on LOL, only Kill Secure on LOL. Please.
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Pdog | February 25, 2013 5:17pm
Nice guide even in 3v3 with the basics of this build, I went 17/4/4
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Vapora Dark (420) | February 24, 2013 3:02pm
Elthron wrote:

I apologize if this has come up before but there are a lot of comments :P. Why do you take Q second instead of E? It would seem like taking E second and then maxing as normal would be slightly more useful early on. At level two you will hardly ever be in range to hit Q (at least not against a typical ranged mid) and using Q to last hit would just be a waste of mana. Taking E second however might help to protect against early ganks as, if/when the jungler ganks you, you can just E to them and you are already half way home. After that just lob W out behind you and they haven't got a hope in hell of catching you. Seems like E would be the more useful of the two to get first. Just wondered.

Yup, you're 100% right, I've been taking E second for ages, I didn't realize my skilling order was still out-dated. I only take Q second vs Diana, Evelynn, etc.

Quoted:
Do you think it is wise to use smart casting on talon?

I think it's wise to smart-cast on any champion apart from on skills like Rocket Grab which require precise aim. But a lot of pros don't smart-cast everything and do fine, so I think it's up to personal preference.

Quoted:
Hey Vapora, what do you think about the sword of the divine on Talon. E will hit it once, then Q a quick second, w and a third. It greatly amplifies his burst. Still I don't really see it any of the builds.

Because it doesn't give any AD. I personally don't think it's viable on Talon, but try it on Shaco. Deceive is already a free crit, SotO gives him another 3 free crits.
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Awildalex | February 24, 2013 10:31am
I made a Moba account, just so I could say this.
First game with Talon with this guide, 18/4. Carried the entire team, and Tripled twice.
Thank you! :D
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AkiraQc | February 23, 2013 3:37pm
Nice guide!!! thumbs up!
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Elthron | February 23, 2013 10:00am
I apologize if this has come up before but there are a lot of comments :P. Why do you take Q second instead of E? It would seem like taking E second and then maxing as normal would be slightly more useful early on. At level two you will hardly ever be in range to hit Q (at least not against a typical ranged mid) and using Q to last hit would just be a waste of mana. Taking E second however might help to protect against early ganks as, if/when the jungler ganks you, you can just E to them and you are already half way home. After that just lob W out behind you and they haven't got a hope in hell of catching you. Seems like E would be the more useful of the two to get first. Just wondered.
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LouisA. (4) | February 23, 2013 3:42am
Do you think it is wise to use smart casting on talon?
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RandomUser-Nr.-69 | February 22, 2013 12:01pm
Hey Vapora, what do you think about the sword of the divine on Talon. E will hit it once, then Q a quick second, w and a third. It greatly amplifies his burst. Still I don't really see it any of the builds.
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Aviddeath | February 21, 2013 1:22pm
Thank you for this build! First game i ever played as Talon was about 10 mins ago, and i went 36/9/6.
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JswatJosh | February 21, 2013 4:11am
Very good build for talon: BC, BT, BT, Frozen Mallet, Boots of Mobility, LW. went 24/13/22, team fed the enemy darius...
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Vapora Dark (420) | February 20, 2013 2:44pm
Darkvisi0n wrote:

Well talon adc isnt good dont try it

Uh... I already knew that... But thanks! ^^
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Darkvisi0n | February 20, 2013 2:15pm
Well talon adc isnt good dont try it
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Darkvisi0n | February 20, 2013 12:49pm
Well it worked at normal games not sure if on SoloQ but thanks that build makes fun.






___________________________________________________________________________________________
(Sry for mistakes)
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Vapora Dark (420) | February 20, 2013 12:27pm
Fleckmar wrote:

I've been playing Talon as my main champion since the last 1 year. I think this is the "perfect" build for Talon. IMO Frozen Mallet is a good defensive option too. 300 hp is not much for an assassin (well, it can be) but 30 AD might change everything. Try getting a frozen mallet instead of Warmog.

Frozen Mallet is viable now, but I'd still rather just have the extra raw tankiness and sustain of Warmogg's. Take it if it works for you though.

anagram wrote:
When you play Talon, always remember that you are a "Skill Based" DPS. NOT an Auto-Attack DPS.

Talon isn't a DPS in any form. :P

anagram wrote:
Ravenous Hydra (I believe) is CORE. Anyone remember Nerubian Assassin roaming with a level 2 Dagon on DotA? Hydra pretty much emulates it, if not, flatly outperforms Dagon. Cleave + Atk Dmg + Active Skill = an unfair addition to your death-dealing skillset. RIOT might nerf Talon's interaction with Ravenous Hydra in the future, so abuse it while you can! (I could be wrong though.)

Yup, I agree with this. Well, not so much Hydra, but Tiamat, definitely. After Tiamat, all you're doing is paying 1200 gold for 25 AD and some lifesteal. I prefer to uprgade Tiamat once most of my build is complete, usually. After it I prefer either a BT or Last Whisper, depending on the game. However, as most people, including people I know are great Talon players, seem to wrongly think it's bad on him, I'd rather not display a Tiamat rush in the cheat-sheet, as it would probably just be a big "DOWNVOTE ME PLEASE" in most peoples' eyes. And they probably won't nerf it, even most meelee champs are prefering BT to Hydra, Hydra is for the most part being largely ignored. No one seems to realize it's a stronger, broken version of DFG for AD champions. :P So thankfully, it probably won't get nerfed straight away, though people might eventually catch on, who knows. By the way, the passive cleave doesn't affect the target you auto-attack, in case you insinuated that. Only the active does.

anagram wrote:
-Snazzy Shoes. Boot picking is kinda fun. You have three to choose from:
1 Merc Treads - Anti-AP, Anti-CC, the generic "Safe Choice". Mind you, it WILL save your skin more times than you can count. When playing DOMINION, NO OTHER BOOT comes close.
2 Ninja Tabi - Anti-AD, the kicks you need if you're taking some beating from the opposition's AD champs. Uncommon pick.
3 Boots of Lucidity - Hyper/Ultra Aggressive Talon Mode. Imagine playing Assassin's Creed, on a time limit assassination mission. Combined with Brutalizer, every mission becomes a real-life hunt of an assassin. Only pick these boots IF you think the game is in your favor.

Boots of Mobility are actually also great boots for Talon, and you don't seem to have considered them. It can be easy to under-estimate the passive movement speed bonus, but quite often, you'll run so fast that even having seen you through a ward, enemies can't reach their tower before you reach them, when ganking. Late-game they're better sold for something else though.

shade609 wrote:
i like playing talon a bit aggressively, so i realy like boots of lucidity on him. but the tenacity from mercs is an absolute life saver. so i was wondering about using zephyr on talon. the other stats it giver are also useful- the bonus movespeed and cd reduction is always welcome, and the op as helps get more mercy procs while the slow from rake is on.

Boots of Lucidity is something I have been considering, but I don't know where I'd put them in the build.
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shade609 | February 19, 2013 10:53pm
i like playing talon a bit aggressively, so i realy like boots of lucidity on him. but the tenacity from mercs is an absolute life saver. so i was wondering about using zephyr on talon. the other stats it giver are also useful- the bonus movespeed and cd reduction is always welcome, and the op as helps get more mercy procs while the slow from rake is on.
i just started playing talon, and iv only played a handful of games with him. im not an expert with him yet, but im certainly trying.
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Jroc213 | February 19, 2013 10:21pm
I must say, Talon is free to play this week, and I have seen devastating Talons and poorly played Talons. I just got done playing as him without any prior knowledge, with Heimerdinger as my main for awhile now. This build is just unbelievable and should help a great deal once I buy Talon. I appreciate the hard work you put into this guid.
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Necrolon | February 19, 2013 8:37am
Great build. 23/3/9 :D
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THESneakybeever | February 18, 2013 10:34pm
Hey thanks for the guide I've tried it in ranked and its been very effective. In regards to facing an AP Master Yi the matchup is fairly easy seeing as you can just silence him as he tries to meditate. Upvoted +1
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CampinCarl9127 | February 17, 2013 5:07pm
Very excellent guide! I've been playing Talon for quite a while now, and this helped me realize I had too much defense in my build. Move speed quints are a MUST in my opinion, often save your life/end theirs. Also now I favor merc scimitar over hexdrinker, more ad AND mr AND a better active than the hexdrinker's passive is. My first game following this build I got really fed (enemy TF mid) and our jungle amumu was pretty good, and between both our AoE's we killed the entire enemy team with just the two of us.

Generally, helped me realize to stop thinking Talon is anything even closely related to a bruiser, and ur job is to make the enemy adc hide behind malphite or sit in the base
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anagram | February 17, 2013 5:32am
Before anything else, just wanted to say I gave an Upvote for this guide. And, it's been awhile since I posted here on MOBAFire.

I have a lot to say about one of my fave champs. But I kinda suck at writing, so I'll go with a "bulleted" write-up on my Talon experience/opinions/playstyle.

-With the fundamental Brutalizer (1st) and Bloodthirster (2nd) item cores, Talon will force you to learn optimal laning. Dancing, last-hitting, bluffing, champ dodging and killing. This is covered by Vapora's guide. When you play Talon, always remember that you are a "Skill Based" DPS. NOT an Auto-Attack DPS. Lane phase is CRUCIAL. (Gold & Exp 1st)

-Ravenous Hydra (I believe) is CORE. Anyone remember Nerubian Assassin roaming with a level 2 Dagon on DotA? Hydra pretty much emulates it, if not, flatly outperforms Dagon. Cleave + Atk Dmg + Active Skill = an unfair addition to your death-dealing skillset. RIOT might nerf Talon's interaction with Ravenous Hydra in the future, so abuse it while you can! (I could be wrong though.)

-Snazzy Shoes. Boot picking is kinda fun. You have three to choose from:
1 Merc Treads - Anti-AP, Anti-CC, the generic "Safe Choice". Mind you, it WILL save your skin more times than you can count. When playing DOMINION, NO OTHER BOOT comes close.
2 Ninja Tabi - Anti-AD, the kicks you need if you're taking some beating from the opposition's AD champs. Uncommon pick.
3 Boots of Lucidity - Hyper/Ultra Aggressive Talon Mode. Imagine playing Assassin's Creed, on a time limit assassination mission. Combined with Brutalizer, every mission becomes a real-life hunt of an assassin. Only pick these boots IF you think the game is in your favor.

-During a skirmish or clash, if you're playing with Friends (or at least good, honest, competent players) always flank or prowl. What do I mean?

Scenario example: "Talon, Purple Team, Late-Game, bottom of map, Red Lizard area. We have the advantage and have the jungle warded, currently hiding in the brush. Enemy Annie wanders too far and I combo her. I get interrupted by enemy Garen and Blitzcrank. I DIDN'T kill Annie, Shadow Assault (Ulti) just in time. DOWN TO 2XX HP. My team jumps in after them, but Garen and Blitz are too hard/tough. I prowl in the brushes, wait for my CD, then pop a Rake (W) from behind. Next thing I know, my team kills 4 enemy champs. 2 mins later, enemy team Surrenders."

Gauge yourself, and your team carefully. And with synergy, and teamplay, YOU CAN reverse the tide of battle.

-Roleplay and HAVE FUN! (Role)Playing Talon as an assassin is fun as hell. You're a cold, calculating, ruthless killing machine. Always about your wits. When Champions need Slaying, YOU ARE the man for the JOB. And don't forget, LOSING is a part of learning. Accept your loss, and find new ways to become better than yesterday.

TL;DR -- Ravenous Hydra is OP on Talon; Merc Treads is the most recommended; Always play with a cool head.

Just my 2 cents.
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LouisA. (4) | February 16, 2013 8:52pm
ARonKeem wrote:

Hey vapora could you make a small guide on how to deal with counters such as Pantheon? i sometimes have trouble with him but i think it would be nice


As vapora said, don't go 1 on 1 with him. But just in case you do, don't use your Q when his shield is up. Always mind the shield or else your burst will get canceled. AA first then Q when his shield is down. His burst can match yours. If you're losing trades, just use ur ulti to escape. Some pantheons play glass cannon and some play him as a tanky burster.
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LifeSAP | February 16, 2013 7:41pm
I remember the first time I played talon, I hated it. then about 3 months later, I decided to try him out again, but that time i used this guide and I carried that game, and the games after that. Thank you for making the time to write this guide.
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LifeSAP | February 16, 2013 7:41pm
I remember the first time I played talon, I hated it. then about 3 months later, I decided to try him out again, but that time i used this guide and I carried that game, and the games after that. Thank you for making the time to write this guide.
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LifeSAP | February 16, 2013 7:41pm
I remember the first time I played talon, I hated it. then about 3 months later, I decided to try him out again, but that time i used this guide and I carried that game, and the games after that. Thank you for making the time to write this guide.
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Fleckmar | February 15, 2013 9:02am
I've been playing Talon as my main champion since the last 1 year. I think this is the "perfect" build for Talon. IMO Frozen Mallet is a good defensive option too. 300 hp is not much for an assassin (well, it can be) but 30 AD might change everything. Try getting a frozen mallet instead of Warmog.
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Icytea | February 15, 2013 2:44am
+1 Excellent guide on Talon, thanks so much sir.

I'm kinda new at playing talon and i pretty much fail at my first few attempts when i tried building him atmog trinity. Almost gave up playing talon till i found your guide here and this is what i get:






Will try some ranked games soon now that i've found solid build for him thanks to you! xD
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PsiGuard (862) | February 14, 2013 5:53pm
Your rating automatically verifies now, though you can go to your profile to initiate the process earlier (I think it checks every week or something).

Anyone who was high elo before the new system was automatically verified when the new one went live. :)
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Vapora Dark (420) | February 14, 2013 12:11pm
Thing is, there are occasions, however extremely rare that they are, that I do buy them, Trinity more often than Infinity. They're not completely unviable, they're just pretty niché buys and are generally out-classed by other items. I classify them as situational, although I might just remove Infinity Edge altogether anyway.

And you could very well be right about the Warmogg's meta Psi, I haven't played too much ranked lately, and what I have played has ended too early for the enemy AD to get a Warmogg's ( or maybe they were just too stupid to get it ). I don't know if I can 1-shot full build AD carries anymore. I'll take some time to PM you with what I've decided when I have more games played in the Warmogg's meta as Talon. Either way, I wouldn't hate on anyone for going more defensive buys instead of full offense in their last item right now. :P

On a COMPLETELY unrelated note, does your Elo verify automatically now or did someone manually verify the Elo of all the previous high Elo players? :P

Edit: Not Elo, division*
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PsiGuard (862) | February 14, 2013 11:52am
Seems a little outdated for the warmogs meta. I don't think you can bet on one-shotting people anymore as an assassin.

Have you tried: + / ?

EDIT: Also if you hate Infinity Edge and Trinity Force so much and don't want to recommend them, take them out of the guide. Or at least the cheatsheet. Don't group ****ty items with viable items, people get confused.
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Vapora Dark (420) | February 14, 2013 11:33am
ARonKeem wrote:

Hey vapora could you make a small guide on how to deal with counters such as Pantheon? i sometimes have trouble with him but i think it would be nice

Pantheon is a direct counter to Talon. Nothing I can tell you to do will change that.

Your only chance is to roam like mad. Grand Skyfall can potentially ruin your first gank if he's aware enough, but after that it has a 150 second CD, and your ganks are simply better than his anyway, most of the time. You're also more mobile than him. Also, the usual tricks apply such as asking your jungler to camp, and such.

But basically, you want to spend as little 1 on 1 time with him as possible.

Quoted:
Thanks so much man! I mean, I don't have him on normal servers yet, but thanks to your guide, I managed to go 44/2/2 with a penta-kill with him on the PBE :3

Well done! :)

Quoted:
ust exchange the GA for an Warmogs

Correct.

Quoted:
and the Hydra for an Infinity Edge

Incorrect.

SirAeros wrote:
Oh Vapora Talon new AD Ratio is about 6.0 they removed .3 from the ult and .2 from the bleed(I miss lategame 500 dmg Bleeds lelwz) if you want I could do the maths on the damage for you

Yup, 6.0 is exactly right, thank you.

Quoted:
Instead of Double Tapping R use your Rake(not recommended if you have BC since it will make you lose Burst) Ignite or Tiamat or Hydra Active since it will trigger the blades ignoring the Delay necessary but only do this if you are sure it will kill the enemy

I'm confused, are you refering to late-game or laning phase? In laning phase I usually burst E Q R, kite, auto attack from behind, chase while waiting for inevitable flash, W after flash and ignite. You can't usually use Tiamat or Hydra's active at that point, so I assume you're refering to late-game. Late-game I never double tap R in a team-fight, I burst E Q W Hydra R, and that's them dead. I use the stealth to get back out of the team-fight to re-enter later on at a suitable moment.

If I want a fast burst in laning phase, I do E Q R W or E Q W R Ignite / HP pot.

Quoted:
On Lane try to use your W in unexpected ways example instead of E-AA-Q-W and Back off use your W before Cutthroating to a target that way you will get the mercy passive and have more chances of catching him of guard and will trigger your passive

Yeah I already do that pretty often, especially vs meelee enemies. ^^ It's harder vs ranged enemies though, they usually try and stay out of your range.

Quoted:
-If you're Balsy enough vrs and meele match up you can start with Q and attempt to do a lvl 1 AA-Q combo
should be like 30%+ someones health early game add AD Runes and Longsword Start for Lelwz

Nope, even then I start Rake. :P It does more damage and applies your passive. I go AA W AA and another AA if possible. They need to eat the first AA to get a last-hit, they can't dodge W, and they're slowed so you can get them with at least 1 other AA, whereas by starting with Q all you can do really is AA Q, lol.

Quoted:
-if you have Bruta+Blue Buff or CDR Boots your lvl 5 Q has aproximately the same CD as your stealth so you can simply sneak around in stealth and come out and AA-Q them again(useful vrs Tankier Match ups)

Yup, I do this plenty too. :P You don't even need that much CDR, it will be on Cd about 0.5 seconds before you go into stealth, and after exitting stealth you can do another AA and then do Q.




Thanks for your commend VagaBond! +Rep given!

As for the defense items, well, this is how I think of it. AD will help you both in-lane and while ganking, while armor and MR will help you in-lane and do nothing for your ganks. MR and armor might be more effective in a 1v1 scenario if you're losing, but I'd rather just get AD, snowball through ganks, and walk back onto my lane 3 kills ahead of my opponent. It's harder to do that with defensive buys.
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VagaBond rfC (3) | February 14, 2013 7:58am
Hi, Vapora!

First off, +1 for an excellent guide to Talon.

I've read the whole guide, and I am so pleased of how thorough and In-depth it has shown to be. You take the time to answer some crucial questions, that I believe will teach - both the inexperienced, and the adept - about this champion!

For example:

Where do you put your wards? The basic place to put them is on one side of your lane, and then you stick to that side of the lane during laning phase. That way if the enemy jungler comes through that side, your ward will see him early, and you can walk back to your tower before he reaches you. If he comes through the opposing side, you're on the opposite side of the lane, and he can't reach you before you get away.

While this came to me as common knowledge, it is a thing that is easily overlooked, when you're a newcomer to League. One of my main philosophies of League is, that you can never go wrong with wards!

You also spice the guide up with both some good humour, and motivational speech. I find many guides on MobaFire to be extremely helpful, when learning how to use a new Champion. But I wanted to emphasize on this, as well as the latter, as it makes one well-written guide altogether.

One thing, however, that has riddled me, when reading through (and I might just have overlooked it), is the emphasis on offensive items. I do agree, after reading through the details, that we want The Bloodthirster, Last Whisper and The Black Cleaver as soon as possible. But haven't you encountered scenarios where it has been more beneficial for you to take a defensive item, such as Negatron Cloak or maybe Warden's Mail, if you're having a tough lane (say, you're Mid-lane, and you're pretty equally footed with a decent-skilled Katarina)?

^ Above question is often a tough not for me to crack, as I can see the benefit of doing both (going full offense, or negating some of that burst, early on, to give you an easier time against your opponent). The AD emphasis might net us enough burst to get the kill. But the Armor will keep us better sustained, in a very harass-oriented lane.
- Your thoughts?


Regards,
Vaga'
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SirAeros (7) | February 13, 2013 10:04am

Just exchange the GA for an Warmogs and the Hydra for an Infinity Edge and be OP.


Hydra is Much better than IE on Talon now basicaly is an Crit that will always happens no matter what while IE has an Luck Factor and still gives Less Wave-Clear,sustain and AD1 which is sad since I loved getting IE on him since 2 shotting ADCs was lewlz

Also Hydra lets you cancel your ultimate early that can mean the difference beetwen someone blinking and escaping with 1 Hp and hearing Enemy has been slain in the announcer chick voice

Oh Vapora Talon new AD Ratio is about 6.0 they removed .3 from the ult and .2 from the bleed(I miss lategame 500 dmg Bleeds lelwz) if you want I could do the maths on the damage for you

oh useful tips I discovered over the course of my experience:

-Instead of Double Tapping R use your Rake(not recommended if you have BC since it will make you lose Burst) Ignite or Tiamat or Hydra Active since it will trigger the blades ignoring the Delay necessary but only do this if you are sure it will kill the enemy

-On Lane try to use your W in unexpected ways example instead of E-AA-Q-W and Back off use your W before Cutthroating to a target that way you will get the mercy passive and have more chances of catching him of guard and will trigger your passive

-If you're Balsy enough vrs and meele match up you can start with Q and attempt to do a lvl 1 AA-Q combo
should be like 30%+ someones health early game add AD Runes and Longsword Start for Lelwz


-if you have Bruta+Blue Buff or CDR Boots your lvl 5 Q has aproximately the same CD as your stealth so you can simply sneak around in stealth and come out and AA-Q them again(useful vrs Tankier Match ups)
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hodenkobold the overpro | February 13, 2013 4:54am
Just exchange the GA for an Warmogs and the Hydra for an Infinity Edge and be OP.
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A Marshmello | February 12, 2013 3:11pm
Thanks so much man! I mean, I don't have him on normal servers yet, but thanks to your guide, I managed to go 44/2/2 with a penta-kill with him on the PBE :3
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Lucorian5 (65) | February 11, 2013 9:35am
ARonKeem wrote:

Hey vapora could you make a small guide on how to deal with counters such as Pantheon? i sometimes have trouble with him but i think it would be nice


Talon would have almost no way of dealing with Pantheon if the Panth player was at all competent. You couldn't even roam very well, because even if you left before him to gank a certain lane Pantheon would beat you to it by miles with Grand Skyfall.
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ARonKeem | February 10, 2013 1:52pm
Hey vapora could you make a small guide on how to deal with counters such as Pantheon? i sometimes have trouble with him but i think it would be nice
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Vapora Dark (420) | February 10, 2013 6:56am

Hey vapora I've been following your guide for 5 months now and i just made an account to give it positive rep.

Anyway I wanted to know what you thought of having spirit of the elderwizard on Talon? I thought it would be good and especially mixed with ionian boots of lucidity.

Also is Talon extremely more hard after the nerf? I haven't had a chance to play it since the nerf and I've only been hearing bad about it.

Thankyou. :D

Spirit is bad on any character that isn't a jungler.

Talon's early-game is the same now as it was before the nerf, whereas late-game his ultimate lost AoE damage, but his full burst, including his ultimate, now does more single-target damage to whoever you use Cutthroat on. Cutthroat's damage amplification didn't used to work, and so Riot needed to fix it by reducing some of Talon's base damages and ratios slightly. I prefer Talon now than before the fix. ( Not nerf )

Quoted:
Excellent guide! Helped me get back into playing Alta...er...Talon again. Combos work like a charm and the itemization is excellent. One thing to note: in your "versus" section, you rate Master Yi as hard. I disagree. After his recent nerf his Meditation no longer heals as much as it used to. In fact, I can quite easily burst him down and AA->Q him as he meditates with a W if he tries to run.

I'll see how the match-up goes in the future.

Quoted:
so it's now okay to put hydra after bruta instead of taking it last?

Yes, it is. I do it if I'm not doing too well, but if I'm snowballing I go for a BT anyway for more AoE damage in team-fights, as Hydra's active / passive doesn't have too much range.

Edit: And using the Hydra route I go Boots > Brutalizer > Tiamat > Last Whisper > Hydra > Black Cleaver.

Quoted:
My only question is - when I upvote a guide and post on it, I never see the "voted +1" in my reply. Do I have to do something to make that appear?

That only happens during the first 20 votes of a guide, if the guide's owner ticks the "Force comment to vote" box while creating the guide. You, unfortunately, are the ~560th voter. :P

Quoted:
dude all you did there was to show us his counter and give us a ****ty build,i mean come on ravenous hydra?

Ravenous Hydra provides higher single-target burst than The Bloodthirster. If you don't understand why, take a close look at its active, and realize it transforms your burst into a 7.5 AD ratio from a 6.5 AD ratio. ( or something like that, I don't know Talon's exact ratio since the fix )

Quoted:
well +1 for the wall of text...but dude,how did it shows you that you have gold and it doesn't show to me?

Because you need to verify your Elo, but MOBAFire is no longer verifying Elos because, well... There is no Elo anymore.

Quoted:
I recently bought Talon and have read your guide and the number 2 guide here, but I still have trouble with him. Im not playing ranked as Im not level 30, and i struggle to get ganks early as people in normak queues dont seem to understand the idea of ganking. I can smash bots easily using this guide, but struggle in normals. I end up dying before i can be of much help, then i start falling behind. Any advice you can give me on how to improve my Talon game?

Also +1 to an awesome guide.

I honestly don't know what to advise you, I haven't touched Talon in pre-30 play for over a year. Just try and reach 6 as soon as you can, and if you're still having problems, tell me then. Bare in mind I was also super frustrated with pre-30 players when I was at that level.
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PwnazorusRexx | February 8, 2013 1:59pm
I recently bought Talon and have read your guide and the number 2 guide here, but I still have trouble with him. Im not playing ranked as Im not level 30, and i struggle to get ganks early as people in normak queues dont seem to understand the idea of ganking. I can smash bots easily using this guide, but struggle in normals. I end up dying before i can be of much help, then i start falling behind. Any advice you can give me on how to improve my Talon game?

Also +1 to an awesome guide.
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Skouty (4) | February 8, 2013 8:34am
well +1 for the wall of text...but dude,how did it shows you that you have gold and it doesn't show to me?
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Skouty (4) | February 8, 2013 8:33am
dude all you did there was to show us his counter and give us a ****ty build,i mean come on ravenous hydra?
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Pyrenaphen (2) | February 6, 2013 9:06am
So I bought Talon and gave him a whirl today, using the core items from this guide and the WEQ recommended combo as a starter.
After a bot game to get a feel for him...
Normal - 18/10/12
Ranked - 17/5/3

And the ranked should be 16/4/3, but I intentionally comboed onto the fountain to get a kill just as the Nexus was going down.

I wholeheartedly agree with the core items on this build. BC and LW do a lot to make your damage closer to True, while BC shore up CDR and health in fair fashion.

Great guide.

My only question is - when I upvote a guide and post on it, I never see the "voted +1" in my reply. Do I have to do something to make that appear?
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LouisA. (4) | February 4, 2013 8:49pm
so it's now okay to put hydra after bruta instead of taking it last?
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RagingRusski | February 4, 2013 5:12pm
Excellent guide! Helped me get back into playing Alta...er...Talon again. Combos work like a charm and the itemization is excellent. One thing to note: in your "versus" section, you rate Master Yi as hard. I disagree. After his recent nerf his Meditation no longer heals as much as it used to. In fact, I can quite easily burst him down and AA->Q him as he meditates with a W if he tries to run.
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GodofClouds | February 2, 2013 3:56am
Hey vapora I've been following your guide for 5 months now and i just made an account to give it positive rep.

Anyway I wanted to know what you thought of having spirit of the elderwizard on Talon? I thought it would be good and especially mixed with ionian boots of lucidity.

Also is Talon extremely more hard after the nerf? I haven't had a chance to play it since the nerf and I've only been hearing bad about it.

Thankyou. :D
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Vapora Dark (420) | February 2, 2013 3:31am
Serohyi wrote:

Oh noes, "Seeker's Armguard", are we doomed now?

Nope, we just lost some laning dominance. Talon still counters most AP carries with it regardless, just not as much.

Assassini wrote:
Hi I want to ask how do you deal with lux and fiddlestick in lane. They keep harrassing me from farming and use stun/fear when I jump on them??

Vs Fiddle, after he throws his crow at you run away from your minions, or it will repeatedly bounce back from your minions onto you. When he fears and drains you, E to him and burst. Even so, Fiddlesticks is actually a hard match-up.

Vs Lux, just dodge all her skill-shots. To jump on her, don't just run right up to her, wait for the right moment when she's really close and jump on her. Juke around her while you're attacking her so she can't get a clear shot with her snare.

Quoted:
lol Cleaver nerf, BT more expensive plus Seeker armsguard.... I don't know what to say :((

Meh, Cleaver nerf not too important, Seeker's Armguard is possible to deal with.

As for BT, I've actually started to just take Ravenous Hydra after Brutalizer instead. It's better as a first item than I thought, your wave clear is immense with it. W + Hydra active clears a whole minion wave at level 9. And of course, your burst damage with it is stronger. And seeing as Hydra is now only 300 gold more expensive, there's pretty much no reason not to take it.
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Assassini | January 31, 2013 9:51pm
Hi I want to ask how do you deal with lux and fiddlestick in lane. They keep harrassing me from farming and use stun/fear when I jump on them??

P/S: lol Cleaver nerf, BT more expensive plus Seeker armsguard.... I don't know what to say :((
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Serohyi | January 31, 2013 5:18pm
Oh noes, "Seeker's Armguard", are we doomed now?
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 31, 2013 3:05pm
xcd222 wrote:


Thanks for the thought but most ap yi are stupid at my server healing after landing a kill during a team fight. But what about shadow ***aut? Do you have to use it during the burst? It is because of this I always asking questions right now. I want to reserve his shadow assault for an escape opportunity.

Yes, you do. You use it as both the finisher, and to get away from the enemy team in stealth. You don't usually have to use both ticks of your ultimate to kill someone, so you can burst them then stealth and walk away.
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xcd222 | January 31, 2013 12:07pm


Death Lotus isn't actually that strong anyway, it's the rest of her kit that makes her hard to deal with. For example, her E places her right behind you, which makes dodging W extremely easy, and she's pretty mobile even without it thanks to her W. And you can't use your gap close
r or she WILL be able to use Death Lotus.

And yes, you can interrupt Meditate, but a smart AP Yi heals under his tower, so unless you want to tower dive, interrupting it then isn't an option. And you can't burst him without using your E, so you can't directly burst him and interrupt his heal when he tries to sustain through your burst.

Thanks for the thought but most ap yi are stupid at my server healing after landing a kill during a team fight. But what about shadow ***aut? Do you have to use it during the burst? It is because of this I always asking questions right now. I want to reserve his shadow assault for an escape opportunity.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 31, 2013 7:47am
xcd222 wrote:

Talon having trouble with ap yi and katarina huh? Cutthroat can stop death lotus but what about meditate?

Death Lotus isn't actually that strong anyway, it's the rest of her kit that makes her hard to deal with. For example, her E places her right behind you, which makes dodging W extremely easy, and she's pretty mobile even without it thanks to her W. And you can't use your gap closer or she WILL be able to use Death Lotus.

And yes, you can interrupt Meditate, but a smart AP Yi heals under his tower, so unless you want to tower dive, interrupting it then isn't an option. And you can't burst him without using your E, so you can't directly burst him and interrupt his heal when he tries to sustain through your burst.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 31, 2013 7:36am
LouisA. wrote:

This build is intentionally made for 1500 elo players and below right? I came up against another talon who was a 1700 elo player. He was outfarming me a bit and was getting 2-3 kills higher than i do. his build was: Triforce, Iceborn, BT, Bruta, Frozen Mallet and boots. I do more burst damage than him but something was missing. and BTW, he was always with morde -_- I knew we were going to lose because of our match-up. My question though is: "Does his build work on higher elo?"

No, rofl. He was trolling. Tri-force okay, I know some high Elo players think it's good, but he took ICEBORN GAUNTLET with it. The passives don't stack, literally the only thing he got from Gauntlet was armor, mana and AP.

I assume he started boots, Brut and BT, then just started buying trash items because it was a complete stomp for him. Most high Elo players use similar builds to mine, if not the same. The only thing that some players change is Scimitar instead of Hydra, Warmogg's instead of GA, which I will probably be changing soon myself, and some prefer to finish BC before building LW.

The build is for all Elos, the guide itself is for 1500 and below, but probably works higher too.
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LouisA. (4) | January 31, 2013 5:52am
This build is intentionally made for 1500 elo players and below right? I came up against another talon who was a 1700 elo player. He was outfarming me a bit and was getting 2-3 kills higher than i do. his build was: Triforce, Iceborn, BT, Bruta, Frozen Mallet and boots. I do more burst damage than him but something was missing. and BTW, he was always with morde -_- I knew we were going to lose because of our match-up. My question though is: "Does his build work on higher elo?"
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xcd222 | January 31, 2013 2:01am
Talon having trouble with ap yi and katarina huh? Cutthroat can stop death lotus but what about meditate?
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 30, 2013 3:13pm

if you find a way to flash-e as a big blink please let us all now (maybe with the cursor in the enemy and pressing f+e at the same time) not sure.

It's by pressing whatever key you've got Flash binded to and immediately clicking E on them right afterwards. I do it all the time, I just wasn't aware you could do it fast enough to make it appear as a single blink. The problem is actually managing to do it that fast. If you have high ping you probably won't be able to.

Quoted:
my point is, what do you do against a full bruiser-tank team?

If they're stacking armor, build Last Whisper after BT. If they're stacking HP, build another BT or Ravenous Hydra after BT. I imagine they would have been high on HP than armor, considering Vlad gets free HP, Cho gets free HP, Sion gets free HP and Mundo needs to buy HP for his ult.

My exact build order in that game would have been Boots > Brutalizer > BT > Tiamat > Black Cleaver > Hydra > BT. For my last item I would have taken either Trinity Force or Guardian Angel. I can't really say which because I don't know exactly how tanky they were, but like you said, you managed to kill Vlad by DPS'ing him down. DPS is more effective vs tanks than burst is, so the "counter" to it is to get some DPS, in the form of Trinity Force. The fact that you had DPS with 3 lifesteal items and 2 HP items would have been enough survivability.

Trinity Force is in general, a bad item to buy. But it does have its uses.
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ElSalyerFan (1) | January 30, 2013 2:39pm
a last thing to ask -man i feel like im spamming-

it was a game 1 or 2 days ago that i faced a vlad in lane, wasn't big deal except for the fack that he can dodge my R with his troll pool but that's not the important thing.

the problem started when the team fight began, we where against a draven, mundo, chogat, vladimir and a tanky dps fifth guy (don't remember who, maybe ad sion) the only one that i could burst down was draven and that should be my job, but the fact is that every time that i saw him he exploded, and he wasn't a big deal, he ended up like 3/12 thanks to me. the problem was that he was so behind that we had no problem with him BUT chogat got fed, sion got fed, mundo was going good and vladimir was so tanky... all hp tanks so the holy trinity didn't worked that much.

they won almost all the teamfights 4vs5, without draven, i couldn't kill cho or mundo, i killed vlad but with tons of dps, and that is not the idea considering that i can be focused down with ease.

my point is, what do you do against a full bruiser-tank team?

__________________________________

EDIT: jesus my grammar
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ElSalyerFan (1) | January 30, 2013 2:18pm

That was the fastest Flash-E I've ever seen, I didn't even know it was even possible to make it look like your Flash and your E were just 1 big super blink. I honestly hope the reason I haven't done that before is I haven't tried rather than my ping is too high to do it, I want to do that really badly now. :( It doesn't surprise me that he's 2.3k Elo. :P

Yeah, I forgot to mention the HP pot thing, but that works too. And it's not bugged. To stop Talon's ultimate from damaging an enemy for each blade that hits them, Riot made it so any 1 enemy can only be hit by Talon's ultimate every 0.5 seconds, to stop people being hit by 2 blades and receiving double the damage. If you draw the blades in too fast, it will hit them the first time, then go back through them before the 0.5 second delay is finished, therefore not damaging them a second time.

You have to learn to space it out slightly, unfortunately. It's even possible to draw the blades in the exact same moment you send them out, meaning your ultimate goes on cooldown without doing anything.


my ping is too high to do it too, that's why i tried to do it in diferent ways, i though that in the same way as you can autoatack and then e doing a blink - aa. you can e "marking him" then flash. but it seems like it doesn't work.

ty for the shadow assault delay thing, it seems balanced and necesary.. sadly. would you imagine finding a facechecker scrub going to your bush, W-Q-R-E?, making with the e all the blades hit him in the way back? :P

i want to say that i support you'r guide in any way that i can, i've used it and read it entirely in all the upgrades you've done to it, i find you're one of the best talons out there... i created this account so i can give a +1 to the guide.

if you find a way to flash-e as a big blink please let us all now (maybe with the cursor in the enemy and pressing f+e at the same time) not sure.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 30, 2013 1:51pm
That was the fastest Flash-E I've ever seen, I didn't even know it was even possible to make it look like your Flash and your E were just 1 big super blink. I honestly hope the reason I haven't done that before is I haven't tried rather than my ping is too high to do it, I want to do that really badly now. :( It doesn't surprise me that he's 2.3k Elo. :P

Yeah, I forgot to mention the HP pot thing, but that works too. And it's not bugged. To stop Talon's ultimate from damaging an enemy for each blade that hits them, Riot made it so any 1 enemy can only be hit by Talon's ultimate every 0.5 seconds, to stop people being hit by 2 blades and receiving double the damage. If you draw the blades in too fast, it will hit them the first time, then go back through them before the 0.5 second delay is finished, therefore not damaging them a second time.

You have to learn to space it out slightly, unfortunately. It's even possible to draw the blades in the exact same moment you send them out, meaning your ultimate goes on cooldown without doing anything.
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ElSalyerFan (1) | January 30, 2013 1:28pm



1. Just the AA damage, but the initial impact of Noxian Diplomacy is treated as AA damage. The bleed however, isn't affected by Mercy.

2. I use Flash - E to catch people completely off-guard. People don't expect me to blink half-way across the lane to them and burst them down right in front of their team. The element of surprise is what makes it effective, and they usually can't do anything to save themselves. I don't know why you would want to E - flash, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

3. It is slightly delayed unfortunately, correct. If you have Ignite available, you can Ignite soon after you click R and it will immediately bring the blades back in. But if you Ignite too early, your ultimate will only do damage once, or may not even damage at all, so beware.


My pleasure.


ty for the answers, let me explain myself, i have watched this video and i was surprised of how he did it that fast, the e-flash and the double r tap. even i as a talon player was surprised as it was instant.

tip: i'm now in a custom game testing a few things, and this is interesting: if i want to use the r as full damage and i have no problems in blowing my stealth (in lane, in teamfights i should kill with the first r) i put a mana potion in the 4th slot, so i E-aa-Q-W-R-4. the double R is instant, but i'm not sure, maybe is bugged in the same way as flash -the r don't go back-, but it has worked the 3 times i've tested it.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 30, 2013 1:24pm
xcd222 wrote:

Is the attack speed of talon fast enough till late game without depending on items that increase attack speed?

Refer to Psiguard's post. ^

Talon depends mainly on his spells for damage. He scales on AD like an AP caster scales on AP. Attack speed does nothing whatsoever for his spells. And you only auto-attack like twice each team-fight anyway.
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PsiGuard (862) | January 30, 2013 1:15pm
xcd222 wrote:

Is the attack speed of talon fast enough till late game without depending on items that increase attack speed?

One does not simply autoattack with Talon....
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xcd222 | January 30, 2013 1:11pm
Is the attack speed of talon fast enough till late game without depending on items that increase attack speed?
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 30, 2013 1:07pm

O_0....I'M AM ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY BY THIS GUIDE!!! You speak to me in ways that almost seem religious, you clarify things that were beyond my understanding, you will change the way I play Talon forever, you have changed the way I think when playing, you have just become my most respected Talon player and you will always have my support. I'm speechless (except what I've all ready said O.O).
Your new found die hard fan:
~LeagueLord519

Congratulations on writing the biggest compliment I've ever received! *Confetti appears out of nowhere*

Genkakuzai wrote:
So it's not worth getting a Frozen Mallet for the slow that will guarantee you the 10% extra dmg from your passive at all times?

No. 10% of 400 = 40. If you have 400 AD, your auto-attack will be increased by 40 damage, while the AD you get from it in the first place is really small. Remember your passive only affects auto-attacks, not your entire burst.

Well, when I first started Talon I always used this guide so for that I am grateful but to be completely honest, I have found that all you really need to succeed with Talon is as much AD as is possible. My usual build now is situational boots, occasionally a black cleaver(depends on who the enemy champs are), and 4-5 bloodthirsters(depending on whether or not I use the cleaver). You can disagree all you want but numbers dont lie. Even on a losing game I normally get at least 4 times more kills than deaths. Once you have the stacks on the bloodthirsters your end game damage is over 600. Talon becomes an unbeatable force that if he doesnt manage the huge triple or quadra kills at least decides the team battles. The only time I go down is when I get crowd controlled by at least 2-4 different champs and they all focus me or I just say screw it and dive the nexus end game. If you dont believe me just keep track of my match history. My summoner name is Jammedchris1004. Now dont take this to mean Talon is an easy champion cause hes not. You need to pay attention to which enemies have what abilities on cooldown and know when to jump and who to target. You definitely need to know when to run the hell away so you dont lose your stacks.

You're level 21, no offense intended. Keep on stacking BT's while it works, but you will reach a time where it will feel weaker than it used to.

It's not a terrible build by all means, but at a higher level of play it isn't optimal. You'll know what I mean if you ever do reach that higher level of play, but there's no chance of that happening until you're level 30, so just sit back and enjoy the present.

xcd222 wrote:
You don't use phantom dancer?

Here is what I think about Phantom Dancer:

Spoiler: Click to view


Hopefully that cleared up what my opinion of Phantom Dancer is.

LouisA. wrote:
Yeah you're right. Vapora already calculated that before this guide was updated for s3. I can even remember him calling it JUST FOR FUN haha stacking 6 BT's. I believe he was showing how BT beats tri-force big time.

Haha, that was nothing to do with Trinity Force. It was simply calculating how much raw damage you could get out of 6 Bloodthirsters while completely ignoring armor. It is neither the highest damage build, nor the most effective build, it was just imagining how much damage that would do, as the name suggested, just for fun.

LouisA. wrote:
My favorites are Pantheon and Talon and i just tried and noticed that the build in this guide also works amazingly on Pantheon hahaha.

Yup. And Kha'Zix and Zed. :P

Hi Vapora, i've read your guide and i love talon since... november 2012? i'm not sure. well, i have a couple of questions and i hope you can answer me some of them (btw sorry for my bad english)

1.- Is noxian diplomacy procd by mercy? or just the aa damage?

2.- Is there any way that i can flash-e to the enemy? if i flash then e the enemy have a little time to react but sometimes is a long time and if i e-flash the e "animation" is canceled.

3.- How can i do the double r tap? double tapping it has a 1 sec delay and by that time the enemy is not silenced anymore -so they can flash away from the second tap- and if i R-ignite i loose the mastery ad bonus.

I hope you can see this and answer me, i love this guide and it helped me a lot when i started with this awesome champ.

1. Just the AA damage, but the initial impact of Noxian Diplomacy is treated as AA damage. The bleed however, isn't affected by Mercy.

2. I use Flash - E to catch people completely off-guard. People don't expect me to blink half-way across the lane to them and burst them down right in front of their team. The element of surprise is what makes it effective, and they usually can't do anything to save themselves. I don't know why you would want to E - flash, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

3. It is slightly delayed unfortunately, correct. If you have Ignite available, you can Ignite soon after you click R and it will immediately bring the blades back in. But if you Ignite too early, your ultimate will only do damage once, or may not even damage at all, so beware.

thanks for this nice guide, Vapora

My pleasure.
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Todesklinge8 | January 30, 2013 9:59am
thanks for this nice guide, Vapora
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ElSalyerFan (1) | January 29, 2013 4:44pm
btw i want to add a tip, most talon players know it but still is great for people who will play him for the 4-5 time. if you e the enemy you will not insta-atack him so you can use it to escape through jungle camps but if you right click before e'ign the enemy you will do an insta autoatack, then you can Q and use the well know atack animation cancelling to do the largest combo e-aa-q-w-ignite-r-r in less time.
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ElSalyerFan (1) | January 29, 2013 4:41pm
Hi Vapora, i've read your guide and i love talon since... november 2012? i'm not sure. well, i have a couple of questions and i hope you can answer me some of them (btw sorry for my bad english)

1.- Is noxian diplomacy procd by mercy? or just the aa damage?

2.- Is there any way that i can flash-e to the enemy? if i flash then e the enemy have a little time to react but sometimes is a long time and if i e-flash the e "animation" is canceled.

3.- How can i do the double r tap? double tapping it has a 1 sec delay and by that time the enemy is not silenced anymore -so they can flash away from the second tap- and if i R-ignite i loose the mastery ad bonus.

I hope you can see this and answer me, i love this guide and it helped me a lot when i started with this awesome champ.
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LouisA. (4) | January 29, 2013 6:09am
My favorites are Pantheon and Talon and i just tried and noticed that the build in this guide also works amazingly on Pantheon hahaha.
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LouisA. (4) | January 29, 2013 6:06am

Well, when I first started Talon I always used this guide so for that I am grateful but to be completely honest, I have found that all you really need to succeed with Talon is as much AD as is possible. My usual build now is situational boots, occasionally a black cleaver(depends on who the enemy champs are), and 4-5 bloodthirsters(depending on whether or not I use the cleaver). You can disagree all you want but numbers dont lie. Even on a losing game I normally get at least 4 times more kills than deaths. Once you have the stacks on the bloodthirsters your end game damage is over 600. Talon becomes an unbeatable force that if he doesnt manage the huge triple or quadra kills at least decides the team battles. The only time I go down is when I get crowd controlled by at least 2-4 different champs and they all focus me or I just say screw it and dive the nexus end game. If you dont believe me just keep track of my match history. My summoner name is Jammedchris1004. Now dont take this to mean Talon is an easy champion cause hes not. You need to pay attention to which enemies have what abilities on cooldown and know when to jump and who to target. You definitely need to know when to run the hell away so you dont lose your stacks.


Yeah you're right. Vapora already calculated that before this guide was updated for s3. I can even remember him calling it JUST FOR FUN haha stacking 6 BT's. I believe he was showing how BT beats tri-force big time.
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xcd222 | January 29, 2013 2:18am
You don't use phantom dancer?
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Jammedchris1004 | January 28, 2013 7:56pm
Well, when I first started Talon I always used this guide so for that I am grateful but to be completely honest, I have found that all you really need to succeed with Talon is as much AD as is possible. My usual build now is situational boots, occasionally a black cleaver(depends on who the enemy champs are), and 4-5 bloodthirsters(depending on whether or not I use the cleaver). You can disagree all you want but numbers dont lie. Even on a losing game I normally get at least 4 times more kills than deaths. Once you have the stacks on the bloodthirsters your end game damage is over 600. Talon becomes an unbeatable force that if he doesnt manage the huge triple or quadra kills at least decides the team battles. The only time I go down is when I get crowd controlled by at least 2-4 different champs and they all focus me or I just say screw it and dive the nexus end game. If you dont believe me just keep track of my match history. My summoner name is Jammedchris1004. Now dont take this to mean Talon is an easy champion cause hes not. You need to pay attention to which enemies have what abilities on cooldown and know when to jump and who to target. You definitely need to know when to run the hell away so you dont lose your stacks.
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Genkakuzai (1) | January 28, 2013 3:13pm
So it's not worth getting a Frozen Mallet for the slow that will guarantee you the 10% extra dmg from your passive at all times?
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LeagueLord519 (2) | January 27, 2013 9:05pm
O_0....I'M AM ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY BY THIS GUIDE!!! You speak to me in ways that almost seem religious, you clarify things that were beyond my understanding, you will change the way I play Talon forever, you have changed the way I think when playing, you have just become my most respected Talon player and you will always have my support. I'm speechless (except what I've all ready said O.O).
Your new found die hard fan:
~LeagueLord519
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 26, 2013 1:33am
Serohyi wrote:

I had another Question: what do you suggest to do if the Lane isnt running well, or if their jungler "babysits" mid. I mean babysitting while it is warded, so you dont get killed because you see it beforehand, but you know, when they start focusing you and keep you from farming up.

If you're managing to stay alive in the ganks, ward the enemy jungle, and kill the jungler whenever he's low in it. Repeat until he gets the message.

Alternatively, you can go gank other lanes.

Why not sub the Guardian Angel for an Iceborn Gauntlet? That 125% AD damage is perfect, and the slow doesn't hurt either. If you're going to include the Hydra for its active, then I'd say the IG is just as solid of a choice for its passive.

Iceborn Gauntlet isn't nearly as strong in terms of survivability, and that's why I take GA. Additionally, 125% of your base AD is only ~136 damage. A B. F. Sword out-damages that.

Omniblaze wrote:
for most part i agree with this guide
howevor its possible to make a somewhat tanky talon with nearly 450 ad end game
take your masteries except go more into the defense tree instead of utility
get a crystal flask early game and you shouldnt have anymore mana problems

items-
boots i ussually take ludicity unless im having trouble, more cd, more harass, faster abilitys
bloodthirster still a must
same with black cleaver
maw mag res might not be great but with a bit of mag res runes for early game you can easily get over 100 end game with his natural mag res growth
warmongs, might not seem like best choice on somone like talon, but extra hp and survivability while your burst is down
atma impaler will go well with that warmongs because of its passive, decent armor as well, only thing really wasted is the crit chance

hydra isnt really good on him, yea hes got alot of ad and it will do some damage, but as you even said in your guide hes not a auto attacker and as such its effect wont get much use

It wouldn't get you quite as much as 450 AD, the entire Fratmog's combo only gets you about 60 AD, in 2 items. Not to mention armor in such small amounts has become useless in season 3.

Hydra is good. Just ignore the AoE passive that's wasted, it's the active that makes it a beast. 75 AD on a 7.5 AD ratio burst is better than 100 AD on a 6.5 AD ratio burst.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 26, 2013 12:44am
PrettyGood wrote:

"high RISH-high reward."

**** albableat
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PrettyGood | January 25, 2013 7:09pm
Hey very nice guide, even though I don't own or play Talon, I found this very informative on how he works and what he does to do so well.

When I was reading the "If your playing an assassin, build like an assassin" part of your guide,
"That, my friends, is high rish-high reward. In albableat's words, "If you're playing an assassin, build him like an assassin.""

Just a simple spelling error but I thought you might want to correct it, "high RISH-high reward."

Anyways very nice guide, +1 from me.
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ANIMTHIE | January 25, 2013 12:14pm
I love your guide. I find it very useful. thank you. +1
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Omniblaze | January 24, 2013 3:53pm

Why not sub the Guardian Angel for an Iceborn Gauntlet? That 125% AD damage is perfect, and the slow doesn't hurt either. If you're going to include the Hydra for its active, then I'd say the IG is just as solid of a choice for its passive.


trinity force do that better, just more expensive
alrdy tried it and not recommended unless just insanely fed
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Omniblaze | January 24, 2013 3:49pm
for most part i agree with this guide
howevor its possible to make a somewhat tanky talon with nearly 450 ad end game
take your masteries except go more into the defense tree instead of utility
get a crystal flask early game and you shouldnt have anymore mana problems

items-
boots i ussually take ludicity unless im having trouble, more cd, more harass, faster abilitys
bloodthirster still a must
same with black cleaver
maw mag res might not be great but with a bit of mag res runes for early game you can easily get over 100 end game with his natural mag res growth
warmongs, might not seem like best choice on somone like talon, but extra hp and survivability while your burst is down
atma impaler will go well with that warmongs because of its passive, decent armor as well, only thing really wasted is the crit chance

hydra isnt really good on him, yea hes got alot of ad and it will do some damage, but as you even said in your guide hes not a auto attacker and as such its effect wont get much use
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Halfwaycroox | January 22, 2013 7:42pm
Why not sub the Guardian Angel for an Iceborn Gauntlet? That 125% AD damage is perfect, and the slow doesn't hurt either. If you're going to include the Hydra for its active, then I'd say the IG is just as solid of a choice for its passive.
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Rage Alc (1) | January 22, 2013 1:46pm

[*] I created an account just to say that this build is really awesome, the best build for talon, the guide is very detailed and it works really well. But i need some tips for the Talon after the nerf, i have not tested it yet...

PS: Sorry for the bad english, im Brazilian


Me and Vapora pretty much came to an agreement that there is no nerf on Talon. if anything, he's so much stronger than he was before. Just play him the same way as what's in the guide.
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LouisA. (4) | January 22, 2013 12:59am
If the lane is not running well, ask help from your team mates to back you up and on team fights if they focus on you. . . . well, just stay behind when there's a team fight and that's when your assassin instincts should go in. Get in, kill the carry or the squishy and then get out. GA is a must if you get focused on.
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Serohyi | January 21, 2013 6:31pm
I had another Question: what do you suggest to do if the Lane isnt running well, or if their jungler "babysits" mid. I mean babysitting while it is warded, so you dont get killed because you see it beforehand, but you know, when they start focusing you and keep you from farming up.
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davgon1982 | January 21, 2013 1:55pm
Thx for this guide bro, i just bought talon and i have a hard time to understand why my burst dmg is not enough to kill the carrier. Now i will go and practice this and i will send you a screenshoot or a link to my youtube channel when i become a sexy god of dead. :D
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Void Reaper | January 21, 2013 1:11pm
[*] I created an account just to say that this build is really awesome, the best build for talon, the guide is very detailed and it works really well. But i need some tips for the Talon after the nerf, i have not tested it yet...

PS: Sorry for the bad english, im Brazilian
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DarknessDream | January 21, 2013 2:06am
Amazing Talon guide :D works great with me every game, didnt lose any lanes with him up to now (over 70 games). And about the ap yi mid: talon rips him apart like most other mid lanes. yi dmg may be strong early game but his mana cost is high and your silence interrupts his channeling heal. So it is pretty much gg for you if you play smart^^. (if someone else already said this then disregard this part and just note how awesome this guide is)
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Powerhauz (1) | January 19, 2013 5:57pm
I realize you may have already answered this and I'm too lazy to search the 50-odd pages of comments, BUT what are your 5th and 6th items most of the time? Are they always Hydra and GA or does it vary. I still use the triple BT finish no extra armor or MR, and it works beautifully. What/when should I buy differently for finishing (assuming i don't need MoM or Scimitar or is scimitar recommended now.)


EDIT: OMGWTFPOTATO If I would just look at the notes in the cheat sheet. *facepalm* I love talon now thanks to this guide, and I rarely lose. +1 sorry for the long comment about what I should have seen earlier. GGWP
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 19, 2013 11:08am
Rage Alc wrote:

Even though they say its a nerf, I don't seem to feel any difference much...Okay I think maybe I'm actually killing things faster. I haven't really seen any difference with Shadow Assault yet, but games I've been in haven't been too long enough for it to really matter as a game breaker. Either way, the build still works excellently.

That's why I wasn't calling it a nerf, just a change. I personally prefer post-"nerf" Talon, dat E man. And like you said, I haven't noticed much of a difference with Shadow Assault, so imo Talon's more stronk now.
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mrlunes | January 19, 2013 10:31am
thanks for the build, it has really helped me a lot! i never know what to do for my masteries since there are so many options. i have gone from 5/10/5 games to 20/5/15 games. thanks
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Rage Alc (1) | January 19, 2013 9:56am
Even though they say its a nerf, I don't seem to feel any difference much...Okay I think maybe I'm actually killing things faster. I haven't really seen any difference with Shadow Assault yet, but games I've been in haven't been too long enough for it to really matter as a game breaker. Either way, the build still works excellently.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 18, 2013 1:26pm
brz-.- wrote:

How about Manamute it now it gives 20 AD, and mutch needed mana, maxed out it gives 60 AD plus about 100 MD , and it's cheap. Still not viable ??
For early sustain it's good, im allways out of mana, and it keeps getting better

Nope, still not viable. It's a 2100 gold investment, which will help you later on in the game. That is the opposite of snowballing, early-game you buy items to increase your damage as much as you possibly can, to crush the enemy team early on, and end the game before it reaches the stage where Manamune would be benefitting you.

You should learn to manage your mana better, I don't usually go OOM.

zeaph wrote:
i was wondering have you thought about as a optional item for the Hydra Youmuu's Ghostblade not only for the +20 armor pen but also for the 10% cooldown reduc and the active 20% speed increase?

Nope, not enough AD.

Serohyi wrote:
Because Ad Casters got pretty famous since Season 3, would you also consider adding champions like Pantheon or Kha'Zix to the match-up Section?

Anything else: excellent Guide, improved my Gameplay with Talon a lot!

Thanks! :) I might add other AD casters, but I haven't really seen many so I can't say 100% certain that I know how to play the match-ups. I do know however, that Pantheon counters Talon, and Kha'zix is just super strong in general, so Talon probably loses both match-ups.
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Serohyi | January 18, 2013 8:10am
Because Ad Casters got pretty famous since Season 3, would you also consider adding champions like Pantheon or Kha'Zix to the match-up Section?

Anything else: excellent Guide, improved my Gameplay with Talon a lot!
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zeaph | January 17, 2013 4:44pm
i was wondering have you thought about as a optional item for the Hydra Youmuu's Ghostblade not only for the +20 armor pen but also for the 10% cooldown reduc and the active 20% speed increase?
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brz-.- | January 17, 2013 4:14am
How about Manamute it now it gives 20 AD, and mutch needed mana, maxed out it gives 60 AD plus about 100 MD , and it's cheap. Still not viable ??
For early sustain it's good, im allways out of mana, and it keeps getting better
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Minosaurus | January 16, 2013 1:03pm
Your Guide is so Crazy, just so good, then no other build guid is' i have Played my First game with talon in a ranked^^ and i have won!!! Just thanks to you, to made this guide!
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 16, 2013 10:35am
Well like I said, his base damages and ratios on a single target, despite the nerf, are actually higher now Cutthroat works. It's only his ********ed precious AoE Shadow Assault which won't be amplified by 15% to anyone you don't Cutthroat that's lost out on some serious damage. 60 base damage, and 0.3 AD ratio.

Nerf to his AoE which made him so strong, but buff to his single-target damage. I think I'll probably prefer the pre-fix Talon, but it's hard to say an assassin's been nerfed when he now kills **** faster and more effectively. And who knows, maybe now his burst will be bat-**** ******ed and he'll be even stronger than before.
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PsiGuard (862) | January 16, 2013 10:06am
I think it's probably still a nerf overall, though I understand it's moderated by the Cutthroat fix (lol, can't believe such a bad bug persisted for so long). They nerfed a lot of the popular AD mid picks in part to balance out the ridiculous effects of the new black cleaver. Assassins became so much stronger this season. I'm not surprised at all to see talon, lee and kha'zix nerfs.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 16, 2013 7:24am
The nerf wasn't that bad. I'm even wondering if it should even be considered a nerf.

Aces93 wrote:
they didn't buff Cutthroat, they just fixed a bug where it didn't apply the dmg amp sometimes

It didn't "sometimes" not apply the damage amplification, it NEVER did. If your auto-attack did 100 damage, and you used E to amplify it by 15% and auto-attacked again, it would display 115 damage, but if you looked at your enemy's HP bar, you would see that it was ONLY actually doing 100 damage.

I don't want to call it a nerf, because it was more of an "adjustment". Keeping his base damages and ratios the same with the new Cutthroat would make him strong as hell. Instead, they had to reduce them a little. But if you amplify both the ratios that got nerfed by 15%, they are actually stronger than they were before. Same with his ult's base damage, it used to do 260 damage at lvl 3, now it does 220. Amplify 220 by 15%, and it now does 330 damage. That's 70 more damage than it used to do. The down-side is that you only really notice the damage amplification when you start maxing E, making it barely noticeable from levels 1-13. BUT, early-game his ult hasn't lost any damage at all, and his bleed only lost 8 damage at level 1, and you don't even have that much AD earlier on, so the ratios hit isn't that important considering they were so small.

The only REAL "nerf" I see here is that Cutthroat only affects 1 target, so Talon's lost some of the AoE that made him so strong in team-fights. Regrettable, but the enhanced single-target burst makes him much harder for AD carries to defend. I recently had trouble in ranked vs a Corki who built Iceborn Gauntlet against me.

Edit: Ffs but now all my calculations are off. Riot wai. ;c
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Aces93 | January 15, 2013 11:03pm
Talon was just nerfed.... :(
Because of you and this magnificent guide, he is my favorite champion, i'm in this phase where i ONLY play him. But he was just nerfed. Season 3 struck, they didn't buff Cutthroat, they just fixed a bug where it didn't apply the dmg amp sometimes, but they nerfed the dmg outputs on both Noxian Diplomacy & Shadow Assault.
I hate Riot now.. Why would they do this to such a perfect champion? How about they nerf that ***** Vi or any of the other newcomers who are basically Gods in the game?
Anw, perfect guide. +1 of course :) but now it needs the dreaded "Nerfed" update.
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Limpy | January 15, 2013 8:26pm
Hey Vapora, I have to say this guide helped me to become one of the best talons out there, and I've never lost to one either. The fact that you went through every small thing about talon made it clear on how to play and build him. Thanks and I hope we can 1v1 or something in the future :).

Btw, incoming talon nerf ;c
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Rage Alc (1) | January 15, 2013 2:54am

I go E Q W Hydra R. Hydra should finish at about the same time that W comes back to you, then you R.

If it helps, I put Hydra on item slot 4 and have that slot on smartcast, same as my other spells.

If you're still having trouble, then you can just keep building the 2nd BT, it doesn't make too much of a difference. If they're dead they're dead, what does it matter what the total burst damage was? :P


I guess that's why when I did remember to use it, I didn't see much of a difference. I kept using it before I go in for my burst. I'll definitely stick to dual BT's in normal games til I get the hang of it.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 14, 2013 11:45pm
I go E Q W Hydra R. Hydra should finish at about the same time that W comes back to you, then you R.

If it helps, I put Hydra on item slot 4 and have that slot on smartcast, same as my other spells.

If you're still having trouble, then you can just keep building the 2nd BT, it doesn't make too much of a difference. If they're dead they're dead, what does it matter what the total burst damage was? :P
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Rage Alc (1) | January 14, 2013 5:39pm
That was what I intended. ^^ It's thanks to you that I could be bothered to finish up the update, you might be pleased to hear. It had been like 2 weeks before then that I'd sat down and worked some more on my update, I couldn't be bothered to finish up what little it had left after that. Then you made me realize I still listed Youmuu's as viable in the current version, and I couldn't change that without publishing my whole list of changes, l0l. Was forced to finish the update so I could edit that out. :P


LOL Glad I could help then. Just got out of a game, and while I had a rough start and semi-rough mid game, everything just came together perfectly towards the end once I had a full build. Got ganked 9 times but paid all that back I little more than two-fold in the end. I do need some advice using Hydra though. I found myself buying it in my previous game, but because I keep forgetting to use the active I found myself switching back to using a 2nd BT mid late game. Can I get some tips in using it like when exactly do you active the skill, etc? Just need to hammer the info in my head so I'll remember next time I manage to build it.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 14, 2013 10:34am
Yup, playing against GMD's Kassadin as Talon was like playing against Yorick as... well, anyone. Except it was worse, at least I sometimes win against Yorick, if I ran 100 re-matches vs GMD I know I'd lose them all.

Quoted:
Aside from that, updates definitely were a great help.

That was what I intended. ^^ It's thanks to you that I could be bothered to finish up the update, you might be pleased to hear. It had been like 2 weeks before then that I'd sat down and worked some more on my update, I couldn't be bothered to finish up what little it had left after that. Then you made me realize I still listed Youmuu's as viable in the current version, and I couldn't change that without publishing my whole list of changes, l0l. Was forced to finish the update so I could edit that out. :P
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Rage Alc (1) | January 14, 2013 9:47am
I actually tried using the GMD Kassadin for fun. Probably didn't play it as well as I should but I can definitely see why it would be a pain to fight against using Talon if it was a better player using that build. She built a monster alright...OTL

Aside from that, updates definitely were a great help.
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SirAeros (7) | January 14, 2013 8:04am
I loled so F****** hard on the GMD Kassadin Match up Description

well if that conforts you I have to deal with Kassadins like that all the time(well even worser on Season 2 actually back there RoA-into FH was his core and RoA was skippable...) on Dom and its sad >>
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 14, 2013 7:36am
Ffffffff. ArPen marks, not flat AD. Don't know what I was thinking when I was making the cheat-sheet.

I've fixed the cheat-sheet, but I'm aware the "picture" in my runes chapter is still wrong, but I don't seem to be able to fix it. I'll screen-shot my rune page in-game when I have time.
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Rage Alc (1) | January 13, 2013 4:03pm
Read the new guide, but I did notice something that might need fixing. Mark of AD or Mark of ArPen? You have AD up in the cheat sheet and the picture of it in the Rune guide but you talk about ArPen rather than AD.

EDIT: Just tried building the 'Holy Trinity' first instead of two Bloodthirsters at the start. I swear making those three were so worth it.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 13, 2013 5:30am
spone99 wrote:

Before Talon, I was the kind of player who never had a main, played many champs at the same time, but was never AMAZING with one. Then i came across talon, and thought, "wow this guy is really cool". I tried him out and instantly did horrible, I didn't like his playstyle. Then i read your guide, and was inspired to play him. A week and a half later, I've found a main, just got my first talon Penta Kill. UPVOTE!

Thanks and gj! :)
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 13, 2013 5:29am
Season 3 Over-haul released.
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spone99 | January 13, 2013 1:10am
Before Talon, I was the kind of player who never had a main, played many champs at the same time, but was never AMAZING with one. Then i came across talon, and thought, "wow this guy is really cool". I tried him out and instantly did horrible, I didn't like his playstyle. Then i read your guide, and was inspired to play him. A week and a half later, I've found a main, just got my first talon Penta Kill. UPVOTE!
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GrandmasterD (503) | January 12, 2013 4:11am


I'm not ignoring my 99% win ratio vs Kassadin just because your abomination is keeping it from being 100%. T_T

Your Kassadin isn't really the standard way to build him. Effective, definitely, but not very well known. A standard Kassadin loses to Talon 100% of the time. I suppose I could link to your guide and say "STAY THE **** AWAY FROM THIS" though.


hehehe
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 12, 2013 4:10am
Rage Alc wrote:



Guess that means I've been doing it kinda right all along. I do look forward to seeing your edits up once it does though. The guide you made really is a great help to all Talon players out there.

Well I think I've barely got anything left to do, I'll probably finish the update today.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 12, 2013 4:06am

Kassadin still rated as easy, I am disappoint.

I'm not ignoring my 99% win ratio vs Kassadin just because your abomination is keeping it from being 100%. T_T

Your Kassadin isn't really the standard way to build him. Effective, definitely, but not very well known. A standard Kassadin loses to Talon 100% of the time. I suppose I could link to your guide and say "STAY THE **** AWAY FROM THIS" though.
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GrandmasterD (503) | January 12, 2013 2:17am
Kassadin still rated as easy, I am disappoint.
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Rage Alc (1) | January 12, 2013 2:11am
Dear lord, my guide is more out-dated than I thought if you get the impression I recommend Youumuu's Ghostblade.

Youumuu's Ghostblade is a horrible item, and I decided that AAAAGES ago. I need to hurry the **** up with this season 3 update. :@ Thankfully it's nearly done.

Yes, it's Black Cleaver, not Youumuu's. For now, refer to the cheat sheet and any explanations provided there. Any information in my guide contradicting my cheat sheet is out-dated, the cheat sheet was the only thing I could instantly update right away.


Guess that means I've been doing it kinda right all along. I do look forward to seeing your edits up once it does though. The guide you made really is a great help to all Talon players out there.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 11, 2013 12:27pm
Rage Alc wrote:

Talon was one of the first characters I decided to buy when I started playing this game, and for a long while I just built him up using whatever was on the recommended list in the shop while building mostly on Noxian Diplomacy and Cutthroat and leaving Rake for last. Your guide really opened my eyes though, and from barely managing 10 kills in a single game, I managed to score above 15 to as much as 30 kills ever since following your guide. I'm still practicing with the character, but I do have to say it's thanks to your guide that I've been able to improve my game so much.

Just a question though, in the guide itself it seems like you kinda favor building The Brutalizer into Youmuu's Ghostblade though I've read in some comments here that you also use The Black Cleaver. I was just wondering which of the two might be more preferred/practical to build or which of the two might be more advisable to build given certain situations? So far I've been choosing Black Cleaver over the other (my builds usually end with 2-3 Bloodthirsters, Mercury Boots, Black Cleaver and Last Whisper) but I wanted to see what your opinion was on the matter.

Dear lord, my guide is more out-dated than I thought if you get the impression I recommend Youumuu's Ghostblade.

Youumuu's Ghostblade is a horrible item, and I decided that AAAAGES ago. I need to hurry the **** up with this season 3 update. :@ Thankfully it's nearly done.

Yes, it's Black Cleaver, not Youumuu's. For now, refer to the cheat sheet and any explanations provided there. Any information in my guide contradicting my cheat sheet is out-dated, the cheat sheet was the only thing I could instantly update right away.
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Proteoric | January 11, 2013 12:16pm
Best Talon guide availiable, very good job thanks to this guide ive climbed 400 elo with Talon,once again,thank you.
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Rage Alc (1) | January 9, 2013 2:36pm
Talon was one of the first characters I decided to buy when I started playing this game, and for a long while I just built him up using whatever was on the recommended list in the shop while building mostly on Noxian Diplomacy and Cutthroat and leaving Rake for last. Your guide really opened my eyes though, and from barely managing 10 kills in a single game, I managed to score above 15 to as much as 30 kills ever since following your guide. I'm still practicing with the character, but I do have to say it's thanks to your guide that I've been able to improve my game so much.

Just a question though, in the guide itself it seems like you kinda favor building The Brutalizer into Youmuu's Ghostblade though I've read in some comments here that you also use The Black Cleaver. I was just wondering which of the two might be more preferred/practical to build or which of the two might be more advisable to build given certain situations? So far I've been choosing Black Cleaver over the other (my builds usually end with 2-3 Bloodthirsters, Mercury Boots, Black Cleaver and Last Whisper) but I wanted to see what your opinion was on the matter.
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F0ND | January 8, 2013 12:31pm


Thanks, and gj! But your build is slightly out-dated. :P Season 3 stronk man!


I recently made the mistake of picking Talon into Fiddlesticks. The lane isn't actually as easy as one might think. If your burst doesn't 1-shot him you've already lost pretty much. What you can TRY and do if your burst doesn't 1-shot him, is to E Q R him, get as far away as you can while still in W range, W, and walk away from him before he fears you. A smart Fiddle would heal up on a minion here, but if he doesn't, your 2nd burst should kill him.

LOL
Well ****, I could be doing so much better then. What should I be building? Last time I looked at your guide is when I was using this lol.
EDIT: I read your item build and its all there lawl, nevermind.
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SirAeros (7) | January 8, 2013 12:18pm
How do you Feel About the Talon Nerfs on PBE I mean I'm really sad since I kinda saw them coming since him doing well and we all know what hapens if an Assassin is doing well they are Assassinated themselfs through nerfs >> I mean I liked actually seeing him being picked by not simply the 1% of the general population that mained him As they nerfed both his Bases and his Ratio not sure if the bug fix is enough to justify the ratio nerfs since late game he was an assassin and ***sassins can mostly kill just a target and back off the base ones were fine now a BC or LW Rush isn't as much effectively

Also apparently Talon beated Viktor in bugs that never got fix'd apparently his E was bugged and never amplyfied dmg at all(only seemed to) since his realese which means we played a champion with
3,5 Abilities Praticaly No Passive outside of early laning which had only three Items in most of the games and still Carried Games Like Bosses *Put Sunglasses*Guess we are badasses
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 8, 2013 9:25am

Well yea, if my team can live I'm fine, my problem was they were getting melted, like literally I was left alone with 3 enemies after I bursted the carry. XD

Oh, haha, well what did you expect me to say then, "if you press so-and-so button, you instantly win the team-fight"? :P

All I can say is try and roam more early-on and force fights at dragon if you know you can win, or just tell your team to dragon whenever you realize you can dragon but no one on your team realized. If you gank bot and both the enemy bot laners die, dragon > bot tower.

That way your team develops an advantage over theirs and they hopefully should be stronger than theirs in team-fights.
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 8, 2013 9:20am
F0ND wrote:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5116/talonpentakill.png
image too large for forum, use link
Anyone who says this build is not for talon is sorely mistaken. Made this account to vote and post +1

Thanks, and gj! But your build is slightly out-dated. :P Season 3 stronk man!

ramai wrote:
I have some troubles in early game when I am mid laning against fiddlesticks. The enemy just refused to attack me so I started the burst but when I jump on him and silence him, he waits and use fear and life drain so I couldn't react and finish dying... Any tips about how to deal on those cases?

I recently made the mistake of picking Talon into Fiddlesticks. The lane isn't actually as easy as one might think. If your burst doesn't 1-shot him you've already lost pretty much. What you can TRY and do if your burst doesn't 1-shot him, is to E Q R him, get as far away as you can while still in W range, W, and walk away from him before he fears you. A smart Fiddle would heal up on a minion here, but if he doesn't, your 2nd burst should kill him.
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OTGBionicArm (410) | January 8, 2013 8:39am
Well yea, if my team can live I'm fine, my problem was they were getting melted, like literally I was left alone with 3 enemies after I bursted the carry. XD
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Vapora Dark (420) | January 8, 2013 8:33am

I feel like I have a dilemma with Talon. I have yet to be negative with him (I've been mega fed every time I've played him in S3).

However, I feel like he's kinda... not very helpful to his team after he kills a single person.

A lot of the time I feel like I'm doing awesome and I kill a carry and manage to get out without dying, only for my team to die to the rest of theirs, leaving me to run away from them (Of course I get away, because I'm Talon.)

I lost a game today for exactly that reason. :[

What do I do about this?

Well, the objective is to burst an enemy carry ( preferably the AD carry, they do way more damage to your team than an AP carry usually ), and your role doesn't usually extend past that. Personally, I've had no problem carrying with Talon because Shadow Assault actually deals massive AoE damage, more than you might think. Coupled with applying 2 black cleaver stacks to your presumably all AD team, and you're actually pretty useful to your team. Also continue to Rake as many enemies as you can whenever possible, to do some moar damage and apply some moar cleaver stacks. Jump in and execute an enemy whenever you think it won't get you killed, up to personal judgement.

In short, your role is to assassinate their highest damage out-put, but you're not as useless as an assassin who solely damages 1 target and leaves the fight to the rest of your team wishing them good luck. Your AoE is pretty big, you can still harass with Rake, and your combo will hurt other enemies quite a bit when you think you can use it without getting the **** focused out of you, even more so in season 3 with the changes to ArPen and the new items. If you still lose team-fights, you're just very unlucky when getting matched with teams, as Talon has the highest win ratio in season 3, so he's by far impossible to carry with.

Oh, and if after the main team-fight is over, their team usually has 2-3 bruisers / tanks left, that is when you should buy Trinity Force. DPS will help you deal with them.
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ramai | January 8, 2013 6:44am
I have some troubles in early game when I am mid laning against fiddlesticks. The enemy just refused to attack me so I started the burst but when I jump on him and silence him, he waits and use fear and life drain so I couldn't react and finish dying... Any tips about how to deal on those cases?
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F0ND | January 7, 2013 4:12pm
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5116/talonpentakill.png
image too large for forum, use link
Anyone who says this build is not for talon is sorely mistaken. Made this account to vote and post +1
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andetron123 | January 6, 2013 11:02am
alright thanks alot :D
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OTGBionicArm (410) | January 5, 2013 8:43pm
I feel like I have a dilemma with Talon. I have yet to be negative with him (I've been mega fed every time I've played him in S3).

However, I feel like he's kinda... not very helpful to his team after he kills a single person.

A lot of the time I feel like I'm doing awesome and I kill a carry and manage to get out without dying, only for my team to die to the rest of theirs, leaving me to run away from them (Of course I get away, because I'm Talon.)

I lost a game today for exactly that reason. :[

What do I do about this?