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Veigar Build Guide by europeanorigin

AP Carry [Veigar] You deny the darkness in your soul !

AP Carry [Veigar] You deny the darkness in your soul !

Updated on December 12, 2012
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League of Legends Build Guide Author europeanorigin Build Guide By europeanorigin 39 5 287,064 Views 20 Comments
39 5 287,064 Views 20 Comments League of Legends Build Guide Author europeanorigin Veigar Build Guide By europeanorigin Updated on December 12, 2012
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1
Odin Prime | May 24, 2013 2:55pm
Downvoted because guide is fairly out of date at this point, guide still says Lich Bane gives MR which it hasn't for a long time now. I also dislike a lot of the meaningless fluff added into the guide like the Q&A:

Another quick Q&A :
How do you do damage against champions ?
You hit them of course!


How do you hit them ?
With any spell you have!
1
morik (1) | December 14, 2012 2:52pm
Hi europeanorigin:

Interesting guide, I will give it a shot.

I have a question about the first section: your "offensive build"--do you sell the chalice to make room?

One other thing: Your skill order at the top is different from what you describe below.
Is this a S3 change? Why now leveling Q first?
1
europeanorigin (7) | November 17, 2012 2:29pm
Hi sevusken !
First of all, thank you for your feedback ! Yes, you are perfectly right about lucky pick: you can take it early, if you are not confident enough in your ability to farm, or if you're having a tough lane.

To answer your question :

Archangel's staff is a broken item on veigar, it brings a tremendous amount of AP and an almost never ending mana pool. So this item is great on veigar, but the true problem is that it delays the build too much. It's not about the price of the item, not at all. No, the issue with this item is how it is built.

Archangel's staff builds from Tear of the Goddess, which needs to be built very quickly in order to be fully efficient as soon as possible. And that's where the problem is... At the beginning, Tear of the Goddess brings little mana regeneration and little mana, for about the same cost than Chalice of Harmony.

The thing is Veigar doesn't really need mana, he prefers mana regeneration (because of his passive ability), and therefore Tear of the Goddess only brings one interesting stat for Veigar, and not even in a good amount. On the other hand, Chalice of Harmony brings much more mana regeneration and Magic resist ! So in the beginning, it is much more interesting to start with Chalice. You could argue that it's an investment for late game, but the thing is that Veigar's late game is always good, no matter what happens. The real difficulty is to get to the late game, and for that you need a safe early game. Therefore I believe Chalice of Harmony to be a stronger pick than Tear of the Goddess as first "major item".

Another point in favor Athene's Unholy Grail is the way the item is built : It's a bunch of small items, which means you can always buy or upgrade some part of it. This means you'll always have this little item more than your opponent and thus a tiny advantage in comparison to him keeping his 800 gold to get his blasting wand or whatever. It's a small advantage but it makes your early game a bit more consistent and less reliant on you not being harassed for ages. On the other hand Archangel's staff is decomposed into a Tear of the goddess (about 900) a blasting wand (about 900) and a recipe (about 900). This can be an issue if you have a hard time farming because a lane bully. Indeed, when being bullied, you'll have to base often, thus losing farm and xp, and buying pots. With base cost so high, you can fall behind quickly, as your opponent gets more gold and xp than you, and therefore you may not be able to get back into the game before it is too late. with its small items costs, athene's allows bullied veigars to come back into lane with this tiny bit of additional advantage to level the field a bit.

This why, in my opinion, Athene's is a stronger/safer pick than Archangel's staff (same goes for ToG and Chalice). ToG just puts you behind in terms of safety while not providing you any additional damage, providing you with nothing but a poor mana regeneration.

It does makes veigar's spells spammable but only in late game, keep that in mind. (well it also works in early with a blue buff, but it always works with a blue buff ^^)
1
sevusken | November 17, 2012 1:35am
Hey i just read your guide and i can say that it is really different and i am using some parts of it, like early athene but not earlier than my lucky pick because i am not a really good farmer and i need the gold bonus. I also really liked taking teleport instead of ignite. I got a question for you. Could you write why didn' t you take archangel's staff? I think it is a really good item for Veigar since he is a nuker and the mana regen of staff makes all of Veigar' s spells spammable and i think it is good.
1
europeanorigin (7) | November 15, 2012 3:41am
Hi Kulkaktus !
Thanks a lot for your feedback !
It's always pleasing to see people testing a guide and liking it :)
1
kulkaktus | November 14, 2012 10:21am
Hi, just wanted to pop by and say, great guide! I've veigar a lot, though i used to play a lot different (namely the top guide on moba :P). Only done a couple of games following this guide with my secondary account so far, so no runes yet... but i must say that running athene's early is working wonderful, especially after the DFG nerf. No more mana problems, wohooo! (well almost).
Working good so far!
1
Zekwy | October 18, 2012 6:53pm
I ironically used the same items and masteries myself before I looked up your guide, he is pretty fun to play with and I plan on using it for my rune selection so thank you :D.
1
europeanorigin (7) | October 16, 2012 10:51am
Hi 131111525 !

Thank you for the feedback ! It is very pleasant to hear from people not actually conviced, but willing to understand.

You did hit the most difficult thing to defend about this build : its output damage before magic resists applies. And you are absolutely correct about your damage output of 1600 for DFG+2DR at lvl 13, without farm (But in the next patch it will be 1500, see edit). I'll try to provide you with the same accuracy in my answer :

You deal about 1300 damage. :(



Wow, that's a lot less. The damage output (before MR applies) is significantly lower than the one of DFG. It's fairly logical, as there is no part of Athene's Unholy Grail that can match the active of Deathfire Grasp.

However, not taking into account MR is dangerous, for it makes you think you deal a lot more damage than what you will actually do. Therefore I recommend you to consider what I am about to say (not to agree with it ^^).

At level 13, with a little farm from Baleful Strike and versus somebody who HAS NOT taken MR items like Chalice of Harmony (which is becoming more and more popular) :
  • you'll deal approximately 1700 - 1800 damage with the DFG build. (1600-1700 after next patch)
  • you'll deal approximately 1500 damage with the AUG build.

At level 13, with a little farm from Baleful Strike and versus somebody who HAS taken MR items like Chalice of Harmony/ Athene's Unholy Grail :
  • you'll deal approximately 1300 damage with the DFG build. (1200 after next patch)
  • you'll deal approximately 1000 damage with the AUG build.

In any case the damage output (after magic resist) is clearly higher with the DFG strategy. But you have to match it up to the HP of your opponent! In this case, at level 13, your opponent (AP/AD carries) would have about 1500 HP (can be quite less, or slightly more).

Therefore in the first case (No MR items), you will kill your opponent in any case (it's a bit more clutch for the AUG strat, but a slightly wounded opponent will definitely die), and in the second case, he doesn't die in both strategies !

Now, in reality, this means that DFG doesn't bring anything to the table in comparison to AUG against the AD carries (which always take a bit of damage), or against an AP carry with no MR items. On the other hand, if the enemy AP carry has taken some MR, DFG active matters and means a neat difference in damage output, which can lead to the kill if you cast ignite in addition.
Therefore, against AP carry with early magic resist, it makes a difference, at level 13.

Another point, a bit of topic, but that you shouldn't forget about : AUG makes you a lot more tanky against AP casters. Don't forget that if you fail to kill with the combo, people will have a dangerous window of 4 to 10 seconds to destroy you. Therefore what you do most of the time against the AP carry, in early-mid game, is to launch a combo minus the ult, wait more than 10 seconds and then cast the combo with the ult. So you have to be capable of handling damage meanwhile, which is where the MR kicks in and does wonders. This strategy also makes DFG active not necessary for the kill as it was thought before.



So to sum up, AUG gives you a permanent blue buff, more tankiness and while it does less damage than DFG, it does not harm the damage output.


P.S. : Another pro of AUG is the fact that you get 10% CDR earlier than with DFG, which makes Baleful Strike more efficient. And it cost a bit less than DFG+2DR :) (600 gold). And you don't rely on Blue.

P.P.S : I know it is only for measuring purpose, but only AUG and Boots at level 13 is a quite unsuccesful veigar. You need the XP of 228 creeps to reach level 13. It takes 18 minutes for these creeps to spawn. So you'd need to farm 148 creeps, which makes it an awful ratio of 65% of cs.
Therefore you can safely assume you'll have AUG before hitting level 13. (XP from kills almost compensates the XP loss from leaving the lane and the XP gain from the death of 20 minions, which would also yield 300 Gold, but I didn't include it into the calculation -> too many variables to account for ^^). But DFG+2DR and boots makes sense for a level 13 ^^ (80% accuracy on cs).

EDIT :
DFG is currently being reworked and the active will be nerfed to 15% base damage and 5% per 100 AP. This is a huge nerf !
1
131111525 (4) | October 15, 2012 12:48pm
Wow when i first saw this i was like: "what diabolical trollery is this!?"
but then i read through the guide and im not even sure...

I don't think ill just believe you just yet because this is so different to the way i play veigar:
21/0/9
boots pots> dorans x2 > better boots > DFG > deathcap > more stuff i cant ever decide on :/

Now for the points:

When i did MATH on veigar i got that he could do 1600 damage with his combo at level 13 with dfg and NO FARM on his Q. (not accounting for some masteries and magic resist)

which is more than replacing dfg with deathcap is. this led me to wonder: how much damage could you do with your build? could you please tell me his combo at level 13 with no farms on his Q and your items? (you don't have to do this - a simple no will keep me just as happy)

i also played with your build a little and quite liked it but im not sure until i do MATH on it to discover the real benefits of it and whether its good or not

even if i dont agree with it its still a nice guide and has some good logic behind it - making me ponder my own playing style - good job!
1
perukas (1) | October 7, 2012 5:19am
Nice guide, will try it right now
1
europeanorigin (7) | September 12, 2012 1:34pm
Thanks for the feedback pepsiM4A1!

I'll do that right now!
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