Update: Normalized scores, vote changing, vote...

[quote=FlashJ][quote=Alahric] [quote=FlashJ] How DO they get the caramel inside the caramilk bar? :) [/quote]I could tell you but then the bar manufacturers would be after YOU TOO !! [url]http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mt-edward/cadbury.htm[/url] ...read at your own risk... [/quote] :( you killed the mystery. my purpose for living, gone... :P[/quote]

[quote=Alahric][quote=FlashJ] [quote=Alahric] [quote=FlashJ] How DO they get the caramel inside the caramilk bar? :) [/quote]I could tell you but then the bar manufacturers would be after YOU TOO !! [url]http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mt-edward/cadbury.htm[/url] ...read at your own risk... [/quote] :( you killed the mystery. my purpose for living, gone... :P [/quote]Curiosity killed the cat ^ ^, PS: why double post, edit??? Get the point Dewo?[/quote]

[quote=Alahric][quote=FlashJ] I do hope everyone knows we are hearing the complaints about the no comment negative voting and have discussed it at length. However this presents some unique challenges to overcome. [color=red]No shit, Sherlock :P[/color] For one, simply by forcing the comment we are strongly discouraging negative votes while not equally discouraging positive votes. This will mean far less negative votes but then what does that do to the scores of all the builds? We are now back to the popularity contest rating as whoever has the most positive votes wins (since negative votes will be sooo few). So again the older established guides stay on top regardless of quality while younger upcoming builds have no chance to catch them in pure number of votes. [color=red]Discourage? For me no, for trolls? Indeed, I mean if someone were to negative vote they need a reason why! If you don't have the balls to back that up, then don't do it. For normal people this could be an issue, but for the authors this would help them improve their guide and give them what they deserve.[/color] Also, as most authors are aware, for the most part votes are hard to come by on the site, discouraging voting will amplify this problem. We want to find ways to encourage more voting, not less. [color=red]Hmmm, getting more people to vote? I guess you could fix that by allowing us to spesify our votes, I'm just saying.[/color] We have yet to find a site that implements any kind of forced comment on down vote, examples like youtube don't force comments and their system works pretty good. [color=red]Comparing youtube with MOBAfire? First of all hate "thumbs down" is less convinient, mostly because nobody cares about competition and stuff like that. MOBAfire mostly consist of guide-makers themselves, I mean we have 2000 guests online who probably doesn't vote! It would be interesting if they could.[/color] We have tossed this one around and around just like the score and have been unable to find a solution we are more happy with than what we have now. With the new formula our hope is a few negative votes won't hurt your score to nearly the same degree as it used to. [color=red]I partually disagree, negative votes now only leaves impurity now... But I still like the system better.[/color] If anyone comes up with a unique way to make this work we are happy to listen and implement. But for now, a simple forced comment to negative vote will have an over all negative effect on the site as a whole, scoring and rating quality. [color=red]Why don't you just give every guide a feedback folder? This way only the author can view it, even lable them as anonymous if they don't have the stones for it. Just make them review it, doesn't have to be negative or even possitive. If it's spam or bullshit then one should be able to report it.[/color] FlashJ [color=red]Alahric[/color] ps: I don't want this to sound like the option is off the table, its not. I just want everyone to understand why we haven't jumped on this. Its more complex than it seems on the surface. [/quote]Something has to be done, that's for sure![/quote]

[quote=Dirty Goolash][quote=Alahric] [quote=DEWO] Use Edit option :) dont double post :PPP Well it is a change to the rating system not the negative votes system Alahric. After the change my Trynda Guide was 6/6 and had 100%, it is at 73% atm. Negative votes will still happen. But i had my 1st succes. Som1 DID COMMENT his -1 vote (on my Jungle WW guide). The explanation was crap imho (mainly said that ppl that use this guide sucks when he plays with them.) but still... [/quote]The posts are unrelated, I just didn't feel like it. Anyway, [u]all of my guides from the night between 4th and 5th August got heavily downrated![/u] This isn't just -1 to a few guides, this was at a large scale I mean 3% on my Annie Guide is alot! You need more than 4 votes to do that. [u]I wouldn't be suspicious if this happened gradually, but this seems to be more like hate negative votes which didn't really have anything to do with the guides.[/u] That's [b]the[/b] real issue. Mobafire users seems to be just spewing jealousy at competators, that's what happened to your Tryndamere guide. The truth is that if they were to list reasons for negavite voting, they wouldn't actually find a single good arguement for it.. [u]so in the end nobody but spammers deserve -1.[/u] So if we fix this issue which we have to, then we are back at where popularity declears the best guide which is unfair for new users. [u]This is why 5-stars rating,[/u] on everything like: Buildsetup, writing, layout etc, eould be more appropriate. [u]This way everyone who sees a guide will be encouraged to vote aswell.[/u] I suggest enforced comments with listed reasons for negative voting or a feedback folder for a guide, if these are all false or unvalid one should be able to report it. [b]Is it still unrelated?[/b] [i]Btw: Obvious troll is obvious, every god damn post you make DEWO..[/i] [/quote] Stop fighting! It's tearing us apart![/quote]

[quote=DEWO]OK, 1st of all we can't compare a site that offers a funny movies like YouTube and a site that users create something that is STRICTLY connected to the other things that ppl post. On youtube you dont give 2 shits about a movie getting more thumbs up than yours. Here, you do. When you want to have best of the best guides for particular champion you will have to face guides for the same champion. So you cant compare 2 movies getting diferent ranks that one shows a dog running around and a dog dancing to techno music. "For one, simply by forcing the comment we are strongly discouraging negative votes while not equally discouraging positive votes." Ok so we encourage trolls to downrate everything becouse they have a bad day? For me if you have even a slight thought about -1 something you have to have at least 1 reason by doing so. Even if it is "i dont like the colors in the text" or "i just wanted to downrank you coz i dont like you". Its not that we dont want to get the negatives, tbh i would be realy happy to get them BUT i would like to know why and this information would be way more usefull than getting another comment "this works i got 9000/0/0 with it". That is the point. To make the guides better. You could make the comments to negative totaly Annonymous that ppl will not fear to leave those comments and fear that this person could go and downrank their guide, just for a payback. About your Annie guide Alahric. For some time it was considered (and as i recall it still is) the best scored guide on this site. Best guide = most views = most trolls :P [quote]Btw: Obvious troll is obvious, every god damn post you make DEWO..[/quote] eeee? PS. Limit on voting implemented?[/quote]

[quote=Shrillex]How about requiring a comment for both positive and negative votes? This way negative voting wouldnt be discourage and neither would positive. You could also have a list when voted would pop up and you could check off what you liked about it or what you didn't like and it would show as a comment. On the list if there wasn't an option the user would check on there would be the option "other" where the user can write what they felt was good or bad about the build.[/quote]

[quote=Alahric][b]@Dirty Goolash[/b] [i]I'm easily offended by the silliest means, if you don't get that then I feel sorry for you : / No.. but really if you imply that I'm "special" it gets on my nerves, or I had a bad day.. Either way :P[/i] Take a look at it, just take a look at the post you quoted! It explains our current situation, it has ideals for solutions, it explains why I said what I said. It had almost nothing to do with DEWO, the only thing I strictly bold underlined was the fact that he didn't take me seriously. The guy is a genious, but his "inner troll" got the better of him to see the real issue. Same happened with AnalSamurai! I was commenting on something he did, and he denied that.. I just couldn't let him get away with it, could I?. So as a response he flames my "intelligence" as to how insightful I was. Where after I explained the matter and thrived on the bittersweet irony. Did you see me flame him in any way? no.. he made it into a flame war, but I never really contributed to it. So please, if I can't discuss something while being poilite on one sided flaming, without having it being called "fighting" then there is something indeed fucked up about it. You could ask us to stop, but like I said.. I have an unexplainable urge to prove people wrong when it really is! I'd tear down the forums to do that, if you'd deny me commenting on it then you'd have a real flame war. The bottomline is, things aren't always what they seem. [b]@DEWO[/b] It was like, I'm. going. to. tell. you. this. slowly. cuz. you're. special. Alahric. :) Don't do that, I'm not retarded -> every god damn post addressed to me... it's annoying. Most of all you didn't take me seriously, it just seemed like a conspiracy which is why I explained everything with a bold underline. Now it wasn't like I thought you'd give a damn whether on not my guides got downrated or not. The real issue was this "conspiracy" phenomenon which is simply "MOBAfire Abuse". But since [color=red]FlashJ[/color] was kind enough to inform me and explain the matter, I think we can let this go. However, there was a time where this actually happened! Like you said DEWO, some people are afraid if the author will "return the favour". Ironically, I didn't even rate the guide where the author actually requested to know what was wrong with his guide. All I did was to tell him what was wrong, and he flamed me for saying all that... 40% of the content in the response was really all about how stupid I was, Yet a lot of other people -1'd it. [b]Ok so we got:[/b] 1. Authors QQ'ing about people -1'ing and not telling what's wrong with it. 2. People being afraid to give feedback because people might return the favour. 3. This "-1 overall conspiracy" Phenomenon which is "MOBAfire Abuse!". 4. Good guides getting -1 for no reason, comment section full of praises. 5. A lot of people who view guides are not voting! Community issues. [i]Those are the [u]main reasons[/u] I commented back in such a way... We need to fix those problems! I got solutions but I'm getting ignored by the admins.. PS: you "admins" don't even comment on it, it's like "uhh... moving on" : ([/i][/quote]

[quote=Alahric][quote=Shrillex] How about requiring a comment for both positive and negative votes? This way negative voting wouldnt be discourage and neither would positive. You could also have a list when voted would pop up and you could check off what you liked about it or what you didn't like and it would show as a comment. On the list if there wasn't an option the user would check on there would be the option "other" where the user can write what they felt was good or bad about the build. [/quote]FEEDBACK FOLDER! Let the comment section be the comment section: for questions, suggestions, etc. I think we should be civilized like that, why bother everyone with a simple comment? I doubt anyone would like 70-100 comments with "Win!" in them for +1. I'm just saying, a feedback folder would solve most of our problems. The question is wether or not the public can view it, and if people who contribute to it are anonymous.[/quote]

[quote=DEWO][quote]t was like, I'm. going. to. tell. you. this. slowly. cuz. you're. special. Alahric. :) Don't do that, I'm not retarded -> every god damn post addressed to me... it's annoying.[/quote] Oh... tbh i am either too dumb or something but I had absolutly no intesions of sounding that way. As you probably read some of my guides it is just a style i write. I think that XXX = XXX = XXX was taken as a "you are retard" offense. Again i had absolutly no intesion in offending you in that way. I just like to write stuff with equal signs and arrows " -> ". Tbh i have a huge respect for you and jour job, and you are the only person i accualy have on my friend list ingame from here. Sry i sounded offensive :/ PS. i liked the "inner troll" commet :P it gave me thoughts i think i will use on photoshopping one of my own photos soonish :P[/quote]

[quote=Alahric][b]@DEWO[/b] Nah, I overreacted.. I partually knew you were kidding, but you never did comment on the issue.. that's all.[/quote]