Best rune choices for maximizing physical dmg.

[quote=Searz]I would like to make it clear that the amount of AD you have is irrelevant when calculating whether crit chance/dmg beats armor pen, but for the sake of comparing all runes I will add numbers taken from my own builds. [color=red]Offensive quints and marks at level one. I use an estimated standard AD.[/color] [color=violet]Armor pen lvl1: 25armor pen, 0%crit, 52AD[/color] 20armor: 52 * (1-(0/100)) = 52 50armor: 52 * (1-(25/125)) = 41,6 [color=violet]Crit lvl1: 0armor pen, 13,95%crit and 52AD[/color] 20armor: (52 * 0,8605 + 52 * 2 * 0,1395) * (1-(20/120)) = 49,38 50armor: (52 * 0,8605 + 52 * 2 * 0,1395) * (1-(50/150)) = 39,5 [color=violet]AD lvl1: 0armor pen, 0%crit and 67,3AD[/color] 20armor: 67,3 * (1-(20/120)) = 56,08 50armor: 67,3 * (1-(50/150)) = 44,87 [color=green]AD > armor pen > crit > crit dmg at lvl1.[/color] AD is has a big advantage over everything else at level1, but it turns bad in lategame. ----- ----- Generic mid game crit build. CrC: 100AD, 36+14%CrC, 0ArP. 50armor: (100 * 0,5 + 100 * 2 * 0,5) * (1 - 50/150) = 100 average dmg 100armor: (100 * 0,5 + 100 * 2 * 0,5) * (1 - 100/200) = 75 average dmg ArP: 100AD, 36%CrC, 0+25ArP 50armor: (100 * 0,64 + 100 * 2 * 0,36) * (1 - 25/125) = 108,8 average dmg 100armor: (100 * 0,64 + 100 * 2 * 0,36) * (1 - 75/175) = 77,71 average dmg ----- ----- [color=red]No crit, high AD and [[Last Whisper]]. Offensive marks and quints.[/color] ArP: 40%|6+25ArP and 280AD 100armor: 280 * (1 - 41,4/141,4) = 197,96 200armor: 280 * (1 - 101,4/201,4) = 139,02 AD/lvl: 40%|6ArP and 280+35,37AD 100armor: 315,37 * (1 - 56,4/156,4) = 201,65 200armor: 315,37 * (1 - 116,4/216,4) = 145,7 ----- ----- [color=red]Low crit and moderate AD. Offensive marks and quints.[/color] (stats taken from my Olaf build example) [color=violet]Armor pen: 45armor pen, 20%crit and 214,3AD[/color] 50armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(5/105)) = 244,95 100armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(55/155)) = 160,87 200armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(155/255)) = 100,81 [color=violet]Crit: 20armor pen, 33,95%crit and 214,3AD[/color] 50armor: (214,3 * 0,6605 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,3395) * (1-(30/130)) = 220,75 100armor: (214,3 * 0,6605 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,3395) * (1-(80/180)) = 159,48 200armor: (214,3 * 0,6605 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,3395) * (1-(180/280)) = 102,48 [color=violet]Crit dmg: 20armor pen, 20%crit, 233,45%crit dmg and 214,3AD[/color] 50armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2,3345 * 0,2) * (1-(30/130)) = 208,78 100armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2,3345 * 0,2) * (1-(80/180)) = 150,83 200armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2,3345 * 0,2) * (1-(180/280)) = 96,92 [color=violet]AD: 20armor pen, 20%crit and 229,6AD[/color] 50armor: (229,6 * 0,8 + 229,6 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(30/130)) = 211,88 100armor: (229,6 * 0,8 + 229,6 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(80/180)) = 153,07 200armor: (229,6 * 0,8 + 229,6 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(180/280)) = 98,36 [color=green]Armor pen > crit > AD > crit dmg with low crit and moderate dmg.[/color] ----- ----- (forgot to add all masteries here, will do so when I feel like it. The stats won't change much but it may make a difference) [color=red]High crit, crit dmg and moderate AD. Offensive marks.[/color] (stats taken from my Ashe build example) With [[Last Whisper]]: [color=violet]Armor pen: 15|40%armor pen, 70%crit, 260%crit dmg and 237,164AD[/color] 50armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(21/121)) = 415,8 100armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(51/151)) = 333 200armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(111/211)) = 238,32 [color=violet]Crit: 0|40%armor pen, 78,37%crit, 260%crit dmg and 237,164AD[/color] 50armor: (237,164 * 0,2163 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7837) * (1-(30/130)) = 411,07 100armor: (237,164 * 0,2163 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7837) * (1-(60/160)) = 334,09 200armor: (237,164 * 0,2163 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7837) * (1-(120/220)) = 245,9 [color=violet]Crit dmg: 0|40%armor pen, 70%crit, 280,07%crit dmg and 237,164AD[/color] 50armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,8007 * 0,7) * (1-(30/130)) = 412,27 100armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,8007 * 0,7) * (1-(60/160)) = 335,07 200armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,8007 * 0,7) * (1-(120/220)) = 246,61 [color=violet]AD: 0|40%armor pen, 70%crit, 260%crit dmg and 245,714AD[/color] 50armor: (245,714 * 0,3 + 245,714 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(30/130)) = 400,58 100armor: (245,714 * 0,3 + 245,714 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(60/160)) = 325,57 200armor: (245,714 * 0,3 + 245,714 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(120/220)) = 236,78 [color=green]Crit dmg > crit > armor pen > AD with high crit [u]and[/u] [[Last Whisper]].[/color] ----- With [[Youmuu's Ghostblade]]: [color=violet]Armor pen: 35armor pen, 85%crit, 260%crit dmg and 257,164AD[/color] 50armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(15/115)) = 528 100armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(65/165)) = 367,8 200armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(165/265)) = 229,41 [color=violet]Crit: 20armor pen, 93,37%crit, 260%crit dmg and 257,164AD[/color] 50armor: (257,164 * 0,0663 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,9337) * (1-(30/130)) = 493,2 100armor: (257,164 * 0,0663 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,9337) * (1-(80/180)) = 356,3 200armor: (257,164 * 0,0663 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,9337) * (1-(180/280)) = 228,96 [color=violet]Crit dmg: 20armor pen, 85%crit, 280,07%crit dmg and 257,164AD[/color] 50armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,8007 * 0,85) * (1-(30/130)) = 500,45 100armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,8007 * 0,85) * (1-(80/180)) = 361,54 200armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,8007 * 0,85) * (1-(180/280)) = 232,33 [color=violet]AD: 20armor pen, 85%crit, 260%crit dmg and 265,714AD[/color] 50armor: (265,714 * 0,15 + 265,714 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(30/130)) = 482,23 100armor: (265,714 * 0,15 + 265,714 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(80/180)) = 348,38 200armor: (265,714 * 0,15 + 265,714 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(180/280)) = 223,87 [color=green]Armor pen > crit dmg > crit > AD with high crit.[/color] At about 170armor crit dmg deals more dmg than armor pen. ----- ----- [color=red]No crit, high damage and [[Last Whisper]].[/color] (stats taken from my Ezreal build) [color=violet]Armor pen: 21|40%armor pen and 279AD[/color] 50armor: 279 * (1-(17,4/117,4)) = 237,7 100armor: 279 * (1-(47,4/147,4)) = 189,16 200armor: 279 * (1-(107,4/207,4)) = 134,53 [color=violet]AD: 6|40%armor pen and 287,55AD[/color] 50armor: 287,55 * (1-(26,4/126,4)) = 227,48 100armor: 287,55 * (1-(56,4/156,4)) = 183,86 200armor: 287,55 * (1-(116,4/216,4)) = 132,88 ----- ----- [color=gold]Conclusion: Crit dmg is completely useless at level1 without crit boosting abilities. Even then it's worse than armor pen. If you get [[Last Whisper]] crit dmg will be a small bit better than armor pen, but only on ~90armor and up. AD is best at level1, but worst in lategame. Even with [[Last Whisper]] AD is worse than armor pen. AD per lvl is better than armor pen with [[Last Whisper]], but there's not a big difference and armor pen will outshine AD/lvl by a big margin before [[Last Whisper]]. If you wanna maximize your lvl1 damage you should get 11-15 total armor pen and put AD in the rest of your mark and quint slots. Get the armor pen runes in marks, flat AD gives a bigger bonus in quints. Armor pen is second best at level1 and best in almost all cases in lategame.[/color] ----- ----- I'm planning on making graphs for the calculations. I don't know when I'll have time to do them. I will make graphs for AP vs magic pen too, so I'll probably start another thread for all the graphs.[/quote]

[quote=Oberron]You have it right. Even if your char has 100% chance to crit, ALL of that damage is affected by armor pen. Armor pen > Crit dmg in virtually every senario.[/quote]

[quote=drastiK]just buy crit dmg runes, critical chance is easily obtained through items. add that with the armor reducing axe and you're golden[/quote]

[quote=Oberron][quote=drastiK] just buy crit dmg runes, critical chance is easily obtained through items. add that with the armor reducing axe and you're golden [/quote] You're missing the point drastiK, his math is there to prove the point of which is better between crit chance, crit dmg, and ArPen. Crit dmg runes are right above wasted IP. ArPen and Crit chance give you vastly superior bang for your buck. The question was never "which one can you not get through items." The question was, "which of these makes my character stronger in the long run?"[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]he joined a few days ago and has 3 posts. yeah safe to assume he's ignorable.[/quote]

[quote=Scrax]Thats not nice of you, caucheka. You had three posts as well once, and you're not ignorable now, are you? Post count doesn't make the man (or player).[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Nah, I think he's right. Someone who just states something like that without knowing the facts should simply be ignored. It's not like he asked a question. If he did I'd answer.[/quote]

[quote=Scrax]When you put it like that I can agree. But he only said it based on his post count and join date, which is totally irrelevant. My point was it was unfair to say that.[/quote]

[quote=Aeneas#18774]What I want to know: Is Armor Pen still > Crit Chance when you're playing with gangplank? And is there an ok secondary rune for armor pen/crit chance?[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Aeneas] Is Armor Pen still > Crit Chance when you're playing with gangplank? And is there an ok secondary rune for armor pen/crit chance?[/quote] Armor pen is definetly better unless you get [[Last Whisper]]. No matter who you play as. I consider the secondary crit runes to be really crappy(there are no secondary armor pen runes). I'd recommend getting something primary instead. Check the "Physical dmg" section in "Recommended runes" in my rune tips guide.[/quote]