Last Whisper

[quote=Flubadoo][quote=Jet] searz fuck off with your graphs lw is better, [b]end of discussion[/b] if TBC was better, you'd think high elo would use it on vayne, a champion that ONLY USES AUTO ATTACKS to deal damage (condemn is single target positioning skill, don't count that) and guess what? all high elo players build LW on her nameless_bard, you have no opinion, you can't even build sivir remotely decent [/quote] I actually see most people in the Dreamhack Qualifiers use BC on Vayne. Also, at some point, I'm pretty sure that Ashe hits harder with autoattacks than volleys, so you only use it for the slow, not damage. It also helps your whole team.[/quote]

[quote=NeoHarri]As a quick comparison, took the top 10 vet rec guides (single champ) from moba guide (this ignores the attack speed), have added minor notes on each; #1 Twitch - 98 Armour - BFC wins (squishy, and can run/stealth, BFC's AS helps) #2 Morde - 203 Armour - BFC wins (despite clear win for LW pene wise, the attack speed and the fact you should have other team-mates around, would mean BFC's win) #3 Shaco - 189 Armour - LW wins (due to his quickness at disappearing, a single quick nuke is generally needed, as opposed to several AA's) #4 Janna - 107 Armour - BFC wins (small win pene-wise, but the AS will push it further in the lead) #5 Udyr - 216 Armour - BFC wins (not many carries would like to meet this guy alone, meaning you'll be taking backup, so unless your the only AD, BFC wins from the stacks sticking) #6 Cho'Gath - 171 Armour - BFC wins (not many carries would like to meet this guy alone either, meaning you'll be taking backup, so unless your the only AD, BFC wins from the stacks sticking) #7 Trundle - 168 Armour - LW wins (not played against very many trundles at all, so no comment) #8 Ashe - 70 Armour - BFC wins (if your in AA range against Ashe with her Ult down, you want to make sure she dies before it gets back up, BFC highly recommended) #9 Nidalee - 100 Armour - BFC wins (just a win by BFC, but the AS helps, as always) #10 Kog'Maw - 98 Armour - BFC wins (as above) Although some characters usage can be situational, I'd rather play LW on Urgot, to go with his chucky 20% from E as well.[/quote]

[quote=Dante Rebellion]#3 Shaco - 189 Armour - LW wins (due to his quickness at disappearing, a single quick nuke is generally needed, as opposed to several AA's) Stop smoking please, Shaco is so dependent on AA. TBC > LW on Shaco... TBC is also godly on renekton, it has such a great sync with his W[/quote]

[quote=Pwnzor1130]Well, I have made a surprising discovery. I tried to figure out the damage gained on a SINGLE autoattack comparing The Black Cleaver and Last Whisper. I assumed you had 31 armor penetration from runes and masteries. I also assumed, as an example, you were attacking a Jarvan that had 188 armor. What I found was surprising. With even ZERO stacks of The Black Cleaver's debuff it gave more damage to a single autoattack than Last Whisper. That's not even counting the AS bonus. Also, Caitlyn and Ashe rely heavily on Autoattacks. Even though they have skills that scale with AD, I would rather have The Black Cleaver for more Autoattack damage and the AS for Caitlyn's passive. Crits also scale harder with AD than they do with Armor Penetration.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]@Pwnzor1130 The math is done and a conclusion has been made. Please stop this. @Dante NO @Flubadoo NO @NeoHarri Wat da fuck are you on about? [[The Black Cleaver]]'s armor reduction is totally useless for Urgot.[/quote]

[quote=SryImBad]Y'all fail. Searz, do you agree it's champ dependent?[/quote]

[quote=Pieson]anybody who doesn't but armor and is able it be attacked by an AD carry is asking to be killed. LW is for when you play against people who are smart and buy armor, BC is for when they're bad and don't buy tons of armor.[/quote]

[quote=Dante Rebellion]Searz, what do you mean by NO? NO at Shaco with BC or Renekton with BC? Because BC is fuckin BEAAST on renekton, W and you got 3 stacks[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Dante Rebellion] Searz, what do you mean by NO? NO at Shaco with BC or Renekton with BC? Because BC is fuckin BEAAST on renekton, W and you got 3 stacks[/quote] No at everything, but I can't say for sure that it doesn't work on Renekton. I will however say that Ghostblade is probably the best choice since he has ONLY cooldowns and it gives CDR.[/quote]

[quote=Dante Rebellion]It does work. Black cleaver is epic on Renekton, psh, also Last whisper isnt that good on Shaco, whilst black cleaver is, since shaco has fast AA, and majority of the damage is from AA (assuming your AD jungling)[/quote]