Renekton, Lee Sin and Dodge runes

[quote=Lugignaf]I think we're getting a bit off-topic here... Honestly, I hate dodge seals. They're situational at best as they only dodge auto-attacks and armor is just far more versatile. Sure, to a certain degree, they're better against AA champs like Tryn, Yi, etc. but, I feel like it's too random to be truly effective.[/quote]

[quote=Ruin Sage][quote=Lugignaf] I think we're getting a bit off-topic here... Honestly, I hate dodge seals. They're situational at best as they only dodge auto-attacks and armor is just far more versatile. Sure, to a certain degree, they're better against AA champs like Tryn, Yi, etc. but, I feel like it's too random to be truly effective. [/quote] True, but if you play ranked, you know who you will be up against, so you can pick a page with or without dodge based on who the enemy is playing. That is the best way to go, really. But, it is also the most expensive way to go.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Yeah. If there's no AD carry (LoL Elo) then dodge aren't gonna be better period. Dodge really put in heavy duty work against auto attackers, like Ruin said. Common sense but it never hurts to say it plainly. Against Jarvan or Garen, that's a lot of phys dmg that you can't dodge, so in that respect Lugi is also correct about versatility. It depends a lot on the scenario. If I'm against a Vayne, I'm taking dodge yellows, there's no question, and I'll consider dodge quints to boot.[/quote]

[quote=Max Carter]we aren't running from the topic, it's about dodge runes, and champions... I felt skarner was pretty good, at least when I played... i was 7/6/16 something like this, tri-force, sunfire, GA, merc's and wit's end... Poor skarner D': So renekton is a better option for off-tank solo top? and for the all game? :/ Skarner Q is very good... gives a huge amount of bonus damage...[/quote]

[quote=Max Carter]Well, i realized by myself skarner isn't a good solo top... I aaaalmost lost to a cho gath, the problem was: the player has picked cho randomly --' So, i almost lost to a random champ '-' probably my English is terrible above hmm... so, I decided to buy [[renekton]], looked one of the best guides on the last 30 days, and saw: tri-force and atma's and warmogs, tanky itens, 2 ad itens, etc... but that build was only with CDR of runes... so i thought, DAM: renekton haves 8 seconds on Q, 10 seconds on W, 14 seconds on E and 120 seconds on R... HUGE cooldowns... how can I build him? I play with that huge cooldowns? if I buy ionian, i'll loose tenacity --' I'll be forced to get youmuu instead of a tanky item? or instead of tri-force? so, 3 games in a row with an enemy being [[jarvan IV]]: raping solo top, raping mid game, carrying late game, raping your mom, your nexus and your laser tower on the fountain, god dammit! "So jarvan is great, i'll learn him and play" - lower cd's, but still kinda high: Q 6 seconds, W 12 seconds, E 13 seconds, R 90 seconds... what should I do? play with these CD's or build Youmuu on both + CDR glyphs?[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]-this post is just to the OP- Dodge chance is good because the [[Nimbleness]] mastery is helpful in combat. 10% MS is a good bonus to have. According to our local math-whiz veteran Searz, you have high amounts of armor to make dodge viable. So, for a majority of the guides you read should only be considered viable if they're hitting a very high amount of armor - I personally think 160 is a good threshold. Also, having dodge masteries means you can viable purchase [[Ninja Tabi]] - Which has become more prevalent and useful (for anyone who disagrees) due to the high amount the physical damage based champions right now relative to one year ago when everything was more ability-focused. Dodge runes + Masteries + Ninja Tabi equate to [b][u]20.8% dodge[/u][/b] - Negating 20% of an enemy carry's damage output is AMAZING trait for an anti-carry or tank to have. (Although, I believe dodge comes with diminished returns) This increases in effectiveness if you're on a character with innate dodge such as [[Monkey's Agility]], [[Counter Strike]], or [[Fleet of Foot]][/quote]

[quote=Max Carter]Hm, but for a tank / anti carrier won't the tenacity gives a huge difference? :/ Why are my questions about the champions being ignored always? g.g[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]WE WANT TO DISCUSS DODGE D: Tenacity does make a huge difference. Riot still needs to make some tenacity items with legitimate stats on them so that a player can build something other than Merc treads realistically, the current ones they have even with 35 tenacity still generally aren't worth it. Moonflair spellblade is decent, Eleisa's can be situationally worth it. Cloak and Dagger imo is okay, but then once you get items, run out of gear, what do you do... You sell the tenacity item and dodge boots and buy merc treads and your last item, zzzz.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Max Carter] Hm, but for a tank / anti carrier won't the tenacity gives a huge difference? :/ Why are my questions about the champions being ignored always? g.g [/quote] For a tank, a mix of Tenacity and Dodge can be even more effective. For an anti-carry, dodge can be better DEPENDING on the team composition. First off, you don't need dodge boots - 8% dodge from runes and masteries already goes a long way. This is only if you're facing a high on-hit team like [[Udyr]], [[Gangplank]], [[Twisted Fate]], [[Kog'Maw]], [[Taric]] - All champions who has one reason or another to be getting in your face for auto-attacks. Tanks need a lot of freedom to be able to initiate, peel enemies, and cc targets while being expected to soak up all the enemy cc and output. For this, Tenacity is practically mandatory. But remember, Tenacity does not work on everything. Knock-backs, Knock-ups, Floor slows, and Suppressions are all not affected by tenacity. Perma-slow based CC such as [[Grog Soaked Blade]], [[Frost Shot]], or [[Frozen Mallet]] is also not very bothered by Tenacity because it can be re-applied so often. So, for an anti-carry, whose expected to come face-to-face with the enemy carry, dodge can be a more helpful stat. (i.e.:Until Dominion came out (lots more people using dodge), I didn't know [[Bio-Arcane Barrage]] could be dodged) This isn't absolute, but is more so true if you actually have a decent tank. A tank that effectively pulls the enemy's tank and squishies' attention will have you put in the position to be taking more auto-attacks from the enemy carry if not anyone else.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]^ Fairly accurate analysis. 8% can certainly be worth it as a stand alone. In some instances, dodge quints are also a good idea- inb4 Searz comes and says I'm bad for saying that. :P[/quote]