Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=Ixtellor](Another person mentioned they have 75% win rate on Janna in low ELO--- its because you are way better than your soft reset ELO would indicate. And basically you will just keep winning with whatever champ you pick because you are better than your rank.) My comments were directed at a low elo player not, someone who got put in low elo but will soon be out.[/quote]I've made it out of Silver exactly once then proceeded to drop out of Gold due to inactivity and not get back into it for the next two seasons, I'm not anything amazing when it comes to this game. The only thing I have is that I've been playing [[Janna]] for a long time since she was one of the champions I started playing back in season one.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Out Of Pancakes]My ADc couldn't dodge Blitz hooks for shit as Kallista. Thus, he asked me to stand in front of him at all time, so that I would get hooked instead of him, considering that was my job as a support (I was Thresh, ennemy ADC Lucian). I obviously said that this was his own business to dodge Blitz hooks and not my job to eat them, which he did not understand. Considering that he still got grabbed a lot of times and died all those said times, would it have been a good idea eating those hooks myself? Past a certain point, they were so ahead it was clearly out of the question but, before that, if your ADc is pretty terrible at dodging skillshots, and in the said lane matchup, would it be a thing to consider?[/quote] In general its not a bad idea to position yourself in front of your ADC or to zone so its much harder for Blitz to get a hook off (they often won't even go for the hook to begin with if you move to zone him). I try to do this a lot when I'm playing Trundle vs Thresh/Blitz because I know we win 2v2 when he wastes his hook on me. However, it's NOT a good idea if you lose 2v2 either way, because Thresh has no escapes and will die/burn flash if he gets hooked and you don't have enough damage to reply. At that point the lane is pretty lost though so you should hang back as much as possible and give up some cs to avoid dying. [quote=EricboyZ]Hey Guys, I ward enough i have the most wards of the game 9 of the 10 games, i also buy pinks frequently. But still i have trouble with my positioning as support like i get caught out a bit too mutch for my liking so do u guys have any tips for positioning? as tanky supports mostly in teamfights and in the botlane? and my 2nd question is the same as the one above which is Written by 'Out Of Pancakes"[quote]My ADc couldn't dodge Blitz hooks for shit. Considering that he still got grabbed a lot of times and died all those said times, would it have been a good idea eating those hooks myself? Past a certain point, they were so ahead it was clearly out of the question but, before that, if your ADc is pretty terrible at dodging skillshots, and in the said lane matchup, would it be a thing to consider?[/quote] Thanks in advance Guys <3[/quote] First, try look at your WPM (wards per minute) instead of rank. WPM is a much more reliable indicator of how well you ward, especially because low-elo people barely ward to begin with. I'd aim to have about 1 WPM and at least one pink per 10 minutes, but either way you should try to have one on the map 24/7. To the second part, it's important to consider why you died. Is it because you didn't watch the map? Is it because your wards were insufficient? Each scenario requires a different fix and again, there is no one rule I can give you to improve your positioning. In general, the key to good positioning (not overextending or not getting caught) is to constantly keep your flanks warded (not just in lane but also in midgame) and try to avoid extending past that line. Also, when going for deep wards or facechecks, constantly think how many people are missing on the map and expect them to be near you. General awareness is key to positioning, both in botlane and midgame. Sadly there is no simple trick to teach that skill, its a matter of mindset (the way you practice and focus on improvement) and simply lots of gameplay (trial and error)[/quote]

[quote=utopus]For positioning, another important element to pay attention to is looking at how a team fight is moving. It's very rare to have a team fight start and finish in the exact same place it started - especially if either team has AoE abilities (e.g. [[cannon barrage]], [[command: shockwave]]). If you can predict the direction the team fight is going in and keep an appropriate buffer range, you should notice some improvement in your team fighting[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=utopus]For positioning, another important element to pay attention to is looking at how a team fight is moving. It's very rare to have a team fight start and finish in the exact same place it started - especially if either team has AoE abilities (e.g. [[cannon barrage]], [[command: shockwave]]). If you can predict the direction the team fight is going in and keep an appropriate buffer range, you should notice some improvement in your team fighting[/quote] Yeah in general having awareness of what spells the enemy has available is pretty important as well in teamfights. That requires you to be able to remain calm and remain an overview of whatever is going on in a teamfight, i.e. if you know that shockwave is up you can't position near her ball at all, but when it's down its much safer (although still not risk-free).[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]Ix there are actually a lot of silver players on this site so a discussion isn't out of the question. [quote=Ixtellor] A bad Janna Shields your Xin. Will your bad team notice that? Almost certainly not. Scenarior 2 - still all bad. What is the worst a Leona can do with her ult? Waste it... land it on a bush where nobody is? Bait her team into a bad engage by initiating? What is the worst a Janna can do with her ult? Put a melee bruiser right on top of your own ADC. THAT IS MUCH WORSE. Ruin a Brand ult... think of all the ults a Janna can RUIN with her R. Help a fleeing person escape... but giving them that extra shove. [/quote] Holy shit this is some derpy logic. WHATS THE WORST THING A LEE SIN CAN DO? PUT A MELEE BRUISER ON TOP OF THE ADC DONT PLAY HIM IN LOW ELO. Also if this is the state of Silver I feel sorry for you because damn Janna is mediocre difficulty after a few games and you know what? EVERY nontanky support is either harder (Try playing Nami) or suffers from the same damn issue of dying easily. Come to think of it your problem is you can't dodge hooks. End of story.[/quote]

[quote=Ixtellor]V, I love Janna, I had more fun playing Janna than any other support when I tried to go support. But based on 1000+ games in silver league, I feel like I have a good idea of what champs work at that skill level. I also feel like I made the greatest plays of my life with Janna --- she is an amazing champ --- when played well and with a team that knows her abilities (See NOT SILVER LEAGUE). While still anecdotal --- I have a lot of experience in Low ELO and I was relaying that information to another low ELO player. You said the same thing again...if your good with her. But thats the thing about silver league nobody is good at anything, or they wouldn't be in silver league. And my advice is to pick champs that are more forgiving and easier to play as support. Tanks. Jimmy, Actually if you read the advice of every pro/coach they all say don't play Lee Sin in low ELO. Are they all wrong? If you can play Lee well you won't be in low ELO. (Popquiz: Guess who a bad Lee sin can kill easier Janna or Nautilus?) I don't disagree that Janna is easier than Nami, Sona, Soraka. But again... bad players and their limited skill sets are probably going to find it easier to react to a Sona ult than a Janna ult. "Oh shit she just stunned the F%&* out of them --- I should attack!" Remember that time you accidently stunned your own team with Sona ult? Me either. Remember that time you accidently let the enemy escape because you... stunned him as Sona? Me either. Not to take away from the Advice of Vynertje --- this topic is epic and they (he/she?) give amazing advice. I just happen to disagree with recommending a Diamond 1 support to silver league supports, for reasons stated. P.S. I can dodge hooks as well/or better than most gold V's. My weakness is not knowing what to do when ahead, poor CS as mid, how to win losing top lane without jungle support, bad decision making, how to react to poor decisions by team mates (need a new topic on that one)[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]Any support is going to take practice to use properly. Just because someone is in silver doesn't mean they can't learn to play [[Janna]]. If I was gonna pick a champion I'd be arguing more about [[Bard]], who can screw up a lot more things with poorly placed [[tempered fate]]s and [[magical journey]]s than [[Janna]] can with [[monsoon]]. If a [[Janna]] uses her ult only to disengage (which is what 90% of the [[Janna]] players I've seen in low Elo do with her), she's not using it to full potential but that's about it. They also sometimes pick [[Janna]] into things that make her laning really not fun, which can cause obvious tilting on occasion. Also, anyone can die a lot if their positioning is garbage. It's a bit easier to die as a less tanky support, but being tanky doesn't suddenly make you invincible when you're out of position. I've been playing full retard AP [[Janna]] and my average deaths per game is 1.8 because my positioning is decent enough to not get caught out often. Should I be able to get away with that? Nope, but they tend to not put any focus on me even when they have the opportunity. The main point is that I've been mostly in Silver for 4 of the 5 seasons I've played in (and Bronze in season 1) and [[Janna]] has never been something that is inherently bad in low Elo. Should people not be playing [[Blitzcrank]] in low Elo because hooking someone like [[Leona]] is basically "OMG FREE ENGAGE, TEAM"? That's something I've seen happen a lot more than people completely screwing up [[monsoon]], but people still play [[Blitzcrank]] in low Elo even though he's pretty much garbage.[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]Just because Janna has the potential to mess things up with her monsoon doesn't mean she's not strong in low elo rofl... especially since monsoon will be seen "helping the enemy" much less often than stuff like bad condemns or J4 ults imo[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999]I've been away from League for a while. I used to main support in Season 2, and last time I played ranked I ended in Plat 1 or 2. The meta has changed a lot since I last played. My main question is what kind of builds should I be looking at? I mainly like to play peeling and engage/disengage supports like [[Janna]], [[Lulu]], and [[Nami]]. They are generally less tanky, but items and masteries have changed so much, I'm not sure what direction to go. [[Ruby Sightstone]] is obvious, as are [[Boots of Mobility]]. I used to like going [[Ancient Coin]], but that's apparently not very viable. Between [[Talisman of Ascension]] and [[Frost Queen's Claim]], which one should I get? After that, where do I go? Do I opt for more "support" items, like [[Locket of the Iron Solari]] and [[Mikael's Crucible]], or do I go for some type of damage item for better shields/heals?[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]Don't upgrade into ruby sightstone until the end of the game[/quote]