All my posts are directed towards Janna support, I'm not saying that gold is better on supports in general only that they are imo a really good option on her since you don't need that extra hp to be fully effective in laning phase.
I would never go gold/10 on other supps :P
I would never go gold/10 on other supps :P
Ellodere
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Slappiz wrote:
All my posts are directed towards Janna support, I'm not saying that gold is better on supports in general only that they are imo a really good option on her since you don't need that extra hp to be fully effective in laning phase.
I would never go gold/10 on other supps :P
I would never go gold/10 on other supps :P
But health is still more effective on her! > 3 >
Slappiz wrote:
All my posts are directed towards Janna support, I'm not saying that gold is better on supports in general only that they are imo a really good option on her since you don't need that extra hp to be fully effective in laning phase.
I would never go gold/10 on other supps :P
I would never go gold/10 on other supps :P
I agree with this. On most supports I go hybrid pen marks and armor quints, but since Janna doesn't benefit as much from hybrid pen marks I swap the marks for armor which allowes me to go gp10 quints. I don't agree with gp10 seals but for quints its pretty good.
Also kids, go armor quints instead of health quints.
Expanding on above: I just don't need the extra defense on Janna because I got armor marks. The gold value of 75 hp (3x health quints) is only 150 gold so gp10 earns that back pretty quickly regardless. It just means a couple of free pink wards later into the game which IMO is worth it.
Ellodere
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Vynertje wrote:
Also kids, go armor quints instead of health quints.
Armor quints give ~13 armor. Combined with the 14 armor that you get from the usual 5x health seals and 4x armor seals plus the 9x armor marks, you will get a total of 27 armor. Now let's make some math, each point of armor gives an extra 1% to your health which we call effective hp.
Our starting armor on thresh is 16 and combined with our rune page that gives him an extra 27 armor, he will have a total of 43 armor which is 43% extra health in armor.
I don't really know the exact amount of health that thresh has, but let's say ~680. We know for a fact that 680 is a 100% in his case, we want to find out first what 1% of his health is by dividing 680 with 100, which is 6,8 hp.
Now we multiply it with 43.
The amount of effective hp we get from these runes is ~292, you are correct! It's double of what my runepage is, didn't know that. BUT, that's only for physical damage, which is where the flaw is in your setup.
Let's take that 1% of our thresh's health (6,8 hp) and find out how much MAGIC damage he would take from just having the standard 11 mr. The same thing with armor applies to mr aswell because 1 mr is 1% of a champion's current health, so we now multiply 6,8 with 11.
We get the result 74,8 hp. That's pretty bad to be honest in comparison to the big armor that you have, I find that setup you put up is lacking at balancing a good armor value with a good mr value (that's where the hp comes into play in my build!). Let's now compare your setup to mine where I have 110 hp which adds up on that value of 74 effective hp in magic resist and increases it to 184 hp!
The other 14 armor that I have in my build turns into 95,2 hp, which if you add the hp becomes a whooping 205 hp.
The amount of effective hp has now been split into a more balanced 184 extra hp against magic damage and 205 hp against physical.
But against a less mr focused botlane, yeah, I think your build setup would be awesome, but I'm talking about the more common composition of ap and ad in botlane.
totally off topic but just imagine all the math what we do here koreans do it just 2 sec before when they calculate if the trade would worth it or not :D
anyways I really appreciate all the effort you all put in it and I can see all of you agree on that gold yellows are useless so go and get quints but I would never give up my AP quints on her which means I am back where it does all started :D
anyways I really appreciate all the effort you all put in it and I can see all of you agree on that gold yellows are useless so go and get quints but I would never give up my AP quints on her which means I am back where it does all started :D
Ellodere
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Blian wrote:
totally off topic but just imagine all the math what we do here koreans do it just 2 sec before when they calculate if the trade would worth it or not :D
Koreans don't do it in 2 seconds I think, but they have it mapped out because they've done the calculations and some parts of the calculations in league will repeat themselves, so it's not TOO hard to learn all the math if you know what variables and what values you are working with.
I normally don't even do the math when I trade, but I am thinking of including it into my gameplay, just have to work around the whole brain training part of the whole thing.
Blian wrote:
anyways I really appreciate all the effort you all put in it and I can see all of you agree on that gold yellows are useless so go and get quints but I would never give up my AP quints on her which means I am back where it does all started :D
You are welcome! Gold seals are useless compared to other options, quints have their usage, and that's about it. I think everything has been explained thoroughly by both me and other people. Have a good day!
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That extra gold can be very important if you're planning to do some strategical warding early.
In many ways, that can be understandable and I actually would think of doing that if I did have 3 gold quints on my runes, but to be able to get out the most of your stats, the hp is more reliable. But no matter how much gold you get from playing using these gold quints and even if it's gold efficiency starts to kick in later, it's very negligible compared to the amount of gold you will get from the total amount of assists, objectives and clearing of wards. But you are onto something there.
I just wanted to explain why gold quints aren't worth as much as health quints and why having these health quints could potentially win you fights in the early game, which is HUGE considering that you and your adc should be rushing for level 2 where you will both engage on the enemy if they are too close. If there's like a
I know this because thresh was my support main.
Armor marks are pretty straightforward as you don't really have another choice. But probably I would trade in some mr blues for CDRs.
I guess we can agree it depends on your style. Some of us like to trade with Janna and others don't.
AP Quints for ap supports is a must in my opinion, HP quints are of course more efficient than gold ones, but AP ones are even more important than any of them combined. The standard setup I would go for ap supports would be scaling health seals, magic pen marks and of course the AP quints.
This runepage that I just specified is based around getting a lot of hp through scaling health seals so that it compensates for the lack of hp quints, and at one point the health seals will outscale the normal rune page that I have on supports with 110 hp and it will actually become double the amount at level 18.
There's one thing I really want to say though about the whole "Some of us like to trade with Janna and others don't". I can understand we all have our own playstyle, but we have to think deeper than that, what is the better style in a situation when comparing "Defensive" "Aggressive" and "Passive" with each other in terms of success? In my opinion, a janna should mainly save her shield for the adc when he either gets an auto attack off on a champion (the timing has to be right when the adc shoots off the autoattack and you know it's hitting the other two enemy laners) or when the enemy is attacking your adc. Those are the two primary situations you should focus on, but after that there's the trading with janna, you can use the kit that you have in a more aggressive way. One autoattack + W + Q and E IF you know your adc can do without it for the period of time where your shield is down, which is the very standard trading for janna.
There's only some options where the janna can trade and can't, if there's a low minion on your wave, then you by all means can go in on the enemy adc using your combo and try and distract him from the cs or delay his autoattack with your Q.
The more we start to delve into the strategy and tactics of playing janna, the more we can see that there is even more to her kit than just a straight up peeling machine, her kit can be used in so many countless ways and it's therefore very hard to really find every single possibility and usage of your kit in every situation that you will face.